Guild Wars 2

TooBz.3065:

fellyn.5083:

Romo.3709:

Number one reason why Ascended gear is worth it

But I do agree with you that it should be kept in PvE exclusively.

Why should it be pve only? Because it requires a little bit of effort and time to get? Because people are lazy?

How many piece of ascended gear have you gotten?

More than one less than 20.

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Precursor weapons drop in wvw. I’m pretty sure you can get most of the other materials to make a legendary weapon in wvw too, except for the dungeon tokens.

Therefor Legendarys can be obtained in wvw. Same goes for all the materials required to make ascended weapons.

And complete ascended weapons have a chance to drop anywhere that ascended materials drop as well.

coglin.1867:

roachsrealm.9284:

see what I’m getting at here?

INdeed I do. it is what is refered to as a weak hyperbole.

All I see that your getting at is cherry picking very specific skills from completely different professions to do a very poor hyperbole. No profession can do more then any 2 of the things on your list, yet warriors can do all 8 in one build on the other list. While every other professions has to trait and gear out just to get 2 or 3 of them at best.

Really? How is warrior getting high mobility in a hammer build? Which is what I think you’re referring to.

And warrior downed abilities are completely worthless. They may as well not exist. And even if they were worth using no one is going into a fight thinking “this guy might get me standing up but once I’m downed he’s mine”.

Romo.3709:

Number one reason why Ascended gear is worth it

But I do agree with you that it should be kept in PvE exclusively.

Why should it be pve only? Because it requires a little bit of effort and time to get? Because people are lazy?

MrRuin.9740:

fellyn.5083:

It’s only challenging now, and I use the word extremely loosely, for all the wrong reasons. The mechanics of the fight are dead easy to get used to and beat.

It’s only challenging because you need 100+ people to all hop into an overflow server and use voice comms.

Yet, servers with more than enough people at the event fail. Because manning and knowing how to use turrets is too challenging. Knowing to wp when dead is too challenging. Knowing to kill the fingers is too challenging. You don’t need voice comms. The organization is as simple as people paying attention when on turrets and people calling out the times on battery defense, coz some people lag and don’t know when to go back (not their fault, obviously). Apparently that is too challenging as well.
There’s more than enough people to show up at this, especially with a set spawn time. More than enough people show up at other mindless world bosses after reset that could show up at Tequatl. This just shows that anything beyond idly standing and auto-attacking is too challenging for a lot of the playerbase.

It’s funny that you say all that but you say it’s easy when you set a time for it. Of course it’s easy to get it done when you plan ahead.

The first part is what you get when you ask a random group of 100+ people to try to be coordinated. It’s just not going to happen.

And as a world event open to everyone it should not require that kind of coordination.

If you want challenging tough fights they need to be instanced in controlled environments. Which is exactly the opposite of what we have.

How is it unfair stat advantage in pvp? Everyone has equal opportunity to make it. If you don’t want to then it’s your own problem.

I also find it interesting that you don’t want ascended gear in wvw but you’re perfectly okay with up level characters being in there. Which an up leveled character will be far more disadvantaged than some one in an exotic vs ascended fight.

But that’s okay right? Right.

SoPP.7034:

fellyn.5083:

This is the part where people come in here saiyng “but guilds dedicated to killing him kill him daily” blah blah blah.

Then someone would reply with “It’s too hard, I want the rewards without challenge” blah blah blah.

It’s only challenging now, and I use the word extremely loosely, for all the wrong reasons. The mechanics of the fight are dead easy to get used to and beat.

It’s only challenging because you need 100+ people to all hop into an overflow server and use voice comms.

I personally don’t consider that challenging but I guess some do. There is no sense of satisfaction because your personal skill level doesn’t play even the smallest role in killing him.

And then there is the fact that only a very small portion of the player base are in big zerg guilds that are capable of killing him. Not everyone is interested in being in one of those guilds. So we’re blocked from killing him for some stupid arbitrary reason when no other piece of content in the game requires anything close to the numbers required to be beat him.

It’s just bad design pure and simple.

