Guild Wars 2

Rednik.3809:

jportell.2197:

Does everyone that has argued against you need to post links to several of your forum posts that are completely biased and bigoted while only based off playing casual sPvP hot join only 20 solo ques and no team ques?

I remember when the devs used to have SOTG discussions with high end players from both EU and NA. These players provided constructive criticism on proposed changes even if the change buffed their own class.

You do no such thing.
I have played several tPvP games across all classes and right now I can honestly say that a warrior can do the job to fit every role with in tPvP better than those classes which were originally supposed to supposedly fit certain roles.

This game doesn’t have the holy trinity like other games. However it still has roles.
At the most basic level the roles are:
-You have your home point capper
-Mid point bunker
-Roamer
-Far Point assaulter

No class can successfully fill all these roles except one. Warrior.

Mesmer used to be able to fill the role of home point capper… Then the condi meta hit and pushed mesmers out.

Eles used to be able to be the far point assulters… RTL and cantrip nerf stopped that (and yet warriors are still griping that they need their movement to get around)

Thieves were once the gods of roaming as they should be…. Not anymore… A single hambow warrior will keep the thief from doing anything… Yet the thief requires two or three burst combos to kill a warrior wearing the same amulet…

Guardians used to be great home point and mid bunkers. But a warrior can fulfill the role so much better because guess what… a bunker warrior can OUTHEAL a bunker guardian…. With much less effort.

Should every class be able to fill more than one role with in the tournament environment? Yes.

Should one class fill all roles with little to no effort… Not one bit.

How much exactly your “several tPvP games” was? Because this post is pure brilliant.

1600 team que games from january of last year, and about 500 soloque games since the introduction. I play soloque across several classes because I am going for the champ titles in all 8 classes. Currently I have champ illusionist, genius, and paragon titles.
And lets just say the amount of work that I have to put in on my elementalist and thief (as well as the other classes when I still feel like playing them) compared to the amount of work that i have to put in to be successful on my warrior is atrocious.

There is a huge gap in the amount skill (effort/work/keyboard concerto whatever) required to play any other class effectively to fulfill its role against a warrior compared to the amount of skill that a warrior has to put in to succeed against any other class to fulfill the same role.

A good way to measure balance in a game can be looking at the games leaderboards and pick apart the representation of the classes. Ideally there should be no gross over/underrepresentation of any one class. If there is that is a sign of imbalance one way or the other. That doesn’t mean that all classes should be represented equally. However right now I think there are 2 eles in the top 100 of the leader board and a handful of mesmers……. That is a gross underrepresentation.

Also ANET could take a look at the metrics of team tournament teams and see which classes are grossly over represented or underrepresented in the meta across all game modes… I think in that case they will see that warriors are very prominent in every game mode. This is a sign of unfavorable imbalance.

I Am Dansker.7105:

I say we up the cooldown of leap by 25%, add a 100% increase in cooldown if the warrior doesn’t hit a target with leap & reduce the leap distance by 20%
All in one patch

Sound familiar?

Nope not one bit. Anet would never nerf anything that bad. Wait…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

coglin.1867:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you do not ask for that to be changed for your own selfish desires.

Considering your post history, this sure is hypocritical. You have post demanding changes to sigils, runes and warriors. In the past 7 days you posted on two other professions threads, discussing negative changes to those professions. You have an extensive history demanding WvW and PvP changes, as well as crying for changes to the warrior. It seems your okay demanding positive changes that benefit you personally, but when someone asked for an adjustment when something is clearly out of balance in a manner that does not favor you, all of the sudden it’s

“when you play a game, you follow the rules.
you do not ask to change the rules because you do not like the rules.
rules are meant to be followed, not twisted to your own whim.”

If you care to refute this, I would happily offer multiple links in which you are demanding changing on a whim as you put it.

My point is, if you have a reason imbalances shouldn’t change, please offer it. If you have a logical reason why warriors should not follow the balancing philosophies they posted on the profession, when you were okay with all of the other professions nerfs based on these philosophies, I would love to hear it. Otherwise please stop trolling by posting every few minute regurgitating the same comments.

does not matter, because warriors are balanced. it is not my fault when other people could not see this.

“You have post demanding changes to sigils, runes and warriors. "
really? i have a bad memory, would you kindly please remind me when i made such demands? thank you.

“have an extensive history demanding WvW and PvP changes”
do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

“crying for changes to the warrior”
evidence, please?

thank you.

Does everyone that has argued against you need to post links to several of your forum posts that are completely biased and bigoted while only based off playing casual sPvP hot join only 20 solo ques and no team ques?

I remember when the devs used to have SOTG discussions with high end players from both EU and NA. These players provided constructive criticism on proposed changes even if the change buffed their own class.

