Guild Wars 2

Because mesmers have so many unblockable skills

Ross Biddle.2367:

jportell.2197:

Indrea.7803:

Neptune.2570:

WTS finals, 20 players, all classes represented…. except Mesmer. This thread has never been more relevant.

There was one Mesmer, supecutie , played for 2 matches but after changed for a thief…
Really a terrible situation for Mesmers in tpvp, even necromancers and rangers were in a better situation during WTS.

Hell even in regular tpvp matches. I see mesmers maybe once every 10 matches in ranked (aside from me). And when I do they are usually from OMFG.

Then I proceeded to interrupt the hell out of him :p

After i blew up every other person on your team and portal stomped your necro in the middle of a team fight but yes. Your onterrupts were annoying.

Indrea.7803:

Neptune.2570:

WTS finals, 20 players, all classes represented…. except Mesmer. This thread has never been more relevant.

There was one Mesmer, supecutie , played for 2 matches but after changed for a thief…
Really a terrible situation for Mesmers in tpvp, even necromancers and rangers were in a better situation during WTS.

Hell even in regular tpvp matches. I see mesmers maybe once every 10 matches in ranked (aside from me). And when I do they are usually from OMFG.

SobeSoul.6910:

Depends on what node the 1v3 occurs on. You can troll waterfall and henge on a few classes for a length of time that your team should be able to win a fight elsewhere.

I have legitimately won a couple 1v3s. Don’t ask how. I still don’t understand. That should never happen no matter what the other people are running. I have seen Ostrich Eggs do it on his stream a few times.

But, yeah, a lot of players don’t understand on knowing when they should disengage a fight.

I can understand doing it on a node that you own in order to just try and keep it contested a little longer. But a 5v3 with a lich in play, your downed state contestion of the node will mean jack all with how fast you will die after.

To know when to leave a kitten fight… Seriously, noone I don’t care how good you are or how good you think you are, is going to win a 1v3 or a 1v4, or even last long enough for that outmanned fight to mean jack all.

Earlier today I had a ranger rage at me for bailing on the mid fight at foefire and full capping their home point, then taking a portal back mid and decapping it when the other team sent all of their players to deal with me.

I left the mid fight because

• We had 2 people that pushed far at the start and failed

• We had 3 people successfully defend a home point push from the opposing team (we didn’t kill any of them just pushed them off node.)

• Once we got to mid the 3 people that wiped our team far, and the two people that pushed our home were mid.

• One of them went lich, so I dropped a port mass invised and full capped far, bam we had a two cap in our favor.

Naturally the other two people that were in the mid fight stayed there, died and then raged at me for leaving the mid fight.

Seriously people it is OKAY to run from a fight the time it takes to reset combat/escape a fight or rotate to another node is much shorter than downed/bleed+respawn.

Well I guess it depends. Mesmer is considered borderline/not-meta at all. So I guess you could say I never play the meta. However if you are going off of what is “meta” for mesmers I am a hardcore shatter mes fan, and always will be. So I never play the meta but I always play the meta.

Lets just say I never get the daily because I only play mesmer. so yeah… Dailies promote bad play and definitely promote lopsided matches.

takatsu.9416:

What is least played is reserved for the special and the elite :P I am proud of being the least played class – even though it all seems pretty easy and second-nature to me xD Sometimes it’s all about play style, none of the other classes really did it for me. The satisfaction of all the crazy finger work and mobility and besting your opponents is just ahhhhh

Best response to this thread! And that is why mesmers are preps Jim Carrey Voice FABULOUSSSSSSSSSS!

Supreme.3164:

jportell.2197:

Miltek.2104:

The problem isn’t existing classes but meta builds.
Celestial is little overpowered ATM.

And anet is clearly going to nerf the cele amulet amirite? /sarcasm.

And your “favourite” team just got rekt despite using celestial godlike builds( well you think they are)..as @ArrDee say : “Get good son”

-Edit-oRNG had like 2x zerker amulet?! O_O LOOOOOL, “get good son”

Oh and how many celestial builds were on the team that “rekt” them? The SAME NUMBER YOU SAY?! OH WOW how crazy!

