Guild Wars 2

Krosslite.1950:

docMed.7692:

Krosslite.1950:

docMed.7692:

Ordika.9513:

docMed.7692:

Krosslite.1950:

per Arenanet:

“Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, “because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr.” Instead, players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/

There is your Raiding

Are you implying that I have not experienced and/or given open-world content a chance? I participate in all aspects of the game, including these events (still do!). Yes, some are kind of fun with a small group, like grenth or the chain to take Arah, etc. Nonetheless, the rewards, scaling, difficulty level are all extremely lack luster. They do not support tight-knit groups of your guildies coming together to work on something. Open-world content will never be as challenging as structured-instanced balanced content. Scaling will never be able to properly work for a casual and hardcore player attempting the same content at the same time. Again - where is the challenge in PvE? I’ve participated in everything this game has to offer; there is no PvE challenge.

I think he is implying that what you want, the game designers already took into account, and made their version of it.

I don’t think so; He’s quoting an article pre-GW2 launch, which ArenaNet had no plans for Guild Missions at the time.

Yes I am.

So per this article and your statement. Your guild went passed the temples with a core guild group tell the zone what to hold so you can cause a certain web of events to take place?

If so then you have done all the content.

If not. no you haven’t and need to do so before you can make the statement you made. since it is incorrect

Huh?

please refer to edited post then respond with better then
"Huh?" which makes you look bad

(dang cellphones)
edit: especially since most of your logic you use is that of someone who is not fully informed of the content of this game

There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains.

again quoting the article mentioned earlier

I did miss your edited post and also have difficulties following some of your broken grammar. I’ve been friendly this entire time, I’m sorry you have a different viewpoint than me on the current state of the game, but there’s no need to get upset over it and result to insults.

My original post refers to 2000 hours of play and my heavy involvement in PvX (i.e. all aspects of the game). I have participated in many of the open-world events, which my subsequent posts have referenced and pointed out to. I will continue to reply with "Huh?" as I see fit, mostly when I do not understand something.

But if you believe I do not have enough experience to comment on open-world PvE events then I would say you’re incorrect, but that’s just my opinion. If I need to do 100% of the PvE DE’s to actually comment on it, well then you’re probably speaking to only 1-2% of the population in this game, if that, which I also believe is a bit outlandish. In summation, I have experienced a vast majority of open-world PvE DE’s and would consider myself versed enough. This isn’t rocket science we’re talking here.

Theftwind.8976:

The only issue I have with raids as per the WoW example is that it breeds elitism. Then you have what we currently have with the Warrior/Berserker requirements for dugeon “speed runs” but multiplied a hundred fold. Raiders “expect” you to have specific gear, be traited in specific ways, to do things in specific order and so on. When a game gets to that point and I have to play my character the way someone else wants and not the way I want in order to take part in the latest content then it no longer becomes fun.

I agree, definitely no fun in this regard. But that’s also why we as persons and players get to choose who we spend time with. Whether or not there are raids, this type of mentality is common in any and everything we do in and outside of GW2. Some people want more challenging content and to do that it may require x-build or y-talents, etc. There would also be some persons who want to do normal and/or easy modes who group and do it at their own pace. There’s nothing wrong with that either. Everyone gets to choose who they play with, why content would limit players is beyond me – if anything it would put a person surrounded by players more of their own speed and interest.

Vayne.8563:

docMed.7692:

We can go in circles all day on this, but the only truth here is; our opinions and experiences in the game do not make them fact.

We can’t simply take these and translate them across the board to all players and ArenaNet’s handlings as the reason they occurred. My experience, along with many of my friends, has been far different than what you have described as your own, and what you also feel the community feels. Nonetheless, it doesn’t in-turn mean that my experience is how everyone played or didnt play GW2 nor why ArenaNet made the decisions they made. Unless you have some kind of actual factual information (numbers showing drop in players, their opinions captured and summed into sortable reasons, etc), then you’re just speaking in generalities. Personally, I have full ascended gear, but my own motivation has been for the shinies (it’s why I have a legendary too). Also, it’s not like the currently available ascended gear (trinkets) or a portion of it, couldn’t be made available through these means too. It’s simply another way to "play the game as you see fit". It’s not required for anyone to participate in, and it satisfies the PvE’ers looking for an actual challenge that occurs amongst your friends and/or like-minded guildies. I just don’t see how guild missions, which occur in open-world, could ever be scaled or made challenging. Hard content in open-world would only lead to the one’s who care to get it done being angry and upset at the one’s "leaching" their efforts. I just don’t see how it can be designed to humor all skill levels and interest.

You can go in circles all day. The stuff I said about why Anet did what they did was pulled from stuff Anet themselves have said. I’m not making stuff up. I’m notoriously bad at looking up quotes, but I’m pretty good at getting the gist of what people are saying inside Anet at different points.

There was a lot said in November about this, good luck finding it all now, but this isn’t made up stuff. And Anet had no reason to break their word to their fans unless they really felt they had to.

