Suggestions for alternative ways to get precursor weapons (legendaries)
in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
I’ll pass. It is fairly easy to get the materials necessary to get legendary weapons. The question is how much time you want to sink into it is all. Getting the mats is simply a time consuming process and I feel an legendary weapon for karma is a cop out. Not very legendary if everyone has it.
You’re very short sighted if you think 200g for those weapons is fine. The cost is only going to go up for them and the amount of money you can make just playing the game regularly is going to go down.
And my suggestion for making them buyable with karma was just that, a suggestion. There are other ways they can make them be attainable without having to rely on gold or very low chances with rng.
in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
Thats supply and demand for you op.
If other people can find a way to get those 200 golds and you cant, the problem is on you, not anet’s.
Even if u start to accuse people for buying gold, thats over 200 usd rigt there. When those rich people got what they want, the price will drop if its really that unfair.
And you already has a lot of karma to farm.
Good luck on your legendary.
Yes. Supply and demand. That is exactly the problem. The problem is there is so few of these weapons that they go up in cost daily. Yet literally everything else in the game world has such a huge supply that it’s going down in cost. Look at the market and tell me otherwise.
Things that sold literally last week for 3.5g now sell for 2.5g and are going down in value by the hour. Look at Orichalcum ore and orichalcum accessories, specifically.
As I said before, pretty much no one in the game right now who played legitimately has that kind of money or ever will playing the game the way Anet has made it. A very lucky few can make money off of gambling with the mystic forge yes. But everything else is going down in value.
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in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
Some quick math based on the 3 events i grind in Straights of Devastation. I get roughly 2k karma and well over 1g an hour, sometimes 2 depending but i’l say 1 for ease.
Thats 500 hours for 1 mil karma, by that time i would have at least 500g.
Lengendaries are suppose to be hard to get, the designers knew this, that’s why they have a unique skins and effects. You guys are complaining because what? other people are going to have them before you? They are not mandatory either, your not being forced to get them.
That 500g doesn’t factor in the costs of repairs/travels/salvage kits and all the other wonderful stuff we have in the game to spend money on. I understand they are supposed to be hard to get. I honestly don’t think I’m asking for it to be easier to obtain. All I want is a way to get the weapon I want that doesn’t rely on other players putting them on the market for a generous 200g. Which is only going to get more expensive as the game gets older.
200g 1 and a half months after the game has been released. What about after 2 months? 300g? 4 months? 500g? A year? At the current income rates people just don’t make enough gold and nothing anyone can say will convince me that those prices are okay.
And just to be clear, that’s 200g just for the precursor weapon. When all is said and done it’s going to cost a lot more than that to finish your legendary weapon.
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in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
So you would rather grind 1 million karma, than grind 200g? i can guarantee that 200g is just as, if not easier to get.
Not really. I was okay when Dusk was in the 60-80g price range. That seemed fair. But 200g is just outright insane and it’s only going to get worse. That put’s it squarely out of reach of just about 100% of the population of the game. And at the same time the actual monetary rewards for playing aren’t going up at nearly the same rate.
All I want is an alternative that doesn’t rely on rng or other players putting them up for obscene amounts of gold. If that alternative is a few days/weeks of grinding karma that is fine by me.
Another suggestion would be to make them cost a combination of 4 of the gifts from the dungeons to create. That also seems fair.
Alternatives don’t hurt anyone. Allowing a very tiny small minority of players to control the entire economy of the game does.
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in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
I’m aware of all that. That’s why it doesn’t make sense to me to have the most important part only be available in the ways that it currently is.
All the t6 crafting materials are easily enough to obtain. I have 25+ of each without going out of my way to get them. Gold on the other hand? Not so much.
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Whats worse is that abilities that should prevent knock downs or break stuns don’t against certain mobs. But then mobs don’t play by the same rules as the players.
in Suggestions
Posted by: fellyn.5083
Dusk of Rage on the market right now for 199.99g. Who that has played the game legitimately has that kind of gold? After 350 hours I have around 17g in my bank right now from playing the game “regularly”. That is light farming of high end crafting materials. Events when ever I come across them. Selling orichalcum on the market whenever I get some, stuff like that. This is how I feel anet intended people to play the game and how they intended people to progress through it.