Miltek.2104:

The problem isn’t existing classes but meta builds.
Celestial is little overpowered ATM.

And anet is clearly going to nerf the cele amulet amirite? /sarcasm.

Levetty.1279:

As I constantly point out, anytime somebody tries to start a conversation about the weaknesses of the Mesmer class and the poor way in which the balance team have handled the class somebody always comes in to tell us stories about how they can take on entire enemy zergs or 1v1 thiefs with no traits.

Very tiring.

This right here, people keep saying how they have these amazing builds that are gonna be the meta, completely ignoring why mesmers are taken in the first place. People completely ignore that the only viable build mesmers have, is hard countered by well any thief build. They then point out how they have an amazing build that completely wrecks thieves. Well what does it do besides that? Does it match necros/engis condi pressure? Does it have the sustain of any of the other classes? How is it mobility wise? Does it even have portal? What about boon removal?

Then it’s clear that this amazing gonna be meta build is good for one thing, countering thieves, and nothing else.

To me it’s just frustrating to see multiples of some classes in big events like the WTS finals, yet no mesmers or rangers. (Frustrating for both classes to be sure.)

yolo swaggins.2570:

jportell.2197:

The biggest kitten flipping hard counter in this entire kitten game, is S/d Thief vs. Mesmer. Everyone knows it but none of the thieves think it’s true. Every single tournament when a thief goes into a mesmer first thing the kitten shoutcaster says “mesmer at a huge disadvantage in this fight”

The biggest hardcounter in this game is a goodplayer using a meta build vs a bad player using nothing. Just saying.

I’m not referencing that. A good mesmer destroys a bad thief anyday. However a mesmer and a thief of equal skill facing each other using meta builds puts the thief at a guaranteed advantage. So yeah, just no.

The biggest kitten flipping hard counter in this entire kitten game, is S/d Thief vs. Mesmer. Everyone knows it but none of the thieves think it’s true. Every single tournament when a thief goes into a mesmer first thing the kitten shoutcaster says “mesmer at a huge disadvantage in this fight”

Wolfey.3407:

I think it’s a mutual agreement with everyone that this daily has to go.

Question that still remains, is what should replace these?

With the class daily’s gone, you have two holes in the daily rotation.

Just tossing a couple out there to think about:
1) Daily Medic (Revive 3 people in pvp)
2) Daily Specialist (Obtain points via special means [killing svanir/ sky hammer/ scoring an orb/ using the trebuchet])

I think it should be back to daily kills, daily objective neutralizer, daily objective defender, daily objective assaulter. Any combination of those or randomly those per day.

Me Games Ma.8426:

yay ppl here are talking about build diversity!

How did anet give diversity to us mesmers?

• removed glamour builds
• removed retalitation phantasm builds
• nerfed down Power Block after seeing that mesmers were actually able to play a new build
• kicked Illusionists Celerity to higher tiers (adept->grandmaster->master) Yes this helped build diversity a lot!

hype!

Right?!

I can think of at least two build per class that have been viable for high end pvp since launch, except mesmer.

StickerHappy.8052:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Vieux P.1238:

Nerfing the thief? no! Tweaking it to be adjusted.. Yes! But I would love to see mesmer retooned.. tweaked. at least not go down on the first 3 hits of the thief spams.

Then the real problem is lack of build diversity. =P An option to spec tankier while still being effective is needed. Hopefully the expansion will remedy this.

I really beg to disagree with the diversity thing.

Its either:

1.) People still won’t hop off the meta train/popular builds and try to experiment. (i.e. zerk CI build vs A Condi CI build)

2.) When People experiment, they don’t a lot enough time to test builds leaving the potential of a build greatly undiscovered.

3.) When people post/share their builds on the forums, the so called “pros” shoot them
down immediately without them testing the build itself, making the poster discouraged. (i.e. Cele builds)

4.) I still don’t understand behind the idealogy of meta, its not as if 95% of the mesmer population will play top tier pvp.

