Guild Wars 2

Razor.6392:

Oh look it’s the mesmers guy. I haven’t had a chance to laugh at you after the repeated nerfs that mesmers received but I’ll do it now.

Hahaha

BLAH BLAH BLAH… And exactly where does Ele stand in pvp… Also not maining mesmer atm maining guard. But mesmer still needs work.

Paciunek.2496:

Tei.1704:

There are a lot of situations where self healing isn’t enough. This is especially true for people running glass cannons. If everyone is running hybrid builds just to have a chance at surviving, dps might suffer too much. Also, healing turret is a very strong heal. It has a large aoe radius, removes two conditions, makes a water field, casts quickly and has a low cooldown. Solo or group, healing turret has a lot of merit.

It isn’t selfish to expect people to play and build like they are in a group when they are in a group. What’s selfish is joining a group while having no desire or intent to work with them.

So, it’s understandable to get more apprehensive about being a team player when you’re with bad players? You do realize that only makes things worse right? Your party members could clearly use assistance that you can provide, but you refuse to give any. How often does that make success more likely?

What situations? I can’t recall any. I’m using glass cannon builds on every character excluding guardian and I don’t need anybody to heal or buff me. It’s nice, but it’s not something to be expected from pugs. Every profession have its own ways to survive, and wannabe supports are annoying because I expect fast run without problems, not long run with tons of unnecessary healing. Focus on your own damage and survival; if you play well, it shouldn’t be a problem. If it is, you should consider changing your build or gear.
Also I didn’t said I’m playing selfish build. Actually I like being useful, unlike many people, but I don’t demand any support from my team (and usually don’t get any). But if they’re good players, they’ll play well and that’s enough for me.
Topics like this are only for whining: someone died in dungeon and is frustrated, because it’s others fault, not his. Where’s your Disenchanter?!

In dungeons, I am the last one in my group to die. I still crit for high amounts have good survive, and good support. It’s annoying when you are in a pug group and have one mesmer in it. You ask the mesmer “Hey can you use the disenchanter on this boss it works really well at stripping the protection.” then here crickets…. And just hope they slotted it on their bar. Then you see they didnt and ask… “Main handsword?” And get a sharp “Im condi build MH sword is useless!” So now group overall DPS is significantly lowered from someone either A.) taking time to kill the protection turret or B..) trying to power through it even though that will not work at all.

And banner warrior has nothing to do with survival but upping peoples DPS. Any combo field is pretty much useful especially fire and water those two are the most useful in this game hands down.

DivineSlayer.5039:

If you need heals from other party members you should learn to dodge.

It’s not that I need heals. I run a knights/zerker hammer staff guard with good group healing and perma AOE protection with the hammer symbol.

What is nice though is seeing a ranger or engi have a waterfield that I can blast for nice AOE group heals. If it’s the ranger I can blast it twice before it disappears. That is a very nice situation to have you see.

Blackmoon.6837:

Woah woah woah. Don’t go generalizing players over your few bad experiences.

Mesmer here (only character since beta). Been running the same build and trait setup for the past six months+.

Mantra of Resolve is now in full force. I love using it more than ever because now I can cleanse my allies. I’ve always ran with Signet of Inspiration, which I always activate to give my allies boons etc. (although I’m still iffy if it’s working correctly).

I do mostly focus on DPS with a 20/30/20/0/0 setup and traits + upgrades that cater to crit damage, prec and might stacks. All in all, I’ve always been able to get the job done and support my group accordingly.

But I think I’ve gone and rambled at this point. xD So uhhh… yea…

Which is great! This one isn’t directed at you then

spoj.9672:

disenchanter is good for the golem in coe, thats about it.

That’s exactly the situation i am talking about too.