You do no such thing.
I have played several tPvP games across all classes and right now I can honestly say that a warrior can do the job to fit every role with in tPvP better than those classes which were originally supposed to supposedly fit certain roles.

This game doesn’t have the holy trinity like other games. However it still has roles.
At the most basic level the roles are:
-You have your home point capper
-Mid point bunker
-Roamer
-Far Point assaulter

No class can successfully fill all these roles except one. Warrior.

Mesmer used to be able to fill the role of home point capper… Then the condi meta hit and pushed mesmers out.

Eles used to be able to be the far point assulters… RTL and cantrip nerf stopped that (and yet warriors are still griping that they need their movement to get around)

Thieves were once the gods of roaming as they should be…. Not anymore… A single hambow warrior will keep the thief from doing anything… Yet the thief requires two or three burst combos to kill a warrior wearing the same amulet…

Guardians used to be great home point and mid bunkers. But a warrior can fulfill the role so much better because guess what… a bunker warrior can OUTHEAL a bunker guardian…. With much less effort.

Should every class be able to fill more than one role with in the tournament environment? Yes.

Should one class fill all roles with little to no effort… Not one bit.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Samhayn.2385:

removing illusions would be like removing adrenaline from warriors, no one has asked for that. Your special mechanic is adrenalin not land speed, or the ability to almost ignore movement impairing effects, or the best passive healing, or the highest dps, or the highest hard cc (stun, knock backs, knock downs). So please stop playing at the game of everything you have is the definition of your class, its not and right now warriors are outside the balance spectrum and something needs to change. Warriors are too good at to many things and it seems the only people who don’t know this are warriors and devs.

btw, I think the real issue started at release when warriors started getting buffs and other classes ate nerfs. So even with nerfs the the warrior you still wouldn’t be in the same place as release because most classes are much different then we where back then.

do you know that warriors already got “best landspeed” during launch? just that during launch, they lack the sustain they have now, so no one bothered to say anything.

regarding nerfs, warriors have been receiving fair amount of nerfs since 10 dec 2013.

warriors will always have the best landspeed.
this will not change.
would you all warrior haters kindly please stop asking for the impossible?
thank you.

Mesmers said that DE would never get nerfed guess what’s on the chopping block next.
They also said that illusionists celerity wouldn’t get nerfed. Guess what happened.
Thieves said their evades wouldn’t Be nerfed. They also said stealth wouldn’t be nerfed Revealed Got nerfed.
Eles didn’t think their healing would be nerfed and neither did guards
All classes have suffered nerfs that “would never” happen. And guess what they did. So stop trying to aimlessly say warriors won’t be nerfed

naphack.9346:

Churning earth is obviously far less obvious than any skill, the warrior has.

Totally not obvious. Not at all…. Not one bit.
Hey whats that ele doing just standing there for almost 3s?
Oh who knows he’s prolly special.
WOW THERE GOES MY ENTIRE HEALTH I did not see that coming… was that the ele?
No…. eles can’t hit that hard and none of their skills are telegraphed!

TL:DR.
Warriors are so UP because of their extremely obvious telegraphed skills.

Nausicca.6038:

jportell.2197:

Now it’s an absolute joke.

I don’t have this feeling. I can still kill a lot of people in wvw, and do more than ok in spvp ( not doing tpvp so far). Of course, I have a hard time agains’t skilled players, especialy thieves, but I think it’s something normal. And most of all, I have a lot of fun playing my shatter build compared to any PU build.

Its a matter of effectiveness… If you compare the amount of work a shatter mesmer has to put in to down someone compared to any other mesmer build (almost any other build in general), it is grossly imbalanced. The nerf after nerf to the shatter build which is arguably one of the most skilled mesmer builds is what has killed it for me. My mesmer has been mostly shelved for the last few months. I pick it up after every update to test the changes and then realize that its still not on par with any other class except maybe ele…

Nausicca.6038:

I 100% support new light armors in this game.
I avoid blobing in wvw because I dislike mindless hammertrain gameplay, not because my class lacks skills in large scale pvp.
And only PU roaming mesmers are a problem. But yes… a huge majority of roaming mesmers are using a lame PU build. That’s sad, but I can’t blame them for chosing an easy build over something more risky.

The problem is the more “risky” specs are high risk low reward…. Shatter mes used to be something that should be feared…. Now it’s an absolute joke.

SallyStitches.4096:

I personally think that trait, along with some of the other traits, should be moved, but that’s my opinion. Some of our traits seem to be in trait lines that don’t make sense.

The fact that no build takes it ever…. and I mean ever… should be a pretty big hint to anet.

skyz.7321:

Too many people not reading, and going off topic.

