Guild Wars 2

I love a lot of the suggestions here. The main thing is; make exciting and time consuming rewards that encourage all types of players to take an interest. The first best step here was introducing earned finishers as usable types in WvW. Literally one of the best and most intriguing implementations that I know a ton of players now hop into sPvP because of, including myself. sPvP still needs it’s own unique rewards too (like it’s own legendary system/etc), but giving huge incentives for players outside of sPvP is huge to bolstering this community.

Although it doesn’t impact me much anymore (almost 7 80’s), I do think it would be very cool to have a minimal amount of xp contribution towards your character from participating in pvp.

JonPeters.5630:

docMed.7692:

DevonCarver.5370:

docMed.7692:

DevonCarver.5370:

docMed.7692:

This new map sounds very cool and I’m excited to learn more about and hopefully be part of the development process!

• edit ** Thought about it more; less-server allegiance doesn’t make sense no matter how much I think it may present an issue for the larger population server. With the seasons enabled though, there certainly will be a population issue an Server A having a much larger pop than Server B/C.

Q: What objectives and/or incentives would be available for Server A on a potentially empty opposition map?

We aren’t quite ready to talk about how we are addressing that, but it is a top-level consideration for the success of the map. It has to be fun when you are the only world and be fun when full of all three worlds. Once the testing begins we’ll talk more about the mechanics we intend to solve that problem.

Sounds good. Seems like a tough thing to balance!

Another Q: Are there time limits regarding the duration of an edge map such as PvP or will each overflow essentially be a persisten server as long as there is some minimum population?

The duration of the map will be less than a full WvW map. We are currently looking at 4 hours per match, but that number is subject to change as the test goes on. The idea is that it has some heft to it, while still being an amount of time that feels reasonable to complete in one sitting. Feedback on this will be crucial to determining the final values.

Q: Are there going to be win/loss scenarios? First to 1000 points, first to take X objective, etc? If so, might run into scenarios that spvp faced on a small scale (i.e. premades vs pugs).

Thanks again for being so responsive.

These are exactly the kind of questions that are going to be part of the discussion that happens as part of the test!

Alright, I’ll wait for more information than before continuing my bombardment of questions. Happy Friday!

Shads.9468:

docMed.7692:

I would imagine their goals are to solve both these problems. Just because they’re working on one solution now doesn’t mean they are not concerned about the other nor are currently working on another that is not ready to be discussed.

Ok, I hear you, but where do you think the game would be if the free transfers hadn’t been taken away?

They took away free transfers for whatever reason.. but then they had to introduce this random ranking system to stop stuff from being stale after 6 months. When a company takes away one method of generating a dynamic player driven system, and then inserts a pay-wall between it and then introduces a random system instead.. Well one system was income neutral, whereas the other is income positive.

The worst part of it all is that the people who paid the gems to transfer to the overpopulated servers are the ones who directly benefit from this..

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here; transfers have always been disclosed as an associated cost and the times they’ve lifted these restrictions were to entirely encourage population balances. Not to mention it is overall cheaper to transfer to a lower tier. Additionally, transfers impact all your chars for approximately $18.... Games like WoW involve $25 per! ArenaNet hardly gouges or introduces aggressive restrictions here.

I’d just be patient and see where this goes first; one of their goals is to get more people interested in WvW. You may see a population increase on your server that participate in WvW because of this.

DevonCarver.5370:

docMed.7692:

DevonCarver.5370:

docMed.7692:

This new map sounds very cool and I’m excited to learn more about and hopefully be part of the development process!

• edit ** Thought about it more; less-server allegiance doesn’t make sense no matter how much I think it may present an issue for the larger population server. With the seasons enabled though, there certainly will be a population issue an Server A having a much larger pop than Server B/C.

Q: What objectives and/or incentives would be available for Server A on a potentially empty opposition map?

We aren’t quite ready to talk about how we are addressing that, but it is a top-level consideration for the success of the map. It has to be fun when you are the only world and be fun when full of all three worlds. Once the testing begins we’ll talk more about the mechanics we intend to solve that problem.

