Guild Wars 2

Dristig.9678:

Do you realize you are arguing that a Zerker build with Strength runes is “tanky” ?

All I’m saying is that when you run with your defensive stats this low you will have to get off point while waiting for backup. That isn’t even up for debate.

I never said zerker is tanky.
What I said was: even if you have a tankier amulet than that, you can’t stay on point against two or more opponents.
Will you die faster with less defensive stats? Of course. But you make it sound like some extra defensive stats is the difference between having to leave a point or staying on it for as long as it takes until help arrives. That is simply wrong. You can run the tankiest build ever and two non-bunkers will still either kill you or force you off point.

Holl.3109:

Just a fun build – don’t expect to see this in the next ESL X)

Just when I was getting my hopes up :P

Dristig.9678:

Around 7:20 is a good example. He does it immediately after “Suffer” which already transferred his conditions.

He didn’t use Suffer at 7:20. Putrid Mark, yes, but in that case it was definitely a preventive measure in anticipation of getting condis either by the necro or the ele, he was very low on health afterall.

Dristig.9678:

As far as the 1vX thing goes that isn’t really true because I said ON POINT. There are plenty of builds that can survive 1vX on point until help gets there.

Yes, if that help is 10 seconds away.
If those 2+ opponents properly focus and pressure, there is no way you can bunker a point for a significant amount of time, regardless of class or build.

Dristig.9678:

You also really need to stop spamming Staff 4. I love your videos and watch them all but man you waste your condition transfer almost every fight.

The only times I’ve seen him do that was when there was no point in preserving Putrid’s cooldown because the fight was already won.

Dristig.9678:

In all of your 1vX fights you started losing and had to get off point until friends arrived.

There is not a single class or build that could pull this off unless those vX opponents are bad.

Nemesis.8593:

Actually…. i am the original creator of that “old power death shroud necro build” which was first published 3 years ago.

Other people have taken my build and made a pretty guide about it which then sold to Dulfy without my knowledge or consent.

In gw2’s build system there’s only a very limited amount of trait+gear combinations that make sense. If you couple that with the huge player base in this game, it’s rather presumptuous to think you could be the only and first person to come up with a certain build. And what you most definitely can’t do is claim some kind of copyright and sulk when other people publish PvE guides that happen to use a similar trait combo.

Also, you’re clearly referring to spoj, but spoj always promoted dagger over Shroud as the best dps option, so he never had a “power death shroud build” anyway.

Bhawb.7408:

flow.6043:

Since you don’t have to spend points in traitlines anymore, assuming that GM traits need to be better than others is pointless.

This would be true, if ANet didn’t specifically make it not true by designating GM traits to be more impactful. The fact is that GM traits ARE meant to be more powerful than any other traits because that is how ANet has decided they want their system to work.

Well, I’ve heard them say such things in some of their streams, but regardless of what Anet or anyone else thinks, it still is a pointless distiction.
Also, to some degree there has to be a designation of gms being stronger, but only as a remnant of the old system. So maybe when they want to buff a grandmaster trait because they don’t deem it “gm-worthy”, they really mean: this trait can be chosen for a slot that used to require a heavy point investment in our old system, and we need to make adjustments in order for it to be an equally viable choice as its two alternatives. And all of those three traits happen to be in a spot that is called grandmaster, that is still its name today but it might as well be called the apple tier. Either way, even though it is pointless, for the sake of simplifying the explanations, let’s just keep saying adept<master<gm.

Dignified Loser.7689:

They’re certainly not bad, just not GM worthy

Since you don’t have to spend points in traitlines anymore, assuming that GM traits need to be better than others is pointless.

Dignified Loser.7689:

Spiteful Spirit: It was touched on this patch, but it doesn’t offer anything to sell itself as more useful than Signets of Suffering

Unless you don’t use signets.

Sidenote regarding this patch: Removing the cd should’ve been done in the very first place, so shaving those 2 seconds off a shroud flash rotation wasn’t really a great buff but the only sensible thing to do.
Also, this skill split actually came with a nerf as well, because now Spiteful Spirit does less direct damage than Unholy Feast. Apparently Anet thought it was too strong…

Fenris Amarok.4052:

core necromancer also had a lot of other roles it can play. Comdi scepter, minion master tank, etc.