People who are raiders tend to want better gear. Not all of them, but enough of them. Over the years, there have been tons of polls about who raids and who doesn’t raid, and it’s always surprised me how small a percentage of the gaming population actually raids (just as it would likely surprise you what percentage of the WoW population insists on soloing).

Again, I’m not against the current state of the game. I play it, my guild and friends play it, and the first time we go through it gets crushed; we say that was cool, and it gets forgotten about. There’s no sense of actually needing to learn encounters because they are not scaled for casual and hardcore players. 99% of this content can literally be done on a 1/2 arsed first-attempt. That needs to be addressed. Maybe raids isn’t the best solution for all (because of it’s negative representation in the past), but there needs to be progression and wipes; I don’t understand why this is such a "skill-based" marketed game while providing facerolling content.

Regarding your thoughts and generalities as fact; whatever floats your boat. Clearly I cannot sweigh you to stop speaking in generalities, but if your gut tells you it’s truth, it must be!

Krosslite.1950:

docMed.7692:

Ordika.9513:

docMed.7692:

Krosslite.1950:

per Arenanet:

“Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, “because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr.” Instead, players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/

There is your Raiding

Are you implying that I have not experienced and/or given open-world content a chance? I participate in all aspects of the game, including these events (still do!). Yes, some are kind of fun with a small group, like grenth or the chain to take Arah, etc. Nonetheless, the rewards, scaling, difficulty level are all extremely lack luster. They do not support tight-knit groups of your guildies coming together to work on something. Open-world content will never be as challenging as structured-instanced balanced content. Scaling will never be able to properly work for a casual and hardcore player attempting the same content at the same time. Again – where is the challenge in PvE? I’ve participated in everything this game has to offer; there is no PvE challenge.

I think he is implying that what you want, the game designers already took into account, and made their version of it.

I don’t think so; He’s quoting an article pre-GW2 launch, which ArenaNet had no plans for Guild Missions at the time.

Yes I am.

So per this article and your statement. Your guild went passed the temples with a core guild group tell the zone what to hold so you can cause a certain web of events to take place?

If so then you have done all the content.

If not. no you haven’t and need to do so before you can make the statement you made. since it is incorrect

Huh?

Ordika.9513:

docMed.7692:

Ordika.9513:

docMed.7692:

Krosslite.1950:

per Arenanet:

“Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, “because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr.” Instead, players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/

There is your Raiding

Are you implying that I have not experienced and/or given open-world content a chance? I participate in all aspects of the game, including these events (still do!). Yes, some are kind of fun with a small group, like grenth or the chain to take Arah, etc. Nonetheless, the rewards, scaling, difficulty level are all extremely lack luster. They do not support tight-knit groups of your guildies coming together to work on something. Open-world content will never be as challenging as structured-instanced balanced content. Scaling will never be able to properly work for a casual and hardcore player attempting the same content at the same time. Again – where is the challenge in PvE? I’ve participated in everything this game has to offer; there is no PvE challenge.

I think he is implying that what you want, the game designers already took into account, and made their version of it.

I don’t think so; He’s quoting an article pre-GW2 launch, which ArenaNet had no plans for Guild Missions at the time.

He’s talking about Raids.

Raids aren’t inherently guild activity (though it does make them easier), but any group can form up and do them, to varying degrees of success.

ANet decided they wanted raids, but not the standard; form up, go to instance, beatup loot pinata, profit format. They decided to take the concept of the DE and expand on it in one zone of the game that would require the large scale coordinated effort similar to raiding, but without all its inherent restrictions.

Yea, I don’t mind the guild missions model. We have it on farm currently and it provides some great rewards too. The problem is, the content does not provide any challenge whatsoever. They need to implement something for players that actually want a challenge and I just don’t see how this could be accomplished in open-world, which leads me back to the dirty word of raids (albeit this take is much lighter in the sense though). There is just too much wrong with scaling, fight mecahnics, actual challenege (oh and overflow, such as the southsun events, your guild has the hassle of trying to get into the same zone if you get a challenge and/or rush there).

Karizee.8076:

docMed.7692:

Karizee.8076:

darkace.8925:

So if it’s just a dungeon with more people, what exactly about raids makes them so popular?

There’s the fallacy.

They are only popular with a very small niche community. Even WoW with it’s 8 million subscribers has less than 300k people raiding.

Whoa, that’s news to me – There’s really only 300,000?! I can’t recall meeting any player who has not participated in a normal mode raid, let alone LFR. Do you have a link to this article? I’d be interested in reading up on it.

No article needed. This links directly into their armory.

http://www.wowprogress.com/

Scroll down, 26,569 guilds have downed 1 boss (Jin’rokh) Of those, 25,836 are 10 man groups, the rest are 25 man groups.

It really is a very very tiny portion of the mmorpg community that likes raiding. They make a lot of noise but the numbers just aren’t there.

