Guild Wars 2

Anet. Its monday

This is a new bug. I made the final ascended back piece on my mesmer even while the beta was still being used. Soulbound items can still show up in the mystic forge. It is like when people get the precursor for their legendary. They are still going to use the precursor if they are getting other things for the legendary. This is something new that needs fixed.

Also shameless bump

Mochann.5298:

By going full zerk I support my party by killing the boss in half the time it would have taken them with their tanks builds to do.

In dungeon runs, the important thing is to finish the dungeon fast, not to give everyone tons of healing.

Going full zerk is great. But it doesn’t mean you don’t bring support skills. Warrior shouts are all offensive (except shake it off) Banners give the same bonuses as signets and if you have long bow it is a fire field for might (AFAIK the meta is axe/mace and GS so you will prolly rarely see hammer.)
A full zerk engi can still bring healing turret, full zerk ranger can have spotter, frost spirit, and healing spring….
Full zerk can still support. Support does mean mad groups heals it means buffing your party in a way that helps them clear the dungeon.

Sigh… Just when I thought it was time to pick up my mesmer soon. :/ kitten anet.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Account.9832:

Paciunek.2496:

Everyone can heal themselves

TBH, part of the “selfishness” is Arena Net’s fault for not having a more detailed combat log. If players could see how much of their damage and healing comes from other players, they’d have a bit more of a clue about why teamwork pays off.

Pretty sure it comes from the pug mentality of “well I suck, so probably the rest of this group will suck too, so every man for himself!”

Which is the worst mentality to have in dungeons… earlier did fractals 36 with a 3 signet and two stance warrior… :/ We all did fine.. But I just kept thinking “That signet of might/precision would be better if there was a banner of discipline/strength out…”

Tomekrusz.7901:

Idk, but they have to reapir it fast..

In a game where all end game content is cosmetic you can’t mess up a cosmetic recipe…

that is almost like saying all legendaries now look like pearl weapons…

I know that analogy is extreme… But it is kind of the truth.

Kind of? It is a huge slap in the face… And still no dev response how does this get effd up?

Also if u are trying to upgrade your back piece it doesn’t work

Curo.2483:

I think you need to soulbind it before you can forge it. Although with the amount of people posting here, this may be some new bug.

It is soul bound I had it equipped then unequipped it to forge it and it wasn’t in the effing forge window

Also made a thread in game bugs forum. Anet is more likely to acknowledge there.

Bump bump. Need anet to acknowledge this come Monday

ANET Y U NO HAVE QA? Seriously Fix this I ground out 500 relics only to get to the forge and not have my Beta Fractal capacitor show up on the forge UI for being put in the forge. This is garbage.

So i grinded out 500 more relics after this update. And now I can’t fully upgrade my backpiece to shiny and all that. What the hell gives here ANET? You can’t even put WP in the thaumanova reactor now add to it you also can’t upgrade backpieces.

Why even have a gift of ascencion if we can’t freaking use it. QA at its finest…

As a team fight bunker guardian is AMAZING. Especially with AH… However if a guardian wants to get nice healing they sacrifice EVERYTHING else.

If a warrior wants nice healing they slot a passive healing skill and go 15 points for adrenal health.

1. slot and 15 points compared to guards F2, #6 and at least 30 points…

See the difference?

Account.9832:

Paciunek.2496:

Everyone can heal themselves

Ultimately, most dungeons can be soloed. What’s your point?

Five players casting group heals do more healing than five players casting solo heals.

TBH, part of the “selfishness” is Arena Net’s fault for not having a more detailed combat log. If players could see how much of their damage and healing comes from other players, they’d have a bit more of a clue about why teamwork pays off.

Or just noticing “Hey i have might fury and swiftness… but I didn’t put it there… THATS F*$#KIN TEAM WORK!” (tenacious D reference.)

Noticing your health going up and you did not do it. Things like that is how you know that team work is great.

Or seeing a massive increase in damage because you have a warrior running banners, a ranger running spotter, and everyone is blasting a fire field for massive might stacks.

Anet is not at fault completely for the selfishness their combat system actually supports team work. People just don’t like capitalizing on it.

AKGeo.6048:

jportell.2197:

So I run dungeons pretty much nightly and do almost all of them. And builds that just seem to peeve me beyond belief are the following

1. Full signet anything but thief (i can live with that as long as they have shadow refuge signet thief helps the deeps.)
2. Warriors that run signets which give buffs only to themselves (might/fury) when they could run the banners and have it be party wide.
3. Rangers/engis that refuse to run the party heals which provide water fields.
4. Meditation guards (shouts/consecrations are always better for parties).
5. Mesmers that have absolutely no clue where the iDisenchanter is on their bar (HP is much better now).

