Elementalist, Mesmer, and Revenants all needed to be nerfed they were the only classes being run at high levels of play with a few exceptions.
It was completely op and made rezzing and stomping trivial.
It was not a pleasant experience overall. It was filled with tons of exploits for starters. Also, I didn’t feel like the level of skill increased at all from amber through diamond where I finished. Probably because of the exploits and the fact that any moron could grind to at least ruby. The meta itself was grabage I participated in more timed out matches in 6 weeks then I did in two year before hand. I am hopeful though (silly me) that if they stick to there guns and implement the matchmaking changes as described which is being teamed with people your MMR level and facing people based on league placement only season 2 will be much better. I can hopefully feel like I am actually progressing while facing better competition along the way. Hopefully there will be no more so called “diamond” and “legendary” players pinging Chieften and Svanir at start or rushing the Lord in Foefire right at the start of a match.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Everything is on the mouse for me so no I never look at the keyboard.
Nice tears by you in team chat.
Could easily have relogged.
That would have gotten him dishonor though
No it wouldn’t have. If you log back into the match you don’t receive dishonour. Probably because there is a grace period or something. I’ve done it many times.
It’s still bad and not obvious because they actually threaten you when try to do it. Yes, you can log out with no dishonor but before you do it you still get a note threatening you with dishonor lol. Stop defending A-net for there bullkitten.
A lot of people have peaked at diamond or low legendary and are refusing to play much until next pvp season when hopefully things will be more balanced and the matchmaking better.
The old system was just as bad and the main reason why leagues failed.
Because DH is a damage oriented elite spec, elite specs are stronger than base classes. Why does druid have more sustain than a bunker guard. Same answer. Please stop putting stuff like this on the forums when these questions were answered 3 months ago
You are a good little A-net lackey. And elite specs being stronger then base classes they might be currently but A-net has never stated that was the goal to make them stronger then base trait lines. Also, the reason why we are seeing tons of nerfs coming to elites soon.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Complaining about things you don’t like in a game you paid good money for is toxicity? Ok chief. Although I’m not totally sure your not a bored Troll. Stick your civility lectures where the sun don’t shine. That toxic enough for you? As for it being A-net’s game if they take that line of thinking its the fastest ticket they could take to losing there player base and losing out on a lot of money. A smart company listens to criticisms from there players and gives them what they want within reason. I would never expect a doormat like yourself to understand that I know you are perfectly happy with whatever scraps are thrown your way.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
People have been complaining about this forever. The matchmaking uses an average of MMR to make teams so you can and will be matched with widely varying levels of skill players if you solo. They are fixing it next season by having your teammates only be players that are very close to your MMR level. It is very frustrating to have to deal with people that don’t know the basics all the time.
I use contemplation of Purity, Save Yourselves, and Stand Your Ground with a variation of the Dragon Hunter Bunker build. I also use the awful trait Force of Will because your right 12k health is awful. Yes, it doesn’t have the team condition cleansing of other builds but one full condition wipe for everyone every 60 seconds is still decent. To me even weakened stability is a must have. As for heal trap versus shelter it probably revolves around the level of play you are generally in. I see myself as decent as best and usually the people I fight are around that level so I take the heal trap due to its low cooldown, the daze and blind it drops, and the large group healing it can do. Others are probably better at timing shelter for maximum spike dps blocking then I am.
This is all the fault of MMR averaging matchmaking which thinks higher MMR players can carry a couple of noobs versus a full group of more average MMR players. Basically as long as both teams have roughly equivalent average overall MMRs everything is fine and dandy. It’s complete rubbish and always has been. The new league matchmaking should fix this if its works the way they claim it will.
I don’t care really either way I always saw soldier’s as a meh amulet personally. But with some classes having traits that give free crit chance and things like that I could see it potentially as a bad thing to have maximum power and like 50%-70% crit chance without having any precision stat (over very little) and also having high toughness and vitality. I think they want to make it so your long term sustain is proportionate to the damage you do. We are trying to get away from do it alls. Because if you can have pretty good damage and pretty good sustain why would you play anything else then those kinds of builds?
