Guild Wars 2

Why is access to such a basic convenience being tied to how large my server is in relation to the two other servers i am fighting?

Jahn.7019:

I know the drama is great, but how about a score update

yep, here ya go.

EasymodeX.4062:

I wouldn’t suggest that ANet’s word is law on what’s acceptable. However, anything in-game that isn’t completely broken (e.g. glitching through walls), is fair game — and if ANet explicitly cites anything as unacceptable, then that’s, well, cheating. Their game after all.

In the general case, though, I don’t care if it’s “cheesy” or “cheap” or “unfair”. I feel no guilt for abusing design flaws — that’s basically my reward for applying my brain to the game design (or in various specific cases, applying group coordination to the game design).

That’s pure PvP in my book.

I used to play tabletop Warhammer 40k here locally and one thing i noticed was the guys who played with “honor” would typically just be easy kills for those of us that bound ourselves only by the exact rules of the rulebook.

This discussion is no different.

If anyone wishes to impose upon themselves a personal code of how they should play thats their personal business. Those that do not will just have that advantage. In the end its just a game and if you have fun playing under your personal umbrella of honor and fair play more power to ya. If you have fun just playing the system as it was designed and squeezing out a win any way you can within the rules then more power to ya on that as well.

Lyndis.2584:

SoS is getting demolished, lol.

:x

SOS seems to do as well as they want to do.

We’ll know thursday night if they want to be 1st, 2nd or 3rd.

I like that there are titles that are crazy hard to get.

Now they just need to add stages and smaller titles along the way.

its fine to have a million dolyak title, but we should have a title for 10, 100, and 1,000, etc.. as well.

CharlieWaffles.1509:

Thanks to Anet we could have this matchup for a long time….. Were going to be stuck on T4 together for weeks….

I wouldn’t worry about that.

If we even do all end up in T4 it won’t be but a week or two.

There is a lot of opportunity for people to move up into T4 or down into T4. Plus the match is likely to be less “close” next week if it is the same matchup.

Xaaz.8472:

This is why most JQ’s commanders have a good following and are respected by the community. PuG’s will always be a factor in WvW. how you choose to treat them and interact with them can mean the difference between winning and losing. Many people are willing to learn, our commanders are willing to teach.

As someone who has been on JQ since the first second the servers were online in the very first beta, I quite agree!

Koldblooded.6472:

Score update anyone also stuck at work

I gotcha!

jason barnes.4239:

We are all outmanned at different times on the weekend but this is more limited on a weekend as people can stay up longer, no work etc I personally never saw JQ outmanned but I don’t play on EB and nor do I likely play same timezone to you. But on a weekend we are all in the same boat. The weekend was the best WvW I have been involved with to date with great even fights against both servers at all times I was on and the scores reflected that.

“even fights” isn’t how i would describe what you are talking about with weekend fights. The numbers being equal is only part of the equation.

This is oversimplifying.

Numbers do matter in WvW but what also matters is strategy, leadership, and field presence.

A server that is sitting just barely above the queue level might have a lot easier time getting all of their coordinated people on the right maps where they are needed and working together.

A server that has an hour long queue may not have such a luxury.

I’m not claiming this is the case, but this is just one reason why such a simplistic view of “fairness in WvW” isn’t so cut and dry.

What if: You could see the WvW map while not in WvW?

Score Update it is!

Nah, thieves don’t have an overabundance of group utility. That they are good rezzers is a nice little niche for them to fill.

i’m all for a good ole-fashioned “nerf thieves to the ground plz!” thread but i can’t get behind this one. its a little too innovative.

MarMaster.6241:

This is really funny. ArenaNet is trolling us. Need that new math, stat!

what do we expect the new math to do when all servers are rated 1500 from the start?

If Anet doesn’t change the ratings to non-equal values or manually adjust the tiers/matchups no amount of new math will stop bad matchups.

I have to wonder why they didn’t just use a mathematical formula to tighten the ratings up instead of resetting them.

they seem to have this “our game will be screwed up for a couple weeks but thats OK” attitude.

some people will just stop playing the game if they can’t have fun playing WvW for a couple of weeks. they’ve shown with the ET and HOD incident they are just fine with that for some reason.

Lyndis.2584:

How does this system work again? o_O?

The answer to your question is “poorly.”

Setch.2398:

I really can’t think of a faster way to destroy wvw than getting rid of the score. Playing to win is important to most gamers imo.

The OP did not suggest getting rid of the score.

ya that would be nice.

just after release there were a lot of posts like this one.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Let’s see.

Scepter -> 1200 range, but can only hit 1 target.
Staff -> 600 range, but can hit 5 targets.

I don’t think I would go so far as to say the scepter can hit 1 target.

Vena.8436:

fivekiller.1432:

So is your answer to my question a yes or a no?

And Yak’s Bend has the population to queue 4 maps on a friday night. I have seen it happen. Maybe they are excited to actually have a decent fight for the first time in several weeks.