So this is ignoring the implementation of LFR, not to mention is a 3rd-party site? Sorry, this is probably a good representation of some of the higher level population in the game that raids, but it’s also missing a good majority of the more casual players in LFR. I’d be interested in actual Blizzard statistics and/or the population that raided prior to LFR for a more accurate representation. Can you literally think of any WoW players you know that have not raided in some capacity (LFR/normal/Hard)?

Ordika.9513:

docMed.7692:

Krosslite.1950:

per Arenanet:

“Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, “because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr.” Instead, players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/

There is your Raiding

Are you implying that I have not experienced and/or given open-world content a chance? I participate in all aspects of the game, including these events (still do!). Yes, some are kind of fun with a small group, like grenth or the chain to take Arah, etc. Nonetheless, the rewards, scaling, difficulty level are all extremely lack luster. They do not support tight-knit groups of your guildies coming together to work on something. Open-world content will never be as challenging as structured-instanced balanced content. Scaling will never be able to properly work for a casual and hardcore player attempting the same content at the same time. Again - where is the challenge in PvE? I’ve participated in everything this game has to offer; there is no PvE challenge.

I think he is implying that what you want, the game designers already took into account, and made their version of it.

I don’t think so; He’s quoting an article pre-GW2 launch, which ArenaNet had no plans for Guild Missions at the time.

Krosslite.1950:

per Arenanet:

“Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, “because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr.” Instead, players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we’ve seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.”

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/

There is your Raiding

Are you implying that I have not experienced and/or given open-world content a chance? I participate in all aspects of the game, including these events (still do!). Yes, some are kind of fun with a small group, like grenth or the chain to take Arah, etc. Nonetheless, the rewards, scaling, difficulty level are all extremely lack luster. They do not support tight-knit groups of your guildies coming together to work on something. Open-world content will never be as challenging as structured-instanced balanced content. Scaling will never be able to properly work for a casual and hardcore player attempting the same content at the same time. Again - where is the challenge in PvE? I’ve participated in everything this game has to offer; there is no PvE challenge.

**Edit** - I’m not saying open-world is necessarily bad, I’m just saying there is nothing there that is even remotely challenging. Guild Puzzles are the first thing that are actually pretty cool, challenging, and require some thought, but again, are just faceroll easy with a large group (i.e. poor scaling due to it being required to be in open-world). Dungeons are the hardest PvE type content, and again, this is faceroll easy as well. Not to mention, it makes it tough to experience this content with such a small group and I think many here would be open to the idea of challenging content that can be accomplished more with the people you choose to spend your time/surround one’s self with.

Karizee.8076:

darkace.8925:

So if it’s just a dungeon with more people, what exactly about raids makes them so popular?

There’s the fallacy.

They are only popular with a very small niche community. Even WoW with it’s 8 million subscribers has less than 300k people raiding.

Whoa, that’s news to me – There’s really only 300,000?! I can’t recall meeting any player who has not participated in a normal mode raid, let alone LFR. Do you have a link to this article? I’d be interested in reading up on it.

Zepher.7803:

docMed.7692:

I’m writing this post as an avid Guid Wars 2 player with around 2,000 hours age. I spend a ton of my time PvX’ing and participate with a high-end min/maxing PvE focused guild and have been enjoying GW2 since launch despite a few hiccups and missing/standard quality of life features. Nonetheless, PvE has been feeling rather dull lately (guild missions on farm, solo’ing lupi becoming stale, and living story quite frankly just does not interest me). With this in mind I wanted to toss out a potential raiding structure and get some community feedback. Ultimately I doubt hardcore PvE’ers will ever get a challenging raid-like structure that provides good experiences for all level of play and that Anet would support (since their main focus is not hardcore no-lifers like myself, although, true story I do have a life!), but maybe this thread will help shed some light on this potential.

As I spent a significant amount of time raiding with us/world progression wow guilds, I have to say I do miss some of this structure. Mainly the sense of accomplishment, the excitement of getting people together to work on a specific goal, etc (I do not, however, miss gear-tier grinding for stat benefits). Ideally I would love to see a raiding structure in place (maybe 10-mans?) that featured challenging encounters with hard and normal modes. The loot would only be cosmetic-based rewards and the only benefit of completing hard modes would simply be access to the cosmetic rewards quicker and/or achievements/titles. Basically, the system could combine wow’s structure with Anet’s mindset on rewarding loot/not discriminating against types of players. On a side note I do believe there should be different cosmetic rewards for different types of play but all stats nonetheless should be made available in any type of PvX play.

Although Guild Missions are basically supposed to be raiding, open-world mechanics are just terrible and allow for easy trolling. We need some type of instance based content here.

So anyways, there’s my simplistic layout of a potential weekly-raid structure that all could enjoy if they like the chase for more cosmetics/achieves but wouldn’t have to participate in if they don’t! Feedback or your own ideas welcome!

subject line contains the word “Raid” nuff said, didn’t read.

That’s fine; to each their own! Although I think you would find this is a much lighter take on the idea!

We can go in circles all day on this, but the only truth here is; our opinions and experiences in the game do not make them fact.