This isn’t about the burst skills. Those are understandable.

This is about them trying to so the same to basic weapon slot attacks, and not apply this “obvious skill tell so you can dodge it” to other classes, especially to some of their class mechanic skills, when it is just as worthy.

Essentially what some people wrote here is:
“it is fine for everyone to get a flashing red light when the warrior does anything, but it is not fine for warrior to have a better chance at dodging certain skills”

Keep your unjustified bias out.

Waiting for red response still.

Discuss.

Hi I play hammer guardian….. You were saying?
Warriors can gripe about obvious animations when guardian hammer AA’s occur at the same speed.
Warriors can gripe about animations when most mesmer phantasms have at least a 1s cast time.
Warriors can gripe about animations when dragons tooth can’t just be walked out of.

The warrior apologists need to stop. This is a low skill floor low skill ceiling almost no risk endless reward braindead faceroll class that needs its passive healing nerfed its condition clear brought back inline with the original manifesto.

I used to respect champion legionnaires. Now they are pathetic.

EverythingEnds.4261:

There are actually 3 Shatter related traits in the Inspiration line.

I think, this should be some how the “bunker” traitline.

The problems with this issue simply is:
Shatter builds (probably even a defensive one) NEED:
Deceptive Evasion and Illusionary Persona.
Thus, it is impossible to combine those 2 with Shattered Conditions.

In addition, I rly doubt that sth like a “shatter bunker” will exist, du to the simple facts, that bunkers should provide good support in groupfights. Groupfights means AoEs.
AoEs mean, that you illusions might die, before you can (defensifly) shatter them.

I’d love to see shattered Conditions for ~ 20 Points in the Illusions line. It is in my opinion a realy strong trait, however, it is placed somewhere, no shatter Mes might use it.

I brought this up last year and no Anet response ever… It is extremely frustrating loving to play a mesmer but being forced into something else to be viable for your team…. It is extremely frustrating that every single class in the game has better condi clear than us and we still have jack diddly for condi clear.

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

The skill has a long CD, its dmg source is heavily telegraphed and easy to avoid, and the caster has no defensive options while the skill is in effect. I think it is quite powerful, indeed, but also costly to the user.

Sums it up quite nicely… If we want to talk about necro skills that are OP this has got to be the bottom of the list. One because it requires you to be a power-mancer which is a rare sight and still very susceptible to being focused and killed, two flesh golem… that is all.

OH its not a condi clear but hey its a condi immunity. For 8 flipping seconds. That’s no big deal right? And lyssa runes wouldn’t be bad except warriors have one of the shortest CD elites in the game.

And LOL at all the warriors griping about their condition removal.

Go play a mesmer…. I would love love loveeeeeeeeee for shattered conditions to be moved down to a master tree (thus bringing it in line with CI). You would see the qq flow.

Advent.6193:

jportell.2197:

Man this sucks… Mes has been my main forever… Good thing I leveled that guard/ele… Maybe if everyone stops playing mesmer…. It will get buffed?

Not really. The only Mesmer ‘buffs’ have been in Mantras (which we all know aren’t terribly well-liked, in the first place). Also, that class/race ratio breakdown some months ago had Mesmer as one of the game’s least played classes. If they’ll cop a squat on Mesmers’ collective faces now, one wonders if the class fading into obscurity is a plan on their part. After all, they’d no longer need to worry about balancing a class they’ve had issues doing so for, then. Would they?

Well there are several players I know that main only one class. Mesmer… These are people that have bought gems and put work into the game. And each patch it gets nerf after nerf after nerf. I’m seriously considering dropping the game all together. This includes after I have goten a legendary etc. They need to give the mesmer meaningful damage and survival buffs. I’m sick of running up to a warrior as full glass pulling off my entire combo and land it perfectly. Doesn’t even take him to half health. He gets one or two hits off on me and I am down… So clearly they are also glass…

Anet said once “Mesmers are weak to conditions this is because they have clones, blurred frenzy, and great in combat mobility [sic]”
Blurred Frenzy-Jackhammer nerfed
Illusionists celerity-Gigantic nerfbat nerf, then not so small nerfbat reversion.
Well now they are nerfing our clone production, our vigor, and giving us what? Are we getting condi clear traits moved down? Are we getting a reduced cast time on mantras? Are we going to get all those CD increases from a year ago back.

EVERY SINGLE PHANTASM HAS HAD ITS CD INCREASED…. And this was balanced around how DE was then.

Anet stop kittening the mesmer over.

Mightymealworm.8409:

At least you are not alone with guardians necros being rather slow as well.

Guards can easily acheive perm swiftness without runes…. Necros have a movement speed signet… all is vain.

Because mesmers can’t have nice things.

