Another factor is that if people used their brain in creating their builds and optimized crit damage placement, but didn’t go full zerker, those characters are going to see a more drastic reduction in crit damage.
For example, if the ratio is 14 pts of ferocity to 1% crit damage, an ascended zerker ring will be reduced from 8% crit damage to 4.86% crit damage.
I expect my crit damage is going to drop from 84% to 42%. (About 11% damage reduction)
I think at 1:1400 (1:14 when using ) crit damage on ascended gear would go from 71 to 53%
Just a question, when you evade a backstab from a stealthed thief you see ‘evaded’. Is this different with blocking, you don’t see anyhting when blocking a backstab? I have no access to blocking, so I am asking here.
Everyone exchanging gold for gems is essentially paying, or at least helping them earn money with the gem-shop.
Buy something benign like transmutation crystals (who hasn’t), ding, these gems were bought with real money – even when you buy them with in-game gold.
Pistol and a burst? That would be Dagger (most likely) or Sword main hand and Pistol offhand. Pistol/Pistol main is possibly but rare. You can run a power build on any weaponset, but Pistol/Dagger is happier when you mix in lots of Condition Damage, or go full Condition. If your weapon provides stealth it may be wise to trait deep into Shadow Arts, otherwise at least 15 Acrobatics. The rest in Critical Strikes, Trickery and/or Deadly Arts – each has it’s specific merits.
You don’t understand that 1vx and “how counter need to work” i suggest to read the analysis Aegael.6938 did in page 2.
I understand the OP wants to give inexperienced players a class based counter against good players on thieves so they can ‘rightfully’ down this thief. In my opinion that should never happen.
I have high expectations in the rune/sigil rework to up my thievery, waiting for Superior Sigil of Zen – 50% reduction of tunnel vision, 75% if the target’s HP reaches 10%.
As long as it isn’t more trench-coats. Where GW1 was lacking in long coats, GW2 has too many of them. Perhaps they could rework a couple of GW1 designs for GW2.
Second try finished, had to swim to the surface fighting undead sharks in cramped space, then suddenly undead sharks were running thriugh the sewer. Was better then fighting underwater but, weird.
But you think it’s unfair when a, possibly experienced thief, takes a couple of inexperienced players for a ride. There are many videos of non-thieves doing 1vX.
I invite you to make a thief and try roaming in Wvw and score some points for a couple of days, with S/P or P/P, or whatever stealth-less build you think works and then form your opinion.
I suggest the same for you.
I am leveling a ranger and plan to take her into Wvw. There are many videos of non-thieves doing 1vX, so you don’t have to wait for me.
Meanwhile, since you want to play the mirror game and I don’t claim class x is easy to play I suggest people who don’t play thieves shut up claiming it is easy to play a thief.
moreover these thief in tpvp can play at the top lv without perma stealth. if you say your stealth is only way you can stay alive . I suggest you to go L2P in spvp more.
I am sure there are some very good stealth-less thieves in sPvP, but not every player plays at god level and us non-godlike players would like to play on a more or less even field with other non-godlike players. We know we’re not gods, that’s why we’ll quit our thieves if it’s skill floor is raised too high in comparison with the classes the other noobs get to play.
I invite you to make a thief and try roaming in Wvw and score some points for a couple of days, with S/P or P/P, or whatever stealth-less build you think works and then form your opinion.
We can’t have a normal discussion when speaking about thief…
The problem is that most ‘suggestions’ are usually outrageously unreasonable.
But you should ask yourself, why are that many D/P-D/D thiefs and PU mesmers in OS ?
OS is rather empty. I see a ranger and guardian, the ranger’s bear scares the guardian away. Another guardian enters, he duels the ranger. The ranger goes down. He leaves, as does the guardian. A mesmer enters, and a guardian. Unfortunately they’re on the same team. They leave.
You can really draw some solid conclusions about the popularity of these builds and classes in OS.
I tended to use Hearty only because I got tired of people ragging on me for being “yet another ranger with a dead pet”.
Pet’s are usually the last to die, and in H&H groups you’d rarely die anyway. But yeah, arrogant pug healers tend to ignore pets, but then a ‘heel’ once in a while would be enough to loose aggro and avoid damage.
I used to train them outside Icetooth cave way before the release of EotN, You could get them aggressive fast enough there and then complete the training in the desert mission with all the minotaurs.
Dire pets dealt around 30% more damage then Hearty pets, I think, quite worth the effort. They also had lower health which helped a bit in getting aggro on them.