Sounds good. Seems like a tough thing to balance!

Another Q: Are there time limits regarding the duration of an edge map such as PvP or will each overflow essentially be a persisten server as long as there is some minimum population?

The duration of the map will be less than a full WvW map. We are currently looking at 4 hours per match, but that number is subject to change as the test goes on. The idea is that it has some heft to it, while still being an amount of time that feels reasonable to complete in one sitting. Feedback on this will be crucial to determining the final values.

Q: Are there going to be win/loss scenarios? First to 1000 points, first to take X objective, etc? If so, might run into scenarios that spvp faced on a small scale (i.e. premades vs pugs).

Thanks again for being so responsive.

ARM.3912:

docMed.7692:

Constructive criticism is fine, but in this scneario he doesn’t even go into what he thinks is wrong o.0

You would have to be an idiot to not know what was wrong though, so he was just saving himself typing time.

I haven’t run my ele. much since patch nor am I home to currently test. Enlighten me.

Constructive criticism is fine, but in this scneario he doesn’t even go into what he thinks is wrong o.0

Ele’s are in a great place right now and have a wide range of viable specs depending on your interests and play style (i.e. conjure weapons pve build, pvp fresh air high dps S/D build, traditional d/d cantrip *can be built tank/support/ or dps, and zerg/large group focused staff support or dps builds).

My only recommendation is try saving some of your more important abilities for the right situation as opposed to just going through your rotation and spamming them out. Knowing your cooldowns and what is up, as opposed to just swapping to an attunement and hoping the ability is up, also helps a lot per scenario. I can tell you that ele’s on a high level are anything short of swap and spam (for example on a d/d build, earth stun/aura’s, churning, RTL, knockback, etc all should not just be spammed and should be used at key moments to either bait out the use of stability/defensive uses and/or when you know their CD’s are down).

Shads.9468:

DevonCarver.5370:

This is not, I repeat not,, intended to fix population imbalance. This is intended to address the population of people who are in the queue. We will make moves to address population imbalance as we can. This has nothing to do with that.

You’re helping the people who are part of the problem. You are quite literally saying "hey guys, thanks for being part of an overbalanced population.. here have another map to play on.. "

Have you ever looked into what WvW would be like if it was free to transfer down to a server that was (an eg) Ranking-3+?. My guess is that you would never would have had to introduce the new ranking system.

I would imagine their goals are to solve both these problems. Just because they’re working on one solution now doesn’t mean they are not concerned about the other nor are currently working on another that is not ready to be discussed.

DevonCarver.5370:

docMed.7692:

This new map sounds very cool and I’m excited to learn more about and hopefully be part of the development process!

• edit ** Thought about it more; less-server allegiance doesn’t make sense no matter how much I think it may present an issue for the larger population server. With the seasons enabled though, there certainly will be a population issue an Server A having a much larger pop than Server B/C.

Q: What objectives and/or incentives would be available for Server A on a potentially empty opposition map?

We aren’t quite ready to talk about how we are addressing that, but it is a top-level consideration for the success of the map. It has to be fun when you are the only world and be fun when full of all three worlds. Once the testing begins we’ll talk more about the mechanics we intend to solve that problem.

Sounds good. Seems like a tough thing to balance!

Another Q: Are there time limits regarding the duration of an edge map such as PvP or will each overflow essentially be a persisten server as long as there is some minimum population?

This new map sounds very cool and I’m excited to learn more about and hopefully be part of the development process!

** edit ** Thought about it more; less-server allegiance doesn’t make sense no matter how much I think it may present an issue for the larger population server. With the seasons enabled though, there certainly will be a population issue; e.g. Server A pop > much larger than Server B/C pop.

Q: What objectives and/or incentives would be available for Server A on a potentially empty opposition map?

