Guild Wars 2

I honestly don’t believe that they are going to nerf zerkers but just make it more balanced with other armors/builds/play styles. Some might get slight boosts and some slight reductions. I am certain zerker will still be very viable.

I’m with you OP. I believe they will make a return. They are too cool and adversary not to bring them back.

Mimizu.7340:

jheryn.8390:

Mimizu.7340:

obviously nobody will admit to buying gold from goldsellers and will create a suitable cover story.

saying you got it flipping or from mystic forge or pure luck or dungeon grinding etc.

i take all such stories with a pinch of salt.

Cynical and jaded much? I report every gold seller that solicits. That kind of crap ruins the economy of the game. Some of us actually get more gold by either luck or working hard to make it. Most of my guildmates have money because we constantly do dungeons and flip on the TP. I would think most people who buy gold wouldn’t rear their heads on this thread.

nice cover

Should I have said jealous and lazy instead? Apparently you cannot make gold on your own so you accuse others of buying it. That is OK. Think what you want.

More than likely, you are one of those that actually buys gold and thinks everybody else does the same because you do. Ego I guess.

Mimizu.7340:

obviously nobody will admit to buying gold from goldsellers and will create a suitable cover story.

saying you got it flipping or from mystic forge or pure luck or dungeon grinding etc.

i take all such stories with a pinch of salt.

Cynical and jaded much? I report every gold seller that solicits. That kind of crap ruins the economy of the game. Some of us actually get more gold by either luck or working hard to make it. Most of my guildmates have money because we constantly do dungeons and flip on the TP. I would think most people who buy gold wouldn’t rear their heads on this thread.

I run dungeons and do small amounts of flipping on the TP. The flipping to me is boring and I only do it when I know it is a sure thing. I also sell huge amounts of mats from salvage and farming. I also love doing champ trains and world bosses. I get quite a bit of coin daily doing this stuff.

I have only had two drop that were not personal story line drops. One from a Teq event and the other was on Southsun during the event that introduced Southsun.

I don’t ever remember seeing in any rules for the game or anything else that a precursor was guaranteed to drop EVER.

mahariel.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

mahariel.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

See, I find playing warrior to be boring. To me, it takes practically no skill to play. (That’s not intended as a slur at anyone, I realize there are people that enjoy playing the class, this is just my personal take on it.) I find it way too simple, and very much a spam-auto-attack-to-win type class. I kill too fast and take like no damage…and I’m only a 62. It’s a snoozefest for me.

Warrior is absolutely not spam autoattack to win. You need to maintain a rotation of vulnerability stacking, burst skills and completing axe autoattack chains in between times that these other things are on cooldown to maintain good DPS. If you just spam greatsword auto, your DPS plummets, and if you just spam axe auto you’ll have ~15% less DPS than a properly played warrior, plus you won’t be adding much vulnerability so it’s probably closer to ~20% less DPS.

Note this is for dungeons, in open world I can literally just do a hundred blades and everything melts, but open world is a giant pile of faceroll anyway unless you start soloing champions.

I don’t dungeon on my warrior (generally prefer my ele, or my mes depending on mood and need). Don’t run axe main hand either.

Well of course it’s going to be boring if you don’t make an effort to play it properly.

There is no “properly”. People play the style, skills, and weapon’s they prefer. I don’t believe that anyone gets to set the standard on what are the right anything to play.

I feel great about GW2 right now. There are things I wish were different at times, but I don’t know of any game where that would not be true.

Weighing everything, I think it is pretty darn awesome!

I understand what you are saying, Warrior and Thief fit your play style. I’m one of those that likes playing all different classes. I find fun in each of them. Although I am having a hard time getting into my thief. He is the only class I don’t have an 80 in.

I find that I can adapt most of mine into the style of play I like. I also like classes that require more thinking to play. Ele and Mes are the natural classes that fit my style. That being said, I love my guardian and ranger.

For example: I have created a Guardian that is all about party support and keeping my group alive while holding my own in a fight. I really have to watch when I choose to use my skills and not just spam them.

I know not everyone is like this, but I try hard to fit every class into my play style.

I agree. This is a poor move. It was much better where it was. It is bad enough that lore from GW1 was hugely ignored in GW2, but are they trying to gank it in the forums too? Bad form. Poor choice forum admins.

@ fellyn

I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand, if they don’t announce anything until it is done or a for sure thing, they would get just as many people crying that they never say anything about what is happening with the future of the game.

I think it is a Catch 22 for them.

Phantom.8130:

jheryn.8390:

Actually you did not throw me a bone or anything else. It is impossible to throw physical objects through written electronic communication. Are there any particular dictionaries you would like me to use to link the definitions of “throw” and “bone” for you?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor

I just figured since you could not extrapolate from Hjorje’s post when I assumed he used shareholders as a a metaphor for people who take figurative ownership in the game, you did not understand metaphor even though you could search for a definition. Certainly you couldn’t know that he may have just used a wrong word and were crass enough to point it out.

I was just playing by your rules and taking what you “advertised” about throwing bones literally. Because certainly, throwing bones cannot be interpreted in any other way than actually physically throwing a bone. Playing by your logic. Not mine.