This is the part where people come in here saiyng “but guilds dedicated to killing him kill him daily” blah blah blah.

I agree, it needs some more changes.

Yamiga.7863:

ozma.3498:

That’s four updates to get the following implemented:

- A new “specific way” to build precursors.
- Crafting level 500 for all professions.
- New legendary weapons.
- New types of Legendary gear.
- Ascended armor (including craftable pieces).

- As stated previously, precursor crafting is likely not to make it into the game this year
- Since the art for the armor and the ascended crafting materials are already in the game files, we can safely presume it will come in time. No news about lvl 500 Chef though.
- No new legendary weapons are schedulded. People misinterpreted the announcement of the new types of legendary items and thought it was about weapons. What we will get is legendary trinkets of one type (either rings, amulets or earrings)

I don’t think people misinterpreted anything. I’m pretty sure they specifically said new legendary weapons would be coming. Now if those are going to be entirely new weapons types if they add new kinds of weapons to the games or for current weapons they never said.

They also said new types of legendaries, which Colin revealed to likely be accessories.

Mash Hog.5672:

People like you are the reason that companies like ANet cannot be transparent about what they’d like to do.

On one end people are yelling at them to tell them their future plans. On the other hand there are people like you QQing about not meeting the standards that they set for themselves EVEN THOUGH they had stated that these timelines are not set in stone.

It seems like ANet has made great strides over the course of this year and has met most of their benchmarks. They still have 2 months to come to terms with even more of them and my faith in the ANet team is strong.

Nonsense. If there was even a slight chance something wasn’t going to make it that they talked about in their “second half of 2013” blog then they shouldn’t have mentioned it pure and simple.

And not only that but Colin Johannson has gone on record saying that precursor crafting was in fact coming in 2013 separate from that blog. But then later reneged on that and said that it’s one of the things that has a good chance of slipping into 2014.

Forget everything else. It’s all mostly fluff. Precursor crafting has been the single most asked for and/or demanded thing since release. They promised it was coming in late 2012, then it wasn’t. Then it was for sure going to happen again in 2013. But then it’s not.

Talk about disrespecting your loyal customers. They sure as hell had time to make new ugly back items that no one wants and 18 dozen weapon skins hidden in RNG boxes that we have to pay real money to even have a slight chance at getting though.

Not likely to happen in 2013 anymore. One of the devs said as much a month or two ago.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Nobody knows.

I’ve suggested more times than I remember to put the deadlines (or a countdown) into the achievements page, similar to dailies and monthlies.

Sounds completely reasonable. Probably why it hasn’t happened yet.

I’d be curious to know that too.

I wonder how you know all of those people aren’t regular wvw players?

“Players who normally play wvwvw don’t do this from AP and these achievements are only an incentive to play it, with or without AP.”

What you mean is you don’t do it for AP.

That being said I don’t think removing AP will solve the problem. There are still other rewards tied to it and people will want those rewards and people are always going to look for the easiest rout to victory.

Crapgame.6519:

Mackdose.6504:

Crapgame.6519:

Mackdose.6504:

Sirendor.1394:

quaniesan.8497:

runing dungeons and fractual with groups with legendaries and ascended in my super outdated full exotic gear and not a single soul complained or even noticed the difference.

Again, this is PvE. PvE isn’t influenced by ascended.

WvW is.

Take it to the 12 page thread, and until someone shows me how ascended gear affects WvW as a whole and not just 1v1’s where all other factors are controlled for, I vehemently disagree.

You any good at math? It is simple.

Guild vs. Guild – pick any number, say 5 people in each group. Guild group one has only exotics. Guild group two has exotic armor but ascended where applicable. Now, work with me here, which guild group has the extra stats due to gear?

Everything being equal the group that has only exotics is at a disadvantage.

Note: WvW is uncontrolled, unpredictable, and can be any form of combat such has large (zerg / bait ball), small (duo, trio, etc), solo, and other options of combat that stats may or may not matter. But the simple fact that there is a difference in a WvW format of play, it matters. I’ll bet you a gold piece now that when they do implement the JP’s GvG area, ascended gear won’t be allowed or they will enforce some form of gear restriction…

That scenario is statistically rare, and therefore an edge case.

