Guild Wars 2

There were a lot of times I wanted to take Trickster when I invested into the Trickery line but Bountiful is more practical on S/P for sure, if I wanted Trickster I had to then drop a Grandmaster (which Is fine). You’ll drop Trickster down, but then it competes with Thrill of the crime (at least for me), which is better granted we can get Fury from Furious Retaliation, so it will be picked more, but it would still be helpful if there was some kind of utility boon strip (or better Sigil of Null), so Bountiful could be dropped for the same reasons I can drop Thrill because I have Furious Retal.

Building off this train of thought.

There isn’t really any room for boon removal in current “Trick” skills outside of Scorpion Wire. If you can guys can find someone way to fit it in there, maybe as a pbaoe chain skill of Scorpion wire, or something then Trickster could definitely find itself being picked over Bountiful Theft.

JonPeters.5630:

This would just be a buff to pistol whip, with the one caveat that you wouldn’t be able to animation cancel and chain stun.

It would let you do things like use part one, then do some attacks then immobilize target, then use the flurry when they are immobilized. It just opens up skill choice on that weapon.

Im aware of what you’re trying to do, I’m just not a fan of the direction. I feel that PW design is fine as it is has been as a single skill.
What I found most problematic playing S/P before was 1) The amount of retaliation damage that can proc in a team fight 2) If you want to get past Stability/Retal you pretty much need Bountiful due to Sigil of Nullification not being a valid option and there being nothing else in another trait line or Utility skill to alleviate that. If you don’t mind them then sure you can ignore Bountiful. We can take Dev venom as an emergency fix to get around Stability kiting but out of luck on retal, until you open up some options sometime down the road. This is from an offensive (zerker/soldier) standpoint though. I mean sure, IA into Flurry will become an option, one you really don’t need to give, given you actually have given us a lot of tools to cling to opponents if we want to, but its your call.

There were a lot of times I wanted to take Trickster when I invested into the Trickery line but Bountiful is more practical on S/P for sure, if I wanted Trickster I had to then drop a Grandmaster (which Is fine). You’ll drop Trickster down, but then it competes with Thrill of the crime (at least for me), which is better granted we can get Fury from Furious Retaliation, so it will be picked more, but it would still be helpful if there was some kind of utility boon strip (or better Sigil of Null), so Bountiful could be dropped for the same reasons I can drop Thrill because I have Furious Retal.

Moving away from that. Is anything being done on Potent poison? I feel it doesn’t really fit in anywhere, and I never hear anyone at Anet mention it. Black sheep trait?

If they’re going to make everything and it’s mother a flipping chain skill they might as well go to a cooldown system. Inb4 Infiltrator’s arrow is a chain skill where you blind on the shot and warp later.
Yes bitter.

JonPeters.5630:

We are thinking about making it into two skills that both cost initiative so we can balance the while thing more easily. For example this would let us increase the stun duration.

What no. Not my Pistol Whip.
Why can’t your team just handle skills as they are?
There is not much different in PW’s core from Hundred Blades, Zealots defense, and Blurred Frenzy but you need to split it in two? What?
Sure sometimes reworks need to be done but I dont think this is the case at all.

Whole thing with Initiative was a global resource to use skills as you need them. The More you split skills the more silly it becomes for the initiative system as I feel for it. If its the case you might as well give the Thief CD’s instead of ini if this is going to be a frequent addition.

Maybe I’ve misread you guys , how do you want S/P to play as a weapon set as it seems to differ from how I feel about it. I thought “Hit & run strong damage that doesn’t get blown up while doing that damage”, and brings significant disruption relative to S/D which is a more defensive kit that weakens (boon steal, cripple, vulnerability) a target while having some of the disable of S/P (tactical strike).
You want to make it just a heavy CC kit?

S/P can already safe stomp with Black Powder, however a Cast time on Inf strike will be a significant hit to the defenses of that weapon set.
Can you make a cast time work on Inf strike? I believe so but not just throwing it on like that. Have to consider how you want the Sword thief to play not just defensively but offensively, if it is hit and run, what kind of damage output the Thief is doing before they “run” and how long they should be in the field before they run.