This is probably a larger issue (i.e. system-based), but here goes:

1) Raid UI (implement - let us see more than 5 people; maybe 20?)
2) Condition Cap Issues (fix for physical objects/address better scaling in PvE)
3) Server Latency (address lag with zergs)

I remember reading over and hearing about the coming changes from Anet Devs to this and the overall nerf to stats (which I thought was great, 150 to all stats is quite a bit... 60 at max is fine, but I wouldn’t mind if they were removed completely). I also recall recently hearing caveats about this being a temporary adjustment and in the future a better implementation of the bloodlust buff will be coming, which I’m still looking forward to. What irked me a bit here though is, the "stat nerf" did not make any mention of a stomp point reduction (that blindsighted me a bit). Additionally, Season 1 starts this Friday and that forthcoming change and better implementation of bloodlust will not be coming during this period, as I imagine Anet will want to have all mechanics to remain the same during these seasons to ensure ’fair competition’.

Overall, WvW is definitely in a better place due to the changes on these borderland maps and reimplementation of this bloodlust buff. We’ve seen an increase of fights around them, but this temporary nerf has all but halted much interest, especially considering taking more than 1 point is now unneccessary.

Please consider making the following changes before this Friday:

** Note, these are not cumulative.

1 Capture: + 10 All Stats, +5 Vitality, -1% damage taken versus siege & npcs, +1 points per stomp
2 Captures: + 20 All Stats, +10 Vitality, -2% damage taken versus siege & npcs, +2 points per sotmp
3 Captures: +30 All Stats, +15 Vitality, -3% damage taken versus siege & npcs, +2 points per stomp

Why the huge preamble; why not just ask "What is your opinion on SPvP" if your goal is not to call Colin out? lol.

ColinJohanson.2394:

You’ll see changes to rewards in general come in a number of different phases/steps to the PvP system. Our goal is to get the base core reward updates out by the end of this year, but it’s going to come right down to the wire for testing, engineering and localization so we can’t promise, that’s just our target.

We’ll go into greater detail on larger systems beyond the basics in January as part of the state of the game blog so you know what we’re building towards, we’re still early into testing and development to go into too many details.

My favorite update you guys made so far (not that the other QOL changes haven’t been great as well) has been probably one of the simplest and that involved adding finishers earned from PvP rank into WvW. Changes like this are awesome and give players like myself more than enough reason to hop into PvP; play a while, and keep a PvX approach to GW2 going! +1 for this implementation and I really look forward to continued changes that hopefully keep bridging the gap between PvP/PvE (WvW) rewards!

** Edit ** - To add more; unique rewards to each specific type of play is also important, but what these cross-play-style-rewards do is incentivize specific communities to check out other areas of GW2 they may not have otherwise been interested in.

Some of the unfortunate consequences of limiting players that leave and punishing them is essentially the spvp population itself. Nonetheless, for it to be successful; punishment has to occur for players that leave/DC and there should also be a "match found - accept?" option so people that unintentionally afk do not impact their team negatively. I think that is the simplest resolution here and as the population hopefully continues to grow with the promise of new match modes, etc, then we can look into larger implementations where eliminating players from queue, etc, doesn’t in-turn largely impact queue times.

One extra thought;

Teams that run into a situation of "4v5" or lesser numbers vs less should received reduced rank loss penalties. In the situation of an uneven match, punish the leaver with more rank loss than usual and less rank loss for the members that stayed (this might be a larger implementation though depending on how rank is calculated at the end of a match now). I’m sure this would sit better with the team of 4 knowing that they are essentially not losing a significant amount of rank when they happen to get unlucky.

Nice post Chris and I agree completely. Some people are just unrealistic and fail to realize there are individuals behind this company; not some machine. These same unrealistic individuals will argue something along the lines of "I paid for the game", but that’s a moot point when it comes down to basic human interaction. Although I’m not the biggest fan of the living story model, I still enjoy many of the other aspects GW2 provides and trust there will continue to be QOL improvements and other engaging content outside of the living story, as there have been for well over a year now. People need to realize not every single patch Anet puts out will hit 100% of the time specifically on the issues the individual wants addressed and engage with each other better as a community.