Should we change the rules of an entire game mode to remove a tier of gear for the sake of an edge case?

No.

If your solution was to have everyone scaled up to ascended, I’d be more supportive. I’d still say no change is necessary.

Is it rare? Do you not recall the firestorm that took place not more than a few weeks ago about the dev vs. fight clubs and aftermath? EB JP’s are the target place for fight clubs. Said fight clubs have to have a level playing field. They do in s/t PvP, correct? That is why I said pick a number, 1, 2, 5, whatever. One group has, one group does not, the delta is 10% or some number. It will make a difference.

I wouldn’t scale up ascended. I would actually remove (not allow) it from any form of PvP and leave it only in PvE. PvE for the most part was the target audience anyway, agreed? Those who have vs. have not doesn’t really matter has long has you know the encounters and know when to do x, y, or z… People are, after all, pugging level 40+ fractals and AR resist hasn’t been a limit based on today’s gear.

So you think that anet should remove ascended because people want to have unsanctioned (by anet) pvp matches in an area of the game that was never meant to have that kind of thing going on?

Seems completely logical.

Raine.1394:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Mackdose.6504:

Henri Blanche.8276:

Ultimately most of this discussion is moot, even the OP’s otherwise worthwhile analysis. If people subjectively like having BiS equipment, and feel the effort to acquire Ascended items is an unnecessary and unwanted grind, then they will not be happy. They will feel like ArenaNet betrayed them, that most if not all of their promises and statements regarding this issue made in the past were lies. And they will feel especially violated if they played GW1 where the philosophy was very different and balanced.

Any comparison between Exotic and Ascended gear misses the point.

This guy hits the nail on the head right here.

/thread

Good you realized it. People feel betrayed. It is absolutely unimportant what you think people should think. You can tell them that 10% more damage is not much (ask your boss for 10% more money and tell him, it is not much and it doesn’t matter…), but for them it is more then just a cosmetical change.
People will feel betrayed by statements of the past.

The Manifesto and the interviews are haunting ANet, and it will not stop.

Agree with your analysis here. However, I believe it could stop. If Anet did a modest mea culpa and announced that they were ending VP with the Ascended tier, and had decided to move forward with skill/ability progression (a key element of horizontal progression), I believe these threads would stop in short order.

However, you are right, it will not stop as long as VP is in the game and we are being exercised on the treadmill. This is the price they pay for making us ride a treadmill we didn’t choose in the first place. I came to GW2 to get away from VP and the power treadmill.

They’ve already said they had no intention of adding new tiers after ascended. But that’s not good enough for people on this forum it seems.

Why do people keep drawing comparisons to GW1? I’m pretty sure Anet never said that with GW2 they were setting out to make GW1 only in an open world.

So I really don’t get why people keep saying stuff like “but in gw1 it was this specific way”. Doesn’t make sense to me. If you want GW1 go play that game.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Another thing I don’t get about the ascended grinders, is that ascended gear limits choice. It limits build flexibility, it limits experimentation and makes an already fairly shallow game somewhat worse. With exotics, you could have several sets (which are trivial to obtain) and swap as needed.

So now with ascended gear, rather than experimenting, having fun, and working on mastering a class, people have to grind out ascended in order to fully compete (because in our world a +1 advantage doesn’t equal 0). It just really puts a damper on the fun.

This may come as a surprise to but you can still do that. I have my go to weapons as ascended and I use exotic weapons when I swap my build around.

It’s extremely interesting how that still works and that ascended didn’t break anything as far as that goes.

Doesn’t matter if one select guild is doing it in overflows. It’s poorly designed from the ground up.

Anyone who can’t see that is not worth talking with about it. And it can only do more harm than good if anet keeps taking things in the same direction.

Just remember folks. Anet is looking to tune all dragon fights to be of similar in difficulty to Tequatl.

So much to look forward to.

Aberrant.6749:

phys.7689:

the OP doesnt want progression, and he wants WvW to be fair. Its meant to not be fair. what part of 50 versus 10 people is fair? what part of 20 seige golems versus your door is balanced?