Combat is volatile because there is a lot of essentially guaranteed damage.

“Water I – Aquamancer’s Alacrity. Moved to Master tier.”
Not a good idea hombre.

Thedenofsin.7340:

ensoriki.5789:

All you have to do is drop 10% of health, why are people tripping?

If Necromancers had a trait that made them immune to direct damage until you dealt condition damage equal to 10% of their hp, you wouldn’t complain?

Considering Many weapon sets deal literally Zero condition damage yes.
The fact that many condition sets deal power damage is a stark difference.
Or Is D/P, S/D, S/P, thief,
GS, Mace, Axe, Hammer, warrior gonna suddenly conjure up a damage type on their weapons they dont have.
It’s not actual immunity in that every weapon that deals conditions also deals Power.
How much your weapon set is affected depends on how you spec, which is quite different from Your weapon set literally doing nothing.
Then again Power specs also dealt with Endure Pain and Protect me for eons before Berserker stance came on the front.
Ty.

Just don’t make your build narrow.
As far as Meta goes, if the build doesn’t take off it wont matter. If it does, then you start to either hybridize, rotate a power spec, or focus and it becomes irrelevant.

All you have to do is drop 10% of health, why are people tripping?

shimmerless.4560:

Trickery burst is quite high and certainly the highest of any spec that sees play.

It’s lower than the previous 25/30/x/x/15 which is what I’m speaking towards. DA investment is going to be a bit more attractive now, so thieves may consider returning to it for their D/P.

@big Oh im not saying it will function on stun, im saying they may look at making it due so with the cast time later on when they look back at the results.
I don’t read every thread last I recall you put something about it requiring LoS or w/e which frankly I feel would actually be garbage.

D/P trickery is lower on the damage spectrum for Thief burst. Given the initiative regen changes, DA investment builds are going to be more flexible due to heightened regen. Which certainly doesn’t work against dagger builds, considering DA gives them special attention. Though I don’t know why you’d speak specifically about trickery D/P. Thieves may end up rolling back to DA investment.

I didn’t include something because I wanted to see how it goes however might as well.
In a couple other settings a skill like Inf strike even with a cast time and well while it no longer stuns breaks it does still currently function under a stun.
Having the cast time is fine, they may have to down the line consider letting it function while stunned.
Tbh I do feel you are over exaggerating a tad however Big.

In real tea, I don’t think by itself a cast time on Sreturn = wrecked beyond belief. However I think just adding a cast time on it as both Sword sets currently are (excusing PW’s current issue), is problematic for how the sets are. Infiltrator’s Strike is the Swords identity.

Copypasta-ing
My thoughts are this, the sword is a hit & run/in & out weapon set at its base, it’s what connects S/D and S/P on a frequent level. Infiltrator’s strike is the Swords identity.
I feel atm, Thief would be better off molding the two Sword sets with that in mind. So I propose changes to Infiltrator’s strike

1. Keep that idea of a cast time on Shadow return, that can work.
2. Reduce the duration of Infiltration to 6 or 7 seconds.
3. Increase the power co-efficient of Infiltrator’s Strike, consider removing/reducing the immobilize (consider)
4. Revert the range 1200 range limitation on Shadow return.

With that in mind these two changes to the off hands
1. Increase the velocity of the Dancing dagger projectile so it’s a more reliable snare
2. Have Black Powder, as a ground-target, strengthening it as a support skill.
3. Increase the duration of Cloak and Daggers vulnerability.

Infiltration lasts long, it allows you ample time to commit to a fight while having an escape. Reducing it gives you time to fight, but you have to then decide if you’re going to use your initiative to pop out, or if you are going to stay in and lose the escape. With half the duration, that becomes more of a reality, with half the duration the distance you travel from the return point significantly decreases meaning the 1200 range limit is not necessary, especially given the cast time. To put S/x as a hit & run set, it needs damage to stay as that threat on the outskirts, it has it to be sure but with a shorter infiltration time it’s flexibility in doing that damage decreases. For example dodging 3 times takes a sizeable amount of time from your infiltration duration if infiltration is only 6 or 7 seconds.