Are you saying condi scepter and MM can’t be used by Reapers?

Fenris Amarok.4052:

Death shroud is far from needing to be fixed.

Fix? No. Buff? Yes, because RS is better than DS.

Not only am I disappointed that DS didn’t get any substantial buffs (piercing LB… pls), but I’m almost more surprised that they didn’t rework Unyielding Blast.
2x vuln for Shroud 1, seriously, who is supposed to use this?
Now, if you pick Soul Reaping, you either have a staff or the choice between 3 equally useless traits.

Ravezaar.4951:

no buffs to GS,Focus or Axe

That was somewhat to be expected since non of those weapons were mentioned in their preview last week. But it’s still disappointing seeing how those weapons probably needed more attention than scepter/dagger.

We are Corruptomancers now!

I’m positively surpised by some of those changes.
Also, stealth fix: interrupted wells don’t go on full cd anymore.

Rickster.8752:

Ds 4 Now grants 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when this skill is started
Ds 5 Now gives off 6 stacks of poison, 2 per pulse, in addition to the torment stacks

I’d rather have that stability on DS 5.
RS doesn’t only come with much longer and pulsing stability, but the really good thing about it is that you’re free to do other stuff, like stomping, rezzing or casting other skills.
If you put stability on DS 4 you’re basically blocking the entire stability uptime with the channeling of Life Transfer.
Tainted Shackles, on the other hand, has a short cast time so a 3x 5 sec stability would actually be usable in more ways, including an uninterruped DS 4.

Ragion.2831:

If you’ve been following Anet’s practices you will know that they have no intention of making DS as good as RS. Doing that would make RS not an elite.

You’re misunderstanding something here.
“Elite” is just the name. It’s not supposed to be better, but an alternative.
And in case you didn’t see the last stream, they are actually going to buff Death Shroud.

Ragion.2831:

When they announced the Elite lines i initially thought that there was going to be an elite slot where everyone will have to pick an elite line in addition to the 3 cores. So in future they would release more Elite lines and then we would get to swap them out, since each would change the class in some way fundamentally. why did i give so much money to completely illogical designers.

Illogical design?

First of all, they made it very clear from the moment they announced the expansion that the new specs wouldn’t be a 4th spec to have in addition to the 3 cores.
Secondly, in a game where buying the expansion is optional and where HoT plus non-HoT players would mix in pvp, why would they allow one part of the player base to have this huge advantage over those who didn’t purchase the expansion? That would be the definition of pay to win.

Duuuuuuuude…. 6k applied condis and over 2 million damage in total? What the hell kind of match was that? And don’t give me some “it’s not that hard…”, those numbers are rediculous even if you non-stop aoe mesmer clones for 15 min. :P

I’m almost more impressed by the 3.5k applied conditions :o

I can join the 1-million club!

MadCatSadPet.7649:

I run the carrion frostfire meta. ( 3 signets, wurm )

This is the problem, I think. That build simply has a disadvantage against DHs.
You might be fine though with a few tweaks, for example: use Well of Power instead of Flesh Wurm. Or use Consume Conditions instead of Vamp Signet. Or switch to a more offensive amulet, like Viper, because you might be lacking some counter pressure.

Sandrox.9524:

Swiftness>Stability>Protection>Regeneration>Might>Retaliation>Fury>Vigor

Would you mind sharing how you figured out this particular order?
Just in case you didn’t know, this is from the June 23, 2015 patch:
Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

soldier is the only viable pvp power build we got

Not true.

But if you want something similar, the new Paladin’s amulet is going to have power/prec/tough/vit.

Good idea, makes sense.
Although, pve necros probably wouldn’t be happy to lose the stat bonus. And icds ruin traits, but other than that it’s a solid suggestion.

Zefrost.3425:

Spiteful Spirit sucks because Unholy Feast sucks.

Spiteful Spirit doesn’t suck for several reasons, one of them being that Unholy Feast is a good skill.

Zefrost.3425:

I used a bruiser build for a long time that used spiteful spirit but then I started to seriously question why I use such a bruiser type build. Ultimate conclusion I came to: Signets offer more survivability and better boon corruption than this special snowflake build that I like.

