Guild Wars 2

If p/p had boon hate it would be very good, but the issue would be the lack of mobility, which would be a huge hit to the thief. Its going to require some creative brainstorming from the devs to fix this.

the ironic thing about the haste nerf is that it killed the only viable alternatives to d/p build the thief had.

If your taking damage, and nothing is hitting you, its retialation. Also I can usually observe this boon fairly quickly.

I’d like to add to this conversation. This is a point I agree with 100%.

The main argument the dev’s have offered for not doing this is a consistent player experience. They want players to be able to make the switch from pve to pvp as seamlessly as possible. Ok I get that but I think there is another point to consider.

What needs to be consistent is the MECHANIC of the ability, not its power. A player going from pve to pvp and noticing different heal values on his tooltip wont be confused by this. In fact, its likely to occur even if the skills mirror each other exactly, due to the fact that pve itemization is likely to be different than pvp.

Believe me , nobody will be confused by how the same mechanic works, if it produces a different value. That’s easy to learn, and its a bullet arenanet have already bitten on several skill, like clusterbomb and the ele heal.

You can tweak the numbers without confusing players, its only the mechanic that might be confusing.

Phantasm mesmers can be really good at 1on1. But they are kinda trash in tournies.

It would probably be inferior as most hgh focused around conditions and that lacks condition diversity.

however, HGH power is somewhat decent, I suppose you could build for that and FT. YOud have to change from being a team fight to side node holder though. I really liked FT and I have to admit I could not find a way to make it as useful as gren kit.

Yap here are some tips.
First off, rangers are pretty decent vs engies. They are fairly evenly matched. mesmers can struggle unless u get the drop on them. Necros who have corrupt boon are actually quite good against engies as they spam boons on themselves with the might stacking and fury.

1. Try to bait out there elixir s cooldown. (mini me form).
2. Either stand far away from them (800 + range-assuming you have something good to hit them with. Or get right up to them if your about to burst. here is why. At super close range( like standing on top of them) blowtorch will miss. It also has a 600 range so being far away and it cant hit you also. Also grens spread out at range and do less damage. BEing close makes you more vunerable to grenades though. IF he has pistol out though u can go right into him and stay on top of him as much as possible.
The mid range fight is the butter zone for the HGH engy.

The super most important thing to dodge is pistol #3 static shot, its the purple lighting looking shot. Its puts confusion and blindness both on the engies opponent.

Hgh engies don’t have great burst (though high steady damage) and they are not fast. IF the fight isn’t going your way early, disengage and get out , a lot of times an engy wont be able to keep up. Don’t run away in a straight line where they can gren you easy.

IN team fights, they are super vunerable to burst. If you catch em with elixir S on cd they are in trouble especially if you can immobilize them.

Pressure them, with the possible exception of necro an engy should be the first target in a TF.

HGH players who are good are very tough to beat, but any mistake and they lose, so pressuring them is the way to go. In a 1vs1 vs hgh, if they do everything right they win, even if u do as well. IF they make any mistake they probably lose, even if you make a mistake as well. so pressure , pressure, pressure.

$$

15 characters.

Dodge is a universal immunity, therefore im ok with it allowing capping. Some people have more dodges ofc like rangers and gaurdians. but its overall ok, this isn’t really a necessary change. Whereas stealth, mistform where.

Ironically, if you occasionally premade, and therefore win at a high clip for a while, it gets even WORSE for you when you solo Q. YOu will be grouped with lower ranked people and net mmr against decently talented teams. And im sorry, you cant carry 4 bads against 5 medium skilled players, you cant be everywhere at once.

Its incredibly hard to have much over a 500 record solo Quing. its much easier if u play ele or bunker guardian, bc u can kinda carry w those. Not that other clases are not good. but a ele roamer or quality bunker makes a huge difference in solo Q.

zone.1073:

Vicarious.3047:

zone.1073:

Other than that, warriors are completely A-OK at the moment.

So basically other then everything important for an sPvP warrior they’re fine?

Gotcha lol

Well yes, but remember that Warriors are godly essential in PvE because they don’t insta-die in PvE. When they can stay alive, they can offer so much to the team. So, the class’s potential is there. Just needs a few tweaks in PvP and Warriors are good to go. The arms and legs are in good condition; it’s just the cartilage in the elbow and kneecap joints that need some fixing up.

They really need to start splitting abilities more between pve/pvp, because if this is the primary issue its really holding up the game.

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Vicarious.3047:

Geff.1930:

5. Ele (They are balanced. Bunkers do well almost everyone runs condition damage spec now)

Just because you said that I have to now disagree with everything else you said, whether I had originally agreed with it or not….. lol

Unless you’re playing an April Fool’s joke on us, then I commend you!

he admits hes a casual at least. The poor guy thinks mesmers are the strongest class.
people who don’t do premades vs premades , don’t understand.

You think all people who joined this thread are tPvPers? I should start asking for your rank and videos of your latest matches, win/loss ratio and number of tournaments played…I’m sure that with a ladder system, 3/4 of the answers here would be automatically invalidated .