For the Off-hands. Changing Black Powder puts that in a much more supportive position, For all 3 /P sets. Given typically (well excusing D/P) that /P sets do not stealth naturally, a defense against ranged assault is really necessary unless they put out ridiculous counter-damage. The one-tick shot isn’t a real deterrent at the same time, its simple enough to take advantage of.

Dancing dagger just isn’t reliable enough of a snare to start. If stripping the immobilization of Inf strike is considered in exchange for that skill doing more damage, the distinction is that S/D excels at sticking at targets to targets relative to S/P because of that /D choice as well as defensively due to FS and CnD. S/P of course in exchange would be potent at disabling opponents (ground target Black powder, the lovely head shot, and some PW stun) and shredding them if it does get its hands on them (PW).

I think that is really emphasizing weapon set identity while playing to the class profession identity that was given last year if they still are valid for discussion. S/x does heavy damage when it pops in (inf strike hitting harder + normal rotations), but it’s not in for long or its forced to stay.

Finally, you guys did some great stuff with traits but…what about potent poison? Seriously? Sharp, lettuce be cereal who runs Potent poison in general? I assume the PW change gets 2-3 hits. If the slashes start .25s faster then at least one slash should connect but I dont think the gap is .25s so maybe its two slashes? Imo again the identity of a weapon set, HB hits really hard but wants set up and there are many things in the Warriors weapon sets themselves that set that up. All that really sets up PW is Surprise shot, Which at mimimum means you can do that once every 20s (due to weapon swap cooldowns). Decide for yourselves man should PW set itself up or should something else sit it up? If something else sets it up, is that something else in the thief kit or your allies? I presume with the new SoP if you take that you can also draw even, currently its about ~1s to get your slashes, it would now be ~.75, the stun is .5s, SoP can give you some additional duration. It may work out, I don’t want to be super critical on that because I am not pulling out a stop watch again, so I’ll just wait and see.

About the Sword Identity that I mentioned earlier

My thoughts are this, the sword is a hit & run/in & out weapon set at its base, it’s what connects S/D and S/P on a frequent level. Infiltrator’s strike is the Swords identity.

I feel atm, Thief would be better off molding the sets with that in mind. So I propose changes to Infiltrator’s strike
1. Keep that idea of a cast time on Shadow return, it can be fine.
2. Reduce the duration of Infiltration to 6 or 7 seconds.
3. Increase the power co-efficient of Infiltrator’s Strike, consider removing/reducing the immobilize (consider)
4. Revert the range 1200 range limitation on Shadow return.

With that in mind these two changes to the off hands
1. Increase the velocity of the Dancing dagger projectile so it’s a more reliable snare
2. Have Black Powder, as a ground-target, strengthening it as a support skill.
3. Increase the duration of Cloak and Daggers vulnerability.

Infiltration lasts long, it allows you ample time to commit to a fight while having an escape. Reducing it gives you time to fight, but you have to then decide if you’re going to use your initiative to pop out, or if you are going to stay in and lose the escape. With half the duration, that becomes more of a reality, with half the duration the distance you travel from the return point significantly decreases meaning the 1200 range limit is not necessary, especially given the cast time. To put S/x as a hit & run set, it needs damage to stay as that threat on the outskirts, it has it to be sure but with a shorter infiltration time it’s flexibility in doing that damage decreases. For example dodging 3 times takes a sizeable amount of time from your infiltration duration if infiltration is only 6 or 7 seconds.

For the Off-hands. Changing Black Powder puts that in a much more supportive position, For all 3 /P sets. Given typically (well excusing D/P) that /P sets do not stealth naturally, a defense against ranged assault is really necessary unless they put out ridiculous counter-damage. The one-tick shot isn’t a real deterrent at the same time, its simple enough to take advantage of.

Dancing dagger just isn’t reliable enough of a snare to start. If stripping the immobilization of Inf strike is considered in exchange for that skill doing more damage, the distinction is that S/D excels at sticking at targets to targets relative to S/P because of that /D choice as well as defensively due to FS and CnD. S/P of course in exchange would be potent at disabling opponents (ground target Black powder, the lovely head shot, and some PW stun) and shredding them if it does get its hands on them (PW).