(edited by brannigan.9831)
They did…the preview is always the definitive … business as usual…maybe this time however ????
But I would not be too optimistic if I were you…
Thats not true at all. They aren’t releasing patch notes because its not definitive.
It is very bad that triple class stacking is allowed longer queues or not its stupid and no most people won’t change if you ask them and even if they could most would likely be worst on there secondary class as you average player in this game doesn’t have 1,000 years to play and get really poficieint at multiple classes. Up to two I could live with but three class stacking no it shouldn’t be allowed imo. As a matter of fact three years in we should probably have a system where the game can look at who is in the matcher and apportion them to team by role/archetype based on traits and jewelry. All of this is some kind of super science to a-net though. The lower the bar you have for a-net the worst you are going to receive in return.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
I have no problems with Helseth’s style just in this case he is just trying to protect his favored class from well deserved nerfs. And yes I believe in over-nerfing to under nerfing there are so many problematic aspects to mesmer right now they need to be whacked.
Every new “major” balance patch, 2 classes will die. You heard it here first.
I would perfer that to the current state of affairs where 3-4 classes reign supreme for 6 months at a time or longer (elementalist) and everyone else is screwed. It would be much better for it to rotate although obviously everyone being fairly effective all the time would be much perferred but seems to be beyond a-nets ability.
We don’t even know how the changes will play out so its stupid to say x is op before we have even seen it in practice. We already know what is god mode right now though and its getting nerfed and rightfully so much to the sorrow of the op.
They already explained why it is like this in a dev post. There was a bug causing people to get bogus dishonor somehow connected to forfeit’s (losses where you don’t lose pips because of disconnects out of group) so they disabled it. It is not intended to be like this nor are they trying to stop exploits. It sucks but there it is. Once they fix the bug they will enable no pip loss on disconnects out of groups again.
Necro’s don’t hold up to focus fire anywhere near well enough to function as a bunker.
Soldier necro does, which is basically the Mercenary’s necro of tomorrow.
No it does not. I’ve played it plenty. And this meta is already bunker.
Well, reapers will be able to just press 1 a bunch of times to convert resistance to chill and proceed to sit on mallyx’s face, so yeah.
The last time I checked there were more then 5 classes what if you don’t have a reaper? Thats the problem with hard counters there bad. We need a game where you can run mostly whatever you want class wise and have a chance at countering just about anything. Otherwise the game is a gigantic failure. This game has always been a joke diversity wise when it comes to builds. You can’t have it where any class is needed over any other or we might as well just cut the number of classes available to pvp with to five.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Pre-hot meta a good glass cannon could always wear down and kill a cleric bunker. The old meta guardian bunker was killable by 1 person over a period of time and much faster by 2 good players. We need to get back into a meta where there are more specialized roles not all these I can do almost everything builds. How do you explain these pro league teams consisting of 2 or 3 classes. Anything is perfereable to that as far as I am concerned.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
I don’t know why anybody bothered watching the pro league after week 1. This meta is an embarrasment and they know it because I don’t think they have ever proposed so many nerfs at one time before. All the flack they got for the awful boring pro league games is the main driver for the changes.
For those who are new to the game you might not remember the early metas which were based around specific team roles, team work, clever rotations and build diversity.
Whilst it is true that elementalist was too strong for a long time, the meta in general was pretty fun for everybody.
Firstly everybody could play the role they wanted. Support focussed players could play a bunker guardian. Dps players could play a thief or a mesmer and do well. People who enjoyed back point 1v1s could play rangers and eles. Condition players could play engineer and necro.
It took skill and team work which was fun. Teams had to be smart with how they rotated their bunker guardian. Playing a 3 cap was difficult because of these defined roles. Team fights were fun as it was less about self reliant classes and more about the sum of the parts.
Any good meta should have defined roles like bunker guardian. Celestial instantly ruined everything. Now i single engi and ele specs you had healing support, condi removal, damage, condi damage, tanking ability and downed state cleave. This made many other roles obsolete as you could just bring a hybrid in place of anything else.