So I run dungeons pretty much nightly and do almost all of them. And builds that just seem to peeve me beyond belief are the following

1. Full signet anything but thief (i can live with that as long as they have shadow refuge signet thief helps the deeps.)
2. Warriors that run signets which give buffs only to themselves (might/fury) when they could run the banners and have it be party wide.
3. Rangers/engis that refuse to run the party heals which provide water fields.
4. Meditation guards (shouts/consecrations are always better for parties).
5. Mesmers that have absolutely no clue where the iDisenchanter is on their bar (HP is much better now).

So I am just curious how many people here run “selfish” builds in dungeons meaning builds that do absolutely nothing for your party. If so why do you do that? It does nothing for your party and if anything brings them down some…. There are great weapons/traits/skills that all classes have which are great for the party… So why the full signet builds, why the very begrudgement when someone asks you to run a banner instead of the signet? I guess I just don’t get it. I understand the play how you want mantra but in something like a dungeon shouldn’t the goal be to play as a team?

Crovax.7854:

bromi.7809:

I’m very, very sorry; since when ‘OP’ <25% ANY character doesn’t die from simple burst of almost any class?
You play condition meta, ask nerf conditions and at the same time whine on smth (AR) that just calls for burst… are you hearing yourself?

Automated immunity is bad design. Giving people more
tools to deal with applied conditions is one thing. Making them
immune below a certain threshold is another as it hardcounters
any condition build. Again, an advantage due to build is fine,
the fact that a certain type of damage flat out doesn’t work is not.
That’s the same as if warriors had a GM trait in defense that gives them
immunity to physical damage below 25% health.

And please don’t come with warrior zerker stance. It only lasts 8 seconds
(52 secs downtime!) and he has to give up a utility slot.

Engi condi clear methods are much much worse than other classes without AR though. I mean they don’t even get a trait that deals with condi clear until you get 20pts into alchemy. Add to it being just one condition. Where as warriors (the real problem with warior condi clear) is cleansing ire. That is 3 conditions every 7seconds… Boils down to 1 condition cleared every 2 seconds. Best self condi clear in game.

Failth.2935:

That’s just ridiculous….

What level exotics are you using? Just wondering if that matters….
So far over 550g lost on lvl 76 exotics myself and this thread just makes me sad
And jelly….. so jelly

550g? Just buy the fricking pre that’s what I did I hate the toilet and only ever use it to get things that have set recipes in the forge. Screw RNG

I love rangers in fotm if they are good. They need to be running healing spring and war horn. Every class has certain weapons that are usually a must in fractals. Mesmer mainhand sword in dredge, staff guard (and hammer imo).
Warriors must bring banners and FGJ, I don’t care if you are gods gift to warriors I am kicking you from my group if you are running 5 signets. If you are a thief I hope you actually are running all signets because that is some good deeps given the fact that you swap around as necessary with shadow refuge and smoke screen.

Its just the greatswords are so played out… Meteorlogicus is cool but its not quite in your face… I like juggernaut most because it changes your entire armor giving you some really cool metallic colors that just aren’t in game. ha

So what are peoples thoughts on the best looking legendary since the reason to get them is mostly aesthetic. My vote is Juggernaut.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Mesmer’s initially just showed on the mini-map as the Mesmer himself. I felt this was unfair to them exclusively because their class mechanics rely on deception. It made it so you basically ALWAYS knew which one was the real Mesmer because you just had to simply look at the map.

If you guys can provide a reasonable and better solution in terms of what we could do for Mesmer’s feel free to lay it on the table and we will consider it. Clutter is definitely an issue in itself; one we haven’t really solved in other areas of the game either.

My question is why show enemy players on the map at all… part of being a good team is communicating the other teams numbers and positions. If you miscount you may lose a fight… This just dumbs it down.

Relentliss.2170:

Dardamaniac.1295:

Guardians may not be OP now but they defently have potential to become the OPiest class ever…
Back in beta they were..
Guardians have many blocks,inv,etc etc..
Anet said they wanted to buff the dmg of Guardians…Judging from their “balancing skills” i bet 10 dollars that they would be really OP after dec patch…

Let’s get some perspective. In Beta they had higher health AND blocked 20% of attacks. Both have been nerfed into the ground.