I think that is really emphasizing weapon set identity while playing to the class profession identity that was given last year if they still are valid for discussion.

Finally, you guys did some great stuff with traits but…what about potent poison? Seriously?

Peters the Thief changes actually look very solid, specifically the reduction on ini regen traits but the increase in the base regen rate.

I think there should be more consideration to the Sword in terms of its identity with Inf strike (not disagreeing with the cast time addition) as a hit & run set.

“Guild Ball” (as a concept)
2 Goal points.
1 Orb.
5v5.
———————————————
-/////////////////////////-
-////////////////////////B-
-0//////////x///////////0-
-A////////////////////////-
-/////////////////////////-
——————————————-
^ Base idea of a maps features.
A = A team spawn
B = B team spawn
0 = Goal point
x= Orb spawn point

Objective: Run orb into goal point. 7 goals = win.

-thoughts-
The base objective is very simple but the execution need not be.
Through map design, concepts such as choke-points can make certain skills such as wards, marks, traps (Thieves too), and turrets more or less effective.
It’s an easy candidate for map effects like glass floors, where immobilizes, stuns and knockbacks can be used to drop the carrier or for the carrier to use to their advantage.
Additional mechanics like NPC defenders, Buff NPC’s, resurrection orbs, underwater passageways and seige weaponry can also be included. Really anything can be added or twisted, maps can be asymmetrical but the main idea is a goal area for each team, and a spawn point for the Orb.

The orb: As I see it, the Orb could go two ways
A) Own skillset,stat & trait set disabling profession mechanic.
b) Professions skillset, stat & trait set, keeping profession mechanic
I think A) is the most solid, but b) might be possible.
An example skillset of A) would be
1. Shoot ~ Shoots an ether projectile
2. Charge ~ Dash forward, stunning the next enemy you hit.
3. Forceful blow ~ A wide swing that launches foes.
4. Strength of the Orb ~ Lose two conditions, and gain swiftness
5. Last stand ~ Gain 600 Toughness and Regen.
Without a heal or a way of dropping it, the Orb Carrier is commited to it, and has to be supported by their team generally until they are downed or score. Orb should respawn if it goes out of bounds (eg falling on Skyhammer) or if you bring it to a reset area (your base, so you can’t hide inside it).

Using an existing map just to convey the concept . Take Foefire as a visual , replace the Lord with a goal point, the enemy team would have to run the orb into that point, with graveyard being the spawn point. That means busting through the gates and getting all the way to the end. With the enemy team being able to reset the orb by running into their spawn point with it, if they get the chance to quickly snag it. After the goal is scored the gates are repaired and teams are sent back to their base to go again until 7 points are scored.

What if someone trolls with the Orb?
Holding the orb reduces Endurance regeneration 50% from the start, and weakness works on top of that. Additional effects could be added on top of this if necessary, but if the Orb gives you preset ability and stats this probably wont be a big issue. Perhaps something like if an Orb is held for 5 minutes by an individual player, his team gains 1 point and the map resets.

Possible comps.
Portal and Shadow trap are potent because they let you to get back to position. If they reset the orb, you don’t want your whole team stuck in their base while they’re sending someone to the orb spawn point. A Portal or Shadow trap allows you to get yourself or team out of there. Skills like Swirling winds and Sanctuary mean allowing your carrier to have an easier time getting to the goal or allowing them to pick it up.

The orb in its spawn point would have to be channeled (as I see it) for say 2 seconds. Since you have to push into their base, even if they do reach the orb first, they still technically have to get past you, so who gets the orb first isn’t necessarily a case of who will score first.
Respawn timers would be individual so not to make pushing needlessly cumbersome when 5 people jump out of the gate all the same time

Lol @ 13-16.
Back to Smite where I see less horse kitten balance from the community, and the devs are rather punctual with their balance.
Im still estimating 3-4 months before S/P being the worst set in-game gets remedied, maybe a year if OP has his way, and S/D can fall even lower then it did after the Nov nerfs last year. Viva diversity.
What a joke.