Jado Cast.1805:

magikfox.9658:

Korbaal.6402:

Super Wilson.7408:

Hello everyone My name is Wilson… I play a warrior in the small man squads of Jade Quarry’s Strike Force. I have been making videos for only about a month now. With the great fights OPP has been providing this week I really wanted to post this video here for all to enjoy. I only have a free version of Bandicam, so I miss a ton of stuff but here are some highlights anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llojly5kUqQ

Dude give [Opp] a break, clearly their guild name was meant to be ironic. Like people who give their fat friend the nickname “tiny” I hear their guild leader’s nickname is
Sir Robbin The Brave.

Here’s Opp’s latest fight against the ambient creatures of JQBL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ

I heard oPP are xferring to JQ soon anyway :/

Only for the right price. If you ask how much it will cost, then you can’t afford us.

What is a Z-j exactly?

Fun match-up this week so far; thanks for all the good competition!

Agreed with OP!

Rifle is a terrible 1v1 build, but is something I run often as a troll build in wvw as watching unsuspecting individuals drop from killshot is hillarious (30/10/0/0/30 - take +15% dmg and +15% crit - rest is all preference). I stream it regularly on http://twitch.tv/teamriottv and I also have a couple highlights of it on my own stream; http://twitch.tv/docmedb2e.

As far as builds; you will get destroyed by anything with condi and it is not good for spvp. Fun in WvW though. For extra lol’s I’ll run Axe/Mace + Rifle in WvW w/ signet of fury and surge heal. You can basically snipe, go in melee, evis, and then immediately swap back to rifle and snipe (killshot) again or vice versa. But again, get focused, and you almost die immediately. You can swap into sword/shield for a bit of mobility and a block as well on your offset.

Shifty.4985:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

docMed.7692:

Oh zerg on zerg rage… /snooze.

Sounds like you guys chose the wrong tier to transfer to then, eh?

RIOT have been on BG for quite sometime..

Not to mention I’ve personally been on BG long before purchased transfers existed ><.

All I was trying to allude to anyways is what we all already know; ZvZ just boils down in the end to #‘s and coverage. Some Z’s may be better than others, but it would be impossible to know really. No need to get snippy or argue over it.

This thread still going!?

Oh zerg on zerg rage... /snooze.

Dasboba.1652:

I know the title of the thread is supposed to sarcastic, but it’s actually true. I play on JQ and have fought these guys many times and they’re top notch. Sure, they’ll gang up on stragglers (who doesn’t?), but they’ll also fight you with even numbers and even outnumbered unlike alot of their server mates.

That’s awfully nice of you to say. Truth be told most of the time our goals consist of finding good, fun, and challenging matches. Often that means we’ll leave 1v1 fights alone, try to have even matches, etc; but many of us also live by “if it’s red, it’s dead” so it really all just depends on the mood you catch us in and whether or not the allure of WXP takes over our logic.

Hamham.7504:

I have found undeniable proof that RIOT and friends are zerglings of the highest calibre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRcgqe1t0GE

Ah the deceit, the horror, the tragedy; say it ain’t so!

Oh man... Apparently I’m.. # 1? I feel so honored!

Don’t mind me... just sitting in the back.. kill shottin’.

Hey Dev’s,

A while ago it was mentioned that "Guild Wars 2 style raiding" was coming in multiple ANet interviews. It seems pretty obvious to me that the revamp to Tequatl is one of the first steps in this process. Can you confirm this and/or elaborate the direction this may continue to head in other than just "World boss revamps"?

Also, are there any plans to formalize a process for groups to get together and into consistent servers? The Tequatl revamp is something I’ve personally been looking forward to (and enjoyed thus far) and I think it’s obviously more than capable to be accomplished with an organized group, but the main issue of course the uncertainty of the spawn timer and pooling persons together all on the same server. Maybe a formalized queue system would be a good idea and/or (dare I say) raid instances? The mechanics are there, the player desire is too - specific achieves, hard modes, and cosmetic rewards would be more than enough to drive people to them (at least it would be for me and many of my community friends). Also, the entirely open-world model wouldn’t have to be abandoned and it would be cool to have both open-world community bosses to take down and instanced based encounters that would encourage some fun coordination with your guildies and offer that sense of guild accomplishment that I think guild missions originally intended to do, but missed the mark on. I like the idea of world content and working with your community (even if most are strangers) but that tight-knit group atmosphere would also be welcome on a smaller scale (10-20 persons?).