Guardiam has long been one of the most balanced classes in the game and while other classes have gotten nice buffs, Guardian has experienced nerf after nerf to key class abilities. TBH other classes even bunker better in many situations. Unlike other classes it only has one real build for tpvp and some minor variations of it.

Like any class there are some thief builds that guardian just tears apart and others they struggle with.

^This right here. People need to read it and comprehend it.

Guardians OP? huh? when did this happen? And there are these things called protection blind and aegis….. Guardians can get them but that is what is part of being a guardian is!

JonPeters.5630:

I think we have a pretty good understanding of the mesmer scepter auto attack problem. I would really like to design a chain of auto attacks here that end with something good, and then allow the clones generated from scepter to also do that thing. That being said, we are trying to avoid just condition spam overload with that weapon because that would be greatly compounded by clones spamming as well.

Because you know nearly everyone else can’t condi spam like crazy….

Zanryu.3417:

Our burst and mobility aren’t as good as other classes that don’t rely on high HP pools to survive. See: Thief and Mesmer.

Guardians tend to be the better overall option to bunker with, and even as a condition build our performance is outshined by Engineer and Necromancer. Yes, Warriors have builds allowing them to do quite a few things, however what they can do gets outshined by other classes that can do the same thing. With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build. Sure, you can get to points or escape quicker, but when it comes to the fighting you’re going to be worse off than another Warrior using defensive utilities.

I’ve played Necro and Mesmer, and I’ve gotta say they outperform Warriors in condition and burst damage respectively. My Necro was actually capable of bunkering fairly decently thanks to Death Shroud. I’m not saying I was a pro at it as I didn’t play too large of an amount of games as a Necro, but it did fairly well. I even hopped on it lately for a game or two and was landing quite a few kills from conditions spam.

I’m sorry but warrior burst is much better than a mesmer in terms of straight damage. In order for mesmers to get “good” bursts they have to sacrifice any and all defensive utilities and traits. Warriors deal ridiculous burst while being specced completely down one of their defensive lines.

Casmurro.9046:

Its only the full signet warriors that get hate? What about the full signet guardians rangers thieves etc, is it ok for a thief to go full signet but not for a warrior?

Because thief team support especially in the offensive aspect is eh… Rangers can still support great with their pets if they use signets and as long as they have healing spring and off hand warhorn they are accepted.

Full signet build guardians should not do it they should never ever do it. But even if they do… certain symbols/weaponskills provide good team support.

Warriors banners and for great justice are absolutely amazing teamsupport… The big thing is why bring like signet of might or fury which only buff my own stats when I could bring banner of strength or discipline and improve my entire groups DPS significantly…

mistt.3698:

anyway i still think MB(mighty blow) should have atleast dmg as Rangers have with GS Maul skill its around X2 more dmg .
then hammer will be realy heavy wep that does normal Dmg

Maul is not a blast finisher…
Maul is not a blast finisher….
Maul is not a blast finisher….

You are underestimating the importance of a hammer being kitten CD blast finisher…. This basically means if you throw a field up you can immediately blast it if you see your ranger friend throws a water field up you can immediately blast it you can blast your light fields for retal, poison fields for weakness.

Hammer is a very TEAM friendly weapon just like guardian is a very TEAM friendly profession. Anything a group does they generally do better with a guardian in the mix.

If you want high single target deeps and nothing else you are playing the wrong class.. Go thief…
If you want a weapon that while clunky and slow has several different applications and is useful almost anywhere (esp in pvp Idk what people are smoking saying hammer sucks in pvp). Then you want a hammer guard.

Five second blast finisher is essentially on demand given that most fields will be up at least long enough for you to blast once.

Hammer is Amazing…. AA could use some speeding up but other than that… its fine.