So I am just curious how many people here run “selfish” builds in dungeons meaning builds that do absolutely nothing for your party. If so why do you do that? It does nothing for your party and if anything brings them down some…. There are great weapons/traits/skills that all classes have which are great for the party… So why the full signet builds, why the very begrudgement when someone asks you to run a banner instead of the signet? I guess I just don’t get it. I understand the play how you want mantra but in something like a dungeon shouldn’t the goal be to play as a team?

Some might say that you’re being selfish by demanding other players bring skills that benefit you.

All classes are stand-alone as long as they aren’t the only ones facing the mobs in dungeons. Each class has its own evasion, condi removal, CC and damage skills and traits. Sure, party synergy helps, but isn’t required.

Classes can be stand alone but this game highly favors team play hence the combo fields and traits that provide buffs and abilities to share your boons with your party….
1 Team with traits and buffs that support their entire parties DPS and somewhat there survive will always out perform 5-stand alone individuals.

JMar.3254:

sorudo.9054:

necro here, i always play with a support build, i need to in order to make my build work on the most effective way.
i wish ppl stop underestimating my build, i can do more on my own then most can do in a group of 3.

Yeah!

My cleric bear bow can take lupi better than those 5 dps zerkers. I is underestimate too much.

Support Doesn’t = Cleric….

knives.6345:

I run Hammer/Staff 0/0/30/20/20 AH on my Guard, guess I’ll never see 90% of people posting in this thread in-game. lol

No one has ever kicked me so far.

I used to run that exact build. And I’ll be honest I feel much more useful in a DPS 0/25/0/20/25 build. You have a much higher crit chance in a DPS build which means much more dodging and honestly more survivability. I can understand running full soldiers/clerics especially in a dungeon you don’t know (I still have yet to master arah.)

But in other dungeons it is generally best to just run a DPS build.

ItWasntMe.7102:

Seveleniumus.5973:

So you don’t want to dps and you don’t want to buff, and you don’t want to take advantage of buffs of others, and you don’t want to help res others, and you don’t want others to help res you, and… why should anyone take you into their group again, because you basically admit that your build is useless for everyone but other rangers? Why don’t you just create “rangers only” group and enjoy your awesome ranged buffs.

No. I don’t want to hear B.S. about rangers & other medium armor classes to be at fault when players that live in a fantasy world want a scapegoat to hide behind the fact, that although the math is there for certain “elite squads to accomplish” efficiency the MAJORITY of those here complaining about “support classes” failing to give them what they want, in reality is they themselves are not actually contributing the same numbers in the equation as true elite glass cannon built party players do. Even the BEST squad of solid players will not make it to max potential efficiency every run or even close. So their whole blame game is as ridiculous as some of the things mentioned in my replies to others. It’s all magique on papier, but let’s be real about the usual applications of ALL people in the party. I can do everything absolutely perfect as support, it doesn’t mean every “dps” wannabe will know how to use it. They can do everything perfect, it doesn’t mean the other dps or gaurdians are going to be as solid, therefore their argument is B.S. witch hunting.

I love the other medium armor classes Engi’s can stack might like a baws, with their blasts. Thieves have a spammable blast, shadow refuge (great for skipping!) as well as pistol whip which is amazing DPS.

I love rangers which have spotter x/w and greatsword with healing spring. The amount that a “GOOD” ranger (one who knows how to leap and blast) can heal with healing spring is quite amazing.

Please do everyone you run with a favor and stop ranging. Your survivability will actually improve believe it or not.

ItWasntMe.7102:

I am a ranger NOT a cleric for those dps baddies that wear attack food/mf food over other more useful options. Like you stated it is a GRP effort. Me rolling in from ranged to drop my heals for others leaving myself with ZERO heal as I roll back to my game range (then being looked upon as weak when my hp drops & I am downed & DPS is lost as they run to rez me instead of letting my pet do it lol)~ send pets in & use spirits when needed for the team while I go max range to get best out of my dps values giving up all my slots for others is not ranger at all. It would be different if the content supported rangers as they should be, but the truth is MANY DPS have the elite attitude that they should be catered to & that because the game content allows for melee to be so greedy & selfish that it is the rangers job to take it up the butt & be at their beck & call. How is that fair to expect 100% of the time? Is that “team work?” O.o but it may take 5 extra minutes to kill the boss if we actually allow rangers to play RANGED from time to time LMAO~ yah the selfish players you refer to are those demanding everyone build/play the dungeons to support those who do not want to be responsible in keeping themselves alive, nor do they want to meet rangers or others half way by utilising both an attk/def food. No no~ their mf & desires are more important ^^ I don’t get to use mf food most of the time, I don’t benefit from banners or guards buffs when I am ranged & if I am melee 100% of the time then I am not a ranger at all. Your expectations are bit lopsided ^^ How about everyone go ranged & share their goodies with the rangers? AHAHHAHAHHAHH You want the dungeon runs fast, which is fine, but some of us are here to play the toons we chose, yet no matter how much we rangers sacrifice using junk spirits that do nothing for us & keeping certain pets passive so they can run in & survive drop regen or w.e for squad, we still get judged & told how are dps sucks donkey balls & you all carry us. Well our best DPS & evasion is max range. If I want a melee toon 100% of the time I would have a warrior. Rangers support parties in many ways at a great loss to their own play styles & dps, yet it is NEVER appreciated because it isn’t measure in DPS directly contributed.

^ Here is the reason I made the thread folks!
1. Range Dps is never greater than Melee DPS. On almost every class (except ele which technically has no melee.) Greatsword damage can be amazing!

2. As much as I hate to say it (I honestly felt useful) Cleric’s gear is really not useful at all in dungeons.

3. People don’t expect you to drop healing spring and then roll back to being ranged. They don’t expect you to be ranged at all.

4. When you drop Healing spring instead of rolling back have x/warhorn ready and blast that water field allowing yourself and everyone else in your party to have a good heal (btw guards can blast healing spring at least twice before it disappears that is ALOT of group healing. You should stick around for that.)

5. Attack/MF food is not bad at all because usually MF food has something sweet like boon duration (guards anyone?) which is one of the reasons people bring guards.

6. Rangers have great things like spotter if you are at 1500 range a trait like spotter (which you prolly don’t have.) won’t affect your group so once again you are not helping your DPS at all because you are out of range of everyone else’s buff and they aren’t in range of yours. Having said that your DPS will suffer much much more than theirs.

7. You have multiple ways to access vigor as a ranger (some classes get one or none aint you special?!) meaning that staying and dodging in melee range should be no problem for you.

8. If you are in my party and you go down while being far away I will not go back to res you. One of the reasons people stack in melee range is that people can almost insta res any party member as soon as they are down running back to res someone will lower DPS much much more than just ressing you right in melee range.

So please don’t tell us that everyone else is bad because you want to sit back and range with your Pew pew when you would be doing much better to be next to your party with everyone else.

Pew pew long bow rangers (knockback is nice) are one of the main reasons i made this thread. You guys have great traits and combo fields with blast finishers that you just refuse to use. You have the options there but you refuse to capitalize on them thanks for showing my point.

Arkimedes.8730:

Sword clone is better than iDisenchanter.

Sword clone rips boons, and does it faster than iDisenchanter. With sharper images, it does more damage than iDisenchanter. It also applies vulnerability. It can be summoned faster as well.

But there are also mesmers that never run sword ever… ever.

voidwater.2064:

jportell.2197:

any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

If they’re doing damage, they’re still doing something useful for the party, even if that’s all they do.

If you want to be more optimal than that, fine, but your builds are not optimal so your criticism seems somewhat hypocritical.

0/25/0/20/25 is not optimal? It brings all the support (Virtue of justice activation spam is enough for this when clearing trash), amazing dps plus nice damage modifiers. And these builds still did no dps because they spent more time on the floor than they did doing damage. And if they are doing damage yayy cleric (insert class here) still does damage. So that argument is kind of moot. It’s builds that can do great damage but don’t do anything for party damage. Or builds that do nothing for their own damage or party damage. Huge difference and I can’t count the number of times that someone is “doing damage” such as an LB ranger in melee range (same with GS mesmer) or the 4 signet staff ele.

If you do anything ANYTHING at all to help your party and still survive you are great in my book but there are far too many just weird builds doing nothing for the group and actually hold it back by dying way to much and not doing anything support wise either.

Nokaru.7831:

jportell.2197:

Its not that zerk=selfish its that when people play this zerk builds they don’t think to bring utilities and traits that buff their party.

Like Altruistic Healing?

That trait is the epitome of a selfish Guardian; sorry.