Quite clearly its a no.

You’re making pretty broad assumptions to even simply make a basic justification of your point while all evidence stands to reason/show that what you are saying is not the base cause of the problem. Europe didn’t have this problem last week, a hundred thousand europeans of every nationality didn’t suddenly pick up the game and start flooding their respective servers with players.

More over, reports of empty maps with multi-hour queues don’t make much sense in your argument.

I did not make a statement or an argument. Statements do not end with a question mark.

But, my question of whether the culling was causing the issue was only asked because it would in fact explain reports of empty maps with multi-hour queues.

Vena.8436:

fivekiller.1432:

maybe the queues are from everyone stacking on a couple of servers, and maybe that it looks like there are few people on the map while it is queued out is because of the new culling?

Yes, because Yak’s Bend and every euro server who are also reporting this same issue, had “everyone stack on a couple of servers”.

So is your answer to my question a yes or a no?

And Yak’s Bend has the population to queue 4 maps on a friday night. I have seen it happen. Maybe they are excited to actually have a decent fight for the first time in several weeks.

maybe the queues are from everyone stacking on a couple of servers, and maybe that it looks like there are few people on the map while it is queued out is because of the new culling?

Dyroth.5063:

Sad thing is as great as this match up this week is there is the chance it get’s destroyed next week due to point reset.

there is still plenty of time for this matchup to go haywire and end in a blowout :P

(not saying it will, but you can never predict T1 by the Saturday score. BG was winning their first recent weekend in T1 all the way until Sunday morning)

crewthief.8649:

Blackgate played well in Tier 1 the last couple of weeks. Maybe you just don’t like them.

thats pretty much it.

BG won T2 for so long a lot of hate got pushed their way from those they were fighting.

I think BG has shown they have both the skill and attitude to do as well in T1 as anyone.

T1 in NA means I will never login at any time day or night to find my world only has 10 people in WvW and we’re being spawn camped on 4 maps.

Wasn’t it bad matchups that caused the problem they are trying to fix?

How is creating more bad matchups going to yield a better end result?

Foghladha.2506:

Am I the only one that sees the HUGE note at the top of the rankings screen?

“About this site
At the end of this matchup, all ratings will be reseted (set to 1,500). ANet has not yet announced the math so the site will use the old formula and the ‘next matchup table’ may be innacurate.”

Pay attention to this part… it’s kinda important.

the ‘next matchup table’ may be innacurate."

The guy who runs http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA *DOES NOT HAVE THE NEW ALGORITHM. * Until he does nothing on that page should be taken to heart.

why dont people read anymore….. they teach us how to in kindergarten….

Shaojack’s point is valid, but bear in mind.

The bad matchups aren’t due to the ratings adjustment algorithm.. The problem stems from all servers being rated at 1500. Because of this the algorithm cannot differentiate between say, JQ beating SOR by 50k points and Ferguson’s Crossing beating ET by 50k points. It would view those wins as equivalent under any algorithm based on the 1500 rating and assign the next matchup as JQ vs. ET. (this is just a fantasy example)

Unless they adjust the ratings or tiers themselves, we WILL have bad matchups and wacky tiers next week.

Or they could maybe add weighting to each tier for the algorithm to take into account, but I doubt that is the case.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Next week’s matchups look hilarious at the moment – http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA. I know, this is not my tier’s thread, but thought I’d share because its kinda epic actually.

Maybe they know seeding them all at 1500 is a bad idea? I’m hoping its just that website that is screwed up and arenanet is smarter about it.

Conditional Love.8149:

Just though I would mention that since they reset the scores this week, it is possible JQ could go to tier2or3 next week xD

btw, Did the GW2v1-29-2013 patch have WvW related updates?

anything is possible.

right now its predicting JQ to fight anvil rock in T4 with Ehmry Bay /Yak’s Bend/Darkhaven making up Tier 1.

I think most of us expected this rating reset to be a fiasco.

Shaojack.3871:

Orbs were broke because they let the dominant server be… more dominant, plus they couldn’t stop people from hacking the orbs.

There are more solutions to the problem you outline than:

- leave them as-is
- remove them from the game

Rez.2578:

The orbs stopped servers from doing what they do now (Everyone pile on 1-2 maps if you don’t have enough to que all 4 maps and zerg the map to death.) I cringe inside when I look at the maps and Blue BL is 90% blue, Green BL is 90% Green, Red BL is 90% Red and EB is the only one with 3 way fights happening.

I think if the Orbs were brought back it might break things up and bring back 3 way fights to all BLs.

exactly.

Removing orbs removed a portion of the dynamic from WvW that added a lot of fun.

Since then the borderlands are much more stale. We really needed more meaningful things to do, not less.

Those people appeared out of nowhere!

This will not stand, they must revert this change immediately!