The cost to play the game increases at a steady pace as you level up yet the rewards you get for playing the game don’t increase at the same pace. So with all this in mind it just seems really odd that the main way to get the items which are the main focal point of the “end game” is to rely on other people to have it available for you to buy. And at obscene prices at that.
So the solution is fairly simple. Make the base weapons, dusk, bolt, dawn, etc available for karma somewhere. A hefty number like 500k karma or hell, even 1 million karma seems fair. There are enough gold sinks into the game that this seems reasonable to me and people won’t have rely on rng or sinking hundred of hours into the game just to have gold to buy one at obscene prices.
Alternatively, what does Anet consider a fair amount of time for people to get just one legendary weapon who didn’t exploit the free server transfers? Because after 350 hours, 100% map exploration, 400 armor smithing, and almost 400 weapon smithing I feel no closer to having a legendary weapon now than I did at level 1. So what is a reasonable time frame Anet expects from people to get one? 500 hours? 600? 1000? 2000?
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If they make the lower level zones just as hard to complete as the higher level ones, then there is literally no benefit from levelling to max as far as ease of fighting with PvE.
If you earn level 80, you have also earned the right to dominate low level mobs.
While this is true to some extent that is not what the intent of the OP was. The simple fact of the matter is that the costs to play the game normally just about outweigh the rewards you get for playing the game normally.
And that was what the OP was about. I agree, it’s a huge issue that needs to be addressed.
It’s interesting to note that the lower level you are the most cost efficient it is to play the game. You get 60c for completing a heart and the teleport fees are around 11c. You’re getting roughly 10 times the amount of money for playing the game at 15 than the gold sinks require.
At 80 you get roughly 2s per event depending on zone yet it costs anywhere from 1s50c (in the same zone) to upwards of 4s15c to the other side of the map. That’s not even taking into consideration armor repairs, which if you’re in full exotics can be quite expensive.
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Maybe. But Call of Duty or Assassins Creed will probably get it. Because as we all know the more a game sells the better it is. Diablo 3 and the Call of Duty series are testaments to that fact. Other people are claiming that the new Bioshock game will be GoTY. They may have a fair point there but I’m not to much into that series so I don’t know that much about it.
Saw one today that amused me… Flo From State Farm.
Shiny? Love the Human tier 2 set! Used some Fine Transmuation Stones on the draconic gear so that I could have the appearance of tier 2
What color of dye is that?
Scanning memory and modifying the client. I’m guessing it’s very much ban worthy if you get caught using it.
Do you mean the various cores/loadstones? Besides that I’m not sure what you mean by rare crafting materials.
And yes. Even though I’m not sure I know what you are referring to, I agree. Let us put crafted components in the collections tab too. Or make an entire new tab for them, that might be better.
Hey, this forum design has been bothering me so much, I’m wondering if anyone feels the same way. As an artist, focusing on graphic design, I can’t help but wonder who designed this forum and why they choose to sacrifice standard features and functionality for this minimalistic approach. Why did they make it such a challenge to post and image in the body of your topic? It’s nearly impossible to have a cool signature because the signature form only allows 100 characters. I’ve spent some time trying to fit an image or signature into the forms to no avail. Maybe there’s a way, but I havn’t found it.
Forum designers, I know how you have your reasons for trying something different and being minimalistic, but you didn’t have to remove the most basic and essential features that most forums offer. The overall website design is great, but the forums should stick to the industry standard design, because it works. The forums were not ready when the game was released, and I think it was because they were still working on the design and layout. The outcome is overdesigned and lacking functionality. I have a feeling I’m not the only one who misses the standard forum layout that we all know and love.
I’m glad. Signatures with pictures are usually obnoxiously over sized with gaudy/ugly/bright pictures of anime girls in them with big….eyes. I’m not saying that’s the kind of signature you’re after but those sort of signatures seem to be the norm.
Text signatures are just fine.
The daily achievement for the mystic coin resets at 12pm. Apparently dungeons reset at 5pm. 5 hour difference so if all the information in this thread is correct you were probably hit by the DR.
That might have made sense if only there weren’t a 12 hour interval in between the runs I did before and after the patch.
Instead the accurate picture is:
2 TA runs -> mystic coin reset + dungeon reset + patch -> 2 TA runs --————————{ 12 hour period }My bedtime happens to be right around now, which is included in the 12 hour period.