Eh ur right hence why I switched it after this thread (0/25/0/20/25). Still yet the AH build brought way more to a party with the points in healing and virtues than a 5signet warrior did or any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

deSade.9437:

Why, WHY do people assume support team=cleric? This is getting on my nerves. Care to explain?!?
E: what the hell, I read things like “selfish dps builds” and “play how I want support builds”; since when is playing berserker a synonym of selfish?

Its not that zerk=selfish its that when people play this zerk builds they don’t think to bring utilities and traits that buff their party.

voidwater.2064:

Sure, but you don’t argue from the strongest position, since your guard build is pretty terrible, so show some humility.

My guard build is still more group friendly than several others like full zerk med builds I still cringe everytime I see a guardian using nothing but meds on dungeons.

deSade.9437:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Enaretos.8079:

Meh, I also want to run with you good dungeon runners. Do I really have to post something against selfish builds in order to do so ?

I’m terrified of running with them. I don’t want them to know how bad I am.

However, on this thread, if everyone plays selfish builds, isn’t it true that the party should be fine? Everyone takes care of themself, everyone wins?

Hell NO! This is the freaking worst thing you could ever do!
Being focused on yourself and not being a teamplayer, this is what f—ks you up the most. This stupid game, unfortunately, is so easy that many self-centered idiots can get away with being selfish – not ressing and not bringing any support to the team; since there’s no true hardcore content other than high lvl fractals, you’re allowed to play randomly with no field awareness and not caring about anyone but yourself even in 48+… Meh. Problem is, they make any run a pain.
The party won’t be fine if you take care of yourself only, especially in pugs. They’re too fragile: if you go down, everyone risks a wipe. Can you imagine pugs 4 or 3-manning? Seven hells.

This has kind of been my point….

Ropechef.6192:

As a Sword and focus guard and the one getting picked up off the floor…

it has nothing to do with you. and its all MY ability to use my class and dodge.

Worked a Lupi melee the other night with SkyChef, time after time, we got it a little bit farther. never made it though.
Couple days later. Ran it again Had Skychef and a DnT crew member, took us a bunch of tries but we did it.
ran it tonight. got it on our third try. and my personal second successful Lupi melee attempt.

When you are complaining about the sword focus gaurds that are always on their back. or ANY player that is always on their back. perhaps its just them learning.

So while you are complaining here for us being selfish, I am going to head back to Arah and learn how to hit harder than you and stay alive longer.

Which is fine go run dungeons and learn how to get better with a full zerk melee build (at least you have that down!). My gripe is the full zerk selfish builds that consistently go down and do absolutely nothing for the group.

The guys that didn’t actually learn how to stay alive longer.

Yenn.9185:

jportell.2197:

clint.5681:

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

Because the guys running builds like this with their S/F and GS are usually the ones I wind up picking up off the floor over, and over, and over, and over. Hence the reason for me making this thread. They can’t provide their reflects, blinds, aegis, etc if they are always on the floor.

You were running with bad, really bad, pugs. I cannot possibly think of any other reasons why.

And there are more of these bad really bad pugs out there than there are of all these awesome players filling up this thread. This thread would not be made if my experiences were everyone just doing super awesome no matter what build they run. Most 5 signet warriors are usually greatsword/rifle warriors that almost always refuse to run banners even when they are running signets like fury and might or. Or when a guardian that refuses to run WOR even on fights that it is great for or is running 4 signets (seen this one MULTIPLE times). Thieves that never have short bow for the blast (or worse yet P/d non-venomshare thieves.) Eles that are running staff with 4 signets and absolutely no conjure weapons at all (even when the fight will greatly benefit it.) FGS should be a staple in dungeon runs for eles even completely untraited.

This thread was made after a slew of experiences with pugs that do garbage DPS but still bring nothing for support or pugs that do great DPS but spend the entire fight completely dead because they were downed so much that eventually as soon as they went down again they were completely dead.

You can’t DPS if you are dead.

clint.5681:

Ahh this thread is a classic know it all pug thread. Since you refuse to listen to those that know more than you, why are you still here?

Because the guys running builds like this with their S/F and GS are usually the ones I wind up picking up off the floor over, and over, and over, and over. Hence the reason for me making this thread. They can’t provide their reflects, blinds, aegis, etc if they are always on the floor.

Hammer has been verified many many times as the best DPS guardian weapon from other people than just me. It’s almost all over the guardian forums as soon as someone says “hammer is bad it attacks way to slow” everyone and their mom comes out calling it the best DPS a guardian can achieve.