Cloudwalkernz.1328:

I just met a guy with 5 legendary in a dungeon PUG. I have a legendary as well but that guys just made me feel so under-equipped – almost feel like naked even!

Come to think of it, most people in Pug nowadays have at least 1 legendary. Many have 2 or more. If you use the number of people standing outside of the LA bank as an indication, 8 out of 10 people must have at least 1 legendary. The last 20% must be people who have just started, people playing alts, or people simply don’t like the looks of the legendary.

I think it is about time to make legendary weapon legendary again:
TIME TO RAISE THE LEVEL CAP!

This will make all current legendary obsolete. New better looking and harder to get level 100 legendary can be introduced. Image your legendary weapons are rare again and not a standard issued piece of tin foil that everyone who wants it has.

You all agree with me? Yes!

Ever stop and think that maybe that guy just bought allll of his legendaries…. lol. In which case don’t feel like your accomplishment is meaningless.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

/grumble

Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)

All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.

I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.

Thanks for the feedback. We had the same discussion internally on that one. Back in alpha/beta, there were lockdown Mesmer builds that COULD keep someone down for 6-7 seconds…and it was brutal.

We’re afraid to go back to that, but as you can tell with these changes, we do want to augment the current Mesmer’s efficacy in regard to shutdown. It can just be scary if we go too high with it…..so we’ll think this one over some more.

The problem that occurred however is instead of a mesmer keeping one person locked down for 6-7s we ran into warriors that could keep entire points locked down for 3+seconds and single person locked down for much much longer…..

If you want mesmer to be a “control” class… Don’t make warrior better at it than we are.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

AgentChaos.4932:

good change to symbol of swiftness but can we have pure of voice removes 2 condi back?

I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that one.

Then why is it that warriors get an easy 3 condi clear every 7 seconds in a master tree warhorn trait that converts a condition to a boon in a master tree (affects allies as well), yet guards have to go into a GM tree to get a condi to boon conversion and it only does 1!? Just curious….

healing signet by itself isn’t ridiculously OP… However coupled with adrenal health (same line for cleansing ire) and it starts to get a little ridic…

To get the amount of healing and condition removal that warriors get from adrenal health+HS guards have to go at least 30 points into one trait line and
20 into another…. Warriors have to slot a number six skill and give up 15-20 points…

Big difference… Then we have something like phantasmal healing for mesmers… Ooo yay regen… “rolls eyes”. The combo of HS+adrenal health passive heals that don’t come from regen the boon are what makes warriors monsters… And even if warriors don’t have any traits for regen they are likely to get it from a teammate then bam they now have 3 passive healing ticks going all completely independent from one another.

baylock.1703:

Today I was feared out of blurred frenzy? really? was it bug or you can be feared out of it now?

Maybe it happened almost as the evade frame was ending. …. but then again ever since the nerf…. Who knows.

My one question… Why can warriors reliably cleanse more conditions more often than guardians who are supposed to be the “tanky” hard to kill come at me bro class… Why are virtually no warrior condition clearing traits in GM when guardians most preferred is and it relies on guards slotting 3 specific skills and a rune set just to keep up. Why can warriors heal better than guardians over time wihtout putting anything into healing power while the guard has to sacrifice everything to try and get good heals….

Lastly why does warrior have the best and longest access to self stability and the most access to hard CC on the shortest CDs….

Right now this is why I don’t play pvp since the beginning of oct its either stun meta or condi meta and on several occasions you face a stun/condi combo team… Its ridiculous. Fix your PVP anet.

Wanze.8410:

jportell.2197:

Saulius.8430:

• Chests, character level 20-30
• Containers dropped by level 20-30 foes
• Very small chance as a mystic forge random reward from throwing in 4 random gems
• Buying from trade post

lvl80 characters can do the latter 3

Its not in containers dropped by level 20-30 foes. It is in the loot tables for characters that are level 20-30.

Small and Light Miners Bag, Bag of Pilfered Goods and Light Bags of Booty all drop silver doubloons and drop from Dredge, Bandits, Seperatists and Pirates lvl 20-30.