Yea it’s unbalanced, so lets just make an orbital ion cannon available for 400g. Why not! Makes perfect sense that because something is unbalanced they shouldn’t in any way strive to make it as balanced as possible. +1

Exaggerating doesn’t help make your point. Ascended gear don’t unbalance the game any more than allowing level 2 players who don’t even have a full set of white gear into wvw does.

Yet no one complains when they have to fight an up level do they?

In fact you could make an argument that allowing up levels into wvw hurts it more than ascended gear does using all the same anti-ascended arguments presented in this thread.

But then I’m not sure why a game mode that allows any player in at any level using any mix of gear, build, and skill level that features fighting other players that can be any level using any mix of gear, build, and skill levels needs to be balanced. Let’s also not forget to mention that you may be facing equal numbers or might be outnumbered 10 to 1 at any given moment..

Yeah sounds like the definition of balance. Better get rid of ascended.

I also don’t buy the argument that it’s not alt friendly. When you decide that you want to make multiple characters at that moment in time you accept that you’re going to have to put in more effort to get them geared up than some one who only plays one character.

It’s a silly complaint to me that you want to play 8 different characters with 8 different builds each and do that with little to no effort in getting equipment to support said characters and builds.

Especially when exotic equipment is still perfectly viable in every part of the game except for high level fractals.

Crapgame.6519:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ascended weapons and soon to be armour should be left as is till you can come up with a more valid argument than its imbalanced. WvW is never balanced around the player but around the servers. Plus I have 3 ascended weapons so I know how hard they are to gain. They aren’t hard at all. I got one from a drop, and the other 2 are crafted. If you claim they are hard to gain than like I said in another post your doing it wrong and rethink how your doing it.

Enlighten everyone how they are doing it wrong when not every has the same amount of play time or interests in other aspects of the game that could yield ascended items. This argument is a lot like peeing in the when. The only outcome is that your leg or pants will get wet…

There is a reason why these items are not allowed in the formal PvP maps.

Upon release of ascended gear it didn’t matter. A ring here, earring there, wasn’t so huge of a deal. Add in a back piece and weapons, well, stats increased yet again. Come Q1 or there about you now have armor. Now how do those stats start to look?

Now let us factor in the game play triad. There is PvE, there restricted PvP in the form of s/t PvP, and lastly there is the free for all WvW. PvE it doesn’t really matter those stats because there is a group of people and one can learn the static content. There are people pugging 50 level fractals after all. There is the free for all WvW battles in which case hiding behind a zerg gear doesn’t matter. 100% agree with you or anyone in regards to that argument. However, not everyone hides behind a zerg and prefers to go alone or run in small tactical teams. Roaming to control or deny bloodlust comes to mind. New edge of madness maps could be another. Flipping supply camps or stopping supply routes or yaks.

Stats do matter over time and ascended gear isn’t easy to obtain. That is another debate which I really don’t care to do here in this thread. However, if you look at the aspect of play, and options within WvW, one can factually argue that ascended gear changes the battle. If nothing else it does give you an edge just because 1 + 1 = 2.

Isn’t math a wonderful thing?

Funny… you pretty much have to go out of your way at this point to avoid getting materials for ascended stuff.

KeeZee.7312:

Not only did Anet give JQ the easy schedule they also rigged it that only BG and SoR get skill lag and JQ doesn’t.

That is just comedy gold.

Let me join in…..

Anet looked at all the transfers and said JQ doesn’t have a chance compared to how stacked BG and SoR is so they gave us a fighting chance.

And the fact that the under stacked BG server has pulled ahead 2k after NA primetime no way indicates that they are the stacked server.

Comedy gold I tell you.

What’s comedy gold is you seem to actually believe Anet has given a specific server that kind of advantage.

MrKnas.5193:

Hebee.8460:

how does the executioner outfit look?
I’m at work

It looks waaaay too good to be a town outfit. kitten you AN

http://dulfy.net/2013/10/22/gw2-bloody-prince-and-executioners-outfit-in-the-gemstore/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gw2-bloody-prince-and-executioners-outfit-in-the-gemstore

I like the part where the executioner outfit has a toy two handed axe…which people have wanted as a new weapon since release.