Thanks for your consideration and if these questions have already been addressed than I apologize in advance!

swiftpaw.6397:

+1 Swiftpaw best troll NA.

This.

Sorrow.7384:

dabomb.4056:

cyyrix.6105:

Boulderbolg.3460:

Boulderbolg.3460:

CrowndClown.1702:

Boulderbolg.3460:

So is JQ and TC’s strategy tonight to ignore Blood Lust caps? This is seriously boring. I want SoR back. At least they put up a fight.

I was farming Riot this morning. You should wake up earlier.

How about you come farm us now that we have more than 3 people on?

http://www.twitch.tv/docmedb2e/c/2975613
http://www.twitch.tv/docmedb2e/c/2975721
http://www.twitch.tv/docmedb2e/c/2975783

Good fights. Thank you, NS.

In before orb qq.

Seriously though, thanks NS. Some of the best fights we’ve had in awhile.

lol, why split the video to 3 parts?
Where’s the recorded live stream? Did ya cut out some undesirable parts?

Those are called highlights. You make them on twitch in order to save them for life. I believe this is the full stream: http://www.twitch.tv/docmedb2e/b/464073417 I’m not going to go through the full 6 hours to make sure, but you feel free to do so.

Ya, in hindsight I should have obviously just linked the full 6 hours and told everyone it’s their job to find all the fights… Wasn’t there a NS stream going too… I think that recording was deleted… lol.

slausty.1238:

Fun roaming tonight, keep up the small havoc squads! Great fight at Orchard with Riot + others earlier (Hi to the rifle Riot warrior…..nice underwater rez :P).

~ VwV roaming necro w/friends.

Sup

docMed.7692:

First off, awesome that you guys are being so transparent. Although some people will still ream/attack you guys for “pending” changes, I think the larger part of the community will greatly appreciate it.

Most of these changes are pretty awesome and I’m looking forward to reading over how you exactly implement them. Here are my thoughts on some of the areas that could use some addressing:

---

Better fast cast ground targeting:
We split this into 3 different options; so that players can more easily cater how ground targeting works for them.

1. Double tap to cast
2. Press the button to cast
3. Release the button to cast
   SO GET YO CAST ON!

Cool to see some more options here. One concern I have with fast cast though is that while I’m ok with not previewing my cast, certain abilities like blink and shortbow #5 are tough to figure out your exact range. It comes down to; I want to blink as fast as possible because often it is an ability used in a dire situation, but I also need to ensure that I can identify the appropriate range. Games like League of Legends implement a system where if you cast abilities outside of their max range, the ability will still go off and act as if the user selected the max range for this ability. Can this same concept to skills like blink be applied and added as an option? It’s quite frustrating to die because I wasn’t able to quickly guess the max range needed on a blink or shortbow #5 and only met with an invalid response in red text.

Just trying to keep in touch with 99% of the individuals upset with this patch.

…with little to no effort, else I will rage post all over your forums.

Poor RH ><

Resolved:

Bug-fixes, Balance, and World Polish

Fixed a bug that allowed players to kill some allied NPCs that should not be killed.

Living World

Fixed a Spanish localization issue for the Scarlet’s Playhouse instance.

PvP

Fixed a bug which could cause secondary objectives to remove the markers of allied players from the map.

General

After a game update, players will be allowed to remain in public maps associated with the previous build for up to one hour.

Something I miss? No notes, no posts, reddit empty, etc? What was patched other than maybe maintenance?

WvW thief is one of the most unforgiving and also most rewarding things to do in the game. I run a 0/30/20/20/0 build and often stream it @ twitch.tv/dntgw2 (my build is also under the stream). I don’t claim to be an expert (although I consider myself above average), but it is heavily skill based against other thieves (very tight timings on abilities) and you may pick up a thing or two watching my stream, as well as myself as I feel I still am learning some new tricks as I get more and more comfortable with it (I have over 300 hours played, 2500 in general, so my experience on thief has been primarily wvw and pvp focused (I rarely dungeon with him)). I also stream a similar/modified build in soloQ pvp.

