Guild Wars 2

My frustration with the community. Engis

kitten this class

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Scoobaniec.9561:

jportell.2197:

Seriously sick fo the entire kitten ed class. What’s worse is all these engis think they are “good” when the freaking turret or cele ammy is doing all the work for them.

And slick shoes which you cant even dodge – thats some serious bs here.

Ahh yes can’t forget about slick shoes!

What really cracks me up is Anet is trying sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to make mesmers the “lockdown” class. Yet I can think off the top of my head why engis already have that covered:

• Slick Shoes (unblockable btw, guess how many unblockable interrupts freaking mesmers have?!)
• Accelerant packed turrets
• Launch on a freaking 15s CD, because anet says “HELL YES!”
• Net shot.
• Magnet pull (also unblockable, because REASONS!)

And then we have the near spammable soft CC which comes in the form of

• Frost grenade
• Throw wrench
• Box of nails

Then add to it, medium armor, and HP, Plus an absolute butt ton of survivability in the form of healing turret which if you look at all the “meta” classes they have healing skills that are either totally uninterruptable, or require the absolute best of luck to interrupt.

Has been this way for quite sometime too. I’m not saying it is the cause that all these classes engis include are dominating pvp. It certainly, does not hurt.

Seriously sick fo the entire kitten ed class. What’s worse is all these engis think they are “good” when the freaking turret or cele ammy is doing all the work for them.

Seriously sick of seeing turret engis on EVERY single match. Or a combination of engis,
or teams of all engis.

WHEN WILL THIS CLASS BE FREAKING BALANCED?!

Here I am playing mesmer a class that has been deleted from the meta several fricking times, and engi has been sitting comfy on it’s flipping high horse for over a year now. So I ask when will it finally be bad to stack engis, when will god kitten incendiary powder be nerfed? And for the love of god when will you finally make it so someone actually needs a half a brain to play turret engis. Actually I wouldn’t care if you deleted the entire god kitten ed turret spec from the game. Your game is becoming less and less fun the more engis there are in it.

And please don’t tell me that cele rifle engi is “sooooooooo hard to play” it’s not and you know it.

The whole god kitten class is broken and easy mode. And don’t give me this “cele rifle is so hard to play blah blah blah.” At least condi engis you can take down somewhat easily, turrets the AI does the work for the player, cele the amulet and slick shoes let the player run a train on the whole point. The entire class is broken and needs nerfed on so many different levels it isn’t even funny.

Btw yes I main mesmer, and yes I am kittening salty that mesmer has had the hardest time even trying to keep up with these BS classes that are ruining pvp.

Both are bad and should not exist
/thread

What builds are hard? Shatter mes.
/thread

@ frost there was a condi meta. It was called dhuumfire Just sayinf

State of the necromancer? As someone that has mained both mesmer and necromancer I can say that once again Anet has given all classed that are weak to something GREAT ways to deal with that weakness except…. mesmer.

Build needs god kitten ed removed. Seriously sick of engi days, may as well rename it turret daily, since that is what almost every kitten engi is running on engi daily. kitten this build.

Can condi work? For soloque/pugging it sure. If you are ever in a team, that is using TS my advice is to go power shatter (not MTD). Why? Well if you are in a coordinated team that one already accepts you on your mes, feel happy. Now that being said, if you are playing condi you are forgetting some of the key reasons people bring a mes

• Heavy boon strip with some amazing burst.
• Interrupts, as it stands right now the only class with better CC than us as far as interrupts go is engis, with some necro builds in a close second.
• Portal- from what i’ve seen in most condi builds, they don’t include portal. In a team even unorganized or hell even in a pug. Portal can be a game changer. Having one player on your team in a pug that knows what it is and when to make use of it can keep the flow of a match in your favor.

Now that being said, is it the best possible mesmer build? No, it is not. That is coming from someone that has been an active part of the mesmer community since near launch, and played (most) mesmer builds til blue in the face.