Bread.7516:

jportell.2197:

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in. In some instances they go “down” so much that they are eventually just dead and you can’t DPS when you are straight dead. ………………………. There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

sad to say you play with very terrible players.

People bring guardian for unique utilities while bringing high dps; aegis, reflects and group stability (sometimes..lupi phase 2 transition?) off the top of my head while having kitten high dps.

I find most people here in the dungeon forum strive to be better players, aim for the best, and do not sit in a “because i’m comfortable with the padding build”.

DPS is a plus. If it is 4 zerk warriors and one guardian they didn’t bring him for dps they brought him for reflects condi clear and stability almost no groups I have been in have claimed I was bad because I was the one doing all the support. And I don’t do that build for my survive the high toughness=high aggro draw which in several boss fights (Andal the Thug for those that actually run other dungeons besides the speed clear). A high toughness guard keeps the entire group alive because of toughness Andal aggros on absoutely noone else in that fight, just the char with the highest toughness.

DigitalKirin.9714:

jportell.2197:

And before you get all baddie is bad. I don’t use one handed weapons at all (aside from scepter in necessary fights like the golems in SE) so radiance doesn’t seem very necessary (powerful blades right handed strength etc.)

I agree that you should review colesy’s post and respond to it in point-by-point style. He was very calm and thorough.

I can’t think of which golem fight in SE you’re talking about that you need scepter. Which path?

jportell.2197:

So please tell me what should I run in dungeons give me your amazing build. I can however say that damage modifiers from zeal and radiance are really not all that great I noticed almost no difference in the numbers with and without them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds
While it doesn’t have a direct link, this would be a good jumping point to explore the various dungeon builds that the dungeon subforum regulars have put together. Choose one and I’m sure someone could supply you a gw2skills.net link.

You should consider the sword/focus. It really is pretty fantastic. I used to use hammer, as I loved the protection it gave, but going to sword/focus really does help kill things faster. Best of luck!

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in. In some instances they go “down” so much that they are eventually just dead and you can’t DPS when you are straight dead. Focus brings Regen to the group which while great can be achieved with something like HTL. Focus also brings a blast finisher which is on a kitten CD untraited that is 9 times longer than the CD for the hammer blast finisher. Tell me why its so much better? OH 3 blocks every 45 seconds…. right… that’s great for self sustain but does nothing compared to hammer symbol. Sword/focus also brings absolutely no CC as in no obstructions (grawl fractal) immobilize (scepter/focus+hammer can help immensely on the dredge boss fractal)
I hate to say it actually no I don’ but people don’t bring guards to dungeon for their DPS. While guards DPS can be impressive if all you care about is maximizing your DPS then run nothing but 5 zerk warriors. There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

BalkanLion.6045:

I love your guardian hammer build. Nothing like dispersing the enemies around you while people are trying to drop an aoe on them.

I actually only use banish on bosses that need to be launched in the beginning of a fight (Alpha, slave driver etc.) beyond that I use AA and MB most. Zealots embrace when needed like in the grawl fractal.

colesy.8490:

jportell.2197:

Kirschwasser.3972:

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

After being “flamed” no other way to put it in this thread I tried some variations. Well I just wasn’t very impressed. I tried 25 into radiance and the damage bonus wasn’t that great then I went into zeal mainly for the minor traits and the damage was very lackluster and only marginally better than my normal build with group survivability taking a huge hit (talking from 48 fractals.). After going back to the regular build some different things happened one my group could handle all bosses easily because I was the ONLY one taking aggro which was the point, my damage was still pretty good without modifiers and my survivability as well as my groups was great. So… You guys can flame my “terrible” build all you want but it is greatly requested in dungeons by my entire guild.

Flamed? I’m still waiting for a response to my post at you from earlier which you keep avoiding. Can you give us examples of fights where your build is supposedly good? And could you tell us what makes it good? Because my impression is that you’re partying with bads and they can’t dodge so they have to get a guardian to trait in useless traits to make up for their own incompetence. I’m trying to be reasonable with you and I want you to explain yourself but you’re purposely ignoring my posts because they’re pointing out the flaws in yours without flaming you so there’s no emotionally charged area of my posts you can target and then dismiss the rest so it looks like you actually responded.

Not flaming from you. I just don’t find going into zeal or radiance all that useful. Going into valor is nice because of strength in number, purity (sig of restoration discourages healing IMO). AH isn’t necessary so I can swap the last 10 points between the bottom two lines depending on the dungeon and the party make-up.