We can’t simply take these and translate them across the board to all players and ArenaNet’s handlings as the reason they occurred. My experience, along with many of my friends, has been far different than what you have described as your own, and what you also feel the community feels. Nonetheless, it doesn’t in-turn mean that my experience is how everyone played or didnt play GW2 nor why ArenaNet made the decisions they made. Unless you have some kind of actual factual information (numbers showing drop in players, their opinions captured and summed into sortable reasons, etc), then you’re just speaking in generalities. Personally, I have full ascended gear, but my own motivation has been for the shinies (it’s why I have a legendary too). Also, it’s not like the currently available ascended gear (trinkets) or a portion of it, couldn’t be made available through these means too. It’s simply another way to "play the game as you see fit". It’s not required for anyone to participate in, and it satisfies the PvE’ers looking for an actual challenge that occurs amongst your friends and/or like-minded guildies. I just don’t see how guild missions, which occur in open-world, could ever be scaled or made challenging. Hard content in open-world would only lead to the one’s who care to get it done being angry and upset at the one’s "leaching" their efforts. I just don’t see how it can be designed to humor all skill levels and interest.

Vayne.8563:

I still don’t believe people will raid (in bulk) if they don’t get more power out of it. Not that it couldn’t have been this way, but since most people have been trained by other games, they EXPECT more power out of raiding.

Some people, undoubtedly, will raid even for just cosmetic gear, but can you get groups of 20 to do that regularly? I’m thinking not.

This is why Anet ended up introducing ascended gear. Too many people weren’t going to work for cosmetics only. Anet was forced to compromise to keep some people in the game.

It’s a crappy truth, but it doesn’t make it false.

What? Your opinion does not make something truth, no matter how much you believe it.

daimasei.4091:

And when Anet add raids you will finish them, get bored, demand new ones, finish them, get bored, demand new ones, etc, etkittenil you found a new game without raids and move there to ask for raids leaving us, players who bought GW2 to get away from kittenty-raids-games or loyal GW players looking for a quality game like the original, with a lot of unwanted content nobody will do ever, and with a poorly developed game because Anet was to busy creating raids for you to pay attention to the rest of the game.

The thing is: If you love WoW Raids (or from any other of the bazillions of clones out there), WHY THAT HELL ARE YOU HERE ASKING FOR RAIDS? WoW is still online (same with most of their clones) as far as I’m aware.
If raids are truly that awesome, why don’t go and keep playing there?

And no, I’m not asking you to leave GW if you don’t like it or those kitten fanboys always said, I’m legitimately asking why, if raids are so great and there is already hundred of games with that system, why come to GW and ask for raids instead of keep playing in WoW?

Also, this is a F2P game, shinies and aesthetics items belong to the Gem Store. If we we could get shiny weapons by finishing a 10-15 men dungeon then, what would be Anet profit?

I really feel like you didn’t read my post. I enjoy GW2 thoroughly as a PvX player (wvw, pvp, and pve). It’s just unfortunate that PvE is currently lackluster and doesn’t offer any high-level PvE’ers any bit of a challenge.

Firefly.5982:

Honestly I don’t think it would be difficult top implement raids that work in GW2. A lot of development work of course, but all new content is. Just keep the system, that is currently used with dungeons.

Don’t add gear grind to the mix. Just keep it the way it is right now. No items drop, instead token rewards. Everybody gets their tokens, everybody can purchase their reward with it. Which would be a new exotic armor set. Just like the other dungeon rewards. We need more armor sets in game anyway.

People who want to do raids for gear progression didn’t buy the right game when they bought GW2. People who want to do raids to test their skill, progress through hard content as a team, play challengeing stuff with their guildies and the like – thos will be happy with not getting Legendary rewards for 1 person of the party with each boss kill

This is definitely the idea I was getting at. I would just open it a bit more to a skill tuning ability for groups that want more or less of a challenge (and ideally more or less tokens and/or achieves per week).

Yea, again - the general idea would be content that actually gives your tight-knit group of guildies (beyond 5 people, this is just too small!) to get together more and accomplish the tasks at hand. Rewards would be ultimately available to everyone and based on whether you do hard mode or normal mode, would reward a slight boost in more tokens for hard and/or achievements - but ultimately, over time, everyone would get the same rewards.

People have a negative view on raiding simply because of what WoW has done to it. Guild missions are a good start and I can see the general ideas ArenaNet is laying out there, but there are just too many difficulties that lend itself to open world (scaling, difficult content for all levels of play at once, mechanics that lend itself to be trollable even when unintentional, etc).

I should also add, I have done a ton of open world PvE farming; the main issue here is given a large enough group they are all crushed through easily. Additionally, hunting them down with a small group yields 0 cosmetic reward short of a potential drop and karma. If they want us to hunt these types of events down, they need to make the benefits far more rewarding.

GW2 sold itself as a skill based game, where does this actually apply in PvE?