… when they fight me, they would always stay to fight to the death but when i see them fight somebody else, what they do is they will use black powder+hs 2×...
Just curious, how did you know it’s the same player?
he kept coming back to the same spot where i was standing. i think he really wanted vengeance and redeem himself from getting butt-kicked by a zerker ranger and i wasnt that rude not to provide him a lesson.
But was it the same guy that fought the group you mentioned? It seems odd that’d be less cautious against someone who’d beaten him before then against an unknwon group.
Then again, you might also have presented an opportunity to learn something new.
there should always be a limit to everything. i think we have already established that thieves that use dagger/pistol stealth a bit too much. it’s not fun that it takes too much time trying to find a perma-stealth thief in your keep.
Maybe you should be worried about the mesmers, they can portal an army inside. And to be honest I think it’s these little tactical details that make the format interesting, searching the garrison for thieves and mesmers is more fun then zerg blasting doors and lords.
it maybe fun for you because you are a thief but it’s definitely not fun for other classes that dont have the same utilities like you do. going in and out of stealth for as many as you like is not ok in my book.
You misunderstand, I find it fun searching the keep, which is a more immersive activity in this war-setting then zerg blasting the keep’s lord. The utilities of my thief have zero impact on this. You cannot seriously believe it is easier to search a keep for spies with a thief.
On a side note, Rangers actually have utilities to track down stealthed characters, thieves do not.
there should always be a limit to everything. i think we have already established that thieves that use dagger/pistol stealth a bit too much. it’s not fun that it takes too much time trying to find a perma-stealth thief in your keep.
Maybe you should be worried about the mesmers, they can portal an army inside. And to be honest I think it’s these little tactical details that make the format interesting, searching the garrison for thieves and mesmers is more fun then zerg blasting doors and lords.
… when they fight me, they would always stay to fight to the death but when i see them fight somebody else, what they do is they will use black powder+hs 2×...
Just curious, how did you know it’s the same player?
I was like “ooooookay” and i never returned wvw. But i really wanna try it, so can someone help me? Already read a lot of guides but it’s still confusing, i really dunno what to do when in wvw. Any tips?
Kill enemy Dolyaks and protect your own, flip camps, scare of enemy players and help your people and friendly NPC’s. Notify your server about enemy blob movement, or stall them when they zerg your keeps. Join a zerg when one passes, watch what they do, help build siege and scare of enemy blobs.
Play around with siege equipment present in keeps, figure out how they work and why they might be build were they are.
That’s a hen/egg problem. People stack massive conditions counters because conditions are so abundant, easily applied and powerful.
Make conditions less so and people will stack less counters because other choices become more attractive.
And there’s the paradoxic of strong conditions indirectly boosting power builds. More condition threat → more condition counter in builds → less power counters in builds → more threat from power builds
Strong conditions keep people from escalating builds into a power-only ‘arms-race’.
In most other MMOs a multi target repeatable snare would be an excellent skill and thieves shouldn’t discard it so readily just to suit the current status of SPvP.
What are you saying, it’s an underestimated skill or should initiative be spend anyway on it because it would be a great skill in othet MMO’s?
How about you just wait, stick to your server and see how it goes?
Or, ask support, you know, maybe they’ll do a transfer for you, seeing as you’re really moving irl and not just ‘server-hopping’.
well, so you just want these thieves to continue abusing stealth?
Stealth is the precondition to everything.
Are you willing to drop being in stealth as precondition for Sneak Attack, Backstab, Tactical Strike and every other stealth attack? More so, drop all ‘behind the target’ preconditions as it’s rather unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to get behind a target when you’re visible.
Are you prepared to make Shadows Rejuvenation, Shadow’s Embrace and all other ‘while in stealth’ traits work without stealth?
No? I didn’t think so.
The thief’s in-combat Stealth comes from Cloak And Dagger. Dodge it, blind it, block it, interrupt it, even just kite it and the stealth-thief looses both offense and defence. Like so many other players in Wvw who have learned to counter it, these players you were protecting trying to roam the Borderlands should simply learn to fight the thief themselves and not rely on anet to give them an I-win button.
i say the number of stealths that a thief can execute in wvw needs a lot of shaving. noone should be able to beat 3 or more people at the same time. you call that OP’ness. i can understand when someone wins a 1v2 battle, thats skills but when it’s 1v3 victory, that is just overpowered and lame.