People appearing out of nowhere cannot be tolerated in WvW!

Veltoss.9135:

Map update below. I don’t ever want to hear JQ or SoS complaining about double teaming ever again. :p

Beastgate held both off for quite a while though.

Every server has had a turn this week.

Friday reset JQ was backed into their spawn with BG and SOS sitting all around it dividing their crap up. Many hours this was going on.

Pretty much every day the same thing has happened to SOS with BG and JQ sandwiching them.

when this happens its quite easy for a good server with a queue to get backed all the way to their spawn, what with 2 T1 queued out servers each hitting them as hard as they possibly can and ignoring one another.

I guess the lesson is, when they are helping you push out your enemy take advantage of that situation and make it happen as long as possible — you’ll be on the other end of it soon enough.

Most of us that enjoy this new culling method and prefer it aren’t flocking to the forums to complain.

Just because there are a lot of disgruntled people making posts (which is going to be the case as long as culling is even an issue) does not mean things should be reverted.

ChocPudding.6128:

That too…BUT! They got a lot of transfers too. If JQ got the most, then SoR would come second. They also got the most critical reinforcement that all servers will die for.

Oceanics -> Aussies!!!

They got the majority of EBay’s NA as well.

SOR was already stacked to the brim with NA weren’t they?

As far as oceanics though, they had a healthy grouping of them before when BG was beating them before they moved to SOS and BG.

still, even if they are completely stacked with oceanics like SOS — I don’t have to tell you that a server can’t simply ride its NA and Oceanic teams to victory in T1, no matter how stacked those teams are.

The other half of the day matters a lot in T1. When all those SEA and European players are around.

sostronk.8167:

When everyone else in WvW sees that scoreboard, does it upset you to know that you have been working hard for those small stat increases, whilst players in PvE are still getting those stat increases and not doing anything to get them?

I pvp for the fun and sport of it.

I’m happy my more PVE focused brothers and sisters get some benefit from it.

my build is centered around the weapons i am already using so no.

Everyone already merged onto JQ, BG, and SOS.

Some went to SOR, Kaineng, and FA, TC, DB, and Maguuma.

Someone suggested in another thread that the dolyak be immune to damage (maybe righteous indignation instead) until its NPC guards are killed.

A good solution as it adds usefulness to the guard upgrade and helps eliminate the ease with which thieves can gank a dolyak even when it is guarded by player characters.

I don’t think this was the “culling fix” patch.

I think this was just the “implement the temp models and reinstate the December test culling” patch.

jojojoon.8607:

Liquid.9672:

Sorry, I’m a bit thick in the head, but what exactly did you call?

Based on his quote, he said BG will lose rating points and drop to tier 2. It looks like his prediction will most likely happen since SOS is gaining points on BG. I think once the transfer deadline passes, SOS will field their full force and overtake BG. BG will probably end up 3rd with SOS and JQ battling for 1st.

BG isn’t in any real danger of losing rating.

Nobody has to lose rating to get bumped out of T1 right now.

Someone is getting bumped, even if they gain rating.

actually SOS/BG is closer than Kain/FA

OutsspokenAardvark has a good point and good advice.

But only Zuer’s advice actually works in practice.

Taking the high road, doing whats best for the game as a whole, becoming part of the solution etc.. it isn’t what most people do — as such if you want to have even fights for the most part you just have to hop on the bandwagon.

Did someone say score update?

And a few weeks ago the point difference between T7 and T8 was only 8 points.

If you want to argue the problem is only with T8 and not systematic then I see no reason to further your cause, best of luck!

its a problem with every tier, though it may seem worse in T8.

the math behind their rating system seems a little wonky.

look at SOR in T2 last week.. they had a huge blowout and still didn’t move up with almost double 2nd place and triple 3rd place. And the server above them lost by 50-60k.

its just the way it is everywhere. Arenanet for some reason doesn’t see a problem.

don’t trust millenium.

you will most likely be fighting JQ/SOS.

there is a possibility SOS could be the one to drop. at the same time there is a possibility TC will get a flood of transfers tomorrow and stack the server and go all +600ppt on you guys.

I’m not sure SOR is going to find T1 much fun when they get here anyways.

….

why don’t you find a commander or ask in map chat if there is someone who wants the donations.

or just be completely lazy and drop them off at the portal to EB.

you know.. help your server out rather than deleting them?

Well with SOR fighting a dud and getting all this free rating, someone is dropping to T2.

Its just a race to not be that guy at this point.

I was just curious so I averaged out the WvW ratings over the past few months in excel.

I thought i’d share, maybe someone will find it interesting. The final Average score for each server is in the attached image. This was only done for my own amusement.

Also, heres a link to the google doc that has all the data for ratings from each week.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5wGv1QZ5hHdFhCOG1IUEdxX3BmNEMtS001VmI4ZXc#gid=0

These numbers were all obtained from http://mos.millenium.org

Score update!