There are a lot of revamps/fixes/ tweaks that the mesmer class needs which also limits diversity, but the main thing I see is the lack of courage to experiment.

1.) People aren’t hopping off the meta train/popular builds, because every new trait/build that Anet has given us to make other builds besides the meta shatter (PvP), is overall lack luster when it is compared to other classes doing the same build. The big standout here is halting strike. Sure interrupt builds are kinda creeping in, but aoe interrupting is still something that other classes can do better (Slick shoes anyone?).

2. Even our condi builds become weaker and weaker the bigger the team fight gets because we don’t put out enough cover conditions to keep what we have from getting cleansed. So once again other classes (Necro/engi) do it better. So yes people experiment extensively, but usually it winds up being the same conclusion.

3. Builds aren’t shot down immediately, however it is well known that a shatter build played by an amazing player will out perform most other builds when played by that same player.

People aren’t afraid to experiment with builds, its’ just that when we do, the same conclusion is usually drawn. For this game mode (speaking from pvp only), shatter is king. Even then the reason that mesmers are still taken in pvp is more so for portal than their spike damage.

Highlie.7641:

Every thief main comes to this conclusion eventually. Isn’t it sad…
You will leave, then come back (nothing out atm) but those feelings will remain

Imagine how mesmer mains feel >.<

Booms.2594:

gg for destroying mesmer and guardians then.

Sigh… Hopefully the specializations are worth it.

400-600…. I can’t even. The leaderboards are just a grind. If you are not going past 400-600 then you really shouldn’t be making statements like this. Also, the best way to tell how something is balanced is look at the top competitive teams and see if they are stacking a certain class or more so a specific build. If you see several of one build/class in an ESL weekly Or better yet WTS chances are it is overpowered because these teams while they are good they take the most overpowered classes in the game and play them, because they know that stat wise nothing is better.

I would say it is an overarching issue of mesmer being nerfed too heavily in the past, and other classes being buffed in a meaningful way where mesmers get “cute” new tricks here and there lookin at you disrsuptors sustaintment!

The cele meta needs gutted (or at least the classes that make the most use of the amulet.) Or mesmers ability to meaninfully tank damage needs brought up.

The biggest slap in the face of all time was when Anet said a long long long time ago when the broadcasts were called “State of the Game” and Josh Davis was a lowly shoutcaster instead of an Anet employee, that they want both warriors and mesmers to be weak to conditions.

They greatly buffed warriors sustainability against conditions to where now a bunker guardian can’t even cleanse conditions as fast as a warrior, and mesmers got the mantra cleanse to be AOE… even though by design we shouldn’t be in an area where we are in said AOE. Anet needs to seriously look at our ability to cleanse conditions and handle that.

shimmerless.4560:

These forums are always good for a laugh.

I actually got called a scrub by a pew pew ranger after I portal stomped him >.<

Ross Biddle.2367:

Dondagora.9645:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Fay.2357:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

So lets see who comes closest to actually predicting what we get. (More details to come soon in OMFG guild message. Could turn this into a wager, but can’t do that on the forums)

Oh, this is a good idea! I wonder what chaos thought of for traits…

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Reduce Shield CDs by 20%

smh

I couldn’t even think of a cool secondary effect like focus/torch/pistol xD

Lets see what you come up with chief!

Activating a shield skill grants a random, useless boon.

Or if we want to be a big dreamer: Activating a shield skill grants X stacks of stability for Y seconds.

Shield skills cause chill? Could work.

Wait wait wait, I got it.

Shield skills work on release.

Can I get a high5? High5’s all ’round.

AMEN!

DaShi.1368:

Which is entirely subjective. Should Anet remove all the builds I don’t find fun to fight against?

It’s entirely subjective but I’m nowhere near the only person that thinks that. It’s pretty shared that yes, while they can be dealt with, it is an unfun spec to play or fight against, and is carried by AI (more so than any other AI based build in the game.)