GW2 isn’t a pvp game (yet?).

I believe this is called bombing run (but dont want to be mistaken)
Will pop in to suggest a look at this videos as some sort of inspiration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kla6CUDwqH0 ~ your own keg brawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWUGIWMMdds ~ The reverse idea. Pushing the primary objective into their base instead of bring it back to your own. The “energy” bar decreases passively for the ball carrier instead of steadily replenishing, resulting in them being more vulnerable to assault and requiring protection.
Or a couple of sports with a similar premise; Soccer, football, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, handball push the objective towards them, not away from them.

Why would I think this works?
GW2 has a lot of emphasis on area, from skills like marks, traps or wards or denial effects like Swirling Winds and smokescreen. Like Football controlling space is important and GW2 has tools for that on every profession to start. As well while Keg brawl isn’t really defined it to me says that GW2 can support that particular style of play, however bringing the objective back to your base is kind fairly easy given the tools available. To push forward towards threat instead of away from it puts more pressure on the runners and requires a team be used as well. Finally you can have multiple roles.

Oh and From a FA side I liked playing Luxon and breaking into the base to kill the 3 architects. Something about infiltrating their space is pretty fun.

S/P thief worst weapon set until further notice.

Outstanding.1284:

Its actually a 1/4 second which is just stupid tbh made the skill worthless now in my eyes but ty for your reply wish they would clarify it in patch notes

It still functions as an interrupt which is it’s main purpose.
If you want to see broke look at PW.

Impractical, and awkward given the small pool of professions.
If this were a game with 40 professions, then clauses or bans would work well.
For example how do you fit this in the solo que? You don’t. 3 Thieves up in a que and the game explodes?

You should be able to drop your conjure and pick it up with the charges it had before you dropped it.
I mean hell you can drop a banner by weapon swapping.

I think the Fire shield itself is fine. I feel
1) The fireshield on the focus has a redonkulus cooldown time
2) The aura related traits may be lacking?
3) It’s somewhat problematic to take signets.

Im a fan of written in stone + Signet shields, but doesn’t work too well for me.

I think it comes down to 3) though.

I could take a Pistol/Pistol for Unload.
Or I could roll Mesmer take /P and have it use Illusionary Unload which is only 5% weaker but has the same amount of hits. Meanwhile I’ll have greater in-combat mobility as a Mesmer due to Illusionary leap and because Mesmer uses Cooldowns instead of initiative, using that Illusionary Unload won’t take anything away from my ability to defend myself.

P/P recently got a buff so it’s not right of me to be super critical this early on, but that’s part of my qualm from it before patch. I could take a Mesmer to accomplish the same attack without trading defense.

Staying out of a pbaoe field might help.

Guardian is the best choice. See guardian forums for aid.
Regardless of everything this is one class that has been relevant without doubt throughout all of pvp.

You can certainly take the role of a bunker if the group needs it, but you will not be very proficient in it you can certainly stay alive via stealth or even some evades but these can work against the idea of holding a point.

I think the “no trinity” is twisted a bit. You can DPS, and you can support, just fine as a thief, you can hold nodes but only for short bursts of time. So in an emergency you can bunker but you can’t do it fulltime well.

Mrbig.8019:

after testing it, i can say S/D rocks with venom share

You’re even able to deal very good damage.

I was seriously overvaluating S/P, it really, REALLY sux now.[/quote]
I wouldn’t try to lead you astray, much as I love S/P.

Amaterasu, I was thinking P/D would also be effective. If I recall D/P + P/D venom share with thieves guild used to be run late beta and early launch. Might be the time for it to reappear.

