Thanks Aaron. I figured with the undead plague that spread into the desert from the desolation, that Palawa probably figured it was his like Elona. Ownership is 90% of the law. LOL
I can see the Crystal Desert being our bridge back to Elona. I think it would be cool if this time we started in the desolation and ended in Istan.
I appreciate the clarification.
While we are on the subject of boundaries, is the Crystal Desert part of Tyria or Elona or is there no official boundary there as well?
I like that constant stream of enchantment stripping you suggested. It would also harken back to flash enchantments. I loved that about the GW1 dervish
I honestly do think we will probably get a modified Dervish class once we get to Elona. Which I truly believe we will someday. I think the Dervish is the class that most likely would come with the expanded content.
I also believe there will probably be a retooled version of the Ritualist once we get back to Canthat. My friends and I have done what we have done here and figured out how a possible Rit could work even using spirits that would make it different than the necro, the mesmer, and the Engineer. I think if the two of us and my friends can come up with viable new classes, then surely devs at ANet can easily come up with revised classes that would be different than other current classes, but still pay homage to their original counterparts.
As far as assassins and paragons go, I am certain ANet could come up with retooled versions as well, but most of those two classes have been heavily split up between current classes. I don’t know if either of their GW2 versions would resemble their former classes.
@draxynnic. Those are excellent ideas. I think they all sound like they would go well toward making the Dervish a different and viable for a new class.
I also agree that Avatars were not the core of being a dervish, but they could be for them as a class in GW2. It would distinguish them. The two play styles you listed above were indeed a Dervish’s bread and butter. I see a couple of problems with both as their main in GW2.
If ‘buff and bash’ were to be their staple I am afraid that they would just come across as a variation on a theme with Warriors and Guardians. Both of these classes already do this to a degree. Warriors and Guardians both utilize shouts which are a variation IMO of enchantments. Warriors use battle standards and guardians are boon central. Both are also variations on enchantments to me. So I don’t know that they would achieve the unique status that you would like to see in a new class if they were centered around this play style.
The second one could be interesting. Enchantment sacrifice could have some possibilities. But then again, it might be a bit like creating and destroying clones which is the mesmer staple. But I am sure this play style has a ton of possibilities I can’t think of right now.
For me personally, I would like to see the transition to avatars as the main staple. It would make them vastly different than any other class.
And from a gaming standpoint, why have a huge zone that has nothing more than vistas, jumping puzzles, POI’s, and waypoints? What is the use in that? It is a dead zone in that case good for nothing more than map completion and jumping puzzle achievements.
You mean just like 80% of the other maps?
I get the sarcasm, but that is hardly the case. There are events in all maps, renown hearts in most maps, and services in many maps. LA has none of this.
So to answer your question, no, I most certainly did not mean like 80% of other maps. Because, that is nowhere near the truth.
Dont tell me that the yare bringing LA for permanent ??And when i remember when Anet said how they want to make story here that develops like story in Game of Thrones lol…In game of thrones what is destroyed it STAYS destroyed.I hope though that this little reminder is just to introduce chines with season 1 LS and that after its over everything is same as it was before (meaning – LA is dead)
Why wouldn’t the people of Tyria want to rebuild. Why would they want to just let it sit there in ruin? That would be foolish as it is probably the best placed shipping city/location on the map?
Add to that, many citizens of LA escaped. Many of those, I suspect, may want to go back and rebuild the city they were from.
I’m all for rebuilding. And from a gaming standpoint, why have a huge zone that has nothing more than vistas, jumping puzzles, POI’s, and waypoints? What is the use in that? It is a dead zone in that case good for nothing more than map completion and jumping puzzle achievements.
Monks… …well, monks have changed so much that the don’t exist any longer.
Actually, they still very much exist in lore. Anet just didn’t want them as a playable profession, since they were moving away from the trinity. That’s why some of their spells got subsumed into guardians and such.
Well there are two things with this. First, I was just trying to be humorous. Second, I incorrectly assumed that since we were talking about playable classes that people would understand that I was talking about monks as a playable class. My mistake.
So, to expand that ‘yes and no’. Yes, because you’ve come up with an example of a new mechanic that could be part of a new class. Simply shifting between avatars, in and of itself, would lead to something very similar to the elementalist – give the elementalist a scythe and you’d probably actually be there, but the idea of having them change the utility bar could lead to interesting places (and, incidentally, probably be closer to what GW1 dervish avatars actually did – they didn’t change your weapon attacks, but certainly changed the way you interacted with your bar). No because, while certainly a step in the same direction, that in itself is simply an interesting gimmick rather than a full profession. (But it’s a start!)
Incidentally, to look at the lore aspect of it:
What if, instead of using human names, we used the norn appellations? Somewhat similar to guardian virtues, instead of referring to avatars of Kormir, Balthazar, Grenth, and so on, you assume the mantle of Knowledge, War, Death, etc. From a human’s perspective, these powers are “obviously” sourced from the gods, but a charr could still, for example, assume the mantle of Death without any misgivings – just because that half-human godling has pretensions of grandeur doesn’t mean he has any monopoly on becoming an incarnation of Death.
I like your lore aspect. As you said, it would be easy to come up with lore end. There are really a lot of possibilities. But I really do like the ones you suggested. Those are aspects of existence that apply to all races.
I get what you are saying about it sort of entering the elementalist area, but there is much overlap in classes in similarity. Any class that can be an affective melee aspect has overlap in my opinion. They all amount to variations of hack and slash with maybe the exception of the Ele.
Where I think playstyle would be different by manipulating he utility bar instead of the weapon bar is that you have to buy utility skills with skill points. It may make it much more challenging to fill out the utility skills. You don’t have to buy weapon skills. I think this would lend itself to Dervs questing to make themselves more rounded out as warriors.
To that end, they could also make them a third heavy class and have them abandon their “medium” class status they had in GW1.
If Monks can go from a light class to a heavy one (Guardian), then I think a melee class like Dervishes going to a heavy class status would not be that much of a stretch.
Also a deviation from the Ele would be to not have more than two avatars available at a time. This could be done through weapon swapping to fit the GW2 model. This would give them weapon swapping which eles do not have and would restrict them to two avatars instead of the four elements available to eles.
The other playstyle difference from other classes could be through the TYPES of skills they have. Each class has something unique about them through the “F key” skills. They could be made unique here too. I can’t believe that ANet is simply out of ideas on how to make a new class different from the rest.