So there’s absolutely no way I should have been hit by DR.
Except for it’s 12 pm and 5pm pacific standard time respectively. It’s not based on your local time.
It’s not a 12 hour period. It’s a 24 hour period and as we saw with the patch last week it takes things into consideration that you did before the patch is actually applied to the game.
No, that was clearly the first dungeon I ran that day, after dailies(the chest daily quest is the benchmark I go by to tell if a new day has passed) were clearly reset.
The dungeon was done in 45 minutes, this is more or less accurate as I always set down a Peach Pie Tray for a 1 hour buff the moment the group enters the dungeon and there were 14 minutes left after picking up end credit.
Something is not right here.
I’d agree with that information, something isn’t right about you getting hit by the DR system if it was your very first run of the day from any dungeon path. We’ve seen reports of this happening to some players, and we’ll continue working on the system to find and resolve problems. Posting your issue about it helps us narrow the search fields down on what might actually be causing problems. I’ll PM you here in a bit asking for some more information that I can pass along to our programmers.
You may look through game logs to find that my information is factual. I have every confidence I have not misappropriated, exaggerated or played down any bit of information given in this thread.
The dungeon in question is Twilight Arbor, spider path where you fight Fyonna.
While I have done the exact same path + dungeon the previous day, I am also extremely certain that the day has “reset” due to the mystic coin daily quest resetting, and thus I should obtain 60 tokens, not 45 for that run.
I was gaining credit for the daily throughout that run, if that helps.
The daily achievement for the mystic coin resets at 12pm. Apparently dungeons reset at 5pm. 5 hour difference so if all the information in this thread is correct you were probably hit by the DR.
This diminishing returns nonsense has got to go. Just put in a 24 hour lock out timer on each path and call it good. Because it’s clear that you guys (anet) only want us to run a certain path only once every 24 hours.
Ideally you guys would just take care of all the exploits preventing people from finishing runs in minutes so we wouldn’t have to deal with either a lock out or this DR stuff but I guess that’s not going to happen?
If people want to run the same path over and over who cares? Just reduce rewards for that path and make the reward to finish the path reflect the effort put into it. I honestly don’t get why they need all these elaborate systems in place when there are so many easier ways to fix the problems.
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Really? You us references to drugs and you’re surprised it gets closed? Pretty easy to see that just looking at the title.
You can’t be that clueless.
Adapt and overcome. That’s what you’re going to have to do. The trinity isn’t coming back, at least not in GW2.
If you can’t accept that then no one can help you. Protip, change how you think about the game instead of trying to get the game changed to suit your current thinking.
Maybe there will be a way to upgrade legendaries to new max stats if expansions raise the lvl cap. I think it would be a good idea at least.
There already is. Transmutation stones.
In the dungeon forum it was mentioned by one of the devs that there would be a patch Monday night that would hopefully contain a fix for the dungeon loot issues. But big patch..? We’ll see.
The people who speed-ran CoF and got their dungeon armor in 2.5-3 hours are now whining that the rest of us will have a chance to get our armors in fewer, but more time-consuming, dungeon trips? lolwut? Seriously, at the end of the day, you will still have earned more gold and obtained your armor faster than after this change is implemented. Anet introduced lowered gold rewards and reduced drop rates to discourage speed running. In order to balance that for players coming up now, they need to adjust the drop tables for tokens. The early runners do still have the advantage though of having obtained dungeon armors in 15-20 short, quick, efficient runs. Everyone else will have to take long arduous journeys. Increasing the token rates eases that sting just a bit. (Making one universal “dungeon token” currency would be even better, but I don’t see that happening.)
Unless I’m missing something no one got their gear in “2.5-3 hours”. I do remember hearing that there was an exploit that allowed people to complete CoF in 1-2 minutes but I honestly don’t think that many people used it if it was actually there. I have full CoF set and it took closer to 40 hours and that was before all the buffs and that was doing 15-20 minute runs.
Still, as I said on the previous page it doesn’t bother me in the slightest that they will start giving out more tokens and people will get their armor more quickly. Because in the future should I choose to getting some fancy looking armor for an alt won’t be nearly as tedious.