No it’s not, it’s lacking player skills. These guys that got eaten are not on your level of competence and they shouldn’t be protected from players on your level, even thieves, by altering game mechanics.
That is not balancing, balancing is giving equally skilled players an equal playing ground using different classes. It should not give less skilled players the upper hand against a better skilled one, even when he is on a thief, or even when they are outnumbering him.
it’s a 2 sec of protection which is almost useless and you have to trait for that heavily.
Stealth is almost useless unless you trait for it to heal and remove conditions. Stealth doesn’t give any protection at all, you can hit someone in stealth. Players I encounter know quite well how to deal with it.
you dont compare how hard it is to play a ranger
I play a ranger too.
when i see a thief alone, i make sure i kill him so he could not faceroll other roamers like me. i’ve seen a thief kill 3 people. do you think that’s fair?
Yes. Why not? There is a huge spread in player skill, some people kill you, some are unkillable and some just stand around and melt even when you’re on the wrong setup for roaming.
It’s great that you ‘protect’ your fellow players but there is no reason to turn thieves into free lootbags for even the most incompetent players.
its not a mechanic. it is imbalance. do you think its cool fighting someone who disappears every couple of seconds? a ranger only has 3 sec of stealth and we use that more tactically than thieves.
They don’t get protection on every dodge roll, their opponents not seeing where they are is the only damage mitigation beyond dodging. They also have damage and healing tied to stealth.
i dont see thieves like these in pvp at all and i know how to play thief in pvp. stealth in wvw from thieves is completely out of control. you cant make a mistake if you wanna kill them. no single mistake.
Something new to learn then. Afaik one can not cap or hold points while in stealth, which is why you don’t see them there. In Wvw you can try to kill the competition and then cap a point.
im sure a lot of people who arent playing as a thief have the same complaints.
If you’re gonna use a pistol main hand for a power build, wouldn’t it be more useful to just use P/P?
P/P has little sustain, P/D Power hits pretty hard and gets the stealth and defence. You can mix gear to maximise P/D on both power and condition, or stick power and have a wider choice of weapons.
I was working on 2 builds and I was curious what’s more important for a Thief in WvW?
Attack Power > Critical Hit and Critical Damage
or
Critical Hit and Critical Damage > Attack Power
If you’re looking for more damage, power is always the first stat to raise. After having majored in Power, it depends a bit on other factors, but usually Critical Damage first, then Precision. Upcoming changes may alter the that, so don’t go crafting ascended stuff.
So tell me how it’s fair to 100% counter defense someone with a 6s blind every 10s. Can you kill someone in 4s? Maybe as a s/d ele that has burst that has absolutely 0 counter play, but try killing anyone as a melee user in that time frame.
You don’t have to wait it out, one auto-attack should remove it.
Oh I’m sorry, I meant just the food. The 40% increase/decrease just from food is outrageously OP and should have been nerfed long ago.
There’re also things like Giver’s weapons that have preposterously huge amounts of condition damage on them.
They don’t actually, they have no condition damage on them at all. They have condition duration. Condition duration is less effective – for the longer lasting DOT conditions at least – as it seems, as long lasting conditions have a higher chance of being cleansed before doing their work.
But perhaps all condition duration modifiers, increasing as well as decreasing, on gear should be tempered to within a smaller range. Both sides should be options, not mandatory.
edit: furthermore, and I dont understand why more people arent stating this, this crtDamage change isnt effecting my full Zerker characters AT ALL.
We don’t know how it is going to scale but it will effect berseker gear, and will effect it the most. Changing from % to a normalized stat has a huge impact on jewels, which will go from 3% to 15 ferocity. Ascended trinkets, with their ‘jewels’ integrated take a big hit as well.
This change is dirrectly effecting all my slightly tankier / support characters. Isnt this the opposite of what its intended to do?
From what I understood from the livestream the intention of this change is to normalize critical damage as a necessary first step for further changes.
I am not sure if your video is serious or sarcastic? The example you show is rather, well, lets say I think you’re trying to make an issue where there isn’t one.
Shadowstepping needs some fixing to improve it actually, and more importantly, to do what it does more reliable. Numerous times it has has failed to transport me across small bumps in the terrain, or dropped me below the surface. Shadowstep should bring you were you can run. From wiki: “Unlike teleporting, shadowstepping allows the player to move vertically as long the position can be reached normally by moving on the ground without jumping. Trying to shadowstep up or through obstacles or across gaps will cause you to shadowstep to the edge in general”