One last thing I thought of that would not only make them different than other classes, but also harken back to GW1 mechanics is how the class has to play depending on the avatar chosen.
Maybe one avatar forces them to act like a heavy class tank, while another forces them to act as a light class style of play. How to accomplish that? I have no clue, but I am sure devs would have no problem implementing that.
I mained a Rit. My dervish was a secondary class for me although I did enjoy playing him when I did.
I think it would be very simple for ANet to develop new classes. I think there are a myriad of ideas out there for differences that no one has come up with. I just think it would require a bit of thought and planning.
I think ANet could bring back any old class and change them up to make them different yet fit into the GW2 style.
I know that Kuunavang is not an elder dragon. Didn’t say that he was. That is why I said that I knew that she is not a dragon like Zaitahan.
Also, I knew Kuunavang is a she, I don’t know why I wrote ‘he’ and ‘him’. Stupid mistake.
I also know that all the dragons of Cantha are not elder dragons, I think that is obvious. Just like I think it is obvious that Glint was not an elder dragon. Because I felt that it was obvious, I didn’t think I need to state it.
I also have seen those comments that state that Kuunavang may have been a dragon champion, but as you said, the comments were not very solid so I didn’t mention it.
What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.
We don’t know if Cantha is aware of Elder Dragons now or not. I am certain they know that something big is up now that waterways have been cut off between Tyria and Cantha. Perhaps they even were made aware of Zaihtan’s rise before communication was severed. I don’t know. No one does. But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.
You said “Though admittedly, I am no expert on dragon lore, it is obvious that Cantha was aware of them.” and this is what I was countering – it is not obvious that they’re aware of Elder Dragons, certainly not because of Kuunavang.
But now you say we don’t know if Cantha is aware.
If you read my post in its entirity, you would have seen me state – and I quote myself – “What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.”
And then I did, in fact, say that we don’t know if Cantha was aware of elder dragons.
I then further explained my ’Canthan’s being aware’ statement by saying, and I quote myself again, “But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.”
Nowhere did I say that it was obvious that Cantha was aware of Elder Dragons. Not in my first or second post. I am sorry if you misread it to mean that, but I did explain myself and did not contradict myself.
I know that Kuunavang is not an elder dragon. Didn’t say that he was. That is why I said that I knew that she is not a dragon like Zaitahan.
Also, I knew Kuunavang is a she, I don’t know why I wrote ‘he’ and ‘him’. Stupid mistake.
I also know that all the dragons of Cantha are not elder dragons, I think that is obvious. Just like I think it is obvious that Glint was not an elder dragon. Because I felt that it was obvious, I didn’t think I need to state it.
I also have seen those comments that state that Kuunavang may have been a dragon champion, but as you said, the comments were not very solid so I didn’t mention it.
What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.
We don’t know if Cantha is aware of Elder Dragons now or not. I am certain they know that something big is up now that waterways have been cut off between Tyria and Cantha. Perhaps they even were made aware of Zaihtan’s rise before communication was severed. I don’t know. No one does. But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.
There is a fairly popular idea that there might be a Celestial Elder Dragon somewhere about Cantha, but I’ll let the proponents of that theory do it justice if they choose.
I would like a darkness dragon, but I’m not sure how much of a niche there is for it. All of the other dragons each have their own ‘dark’ aspect blended in with their given elements, so a dark dragon would be somewhat redundant. And besides, any such minions would need something to distinguish them from nightmares, which could be difficult.
Personally, while we’re just throwing out possibilities, I would most want a storm/lightning dragon. Kralkatorrik touches on such things, but mostly as an afterthought, and what aspect of nature lends itself better to an awe inspiring force of destruction than lightning?
I don’t know why there couldn’t be other dragons. The portion of the world we know (Tyria, Elona, and Cantha) hardly encompasses the entire planet. Though admittedly, I am no expert on dragon lore, it is obvious that Cantha was aware of them. Kuunavang is a dragon of sorts. At least that is what the wiki classifies him as. I know he isn’t like Zaihtan or the other bigs, but neither was Glint. So why couldn’t there be other dragons in other places?
Simplest response is to say that the avatar skills were human racials all along, it’s just that in GW1 only the dervishes had learned how to properly unlock them. The rest of the dervish abilities really have nothing to tie them to the gods except skill names, and monks and rangers in particular were filled with references to the gods and that didn’t stop them from being used by other races even back then. Just because humans might name a particular spell or technique after a god doesn’t mean the skill actually has anything directly to do with the god.
I’ve said it a few times in various places, but I think the most important thing in any presentation of a profession idea is coming up with a solid identification of what the playstyle of a profession is (and thus, why it would play differently to others). I can see why people jump straight to skill descriptions, but consider that when the professions were being originally announced only a handful of skills were revealed – what got people excited was not the nitty gritty of skill lists, but the high-level explanation of how the profession behaved.
Sure, it might be possible to divine this from skill lists, but it’d be a lot easier to understand and more compelling if you left that aside apart from a few examples and talked about how you expected the profession to be played. And if you don’t already have some idea of that before you start planning out skills, you’re kinda putting the cart before the horse.
i think that if the dervish were to return as a playable class that it wouldnt happen until elona returned as well.
one way i could see how it would be played by all classes is that after all of this time the dervishes could have turned away from the gods altogether because they have abandoned them. then maybe they could draw their powers from the mists or darker forces of nature. their powers could still be avatar based either way.
if it were the mists, then their new avatars could be almost anything powerful from there. if from darker forces of nature then they could become avatars of more powerful elemental beings like dragons or the like.
of course this is all just guessing but this would allow other races to partake in the class.
I don’t see how this addresses my point, since in the quoted text I didn’t say anything about avatars, the gods, or other races. Frankly, anything even vaguely similar to avatars are going to be elites, and with the way GW2 elites work, this makes them an ‘occasional thing’ rather than something that’s actually an important part of the profession.
My point is that what I tend to look for in profession suggestions is a clear explanation of how the profession plays that establishes that it has a different playstyle to the existing ones. Most profession suggestions, including this one, don’t have that.
I see what you are saying Drax. I but I do think he was trying address what you were saying in part. At least I think he was.
He said that their powers could now be derived from other places like the mists. Maybe their class could be generally avatar based. As elementalists change between elements, maybe Dervishes would change between avatars that have differing skills. Why do they have to be elites? Now maybe all of their powers are derived from whatever avatar form they choose to represent.