-edit- half of your posts have been set to belittle anyone who would dare to think that mesmers are OP, you speak as a self-appointed dunno what either, it’s like your word counts more than anything else and who disagree with you is a fool or a brainless"noob"

I think theres a big difference between how casuals view the game and how higher end players tend to. its born out statistically. Im not trying to belittle people, but YES, casuals opinions SHOULD count for less. In the same way experts on anything tend to know more about something than people with a casual interest.

It isn’t meant to be condescending. its just, if someone thinks mesmers are the strongest class in the game, they are simply matter of factly wrong. If these guys had to go up against the few remaining top teams/top players who group together they would see this very quickly. Theres controversy, I’m not saying everything is universally agreed on among good players, I’m saying that casual players lack the relevant experience for an accurate summation , generally. Of course some casuals have great insight into the game, and some top players are idiots. But on average top players KNOW more about the game. And like people who KNOW more about something, they tend to summarize it more accurately.

True, nobody knows who ‘the best’ is. But people do know who some of the top thiefs definitely are.

Vicarious.3047:

Geff.1930:

5. Ele (They are balanced. Bunkers do well almost everyone runs condition damage spec now)

Just because you said that I have to now disagree with everything else you said, whether I had originally agreed with it or not….. lol

Unless you’re playing an April Fool’s joke on us, then I commend you!

he admits hes a casual at least. The poor guy thinks mesmers are the strongest class.
people who don’t do premades vs premades , don’t understand.

Lots of people put thief/Mesmer near the top. Not a chance. Thief is definitely in the lower half, and Mesmer, middleish of the pack. Rating Mesmer higher than guardian. Just wow.

People should post whether they hotjoin, do tournies, and if tournies ever do premades. I can’t imagine people who premade tournies think guardians are bad.

Jelle.2807:

I was under the impression matchmaking is based on (currently hidden) rating, not ranking.
That does not excuse 4v5 or other such scenarios ofcourse.

Correct. Rank has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with MMR. However, it can still b an issue. Theres a huge difference between a rank 5 who has X mmr, because he got good teammates his first few matchs, and a rank 40 with the same X.

When those 5’s end up a few of them on same team, vs those 40’s few on same team, even with same MMR, the tendency is for the really low ranked players to get whallopped.

It has little correlation with contribution. In a large sample size it kinda means something on roamer classes, but nearly nothing on a bunker.

The bulk of glory should be handed out for your team winning. That is the most accurate way to incentivez people to behave correctly.

mbh.8301:

I don’t think that 4 players should be able to ruin everything for the other one.
If he doesn’t want to pvp then he has no obligation to you or the community to stay in the match.

Don’t q if u don’t want to pvp. By quitting your making a bad match even worse for 4 other people. Nobody is saying you cant quit, we are saying some sort of in game penalty should exist. Like it does in pretty much every other successful pvp game. League etc.

Once again rank has nothing to do with MMR.
BUT, there is some serious issue with the matchups . Because r ank 10 who wins a few is going to be way worse than a rank40 who losses a lot. On average.
So they may have similar mmr, but they are not similar.

Guardians are one of the best classes in the game, but tend to play heavy survivability for the purpose of holding points.
A lot of classes are split between ranged and melee, such as the Mesmer.
The warrior is a class that really struggles in spvp atm, so I would be careful with that class.

I think the need for a solo/duo Q, vs a premade Q is more pressing than they know.

I find it frustrating as well. The bulk of my matchs I solo Q. Impossible to have a great w/l record.

Rank has NOTHING to do with MMR.
But that doesn’t mean a rank 10 who ques up and wins 2 matchs, then goes in against rank 50s who solo Q a lot and therefore don’t have a great w/l record is in any way fair.

I just had a 4vs5. two teammates below rank 10. Vs a rank 40+ premade all on voice together. lost 500 to 9.
yap -_-

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

What should be considered OP then? The healing burst of eles who use cleric amulet?

Maybe you can tell me what a profession speccing in having 13k HP should have then, superior damage? superior control? something else?

Should we remove the healing from eles or toning it down? If that’s the case should we increase the profession base HP by 5k+?

Ele’s are midly OP. An equally skilled ele will beat a Mesmer 1on1. has more mobility. Great disengage, and sustain. You see all the top players( those that bother to stream) complain about ele’s. And when the ladder comes out you will see groups with eles near the top. So , yes, eles are stronger than mesmers.

Also I win 90% of my 1vs1 w mesmers, I play engy. And I don’t hotjoin.
Caveat, referring to Mesmer meta specs. You get hotjoin mesmers who think they are great because they are good at 1on1 with there phantasm spec. Those guys would be useless in premade tourney play. Im referring to the mesmers meta viability in 1on1. Not the classes ability to custom build for 1on1.

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

Mesmers are 2nd class bunkers compared to ele and guardians has these two got access to strong self-healing…but you trying to say that mesmers are a weak class…is simply ludicrous

I never said they are a weak class, I said they are not remotely Op.