Before I read that they were going to adjust token rewards I would never have considered going for another set of dungeon armor for alts or alternative stat combinations for my warrior, crafted or karma all the way. But now I think I might, after they adjust rewards that is.
4 runs an hr x40hrs x20 tokens=3200 tokens +10 for the first one you did each of say 5 days =3250 tokens It doesn’t cost that many for a set of armor
Except for you can’t do 4 runs an hour. With the fact that you will very likely have to wait for the events to unlock the door to CoF (a solid 20-25 minutes if the npc hasn’t spawned) you’re likely only going to get 2 runs an hour, 3 if you are lucky and you get out while the bridge defend event is almost over.
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The people who speed-ran CoF and got their dungeon armor in 2.5-3 hours are now whining that the rest of us will have a chance to get our armors in fewer, but more time-consuming, dungeon trips? lolwut? Seriously, at the end of the day, you will still have earned more gold and obtained your armor faster than after this change is implemented. Anet introduced lowered gold rewards and reduced drop rates to discourage speed running. In order to balance that for players coming up now, they need to adjust the drop tables for tokens. The early runners do still have the advantage though of having obtained dungeon armors in 15-20 short, quick, efficient runs. Everyone else will have to take long arduous journeys. Increasing the token rates eases that sting just a bit. (Making one universal “dungeon token” currency would be even better, but I don’t see that happening.)
Unless I’m missing something no one got their gear in “2.5-3 hours”. I do remember hearing that there was an exploit that allowed people to complete CoF in 1-2 minutes but I honestly don’t think that many people used it if it was actually there. I have full CoF set and it took closer to 40 hours and that was before all the buffs and the new gate exploit that people are doing (haven’t run cof in about 2 weeks now).
Still, as I said on the previous page it doesn’t bother me in the slightest that they will start giving out more tokens and people will get their armor more quickly. Because in the future should I choose to get some fancy looking armor for an alt won’t be nearly as tedious.
Before I read that they were going to adjust token rewards I would never have considered going for another set of dungeon armor for alts or alternative stat combinations for my warrior, crafted or karma all the way. But now I think I might, after they adjust rewards that is.
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^
Guessing Caselia was one of the people who were abusing the transfer to make a lot of gold.
There is a fine line between an exploit and abusing game mechanics for profit. Yes it’s not an exploit only because server transfers were never meant to be free and with no cool down. That’s the only reason you guys aren’t banned for doing it.
They let people do it to settle server populations after launch and let people get coordinated with their friends/families/guilds on appropriate servers. Not so you guys could make kitten tons of gold farming orichalcum ore.
Hence the 24 hour cool down. Which eventually (probably within 2-3 weeks) you’re going to have to pay to transfer servers and it will have a cool down of one week, as was intended before the game launched. They are probably just waiting for the guesting feature first.
As a side note – did anyone notice how the last few days before they added in the 24 hour cool down the price of orichalcum ore was around 2s? As soon as the cool down was turned on the price shot straight back up to 3s. I WONDER WHY.
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No it doesn’t. You still have your armor. I’ve put in the time and got my set from CoF and a few weapons but this change makes me happy. I know it will be easier to get gear for different characters in the future should I choose to make them.
If/when they start giving out more tokens that doesn’t mean your gear will all of a sudden disappear. Your complaint is nonsense.
Giving more tokens or reducing the price is unfair to those people who already played dozens of dungeons and maybe even bought gear for those tokens.
Seriously? You’re gonna complain about them lowering prices either by giving out more tokens or reducing costs?
I’m pretty sure they all have some sort of special effect when you use them.
I suggested an idea where skill books could be used to respec outside of cities. I think that would be an excellent use for skill books after you initially use them.
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To everyone getting 1 shot and encountering unavoidable mechanics, you are doing things very wrong. Either your stats are just all in the wrong spots for dungeons or you are having a really hard time processing a mobs attack animations/attack patterns. Try dropping vitality, picking up toughness. Stop spending 90% of an instance on yourkitten and complaining that mobs have so much health. You will do a lot more damage dropping that 95% crit damage build and picking up some toughness, because you will actually be alive. Keep your conditions and boons stacked. Use consumables, both potions and food, they are dirt cheap and if you are farming dungeons worth the investment. Sure there are some fights where health is a wtf factor as the mobs lack any interesting abilities, but they are mostly all in the same dungeon, in which every run can be done in less than 30 minutes.