And before you get all baddie is bad. I don’t use one handed weapons at all (aside from scepter in necessary fights like the golems in SE) so radiance doesn’t seem very necessary (powerful blades right handed strength etc.) And before people start saying “Your deeps blow” usually I get like 2 or 3 pugs that do absolutely nothing but range and my melee deeps will usually out perform any one’s ranged DPS. So please tell me what should I run in dungeons give me your amazing build. I can however say that damage modifiers from zeal and radiance are really not all that great I noticed almost no difference in the numbers with and without them.

voidwater.2064:

I’d rather take a full signet zerk warrior than your weak guardian in a dungeon run. Your damage sucks, and your support is unnecessary when everyone can dodge.

I could argue that it’s selfish for you to run an inefficient feel-good support build that hits like paper, slowing the group down and wasting their valuable time.

The goal is to finish content quickly and get your rewards, not to do support/team stuff for the sake of doing support/team stuff.

Except the chances of all pugs being able to dodge is extremely low. And hitting like paper is rather far from the truth. Pugs usually have no clue how to dodge and I have even had a 5 signet “zerk uber leet warr” get mad at me in COF p1 on my mesmer for not removing the burning from the from him even though I’m a mesmer and our condi clear is pretty crappy compared to a warriors not to mention the attack that causes burning from the effigy is the most obvious animation you can see on any boss.

Yes it would be nice if everyone could run max dps and just be as amazing as you however that is rarely the case and usually most dungeon groups that aren’t “COF SPEED RUN LINK GEAR OR KICKED” require at least one tank. And this isn’t about just support only no deeps builds. Its about builds that have options to easily up group damage (BANNERS!) or increase group survive (Healing turret/spring, empower guard hammer) without really sacrificing anything and still refuse to do it.

laharl.8435:

jportell.2197:

Syn Sity.5826:

According to someone I ran arah path 1 with, buffing your party with 12 might every 20 seconds is better than actually dealing damage yourself. He said he likes to play efficiently and called me annoying.

Empower swap to hammer or GS. Do damage for 20s. Swam to staff Empower switch back to main do damage, swap etc etc.

How hard is that? lol

Because you’re stuck on useless staff in battle for 10 seconds. It’s much more efficient to use blast finishers for might. Much longer duration and you don’t have to sit on a useless weapon.

Which I try to do so I don’t always have to swap to staff. However there are several times when there is only one firefield for your entire group which is usually brought by the guardian (if they are focusing on blasts.) Some eles are completely oblivious to how a blast finisher works or they sit super far away from the boss and pew pew with the staff giving you absolutely no firefields to work with besides your own.

Then we also have the annoying thing of having multiple fields down. This is why staff is still good. And if you take empowering might sure that is great too!

Kirschwasser.3972:

I like how jportell has been demonstrably shown that he’s wrong but he’s stuck his fingers in his ears and went “LALALALA” to pretend it doesn’t exist.

After being “flamed” no other way to put it in this thread I tried some variations. Well I just wasn’t very impressed. I tried 25 into radiance and the damage bonus wasn’t that great then I went into zeal mainly for the minor traits and the damage was very lackluster and only marginally better than my normal build with group survivability taking a huge hit (talking from 48 fractals.). After going back to the regular build some different things happened one my group could handle all bosses easily because I was the ONLY one taking aggro which was the point, my damage was still pretty good without modifiers and my survivability as well as my groups was great. So… You guys can flame my “terrible” build all you want but it is greatly requested in dungeons by my entire guild.

haviz.1340:

jportell.2197:

Which is fine in single multiple warrior groups. If i am in a group with 3 warriors (actually fairly rare.) Then IDGAF if one of them is 5 signets. As long as there is a banner of strength and discipline out we good. However when you start getting into groups that have say one engi, one guard, one mes, one ranger, one warrior. Then you hope that each one of them brings something to the table besides their L33T deeps. You hope the guardian can pump out protection and group heals with the staff and stability , you hope your ranger maybe just maybe will have spotter plus healing spring, you hope the engi is packing tons of blasts plus healing turret, you hope your mesmer has focus (maybe mantra heals since best mesmer DPS is also in the same line.), and you hope your warrior has banner of strength/discipline or at least one of the two. And if everyone is running something that only maximizes one thing on themselves (DPS or survive.) That’s great but it only helps themselves. Usually groups where EVERYONE is bringing some form of group buff do much much much better over when everyone is worried about self buffing.

It’s about maximizing group efficacy, and each class can bring something to do that. But when you pug and absolutely noone has anything that helps the groups damage or survive its just kind of a pain.

I wouldn’t hope for that.