I have three accounts lol.3859:

soooo

Mesmer is getting their precious vigor nerfed qq

seems in line with all the other vigor nerfs and its not even that big.

More kit refinement style nerfs and more passives inc this patch.

Not that big? Most shatter mesmer builds have no access to any defensive boons at all.
Vigor is the only one. Add to that, clone generation outside of DE is pretty atrocious.

Xavi.6591:

With the upcoming nerfs to Mesmers (Critical Infusion and Deceptive Evasion), Mesmers will be weaker in 1v1 roaming. However, this also makes Mesmers a lot weaker in zerg vs zerg where they were already pitifully weak to begin with.

Man this sucks… Mes has been my main forever… Good thing I leveled that guard/ele… Maybe if everyone stops playing mesmer…. It will get buffed?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Romek.4201:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Archaon.6245:

why not just get rid of adrenal health? That is the real problem imo when paired with hs (Always)

why not just learn to counter warriors properly and stop complaining? That is the real problem imo when paired with players who are doing puny damage.

you should stop your spam – rly – it is not even funny or so

how about you warrior haters stop complaining and learn to play the game?
whiners always win unfortunately.

anyway i learned something from this.

just keep complaining about something, and they will eventually nerf.
time to do the same to other professions that i do not like then.

remember, you warrior haters started it first.

I remember you saying you are casual and do nothing but hot joins or the random soloque here or there.
I have spectated people in hot join with no traits picked even though all the trait points were spent.
Running zerker runes with a cleric ammy.
Having no sigils in any weapons
Forgetting to equip an off hand weapon.

Several people that speak up here speak up from a tPvP perspective where warrior is way too strong.

Anyone with a brain is too strong in hot join… Not the same for tPvP

In Pvp I throw out the orb and immediately pop it for a nice little heal since it has no benefit to the guard himself unless detonated.

cymerdown.4103:

Wow, I don’t see where you get off calling my document the Engi holocaust. I’m only nerfing nades, bombs, elixir r, and supply crate… you know, the useful stuff. Buffing gadgets, though.

I think you just made his point…..

silentnight warrior.2714:

jportell.2197:

silentnight warrior.2714:

jportell.2197:

Geff.1930:

Warriors are not the only culprit. All characters are on the same boat. Minion and Condi necros can build tanky and dish out a lot of damage. Tanky condi Mesmers can build tanky and rely on confusion. Also, Spirit Rangers.

Confusion mesmer in pvp…..
el
oh
el

Yea i know… it works

A condition build that revolves around one condition is garbage. Confusion in PvP is terrrible. Mesmer access to confusion has also been nerfed several times most significantly the blinding befuddlement nerf.
A strictly confusion mesmer in pvp has never been viable because the only class that has the worst condi clear is mesmer…. every other class can clear that one condition EASSSYYY.

Only on one condition you are right. Didn´t get that one.

yeah condition mesmer=/=confusion mesmer….

silentnight warrior.2714:

jportell.2197:

Geff.1930:

Warriors are not the only culprit. All characters are on the same boat. Minion and Condi necros can build tanky and dish out a lot of damage. Tanky condi Mesmers can build tanky and rely on confusion. Also, Spirit Rangers.

Confusion mesmer in pvp…..
el
oh
el

Yea i know… it works

A condition build that revolves around one condition is garbage. Confusion in PvP is terrrible. Mesmer access to confusion has also been nerfed several times most significantly the blinding befuddlement nerf.
A strictly confusion mesmer in pvp has never been viable because the only class that has the worst condi clear is mesmer…. every other class can clear that one condition EASSSYYY.

Geff.1930:

Warriors are not the only culprit. All characters are on the same boat. Minion and Condi necros can build tanky and dish out a lot of damage. Tanky condi Mesmers can build tanky and rely on confusion. Also, Spirit Rangers.

Confusion mesmer in pvp…..
el
oh
el

This thread is still going?
If you are griping about PU stealth in PvP you are bad… End of story… Their condi clear is sub par and they bring absolutely nothing to the team and still have marginal condi damage… Grabs popcorn.

Spooko.5436:

I blame the engi

Thats alota engi blame spook :P

Other team won because they had the most individual points but it was a cool match. Flat tie.

silentnight warrior.2714:

jportell.2197:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dee Jay.2460:

Arganthium.5638:

I made my own warrior build, now I’m invincible.

No, seriously though. BS’d something, and I can’t tell you how much better I’m doing on a class I’ve played for an hour versus a class that I’ve played for 1000 hours.

This is true. Close to 1600 hours on a Thief, 100 hours on a Mesmer, 2 hours on a Warrior.

Playing with the Warrior gets me the most wins in tPvP and is the most valuable class to most teams.