Basically if you are trying to fill a condi slot on a team, you are better off on an engi/necro plain and simple. If you are trying to fill a mesmer slot on a team, more often than not you will bring more to that team as a power shatter mesmer. Those who want to disagree with me on this can, but from playing and facing several condi mesmers (even getting my rear handed to me by some of them), in the long run you bring more to your team, on power shatter. I have lost my fair share of 1v1’s to condi builds, but almost no matches have been lost to a team with a condi mesmer.

Royal.2693:

Why are people not complaining about OP celestial cheese anymore? Turrets are annoying, but nothing compared to that.

Because at turrets and celestials are both equally annoying. However a cele engi has one source of damage at a time. IE themselves. Also If you are in a soloque. Turrets require more coordination than is possible in soloque. Not to mention the stackability of turrets. Just sayin.

nad.8910:

let’s all pray together: god of videogames free us from turrets

I think we’re up to 5 turret complaint threads a day. Think about it anet, someone is coming here 5 times a day to say they HATE turrets. And you aren’t hearing the community. It needs hotnerfed like asap.

Oh just had this little Gem of a game.

Well I wish a dev would come in and say “We are going to look at it.” Or some such, because constantly fighting turrets, is getting old, kitten ed fast.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Mesmers do have the tools to deal with them, but double ranged shatter has none of them available to it :p

It’s seriously just getting annoying. Even premades are running double turret engis now. This is making the game less and less fun. Which makes me not want to buy the expac more and more.

This is seriously getting kittening annoying. It needs god kitten ed destroyed, it is carrying bad people and completely pushing mesmers out of the game more so than they already kittening were.

Terrorsquad.2349:

They still apply too much pressure, even vs organized teams.

Why would a inexperienced Turret Engi be able to pressure an good, experienced organized team? Doesn’t make sense at all. Even when 2v1, sure, we beat it, if we got the perfect circumstances. We still receive alot of random damage/cc which should be nerfed.

Top players also are trying to proof how stupidly OP it is through stream.

Basically yeah this. Even when against organized teams, turret engis still force the entire team to play aro7nd them and there stupid turrets

phokus.8934:

If you’re double ranged Shatter and have Illusionary Elasticity, then using MIrror Blade does very well against turrets.

We’re not completely helpless against turret Engineers. Just stay ranged, keep putting pressure up, Shatter when you need to, and just making sure you’re using IE to its fullest.

See this is the most annoying thing, the answer is stay ranged. This is conquest no matter how long it takes me to kill him I HAVE to stay at range. They are literally the only build/spec in the game that you have to stay at ranged for the entire flipping fight. And as was already mentioned, if they are smart several points in the game they can LOS you and just force you to get up close and personal. Yeah, turret engis are fine.

Yeah this match up sounds totally in the mesmers favor. When I’m with my normal group, we have no trouble dealing with turret engis. Hell he is usually bursted down within 2s of being on the point because we run two mesmers one CI/BI the other shatter. In soloque, turret engis are the pugstompers, and are just making solo PvP unfun on Engi daily which is way more than it should be.

Fay.2357:

Three options. The first option is to simply let them have fun humping turrets on that point and go do things elsewhere. This is usually the best option. The second option is to bring a friend. If you really need to debunk that engie, you should bring a friend. The third option is to nuke the turrets/engie down from 1200 range with greatsword. The engie can’t really retaliate against you doing that…but it’ll take quite a while.

So in a conquest gamemode, mesmer as a whole is kittened against turrets? Got it.

I play double ranged shatter, I feel it’s the best overall build for solo/teams. However up against a turret engi, I just feel useless. Do I need to change my entire build to constant reflects/interrupts, just to deal with one kitten ed build.

coglin.1867:

Why should it go? Because you claim it is stupid?

You appear to confuse your subjective opinion with that of objective fact my friend.