Empower? Its a nice might stacking and a good heal even with no healing power. Staff should be a staple for guardians in dungeons.

Syn Sity.5826:

According to someone I ran arah path 1 with, buffing your party with 12 might every 20 seconds is better than actually dealing damage yourself. He said he likes to play efficiently and called me annoying.

Empower swap to hammer or GS. Do damage for 20s. Swam to staff Empower switch back to main do damage, swap etc etc.

How hard is that? lol

Stooperdale.3560:

One possible answer is that a group of players can easily have surplus support. If they can kill quickly then do they really need every warrior to have a revive banner slotted? This is particularly true for guardian/warrior groups where a guardian can sustain the rest of the group while the warriors all deliver damage.

Another answer is that players often take self contained builds into dungeons. They could rely on other classes for boons but if someone delivers extra damage under fury, say, that person will use skills that provide fury in their own build. This sort of selfishness is sensible.

Which is fine in single multiple warrior groups. If i am in a group with 3 warriors (actually fairly rare.) Then IDGAF if one of them is 5 signets. As long as there is a banner of strength and discipline out we good. However when you start getting into groups that have say one engi, one guard, one mes, one ranger, one warrior. Then you hope that each one of them brings something to the table besides their L33T deeps. You hope the guardian can pump out protection and group heals with the staff and stability , you hope your ranger maybe just maybe will have spotter plus healing spring, you hope the engi is packing tons of blasts plus healing turret, you hope your mesmer has focus (maybe mantra heals since best mesmer DPS is also in the same line.), and you hope your warrior has banner of strength/discipline or at least one of the two. And if everyone is running something that only maximizes one thing on themselves (DPS or survive.) That’s great but it only helps themselves. Usually groups where EVERYONE is bringing some form of group buff do much much much better over when everyone is worried about self buffing.

It’s about maximizing group efficacy, and each class can bring something to do that. But when you pug and absolutely noone has anything that helps the groups damage or survive its just kind of a pain.

spoj.9672:

Please enlighten me on how AH isnt selfish. What does it do to help your teammates?

AH encourages you to throw out as many group boons as possible,
Group boons=team support. Just because you get a bonus from it doesn’t mean its selfish. Also the DPS from running 25 into zeal compared to 30 in Valor is not a huge difference. And it makes all the difference in the world based off aggro mechanics and group support. (lookin atchu strenght in numbers.)

spoj.9672:

You use both on the golem. Use nullfield while using timewarp.

Both is better than one or the other however. In this situation if the mesmer only slots one of them disenchanter>null field.

Zenith.7301:

Disenchanter is really bad. Null Field is so much better.

For the specific boss fight in COE which is the sentry golem, iDisenchanter is better. It has a fast attack rate, good HP and a much shorter CD than nullfield.

Don’t sell spots… Simple.

Nosoyelarty.7268:

I am not sure about the hammer cleave but with axe warrior i can position myself between the turret and the golem (without target) to hit both at the same time, it usually takes 2 AA chains to destroy it. With your build it will take you like 3 minutes tho, and having another player knowing this to help you in a pug is harder than finding a mesmer to support you with his disenchanter. I think you can use shield of the avenger to help a bit more in this fight too but i am not sure.

In that fight I use SOA and WOR. Also my hammer AA can destroy it in about two chains as well…. And is it really also so hard to find a mesmer with MH sword? I mean seriously lol.

DivineSlayer.5039:

jportell.2197:

spoj.9672:

Ye knights gear and 0/0/30/20/20 is bad.

Still out performs every other build like the full zerk meditation guards that drop consistently and I know what is coming “THEY still out DPS you when dead.” uh yah they don’t my hammer crits for a consistent 4-5k with auto (hammer guard is best DPS for guardian if you disagree you wrong.) The 30 into valor allows strength in numbers (which means alot for certain other classes) plus retributive armor and purity. If i really feel the need to I can swap to AH but rarely do.
The knights stats are to draw aggro so the others that are full glass can just dance around the boss. And that stat works on several bosses who’s main way of aggroing is based on toughness and my dps doesn’t suffer at all.

And I dont care if everyone and their mom says “your build is bad don’t take that l2p noob” if you offer something to the group be it a trait that gives a stat bonus (empower allies, spotter, strength in numbers), Fields and blasts (fire/water) , Reflects/missile absorption, boon support, condi clear, or group heals you are great with me.