Maybe the avatar has nothing to do with a single skill as it did in GW1. No elites skill like “Avatar of Dwayna”. Perhaps their choice of weapon determines the Avatar they represent as do their utility skills. Maybe all skills are locked into the avatar weapon they choose. Maybe in this they are the opposite of Engineers. When they choose their weapon it changes their utility skills sort of like when an Engineer chooses a kit it changes their weapons skills.
I think there are many possibilities to consider. Both the above give examples of how the play style could be different than other classes we now have.
Is this sort of what you were looking for?
-snip-
While you have lots of information here, non of it is really a problem. The mesmer is hardly like its GW1 counterpart. No reason the same can’t be true of the ritualist.
In fact Mesmer is so far from what it was from GW1 that it could have been named Illusionist or whatever, so what people really want is some class named Ritualist lol
This. Let’s be honest, mesmers are not the only returning classes that are far different than they used to be. Necros used to have hordes of minions they could command and deathshroud as it is today was not even a twinkle in necromancer’s eyes back in GW1.
Elementalists powers did not switch between elements like they do today. And are actually one of the best healer classes in GW2 if you choose to play them that way.
Monks… …well, monks have changed so much that the don’t exist any longer.
The mesmer example is the best example. They are nothing like the GW1 mesmers. So Rits could be a whole new concept class as well.
Rit spirits might be totally different spirits than spirits of the dead like necros, or spirits of nature like Rangers. Their ashes of deceased ancestors could act in similar fashion as they did in gw1 granting hold and drop bonuses and disabling weapon skills while held. There were quite a few Rit builds that had nothing to do with spirits as well. Rits could also be a healer class as well. Not on the monk scale as ANet has done away with the “healing class” but as a compliment or alternative to the Elementalist or guardian healing.
There are many directions they could go. Most directions I imagine we would not even think of. New classes with old names are already a reality. There is no reason a Rit couldn’t be a new one of those.
or, make it shorter, it’s the longest fractal instance, and easily the most annoying. it’s not extra difficult(unless you get a terrible party) as such, just takes ages.
This I can agree with.
I fractal with the same group of people. There are about eight or nine of us and we all play well together no matter what five of us are doing the fractal. We really don’t have that much of a problem with it. We also don’t get it often.
My problem is the time. It takes forever.
I like the challenge, I don’t like the length when you have three other fractals to complete along with it.
You know there is no reason to be rude to the people posting these threads. If they are that horrible to you why do you read them and comment in them.
I think there are many ways that Anet can re-imagine the Ritualist class. Even with spirits. I don’t believe like most that it could ever come back like it was, but just like the mesmers, the engineers, and the guardians; classes can be reshaped.
Having a blue dorito does not magically imbue someone with capability. There is not real way IMO to actually insure that someone is a good commander or not.
Some of my guildies and I followed a new commander around in WvW last week. Another well known commander was in the group and tagged down. He was very supportive as we all were of the new guy. You only learn by doing. He asked that experienced commander to let him know if he was making a bad decision. He didn’t want to get the group wiped. There were a few times that the other commander made some suggestions and one he just told the other guy, “Don’t do that. It will be bad.” he then explained why.
Everything the new commander did wasn’t optimal, but he tried hard and learned a lot. Overall, he didn’t do a bad job.
I think what makes a good commander now, is how much he is willing to learn from other people and his/her own mistakes.
Just thinking you know everything because you have a tag will come back to bite you in the kitten.
you are right. i was just throwing something out there. i wasnt thinking in depth about it. just that there are other ways around the avatar thing.
I think that in those years the dervishes could have their faith in the gods diminished and instead went to a more direct link to the nature, like nowadays a dervish may use Avatar of Fire instead of Avatar of Balthazar, Avatar of Death (or ice) instead of Avatar of Grenth and so on, that could be a good “workaround” for the avatar thing.
I agree with you both. I don’t think it would be difficult at all to get around the avatar issue. There are many avatar possibilities for devs to use if after all this time the Dervishes abandoned their faith in the human gods.
Well, since they have said there will not be any new content until after the China release, silence is still all they have to actually offer.
What do you want them to say? “Well, China is still not launching until May 30. Just thought you all might want to know so I looks like we are saying something.”
I think it is a matter of personal play style. I like zergging once in a while when I just want to go around mindlessly gathering gold and items and don’t want to think very hard about what I am doing. It is a stress reliever. Other times I want to test my skill ability and challenge myself. Depends on the day.
I think it is evident that people have very different opinions about the matter. For example you have two posts above that are polar opposites right next to each other. @Lambent.6375 who loves zerg content and @morrolan.9608 who thinks it is destroying the game.
I laughed when I saw one of these posts right after the other. It shows that the game is different for every player.
But really, I think Konig hit the nail on the head when he observed that “both sides of the argument, we’re seeing the others’ sentences as something than what the writer intended”. The longer the exchange above went, the more it looks like you both are really agreeing on the fundamentals and arguing over who’s more to blame for the misunderstanding. The only distinction apart from that is that Konig feels – and I agree – that there’s little point following lines of speculation based on the mursaat being non-native when we have no evidence suggesting they’re non-indigenous. Otherwise, we could also be pursuing long lines of speculation based of the idea of quaggans, krait, and pretty much any other race you could care to name being foreign to Tyria.
I agree draxynnic. I wasn’t even remotely trying to turn it into a debate about whether or not they were truly from Tryia or not. I was just throwing a “what if” out there. There are a myriad of similar speculation threads out there on the dragons, Scarlet, etc., etc., etc., etc.
I really enjoy debate on speculation. It is enjoyable to me to discuss possible situations when things are unknown. We most certainly could be pursuing long lines of speculation on almost anything in GW2. It isn’t hard to find some of these long lines here on the forums. It hurts nothing and is enjoyable for many people. If you don’t want to engage in speculative debate, don’t join in. Again, what does it really hurt to speculate about anything? Many of those discussions on speculations started in threads like this.
As for arguing about sentence structure. That is all we have here. This is not a vocal venue. If a person writes something that is clear and to the point, we have nothing else to go by other than those words. You cannot read ‘intent’ in a person’s words here. You can only read what you see. I, along with everyone else on these forums, make mistakes. We write things poorly or just incorrectly. That is going to happen, but when it does just admit it and say, “What I meant” or “What I was trying to say is”. Don’t defend something that is simply, obviously wrong. I have had to do it many times when I write something that was wrongly worded. It kills no one to admit they made a mistake. Yes some sentences can be interpreted several ways. Some cannot.