Perfectly farmable by a lvl 80 character.

They only drop if the level of the character farming them is level 20-30. Usually if you get something from these bags a lot of times it will either just contain crafting material of a low grade (not doubloons), or a piece of blue or green level 80 gear…. Cleared an entire map on my level 80 just to test it and killed nothing but the 20-30 mobs absolutely no doubloons ever and it was about 7-8 hours of nothing but pve.

Not fair that doubloons have actually passed lodestones in value on the market… Not fair that while lodestones may be slightly more expensive individually the investment for the legendaries is overall less. :/

Saulius.8430:

• Chests, character level 20-30
• Containers dropped by level 20-30 foes
• Very small chance as a mystic forge random reward from throwing in 4 random gems
• Buying from trade post

lvl80 characters can do the latter 3

Its not in containers dropped by level 20-30 foes. It is in the loot tables for characters that are level 20-30.

Obtena.7952:

You just mentioned the ways … Buy, convert in MF and as we know, the chests. How many more are needed? 2 of those 3 methods are accessible by ANYONE at ANY level.

Lodestones are completely RNG dependent as well and you DON’T require an endgame character to get those either … So far your points are not making doubloons sound worse than getting lodestones. In fact, it’s proving equal.

The main difference is that you can get lodestones to drop by doing (the proper) endgame content. In otherwords, Silver doubloons don’t favour people that don’t want to make the effort to get them.

If they are so much easier to obtain then why is it that silver doubloons are more expensive than all but one type of lodestone? And lodestones aren’t necessarily completely RNG dependent as usually people get 1-2 cores per three paths they do in a dungeon and those have a SET recipe to turn into a lodestone should the player choose to do it. Silver doubloons are the only gem/rare item used in crafting legendaries that doesn’t have a set recipe to make if you get something that is one tier down from it.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

When a crafting material costs more than a higher tier material of the same variety (ie doubloons) something is wrong. Drop rates need adjusting, or the crafting recipes need to be changed, or both.

^This right here. This can also be seen in the price of Iron ore or soft wood logs…

Obtena.7952:

parking at the JP isn’t the only way to get silver doubloons though…

Oh? Outside of buying them or throwing randoms in the mystic toilet what do you suggest? Unlike lodestones which have a very decent drop rate in their respective dungeons (onyx for TA, Charged for COE, Molten/Destroyer in COF/SE), Silver Doubloons are completely RNG dependent and the only mat that requires a character to NOT be in end game mode….

This is the one eyebrow raising thing about juggernaut…. All other legendary mats can be farmed easily by level 80 characters yet juggernaut requires you to level someone just to 21-30 range and park them at a JP just to get silver doubloons….

Simple solution if it is really going to be apart of legendaries then swap the In game value with platinum doubloons as well as the stat bonus. Or just simply add silver doubloons to the level 80 loot tables.

The big thing I don’t get is getting legendaries are supposed to be “end game” material…. So why to get end game material do I need to make another character level them up to 21-30 and then park them at a JP when they are clearly not in “end game” mode. All other mats for legendaries can be obtained reliably by the level 80 characters that are farming for them…. So why should juggernaut be any different?

Edit: It’s not so much that I think they are too rare but the steps you have to take say if you have nothing but 80s just to get these without paying ridiculous market prices is absurd.

I think the point people are trying to get at here… Is for the level the item ACTUALLY is at (meaning in game, the crafting discipline level etc.) is more expensive than it really should be. Its almost like saying copper ingots should be going for 50s a piece on the market which everyone knows is just a little ridiculous. The justification behind the silver doubloon price is shoddy at best. This whole time I was worried about how much the molten lodestones would be for quicksilver then I look at doubloons and face palm. Essentially these items are much rarer than lodestones and are way way inflated.

Errant Venture.9371:

jportell.2197:

Errant Venture.9371:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).

Lopez.7369:

I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.

Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.

Which is funny because back in january when asked about warriors terrible condi removal the devs stated that (paraphrased) the warriors high armor/damage/and health pool is kind of why they are slightly lacking on condi clear. Now with cleansing IRE they can self clear condis better than several guard builds. Which IMO is a little ridic considering that guard has low health and low damage.

Massive condi clean is an issue I don’t really want to get into in this thread, but it definitely is something that needs to be addressed now that the real culprits of the condi meta (dhuumfire +spirit rangers) have been shaved enough to make power builds viable again.

Except the condis were strong before that. People just were so obsessed with huge numbers they never tried condis out. Now that they see how crazy condi’s can get… They may also see they were never in need of a buff. Just player attention.

infantrydiv.1620:

fugazi.5139:

infantrydiv.1620:

Fenix.4795:

Dunno why everyone kittenes about Healing Signet, yea maybe it should be reduced a little bit but you make it seem to be invincible. If its so good how come I get absolutely murdered by conditions if I dont have berserker stance up?

Probably because you go romping in the AoE like its a field of flowers because you play warrior

hahaahah omfgf i just spit my drank out….ROMPING IN THE AOE LIKE ITS A FIELD OF FLOWERS.

Can’t tell if troll or srs o.0 lol

Knowing fugazi she serious

Errant Venture.9371:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Unfortunately it isn’t that simple. If you deplete the Adrenaline, then they proc their Cleansing Ire (which technically would be a buff for good players).

Lopez.7369:

I’m with you on the cooldown, but depleting adrenaline would be a buff because of Cleansing Ire. It’s not like adrenaline is hard to come by, anyway.

Simple, change Cleansing Ire to require a hit + depleted adrenaline to remove conditions. If you miss with your burst you get depleted adrenaline + no condi clear. Sucks for bad players but that’s what you get for not making sure your target is locked down before you burst them. It wouldn’t even be a huge nerf, you can still charge adrenaline while Bursts are on recharge and 3 condis cleared every 8s is already a MUCH higher rate of condi clear than any other class can achieve.

Which is funny because back in january when asked about warriors terrible condi removal the devs stated that (paraphrased) the warriors high armor/damage/and health pool is kind of why they are slightly lacking on condi clear. Now with cleansing IRE they can self clear condis better than several guard builds. Which IMO is a little ridic considering that guard has low health and low damage.

This is kind of why my mesmer is shelved atm. I love the group support role… And mesmer just doesn’t do it all that hot. However your analysis about the defender is skewed. In pve its amazing and coupled with SOI+persisting images that thing is very hard to kill and a great tank for the short CD.

keenlam.4753:

Wait.. what?
IC doesn’t reduce iCounter CD?

never has… I think the same can be said for illusionary riposte on the off hand sword.

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

Oh yes that soldiers guardian deals so much damage with their extremely obvious animation slow auto attacks and short leaps. That’s soooo much damage man!

He’s doing it with staff. Yes, outdpsing necro with staff. Think about that fact before you post again, avoid making yourself look even sillier.

Staff auto attack? Or maybe dat symbol of swiftness does so much damage? Wow… I don’t even just wow…. Staff auto is good for the wide range but is it gonna out DPS well anything? HA! Just HA!
The orb damage is low as well even when detonated plus the ridiculously long cooldown when detonated. Staff is great for healing, getting some self healing through AH via symbol of swiftness and Empower and line of warding for area control. Lemme tell you man line of warding is the most damaging skill in this game OP as “kitten” /sarcasm.

Yeah, staff autoattack. Think about that.

LOL I’d rather use an auto-attack that is useful and has better AOE damage like ohhhh hammer…. Think about that. After saying that a guardian doing nothing but AA with staff is going to Outdps a condi necro I am officially done responding to you that has got to be the most ridiculous load of bull I have ever heard ever.

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

Oh yes that soldiers guardian deals so much damage with their extremely obvious animation slow auto attacks and short leaps. That’s soooo much damage man!