Your build that didn’t use signets was bad, then you changed your build to signets.
Cool story. What does Spiteful Spirit have to do with any of it?

Zefrost.3425:

This will be even more landslide into scepters favor if we seriously get boon corruption on its auto attack. The pathetic 1 boon corruption on unholy feast shouldn’t even be a thing. The impact on a fight from that boon corrupt is so no non-factor that you can’t even notice the corrupt unless you are fighting opponents that are already bad. Even if the only boon that the opponent (somehow) has is stability, it’s going to do squat. 1s of fear is nothing lol.

First of all, you’re incredibly ignorant in regards to the impact that even a single corrupted boon can have on the outcome of a fight.
Secondly, fear is a stun, you know. Even if it’s just 1 second, interrupting a skill or stomp or rez by using a corruption skill isn’t nothing.

Zefrost.3425:

2 years ago when the game at least had some balance to it.

Come on, don’t go full hipster. 2 years ago was much worse than today, especially the necro’s balance.

Zefrost.3425:

My favourite was unholy feast or the old spiteful spirit (gain retaliation entering death shroud) then enter death shroud against sword/pistol thief. Butted their low health pool every time.

How is this different today?

Zefrost.3425:

I feel like ghastly claws and our axe auto are pretty good, honestly. The problem is unholy feast… it’s a damage loss all the time.

Unholy Feast is a damage loss over the auto attack?
Even if that was true, that’s not the point of Unholy Feast. You use it to cripple, corrupt and get retaliation, the damage is just a bonus.

Zefrost.3425:

On that note, I would also like to see our warhorn trait change the warhorns daze into a fear.

No. Daze > fear.

By “rip axe power necro” are you implying that after the patch power builds would rather use a condi weapon than an axe? Not that the axe was that popular to begin with…

Anyway, arguably the scepter needs the least amount of help out of all our weapons. So while it is rather surprising that they would improve an already solid weapon, it does give hope that other weapons will be buffed as well.

kybraga.7103:

Make Unholy Feast the old Feast of Corruption on Scepter?

That makes no sense, it would be worse in every single way.
Unless you mean that the current version of Unholy Feast should be buffed to generate life force and hit harder for every condi on your target?

I think most people just want more finishers on axe (whirl on Ghastly Claws, blast on Unholy Feast).

Lingering Curse impacts the base duration of scepter skills. It isn’t a true extension of your condition duration, but rather a trait that changes the skills into different ones.
On the other hand you have boon corruptions. They are a seperate entity, uniform accross all skills, rather than being specific to a certain weapon. So even though the conditions you inflict by converting boons are subject to your condition duration stat, they will not be extended by Lingering Curse.

Wow a 2-year thread bump, you could’ve just created a new one at this point :P

Anyway, I still use those runes and I also use Curses and Blood Magic. The raven attack’s direct damage + Vamp siphons + Barbed Precision procs do about 3-4k single target damage.
A very underrated rune for all necros who don’t use transformation elites.

JollyDoctor.5738:

Is Zojja’s armor the best way to go? And it’s for PvP.

Just when you think it can’t get more confusing…
There is no armor in PvP. Well, of course your wear armor, but only for esthetic reasons. However, it’s pointless to make distinctions between ascended and lower tier stat prefixes because you get your stats by picking an amulet in your build editor.

Sheobix.8796:

On top of this, to get the healing+protection+cooldown modifier on your wells, you have to invest 2 traits to wells entirely, which both have pretty good (and ones i personally find better) alternative traits to choose from imho.

There is just one well trait, Vampiric Rituals.

Sheobix.8796:

I just see running wells as a surefire way of letting pretty much any condition build that dominates the meta to faceroll over you since you’ll be lacking transfers/cleanse except maybe WoP if you sit in it to bathe.

Depends on the build. In mine I also have Putrid Mark, Consume Conditions and Plague Sending.

Sheobix.8796:

But in the current meta there is a very distinct range of skill viability and I don’t currently see WoC fitting that range unless you’re running a very specific type of build for it that somehow features all their best effects at a reliable winrate.