It also took skill out of the game. It is the easiest thing in the world to kite round with a high healing celestial class and not die. The maths is in their favour. No longer did teams need to worry about rotating the bunker guardian or playing smart so they are close enough to this support class for buffs and condi removal. It became so everyone was self sufficient and capable of everything.
All this is because of amulets which provide both offence and defence. Celestial bei g the ultimate.
Every healthy meta should allow for all types of builds. If a meta doesnt have a bunker guardian in it then it is not healthy. The basic rule of balance is that no one build should be able to do everything. Removing celestial and soliders will instantly make this game fun again. Now if something has huge damage it will be kilkable.
I am shocked anet made this change as it is amazing. I personally know of quite a few players planning to return to the game with a competitive mindset as a result
I agree in general but bunker guardians should not be made necessary (no single class should be necessary) but the idea of the bunker guardian is a good one mainly a totally team focused build that does very little damge on its own. Problem with this meta is do it all classes. If you want to be a strong point holder you should expect to do almost zero damage.
I’ll take a burst meta over a bunker meta any day.
sure, if the burst role is able to be filled other than thieves, why not. But we all know the history from before…
Medi Guardian was the counter at the time. You can’t just say this or that the meta needs to be changed its garbage. There are like four classes that can compete and really its like three: chrono, tempest, and herald. This current meta is indefensible on any level.
Its official, game is being balanced for amber division skill level and QQ on forums.
Don’t expect the class to be viable before summer 2016. enjoy
I love arguments like this. If its only good against Ambers and you are a pro why do you care so much then if traps are being nerfed. It doesn’t make sense to argue like that because obviously you think its pretty strong and don’t want it weakened. These are fair nerfs. The interrupts were too long and needed to be made blockable. Lots of classes are getting nerfed much more hopefully after the dust settle DH will still viable and also maybe old bunker guardian, medi guard, and burn guard a couple of those can come back in to the meta. But to say something is only good against bad people yet cry to see it untouched that’s a stoopid transparent argument.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
its bad because there are actual bads built around having this pet instagib someone. It only works against other bads but its annoying because of the brilliant match making to get one of these losers on your team. I was watching this one ranger basically he would either kill some other idiot in five seconds or die in five seconds.
Celestial is a garbage amulet that is way over-represented in the current meta. Thats all we really need to know that it’s op the sheer number of meta builds that use it. If the classes that used this need some kind of compensation or other amulet fine. But this thing needs to go. Unfortunately a certain group of “pro” players that run a comp that uses this amulet on just about everyone is almost certainly running a propaganda campaign behind the scenes to save it. If A-net sticks to there guns it will change my opinion of theres a lot for the better.
See my response to Helseth’s complaints. So what. Plenty of classes have been non meta for sooper long periods of time. Eles have been meta more then any other class in the game. This is all speculative anyway.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Don’t care really. Thats generally my perferred method of balancing slaughtering an op class/build and driving off the FOTM trash for a development cycle or so and let some other classes/builds see the light of day. Its almost impossible to change classes/builds from OP to just run of the mills strong in one iteration. Smash away i say. Mesmer players are no more special then anyone else. Lots of classes/builds have been “unplayable” for extremely long periods of time. No one cares until it’s there perferred class that might be toward the bottom for a bit.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Not sure whether this guy is serious or an awful troll. Never saw a post from him before but then comes on to whine about Mesmer nerfs a class that the vast majority of people agree need adjustments and then is going to posts 1,000 times about one of the weakest classes in the game being op.
The game should always be mostly balanced around the average player especially if what they want is a popular game that makes lot of money. Making the most people happy is generally the fastest way to success. Pandering to elites is the fastest way to general disharmony among the player base. DH and Druids are kind of outliers anyway most of the things that are op in Pro are op at op at lower levels of play. All I see are Heralds, Scrappers. Elementalists, and Mesmers in matches. DH and Druids are much less represented then those classes across the board. Most of the time things are op across the board.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Not only do I not agree, I suspect that you are trolling. Have you actually played Mesmer long enough to be familiar with it?