Yeah except for no. No amount of toughness would keep a person alive when they get hit for 28000 when the average player might have 15 or 16k hp, considerably less if an elemental or mesmer. And there was no attack animation that I saw. Just go into fight and instantly dead.
I’ll play my game the way I want to thanks.
It doesn’t matter how you want to treat it. It only matters what Anet thinks. If they think you are exploiting then “but it’s a jumping puzzle” isn’t going to get you your account back.
No one is asking for easy mode. If that’s all you get out of the complaints then perhaps reading comprehension is something you need to work on.
Attacks that can 1 shot with no chance of dodging them and mobs that have huge hp pools does not make a challenging dungeon.
Can you give examples of mobs that are one-shotting you? I agree on the health thing, but I’ve ran into very few mobs that can immediately down a player. Most of the ones that do have really telegraphed or otherwise obvious attacks. Hell, sometimes I can survive supposed one-shot hits…
Looks at my post a further up the page.
No one is asking for easy mode. If that’s all you get out of the complaints then perhaps reading comprehension is something you need to work on.
Attacks that can 1 shot with no chance of dodging them and mobs that have huge hp pools does not make a challenging dungeon.
I don’t know about high hp. But extremely cheap 1 shot mechanics sure are not fun.
Went into Arah story mode for the first time today. The first boss we encounter, as soon as I got into melee range – wham – hit for 28000 damage by an attack that was impossible to dodge at melee range. SO MUCH FUN.
Never having done Arah before, story mode or otherwise, how the hell is Anet expecting people to know that such a cheap mechanic is in place? I guess by now we should just expect it.
It would be nice of them though to give us some kind of idea on how they think they are going to fix the rewards and difficulties.
As much as I would like to do a “This is what we’re working on” – doing as such hurts iteration. Because if I say something now, and after its focus tested we have to change that system, then I’m considered a liar, and our integrity is diminished as a result.
We play this game too. We know that the dungeon rewards aren’t where they need to be, and we’re going to work on it until we are happy with how it feels. Monday’s patch will be the start of our efforts to correct the problem.
So why leave the broken system in place until the true fix is ready? All you are doing is alienating your player base and acting like stuck up brats by keeping it as is. You are literally punishing your players for playing the game.
I think we’re encouraged more to not spend our adrenaline. Lets all be honest, all our burst skills mostly suck. Interestingly enough the most useful burst skill we have is on spears in water, the aoe interupt.
And then there is the fact that several traits give very nice benefits for having full adrenaline; more healing, more crit, more damage, etc.
Adrenaline burst skills needs a major overhaul imo.
Character name: B A D Omen level 80 warrior
Where I assume my story got messed up:
lv 70 story: at the point when you choose your greatest fear (leave a friend to suffer; be responsible for the death of an innocent; fail at something and lose the respect of my comrades)..
I was looking at the dreadnaught armor and I noticed that there are gaps in the armor, between the chest piece and the legs where I assume we should be able to see “skin” underneath. I don’t know if this qualifies as a game bug but this is the most expensive armor in the game so I figure it probably shouldn’t have any issues like this.
It’s hard to see in the screen shot I provide but when you are in game and rotate the preview around it’s very noticeable. It appears that the invisible areas of the armor are just on the pants. Previewing just the coat doesn’t not have the issue.
As a side note, why does the icon for the helm not match the design of the rest of the icons for the armor? The helm icon looks like it was taken straight from the crafted armors.
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I’m aware of that. There is a reason this is in the suggestions forums. I wasn’t looking for advice.
And the books only allow you to respec the first time they are used.
…out side of towns. Simple really.
Each tier would allow for a different amount of reuses. Obviously the higher one would allow more. I don’t know what a reasonable number for reuses would be, though.
Try doing the wvwvw maps. You’ll laugh until it hurts. As a level 80 I got – from the 3 borderland maps – 2 level 26 green items and 20 leather from each map. From Eternal battlegrounds, they stepped their game up a little and gave me 2 level 36 green items and 40 cotton!
Totally worth it.