Let’s just say the reason I run my build over a cele or carrion signet build is because I consider it to be stronger, especially in the current meta.
(too bad there’s an NA/EU split, else I could just convince you in game)

Sheobix.8796:

I don’t think WoC should get nerfed.. I don’t think it should get major huge buffs though

I agree.
The only thing I wish for is for them to fix the bug that causes interrupted wells to go on full cooldown.

That was a joy to watch.
I also liked the endless-fight-type of editing without showing the stomps.

Sheobix.8796:

All those statements about WoC are if people stand in it for the whole duration.

Which is why I said “up to”.

Sheobix.8796:

I’ve seen it used somewhat reliably, but is best capitalized in a double or full well build

My third utility skill is Well of Power.
And no, I don’t run a well build, WoC and WoP just happen to be good skills regardless.

Sheobix.8796:

The protection lasts for how long? 3 seconds? so about 1.5 cleave hits, which is a wasted GM trait imo versus transfusion.

How do you get 1.5 cleave hits from that duration? And how high is the damage from those 2 hits? I think you’re presuming quite a lot at this point.
Here’s an example: WoC is placed on an opponent and yourself or an ally, it corrupts might into weakness and you also blast the dark field with Putrid Mark for blindness. Now before you say a single WoC hit is a waste and Putrid Mark should only be used for transfers or whatever… no, this is a realistic scenario and it happens all the time.
So those “1.5 cleaves” you were talking about would really be one miss and one glancing blow against a target with protection. Needless to say, the avoided damage here can far exceed the healing value of Transfusion. And keep in mind that during those 3 sec of protection you can actually use different skills, Transfusion on the other hand is tied to the most easily interrupted channeled skill in game which lasts 3 sec all by itself. Plus, it has zero value in 1v1s (unless you’re using minions, but then you wouldn’t have the option to use wells anyway).

Sheobix.8796:

I’ve seen at best maybe 10% LF from WoC generated and as I said, realistically 3-4 ticks, …

also, keep in mind those ideal numbers are usually the result of a well placed well. I don’t think any of us can say we’re so perfect as to get it in right every time which cheapens its use in the bar over another skill even more.

You’re seriously underestimating WoC.
I’d say 10% lf is a low average if you drop it on a capture point during a team fight, especially when there are minions, pets, gyros, clones etc. And in many more examples than the one above, WoC can have high value even if most of its pulses miss completely.

Rym.1469:

removing up to 25 boons

30 actually, the duration is 5 sec but it pulses 6 times.

Jelzouki.4128:

Competitive play? I’m sorry I haven’t seen well of corruption used in competitive play since the day nos was forced to use power necro.

Well of corruption is good for power builds. Sadly why play a power reaper when you can do so much more on a power revenant. Slotting corrupt boon on a build that uses blood magic is just so so so terrible.

First of all, both Corrupt Boon and WoC (especially when traited) are good in any build.
Secondly, I’m assuming you’re on NA? Otherwise you’d have see me in PvP every once in a while, and I use both of those skills with Blood Magic.

The point is, Kuper doesn’t use signets, so when you ask him to change Spiteful Spirit to Signets of Suffering you’re really asking him to change the entire build.
As for Spiteful Spirit vs Close to Death, that’s a different story. I will say, however, that lining up the cds of Shroud and Unholy Feast only matters if you spend less than 2 seconds in Shroud, which isn’t all that likely to happen especially with a power build.

Jelzouki.4128:

I also think spiteful spirit is useless compared to signets.

…unless you don’t use signets.

Sheobix.8796:

But yes, WoC is lackluster because corrupt boon is instant and does more for the condi necro than WoC does. Why you would ever slot WoC for competitive play? I do not know.

I use WoC in addition to Corrupt Boon. Also, I use Blood Magic, so in this case WoC primarily serves a defensive purpose rather than just corrupting boons. More specifically, not only does WoC have the potential to corrupt more boons than CB (even on single targets), but it also gives aoe protection and it generates up to 30% life force and ~5k hp. Bottom line: Blood Magic makes WoC one of the best skills to have in competitive play.

Well done, sir.
Also, power Reaper > condi Reaper, just don’t tell donee. ;P

Muchacho.2390:

flow.6043:

For special emphasis, this is simply wrong.