I agree that the whole CC-spaming is over the top, but the only serious balance-offender is Healing Signet which for some reason avoided a nerf on December 10th, for no good reason.

Most valuable class = Guardian

Nope… people can roll without guardians on their team and still do well. Sadly a bunker warrior an have as much healing power as a bunker guardian and almost 4k armor without taking a shield.

Guardians are better in preventing cap/decap of points, better at team suport and have been mandatory on teams since the beginning.
Its your opinion, and i respect that.
Hapy new year.

Wow.. no way. Warriors have much better self stability… And They provide much better offensive support for the team while having THE ABSOLUTE highest armor and highest health.

Not to mention healing signet offers the most mind numbingly ridiculous amount of healing in the entire game.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dee Jay.2460:

Arganthium.5638:

I made my own warrior build, now I’m invincible.

No, seriously though. BS’d something, and I can’t tell you how much better I’m doing on a class I’ve played for an hour versus a class that I’ve played for 1000 hours.

This is true. Close to 1600 hours on a Thief, 100 hours on a Mesmer, 2 hours on a Warrior.

Playing with the Warrior gets me the most wins in tPvP and is the most valuable class to most teams.

I agree that the whole CC-spaming is over the top, but the only serious balance-offender is Healing Signet which for some reason avoided a nerf on December 10th, for no good reason.

Most valuable class = Guardian

Nope… people can roll without guardians on their team and still do well. Sadly a bunker warrior an have as much healing power as a bunker guardian and almost 4k armor without taking a shield.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are not overpowered because if warriors are overpowered, everyone would only play warriors in sPvP and nothing else.

happy new year!

Don’t you only play casually… and even then only hotjoin?
If that is the case sadly your point doesn’t mean much. I have seen people run hotjoins with all the trait points spent but no major trait points picked out…. Any thing will be overpowered to them.
From a tournament perspective warriors are overpowered because they can do almost everything with one build.
On top of that they have the most viable builds.

Some people have a thing called pride keeping them from rolling the FOTM (FOTY?) warrior builds.

Romek.4201:

pu mesmer is not viable^^

And it has never been viable. :/

JETWING.2759:

Void.4239:

JETWING.2759:

hihey.1075:

Warrior detected?

Yes!

But i can join me to stealth and AI party anytime

Seriously ? …..

Let me explain why you just failed for a big part of the pvp community.

1 ) PU mesmer = High stealth build = Pretty USELESS in " hold the point" kind of game.
=>Balanced for Spvp/Tpvp cause of stealth downside

2 ) Warrior = High almost everything build = TO USEFULL in " hold the point " kind of game.
=> Unbalanced for spvp/tpvp cause it can do to much for what he has to sacrifice.

3 ) Try building a full Bunker warrior with condition damage , and see how hard folks will have it trying to kill you. Cause that is pretty much what the Mesmer had to do to get that survivability.

4 ) Playing a warrior and complaining about a Mesmer Bunker build that cant even Hold points, in the SPVP section of the forum ……..Its just LOL

But i guess that to be expected from " Overpowered character hoppers "

cheerz LOL

1) Mesmers can hold the point after kill the invader :/ Also can support and dps even while in stealth.
3) Do not exist bunker warrior. I never saw one :/ My build eat alive these supposed bunker/regen/condition warrior in tPvP. But thanks for trying.
4) Is not only about class vs class :/ Stealth spam is one of things that can ruin this game. This trait in special (Desperate Decoy), gathers all that ruins the pvp in this game: passive play, stealth spam, AI spam and low risk/cost with high reward.

Because sooo many mesmers run desperate decoy. It is almost as bad as thief last refuge because more often than not you do something that pops you out of stealth and giving you the revealed debuff… You sir are not the sharpest crayon in the box.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

jportell.2197:

Also another reason I think people are hating on warriors right now is they can do the job of every role in pvp. They have a good burst build, a good bunker build, a good roamer build, and a good condi build. No class has the build diversity for pvp that a warrior does right now.

i think to be fair, all other professions should have many viable builds.

what do you think?

In a tournament setting no.

Eles are out of the meta still.

Guardians bunker because a burst guardian goes down much easier and faster than a burst anything else usually.

Mesmers still have requirements to bring to the table for tournaments such as IOL and portal. on top of that some mesmer builds aren’t viable in tournament setting (PU) because they rely on stealth.

Engis prolly have the second best build diversity they have a bunker, condi, burst, roam spec… difference is if they are burst they can actually be killed without requiring 3 people to do it.

Necros still only really have condi spec for viability

Thief was almost eliminated with the S/D nerf… Rarely are they something to be afraid of anymore.

Rangers are usually stuck to one build right now its mainly still spirits.