What I am tired of seeing is people being hateful because they don’t agree with someone else. If you want to be blunt and harsh with me, I promise that is what you are going to receive back from now on.
I don’t know if you remember draxynnic, but you and I have talked about how harsh and hateful people can come across on the forums. Again, we go back to intent. They may not intend to be that way, but nonetheless they are and many make no apologies for it. I for one, am tired of just biting my tongue with these people. Who gives them a free pass to be that way?
I appreciate the fact that some don’t want to speculate or discuss possibilities. Even remote or wild ones. That is perfectly fine and I respect that. However, it is completely unfair to tell those who do enjoy it that they should not.
(edited by jheryn.8390)
The toon I had the least fun with was my sylvari warrior. The warrior class is my second least favorite after leveling one of each class. I like the thief even less.
But my thief is Asura, and I liked the Asura story line at least. The sylvari story line was just not that interesting to me.
Nope, you are wrong.
I guess that we’ll have to agree to disagree, since even re-reading it, I am not confused at all in what I was saying. Were there other ways to word it? Sure. But does the way I worded it hold only te meaning you interpreted? I disagree. Either way, this is pointless. I clarified myself, yet you focus on my wording rather than the meaning.
Since you seem intent on focusing on the wording of my posts, rather than what I am trying (from your perspective) to say, this conversation continuing is pointless.
It was pointless to begin with. I proposed a “what if” and told the truth that there is nothing concrete to absolutely prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mursaat are Tyrian and you took issue with it. You were arguing with a harmless speculation.
Of course you aren’t confused with what you wrote. You wrote it! You think what you actually wrote is what you explained it later to be. It was not. The real problem is that you have no objectivity or editorial eye for your own words.
Well, there you have it. I posed a question.
To play your game: you did not pose a question. You posed a statement. A statement saying “they may not come from Tyria” and supported the statement with the argument of “there is no evidence to argue otherwise.”
Various jheryn.8390 quotes that prove nothing Konig has said
And then, when I said you were arguing for such, you claim I’m twisting your words. Which is another point where you’re arguing against me, not my argument. Which has devolved into this "pointless meandering of methodology of arguments and sentence structures.
LOL You are right I posed a statement not a question. (See how easy that is to admit when you make a mistake?) It was a “what if” statement and an unlikely probability. What makes this is funny is that I asked you where I said that Mursaat were NOT from Tyria and you still haven’t given any evidence. You are the one that turned this into a “pointless meandering of methodology of arguments and sentence structures” by making me out as having said something I did not.
Twist you did. You said that i claimed it was VERY LIKELY and MOST LIKELY that they were not from Tyria. You also haven’t shown this to be true. Even a poster below one of my posts agreed with me. You are the one reading things wrong here, not me.
I quoted you still – verbatim. And the fun fact is that you quote the same lines I did! Isn’t it just hilarious how on both sides of the argument, we’re seeing the others’ sentences as something than what the writer intended?
This will be my final post on this unless you actually discuss the topic, and not the means of conveying the topic. This isn’t Speech or English class here, we aren’t discussing and debating how one should properly communicate with others. If you’re going to devolve this argument into talking about my sentences and not rest until I say “yes, I’m sorry, I wrote it in a way that even I could not correctly understand what I was saying” then it is pointless indeed.
It isn’t hilarious Konig. It is sad that you read into things what you want them to say instead of what they actually do. Yes, you may have quoted different things from me, but had completely no comprehension of what I was saying. Either that or you actually do understand and just want to argue. That isn’t hilarious Konig, it is pitiable.
You obviously read what you want things to mean in many posts in order to discredit posters rather than gleaning their true intent or meaning. Then you argue with that person and don’t stop even if proven wrong. Your posts all over the forums follow this pattern. Many, many people call you on it, but you never admit that you are the one mistaken and not them. You are not always wrong, but you are most certainly not always correct.
I certainly don’t want you to say “yes, I’m sorry”. It is laughable for anyone who knows your methodology of forum debate to ever expect or want that. I’m just not willing to let you bully me like you do so many others into just giving up. And, at least in this instance, the more you try to prove your position, the worse your arguments have become.
My discussion on the topic: I believe the Mursaat more than likely originated in Tyria. As I have stated before. History suggests this but there is no concrete, irrefutable evidence that proves it. Not even the lore god, Konig, can produce such proof. I do not believe that is very likely or most likely that the Mursaat are from somewhere other than Tyria. Also as I have repeatedly stated.
I certainly don’t believe that the above is your final post on this. I’ve watched you badger to many people to believe that. You cannot stand not having the last word.
I’m sorry, I apparently forgot a single comma, which caused you to misunderstand what I was saying. If the second sentence was “At least, that’s confirmed” then there probably wouldn’t have been confusion – actually, I didn’t really forget because how I wrote it still means what I meant.
My second sentence does not state my first was confirmed, it states "at least <pronoun replacing “humans are non-native”> was confirmed."
In which case, you misunderstood, and I could have worded it in less confusing manner.
Nope, you are wrong. The first sentence was “The only race not indigenous to Tyria are humans.” It isn’t confusing. It is very clear and conclusive. Had you said “The only race we know about…” or “Humans are the only race we are sure are not native…” then you would have a leg to stand on. You don’t. Your statement clearly states that Humans are the only non-native Tyrian race. No other implication is given about other races or implied by the second sentence. Even with a comma. “At least, (pronoun that doesn’t indicate humans but rather the validity of the prior statement and actually means ‘that is’) confirmed.” Your comma helped nothing. Your first statement is the problem and your second statement helped it to be that much more solidified. No amount of punctuation will help those two statements mean anything other than, “Humans are the sole non-Tyrian race.” Again, I misunderstood nothing.
So to say that we have to blindly accept any history as truth because it is written or assumed, is faith not fact.
No, I say “we accept what is most likely until otherwise hinted at”. Without debunking evidence, theories can exist – no one denied, to my knowledge and I certainly didn’t, the possibility of mursaat being of Tyrian origins.
Well, there you have it. I posed a question. That is all. I never, not once, said that I believed Mursaat were NOT from Tyria. I just posed a “what if”. I am sorry you don’t understand that. Still unless you have concrete proof/evidence of anything, you believe on faith, not fact. That is true of history, religion, or crimes.