Well no it isnt wrong. Yes DS is most effective in a 600 range but still, it can be used up to 1200 range. With a max range of 1200, i find it hard to say DS is not a ranged shroud…

Also, while close to it, 600 range is technically still not melee thus i would consider it ranged (mid ranged if you will).

I know what the up-to range values of Death Shroud are, but that doesn’t mean that Death Shroud is exclusively used at this range. Quite the contrary, the playstyle with Death Shroud is pretty much as melee as Reaper. Not just because – as already pointed out by gavyne – Life Blasts at 600+ range are a waste of life force, but usually you simply don’t have the choice of staying at range at all. Maybe you have to hold/capture a point, maybe your opponent uses gap closers, or maybe you’re up against a kiting opponent (ranger, mesmer,…) that you have to force into melee in order to beat them.
Also, remember that you actually have two weapon sets, one of them probably being a dagger and a warhorn since a power build is the only thing that makes sense when you’re even remotely considering Life Blasts at 600+ range. Of course you don’t walk back and forth as go in and out of DS. Instead, lowest common denominator: the dagger’s range, and this is where you’ll spend most of your time during a fight.
And this is not at all a disadvantage for your time spent in DS. Even though you might have high range on some DS skills, the highest offensive pressure is available at close range. And as it happens, melee range is also where Death Shroud is usually used for its main purpose: a defensive tool. Why? because melee range is where most other classes are strongest as well.
For example: Class X moves super close to you, that probably means you can expect some sort of burst. When you go into DS to absorb this damage, naturally you will apply any follow up counter pressure right away, at melee range, instead of walking away first in order to land some weak sauce Life Blasts at 1200 range.

TLDR: staying at range with Death Shroud is either impossible, counterproductive or wishful thinking.

Since you’re playing Reaper the argument is pointless anyway. But the way you’re describing core necro sounds like you’re a liability to your team even though you’re fighting the worst opponents in game.

chibbi.3706:

Death shroud is mostly a range shroud

For special emphasis, this is simply wrong.

Oh sorry, obviously I didn’t see you say decent positioning, which is totally possible in any PvP match instead of actually fighting on capture points and stuff. You know what will avoid even 100% of all cc? Being afk at spawn.

Just to make it clear, from what you described it sounds like you’re being carried by your team mates while you’re standing as far away as possible so you can sprinkle in the occasional Life Blast. With that kind of mentality you might as well play rifle warrior.

To sum it up:
1. You will always need stability, because…
2. Death Shroud is not a “range shroud”.
3. Even if it was (but it isn’t) every other class has gap closers and/or ranged stuns.
4. And in the unlikely case that you are actually allowed to free cast at range (which is only possible against bad opponents) you are neither capturing nor holding a point.

So the problem in regards to cc-free positioning might not come from you, but this way you are definitely a problem for your team.

chibbi.3706:

You don’t need stability in death shroud

wrong

chibbi.3706:

since it’s a range shroud.

wrong

chibbi.3706:

With decent positionning and/or dodges you barely ever gets cc’d while at range

wrong

chibbi.3706:

I only need stability when i’m going in with reaper shroud to cleave/stomp/aoe.

wrong

chibbi.3706:

Talking purely about PvP here.

All of what you said would’ve made just a little more sense if you were talking about PvE.

OlliX.1705:

A source of stability would be nice too, but that could be from utilities or something instead of shroud.

If you want to buff Death Shroud then no, it could not come from utilities, especially since utility skills can’t be used in Shroud. Also, a non-Shroud stability source would be available to Reapers as well, so either you’re buffing an already popular skill with stability, in which case both core necro and Reaper would take it and the gap wouldn’t be closer at all. Or it’s a bad or mediocre skill that Reapers wouldn’t take because they get a ton of stability for free, but then you’re forcing core necros to sacrifice a utility slot for this particular bad or mediocre skill just so they can get somewhere close to the stability of RS.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If Life Blast attacked faster and Dark Path travelled faster, it would really be a tossup between the two.

For me the stability on RS would still be the clear tie breaker. DS will always be inferior unless it gets at least some small amount of stability somewhere.

rager.4963:

What does core necro offer over reaper?

A combination of 3 core specializations.

guildabd.6529:

Well of Corruption alone dominates WvW fights since it’s unblockable and cannot be dodged while it converts stability to fear.