Ariete.6509:

Well think about it: the shield doesn’t necessarily mean off hand weapon. Maybe Mesmer use it their main hand leaving the offhand open to say a pistol, Bang! You’re a Riot police officer.

Lawl. That is too funny. I think that we will get a new main hand. I know people are screaming for a mainhand pistol, buttt Axe anyone?

Arantheal.7396:

I smell a l2p issue in here…
Smells delicious…
So salty…

I can deal with turrets just fine. Doesnt make it fun to fight against.

SobeSoul.6910:

Doesn’t work if people are duo queueing, and you can thank class dailies.

^Anet needs to flipping remove this asap.

Fay.2357:

jportell.2197:

You should pretty much just get rid of the soldiers amulet completely, it doesn’t work on mesmer and never has really.

This is a reasonably correct statement, but for all the wrong reasons.

jportell.2197:

We either go full burst, or full condi. Mesmers due to their terrible, and I mean terrible means of dealing with conditions on themselves let alone a group are not good using soldiers amulet for sure.

Mesmers have some of the very strongest condition removal in the game. You just simply have to choose to take it. It can sometimes be awkward to take condition removal on a mesmer, but saying that mesmers are terrible at it is just completely disingenuous.

Soldiers amulet doesn’t work well on anyone because it simply doesn’t have the necessary stats for doing damage. Power alone doesn’t do anything; you need power, precision, and ferocity. You’ll see tanky builds using the celestial amulet for this reason: it provides power, precision, ferocity, and stats for condition damage as well.

Soldiers is really only used in situations where conditions don’t work, you need to be really tanky, and your damage output isn’t the most important thing. This basically means WvW frontline zerging.

Really, mesmers don’t have nearly close to as strong the condi removal of the top 3 classes in the game. Simply because mesmers don’t have it in a healing skill or a weapon skill. We have to trait, or take a utility skill to get any sort of condi clear and in ranked matches that just isn’t possible. To get it from a weapon you have to TRAIT for torch which even though it is only used right now for the stealth/blast finisher to set up shatters.

Greasy.7609:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpRtVqxQNMrNiqBhyu8FSGgFU6OsteC-TZhAABUcFAC4BAQ4+DoVGAgDCAA

well I’ve taken your advice and maybe this build works better but i’m still sticking with the torch major trait.

You should pretty much just get rid of the soldiers amulet completely, it doesn’t work on mesmer and never has really.

We either go full burst, or full condi. Mesmers due to their terrible, and I mean terrible means of dealing with conditions on themselves let alone a group are not good using soldiers amulet for sure. Basically in a team mode, you will be able to survive for a bit, but you will not be doing much in the way of supporting your team.

DaShi.1368:

Which tournament is doing this?

AG weekly disallowed any stacking of turret engineers. One turret engi per team.

I think the build is mindless, easy and has no purpose in flipping pvp.

After watching the Gameplay of strong hold i don’t think revenant will be as over powered as people are thinking. It’s hammer auto attacks hit for 400 damage overall. That’s kinda laughable if we’re gonna be honest.

Graendall.4765:

Ah the younger generations of d/d eles…what does it mateer if celestial is OP.It just brings out all of our aspects.Its what we are supposed to do.Control the kittening elements.

If you think D/D Cantrip ele didn’t work before Celestial i am telling you now..you think wrong.Its a good build it works.Its been nerfed and nerfed.No need for more debating.Instead of asking if its OP ask the devs if they plan on changing traits in other lines so Fire(for example) can be used more.

D/D ele was ALWAYS OP in 1vs1 or more in the hands of a good player.It is known.

Someone tried telling me the game came out in Spring 2013, when I referenced D/D ele OPNess in winter 2012-13.

Fay.2357:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Screw hybrid builds just go full condi in PvE. Don’t believe me? I think there is a video somek*tten of a single mesmer with torment runes/sigils+torment on shatter that 100-0’d Nokk in SE 1 in 2 seconds.

Because buggy behavior is obviously something that we should base builds around?

Full conditions is a viable and effective build for soloing dungeons. It’s absolute trash in a party.