Shiver.5903:

Smith.1826:

…
I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve ended a fight with an abysmally low amount of health. You know how many times I ended a fight with 1 hp? 6. I can still remember that after all this time, but I also remember always have max stated gear. Going from a 28hp sword pommel to a 30hp one made that much of a difference.

What’s up 1 hp (attach #1)

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

So people who promote a more balanced game over a power creep game and are WvW enthousiasts, some of them only playing WvW for a year on… well obviously suck at WvW and PvP in general, and justify their deaths on Ascended geared enemies? Are you for real. :-)

Could it be the other way around, and the power creep guys think only of their own power, forgetting the bigger picture and game-balance? Make your own conclusions.

If you’d rather have yet another advantage over your opponent before the fight even start, that’s your call. Does it make you a good PvPer? Again, people can make their own conclusions out of this one.

fellyn.5083:

That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves and under estimate their opponents.

And I gotta wonder how much these people are worried about wvw when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.

I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can insta gib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.

If we want wvw to fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.

So, instead of making it more balanced, we should keep making it worse? This way, we will surely work towards a more balanced game (Not). This game won’t improve much if we… just make it worse. Kinda makes sense, does it.

I’m not sure if you’re aware of this but it’s not supposed to be balanced. That’s why it’s 1v1v1 and you can fight people who have 1000 hours and the best gear or a level 2 who has 30 minutes under their belt and not even a full set of white gear at the same time.

My point is no one complains about fighting the easier opponents just those that might pose a slightly bigger challenge. And that if you remove one extreme you need to remove the other as well. But yet again, no one complains that they can fight up levels who are basically free kills.

Some people might hate me for doing this but there are some helpful sites out there for gatherers.

Noteably..

www.orrmaps.com

and

www.gw2nodes.com

If you are looking for lower level materials those sites won’t be helpful to you but then again low level materials are easier to find to begin with.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves while simultaneously under estimate their opponents.

And I gotta wonder how much these people are actually worried about wvw balance when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.

I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can instagib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.

If we want wvw to be completely fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.

No, everyone has just as much right to be there as you.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Xillllix.3485:

So your saying disable all the gear I use (which includes 6 ascended trinkets and 4 ascended weapons). Because what, crafting is too complicated for you? What the hell? Get a grip on yourself.

This is a game and you play it how it’s supposed to be played.

What exactly do you find so offensive about evening out the playing field?

As for crafting that garbage? I have better things to do than brainlessly running champ trains for the required mats. Stunning, engaging gameplay right there LOL!

How is the playing field not even? You have just as much opportunity to get ascended gear as everyone else. If you’re to lazy to go after it then that’s entirely your own problem.

If we remove ascended gear from wvw I vote we should also make it so you have to be level 80 to enter wvw.

After all it’s not fair to some one who is level 15 to have to fight against people who can use level 80 exotics.

Khallis.5708:

i think they need to put diminishing returns on stats or if they have that implemented already then bump it up to the next level.

What purpose would that serve?

Knote.2904:

Crazy idea, imagine if there was no such thing as a “DPS” or full DPS build.

Meaning, you couldn’t focus 100% of your stat budget to pure damage. Everyone would have the same dmg potential from stats as everyone else no matter what.

For example, every piece of gear would have 1 dmg stat, either Condition Dmg or a merged version of Power/Crit stats, then you’d have your choice of stats that would ultimately modify your playstyle.

You could choose from : Healing, Support, Control, Defense.

So in the end, everyone would have the same damage gear wise, and you would differ on which secondary “role” you choose. You could just go defense, or give up some defense for healing, or support, or control. Support would be buffing power, as opposed to Healing.

This is just hypothetical, and even if did happen the content would still need to be changed or else the best builds would probably be either support or defense.