Phantom.8130:

jheryn.8390:

Phantom.8130:

jheryn.8390:

I agree. Some people have the inherent need to be right whether they are or not and also can’t accept when someone does not bow to things as they see them. No room for disagreement with them in their mindset. In this case, he cannot accept that we see what the devs said as intent and not advertising (by any definition).

I’m done arguing with this guy. He is just devolving into insults and minutia because I won’t accept what he says.

I see that he questioned your use of “shareholders” as well. I understood your meaning because I understand metaphor. I am sure you will be seeing a “shareholder” definition link soon.

this has nothing to do with anyone’s opinion of the game, or the company, at all. it has to do with YOUR understanding of the words you’re using. such as metaphor. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor) it wasn’t a metaphor. if english isn’t your native language, it’s understandable. if it is, however, you really should learn what words mean before using them. if you don’t know the definition, don’t use the words. and certainly don’t base an entire argument around them. there’s no shame in that.

LOL Thank you for confirming what I said to Hjorje.

my pleasure. you confirmed everything i was saying, i figured i’d throw you a bone.

Actually you did not throw me a bone or anything else. It is impossible to throw physical objects through written electronic communication. Are there any particular dictionaries you would like me to use to link the definitions of “throw” and “bone” for you?

Phantom.8130:

jheryn.8390:

I agree. Some people have the inherent need to be right whether they are or not and also can’t accept when someone does not bow to things as they see them. No room for disagreement with them in their mindset. In this case, he cannot accept that we see what the devs said as intent and not advertising (by any definition).

I’m done arguing with this guy. He is just devolving into insults and minutia because I won’t accept what he says.

I see that he questioned your use of “shareholders” as well. I understood your meaning because I understand metaphor. I am sure you will be seeing a “shareholder” definition link soon.

this has nothing to do with anyone’s opinion of the game, or the company, at all. it has to do with YOUR understanding of the words you’re using. such as metaphor. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor) it wasn’t a metaphor. if english isn’t your native language, it’s understandable. if it is, however, you really should learn what words mean before using them. if you don’t know the definition, don’t use the words. and certainly don’t base an entire argument around them. there’s no shame in that.

LOL Thank you for confirming what I said to Hjorje.

Hjorje.9453:

@Jheryn,

Time to give up, they have a different mindset to how these things are and nothing you say will change that.

It is like at my job. I get a request to have a database or application developed. I get the request, I research, and then I give a statement of intent to the shareholders of the project, which is my boss’s and the group requesting the project. This statement of intent is going to be my list of steps I will be going through and I timeline that I can try to shoot for. Now some of the steps will get done faster then I thought and some of the steps take a little longer, but the shareholders in the project understand this aspect of development, as long as the deadline is met then the other steps are ok.

Currently, we the players are the shareholders of this game. Since the game will have a life span that none of us can predict, the deadline is when the game dies. So the blog post that ANET uses to inform the players of their intent, should be looked at as such, a statement of intent, with a proposed timeline. But just like any other development project some things go quick some don’t. By looking at them producing a document for their shareholders, us the gamers, it is not advertising what they are doing it is stating what they are trying to do. Now does it bother me that they don’t get things done. Yes. Do I think they need to get better at researching their statement of intent to better reflect this. Yes. But I also understand what they are doing and look at though that perspective. In my eyes it has nothing to do with everyone definition of advertising since I don’t believe they were advertising anything.

I agree. Some people have the inherent need to be right whether they are or not and also can’t accept when someone does not bow to things as they see them. No room for disagreement with them in their mindset. In this case, he cannot accept that we see what the devs said as intent and not advertising (by any definition).

I’m done arguing with this guy. He is just devolving into insults and minutia because I won’t accept what he says.

I see that he questioned your use of “shareholders” as well. I understood your meaning because I understand metaphor. I am sure you will be seeing a “shareholder” definition link soon.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SNIP

I agree with you 100%

Maybe we are getting to detailed. Maybe just a tag that lets people know you are part of your guilds leadership that can recruit members. That way it can be used to both let people know you are guild leadership and can be used as a recruiting tool. Who can have the tag could be another box on the permissions panel.

Phantom.8130:

i’m sorry, but using the dictionary definition of words is in no way shape or form “stretching things”. in fact, quite the opposite. making up the definition of a word to suit your whim is stretching things.

look, all that matters is whether or not they called public attention to something. that’s all. everything else is semantics. your own personal definition of words doesn’t change that. they called public attention to something, they advertised. end of story. no amount of verbal tapdancing will change that. if x, then y. they x’d, so it’s y. i’m sorry you don’t understand that, but that doesn’t change anything. they advertised. they drew attention to their game by something they stated publicly. whether what they stated was true or not doesn’t matter. it ONLY matters whether they stated it. which they did.

Again, I am not making anything up. I live in the real world where everything is not dictionary defined. I don’t have to use a dictionary to make sure I understand a concept or use it to support thin arguments.