I enjoy seeing a turret engie on the opposing side. They are ridiculously easy to deal with.

Simply put. This build is unfun to fight against. Especially in soloque, where on engi daily, I always seem to wind up facing at least two on the opposing team.+

manarchon.2089:

A mesmer “specialist” who cant counter a turret engi. Interesting. Maybe the easiest class to take turreteer down fast when running power build. Kinda fun as well.

1v1, it still takes longer than almost any other bunker build in the game, not to mention the mesmer HAS to kite around the point and fight off the point to avoid the knockback’s and cc. So if the point is neutral, kiss your ability to contest it good bye. And after it’s no longer neutral the amount of time it takes to kill the engi as a standard shatter mes is so ridiculous you are better off plus 1-ing another fight.

Bottom line- it shouldn’t be nerfed because it’s overpowered (I think it is for the amount of player input required to make it work.), It should be nerfed because it kills any freaking semblance of fun people can have in soloque. Especially on engineer daily. Anet needs to change it to turret daily.

manarchon.2089:

Its kind of a paradox that ppl complain about some build that is easy to counter and call it braindead afk build (which it is in a way) when they themselves die off fire from stationary turrets because they stand on the fire and dont even try take them out.

One might start to think that ppl that complain nerf this nerf that on a daily basis use up all their time complaining on forums instead of practicing their own counterplay on classes and builds they feel difficult from one reason or another to play against.

Analytical discussion about class balance is another thing. But then you would need some valid arguments.

Honestly, I just hate the build because it promotes terrible play, discouraging new players that don’t play turrets from playing the game, while making new players that do play turrets think they are the bees neez, and annoying any player that favors a class that can’t counter turrets but likes to solo que.

Than turret engis. Seriously when, is Anet going to nerf this kitten ed build. I know its terrible at high level play, as it should be. But it is killing any form of fun in soloque. At all.

Rename it turret daily. Pls.

Edit: Also if you don’t like hearing bad mouthing in game when someone calls you out on your BS turret build, oh i don’t know, turn the effing profanity filter on.

Wait I just realized? WHERE IS CRUUK!

He is the best teef player NA! Just ask him!

Well anet has shown time and time again that mesmers can’t have nice things.
* glamour build- gone Nonexistent now.

• actual confusion builds that relied on constant blind applications- totallg gone
• clone death builds gutted
• illusionist celerity nerf hammered then slightly less
• portal cd massively increased long ago
• mainhand sword- shadow of its formal self
• nearly all new gm traits Freaking useless. MtD is the closest one to good. The rest are god awful (Maybe triumphant distortion in wvw but otherwise no)
• mantras- mesmer may as well be chanting " kill me now"

This is just off the top of my head as to why i am skeptical about anything for this class in HoT

Lol paw paw…..

BlackTruth.6813:

Here in this thread, we support prejudice equality and hate easy builds which is a big middle finger to the people who worked kitten hard to play specs.

Like shatter mes. Which surprisingly I got told by a D/D Cele ele that d/d ele is harder to play than shatter mes. >.<

Depends on the situation. If I am getting focused and I know it. Cautious, then kite kite kite!

ronpierce.2760:

jportell.2197:

You know what I would LOOOOOOOOVEEEEEE to have happen. Moa morph not despawns all Minions similar to engis turrets.

Fixed that for you, friend.

Ai builds don’t belong in a competitive mode in this game. Anything that counters it is welcome. Ask around

I honestly just wish ANET would move the turrets giving boons and turrets do more damage into grandmasters of the same traitline. That way an engi has to CHOOSE either more damage or More bunk. Can’t kittening have your cake and eat it to.

You know what I would LOOOOOOOOVEEEEEE to have happen. Moa morph despawns all engis turrets just like it does MM necros.

Trigr.6481:

jportell.2197:

I’ve seen plenty of people running this build. Honestly, I feel that it detracts from organized teams, and is less survivable in 1v1/1vx scenarios than standard shatter mes. I know countless runs a signet build but I honestly feel that guy could play while sitting on one hand and still be better than most of us.