I think it’s kind of strange that these last few posts are focused around concerns pertaining to segregating players. There is always going to be different skill levels, involvement, interest, goals, etc. These will innately segregate players. I’ve also indicated the structure would need to work for all levels, hardcore and casual, which normal/hard modes could provide. Just as if a casual player wants to play with relaxed/casual players so should a hardcore min/mazer be given the right to group with like minded players. There are jerks both amongst casual/hardcore, to give the impression that challenging content would only bring hate on casuals is unfounded. I’ve known plenty of nice elite or casual players just as I’ve known as many jerks who are elite or casual. The fact of the matter is, this current PvE content holds no weight and is crushed through by min/maxers in literally minutes. I’m not saying we should only make content for these types of players, but it would be nice if this game provided some type of content that allowed this type of play to actually exist (ie provide challenge). In my opinion, farming broken mechanic open world PvE events is simply put - boring. Progression in challenge and cosmetic-only rewards would be a welcome change.

Players want to be the best and play with the best in any aspect of any game; especially in GW2. Look at WvW and PvP - two very competitive aspects of any game. I don’t see any reason why groups of players that want to accomplish something at a high-level of play are frowned upon just because they are typically the minority (i.e. more casual players than hardcore players). Nonetheless, there are other players on the exact opposite spectrum that play simply to enjoy the game, which this system would not obstruct them from doing so. For hardcore gamers like myself, there really isn’t much that the PvE world currently offers on a large scale for our guild. We get together for guild missions, destroy them in a hour, and then that’s it, PvE-wise, we have no other reasons on a large scale to get together and do any other content. 5 man’s just feel unrewarding on a guild level and I think on the PvE side of things we could really use some more incentives to get a larger part of the guild together working on difficult PvE content.

You should check out the guild recruitment forums. I’m sure there are entry-level type groups there that would be open to early fractals/helping you out.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

docMed.7692:

This is all great feedback so far and I welcome more discussion.

Not to be a party kittener, but there is really nothing left to discuss.
There have already been several very long, very detailed discussions about raids.
I honestly believe there is nothing anyone can say either for or against that has not been said already, at least twice. (yes, the forum search is one of the worst I have ever seen, but the threads are actually there somewhere). Eventually, the mods will simply merge this thread in to one of the already existing threads, and it will also fade away in to the none searchable area they have somewhere.
If you really want raids, your better off posting in the suggestions forum. If enough people suggest it, it’s more likely to happen then being posted here as another in the very long line of soon to disappear threads.

There’s still plenty to discuss. I’m not even saying this should be implemented, I’m just interested in community feedback (i.e. what’s good/bad about raiding in general) and from there, if I feel warranted, would create an actual suggestion thread to ArenaNet. The same logic you applied (re-cycled discussions) can literally be applied to 99% of the content on these threads.

Krosslite.1950:

docMed.7692:

allow for easy trolling.

Out of all the post this is what stuck out to me.

For one there is raid content in this game beyond the temples.

As long you people have the attitude that people joining in the “open” world content and consider them to be “trolling” you are in actuality the troll.

It is up to guilds to get a core group together and maintain goals. If you do not allow people that are not in your guild to join in then this is not your game. Since this is an open world game.

Well, there’s plenty of counters to that logic (instanced dungeons, pvp, etc – I’m not asking for open-world things to be eliminated, I like that aspect too; just guild missions are not a suitable replacement for raids in my opinion). Nonetheless, the main issue there in open-world & guild missions is the mechanics in which ArenaNet implements this content. For example, even if a player just stands in the area of a guild mission, the player will scale the mission, same as any event. They will also scale a mission whether they are level cap (80) or if they are just level enough to enter the zone. There are also mechanics, such as guild bounty missions, where if a mob is attacked when it shouldn’t be (Half-baked), it can make him unkillable unless he is zerged down with a 50+ group, which in my opinion also isn’t very fun and again, makes it open to individuals trolling, whether it is intentional or not. Instanced play, available to everyone, allows for more balanced content. Again, I’m not saying open-world/guild-missions should be removed, but there’s also no reason to not exapnd upon instanced play, which already exists in a multitude of ways in GW2.

Yea, I definitely wouldn’t want to step into a system that alienates players or makes them feel like they have to participate in this aspect. Nonetheless, I do think a cosmetic based grind is more than enough to get players interested (think guild mission rewards, but we could even eliminate ascended gear, or just make it another way to get the already available WvW/Fotm/Laurel ascended gear. Basically, what I’m proposing is almost essentially guild missions, but fine tuned mechanics (like guild puzzle + a boss at the same time), set party sizes (eliminates the difficulty with factoring in scaling), instanced (eliminates trolling from open world), and hardmode/normal modes to allow for different skill levels, but over time ultimately providing the same rewards (again, differences would just be more tokens or w/e currency for completing hard mode than normal mode and/or access to certain titles).