As for stretching things, I didn’t mean the dictionary definition of advertising. I made it clear that I meant your use of the word media was stretching things. Real life applies here to and I and understand that social media and traditional media are not the same thing. I also understand that the dictionary definition of the word media was never meant to include twitter and facebook and pintrest. The definition you so love to refer to is older than any internet social media. We have a dictionary from 1973 here at the office that says what the online definition does. Twitter and its ilk did not exist back then. Again, context.

You say “all that matters” is X. No. That is all that matters to you and probably others like you. There are those of us that believe you are wrong. We believe you do not understand the difference between advertising and desire or intent. All that matters is that we do not believe they were advertising what would be happen, but rather expressing their desire for what they would like have happen. It isn’t verbal tap dancing, it is perspective. I understand completely what you are saying. I just don’t agree with it.

Hjorje.9453:

You are looking at what Jheryn has been saying from the wrong direction. Yes using the internet to state something could be a form of advertising. But from and development stand point, ANET was making a statement of intent about what they was working on. Which in my view is not advertising the features, but letting the community know this is what we are working on and hoping to have it in game by the end of the year.

If you look at the blog post that the OP referenced, they actually implemented most of the items they listed, we got official responses to some they would be postponed until 2014. Jheryn has been arguing in this thread that advistising was not the proper word to be used to describe what ANET posted, which it isn’t, but as you stated in your post it could be assumed it was because they was using a type of media to do it. But the word advertising on this thread wasn’t start by Jheryn, he was responding to another poster that was using the word. So I don’t see how anyone was trying to redefine the English language here, just like how I view what they wrote as a statement of intent from a development stand point. But I see things this way since I am a developer also (not games). I see advertising as what stores to do sell products or tell us about sells. The blog post in question was made for the GW2 community to give us an idea of what is coming.

Hjorje, many here are trying to be so strictly literal about the definition of the word “advertising” so that it supports their arguments. They are ignoring all traditional and real life accepted conventions about advertising. I doubt that many (if any) people making these arguments could hold up if their own words and statements were held to such scrutiny.

Phantom.8130:

you said, multiple times, that advertising is, and i quote, “a guarantee or promise” the dictionary defines it as “the act of calling attention to something, especially through the media” not a guarantee or promise, just calling attention to something. the two are nowhere even in the same neighborhood as each other.

now, let’s take it one step further. things like blogs, facebook and twitter are referred to as social media sites. the internet as a whole is a form of the media. meaning, anything an arenanet employee writes on one of those, somewhere they know for a fact that many people will be reading, is indeed calling attention to something through the media. writing things into their own wiki page would also be considered advertising, because they’re posting it there as a representative of their company.

let’s apply this to to the topic. did they promise anything? no. did they call attention to something, especially through the media? yes. did they deliver on what they called attention to? not even remotely. is this a reoccurring pattern with them? yes. are there always people who try to redefine the english language and twist logic to make excuse after excuse for why Anet consistently fails to deliver on what they advertise? yes.

Well, I believe that you are stretching things more than a little. Maybe it isn’t, but I believe that most people can extrapolate that the definition of advertising in the media does not include statements or discussions on social media outlets. If it is an actual commissioned ad to the side with artwork and was paid for with the intent to promote a determined product or service, then yes, that something on a social media site would be advertising as set by the definition.

Just because something uses the same name as something else, does not mean they are the same thing. “Fruits of our labors” most generally doesn’t not refer to produce you would find in a grocery store. I think that I am and that others should be able to tell the difference between traditional media and social media. They are not the same thing just because the have the word ‘media’ as part of their name.

I also think that people should be able to differentiate when they see ads with artwork of Scarlet with a release date for content and when someone is discussing intentions of things they would like to see happen.

As someone who advertises for my company, if I put an ad in the paper saying we will be offering X product for 50% off in February 2014 then that is advertisement. If I say I would really like to offer Y product for 25% this sometime this year on my facebook page, it doesn’t mean that it is going to happen. It just means I want it to happen. It isn’t advertising, it is statement of intent. Nothing more.

I find that taking things too literally and so rigid by definition only leads to frustration for some people causing them to mislead themselves as to intent.

I often wonder what happened to taking things in context, deductive reasoning, and reasonable extrapolation.

Again, I believe that everything that ANet advertised by conventional means was indeed implemented. Everything actually promised as the OP set forth, also was indeed done. Everything else was statement of intent that many I believe are trying to twist into some sort of guarantee. Which it was not.

I like this too if you had the ability to turn it on and off.

It would be good for both leaders and officers.

The only problem I really see is that many guilds have many different kinds of positions with different levels of permissions. How would this be handled?

I like the idea of expanding interaction and instances with the orders.

Each of the orders have strongholds and it would be amazing to see these places expanded with both maps and instances. You could also tie them in with existing events. Maybe a character would have to participate in certain little-participated in portal event to get a “hint of residue” from the portal that would drop if you got a hit in on it You would need to return it to your order for study that would lead to another discovery and another event in the world that they would have to participate in.

I see this as not only a way to advance story line but also the reward at the end of an arc could be new skill points. Also less populated events and areas could be revived.

If these chains could be linked in with existing events, it would mitigate the need for entirely new content although a certain amount of new would need to be mixed in I believe.

I would love to see new skills and story linked to further horizontal progression.