You mean the WvW fights where 50 people run around with perma-every-boon? And when a necro happens to hit 5 people out of those 50 with WoC, and out of those 1 million boons floating around the rng gods deem stability to be first priority once in a while…. that makes WoC “dominate”??
And you do realize that making this boon corrupting skill blockable would then also make it blockable by aegis, a boon?

Rym.1469:

This game isn’t balanced around zerg fights.

And if it was they’d have to double or even tripple WoC’s pulse frequency and duration.

I still play core necro, not for Death Shroud though.

The impact on 1v1s would be little to non. What they are cautious about (wrongly so) is scaling in team fights.

CynicalFred.9135:

As it turns out, as far as i can tell it was changed about 2 years ago. I probably just stopped using it because they made it worthless (to me, all i ever took it for was the stability) and then i remembered that the last time i used it, it pulsed stability and forgot that they changed it and that, that’s why i don’t use it anymore.

Well of Power was made a stunbreak in June 2013, that’s when they added that 1 sec of stability to cover the cast time. It never had any more stability than that, neither before nor after the stunbreak change, and it certainly never had pusling stability that covered the entire uptime of the well.
So the real answer to your question is: you’re remembering it wrong.

Reknarok.7582:

asura

literally no other race is better

Is it opposite day again? :o

spoj.9672:

who the hell wants to be a giant smelly fat cat.

Let me state the obvious first: charr are the best.
Not just the best necros, but the best in general really. So if you happen to have a charr necro you can congratulate yourself on having the best class-race combination there is.

Some people refer to charr as “fat cats”, of course this is pure jealousy talking.
The likes of spoj’s female human character would very much like to grow the same furry thicket all over their neck and chest like a proper charr. Sadly, at best they can produce some armpit hair with a secret setting in hairstyle kits. On occasion you’re even able to observe spoj as he uses an Aviator’s Memory Box to let his freshly grown armpit manes wave in the currents of the wind, just so he can pretend to be one of the most majestic creatures in all of tyria: a charr.

As for the “smelly” comment, you make it sound like a bad thing, when it is actually a great strategic advantage.
I’ll have you know that in preperation for PvP my charr avoids any type of area that involves swimming. Obviously only my bristling fur allows me to cultivate and exude the type of feline stench that nauseates my opponents before the fight has even started. And if I work up a good sweat my odor becomes so ripe that I can auto proc poison clouds and locust swarms!

As you can see: style and power, charr truly are the whole package.

…if not two buffs

Dimes.6024:

stupid post :P

stupid reply :P

Dimes.6024:

2. function gyro is one of the best things to happen – you can double revive, or stomp+make a pressure on downstate so he wouldnt get up

Which is one of the reasons why Sneak Gyro is so op, considering it’s the only gyro anyone is currently using.
But I concede the point that you wouldn’t be able to use this trait with 3 core specs, of course.

Dimes.6024:

3. adaptive armor is one of the things that helps us to deal with our gratest weakness all the time – condi, so now we have a chance against necros

Overrated. Reduction doesn’t mean immunity, especially against necros it’s either cleanse or die.

Dimes.6024:

4. hammer is like powerbased p/s with blocks, reflects, cc, movement speed/avades and even good damage

All of those you can get from other sources as well. And you might argue that having those on one weapon is more convenient, but for example switching between rifle and Tool Kit for a leap and block isn’t that much work either.

1. Sneak Gyro

…the end.

Seriously though, I know the hammer is nice and you get Rapid Regen and whatever, but let’s assume you could have gyros with 3 core specs, would anyone still feel compelled to go Scrapper if you could have the op-as-hell Sneak Gyro with a core engi?

Uberkafros.5431:

Fractals and Pve

If anything the question should be Sinister vs Viper, and the answer is Viper.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sinister-vs-Viper

Definitely not intentional.

Not sure if this was a known issue already, but I made a bug report here .
So fyi, all wells go on full cooldown if they are interrupted or canceled.
Obviously this is supposed to happen with Well of Power since it’s a stun break, but the other three wells behave the same way. Not sure since when, but I’ve had this happen more frequently past week(s?) in pvp matches so I finally checked up on it.