• You have absolutely no peel capability. Yes there is massinvis, however it has a cast time longer than that of your distortion from your signets. This is even more shown by the fact that you don’t have blink. With the port changes blink can get you ALMOST ANYWHERE in most PvP maps. The lack of blink hurts your ability to sustain yourself more than you know. Which brings me to your lack of ability to drop target. Mesmers go down faster than any other class when targeted, and if they can’t drop that target they are even more screwed. So why no decoy? Or Desperate Decoy at least? Your phantasms have a high enough crit chance without the fury. Not to mention the iWarlock does power based damage, which scales horribly unless you are specced into power.

• Distortion, you make such a big deal about your distortion in this build, why not drop menders purity and go for masterful reflection instead? Not only do you now become invulnerable on signet activation, you can absolutely wreck any ranged class. Which brings me to menders purity.

• Okay I know it’s a signet build and all, but the maths have been done, Signet of Ether is hands down the worst healing skill for mesmers especially in a PvP environment. I know it’s got neat little tricks for other things such as maxing DPS in PVE, but as far as healing goes, even with max illusions out you do not heal for all that much, and the base healing on activation isn’t worth the cooldown compared to every single other healing skill mesmers have. In a PvP setting it is literally only slightly better than necro signet of vampirism, and you should go ask necros how they feel about that healing skill. And if you really want to keep menders purity go for something that you can get the most out of it. Use those signet invulns to use a mantra. That is 6 conditions removed every 10s if you used the mantra on CD (granted I’m sure you wouldn’t.)

• Lastly your offense. Yes the duelist does nice bleeds, and thats about it in this build. Your scepter clones torment doesn’t last very long, and you would put out more condi pressure if you just dropped the signets all together and went for iElasticity and kept up a bunch of staff clones. Even on shatter mes, iElasticity allows me to stack max bleeds, and about 10s of burning.

And for those that say “countless runs this build.” Last time I faced him he wasn’t using scepter and I am pretty sure he was power based, also the guy could prolly play blindfolded while sitting on one hand.

The only thing that I personally would question is the reliability of scepter in general in a teamfight. Scepter is unreliable at best to put it bluntly, you can’t even direct the torment with multiple enemies reliably, therefore it’s a incomplete weapon imo. Furthermore when it comes to trait allocation, you have multiple options of what to trait for when it comes to clone on death, and I believe is situational depending on what you’re facing. You have the following options.

2-6-4-2-0 – My standard build, decent condi application with good condi clear – Lyssa
4-6-6-0-0 – Chaotic interruption – For all you risk takers
4-6-4-0-0 – Condition heavy with crippling
2-6-4-0-2 – Reflect heavy from distortion on signet, good for power rangers, necros, etc

However in the past week or two I actually made a variant of my build that I dare say performs better than my standard build. I shall have to make a video for you guys sometime this week explaining it

Countless

Well my post is directed at the linked build in the OP. So yeah. I know you play signets and I will never understand why. But I’ll stick with shatter >.> <.<

Bobble head was more annoying but also more fun. This is just ridiculous.

MailMail.6534:

Threads like this is why Mesmer will always be an underwhelming class, and never see consistent play in top tier.

I feel we will never see that much play in top tier not because of threads like this, more so because of mesmers glaring weaknesses that Anet still hasn’t addressed.

I’ve seen plenty of people running this build. Honestly, I feel that it detracts from organized teams, and is less survivable in 1v1/1vx scenarios than standard shatter mes. I know countless runs a signet build but I honestly feel that guy could play while sitting on one hand and still be better than most of us.