LOL. +1 to you Subdue.

Maybe another question to add to your original would be “Who doesn’t have access to ascended armor if they want it?”

The answer is no one.

Ethics.4519:

The employees represent the company. Look at many of the scandals in the news where an employee is fired for some personal wrong doing they did that went public.

Just because you don’t have an issue with the company not doing the things that they said they are working on to have done in 2013, doesn’t mean you should tell the people that do care that they are wrong.

I have 40+ employees. The do represent me and my company. If they misrepresented either of us or did us harm, I would fire them too.

That being said, I don’t believe any employee misrepresented the ANet or did anything that could construed as a “personal wrong.” Maybe you do, and that is your right. However, this is a game we are talking about, not embezzlement or any other thing that will ever mar the company’s image should it go public.

You are absolutely correct that employees represent the company, but any company is very, very rarely bound by the words an employee. As I have stated before, there are many artistic endeavors involved as well as programming and implementation issues. Only estimates of completion for such things can ever be given. That is why most of the time, we are not guaranteed anything until things are ready to roll out. That the company would allow the devs to even talk about future plans is a treat. I feel sorry for the people who try to share future plans because they are treated with such disrespect when their words are thrown back at them with such vitriol. In my opinion that is shameful.

I don’t have an issue with the things not implemented because those things were never guaranteed. Had it been, I would feel otherwise. I don’t think you are wrong for caring about something you thought you would see implemented. I think you are wrong by thinking that it was owed to any of us by any time frame. We were not promised or guaranteed anything no matter what they said.

Completely on topic. I do believe that all actual promises made by the company happened. That was the question posed by the OP. Any other statements made by devs were just that. Statements. Not promises. Not guarantees. Not sworn oaths. Just hopes and desires for the future of the game. Nothing more.

Phantom.8130:

jheryn.8390:

advertising (which is a guarantee or promise)

advertising. you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means.

and neither does websters dictionary, either. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advertising

I did not use the word ‘advertising’. I was quoting someone who did.

And your dictionary definition proves what I was saying. There were no paid ads or publications announcing the coming of some of the things ANet said they wanted to do 2013 and did not. Advertising is played out in the media. Many dev statements were not. Advertising is a publication of intent or release. In other words, a guarantee of the release of something.

There were plenty of commissioned artworks and ads for things they did do. Scarlet, The Queens Jubilee, The Bazaar of the Four Winds. All had ads for their content. Some of the things that people are complaining about here are merely things the devs SAID they would like to do in 2013.

Here is an expanded definition of ‘advertising’:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/advertising

When a grocery store releases an ad that says they will have bananas on sale for X dollars per pound on certain dates, they must honor that. When a store employee says, “I would like to see bananas go for X dollars per pound on certain dates.” The store is not bound by the employees musings. Same rule applies here.

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

Absolutely it is OK to like the game and find fault in the actions of the company. I just believe that people are finding fault where there is none. You still seem to be ignoring the fact that they clearly stated that not everything may make it to game when they thought it would.

As a person who has 40+ employees who report to me, if one of them came to me and told me (which often happens) that something is not going to be done when we thought it would, I find out why. If there is a legitimate reason, we work it out. I am not mad at the employee. Sometimes things happen. I get that as a manager. I don’t automatically start blaming the employee and burn into him/her for the delay. There is no reason for that other than neglect. Also, if an employee gives me an estimate of when a project may be done, I do not construe that estimate as a set date or a promise. It is simply a goal. If it is done by then or sooner, awesome. If not, I was warned and we work to get it done as soon as possible. See any similarities?

Since we will never know why things Anet wanted to do in 2013 did not happen. There is no reason to believe that they are not working on those things. Because they did not happen when some people thought they should is perfectly OK. There is no fault here because no promises were made.

Ethics.4519:

Vol.7601:

Do I have to keep posting the disclaimer or are you guys going to conveniently ignore it?

•“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.” *

That doesn’t really make it okay.

Why can’t THIS be the issue we have? It’s the face that they say all these things are coming, but then say they might, and they don’t. What’s the point of discussing them, when more often then not, it doesn’t happen.

Although my post was removed, I made some valid points about the overall feel the company gives off through posts, actions, and comments made which just makes the playerbase/customer feel let down. This whole “Here are a bunch of things we’re going to do in 2013” that don’t happen feels like just another item on the list. Not to mention the players repeatedly defending them with “Well, they didn’t give an actual deadline, and they said it was subject to change” is just sad.

I actually think it makes it perfectly OK. As a take on what TheDaiBish.9735 said, if they don’t share what they have planned people complain that they are not letting their customers know what is coming. If they do share what they have planned and it doesn’t happen as individuals interpret it, then they are lying and not keeping promises.

You propose that they just say nothing instead of “not keeping promises”. Yet others would complain because they say nothing? I think it may not be sinking in that they are in a huge Catch 22 situation. D’mnd if they do, D’mnd if they don’t.

So they try to be forthcoming and yet also quantify it with the statement, “As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

You seriously cannot please everyone. What bothers me is that there seems to be too much of taking statements too literally and in an overly rigid manner. I don’t understand the unnecessary vitriol.