** Edit ** there should be some videos up at the moment featuring some solo thief roaming. Not to mention if you youtube any RIOT videos, they often have some good guides/demo’s up on the current wvw meta.

I personally encourage and welcome more hardcore dungeon guilds; the bigger the community the better!

swiftpaw.6397:

Syn Sity.5826:

swiftpaw.6397:

Dempsey doesn’t mind me taking ele, he just grumbles about it :P

Doesn’t that say enough…?

Not really. He may not agree with me on some things but that is no cause for hostilities. Sure he didn’t like me at first but I never let it get to me. Turns out he’s a nice guy.

Funny thing is; we (DnT) all have ele’s (most are full ascended/scholar runes) and are always open to anyone bringing them. Our latest group compositions for our full dungeon tour cycles usually consists of 1-2 thieves, 1-2 wars, 1 ele, a mesmer occassionally, and a guardian. Our goals consist of firefields for stacking might and maintaining vul. If we accomplish that, our runs are perfectly fast and that is good enough for us. We will, however, optimize groups when going for speed clear records, etc, which in-turn will make our composition vary based on encounters, time to setup pulls and buffs, etc. There are some great things Ele’s can do (LOS stack to firery greatsword, firery greatsword and/or icebow burst down physical objects), but overall DPS seems to be quite comprable elsewise and evolved destroyer in particular seems to run about the same for us whether we bring more ele’s, more thieves, or more wars; but I don’t think many of our groups have really tried to setup and all out burst this guy down.

It still goes 60, 20, 10, 5, 1. Maybe given that there are now champ loot rewards w/ rares/exotics they wanted to limit some of the cosmetic side of the dungeons and make them more exclusive? When you think about it, in hindsight those sets should take some time to farm and with this current system (180 tokens on 1st clears of each path a day), a full set can easily be made up in a little over a week rather than just a day of alt/swapping 6 minute runs. Considering a full dungeon cycle takes rought 6 1/2 hours; you should explore them and stop QQ’ing that your cosmetics (which you probably have all you want by now) and ecto conversion rate was slightly nerfed.

colesy.8490:

Right, and since most encounters don’t let them, their DPS is subpar.

Mesmers are getting shafted more in the dungeon meta for guardians if reflects are required.

Well, I took the thread as “highest dps” and then threw my caveat of also “highest dps while providing utility”. As far as encounters go, I assumed free encounters as most dungeons and fractals can vary significantly in ideal group make-ups, tactics, etc. I agree though, adding feasability to the list would change it up quite a bit.

Marrond.1385:

Brazil trolling 7/10. You can do better.

If you read it with Eugene’s voice you’ll find it’s at least 9/10.

Mesmer’s can pump great dps if they can keep their phanatasms up. Main issue is most encounters don’t allow them to.

Shinya.8014:

docMed.7692:

Ah, fun thread; let it begin. Best way to look at it is by fight type;

Single Target DPS:
Thief
Warrior
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer
Necromancer
Engineer

AoE Target DPS:
Elementalist ** especially with firery greatsword; LH is equiv to Warrior
Warrior
Thief
Guardian
Ranger
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer

Short Boss Fight:
Thief
Elementalist
Warrior
Ranger
Guardian
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer

Long Boss Fight:
Thief
Warrior
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer
Necromancer
Engineer

wow. You really dont know what you’re talking about putting the engineer in the bottom of everything. Play one before you judge them

I love how this part of my post gets compeltely ignored;

"** Might also add; these are with ideal builds considered (such as a hybrid zerk guardian and/or AH, etc; or utility/dps mesmer build, etc). If we were to discuss this on simply how much damage can these classes put out without considering group benefits/bringing might, blast finishers, fire fields, etc; this conversation would probably vary a bit and consequently so would my list."