Are you serious? You do know that A-net has layers of data to make this decision on? How do you explain the mass amounts of people playing mesmers? We don’t even have to go into the particulars. Unless you doubt reality the amount of people playing the class should tell you its a problem. We don’t need get into some kind of point by point debate on everything. People flock to the strongest builds. Chrono is too powerful. Who is the Troll exactly? Do you actually care about this game?
So what of you lose a pip because of a DC ? Its not like it happens all the time. And a system that would prevent pip loss in case of DC would ne so easily exploitable that you’d all be here crying because of a bad system that’s getting exploited.
No team based competitive game deal with DC, and it’s for a reason.
Plus, you have more chance to have a dc in opponent team than in yours, so overall you’re winning from it.
You didn’t read the post obviously. We aren’t talking about full teams. We are talking about being punished as a solo player or even as a partial group memeber when someone not grouped with you disconnects. That is how it worked until recently. Apparently there was bogus dishonor being given out so they disabled it. I would imagine it will be coming back, once they fix the dishonor bug, that you will not be punished with disconnects out of group. You can now go back under the rock you crawled out from under or back to sleep. Seriously read the full post next time and get out of your fantasy world where everyone runs in full five man groups when in actuality thats a small portion of the player base. People would not be able to coordinate with people out of group to disconnect to avoid pip loss. I mean we got the answer from the dev right in this post about what happened. Take five seconds and read it.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
I do and I do just fine. This is at low and mid levels of play though sadly it wouldn’t work in ESL but against average players its mostly fine. Heal trap is very powerful as is shield of courage.
This is because forfeits (not losing points with teammate disconnects) are effectively disabled while we fix the dishonor false positives that were happening much more frequently than actual disconnects.
You can’t be serious. People are losing a lot of pips from this. And it’s not going to necessarily even out over time since the season doesn’t last that long. A lot of people aren’t going to necessarily get a bunch of free wins to even it out. I think it would actually be better that some people get the false dishonor.
You think that ambers/sapphires being matched against legend because that legend grouped with 2 ambers (who weren’t real ambers skillwise to begin with…) would result in increase of popularity? Dream on…
Yes since everyone who queues with someone from another div is an abuser right?
This patch stops abuse but makes the game unplayable unless your entire team is the same in terms of skilllevel and div. AND ppl will get crazy number of pips vs mediocre teams since they have 1 good player.
Do you think its fair u get the same number of pips vs the abjured as u get vs a random mixed div guild team with players varrying from legend to amber?
You need to get out of this fantasy world where experienced pvp’ers group all the time with there buddies who are complete noobs to the game in ranked pvp. I am not saying it doesn’t happen but its extremely rare. The fix for smurfing was needed and if it effects a small amount of the population negatively so be it. Yes in fact most of the extreme high low group pairings were smurfing. YES IT WAS.
(edited by brannigan.9831)
Can we stop these hidden self back patting posts about hitting legendary this sooper hard way or that (hello eleeto). Most people don’t care. Can’t say all because there is always some idiot that will claim they do.
I like how these threads get overwhelmed by players of current meta builds demanding fixes for there classes which haven’t even been nerfed yet meanwhile warriors, thieves, and guardians have been hurting for months. God help you may not be top of the heap for a short time.
Guardians, Warriors, and Thieves would like to say welcome to the club.
Don’t see you crying for Warrior, Thief, and Guardian none who had a role in the current meta at top levels of play. And really to a smaller degree Ranger and Necro didn’t either. Don’t be so dramatic.
yes it is op just like tons of other garbage currently.
They won’t say. I believe they would tell you that somehow people could abuse this with complete strangers to avoid pip loss which is ridiculous. They need to bring back just pip loss for the people grouped with the person that disconnected because that could actually happen someone disconnecting to avoid pips losses for his friends.
Configs have been updated. There should be less of a spread in ladder positions now.
Part of the reason this is happening is because this season matches on both MMR and ladder position. Someone could have a lower ladder position, but have a very high MMR. Since they have to sit around a long time waiting for close MMR players, their ladder search range is also increasing at the same time.