I’ve never checked but it’s possible Basilisk also counted under the rounding system of stuns, which meant it was 2 seconds that would explain the 1.5 duration. If that is the case with stuns no longer rounding up, it would be .5 seconds shorter.

baylock.1703:

ok now explane me how its useless beacose I play mesmer and I use blurred frenzy every day without eny stun or immobilize and do it very effectevly and blurred frenzy is just weaker werison of pistolwhip without eny stun.? explane

Blurred Frenzy has total evade frames, and comes out near instantly.
Pistol whip takes 0.5 seconds before it even hits, and then takes an additional 0.3-0.5 seconds (between those two) before it starts evading. Meaning as an defense it is weaker than blurred frenzy because it takes longer to start defending, and as an attack it does more damage but that damage is harder to land because your opponent has greater time to dodge, block and so forth.

Why did you just change your method of delivering your argument half way?

The Engi rifle immob is a giant net flying at you.. Throw bolas is a flying string thing… If a Warrior has LB out you know they want to hit you with Pin Down, etc.

You start with the animation of net shot, Throw bolas and then change to if theres a longbow out. There’s a stark contrast there. Which isn’t to attack warriors, but you’re trying to reinforce a point by using something at odds with it.

I actually don’t think you’re on the same topic as me. You’re mentioning hard CC locking but CC has not stacked in GW2. If you’re talking about the previous War situation that’s a seperate thing.

Once again; If we CC stack so that a 1 second stun/knockback/ had it’s duration increased by another subsequent one to 2 seconds for example we’d be reducing the level of conscious play to achieve optimal shutdown time on a powerful state in the game. It’s what has been done with immobilize, you can feel it’s fine, I feel it puts the game backwards from the level it wants to be at. It’s no skin off my back, as I don’t take GW2 very seriously, and others who are against it may do so but why would you decrease the level of thought put into a strategy when it’s not even particularly difficult on a basic level. Someone said it before it justs “Dumbs down” the game, games shouldn’t be unnecessarily complex, but immobilize wasn’t complex to begin with, so it’s in poor judgement to me to take this route.

I don’t recall claiming an issue with the level of evasion in the game or being able to land a hit (until Pistol whip was nerfed, but they’ve already said they’ll address that) to justify immobilize stacking. A thief could prior to patch get 12+s of immobilize on an individual if they wanted to (but there were more appealing options) through chaining his immobilizes to prevent overlap without just throwing them out. Even above decreasing the level of thought, on a base level when condition removal is not a factor it just makes it easier to compact your damage as you don’t have to decrease damage output to maximize support. Kind of increases the level of spam you’ll do in the game.
Eg, devourer venom optimal use? attack once, wait ~2s, hit again, maximize CC to ~4 seconds (without residual venom) thats 4s of lock for your team on an individual. If you just hit twice you’d reduce the effect, getting more damage in but locking them down for less time. Now you get maximum benefit while still being able to get your maximum damage in that timeframe.
Chaining immobilize will still be useful, just much more rarely and given as I’ve seen the amount of players who care to begin with, it’ll appear even less so in ideal situations because the game doesn’t have enough people who would care to do so.

tl;dr: It’s Anets game and they can do what they want, but why would they decrease the thought process on something that didn’t require a hefty amount to begin with?

google.3709:

thinking about it, immobilize stacking is not even a PvP related change, it was probably done for PvE since immobilizes meant nothing on bosses and champs, since it would get replaced and cleared instantly

That only reduces the quality of strong PvE team work though.
In this other MMO I am playing, That CC in PvE would have diminishing returns, which prevents everyone from spamming their CC and makes the encounters more thought out. I don’t find this a negative experience at all, so from a PvE standpoint I don’t know why PvE players would.

Immobilize isn’t hard to deal with, it’s just kind of backwards progression.
Afterall we could say hard CC stacking solves evade spam, lack of burst, so on and so forth, but if hard CC stacked you’d progress the game backwards on a conscious level.
I don’t think this a casual change either, I am not well invested in GW2 and play other games. Immobilizes and CC don’t stack where I choose to roam, but I can still co-ordinate with other individuals to lengthen the amount of time someone is shutdown.
GW2 just decreased the value in timing (while it is not completely removed).