So again, yes, I think it is perfectly fine that they make such a statement. They are trying (successfully IMO) to mitigate people claiming they did not “keep their word” when they actually did. They said it might not happen. They kept their word.

I see it as people wanting to hold them to one thing they say (as in what they said they wanted to do in 2013) and yet disregarding other things they also say (it may not happen). That is unfair to the people making the statements and hypocritical of those calling them out IMO.

Ethics.4519:

jheryn.8390:

Ethics.4519:

You guys are getting caught up on the word “promise”. It boils down to the developers, imo, making a string of statements that they don’t live up to.

^Semantics.

Indeed

First of all, they were not “advertising” anything. They were talking about what they wanted to do this year. They didn’t guaranty anything. That is your mistake for construing it as such.

You do realize that “advertising” is NOT a semantic version of “discussing what you want to happen” right? Advertising is a guaranty. Discussing plans or intentions is not.

Ethics.4519:

You guys are getting caught up on the word “promise”. It boils down to the developers, imo, making a string of statements that they don’t live up to.

^Semantics.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note it doesn’t have to be from the original list that the poster (you) generated. It could be from anyone’s.

Chris

Thanks Chris. I knew that. It was hard for me to come up with my top three. The three I originally listed were the most important to me out of anything I read or came up with on my own. So, I had the sucky task of deciding which was most important to supply the “just one” you asked for.

BTW, it was very hard just as you said.

Ethics.4519:

If a company advertises that a product will do something, and it does not, they are liable to the claim. Just because they didn’t say “I pinky promise this will cure your flu” doesn’t meant they aren’t held accountable for what they advertise.

First of all, they were not “advertising” anything. They were talking about what they wanted to do this year. They didn’t guaranty anything. That is your mistake for construing it as such.

Secondly, this is an artistic endeavor. They are creating content. Development and implementation of artistic creations are held to different standards and guidelines.

It’s not my day job, but I am a musician and arrange and write music for choirs and orchestras. When someone commissions me to write something original, I give them an approximate time it will be done. It isn’t always done by the time they wish they could have it. Some things take longer than you think they will.

Same thing applies here. They are creating original content. Sometimes it will take longer than they think it will. And they are dealing with many mediums here not just one like I do.

They are dealing with, artwork, music, dialog/acting, written content, and computer programming. Getting all of these things coordinated and implemented timely will never be easy or exact for them.

EDIT: Vol and Morrigan: +1 to you both.

If I had to pick one of my three I posted before, it would be:

New Permanent Zones.

New zones would give us more JP’s, events, new creatures, and terrain to explore. Many people would like to see old GW1 areas opened up and I would agree with that 100%.

I believe they did, because I could not find anywhere where they actually said “I promise this…” or “I promise that…”

I do see places where they said they were going to do this or that in 2013 and then honestly say they wouldn’t be able to get to it as fast as they thought.

Honestly. Taking things so strictly is just not realistic or reasonable. I don’t know a single person alive that can say they have done everything they said they would do when they would do it. Glass houses people.

Give the devs and the company a break.

Happy New Year Chris and everyone on the thread.

Sorry I am late to this party, but I have been away for the last couple of weeks. I thought I would put in my top three after reading through the thread.

1. Expanded Skills, Weapons, and Traits: Not to beat a dead horse, but one of the things I loved most about GW1 was the ability to customize your skill bar completely and with many, many combinations. I really feel limited with the amount of skills available.

2. More Individual Content/Personal Story Line: I want more to do in PvE and want to feel like my character is still out there doing something. After finishing my personal story line, it feels like my characters are retired and just are out exploring and having fun with no real purpose.

3. More Permanent (Old) Zones: One of the great joys of any game is my ability to explore and experience new places within the game. What I would really like as an old GW1 player is to get to go to some of the places we used to go. Maguuma, Crystal Desert, much of the EOTN places, Ring of Fire, etc. I miss those places from GW1 and would love to see some of them open up for my new characters to explore.

For my initial two cents on horizontal progression, I agree with those who would like more obtainable skills and traits. Also as mentioned by devs, access to other weapons that a class does not already have in their kitten nal. EDIT: (Really? A…..R……S……E……N…..A…..L is kittenized?)

Another suggestion I have is new zones. Maybe we can unlock new zones to progress forward. When you finish your personal story, you now have a new zone unlocked that cannot be accessed by anyone until they finish their personal story. It would not actually be a progression of the personal story line, but would be incentive to finish it. It would also be a goal for many people. Maybe finishing that new zone could open up another and so on.

While we are on personal story lines, I would like to see them continue. I would like to see that our characters have purpose beyond the end of the Zaihtan story. I’m sure that you all have such things in the works, but after finishing my personal story on a couple of toons, there is no story left. In GW1 having repeatable missions allowed us to feel like we were still involved in the story. Having daily missions for reward also helped with this.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

Just a question really. I know that mine was a later post, but does your above statement include drops that would help increase crafting rates of ascended items? Like drops of mithrilium, spiritwood planks, and other such higher ascended mat drops?

This is a great thread Chris. Sorry I am so late to the party. (Story of my life.)

So if this has already been suggested, forgive me for the duplication.