1. You need to test things better
2. The pip system needs to be adjusted so players don’t lose a pip when facing a premade of 4-5 players.Also what about losing pips when a team member dcs has this been fixed? Considering you’re making other changes I would hope that was a priority.
1) LOL, welcome to real software development. You probably never compliment how well everything else in this game works or acknowledge how much it is tested. When everything works, no one even notices. As soon as something breaks or doesn’t work as well as expected people rage real hard.
2) NO!!!, the fair matches can very easily happen between a premade and 5 randos. Often the people complaining the most about premades are the same people that give up as soon as they see they are fighting a premade.
Last point is valid.
We pay them money we expect things to work and when they do we do why would we go out of the way to praise them? Conversely when things don’t work we complain. Becuase that’s what sensible people do when they pay for something and it doesn’t work. I don’t work in the software industry I don’t care what challenges they face. I wan’t what I paid for. I am a paying customer.
what does it mean to play in a “pro” environment? you pick 5 good players for a team, you decide on who is playing what and then you play a comp that is strong. if a build becomes unviable you change the build, if a class becomes unviable you change to another one. you keep players but you adapt. that’s what it means to be pro. having 8000 games on 1 prof and 300 on all others is a thing of the past.
If you were e-leeto you would understand apparently. See what I did there?
First of all if you are one of those who constantly whine about balance and nothing else matters then this topic aint for you.
1st WTS was won by 2x cele burn engi.
2nd WTS was won by hammer guard.
3rd WTS was won by 2x DD ele.Winners are winners and loosers shouldve have taken the risk and adapted their comps to latest meta etc. not trying to say here that they should have not won BUT how can these tourneys be most competetive if teams qualify with one thing and then because of anet their comp is not as strong anymore.
So now this trash meta we have for while, ive been defending no balance on my stream all the time because anet said long time ago that there will be no big balance changes until pro league is over which was more than fine with me cause i wanted to see one time tourney were people play what they been playing and there isnt some cheese that others teams havent discovered.
Whole PVP community had to live with this “balance” for months just so we get most competetive tourney.Now pro players…. People didnt got invited, people got kicked, they lost time, they lost money, some of you might think this is joke but multiple players got fkd over really hard by this meta because their teams wanted to stay competetive.
Aaaaaand at the end of the day:
“Pro League S1 Finals will use the Winter 2016 balance update, not the current.”Who knows how balance will be, who knows what classes will be viable, maybe if pro league would happen with next patch we would see completely different teams or in some cases same teams with different players.
So why spit in face of normal PVPers and pro league players? Well money ofc.
Having pro league finals with current meta is just bad marketing. The finals will be seen by people who dont play gw2 and of course anet dont want them to see every team playing 2x mes 2x rev comp.
Dude you are legend. In your own mind.
The middle of a season is not the time to put fixes in like this.
No nothing wrong with Mesmers dawg. The fact that there seems to be two them is half the matches I’m in has nothing to do with them being strong. As a matter of fact there is nothing wrong with any class. L2play broskies. /sarcasm.
I don’t think it is a good idea to implement too many changes at once, you just end up overshooting in a way or another and get huge swings in balance. Just look what happened when Anet wanted to get rid of zerk meta, we are now in a complete opposite end of things.
Ppl demand big changes immediately but it is verry hard for Anet to strike balance at the first try. In PvP everything is connected to everything, if you change too much and nerf one class that pushed other off meta and buff the other one, the other one rises to the top and pushes someone else off meta.
Some argue that it is only fair for those op classes to be trash for once and the once underpowered classes to have their payback but that is just childish.
I do agree that the current situation needs some serious work but I would rather have more gradual changes and eventually reach balance. I made a fancy graph to better illustrate this:
Are you serious all they do is gradual changes that’s why things stay over-powered for so long. As for one class being pushed off and another taking its place that is the way it’s going to be most of the time. There is no such thing as perfect balance. That doesn’t mean you don’t try to fix what’s wrong.