A group fight against 3 mesmers? If you mean 1vs 3 then doesn’t matter what your fighting youll lose. If you mean 3 mesmers in tourney as part of a premade team, that team will get smashed by other premade of remotely equivelant skilled players. that’s why NO TEAMS BRING 3 MESMERS.

It is true that there is a huge gap in the feedback they receive between how casuals perceive balance and how more hardcore players perceive balance.

yes, eles seem to have an issue. In that the most powerful build in the game is an ele build, but they might really struggle with survavibiilty outside of that spec.

You should also specify if your Na/Eu.

50% is fine, but reduce the debuffs.

Time warp reduce cD to 190 seconds from 210.
Frenzy, 25% extra damage taken not 50%.

etc. etc.

hotjoins? Mesmers aren’t exactly good 1vs1 , they are ok.

I think people find them frustrating to fight, but a good ele should win 9 out 10 times 1vs1 a Mesmer.

aaron.7850:

mesmers are only decent in 1v1, but in team fights an elementalist is pretty much god-mode while the mesmer can easily be shutdown

In fact, vs really good players mesmers are fairly middle of the pack 1vs1.

First, they tend to bring 2 or 3 utilities that are team oriented. Illusion of life, portal,timewarp.

SEcond. Good players KNOW the Mesmer mechanics, and how to avoid shatters, and find the real Mesmer quickly. I win the vast majority of my 1on1s vs mesmers on my engy.

Mesmers best feature is being a burst role for putting down ele’s or guardians in team fights, partially bc of boon strip.

Ive recently seen immobilize warriors being used to some good effect.

Ostricheggs.3742:

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Rangers have definitely been hit hard by the quickness nerf. Im surprised more people don’t see it. They went from probably third best class to , middle of the pack. Now compared to warriors they are dandy, but rangers took a big hit.

YOu can even earn points on the scoreboard for doing bad things. Like 2 people capping homepoint when nobodys around. Both of you wil earn points, but its a poor utilization of resources as 1 of u should be helping somewhere else.
Scoreboard doesn’t accurately represent contribution , even a little bit.

Geff.1930:

Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:

1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.

Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.

If you play in premade vs premade games , with rank 40+ teams who have thousands of tournies under there belt, you begin to see why eles are OP. They are probably not the most deadly thing people fight in hotjoin. But your going to see a TON of eles on the top of that ladder, much more so than mesmers.

I saw a team running an immobilize warrior whos job was to set up kills for the teams Mesmer and gren engy. (grens are easy to do a lot more damage vs a stationary target).

I feel ranger has really fallen in the meta lately. It used to be ele,guardian, ranger, pretty clearly. Now that’s not clear at all. It seems ele guardian at top. Then ranger, necro, Mesmer, engy in the middle of the pack with thief peeking in, and warrior no where to be seen.

Most teams run home node defender, usually Mesmer or ranger. A power dps, a condition dps, a bunker, then X and ele.

Eles are nearly universal, you will often see to, and other than the main bunker you can essentially replace anything with an ele.

Drysdale.3826:

Yeah I want to avoid Theif, no offense to the thieves but, that’s a face roll class. I never get statisfaction out of playing an OP class that 80% the server plays.

Thief is not OP. They make up a high percentage of hotjoins. But not in the tourney scene they are probably proportionally represented. The higher you go the less of them you see. At any rate they are certainly NOT op.

I’m afraid this wont really fix the problem. People don’t learn how to play the game, and especially don’t learn the meta, or class roles, by doing hotjoin.

Idk the relative nerf to power dps might make condition dealers like engie and necros more common, and they can give eles trouble.

Hence why a true solo Q would alievate a lot of these problems.

I doubt it. And guild vs guild is meaningless, all a guild is , is random people who play together, all a team is, is random people who play together. Its all in your head. content wise guild vs guild/team vs team is the exact same.

more people in solo q is a good thing, a certain percentage of them will stick around and pvp.
Making a true solo/duo Q vs team q would alievate a lot of these problems.

1vs1 with survivability? Then its elementalist you want.

If for some reason u don’t want that, engy is a decent profession but has a high skill curve, ull struggle unless your a good player.

Warrior should probably be avoided till anet gives them some love, they are in a very dark spot right now in terms of spvp.

I recommend to thiefs to switch to caeds build. even prior to the quickness nerf he did not use quickness. As of right now, w the nerf to caltrops and pistol whip requiring haste that spec of d/p backstab has become the defacto thief build.

Its completely viable and good. The issue with thiefs now is they have even LESS build variety. But they still have one good build.

Haste nerf was a GOOD thing. The issue people have is with the disparate impact that said haste nerf has had. Namely to the warrior- a class that was struggling already.

Patch had no real meta impact. Only thing I see less of is warriors.

The extremes of this list are the most informative.
Nearly everyone agrees ele’s are top, and warriors are bottom. I know several people who have outright quit warrior with recent changes.