The builds I am having issues with are the ones that do absolutely jack diddly squat for the group. Every single class in this game brings something for support. I am not asking for everyone to be a hard core dungeon “l33t” build. Because then everyone would do four warriors and a mes/guard. I’m asking classes to realize that even if they don’t have the greatest group support they can still bring something besides their auto attack to parties.

Lol gg. This is a perfect example of a terrible player.

And does your warrior run 5 signets full zerk? What about your ele do you actually use it to stack might for your party or do you just fall over dead always? Are you a mesmer that DOESN’T run focus? If so perfect example of a bad player GG. I understand that full zerk is the “way to go” for most classes but In my experiences and the group I run with consistently that is able to farm COE, CM, Arah etc. With no problems.

Selfish builds that bring nothing to groups are perfect examples of bad players GG lol.

Jae.5138:

i dont have complaints about bunker guardian. at least they can’t kill you. the reason why bunker engi is op is that they put out so much condition + cc that you’re forced to play defensive when you’re the one trying to get them out of their point. no bunker should be able to dish out that much damage

Lol then warriors should be the ones getting the complaints.

spoj.9672:

Ye knights gear and 0/0/30/20/20 is bad.

Still out performs every other build like the full zerk meditation guards that drop consistently and I know what is coming “THEY still out DPS you when dead.” uh yah they don’t my hammer crits for a consistent 4-5k with auto (hammer guard is best DPS for guardian if you disagree you wrong.) The 30 into valor allows strength in numbers (which means alot for certain other classes) plus retributive armor and purity. If i really feel the need to I can swap to AH but rarely do.
The knights stats are to draw aggro so the others that are full glass can just dance around the boss. And that stat works on several bosses who’s main way of aggroing is based on toughness and my dps doesn’t suffer at all.

And I dont care if everyone and their mom says “your build is bad don’t take that l2p noob” if you offer something to the group be it a trait that gives a stat bonus (empower allies, spotter, strength in numbers), Fields and blasts (fire/water) , Reflects/missile absorption, boon support, condi clear, or group heals you are great with me.

The builds I am having issues with are the ones that do absolutely jack diddly squat for the group. Every single class in this game brings something for support. I am not asking for everyone to be a hard core dungeon “l33t” build. Because then everyone would do four warriors and a mes/guard. I’m asking classes to realize that even if they don’t have the greatest group support they can still bring something besides their auto attack to parties.

Unique.9351:

jportell.2197:

Failth.2935:

That’s just ridiculous….

What level exotics are you using? Just wondering if that matters….
So far over 550g lost on lvl 76 exotics myself and this thread just makes me sad
And jelly….. so jelly

550g? Just buy the fricking pre that’s what I did I hate the toilet and only ever use it to get things that have set recipes in the forge. Screw RNG

You think 550g it bad? i spend over 700g on my items and nothing, I’ve gotten nothing. This guy is ridiculously lucky.

Which is why you just don’t risk it. Grind the gold save it up don’t waste it on useless exotics. 700g is ridiculous I would have stopped… wait i wouldn’t have done it at all. You actually save money just doing it that way. Now some people are great with the MF or some people get really random awesome drops. This will usually happen whether or not you are trying to get the precursor.

DivineSlayer.5039:

jportell.2197:

DivineSlayer.5039:

If you need heals from other party members you should learn to dodge.

It’s not that I need heals. I run a knights/zerker hammer staff guard with good group healing and perma AOE protection with the hammer symbol.

What is nice though is seeing a ranger or engi have a waterfield that I can blast for nice AOE group heals. If it’s the ranger I can blast it twice before it disappears. That is a very nice situation to have you see.

lol you need to get a good build as well.

Knights/zerk combo with ruby orbs on the armor is bad? Guaranteed 100% crit damage is bad? AOE protection from hammer is bad? Staff support is bad? Shouts and consecrations are bad? Actively swapping skills and weapons depending on the fight unlike half the pugs I group with is bad? Wow I must be terrible.
I bring no DPS, no support, no group condi clear, no boons (HA!), and no reflects… (sarcasm).

Yeah I’m so bad with my consistent crits granting might to allies permanently…. Anytime I build for dungeons I think (What does the group need?)
And if people give me suggestions on my build when they ask what I run (which btw is 0/0/30/20/20) I take them into consideration and ask what they do for the group. The only concession I make is every now and then switching to 10 points around depending on which dungeon but that build gives good group support as well as good damage…

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Yeah I’d like my ecto back as well, infused 4 back pieces -.-

You guys realize they are just ADDING an infusion slot… Your AR will still be the same and you will not lose anything as far as the upgrades go.