How can I twist your words when I quote you verbatim? No where do you state that Mursaat are “most likely Tyrians” – or any variation of such. I quoted multiple times you saying that “nothing supports they’re Tyrian”. One can and most often will read the denial of one side to be the support of another. This is what I said. I twisted no words, I did not lie.”
Yes you did, and yes you did. Where did you quote me verbatim? You didn’t quote me saying anything of the sort. I challenge you quote me where I said it was most likely Mursaat were not from Tyria. You twisted my words and/or lied by saying that I claimed that it is very likely that they are not from Tryia. You cannot find any evidence to support that. None. Quote me where I implied that.
Well look at this! Here are some quotes from my earlier posts. Isn’t it funny that in the last of these I even say that they are most probably from Tyria? You want verbatim quotes? Here you go.
Firstly, I am not saying that they are not Tyrian, just that there is nothing to support that fact.
So to answer your question, why shouldn’t we believe they are Tyrian? There is no reason we should not. At the same time, since we really know nothing about their origins, why_shouldn’t_ we wonder if their origins may lie elsewhere since other races are not indigenous to Tyria?
Again, I am not saying they are indeed from someplace else. I never, ever implied that they were, but there are a lot of things that are not written and set in stone.
Again, I never claimed that they or any other race were NOT from Tyria. The probability that they are from Tryia much greater than they are not.
There’s two ways of using a strawman argument – one is what you stated, the other is to bring up arguments that other people would possibly use in using the same argument of the present opponent. I do the latter. Perhaps that isn’t straw man arguments though, and something else that I’m just not familiar with technical debate terms to know?
Oh no, you were correct, you did have a straw man argument. You argument fits the definition perfectly. Your argument was not, however ‘bringing up arguments that other people would possibly use in using the same argument of the present opponent.’ For that you have to compare apples to apples. You were comparing apples to socket wrenches.
(edited by jheryn.8390)
I wouldn’t say we have a lot, I wouldn’t say it is a “wealth of knowledge” – I’m just saying it is more than “little to nothing”.
Neither of us will win this argument. In this case, “little to nothing” is a subjective phrase. Yes we know some things before 1070, but I still see it as very little. You do not. What we consider “little” is subjective.
You misread. I said only humans are confirmed non-native. If you read both sentences, I followed saying only humans are not native with “that’s confirmed, at least.”
I believe this is what you said:
The only race not indigenous to Tyria are humans. At least that’s confirmed.
I did not misread. If what you said above about humans being the only confirmed race not native was your intention, you formed your supporting sentences poorly. The first statement clearly says that that the only race not indigenous to Tyria are humans. Period. The second sentence says that your first statement was confirmed to be true.
The lack of such other gods kind of hints to such. If you argue that route, then by racial histories, you can only slap Forgotten, kodan, and quaggan on there – but kodan religion claims they were born on Tyria, not brought to Tyria, just like dwarven myth.
Again, I never claimed that they or any other racew were NOT from Tyria. The probability that they are from Tryia much greater than they are not. Without proven evidence, we will never know 100% even if it is generally accepted as fact. Old real world histories are constantly being proven true, updated or even proven wrong. So to say that we have to blindly accept any history as truth because it is written or assumed, is faith not fact.
Then why were you assuming the mursaat were not native?
I was not. Show me where I said they were definitely not native or “assumed” they were from somewhere else.
You do not deny the possibility, but you countlessly say that there’s no reason to believe they’re native, and constantly press for them not being native. This is, to me at least and I wouldn’t doubt others reading your posts, you theorizing that they are not native. You most certainly never gave hint to them being “very likely native” when you’re constantly arguing that there’s zero support for what you now claim is “very likely”.
Please do not twist my words to suit your arguments. I never said or indicated there was no reason to believe they are not native. Prove that if you are going to say it. I simply threw it out there as a possibility for thought. You accuse me of saying things that are not supported, but you are doing worse with the claims about my words. Prove where I ever claim that it is is “very likely” that they are not from Tyria. I don’t care if you disagree with me, just don’t lie to suit your needs. I was offering speculative possibilities, you are just trying to prove yourself right with fallacies.
It was a strawman argument to show “if you argue that something is possible because of a lack of counter-evidence, well there’s no evidence to say otherwise for this so it is equally possible.”
LOL. Straw man arguments are intentional misrepresentations of an opponent’s position, often used in debates with unsophisticated and ignorant audiences to make it appear that the opponent’s arguments are more easily defeated than they are. In other words, you don’t have a strong argument so you tried to make it sound like you do and that those are reading this are dumb enough to just believe you.
Although I consider you to be a paragon of GW lore knowledge, I think that it is hard for you to deal with things that are unknown.
Hardly, I constantly state that many things taken as fact is, in fact, unknown to us.
This. Thank you for supporting my position. Many things taken as fact are unknown to us.
Bottom line: I never even came close to saying it was very likely Mursaat were not from Tyria. I honestly think they probably are. I simply injected a speculation or wonder at the possibility they might not be. Never. Ever. Did I say that I didn’t believe they were NOT from Tryia.
Please distinguish between a hypothetical possibility and a statement of belief.
I wouldn’t say “little to nothing is known” about the mursaat prior to 1070 AE.
- The White Mantle were formed no latter than 1067 AE, actually, as the Test of the Chosen has occurred for 5 years as of 1072 AE.
- We know that the mursaat were around during the previous rise, being one of the five strongest races.
- We know that they betrayed the other races, nearly wiped out the seers, and then left the world for the Mists.
- We know they created their more powerful magics (their half-stepping into the Mists making them invisible to most, and Spectral Agony) before leaving to the Mists.
- We know that they returned shortly before being called the Unseen Ones, implying returning no earlier than probably 1050 AE.
- We know that they believed in the Flameseeker Prophecies to the point of setting up the White Mantle and Test of the Chosen (again, which began in 1067 AE), which implies they knew of Glint and her credibility as a mindreader/oracle.
- We know they dealt with titans before, given the seer’s line about the titans not changing over the eons.
That seems a lot more than “little to nothing” to be honest.
The only race not indigenous to Tyria are humans. At least that’s confirmed. They were brought by the Six Gods, and though said Six Gods may have brought other races, certainly not those that predate their time on Tyria (world). Which includes: jotun, seers, mursaat, dwarves, karka, djinn, giganticus lupicus, Elder Dragons; and possibly includes: tengu, charr, krait, forgotten, kodan, norn, ogre, at least.