Dark, regarding your commens, 5 mans are fun (I don’t think they should be removed of course), but there’s an even better sense of accomplishment when you have a larger group (one of the reasons wildstar is doing 40 man raids). The social atmosphere, in my opinion, is much more fun, the fight mechanics can be expanded more, and the difficulty is often higher. Think of 5 mans more as entry-level type dungeons that can scale up (i.e. exlporable modes). Raiding is, ok, you’re solid at your class now, let’s see yuo take your mechanics and expand leadership across multiple groups at the same time and coordinate multiple groups to meet a certain goal. It’s also something that is more rare to occur (i.e. can only clear once a week typically), so it makes it that more interesting/exciting as it gives a group/guild something to look forward to in general from week to week. I need a psychiatrist to explain this better, but overall it’s just healthier for the lively hood of a game.

I agree Vayne - I definitely would not want to step into a raid structure mirrored after WoW. It would have to be handled carefully and the encounters I think could also be really fun. A big focus of it would be coordination between groups and the mechanics only limited to developer time/experience. Rolling something out like this would probably be a huge overhaul and time consuming, but nonetheless, I do think in the long-run would be a great investment for the health of the game. The main thing is just to make sure it isn’t required, can be experienced by all, and also provides rewarding/repeatable experiences for both the hardcore and casual gamer (i.e. normal mode vs hard mode, etc). This is all great feedback so far and I welcome more discussion.

I’m writing this post as an avid Guid Wars 2 player with around 2,000 hours age. I spend a ton of my time PvX’ing and participate with a high-end min/maxing PvE focused guild and have been enjoying GW2 since launch despite a few hiccups and missing/standard quality of life features. Nonetheless, PvE has been feeling rather dull lately (guild missions on farm, solo’ing lupi becoming stale, and living story quite frankly just does not interest me). With this in mind I wanted to toss out a potential raiding structure and get some community feedback. Ultimately I doubt hardcore PvE’ers will ever get a challenging raid-like structure that provides good experiences for all level of play and that Anet would support (since their main focus is not hardcore no-lifers like myself, although, true story I do have a life!), but maybe this thread will help shed some light on this potential.

As I spent a significant amount of time raiding with us/world progression wow guilds, I have to say I do miss some of this structure. Mainly the sense of accomplishment, the excitement of getting people together to work on a specific goal, etc (I do not, however, miss gear-tier grinding for stat benefits). Ideally I would love to see a raiding structure in place (maybe 10-mans?) that featured challenging encounters with hard and normal modes. The loot would only be cosmetic-based rewards and the only benefit of completing hard modes would simply be access to the cosmetic rewards quicker and/or achievements/titles. Basically, the system could combine wow’s structure with Anet’s mindset on rewarding loot/not discriminating against types of players. On a side note I do believe there should be different cosmetic rewards for different types of play but all stats nonetheless should be made available in any type of PvX play.

Although Guild Missions are basically supposed to be raiding, open-world mechanics are just terrible and allow for easy trolling. We need some type of instance based content here.

So anyways, there’s my simplistic layout of a potential weekly-raid structure that all could enjoy if they like the chase for more cosmetics/achieves but wouldn’t have to participate in if they don’t! Feedback or your own ideas welcome!

To the OP - have to agree. It can even be boiled down to a player’s gameplay participation in general. For example, as a PvX player, I find the game refreshing and constantly rewarding being able to bounce from PvE to WvW to tPvP as I see fit. I can see though why non-PvX players would get bored with simply one aspect of the game and consequently frustrated in the delay of real reward such as a legendary, full cultural armor, etc.; and also why the above mentioned features you referenced would also frustrate one specific type of player that doesn’t utilize the balance this game offers.

The long grind isn’t the issue - it is the R N G. If a player knows the starting and ending point of the grind, it’s much easier to get through it. Rather than simply getting lucky with a precursor drop or MF toilet production.

Thanks for putting this together - You can add DnT (yes, the primarily focused PvE guild), to this list. We have a core/developing tpvp team with high dedication.

AoE is terrible in 8’s.. but it’s perfect in 5’s. The competitive scene is 5’s and what the balance of the game is focused on. You can play 4v4 in SC2, but nobody complains of the imbalance at that level.

I’m not even going to bother retorting to these blatant misnomers you try to rub off as holding any weight. Good luck in your other games where you try to create threads (for whatever reason) titled "dumb and dumber" and expect anyone to take you seriously and/or engage with you in any constructive conversation.

I’d just ignore this thread outright, waste of time posting.

Oh gosh, are you really going to create multiple posts like this?

Inb4 locked.

#1 - You’re talking about being elite... in a regards to player vs player ranking... as a negative thing? They have 5v5 hot join for a reason.

# 2 - No, just no. They should however separate solo q vs team q, which they’ve already addressed they are working on.

# 3 - That is untrue. Myself, amongst many others, solo q and have climbed into the top 1000 easily from this method.

Being out of the scene for 2 months does not make you an informative expert. In fact, although there is still much to fix, what they’ve implemented in the past 2 months have been a significant benefit to class balanace, development of the current meta, and quality of life improvements.