Oh >.< I didn’t know it was a bug lmao nevermind then!

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Screw hybrid builds just go full condi in PvE. Don’t believe me? I think there is a video somek*tten of a single mesmer with torment runes/sigils+torment on shatter that 100-0’d Nokk in SE 1 in 2 seconds.

Cynz.9437:

it is not hard to lose 4v5 when entire team is chasing 1 guy on the beach in the forest half of the match……

Kinda like I jsut had a 4v5 with two thieves none of which were plus oneing fights, and all 4 of the members of my team bumrushed home, just to handle one guy. I swear if half the population knew what a proper flipping rotation was, this games pvp would be 100000x better.

Vieux P.1238:

Traits

. Beneficial Dissipation- Each time an illusion is killed you get some healing & remove 1 condition.

HA! I wish.

Fay.2357:

jportell.2197:

So yes it would be a great QOL change to have a PROPER range indicator on portal, but we can make it work. Just gotta play it smart. Portal is why I still contend mesmer is the hardest class in the game to master.

This is so absolutely misleading. Yes, portal is really difficult to use. No, using portal effectively does not mean you are skilled.

Portal is difficult to use because it is lacking basic functionality. In order to use it effectively, you simply have to memorize a whole bunch of random locations. Is it difficult to memorize a whole bunch of random locations? Sorta I guess. Is it skilled to memorize a whole bunch of random locations? No.

You misread. Knowing the locations does not mean skill. Knowing when to drop your port when to use it again and where it is most necessary IS skilled.

Zenith.7301:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Wow… Much salt. Such wow.

• In pvp mesmer is great in team fights, it’s just as of late I see more mesmers running condi (condi mesmer is not good in teamfights.), or a phantasm build also not good in teamfights.

• Our AOE shatter damage in PVP is great, once again most mesmers mess up their shatter combos or they try to run into the middle of a team fight to get that extra little shatter from illusionary persona (lel).

• You are vastly underestimating portal on a mesmer. Especially when playing solo I have had portal save team fights or pull the most massive jukes ever for instance no more than 5 minutes ago I had two guardians and a warrior chasing me on keep at forest I knew I wasn’t gonna cap the point so I dropped a port. They chased me all the way to the beach where they downed me, our warrior ressed me we ported back out to keep where it was a free cap. And since the guardians used ALL their mobility to chase me. We had a full cap before the next team fight. Do not try and say mesmer is bad for anything besides small skirmishes. Because that is wrong.

• Next point-Guardians CANNOT hold a higher reflect uptime than mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. In PVE a mesmer can have permanent reflects guardians only actual reflect is wall of reflection, and that is not 100% uptime.

• Also why do you hate on our AOE so much? It’s really not all that bad. Mesmer may be low tier in pvp even bottom tier but that is because any half decent thief with half a decent brain can outplay the meta mesmer builds. Not too mention the current meta is pretty skewed toward condi which in general mesmers can’t deal with all that well.

• Last but not least if you look at how pvp teams are playing there are way more small skirmishes happening in matches right now than huge balls out team battles, so even if our AOE was so bad in PvP (it’s not), it is irrelevant because most fights happen in smaller skirmishes in pvp.

WvW is something i’m not gonna touch with a 10 foot pole that RossBiddle is holding, so yeah.

So full of crap, I wonder if you do high end pve at all. The only reliable reflection you have is feedback. iWarden gets killed easily in fractal 50, or if mobs move out of its range or the mob it was casted on dies, so goes the use of iwarden. You can trait curtain if you want to gut what little damage you already had though.

Guardian will protect his group with a longer lasting wall, and a spirit shield that absorbs projectiles for well over 20+ seconds. In fact, by the time the shield ends, the wall is back up.

Of course you’re not gonna touch WvW or endgame pve or open wolrd pve. Literally every point you’ve made was completely irrelevant since I had already granted mesmers only perform in skirmishes and duels (and spvp qualifies as skirmishes).

Too bad the aspects of the game that are not spvp happen to be far larger and more populated than said spvp format, and some mesmers have no interest in WvW roaming or spvp.