Should all classes have a wide variety of builds to be viable yes.
Do all classes have a wide variety of builds.. yes they do.
Are all of the builds for those classes viable in a tournament setting no.
Only one class has the most viable builds in tournament settings and only one class can fulfill every role on a team and still be an unkillable tank… warriors…

Arganthium.5638:

jportell.2197:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

current formula is
392 + healing power x 0.05

what if
370 + healing power x 0.10

would it be better?

and move adrenal health to a higher tier, require 25 points instead of 15 points

No because then the standard hambow healing signet would heal for 7 less HP/second… that is not enough. And it doesn’t matter where you move adrenal health in the defense tree because it will always be taken no matter what.

Actually, that’s not really true. First of all, you’re not considering just using the 7 less HPS as a stepping stone towards further nerfs. Granted, I will say that the increase in the slope with healing power shouldn’t happen (it should stay at .5), but I think that you’re still missing the point, and that’s to stop the “revolutionary” nerfs and start talking about evolutionary steps towards balance.

Also, moving the trait up in the defense tree can be the difference between taking a good major trait and not taking one. You really can’t underestimate what a few extra trait points will do.

he’s not talking about making it a major trait he is talking about swapping it with the grandmaster minor trait. So for the build that everyone is griping about no it won’t make a difference. And I don’t want further nerfs I want a nerf that will make healing signet not as ridiculous as it is… for instance look at mesmers new “healing” signet… it heals for almost 100pts less healing with a higher coefficient at 300 healing power. Giving it place in only a few niche builds… Healing signet is taken by every warrior in every tournament no matter what. Granted the mesmer healing signet actually has a nice active making it worth while using to frontload damage.

So maybe in compensation for doing something to healing signet the active can bring something with it besides just a flat heal…

Also another reason I think people are hating on warriors right now is they can do the job of every role in pvp. They have a good burst build, a good bunker build, a good roamer build, and a good condi build. No class has the build diversity for pvp that a warrior does right now.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

current formula is
392 + healing power x 0.05

what if
370 + healing power x 0.10

would it be better?

and move adrenal health to a higher tier, require 25 points instead of 15 points

No because then the standard hambow healing signet would heal for 7 less HP/second… that is not enough. And it doesn’t matter where you move adrenal health in the defense tree because it will always be taken no matter what.

Treborlavok.3504:

Mrbig.8019:

Treborlavok.3504:

TheGuy.3568:

Simply put it is one of the best long range weapons in the game. Is combustive shot OP? For conquest mode yes it is. The main issue is burning hits way too hard and it is very hard to avoid that skill while trying to contest a point. Add in Fast Hands + Burst Mastery and you just spam it off cooldown. Lets not pretend like adrenaline is hard to build. We all know it isn’t. Warrior isn’t really OP for this skill. Healing Signet still needs to be looked at and base damage is rather high across the board on warrior (though this is by design).

Fact is warrior is OP as it is right now. People who play warrior will adamantly defend the class no matter how valid the point is. People who don’t play will say the whole class and every skill should be nerfed. Exaggerations of course. Anet will shuffle their feet.

i dont play war and im defending them… its not hard to counter them you just need to actually counter them and not just sit there.

In a game like this every class does/should have a hard counter. Just because you cant handle said war spec with your said spec doesnt mean that noone else can/does.

This is not about hard counters, this is about a single skil forcing people of the point for 9 secs by simply pressing a button.

it’s either “lose the point” or “die in it” for almost all professions aside a guardian.

At least an engi needs to HIT YOU with its CCs, the war simply spams it on CD and if you go off point, you have a nice NO ANIMATION pin down which roots you for another 3 secs followed by a 5-6 k arcing arrow.

But well, whatevr, i’m done with this discussion, there’s no way to make people understand.

Meteor.. marks… barrage… Churning earth… dragons tooth….bomb/nade spam…

Stability, condi cleanse, reflect/block… pull/push him from point with skills like scorpion wire or magnet or gs 5 on guard focus 4 on mes etc etc etc…. counter him dont sit there with your thumb up your bum.

Shall i keep going?… counter them.

Meteor shower lolol. If you get hit by two of them yeah maybe your dead…
Barrage… that damage is sooo good lemme tell you not to mention the ranger is rooted while doing it making him susceptible to interrupts.
Marks may be the only instance where you have a case here
Churning earth… yeah because it doesn’t have one of the longest cast times ever…. same for dat dragons tooth.
Engi-bombs the none of them come close to the DOT that can be procced from combustive shot plus pindown.
Nades take a 30 point trait to even be useful really so it is a huge investment for them to work.

As for your remarks on CC warriors have the best CC while having the best immunity to CC… If they took the traits for it they could have a stability up time of 20s at least.