Great group of players.

Rank =/ MMR. They could have won 1-2 matches, been sky rocketed because of this, finally hit a match that will in turn knock them down in normalization. ArenaNet should just show a person’s MMR at the end (just like rank) so we stop seeing these QQ posts of uneducated players.

Hi all,

During launch (and for a few months after) there was a guild tag that many of the top competitve tPvP teams used to communicate between each other, organize matches/queue’ing up against each other, etc. Does this still exist and if so can a rep contact me directly?

Thanks!

Reciprocity.8021:

docMed.7692:

Reciprocity.8021:

Raine.1394:

As was said, try guesting on Tarnished Coast. All areas of the game are populated. Plenty of people leveling alts or simply new players. Your server will determine the quality of life in-game and there are several good ones. With guesting you can skip the pain if you can’t afford to transfer as long as you don’t care about WvW.

I thought transfers were free? sigh

I won’t ever pay money to mitigate a poor game population. I played that game in Wow and spent nearly $2k over the years moving my toons around.

Never did understand why companies will charge people to try and stay interested in their game because their population management skills were lacking.

So I’m stuck where I am I guess, which means I’ll likely grow bored of solo play and move on. Brilliant business model.

It costs gems to transfer (typically around 1800). You can convert gold into gems (current rate is around 3 gold per 100 gems). Therefore you would need 3 × 18 (54 gold) to transfer servers. You can farm 54 gold within a few days casually, let alone easily in around 7-8 hours if you are hardcore at 80; all within the game (no need to spend real money). Not to mention, purchasing 1800 gems is fairly cheap when compared to $2,000 you allegedly spent on world of warcraft. There seems to be a bit of a gap in your potential claim here for a one time fix that apparently is ruining your $60.00 purchase.

Edit – I really don’t get why you would even bother complaining; you just said you spent $2,000 just to transfer characters and now $15 to fix (immediately) your leveling process is the end all for you? Stop trolling and go back to WoW.

Why did you even bother to respond like some socially challenged problem kiddie? Sounds like you need to go back to Wow.

As if I’m lying about spending 2k to impress some random tool who’s opinion holds absolutely zero value with me.

So let me draw this out in crayon for you since you don’t seem to grasp the concept. I’m at a point where I don’t feel like blowing that kind of money on a game any more. What part of that is so hard to understand, troll?

/facepalm

wait…

/doublefacepalm

Who said you’re lying? Allegedly means just that, potential to be truth or not; I would call you a liar if I felt it was the truth. I spend lots of money on gaming too, it’s not uncommon. Your post has hints of backhanded comments towards the communities and the brief experience you’ve had with this game. I would hardly consider my post trolling nor do I have any interest to ever return to WoW. Good luck.

PsionicDingo.2065:

Thanks for the info, stof and Aterian. That’s really good to know for amassing my skin collection.

Gracias!

You should check out dulfy.net for awesome guides on skins/etc.

Updated***************

I think this question basically already been asked but in another form (i.e. options/features that can be adjusted in the maps settings).

You all are overlooking one clear benefit of having a cost associated with hosting these custom arenas; It will significantly reduce the amount of spam rooms and force users to really create rooms that are beneficial for the community. If everyone just made one for free, you would see the "F!uck you all rooms" pop up, etc. When someone has to drop a little bit (hopefully its like 500 gems at most for a kit, 100 gems after that to rent) of currency, it keeps the community in check regarding the decisions it makes. Not to mention, it supports the developers who have to, neigh, MUST, make money. Don’t forget this is an on-going game, with 24-7 servers, and constant (it’s been monthly since launch!) content releases and quality of life improvements. At least be realistic when you gripe here. If ArenaNet introduces a way to earn a very small amount of gems from free tournaments, etc, then I am 100% in support of these gem purchasing kits and monthly rental tokens. The main philosophy that I agree with ArenaNet and their use of gems is; Paying outright will give you access to their items (that have no game play advantage) quickly, but if you’re patient, you can earn access to the content at a slower rate through the game (i.e. hopefully earning gems with the release of non-beta custom arenas through free tournaments).

tl; dr - ArenaNet just needs to release spvp earnable gems to support this [custom arenas] and we’re good.

Updated 4/24/13

Hi Garethh, not to be rude, but could you refrain from detracting from the purpose of this thread, which is just to have a forum for questions/requests (such as features) for ArenaNet? General feedback can be supplied in another thread. Thanks for understanding!

gwawer.9805:

can we ban classes like no mes and no thief in custom arenas? i’d rent one if we could

I’ve added a “requests” portion since this really isn’t a question (i.e. we know the current filters/options ArenaNet has in place).

I imagine you won’t be able to earn rank points via custom games, but I’ve added the question to the list (# 10) nonetheless and tweaked it around a bit.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We have an internal FAQ that we’re updated based on reading the forums. Thanks for adding these questions docMed!

Sounds good, and no problem – happy to help! As you can tell, I’m really looking forward to this feature.