^ I’ll take this for five thousand.
If we’re talking about it being weird for immobilize not to stack, is Stun stacking next?
CC doesn’t stack which means for full benefit of multiple stuns you co-ordinate it, to get the most duration out of it. This change just decreased co-ordination in the game, and not on some micro level like if cripple never stacked and they made it stack, we’re talking far more potent CC then that. The kind you want to be powerful but reach it’s greatest potential when used in unison, not thrown out. Now It’s still at it’s strongest the vast majority of the time when co-ordinated, but is now even more effective than normal when it is now, and why was that change made? Immobilizes stacking was not an issue of casual appeal.

It somewhat makes it easier for builds without a lot of cleanse (but some cleanse)
due to player thinking. Throwing all your immobilize on a target makes it easier to cleanse all your immobilize, Chaining your immobilize consecutively makes it harder to cleanse.
If you have no condi removal at all, it’ll definitely suck but at the same time a teammate can also cleanse you and end up reducing all their effort.
It does make the use of immobilize easier, but with how people are in love with this change it sounds like they’re throwing all their eggs in one basket.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

It was a high priority issue that was not known prior to the patch. However it was something we were made aware of almost immediately after the release.

The daze change has impacted a few different skills/specs in our game (assuming you are talking about this change) that is not an example of a bug. Anyways, regarding that, the skills and balance team has already brought it up in some discussions today.

Ah I can rest at peace now that you guys know. Was waiting for a response, maybe theres something of worth to you in the topic about it, perhaps not.
Thanks regardless.

Im not saying to do damage, im saying you bring additional utility via the boon strip with S/D relative to PW’s “blink and you’ll miss it” stun. At the same time with more practical utility on it’s dual skill, S/D can get more damage out of it now that PW has to pray to jesus that someone doesn’t dodge the first flipping hit of the sword swing.

evade per ini is not relevant here. The activation time. The wind up for your stun itself is the same as CND, your vulnerability frames extend past this, you are quite interruptible, which means PW as an evade can be denied where Flanking strike will not be. This isn’t to kitten on PW’s evades, but they’re difficult to utilize specifically for the purpose of mitigating damage because they take long to come out, they are more feasible to protect you once you have isolated one member of the team from counterattack, but as a straight defense, concussion shot, denied.

Sorry but I don’t feel the same
Conjures are not just for an Ele. They’re also for your teammates which is why two of them are created, one for yourself and one for a teammate.
If I have any qualm with conjures it’s that you cannot drop your conjure and then pick it back up.
So when under attack if I want to swirling winds to either assist an ally, or myself I have to ditch the conjure weapon, permanently.
Warrior banners have cast times as well but they’re kind of a hybrid between conjures and Spirits in that they have passive & active skills and a teammate can use them. A banners qualm isn’t in not being instant. As an environmental weapon made for teammates, without any passive benefit unlike Banners, I except the weapon itself to be potent, but I also expect to be able to flipping drop it and come back to it.

An Ele should be able to drop his FGS and let someone else take it.

However you can also take S/D, have the same inf strike, have an immediate evade on Flanking strike, relative to PW’s evade which has about a 0.8~1s activation time (somewhere between that) and bring some boon strip/steal as well which if you are taking soldiers can add well to your bulk. You’ll lose BP and headshots interrupt but can stealth to lose target (no more ranger 111111 spam), and have a 1.5s tactical strike which is 3x the shutdown length of PW and what 6 times as much as headshot now (not that headshot is meant for lasting shutdown). Dancing dagger as slow as it is, can also serve as a “aoe” applicant of venoms. Meanwhile your damage is now certainly more reliable while I disagreed with you in our past argument, it certainly is true now. With PW at best offering you cleave damage that has lot quite a bit of practicality.

Mrbig.8019:

dDuff.3860:

Can we please get a REDPOST here?

Anyway, S/P is fine for the OP venom share, since you just have it for BP and Inf strike.

Just enter the venom share legion and start spamming teams with 6 secs immobilize- 3 secs stun- 3k venom leeaching per ally.