So yes warriors can be countered… But the hambow build usually requires a 2v1 to kill the warrior and a 0/0/30/30/x bunker build the warrior needs 3 people to kill him and even then it takes quite a bit of effort…

Treborlavok.3504:

TheGuy.3568:

Simply put it is one of the best long range weapons in the game. Is combustive shot OP? For conquest mode yes it is. The main issue is burning hits way too hard and it is very hard to avoid that skill while trying to contest a point. Add in Fast Hands + Burst Mastery and you just spam it off cooldown. Lets not pretend like adrenaline is hard to build. We all know it isn’t. Warrior isn’t really OP for this skill. Healing Signet still needs to be looked at and base damage is rather high across the board on warrior (though this is by design).

Fact is warrior is OP as it is right now. People who play warrior will adamantly defend the class no matter how valid the point is. People who don’t play will say the whole class and every skill should be nerfed. Exaggerations of course. Anet will shuffle their feet.

i dont play war and im defending them… its not hard to counter them you just need to actually counter them and not just sit there.

In a game like this every class does/should have a hard counter. Just because you cant handle said war spec with your said spec doesnt mean that noone else can/does.

I play warr in tpvp right now and I’m not defending them. the damage i can do with a soldiers ammy is ridiculous compared to other classes trying to run the same stats… Then the amount of sustain that i can have in a healing banner build is also just completely ridiculous.

Lets take a hammer build x/x/30/x/30 with healing signet. Now all other bogusness aside… for 15 points they are getting a nice buff to their heal.
Take something like engineers elixir infused bombs… 30 points for roughly the same healing from the trait… with the same healing coeffecient (0.15)… now yes there are other things engis might have like the recharge on the heal skill at 25% health. But it has a huge ICD.

Then lets take guardians 15 point trait the dodge on heal. Guardian dodges are not spammable perma vigor or not. In fact to even match the passive healing that a non-bunker warrior can get a guardian has to go 30 points into one trait line and 20 points into another while actively applying boons and laying out symbols so they have no choice but to be bunkerish unless running meditations but even then they are still a free kill because lawls scepter. And to get his “passive” heal to mean anything he has to spend 20 more trait points.

Then lets move on to condition removal… And for the sake of argument lets compare a bunker warrior to a bunker guardian.

So a bunker warrior running warhorn+cleansing ire both traited. Can effectively clear all conditions almost all conditions in the game every 12s. Cleansing ire takes care of 3 considering that you can never miss with bow f1 since its ground targeted pulse. Charge clears 2 conditions if the warrior has cripple chill or immob on them, call to arms.

Then lets move on to guardians condi clear in comparison to warrior… A trait which removes ONE every 10s… How many can a warrior remove every 10s with cleansing ire? Oh yeah three Now the guardian can also take the signet of resolve but then it takes up his healing slot without you know…. healing him…hence why no guardians run that in tourneys anymore… in any build.
Then after that we have pure of voice… now this used to be bugged to turn two condis into boons and all guards were jumping for joy. It was promptly fixed… so now guardians self condi clear is nothing compared to warriors…

TLDR: Warriors don’t give up that much to be tanky while dishing out above average damage, warriors can bunker better than a class that has less than half their base vitality and was sort of designed to do the bunkering job.

My solution: Nerf healing signet base healing… However up the coeffecient so that those who spec healing power can still get some use from it. As for the condi clear, the condi meta is still ridiculous so other classes ability to remove conditions should be bumped up to be on par with warriors. And make traits that deal with clearing conditions somewhat balanced across the classes. The class with the highest armor, highest damage, and highest vitality should not also have the most rapid rate of condi clear.

K U T M.4539:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

K U T M.4539:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

jportell.2197:

Treborlavok.3504:

Kagamiku.9731:

Warrior was nerfed last patch and the QQ became even stronger. Give whiners the feeling that their opinions can influence an outcome, and you’ll never get rid of them.

Yea I know it’s sad.

Honestly ppl just need to let these threads die.

Except warriors can clear condis better than guards, do good damage, have great survivability and great mobility… without sacrificing… Its kind of ridiculous really.

its working as intended. we sacrifice the ability to do ridiculous amount of damage in a very short period in order to have the above you mentioned.

What do you sacrifice, exactly?

hmmm i dun do ridiculous burst damage.

Soldier hammer/longbow wars can do 3-4k Earthshakers followed by a 3k backbreaker, and then about the same with Combustive shot and arcing arrow.

If you don’t think that’s ridiculous for being tanky as hell, well, you should probably try another class with soldiers amulet and see how much damage you do.

Pretty much this. As a comparison run a guard with soldiers ammy and lemme know how that works out for you damage wise.