I agree that more ways need to acquire ascended items needs to happen. Even saying that, it is obvious that crafting of ascended items is not going away. Which is good.

My suggestion would be to have drops to help crafting progress faster as well. Maybe a spiritwood plank or an empyreal star drop. It is good to just get a piece of ascended equipment, but maybe a more frequent drop than the actual equipment would be mats to help in crafting of the equipment. Just a thought.

TooBz.3065:

I don’t think it’s strange at all. There has been NOTHING to come out this year that’s worth your time. Without a good distraction there’s nothing to do but stew. It may not be healthy, but I’ve seen many people not get over an ex until they found someone new.

LOL. True about the exes and the not being healthy. However, most people just wallow in their grief or anger. They usually blame the ex for their predicament, they don’t deliberately take it out on the people around them.

And it still doesn’t change the fact that there a lot of people who really enjoy the game. I’m one of them. If someone doesn’t like it that is perfectly OK, just don’t try to ruin it for the rest of us.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Because I spent hundreds of dollars here and I have a right to voice my thoughts. That’s why I still post. And I actually LIKED the game the first few months after release.

I don’t see where Hjorje or anyone else is questioning your right to voice your opinion. I think he, as do I, find it strange that you cannot move on if you dislike the game so much. Even if you did spend that much on the game, no one forced you to spend the money beyond the game price.

It just feels like you are here to provoke other posters who disagree with you. I might appreciate what you have to say, but you are so unnecessarily confrontational.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What? You do realize that the sub fee is trivial so I don’t see why it would keep people from playing. And I don’t feel pressured to play to get my “money’s worth”. I mean, I have a Netflix subscription that I pay $8 a month for. Do I need to watch Netflix 24/7 to get my money’s worth? Of course not because part of that fee is having access whenever I want, to a bevy of content. Same with sub MMOs.

GW2 could never justify a sub fee because the permanent content just isn’t there.

Trivial is a matter of perspective. Maybe to you the sub fee is trivial, not to everyone. I have a guildmate that lives on a shoestring budget. He only has high speed internet and a computer that can handle GW2 because his work provides him with those things in order to occasionally work at home. You do realize that your view of what is trivial is a matter of opinion and a bit elitist right?

Not only that, there is a principle aspect to some people paying subs. It isn’t as if they cannot afford it, but feel that paying for game software and then having to pay monthly to play it offends some people.

Even if the software was free, some people just don’t want an additional bill to keep track of each month.

There are many reasons for not wanting to pay an additional fees.

Although I certainly can afford it, I don’t have a netflix account and I don’t want one. There is plenty of television/online entertainment that is free and keeps me very entertained without having to shell anything out additional each month. Kind of like GW2.

Zeldain.5710:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

people will still play guild wars 2 due to no monthly subscription.

There is no value in free… otherwise everyone would be playing it, right? Or LoTRO, or SW:TOR, or… you get the idea. Free means nothing.

Players are willing to pay for a service they find value in… WoW continues to prove it to this day, and ESO and WildStar are creating packages for that value as well. Some people prefer the subscription because it lets the designers focus on game design instead of monetization.

If the only thing a game has going for it is “it’s free” then it’s already on the way to the grave.

Not saying that’s GW2, but, they really do have to announce something pretty major – an expansion, for example – to be seen as relevant in light of new competition.

Well, I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Zeldain. Most of my guild wanted to play ESO, but will not because of the subscription. I suspect many people play GW2 because of the F2P. I know I do.

Not saying that some will not migrate to other F2P games, but many, including myself, have a problem with subscriptions. For now, those people I play with love GW2 and plan on sticking with it no matter what.

xarallei.4279:

Yeah, it will probably be a plate class. Which is kind of disappointing to me because I want to see an updated version of the Ritualist or Dervish, but neither of those are plate classes.

I’m with you on the Ritualist. It was my main in GW1 and I miss it. Despite claims, engineers are NOT a replacement for it.

That being said, I don’t think it will be coming back. At least not first. The devs, as mentioned before, said the next class would probably be a heavy class.

I can see them making the Dervish into a plate class. They sort of did it with the monk. Why not the dervish?

I can see it being a scythe/sickle/scimitar type class. They could use curved weapons and maybe some other weapons we don’t see yet. Of course, the devs also said, that we would see current classes getting to use other current weapons before we see new classes and new weapons.

Vayne.8563:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It is easy to be best MMO of the year when you are the ONLY MMO of the year. This year will be much more telling of the games health.

Though we should be able to get a good idea of the games health when they release the fractal leader boards. Since they aren’t retroactive we can just count the number of players on the leaderboard and that will give us a decent idea of how many people are playing.

I think you’ll find a good portion of the people playing don’t do the fractals at all, period end of story. I have a guild are 150 people, and I think less than 50 of them have ever set foot in a fractal.

This is true. Although my guild is filled with people who love fractals, there are many more players that don’t. There are also many people who play WvW and sPvP who don’t play any type of PvE. So the fractal leader boards are hardly an indication of the population of GW2.

Mesket.5728:

Well, I’m sure ANet will be more than happy to subsist with just your semi-casual gem purchases.