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Warrior, supposedly being the “weapon master” of the classes doesn’t have any unique weapons. All of the classes have their niche so it I think it makes sense for us to have a unique weapon type or two.
I feel as though we should have 1 or 2 unique weapons only for a warrior. Maybe a two handed axe and some sort of 1 handed weapon, a spear that we can use out of water quickly comes to mind.
It just seems odd to me that we’re supposed to be weapon masters, yet, there is no unique weapon that only a warrior can “master”.
I’m 100% certain that Anet will have to eventually add new weapon types to the game for all classes in future expansions. But it would be nice to get a new type of weapon that is specifically for warriors.
I don’t think it would cause a problem with loot distribution because as it is now all classes can use all equipment and weapon types so nothing would change as far as the other classes are concerned.
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On top of all that allow stacks greater than 250 for crafting materials please. They had the same limitation in GW1 and I don’t understand why they carried that over to GW2 when it got a lot of complaints in that game.
You could always make it and transmute it something else if it doesn’t suite your taste.
Simple solution would be to go in game and ask people to link their pearl weapons, specifically the type you are after. Then you can right click and preview them in game.
To be fair none of the skills in GW1 look like they do now when GW1 first came out. The skills will likely be different several months from now and completely different from even that in a year. The same goes for traits, which they have already adjusted since release for some classes (guardian).
Still, when only one out of however many skills is only really useful. That’s kind of bad.
You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.
If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.
I disagree. When I switch from my Power/Precision/MF gear to my Power/Vitality/Toughness gear it makes a significant difference.
Yeah because magic find gear has no defensive stats on it what so ever. That’s the difference you are feeling.
It would be the same if the person was wearing berserker gear, their crits just wouldn’t hit as hard.
Berserker gear – power / precision / crit damage
Magic find gear – power / precision / magic find
There may be a variation out there that has a combination of power/toughness/vitality but I haven’t seen it if it exists.
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And I’d also like to point out that you don’t have to do the achievement all on the same character. You can do bits of pieces of it on a different character.
So make an alt, and park it in the noob areas and have it there just for events. Then do the rest of the achievement as you play regularly.
But honestly I’m having trouble believing the claim that you can’t find events being done in mid to high level areas.
Oh okay, thanks
I didn’t know it was account wide, I’ll just do that with my Warrior or something
All achievements but the personal story ones (for obvious reasons) are account wide as far as I know.
that we’ve bought.
If no one bought their game, their game doesn’t exist.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing with the whole, let’s not discriminate against those with “the wrong build” but lets face it, until they stop overtuning the explorable modes, and we stop underthinking the stats such as toughness healing power and magic find and realising they’re NOT good stats. then their initial premise of bring who and what you want profession and whatnot wise, is a load of rubbish.
magic find benefits only you, and at a detriment to your overall effectiveness, in highly tuned levels of play (which are a mess) that’s you being selfish if you bring it to that content, if you can be selfish like that, you CANNOT say that the person who is asking to view your gear to confirm you’re not wearing the stat because it is viewed as a liability to ALL 4 other party members is wrong. Nor can you simply blame them should they refuse to play with you.
I say no to BOTH, I don’t want players turned away for reasons other than pragmatic ones and legitimate ones like you’re trying to do a endgame instances in whites. And I also don’t want players ruining their own stats for a miniscule chance at a better drop and instead causing more problems for their team
If it concerns you so much a solution has already been presented and it’s the only answer you are going to get – don’t party with randoms. Random solo players by and large are only there for one persons enjoyment. And it’s not yours.
Do you guys have any kind of idea the backlash that would occur if Anet suddenly told people they can’t use gear they invested time and money to acquire in a certain way?
If you think all the threads about dungeons in the last 2 days were annoying you have no idea the kitten storm that would cause.
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Scrit. I find them hilarious. Makes me feel bad for killing them. They are just misunderstood.
And I’d also like to point out that you don’t have to do the achievement all on the same character. You can do bits of pieces of it on a different character.
So make an alt, and park it in the noob areas and have it there just for events. Then do the rest of the achievement as you play regularly.
But honestly I’m having trouble believing the claim that you can’t find events being done in mid to high level areas.
So don’t go after daily achievements then? I’ve completed the daily achievement every single day since the game was released prerelease included and I haven’t gone out of my way to do it once.
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