Concrete proof will never exist unless they’re not native to Tyria. Same goes for everything else. Why should we believe they’re not native to Tyria when there is absolutely nothing to imply they’re not native to Tyria? By your argument, I can claim that Dwayna gave birth to Zhaitan.
Seven points of knowledge does constitute knowing little to nothing about them before 1070 IMO. Scientist in the real world know much more about many species and they claim they still know little to nothing about them. So you are wrong if you think that seven points of knowledge constitutes a wealth of knowledge.
Where is it confirmed that ONLY humans are not native to Tyria? And who is to say that other “gods” or the races themselves did not migrate to Tyria? Since Tyria’s history is so much older than we have account for, it is stupid to just assume anything. You know what they say about assuming. I guess you cannot grasp that I said that they very likely to be from Tryia in my post above, and instead want to pick things to contradict. The bottom line is, until we have some more ancient history given to us, no on can say anything for sure.
Also, comparing Dwayna giving birth to Zaihtan to the possibility that a very powerful, magical, realm traversing race not being native to a world is obtuse.
Although I consider you to be a paragon of GW lore knowledge, I think that it is hard for you to deal with things that are unknown.
Again, I am not saying they are indeed from someplace else. I never, ever implied that they were, but there are a lot of things that are not written and set in stone. With the key push of an author sanctioned by ANet things that we don’t know about Tyrian history but “assumed to be true” can be turned completely upside down. I assumed Livia was long dead. She may or not be dead now, but she certainly wasn’t 200 years dead like I assumed she was.
I mostly agree with you here. However, I would just submit that there is also nothing to support that they are of Tyrian origin.
By that argument, then you cannot say anything is of Tyrian origins. Not mursaat, not Elder Dragon, not jotun, not even dwarves.
But the thing is, until we have reason to believe otherwise, why shouldn’t we believe they are of Tyrian origin if they existed in Tyria for as long as their history indicate?
You are correct. We could say that about many races/creatures.
Firstly, I am not saying that they are not Tyrian, just that there is nothing to support that fact. Several creatures/races were brought to Tyria and do not have Tyrian origins. Since they had the ability to traverse the mists, they obviously have access to other realms/places.
Little to nothing is known about the Mursaat before 1070 AE. We know they have been here for a long time, but that is all.
So to answer your question, why shouldn’t we believe they are Tyrian? There is no reason we should not. At the same time, since we really know nothing about their origins, why_shouldn’t_ we wonder if their origins may lie elsewhere since other races are not indigenous to Tyria?
So unless someone has concrete proof the Mursaat are indigenous to Tyria, especially in a fantasy setting where other realms are stated to exist, it doesn’t really matter if people believe they are Tyrian in origin or not.
The mursaat were of the five races that survived the previous Elder Dragon rise. They fled into the Mists to do so. There is nothing to support they are not of Tyrian origin. This actually supports the ‘they can be living elsewhere’ but we were told in Prophecies they were wiped out – told such by the oracle Glint. So it is likely that they’re very few in number, only surviving enough to either not be considered a civilization anymore, or went somewhere Glint couldn’t see. And she saw into the Realm of Torment (or so it is implied).
I mostly agree with you here. However, I would just submit that there is also nothing to support that they are of Tyrian origin.
I also believe you are right in saying that they were probably few in number when Glint provided the Prophecies. That is not to say that the few remaining didn’t make an effort to remedy their nearly extinct status. Some species real and imagined have done this.
Yes, this is speculation on my part and the opposite could be just as valid. However, we know there are cells of White Mantle (who worshiped the Mursaat) around and more supposedly fled to the Maguuma Jungle. Something is obviously still holding them together. A single or multiple Mursaat could as easily be the answer to that as anything.
To elaborate a bit on 1, we saw seven in 1079, and killed them all. The last time a mursaat was seen and left the encounter alive was a year before, in 1078- to our knowledge, at that time and this, that one is the only survivor of the race.
Well, he is the only know survivor of the ones we encountered in Tyria. There could be more living in other places.
Thus, “to our knowledge”. While it can certainly be fun for theory-crafting, I try to keep more-or-less baseless speculation out of the answer when someone asks only for information.
I missed where you said “to our knowledge”. My bad. What wasn’t my bad was that there is no indication or lore that poses the Mursaat were indigenous to Tyria. Since this is a work of fiction, there is only ‘more-or-less baseless’ speculation about anything that happens in the GW world beyond what has been written or in game.
I was not being critical of the information you gave BTW. I was just putting something additional out there. No need to be snide.
To elaborate a bit on 1, we saw seven in 1079, and killed them all. The last time a mursaat was seen and left the encounter alive was a year before, in 1078- to our knowledge, at that time and this, that one is the only survivor of the race.
Well, he is the only know survivor of the ones we encountered in Tyria. There could be more living in other places.
No, simply no… You save less than a bag of items with em. What you need of gathering items:
Ori sickle/axe/pick in character window
Ori sickle/axe/pick in a bag (or 2 of each if you wanna be safe)
10-12 crude salvaging kits, 1 mystic kit.This gives you:
100-150 plant gathering usages
200-300 wood/ore gathering usages
150-180 salvage usages for green-
250 salvage usages for yellow+You can buy ori gathering tools in heart of the mists, any wvw zone near start point, every city and vigil’s camp, every craft trainer, orr & FS. So plenty of places to quickly restock if you depleted your stock. salvage kits are soo easy to find it’s a joke.
So seriously, why waste 100s of gold for convenience items that can remain on 1 char at a time UNLESS you go VISIT A BANK to pick it up on another char, which conveniently are in the same area as the merchants i mentioned above!
Money isn’t the only factor here, however. I have mine for the convenience and couldn’t care less whether or not it is cost effective.
I suppose it all depends on the person and what they want out of it whether or not it is worth it. For me it is.
It is completely worth it to me.
I don’t have to worry about what kind of harvesting equipment I have equipped. Don’t have to worry about having ruined mats or waste uses of high level harvesters on low level mats. Also don’t have to worry about running out when farming.
Are you talking about the ascended rings in the end reward or just drops from creatures?
If you are talking about ascended rings, they are common drops for end reward. The only other drop are ascended boxes and they are very rare.
In other words, reporting does nothing.
In other words: take screen shots, be sure to note the times of the infraction, write down as many details as possible and be patient because they have alot to weed through.
^This. During the marionette event there was a person who was verbally abusing many people including two in my guild.