But it got me thinking of how this game was supposed to eliminate the Holy Trinity, and everyone is supposed to “dps” while having a secondary role of their choosing, I think it would’ve made things more interesting to have the stats actually reflect that. Right now you have the DPS from the trinity, the Tanks from the trinity, and sort of healer/tanks from the trinity in this game, but the last 2 aren’t needed, and thus just aren’t relevant, the stats make this happen.

The same thing would probably be better for pvp as well, there would be no glass cannon vs glass cannon that makes the game a ridiculously small TTK twitch based crapshoot, or 2 low dmg bunker specs unable to kill each other. In this case, it would also seperate the sustain (healing) and defense (tankiness/high TTK) builds.

Sounds boring. And a little like you’re trying to tell others how they should be playing.

Anet HQ is situated in Seattle Washington on the west coast US. Which means it’s not even 6am for them. The probably aren’t even in the office right now.

The update probably won’t be out for another 3 or 4 hours.

I’m ready to be disappointed when Tengu have all the same issues with armor that charr currently have.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I’ve said it a couple of times. Acquiring mats isn’t the topic here.

The topic is that crafting something with mats you didn’t buy doesn’t mean you got a free item. Free would be an item mailed to you. This gives you the item but takes mats that had value. Thus not free.

You give those materials money value. I do not.

So, free for me.

I would buy it but I would much rather see something we’ve never experienced before in either GW1 or GW2.

And then if we had to choose from areas that were in GW1 I’d rather Elona first than Cantha.

Agreed. Specifically the HoM items should find a nice home in there. There’s no reason for them not to be considering HoM has it’s own achievement section too.

Nike.2631:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Just curious, as I only very, very briefly skimmed the preview, are there only going to be balance adjustments in this patch, or will they also be adding new skills/traits in this patch (or is that still tba)? Thanks, guys/gals.

In the sense “will there be more than 12 choices for each trait line?” almost certainly not. But we’ve already seen that some traits will become permanent/automatic benefits for all members of that class, and mechanically completely new traits (which grab the names of the now defunct option to seize an air of legitimacy) have already been announced.

I think his question was are those things coming tomorrow? As far as I understood it tomorrows update is only supposed to be skill balances along with some quality of life changes.

I think peoples are just blowing things way out of whack here, completely over thinking things.

When I say I made my ascended weapons for “free” all I mean is I personally didn’t spend any gold on them.

The value of the materials I used in the process was never in question because I didn’t spend any gold to get them. Like wise what I could sell them for was never in question because I wasn’t interested in selling them.

Hence, free. Although I’m not certain I ever used that word when talking about ascended weapons. I’m pretty sure I’ve always said something along the lines of “it didn’t cost any anything (gold) to make mine”.

IndigoSundown.5419:

If the mats had no value, people wouldn’t be gathering and saving them, regardless of whether they went out of their way to do so or not. If something has value and something has to be expended to obtain it, then it isn’t free. Saying it is free is saying your time and effort have no value. Some may believe that. While they’re free to think whatever they like, I don’t believe their time and effort have no value.

Semantics. Saying something has no money value does not mean it doesn’t have value.

Air for example has no money value but without it you die. So in that sense it’s the most valuable thing in existence yet has no money value (although some would charge people for it if they could).

The value I get from my crafting materials is what I can make from them. I also acknowledged that the cost I paid was the time it took to gather them. And since I never made a chore out of it I never really considered that a real cost. It’s just something that happened naturally as I played.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

fellyn.5083:

fourpoundburrito.1698:

fellyn.5083:

If I chose to associate a money value with the materials. The only value they have to me is to craft with them. The cost I pay is the little time it takes to get them.

I’m not giving up anything except for my time.

Materials are just a means to end. For you that may be to make money. For me it’s to use as a crafting material, therefor they have no gold value to me. I don’t care what the market says they are worth.

So no there isn’t an opportunity cost for me.

“But but but but it has value..”

That’s great. I don’t care. It didn’t cost me any of my own gold to make so it was free outside of time and effort.

QED: you don’t understand what opportunity costs means.

I understand it just fine. I don’t see how it applies to me and my materials because I was never looking to make any money from them. Therefor the only value they had to me was what I could use to make from them.