He’s doing it with staff. Yes, outdpsing necro with staff. Think about that fact before you post again, avoid making yourself look even sillier.

Staff auto attack? Or maybe dat symbol of swiftness does so much damage? Wow… I don’t even just wow…. Staff auto is good for the wide range but is it gonna out DPS well anything? HA! Just HA!
The orb damage is low as well even when detonated plus the ridiculously long cooldown when detonated. Staff is great for healing, getting some self healing through AH via symbol of swiftness and Empower and line of warding for area control. Lemme tell you man line of warding is the most damaging skill in this game OP as “kitten” /sarcasm.

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

I think you are missing the entire concept of risk v. reward. Even if the numbers are off as you say but others have shown they are spot on, the amount of risk a high direct damage build has to take to get the similar reward of say a high condition damage build is way up there. Where as condition damage builds can sit there and spam AOE condis at range with little to no worry about the risk…

You really want to bring up numbers again? The statement has proved false every time. But yes, I’m pretty sure several classes could swap builds and gear to be tankier without their dps dropping below condis. If you’re doing 50-100% more damage per attack like the scepter vs longbow example, you’ve got quite a lot of wiggle room.

Really bringing up power longbow rangers again…. trolls gonna troll. Unless you mean warrior in which case the longbow is more of a condition weapon but only used in direct damage builds to help build adrenaline faster.

I could use any number of examples. When guardians that aren’t even full dps spec deal more damage, to be blunt, you’re a kittening idiot if you’re still crying about condis outdpsing you.

Oh yes that soldiers guardian deals so much damage with their extremely obvious animation slow auto attacks and short leaps. That’s soooo much damage man! Lets not forget scepter! Dodge by strafing!

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

I think you are missing the entire concept of risk v. reward. Even if the numbers are off as you say but others have shown they are spot on, the amount of risk a high direct damage build has to take to get the similar reward of say a high condition damage build is way up there. Where as condition damage builds can sit there and spam AOE condis at range with little to no worry about the risk…

You really want to bring up numbers again? The statement has proved false every time. But yes, I’m pretty sure several classes could swap builds and gear to be tankier without their dps dropping below condis. If you’re doing 50-100% more damage per attack like the scepter vs longbow example, you’ve got quite a lot of wiggle room.

Really bringing up power longbow rangers again…. trolls gonna troll. Unless you mean warrior in which case the longbow is more of a condition weapon but only used in direct damage builds to help build adrenaline faster.

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

And how useful would this long bow ranger be to a group? You know why there aren’t very many long bow zerker rangers in PvP because they drop… FAST.

Not sure how your post is relevant to my point, which, in case you managed to forget again, is that this statement:

Med.6150:

The general potential damage of a condition applying attack is way higher than that of a single power attack

is untrue.

Besides, maybe they should spec tankier and reduce their damage output to the same level as condi builds if they find they’re dying too fast to be useful as full glass.

Aside from a warrior with a soldiers ammy and unsuspection foe or maybe a valk ammy how much damage do you think these power builds would do if they didn’t go full glass.

I think you are missing the entire concept of risk v. reward. Even if the numbers are off as you say but others have shown they are spot on, the amount of risk a high direct damage build has to take to get the similar reward of say a high condition damage build is way up there. Where as condition damage builds can sit there and spam AOE condis at range with little to no worry about the risk…

Mammoth.1975:

tarcheg.4872:

Which is not true as our numbers have shown. You had an example of doing 4.6k dmg with certain buffs vs the cond example of 8.3k dmg.
We showed you as another example pin down which is a single attack with 1/4 cast time and doing 20k+ dmg.

Your 8.3k was on a light golem. On a light golem power ranger with air rune does the same. Pin down doing 20k isn’t “way higher” than kill shot, it’s on par. And you’ve done nothing to address the “general” part of the statement, where I showed you that condi necros hit for 1109 damage on average with AA, a number that any power build kittens on, including hybrid staff guards. Their biggest hit averages ~3.5k, plus 250 from procs. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing. Everything you have posted has proved the statement under discussion to be untrue.