Doubtful. I’ve occasionally run Dev venom both in share and out of share to secure attacks for PW and flanking strike as well as peel for allies.
The amount of immobilize I was able to lock down an individual person myself for was 12+ seconds if not cleaned in those specs. With the cleansing mattering less, because not every immobilize was fired all at once. You could surprise shot, chocking gas, switch to sword, steal + slash, inf strike, dev venom, slash, slice, pistol whip, black powder, surprise shot and at any time a cleanse occurred you just threw back more immobilize. Without a care in the world an epidemic necro would have a field day, especially when shared since you could go in rotation and keep a perma immo chain assuming you didn’t waste it and even now if you “waste it” it’ll get cleared. A rangers Entangle should be stacking immobilize as well now but it’ll likely be handled just fine by most players.

The change to immobilize stacking means that you are punished less for “wasting” immobilize but it doesn’t change the reality that if you are throwing all your immobilize, then a simple clear can remove all of this effort without you having additional options. If you are doing this as S/P, This is only magnified. Your stun doesn’t last as long for instance, as a ranger I can take the stun and immediately serpent’s strike within the immobilize without taking any sword swing. While wasting both remaining 2 charges of Dev venom. If you do this without Pistol whip, of course I have to react, but then you are again left with the same situation as before. Do you “waste” your immobilize and let it be simplistically cleared if they have the ability to do so, or do you sit on your charges momentarily so that you can chain it, decreasing your individual offensive output to secure your teammates.

I don’t see immobilize stacking as a heavy threat (currently, subject to change) nor would I ever advocate that the current state of S/P is at all acceptable because of it.
If you take P/P for instance you can share to your heart extent, bring all the /P utility of S/P, and have Unload as a ranged pressure/burst skill. It feels weird to be advocating P/P, but with the current situation I do feel it can perform the offensive support role more adequately than S/P at this present moment in time. I’d also say P/D and S/D bring a better rounded experience now, but it’s up to players to try that themselves.

Black powder + blinding powder stealth stacking alternative to Shadow refuge and gives the skill more utility purpose (water fields) to stand against SR. That is my take on it.

I don’t have a balance concern so far of immobilize stacking but I feel it makes firing immobize without attention less punitive because the duration isn’t wasted. Was this a necessary route? I don’t believe so.

What support teammate effect? It is CC. It has all the teamwork it needs within its effect. Making it stack is counter productive to healthy team play because chaining immobilize is less (but still is ) important when it stacks so that you don’t “waste” any immobilization from poor synchronization.

Keep cool.
Immobilize shouldn’t stack not stack for the same reason that hard CC does not stack. You want untimed CC to be reduced in effectivity not increased. I would say the same for cripple and slow but I feel GW2’s pacing allows you to keep it as it is.

The golem loses the stun before your sword hit connects..

The stun came off before you actually hit with your sword.
if someone spams their dodge key like a rabid beast, they can avoid every swing.

Doggie.3184:

evilapprentice.6379:

- scorpion wire ignores block/dodge and removes all adrenaline
- Needle trap ignores block/dodge and despawns ranger pet and puts them on a 4s CD
- Signet of Shadows ignores block/dodge, knocks necro’s out of DS and locks it for 4s.

Yes please, need some equality. Give us some skills to completely disable another class’s function and we can have some exciting GW2 rock paper scissors.

While he has a point with adrenaline.
Both Necro’s Life shroud and the rangers pet can be forced out by damage which we’re already capable of doing. Can’t say anything about Adrenaline though.

Mathias.9657:

ensoriki.5789:

Mathias.9657:

At least you guys aren’t knee jerk nerfing/buffing everything like always.

Meh boring thief changes, incredibly underwhelming patch notes after 4 months.

To all the bads saying they killed S/P, I never used the para sigil and still play fine. It’s still completely viable, stop crying about it.

Im afraid you aren’t aware on what is being discussed.

Could you enlighten me then? I have no clue if it’s not because of the sigil or rune stun % I didn’t see any nerfs to s/p.

I don’t know why you feel compelled to throw “bads” at players mentioning reality. PW has always been a one second stun. It is now half of that, there is no falseness in this. You have a set where the opponents ability to mitigate it’s damage has been increased. The cc reduction applies to PW, Tactical strike and headshot, but if you look head shot and tactical strike aren’t being discussed because their duration isn’t as significant to the kit.