Others think that a company of ANet size, able to develop the GW2 we knew before release, can do way much better. The game just feels like an orange juice machine with no more oranges. Squeezing and squeezing those last drops.

Until real improvement is seen, people who loved the game at release but are unhappy with the current direction (and not a single particular change but the whole direction for the last year) will keep complaining at the forums.

What’s the reason for the snarky comment about the gems? If you don’t like what’s happening in the game, don’t take it out on the people who do. Comments like that certainly don’t lend you any credibility or serious consideration with ANet people who read these comments. Moderators and Devs on these forums have frequently mentioned that they do not bother to read or take seriously people who are mean to them or other posters. You can say what you want to say without being rude to someone who has not been rude to you.

Spawne.3128:

I don’t think anyone ever really said GW2 is a terrible game, the point that alot of people keep making is that there is alot of squandered potential here with this game. The game has the ability to accommodate many different play styles and have much much more depth to the world then what is currently available. Alot of the original team that designed the game isnt around anymore from my understanding, and as i have said in the past, the new team doesnt show the creativity that the original game developers showed.

I agree with you in everything you said except the part about “anyone ever really said GW2 is a terrible game”. There are plenty of threads out there that vehemently state that this game is terrible and has betrayed the GW1 fanbase, etc., etc., etc.

I do, however, love the game and agree with the OP. I think any game has room to improve and grow. I’m not sure if the new team is any less creative than the old, but I feel they have abandoned much of the lore that made GW1 so attractive.

I’m not bashing because I love playing the game and am very happy with it. I just wish I could see some more of the old GW1 in GW2.

Aeonblade.8709:

So defensive. What are you trying to prove? You linked threads that had no bearing on whether or not Scarlet is a bad character or not. It’s just links about trolling on video game forums for companies that have notoriously bad customer support, so their views on dealing with customers are wrong anyway.

Do you really want to use a SoE article to reinforce a point when they never listened to their players at any point?

I’m trying to save you from embarrassment but you are making it really hard through ignorance.

I’m not defensive, I’m just tired of people making claims they have no basis for making. I’m also tired of people on these forums thinking that all the negativity is representative of everyone that plays the games.

As far as the articles go, they were points of generality. People posting in forums are in most part negative. That was all. I really don’t care if devs from other games listened to people or not.

As far as your “altruistic” intentions concerning my welfare: ROTFL. You think people would ever believe that to be true when you ended your post with a blatantly obvious passive-aggressive statement? The ignorance is not mine.

Draco.2806:

jheryn.8390:

I said that no one can claim to know anything without a polling of the entire player base.

Oh, okay. Your posts gave the impression otherwise. I can agree with that.

That was never my intent if that is the way I came across. My point is that so many of these post claim “The majority of players hate Scarlet”. They can’t make that claim. They don’t have the evidence for that. It may in fact be true, but they can’t seriously make such claims.

Draco.2806:

But what’s the argument then? That ANet shouldn’t do anything because we don’t know anyway? That wouldn’t be right, because the response they do have is universally negative.

To answer this question and the one about the relevance of the links at once. Forums are filled with those who complain not those who are content or happy. Those links point that fact out. And the argument is that the majority of responses on the forums don’t like Scarlet which is no surprise since the majority of responses on most threads are ones of complaining and negativity. They whole game can’t be awful or no one would be playing at all. It is very challenging to find threads where people are not complaining about something.

So why should ANet do anything at all? If you took the entire population of posters on the forums and compared that to the entire population of the game base, we are but a small, minute fraction. Again, people are much more vocal when they have something they don’t like as compared to those who are mostly quiet when they are satisfied. Taking that into consideration, why should ANet throw away months of development because forum posters, which represent a small fraction of the player base, don’t like Scarlet. That is cost ineffective.

Draco.2806:

jheryn.8390:

Again you are generalizing for the community which is a true Argument from Ignorance..

At least you could have picked a fallacy with “generalization” in its name. Just read the article, there are lots of things universally recognizes as fallacies…

And that’s not it. Saying the reception of it has been negative because we can easily see the reception of its has been negative isn’t much of a fallacy. It’s an ordinary observation. You’re on the defensive here if you want to claim it’s not representative of the larger playerbase.

People hate Scarlet. People post about hating Scarlet. That’s how it goes.

That is just it, I did read the article, and it clearly states that arguments from ignorance are made when they have no clear basis. Claiming that the majority of players hate Scarlet because of what is said on the forums is not basis. It is only a very small portion of the GW2 community. In order to believe that “people hate scarlet” as a majority basis, you have to have majority consensus.

Again, forums of all types are representatives of dissatisfaction not contentment. Those who are content generally do not post their happiness. As I said to you before, and I’ll repeat, maybe the majority do hate Scarlet. Maybe they do not. Posts here on the forum are not basis for either assumption. Please stop saying that I am claiming that hating Scarlet is not representative of the player base. I don’t know if it is or not. You are the one making claims about the player base, not me.

Aeonblade.8709:

SNIP
“I don’t like what you say so you must be trolling.”

proceeds to link to threads that having nothing to do with a topic of gw2

/facepalm

My links deal with the fact that forums in general and including this one, are filled with negativity and complaints, not compliments and positive feedback. So those links very much apply to these forums and most of those posting in them.