Lol and killshot is so viable right?

Mammoth.1975:

Sure. 4515+sharpened edges. Sigil of air would be another 1350+. No need for 25 vuln stacks. Or frost spirit. You do it with signets. Hey, you wanted to use 1 in 100 examples

And how useful would this long bow ranger be to a group? You know why there aren’t very many long bow zerker rangers in PvP because they drop… FAST.

So a guildy and I got into a little… discussion yeah lets call it that. About which class provides the best team support in dungeons… He claims Ele, I claim Guardian… My in depth knowledge about guardians isn’t the greatest but I have my build I like it tons of group condi cleanse my hammer still hits like a truck and I take aggro for most bosses in dungeons.

So what are your thoughts? I’m not entirely sure of his build but I do believe its fresh air or 0/0/20/20/30 with scepter dagger.

Chaos.3579:

I am actually disappointed with the mantra of concentration actually. Ya 2 secounds of stability is ok and all…but other class’s can do it much better than us. Longer duration,bigger aoe,other boons and such.

What I think they should do is make the skill break allies out of stuns, launches,cc’s. That way it’s not a stability only support. But a anti stun support.
The stability by itself with that low of a duration is pointless. You are not going to get that on a ally in time to stop a cc. But a ability to break allies close enough to you out of the cc. That’s support.

Would be a unique and interesting support that the Mesmer could have.

This is a change that I could get behind. AOE stunbreaks are extremely extremely rare.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

There’s literally two things mesmers do poorly at, at least as far as dungeons are concerned:

1) AOE DPS
2) Extremely AOE-heavy fights where phantasms are difficult to maintain, i.e. Arah P1 Ooze or Arah P2 Abomination

Outside of that, they are pretty much top or close to top in every other category. Damage, utility, survivability, support, etc.

Damage? Lolol. For AOE damage nothing beats an FGS ele, or warriors (if you are talking relfects you are talking of a much smaller number of boss encounters). Utility YOU MAY have something here with the reflects, thats about it tho. Engis have possibly some of the best utility as long as they aren’t built selfish (ie elixir nades and thats it.) Support? Lol almost every other class has some pretty sweet support. The best a mesmer has is phantasmal defender which is sweet don’t get me wrong, but you don’t have empower (warriors), spotter (rangers), strength in numbers (guards), on top of that you have timewarp which is great but not seen as a necessity in dungeon runs anymore since the nerf. Then warriors have banner buffs which are godly especially if coordinated and you have more than one warrior in the group.

Mesmers have ONE blast finisher on a crap weapon and no firefields for might stacking… You keep forgetting that blasting firefields to stack might is one of the single most important things when coming to a dungeon run because self might stacking through something like IP or what have you is nothing when you can team stack everyone to 25 stacks in about 5s.

I love mesmers the reflects are great, they have some decent self sustain, but outside of time warp and maybe the defender their team support isn’t as hot as you make it and certainly not better than guards, warriors, eles, etc.

Mammoth.1975:

jportell.2197:

Lol really? not even close to true at all. Conditions have always been strong just not quite as strong as power. Now they out shine power in every single way possible.

Once again, math. Half the threads on this forum simply wouldn’t exist if people would bother to learn a little bit about the game before posting.

However math does not=effectiveness genius. Damage=/=performance. Get it?

Dawdler.8521:

I dont really see how a mantra discussion became a Mesmer vs Guardian rant thread. Because that argument is real easy – Guardian is the better bunker, Mesmer is the better damage dealer, end of story. It doesnt matter what kind of hybrids, variants or extreme builds you do. With the changes a mantra Mesmer is pretty much the best group supporting bunker we got but the Guardian is still better at it.

The discussion came about because someone had made the claim that this mantra buff “made guardians obsolete.”