I’m pretty sure that opportunity cost implies there is a choice to be made between one thing or the other. To me there is no choice because I was never looking at them or considered them as means to make money, primarily.

The person who said it’s a matter of perspective is correct.

Now you might have an argument saying my opportunity cost was do I make a sword or do I make an axe? Or mace? So many choices.

OC doesn’t refer to the value YOU put on the materials, it refers to the loss of potential gain via the market’s value of the materials. So no, you do not understand it just fine.

From the wiki..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost#cite_note-3

Opportunity cost is what you have to forgo when you choose to do A rather than B.

For “OC”, since we’re being lazy, to apply to me there would have to be a choice between A and B.

For me there was never a choice to be made other than what I want to turn my materials into.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

eisberg.2379:

fourpoundburrito.1698:

fellyn.5083:

If I chose to associate a money value with the materials. The only value they have to me is to craft with them. The cost I pay is the little time it takes to get them.

I’m not giving up anything except for my time.

Materials are just a means to end. For you that may be to make money. For me it’s to use as a crafting material, therefor they have no gold value to me. I don’t care what the market says they are worth.

So no there isn’t an opportunity cost for me.

“But but but but it has value..”

That’s great. I don’t care. It didn’t cost me any of my own gold to make so it was free outside of time and effort.

QED: you don’t understand what opportunity costs means.

Or he does, and finds it completely irrelevant. I understand the concept fully, but find it completely irrelevant in a game.

It’s fine to say opportunity cost is irrelevant to you, but at least you acknowledge that it exists. The other poster is saying it doesn’t exist, arguing against it’s very definition.

If you’re referring to me then I was only ever speaking for myself.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

fellyn.5083:

If I chose to associate a money value with the materials. The only value they have to me is to craft with them. The cost I pay is the little time it takes to get them.

I’m not giving up anything except for my time.

Materials are just a means to end. For you that may be to make money. For me it’s to use as a crafting material, therefor they have no gold value to me. I don’t care what the market says they are worth.

So no there isn’t an opportunity cost for me.

“But but but but it has value..”

That’s great. I don’t care. It didn’t cost me any of my own gold to make so it was free outside of time and effort.

QED: you don’t understand what opportunity costs means.

I understand it just fine. I don’t see how it applies to me and my materials because I was never looking to make any money from them. Therefor the only value they had to me was what I could use to make from them.

I’m pretty sure that opportunity cost implies there is a choice to be made between one thing or the other. To me there is no choice because I was never looking at them or considered them as means to make money, primarily.

The person who said it’s a matter of perspective is correct.

Now you might have an argument saying my opportunity cost was do I make a sword or do I make an axe? Or mace? So many choices.

The update will hit within the next 24 hours and the official patch notes will be up around then. Probably. Maybe.

MrIllusion.5304:

fellyn.5083:

Cactus.2710:

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I don’t understand all of the fuss in this thread. The OP is just pointing out the fact that there is an opportunity cost involved in crafting with mats you gathered yourself. So people who say stuff like “OMG it only cost me 20g to level weaponsmithing to 500 ’cause I had most of the mats in the bank already” are wrong. The correct statement is that it cost them 20g plus what they could have made selling all their mats instead of crafting with them.

^this^

It appears that a lot of people posting here don’t have a clue what “opportunity cost” means. Any money forgone by not selling the mats is money that could have been used for any other aspect of the game, and unless somebody ONLY played GW2 to make that one weapon that one time, the concept totally applies here. The money you didn’t get from the TP is just as real as the money you spent there.

If you only play for profit then sure. Not everyone plays to maximize profits. I’m not sure why that’s hard to understand.

Not hard to understand. You’re just in the wrong thread. OP’s point was that the “free” mats have ingame value. Whether you want to maximise profit or not is besides the point.

You could have absolutely no need for ingame gold. Maybe you walk everywhere instead of waypointing. Maybe you’ll never need to repair armor or pay for gathering tools.

But the mats have value. You’re merely giving up what you would have gotten if you had used the mats to craft, instead on selling it to fund waypoints or repairs or tools.