For this one in specific, many comments are stating that Scarlet is hated because that is what people are posting here and are complaining about in chat in game. Yet they completely ignore or berate posts that claim to like Scarlet or are blind to chat in game that like her. I see both.

Where did I say I didn’t like what he said or accuse him of trolling? I said nothing of the kind. Just because I don’t agree with what he wrote doesn’t mean I don’t think he has the right to say it or you for that matter. But I also have the right to disagree with him and what he thinks.

So to comment on what you said about me:

“I’ll misinterpret what you say so I can look clever.”

Writes sentence about conceived wrong

/rolls eyes.

Draco.2806:

jheryn.8390:

Only you don’t seem to grasp that your chats are not the only ones that happen in game or that forums are 90% filled with those that complain and only represent a small number of the total amount of players in a game.

That’s a very old Argument from Ignorance.

Just because we don’t know what most players think doesn’t mean they support your side of the argument. It just means we don’t know.

We only know what we hear people say, and the message is loud and clear: Scarlet needs to go.

Where did I say that players support my side of the argument. I said that no one can claim to know anything without a polling of the entire player base. So anyone, which I am not one who did, cannot claim that they know what “most people feel.” And since I am included in the proverbial “we”, we don’t all hear the same thing. I know plenty who like the current LS with Scarlet. Again you are generalizing for the community which is a true Argument from Ignorance..

You only hear what you want to hear. As far as what I said being an Argument from Ignorance., you obviously only read what you wanted to read because I said nothing of what you accused me of. That is a true Argument from Ignorance.. Did you actually read the article attached to your link? I don’t think you did.

Thank you for your link that I also got to use for you. Here are some more for you:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jul/24/internet-anonymity-trolling-tim-adams
http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/off-topic/314392-negativity-internet-forums-gamers-whiny.html
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/forums-are-virtually-always-for-negativity.76808/

Jamais vu.5284:

jheryn.8390:

And unless you can prove otherwise, you can’t say that Jornophelanthas is not in the majority either.

Should we continue this or do you realize how meaningless your addition was?

No, we most certainly don’t need to continue this. I stated what I did because your comment is completely overstated everywhere, and it held the same bias as the person you were admonishing. I will never understand how a person can chastise another person while he/she is doing the exact same thing. So what I was trying to convey was hypocrisy on your part.

Jamais vu.5284:

This is just inane. I personally don’t have time to “create fanwork and fanart”, or any of those other things that you claim true fans of content do. I spend my time in game enjoying content, not being fanatical about it. I can also say that those in my guild are the same. We enjoy the LS but are not doing any of those things that you claim devout fans do. I think that is only reserved for over the top fans and fanatics, not people who simply enjoy what the LS brings.

You have to be purposefully dense that you took my statement as meaning that every single fan of the character/content would create fanworks. But out of a playerbase of 3.5 million, I expect at least some dedication to the LS in the manner of WoW or even GW1, if it were truly liked that is.
Please tell me you just made that argument for the sake of argument and not because you sincerely believe I implied that.

No I did not think that you were implying that everyone does it. I was implying that you think that most people are going to bother doing those things as it applies to purely temporary content. I believe that most people are not going to go crazy for something they know is going to be history in a very short time. Just because people like something does not mean they are going to dedicate fan created fiction and art for it.

Jamais vu.5284:

Others will indeed like the content. What content do you propose that everyone, not just you, will like?

So you agree that we needed a shakeup after more than one year of only one side being catered too? Good.

Where did you get that from what I wrote? I did not agree that any side was catered too. I just said some would not like every bit of content put out there. And you accused me of being dense? They are not “catering” to anyone. They are not creating content that caters to people who like Scarlet. They are releasing content that they worked months to create. Way before people like you who do not like Scarlet had the chance to complain about. And they are completing the story line that they started. If they didn’t they would have as many complaints about not finishing it as they do about Scarlet still being around. Is there something you don’t understand about that?

Jamais vu.5284:

And you have no basis to make a statement like “The general sentiment is clearly negative.” Unless you can poll all players, the burden of proof for saying something like that is on you.

Forums, comment sections and ingame chats don’t count even a tiny bit. Got it. You sound like every delusional game dev and apologist ever shortly before their downfall.

Of course they count. Only you don’t seem to grasp that your chats are not the only ones that happen in game or that forums are 90% filled with those that complain and only represent a small number of the total amount of players in a game. There are plenty of articles and studies about any forum being filled with those who are dissatisfied and negative over those who are happy. Google it.

Also, I see so many people on these forums who accuse other people of being “apologists” or “delusional” or “fan boys” or “Anet behind kissers” because they don’t agree with the complainers and feet stampers. Those kind of comments make me laugh. Almost as much as the doomsayers that claim inevitable downfall.

People that make such accusations simply cannot handle that their opinion is not fact. It comes from a place of arrogance that those people find it inconceivable when others may believe differently than they do. No one is an apologist or delusional dev because they enjoy what Anet is doing with the LS or because they don’t agree with you.