After playing my warrior in a bunker builds in pvp… I am kind of apalled that it can do the job of holding the point and healing through damage better than my guard…

Dual.8953:

A common arguement I see from players defending HS is that Warriors need it to stay viable. If that’s the case, why do most Warriors I know in game seem to favour Healing Surge?

It’s a combination of adrenal health+HS, and if they are traited for it the banner regen It allows warriors to regen for amounts that are on par with most bunker builds….This is without the warrior doing anything at all but their normal rotation.

Treborlavok.3504:

Kagamiku.9731:

Warrior was nerfed last patch and the QQ became even stronger. Give whiners the feeling that their opinions can influence an outcome, and you’ll never get rid of them.

Yea I know it’s sad.

Honestly ppl just need to let these threads die.

Except warriors can clear condis better than guards, do good damage, have great survivability and great mobility… without sacrificing… Its kind of ridiculous really.

Rednik.3809:

jportell.2197:

clint.5681:

Which skills are you hitting for 3-4k on a soilders warrior

Earthshaker/Backbreaker/Staggering blow….

Hit or crit?

Crit of course.. hit is 2-3 usually

clint.5681:

Which skills are you hitting for 3-4k on a soilders warrior

Earthshaker/Backbreaker/Staggering blow….

clint.5681:

jportell.2197:

SonofNoob.3102:

Wow, let us just delete the warrior from the game. How dare they be viable!

Its not the viability its that they have pushed classes completely out of the meta. Also warriors can take a soldiers ammy and still dish out ridiculous damage… Other classes have to go full zerker to do that.

maybe prenerf not anymore

My warrior still hits 3-4k damage with some of its skills while using a soldiers amulet, my guardian while built similarly with similar stats doesn’t hit near that much. The damage coeffecients for some warrior skills are just wayy to high when compared to other classes.

SonofNoob.3102:

Wow, let us just delete the warrior from the game. How dare they be viable!

Its not the viability its that they have pushed classes completely out of the meta. Also warriors can take a soldiers ammy and still dish out ridiculous damage… Other classes have to go full zerker to do that.

Silv.9207:

Whit your build I see only 23% critical rate and you’re not able to obtain fury.

I agree whit Ludus.
There’s only 2 class that can’t obtain passive speed buff: Guardian and Engi. But engi can obtain permanente swiftness.

Whit more speed you can escape from your enemy or follow your group easy.

Mesmer’s also don’t have a OOC movement buff… Let’s not forget about that.

It destroys self swiftness massively. Good luck trying to catch anyone running from you.

Lol the good controller part is wrong wrong wrong. Warrior is a 10x better controller.

Adam.4103:

Yes because the sheer amount of guardians spamming staff auto supports your statement.

because there are SOOOO many guards that do that right? :P

DeathPanel.8362:

jportell.2197:

This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.

It’s irrelevant that you don’t want to comment on pve. The topic does not make that distinction so I commented on it. Also, I’ve already stated this numerous times. The heal is an addendum, and therefore you can choose not to use it if it doesn’t work for you. Therefore it in no way magnifies any problems.

The most useful aspects of the guardian is in the reflects, blinds, and virtues and those are in tact in any meditation build and one of the meditations can be swapped out for consecration or stand your ground for specific encounters that require stability so your statements regarding meditation group play is invalid.

Because in Pve yes this heal can be useful with mobs that don’t run away from you. In tPvP it can be somewhat useful since it is all about capping the points. In wvw it is utterly useless…

Also while a meditation spec can “bring” all those things… The wasted 30 trait points spent going into meditations is what kills your group support. They bring no vulnerability (symbols/blinds), No damage modifiers (compared to 25 in any other line besides valor), and no condi removal from the virtues (because if you use meditations chances are you won’t go more than 10 into virtues).

You can’t sit and tell me that you run a full meditation build that brings all the other stuff that a build like 10/25/0/5/25 or any other variation brings… There is a reason the “best” guard builds for pve stay away from valor… Because aside from strength in numbers it is generally useless for pve. In pvp that is another story entirely.

RyuDragnier.9476:

jportell.2197:

Just throwing this out there. The amount of buffs and such that other classes have recieved have left guardian in a very underwhelming place. At launch they were “OP”. The beginning of this year they were “okay”… Now…. well now I think its about time they got some meaningful buffs…

I laughed. Guardians will never be underwhelming, Guardians rock for every occasion, and are IMO one of the best classes in the game in terms of overall design. Besides, you think you’re in a bad spot? Level a ranger to 80 and play every game mode for it. THEN talk to me about underwhelming.

They are not underwhelming… However all other classes are getting love in leaps and bounds… And anet is just kinda fiddling with guards… Nothing to major in any direction.