If I chose to associate a money value with the materials. The only value they have to me is to craft with them. The cost I pay is the little time it takes to get them.

I’m not giving up anything except for my time.

Materials are just a means to end. For you that may be to make money. For me it’s to use as a crafting material, therefor they have no gold value to me. I don’t care what the market says they are worth.

So no there isn’t an opportunity cost for me.

“But but but but it has value..”

That’s great. I don’t care. It didn’t cost me any of my own gold to make so it was free outside of time and effort.

Cactus.2710:

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I don’t understand all of the fuss in this thread. The OP is just pointing out the fact that there is an opportunity cost involved in crafting with mats you gathered yourself. So people who say stuff like “OMG it only cost me 20g to level weaponsmithing to 500 ’cause I had most of the mats in the bank already” are wrong. The correct statement is that it cost them 20g plus what they could have made selling all their mats instead of crafting with them.

^this^

It appears that a lot of people posting here don’t have a clue what “opportunity cost” means. Any money forgone by not selling the mats is money that could have been used for any other aspect of the game, and unless somebody ONLY played GW2 to make that one weapon that one time, the concept totally applies here. The money you didn’t get from the TP is just as real as the money you spent there.

If you only play for profit then sure. Not everyone plays to maximize profits. I’m not sure why that’s hard to understand.

Master of Timespace.2548:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Master of Timespace.2548:

The essence of the discussion should be here: Why are the materials somehow differend from the gold they make during playing “normally”?

They aren’t, just the person’s perspective on their value is.

Since the intent is to use them, to people that gather their own mats during what they consider enjoyable play, materials cost less than what they would need to purchase the same quantity on the TP. Its cheaper to grab the tool and gather as you play (where you’re also earning money through drops and in straight coin, recouping that tool cost) than it is to just buy it off the TP.

Does it change what they could make from the TP is they chose to sell them? No. Does it change how much it would cost if they bought the armor instead of crafting it? No. If what they wanted was even for sale.

But the real question is: do they care? Again no, because their perspective is that it was just simpler, cheaper, easier to grab the mats as they played and make it themself.

It’s ok that you don’t understand, you’re not alone in that. What and how people view the value of items depends a lot on personal perspective.

Well I don’t know what to say. I tried to use rational reasoning to show that materials are really just money, but you suggest that all that matters is the person’s perspective of value, even if that perspective is completly biased in the rational sense? Hm, you may be right, it feels better and more fun to craft the item using the materials you gathered yourself and so on*. Thus, you get more enjoyment out of the game if you gather the materials yourself and so it makes sense to do so. I quess it’s really just a matter of perspective after all.
Though, it still doesn’t really justify the claim “I gathered the mats so it was free” now that I think of it :/.

It’s only money if each individual person who plays the game associates value with them.

You do and that’s fine. However, I don’t. So to me gathering materials to use for crafting is something I would consider “free”. The only thing I “spent” to obtain them was a little bit of time and I hardly consider that a cost if I’m not making it a chore.

Astralporing.1957:

Barter is still a way of paying for things – except you pay in materials, not cash. The fact that you have gathered the materials yourself doesn’t diminish the cost of the end result in the slightest.
After all, you never say that “well, the gold i have is an accidental result of my gameplay, so the things i buy with it cost me nothing”.

Interesting…I say that all the time. In my entire time playing GW2 I have never once gone out of my way to make gold.

Knote.2904:

Vaugh.7193:

Clark Skinner.4902:

I can’t understand how they can think that crafting something was free since they gathered the mats.

Say that you are out walking. You are hungry and need to eat something. You stumble over a Snickers on the side walk. You pick it up. You can now sell it but since you are hungry you eat it. How much did you pay for that candy bar? In my perspective nothing, since you were hungry and was going to buy something to eat anyways.

What a terrible example.

If you COULD sell it, then yes, you lost out on money in order to eat it.

No one is gonna hustle a snickers bar.

You assume we care about making money in the first place. That’s your problem. If I don’t have a use for materials I will sell them, if I do I won’t. It’s pretty straight forward.