The five of us in my guild at that event took screenshots of the abuse and reported it. He tended to be that sort of person and was always at the event being hateful. A couple of days after that, he was not to be seen at the event again.
A couple of those guildmates put him on their friends list to see if he was still in the game. It was quite a while before either of him saw him logged on after that. About a month I believe. So we are assuming he was at least temporarily banned for his actions. So reporting does seem to work.
9 Characters
8 Level 80
1 – 100% map completion (1 at 95% and 2 at 80%)
Why would you not do Bandit after troll?
I have no idea. If you do you are wasting money on an extra waypoint jump.
Boar>Troll>Bandit>Oak and Wasp when up on the way to Boar again.
I’ve seen a few people post that they do Bandit after Oak and I don’t get it. That’s just an added waypoint that cuts into profit. It makes much more sense to run to Bandit from Troll then do Oak.
Agreed. Extra waypoint jump is a waste of money.
@Magnus Steelgrave.6580 and @William Bradley Knight.2609. That order is the same for Yak’s Bend as well.
Thanks God. No more brainless zombies playing this game just for the AP.
Thanks God, ANet.
What do you care how anyone plays the game? So what if they want to play the game for AP? If that what makes it fun for them, then great. They are playing the game how they want to play which is awesome.
People should play how they want. They certainly shouldn’t be subjected to your rude and strictly lopsided opinions.
The reason is ( for me, personally ) as follows:
We had a great guildmate. At first, when we all started playing the game, he was very helpful and engaged in all guild activities.
After a couple of months time, he became an AP zombie. Whenever he logged in the game, he would do ALL AP EVERY SINGLE DAY. He stopped helping newer guildmates, stopped participating in guild missions and any other guild-related activies. He started cursing new guildmates just because he “was busy doing something he had to do, which is all ap for today, otherwise someone else would surpass him.” ( his words ).Yes, I do care how other people play, so do our guildmates who want to have a healthy environment within the guild and game’s community.
Cheers
So let me get this straight. Because one guy who chased AP points made it bad for you personally and those in your guild, all AP chasers are brainless zombies? That is certainly what you were indicating in the way you stated what you said. And how do AP chasers derogatorily affect the game’s community? The answer is that they do not. As long as they are not in your guild, they don’t affect you at all.
There were numerous threads of the kind of our guild’s experience on this forums. Henceforth, it is more likely that it has nothing to do with a narrow community of my guild, but the game’s community as a whole.
Thanks for the discussion.
Cheers
I never indicated that others didn’t have a similar situation. But there are many in my guild who are AP chasers and they do not adversely affect us at all. They do their thing and join in when they want.
I know others who are not in my guild who go about their day chasing AP points and they don’t hurt a soul.
So how is it that any of those people I just referenced hurt you? What did they ever do to you to be called ‘brainless zombies’? How are they adversely affecting you or the community in any way? Blanket statements like that are uncalled for.
You seem to be missing the obvious: as the incidents that affect me are apparent in other groups of people, totally unrelated to me, it is rather logical to assume that the GW2 community may experience the issue as a whole. It has nothing to do with the fact that the experiences of the other groups of people do not affect me DIRECTLY.
Unsound arguments are unwanted here.
Cheers
Maybe it isn’t me who is missing the obvious, but you. I indicated that I was sure that other had similar situations. I also indicated that there are like just as many who do not have that problem as observed from people my guild.
There are, in fact, probably more people who do not share your problem because people do not generally go onto forums and start threads that say things like “We are happy with our AP chasers because they don’t bother us.” It is only those who have issues that post threads. Added to that, there are so many more people who do not post or frequent GW2 forums than there are those who are. Also, thread tend to be negative or informational rather than positive.
Also, I am not vain enough to believe that all things I have difficulties with and see similar threads posted here in the forums are universal.
My argument wasn’t unsound, it was completely valid. I think your difficulty with it actually comes from the fact that someone has an opposing view of your situation. I understand what you are saying, I just don’t think it is a community wide detriment.
To put a twist on your statement: Nonobjective arguments that result in name calling never needed anywhere.
Thanks God. No more brainless zombies playing this game just for the AP.
Thanks God, ANet.
What do you care how anyone plays the game? So what if they want to play the game for AP? If that what makes it fun for them, then great. They are playing the game how they want to play which is awesome.
People should play how they want. They certainly shouldn’t be subjected to your rude and strictly lopsided opinions.
The reason is ( for me, personally ) as follows:
We had a great guildmate. At first, when we all started playing the game, he was very helpful and engaged in all guild activities.
After a couple of months time, he became an AP zombie. Whenever he logged in the game, he would do ALL AP EVERY SINGLE DAY. He stopped helping newer guildmates, stopped participating in guild missions and any other guild-related activies. He started cursing new guildmates just because he “was busy doing something he had to do, which is all ap for today, otherwise someone else would surpass him.” ( his words ).Yes, I do care how other people play, so do our guildmates who want to have a healthy environment within the guild and game’s community.
Cheers
So let me get this straight. Because one guy who chased AP points made it bad for you personally and those in your guild, all AP chasers are brainless zombies? That is certainly what you were indicating in the way you stated what you said. And how do AP chasers derogatorily affect the game’s community? The answer is that they do not. As long as they are not in your guild, they don’t affect you at all.
There were numerous threads of the kind of our guild’s experience on this forums. Henceforth, it is more likely that it has nothing to do with a narrow community of my guild, but the game’s community as a whole.
Thanks for the discussion.
Cheers
I never indicated that others didn’t have a similar situation. But there are many in my guild who are AP chasers and they do not adversely affect us at all. They do their thing and join in when they want.
I know others who are not in my guild who go about their day chasing AP points and they don’t hurt a soul.
So how is it that any of those people I just referenced hurt you? What did they ever do to you to be called ‘brainless zombies’? How are they adversely affecting you or the community in any way? Blanket statements like that are uncalled for.
Thanks God. No more brainless zombies playing this game just for the AP.
Thanks God, ANet.
What do you care how anyone plays the game? So what if they want to play the game for AP? If that what makes it fun for them, then great. They are playing the game how they want to play which is awesome.
People should play how they want. They certainly shouldn’t be subjected to your rude and strictly lopsided opinions.
The reason is ( for me, personally ) as follows:
We had a great guildmate. At first, when we all started playing the game, he was very helpful and engaged in all guild activities.