• You have absolutely no peel capability. Yes there is massinvis, however it has a cast time longer than that of your distortion from your signets. This is even more shown by the fact that you don’t have blink. With the port changes blink can get you ALMOST ANYWHERE in most PvP maps. The lack of blink hurts your ability to sustain yourself more than you know. Which brings me to your lack of ability to drop target. Mesmers go down faster than any other class when targeted, and if they can’t drop that target they are even more screwed. So why no decoy? Or Desperate Decoy at least? Your phantasms have a high enough crit chance without the fury. Not to mention the iWarlock does power based damage, which scales horribly unless you are specced into power.

• Distortion, you make such a big deal about your distortion in this build, why not drop menders purity and go for masterful reflection instead? Not only do you now become invulnerable on signet activation, you can absolutely wreck any ranged class. Which brings me to menders purity.

• Okay I know it’s a signet build and all, but the maths have been done, Signet of Ether is hands down the worst healing skill for mesmers especially in a PvP environment. I know it’s got neat little tricks for other things such as maxing DPS in PVE, but as far as healing goes, even with max illusions out you do not heal for all that much, and the base healing on activation isn’t worth the cooldown compared to every single other healing skill mesmers have. In a PvP setting it is literally only slightly better than necro signet of vampirism, and you should go ask necros how they feel about that healing skill. And if you really want to keep menders purity go for something that you can get the most out of it. Use those signet invulns to use a mantra. That is 6 conditions removed every 10s if you used the mantra on CD (granted I’m sure you wouldn’t.)

• Lastly your offense. Yes the duelist does nice bleeds, and thats about it in this build. Your scepter clones torment doesn’t last very long, and you would put out more condi pressure if you just dropped the signets all together and went for iElasticity and kept up a bunch of staff clones. Even on shatter mes, iElasticity allows me to stack max bleeds, and about 10s of burning.

And for those that say “countless runs this build.” Last time I faced him he wasn’t using scepter and I am pretty sure he was power based, also the guy could prolly play blindfolded while sitting on one hand.

Chaith.8256:

1.) Turrets.
2.) Turrets.
3.) Turrets.
4.) Turrets.
5.) Turrets.
6.) D/D Ele.

Sums it up for me.

So just played on forest in a trip que, with two buddies.

Our split was

• one home
• one watching the beach for crossers.
• three mid.

Noone crossed the person watching the beach went directly mid.

Here were the enemy team splits

• One home
  *Two Beast
  *Two mid.

We outmanned them in the first team fight 2-to-1. Steam rolled the fight, they got the beast. And then we capped mid.

They were ahead for all of 5 seconds with the beast kill. After that we were ahead, and gaining double the points in the same time as they were.

There is some math for you on why you shouldn’t ever go mob at start.

Zarathustra.1458:

jportell.2197:

Fay.2357:

Sorel.4870:

jportell.2197:

Wow. Someone calling mesmers OP cuz they cant find the real one. Are we in beta weekend 1 again? O.o

That’s a good sign actually! It means we have some fresh blood in pvp.

That’s actually an interesting way to look at it.

@OP….nm, not even gonna.

An interestijg way to look at it. I just hope no more of these posts show up or anet will do something like put a 10s icd on deceptive evasion lol.

Don’t even joke about that, I am almost at the point of treating mesmer nerf jokes like Actors treat Hamlet.

It’s not really a joke. Anet threw the idea out there about a year ago in either the State of The Game, or A Ready Up Episode. It was gonna be the same time they nerfed vigor, etc. So yeah.

It’s been awhile since We’ve seen mesmer Op thread.. >.<

Fay.2357:

Sorel.4870:

jportell.2197:

Wow. Someone calling mesmers OP cuz they cant find the real one. Are we in beta weekend 1 again? O.o

That’s a good sign actually! It means we have some fresh blood in pvp.

That’s actually an interesting way to look at it.

@OP….nm, not even gonna.

An interestijg way to look at it. I just hope no more of these posts show up or anet will do something like put a 10s icd on deceptive evasion lol.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/please-get-mesmers-out-of-pvp/first#post4925254

Apparently mesmers are so OP we need to be completely removed from PvP.