Updated & Reserved ***********

Hi Devs, thanks for putting this mode out, sounds awesome. Others please feel free to post your questions here for a consolidated thread for the devs and our community!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-custom-pvp-arenas-and-spectator-mode-beta/

Please note the following is subject to change and you should at least glance over the above link prior to reviewing this F.A.Q.

F.A.Q.

Q 1. When will the Custom Arena beta be released?
A 1. April 30th, 2013 patch

Q 2. Who will initially have access to Custom Arenas?
A 2. Top 50 QP ladder players (50 NA, 50 EU) will each be given a Custom Arena along with select media.

Q 3. Post beta, how will Custom Arenas be acquired and what is their rental time frame?
A 3. A Custom Arena Kit will initially be purchased with gems. From there users can purchase Custom Arena Tokens (i.e. game time) again with gems to add to their own servers or others’ servers. ArenaNet has expressed a potential monthly rental rotation, but also indicated this is subject to change based on our feedback.

Q 4. Will a patch be required to expand the current user cap?
A 4. There will undoubtedly be fixes and polish tasks generated from beta. These will require a patch.

Q 5. Will it cost gems to play on a server?
A 5. It doesn’t cost gems to play on a server, only to own one.

Q 6. Will users who purchased a Custom Arena Starter Kit due to a bug be able use them during the beta?
A 6. Yes they will be fully functional.

Q 7. What are the current options available for Custom Arenas?
A 7. Custom Arena Name, Password, Message of the Day, Team Size, Score Limit, Time Limit, Respawn Time, Respawn Type: (Wave vs. individual), Minimum players, Reserved Slots, Spectators: Y/N, Ready Button, Auto Balance, Lock Gear, Lock Skills, No Stats, Map selection, Member players, Member Guilds, Banned Players

Q 8. Will Spectator Mode apply to Custom Arenas?
A 8. Yes, if the option has been enabled.

Q 9. Will ArenaNet have their own Custom Arena(s)?
A 9. Yes, Chaplan’s Existential Enclave, Bluxgore’s House of Paincakes. See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Will-Anet-have-there-own-custom-Arena/first#post1884272.

Q 10. Does spectator mode include a birds eye view?
A 10. Yes, however there are currently no replay features. See http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/04/23/flameseeker-chronicles-aprils-guild-wars-2-patch-brings-custom/

Unanswered Q’s:
1. How long will the beta period last?
2. Does ArenaNet plan to expand the beta users and if so when and to what population?
3. Has a delay feature been considered regarding spectating live matches?
4. As it is subject to change, is there at least a base cost for custom arena’s considered?
5. Will custom arena’s allow the modification of map mechanics in the future? i.e. adjust treb damage, spawn timers on orbs, turn off certain capture points, etc?
6. How will banned players be handled? i.e. can a user be temporarily banned, permenantely banned, vote banned, etc?
7. Will the Custom Arena Kit owner be able to assign Admins?
8. Given that this is the first introduction of a consistant form of gem purchasing in sPvP; will the gem rewards start to be implemented to support these features on the sPvP side?
9. Will Custom Arenas be able to host more than 1 match concurrently and if not, how easily can matches be reset/settings adjusted by the Custom Arena owner?
10. Will any form of rank points be earned via Custom Arenas?
11. In the future will this system develop into and/or be utilized for something similar to guild halls?
12. What is the Custom Arena maximum player limit?

Request(s):
1. Custom Arena options: (a) Class filtering (banning), (b) Down state enabled?: Y/N, (c) Down state rally?: Y/N, (d) King of the Hill mode, (e) Team Deathmatch mode,...

**edit** I will update this thread as it develops accordingly.

The only way a guardian is worth it is if all 3 warriors are running 20/25/0/10/15 (tactics for +damage per boon). You will never come across this scenario in pugs. 4 war/1 mes is still by far the best currently. Either way though its fairly neglibile as we’re talking the difference of 30-60 seconds a clear on average between the group setups.

Absoulutely warrior. Meta for zerging is 4 zerk war / 1 zerk mes. For fractals it’s 1-2 guardians, 1-2 warriors, 1 mes, and/or an ele. For higher level dungeons (Arah/CoE/etc) it’s 1 guardian, 3 warriors, 1 mesmer.

There are plenty of guides you can refer to;

the wiki has a nice section on all the base components + each legendary’s specific requirements:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon

This site will let you calc. legendary gold cost per weapon based on current TP BUY prices: https://bravevesperia.com/extra/weaponcalculator.php

Time:

It takes roughly 1200g to 1500g per legendary at current TP prices. The most efficient farm is cof p1 zerk war/mes farming, which means you will need about 2000 cof p1 runs at around 7 minutes a cycle (2000 x 7 = 233 hours played), which will also earn you all the karma you need from vials + using them when you have a karma booster/banner. From there you will need map completition, and tokens, skill points, etc.

TL; dr - Grind hardcore ~ 2 months. Casually grind, 6 months to a year.