Given the condition damage associated with engineers output, there are also issues here in general when comparing dungeon dps specs (see physical objects, condition caps, etc). Also, I do only have a lvl 70 engi and have only experienced much of their potential on a pvp setting (somewhere around 150+ games played on them). I also never said "how worse they are" nor said my list was the end all be all, in fact my post begins with "let it begin [i.e. the debate]"; realistically they [engineers] probably put out significantly more DPS than a mesmer in a utility spec. I’m not close minded and am always happy to check out video evidence of DPS or spreadsheets to contradict any thoughts I may have, but if you simply want to make broad generalizations and assumptions than there’s not much wiggle room left in a discussion here.

swiftpaw.6397:

colesy.8490:

^since when were you in DnT? :O

Idk like just now O_O

She bakes cookies for us; instant-win and ginvite.

Dub.1273:

docMed.7692:

Ah, fun thread; let it begin. Best way to look at it is by fight type;

Single Target DPS:
Thief
Warrior
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer
Necromancer
Engineer

AoE Target DPS:
Elementalist ** especially with firery greatsword; LH is equiv to Warrior
Warrior
Thief
Guardian
Ranger
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer

Short Boss Fight:
Thief
Elementalist
Warrior
Ranger
Guardian
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer

Long Boss Fight:
Thief
Warrior
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer
Necromancer
Engineer

** Might also add; these are with ideal builds considered (such as a hybrid zerk guardian and/or AH, etc; or utility/dps mesmer build, etc). If we were to discuss this on simply how much damage can these classes put out without considering group benefits/bringing might, blast finishers, fire fields, etc; this conversation would probably vary a bit and consequently so would my list.

Lots of wrongs here. For example, an Ele with LH has a 1.6 damage amplifier, a warrior with axe just a 1.05*1.03*1.03 (considering 3 boons) multiplifier, considering30/0/0/10/30.
Also, LH has stronger coefficient/time than axe autoattacks.

They also have completely different power coefficients and attack speeds and possibly weapon sets to consider too. Take it with a grain of salt either way, neither of us actually have solid figures here; these are simply mine and your opinions on what we’ve run and experienced in the game thus far. Give me a spreadsheet though with full calcs and I’d happily sing the tune of whatever is the highest DPS.

Nikaido.3457:

docMed.7692:

AoE Target DPS:
Elementalist ** especially with firery greatsword; LH is equiv to Warrior

LH third hit (the hardest hitting one) is a true AoE that can hit 5 mob at once and it’s the one that also applies blinds.
Ele defintively have stronger AoE dps than warriors. (sustained dps, not burst. Warriors have frenzy..)

Very few 5 count trash packs that I can think of off a normal dungeon rotation that appear on a consistant basis, but yea, there’s definitely room for argument here. Like the caveats mentioned below, this is considering rotations necessary to maintain stacks, vuls, group compositions, etc. Not to mention LH attacks are considerably slower. Personally I’ve run my full ascended/scholar rune ele a bunch, along with many of our guildies, and find the DPS a bit lacking without ideal compisitions and the ramp up itself is rather slow between re-equpping hammers, conjuring, fire fields, ensuring water swapping timing, etc along with the fact that most trash packs are dead rather quickly.

Ah, fun thread; let it begin. Best way to look at it is by fight type;

Single Target DPS:
Thief
Warrior
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer
Necromancer
Engineer

AoE Target DPS:
Elementalist ** especially with firery greatsword; LH is equiv to Warrior
Warrior
Thief
Guardian
Ranger
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer

Short Boss Fight:
Thief
Elementalist
Warrior
Ranger
Guardian
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer

Long Boss Fight:
Thief
Warrior
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer
Necromancer
Engineer

** Might also add; these are with ideal builds considered (such as a hybrid zerk guardian and/or AH, etc; or utility/dps mesmer build, etc). If we were to discuss this on simply how much damage can these classes put out without considering group benefits/bringing might, blast finishers, fire fields, etc; this conversation would probably vary a bit and consequently so would my list.

A "hard mode"? Sweet!

Obal’s one of my fav. guards for any run we do, +1.