I can’t target the real one! OHMG! Dey is so many clonezz that do so muchhh deepz!

Karl please Halp!

Amir.1570:

Mesmer isn’t more braindead broken than Turret Engi, Guard, or Ranger. But still a very braindead easy class to play.

Be careful with what you Mesmer mains want nerfed

P.S Maybe stop playing victim saying your class is UP. It’s easy to play atm and buffing it will screw balance.

At the Scrubcake level sure mesmer is easy to play. But at the Scrubcake level there are a bunch of PU mesmers, and condi mesmers. Of course you are gonna hate fighting these guys, but the bigger the fight and the higher up they go in skill. The less useful they become.

History lesson kids:
Mesmer is the ONLY class in the game that has only had one competitive build for use in tournaments since release.

DeWolfe.2174:

On a simple matter of mechanics, Memser’s have been as off putting to play against or more so than Thieves. Both thieves and Mesmer’s should not have the burst capacity they have. Not with the gimmicky mechanics the professions possess. It should be a trade off of one of the other, not both. In a PvP setting, I’d much rather have a straight up fighting.

Here’s my motto in PvP….
Anything else is cowardly.

Rangers have stealth and immunities, eles have stab tons of healing and immunities, warriors have tons of condi clear, health and armor.

All of these are gimmicky and unfun to fight against. Seriously tho the higher you get in pvp the easier thieves and even more so mesmers become to deal with. Here’s a little insight for u too. Mesmers have not been on a winning team for any major tournament in over a year. So how OP are they really?

Drakortha.6974:

no only real, fair, balanced classes. warrior, guardian, ranger, engineer..

lmao. Real fair and balanced. Sounds like Fox News with about just as much perspective.

Wow. Someone calling mesmers OP cuz they cant find the real one. Are we in beta weekend 1 again? O.o

Mobs on forest are great! They really help in bolstering your team.
That being said:

1. At the start of the match the capture points carry more weight than the beasts. Yes a pain train can kill them quickly, doesn’t mean its worth it.

1. The mobs should only be done after the first team fight is over, or if you know the rest of the team is on respawn and you need the points to catch up, OR you want to bolster your lead some by snagging it while the rest of the enemy team is on respawn.

I say again, if it is a close match or right at the start of the match and you have a point neutralized always go for the capture point and the team fight first.

When I am in soloque, turret engis are by far the most annoying thing ever. Not because I personally have a hard time dealing with them, but because I some how always get people that keep running into a point and try to take on one or even two turret engis, instead of rotating around them.

Perfect example of how to deal with them (this was with a team but still holds true.)

• If they win the first team fight that’s fine. Back cap them and have a ganker (thief/mes combo) or any combination of a pain train intercept them before they get to a point.
• If they have two turret engis that blew all their cds mid, use superior mobility to keep them from getting anywhere.

If they do have mid, don’t try and take it back. Keep the turret engis corralled in the area around mid. My best example of this is Temple of The Silent Storm. Once the mid fight was lost we pushed far and capped it. They still had 3 people mid from the team fight. We had two people kite the bridges and the edges of Gate. While our thief/ele kept eyes on respawn. Using that strat we kept all 5 of them stuck in mid, and they could not get out because well they were engis. They couldn’t teleport up to the bridge, and sneak around. They had no stealth, and all their turrets were mid.

3 minutes into the match I believe it was 150-75 ish them. By the time tranq had popped they had barely increased that score and we had tripled ours because they couldn’t get stillness and we already had people on the side points for when they got tranq. One thing people need to understand, is yes you can play off three points. But if some turret jackhole has a meatgrinder set up on one point you don’t have to go in there. Turret engis, are the ultimate noob/pug killer.

I think they should be nerfed only because they make new players playing any other clkittene their life, and they make absolutely terrible players think they are good with out making them learn the mechanics of PvP/the game in general.