After a couple of months time, he became an AP zombie. Whenever he logged in the game, he would do ALL AP EVERY SINGLE DAY. He stopped helping newer guildmates, stopped participating in guild missions and any other guild-related activies. He started cursing new guildmates just because he “was busy doing something he had to do, which is all ap for today, otherwise someone else would surpass him.” ( his words ).Yes, I do care how other people play, so do our guildmates who want to have a healthy environment within the guild and game’s community.
Cheers
So let me get this straight. Because one guy who chased AP points made it bad for you personally and those in your guild, all AP chasers are brainless zombies? That is certainly what you were indicating in the way you stated what you said. And how do AP chasers derogatorily affect the game’s community? The answer is that they do not. As long as they are not in your guild, they don’t affect you at all.
Thanks God. No more brainless zombies playing this game just for the AP.
Thanks God, ANet.
What do you care how anyone plays the game? So what if they want to play the game for AP? If that what makes it fun for them, then great. They are playing the game how they want to play which is awesome.
People should play how they want. They certainly shouldn’t be subjected to your rude and strictly lopsided opinions.
Put it back the way it was. That is all.
French Maid, Go-Go Dancer, Construction Worker, Fireman, and Rock Star.
Tell me you wouldn’t find a char in any one of those outfits hilarious.
This system is similar to the system in GW1. I would think the GW1 fans would appreciate it, I guess not.
No it’s not.
In GW1, you hunted a boss for an elite skill. You had henchmen and heroes and could solo the bosses no problems. And you could go get it whenever you wanted. The boss was always there. No waiting for other players, no fail timer to have to beat, you could do it when you wanted at your own pace.
In GW2, you have to do the massive scale world events to get a trait. Not a skill, a trait. Grenth? Karka Queen? Yeah. You have to rely on other players to not mess things up just so YOU can get a new trait. And it’s all on timers as well. So you can’t do it whenever you want, you have to deal with boss timers before you can even get a chance to get your new trait.
And over time, after players have got the trait, and no one is doing those events anymore, good luck getting your trait with no one to help.
So yeah. It’s nothing like it was in GW1.
Yes it is.
‘Similar’ is the word used by Dusty Moon. Dusty didn’t say it was ‘exactly like.’
It is most certainly similar in that you have to go out into the open world to do something to get the trait. Just as you had to do in GW1 to get an elite skill. The similarity may end there, but saying it is ‘nothing like it was in GW1’ is wrong.
Also, these traits can be purchased if you can’t get the event to happen because of the situation you described, then buy it. You don’t need luck to get it.
OMG. Calm down. It will happen when it happens. Some of you are going to raise your blood pressure to critical levels.
We encourage our guild members to join other guilds if they want. We are all pretty good friends and there are other guilds that help many of our guildies get what they cannot get in our guild.
We are mainly a Dungeon/Fractal and a lot of PvE guild. Some of our members love WvW and we encourage them to join a WvW focused guild if they want to play more WvW.
Some of our members have goals that we don’t. Many of us do not care if we beat Tequatl or the Wurms in Bloodtide. So we encourage those that want that to join a guild like TTS.
It all depends on your guilds perspective and how secure they are with their membership.
The Dervish is an enchant profession. Since there are no enchants in GW2, it would be hard to have a Dervish.
It was but that can be easily changed. Mesmers were a hex profession with very different abilities than they have now.
Lore wise, a Dervish is also based heavily on human gods. It would be pretty hard to justify that for Charr or Asura.
True, but that also is an easy fix I believe. Maybe they have given up their faith in the human gods, and are now more of a ancestral spirit class. Or better yet, they could be a class that draws power from the mists. That would work well for any of the races.
I believe ANY of the former classes could be reworked. Guardians filled a role (sort of) left by monks. Thieves are the new Assassin. GW2 Mesmers are the new GW1 Mesmer. lol All are different and reworked. I think any former class except monks could make it back.
One think I think doesn’t makes Dervishes viable right now is that they are pretty much an Elona profession.
My favorite class of all time is the Ritualist. As much as I would like to have one back, they are a product of Cantha.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I would like to see new zones, some new dungeons that stay in game, but the point I made above is going to be the same. I hope they do add some permanent content in the second LS, I hope things change with the existing zones, but don’t say drop the LS, cause the moment they do that, then we have long periods with stale content while we wait.
Exactly. I want permanent content too, but not at the expense of not having new things infused into the game on a regular basis. I agree with you 100%.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I would like to see new zones, some new dungeons that stay in game, but the point I made above is going to be the same. I hope they do add some permanent content in the second LS, I hope things change with the existing zones, but don’t say drop the LS, cause the moment they do that, then we have long periods with stale content while we wait.
The majority of the Living Story after Zephyr Sanctum was a long period with stale content in my eyes.
I understand what you are saying Flytrap, but Hjorje said, he didn’t like all of the LS story either, but it was at least constant new material. Anet will not make anything that all people will like. Whether or not it is truly stale is very subjective. I liked the LS. Many did not. It was still more than you get out of many MMO’s.
It has been proven that sub games offer more bang for your buck.
Proof? Where? Just saying there is proof doesn’t make it so.
In fairness Anet has to make a profit and GW2 is not free as many people keep trying to say.
The first part is true. Anet does have to make a profit, but the second half is bunk. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. That is personal choice pure and simple. It’s funny but I don’t ever recall an Anet heavy hitter breaking into my home and forcing me to purchase anything from the gem shop. GW 2 is free to play if you choose to make it that way.
But, The micro transaction model nickle and dimes each and every player if given the chance and the fanboi’s will tell you that you don’t have to spend a dime – but the honestly truth is YES people do have to spend money on the gem shop in order for GW2 to continue to be profitable and stay open.
I love how you try to pre-label and quantify an argument calling someone a fanboi if they dare to disagree with your argument. Micro transactions do fund the game, but not everyone has to partake in them and many do not. There are plenty of willing people who pay real life money in the gem shop because they want to, not because they have to.
It costs more for the above then a simple sub fee and you also get more with a sub fee.
No it doesn’t. Again, it costs nothing if you chose play that way. It doesn’t make me a fanboi by saying that it makes me someone who understands reality and doesn’t make over inflated claims.
Also, This next patch offers many changes but none of which is any type of content. The next time we see something will likely be after season 2 which is FAR FAR to long.
And what lets you believe that it will be after season 2 before any new content comes along? Crystal Ball? Psychic? Fortune Cookie?