Mesmers are plain crap in PvE and in WvW larger scale battles they’re little more than veil/portal bots. Shatter is such laughable damage next to lava font or meteor shower let alone a couple of pistol whip cleaves or melee frontline hammer combos, and good luck with those illusions living long enough after they spawn to get a 3 clone shatter on a zerg, not that it will do much for your 6-7k iberserker hitting a group of people when it’s cd is over 10 seconds while an ele is pelting groups people with 3k fireballs left and right and 5k meteors and 4-5k ice spikes with far more frequency.

Then you sir are playing mesmer wrong. Because i regularl do fractals, and dungeons. Never do I have the issues of losing my illusions too fast. Open world pve I’ll give you. But honestly if you hate the class so much why play it?

darres.8203:

i jsut want to know if u can dodge it

Sure randomly.

darres.8203:

i’m reading up on the skill
it seems like an 2k range aoe reveal with no cast time

is that right?
seems super op

Lol the last thing people should be complaining about on rangers. Is Sick em. It is only really strong against two classes (mes/thief)

Me Games Ma.8426:

For me it’d be enough if we would get this nice tiny red bar located under each skill for our portal too.
When we stay in range we get no red bar and as soon as we leave the portal range the red bar will appear to indicate: “stop right there criminal scum…” wait wrong game. “stop, you’re out of the 5k range”

• I know this is me saying it is on the player end buttttttttt here goes. There ares some good markings on the map to help you properly place and hence use your portal. For instance you cannot portal from one side point to another on any map, however take temple for instance, you drop a port at the very bottom of the stairs leading up to your home point and you can immediately port back all the way from far point if you please.

• On forest you can go from the statue on keep all the way to the beach and back. Also dropping it in the middle of the beach gives you the fastest access to both side points.

• On khylo you can portal from the tip of your home point to the far side of the clock tower (barely), and you cannot port from one treb to the other.

So yes it would be a great QOL change to have a PROPER range indicator on portal, but we can make it work. Just gotta play it smart. Portal is why I still contend mesmer is the hardest class in the game to master.

BlackBeard.2873:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

A thief with 6 points in acrobatics and trickery will be applying massive damage from fire and air procs in 1v1 before teammates arrive, meaning the target will be lower health from random passive damage. That gives the thief an advantage they shouldn’t have because a thief build with 6 in acro and trickery should not have this much damage in the first place.

Fire/air sigil is completely and utterly broken beyond belief because it gives access to one of the highest dps in the entire game with random procs that have no tell to builds that are NOT supposed to have access to it.

A warrior (shoutbow, axe, hambow, axe/horn) will be getting guarenteed crit damage on their high damage skills in 1v1 before teammates arrive, meaning the target will be lower health from taking crit damage. That gives warriors an advantage they shouldn’t have when running with soldier or celestial amulet, which have inherently low crit rate in the first place.

Intelligence sigil is completely and utterly broken beyond belief because it gives access to 100% crit chance on the highest single hit damage in the entire game to classes that are NOT supposed to have access to it.

About fire/air – agreed. That is one thing people have been complaining needs a fix since before the change was even rolled out. This is a mechanic that lacks counterplay, its automatic damage.

Intelligence, while very strong, is a bit different. For one, it is 3 hits that crit, and those hits can be dodged. Intelligence either causes a low damage attack to crit (and who cares then?) or a high-damage attack to do more damage (and which you should have been focused on dodging in the first place). This one actually has some counterplay, imo.

Doom can really only be random-dodged on ele (and to a lesser extent warrior). As Chaith pointed out, you can miss many doom procs agaisnt S/D thief (who spends like 60% of its time in evade frames when its not out of range), but that is due to having MANY random dodges put together.

So…just because air/fire is broken, it doesn’t mean doom can’t be too! I say we fix them both (and other mechanics that lack counterplay)!!!

Kinda like Incendiary Powder, Spinal Shivers Procs, Rune of the nightmare fear, etc. I mean if we are gonna talk about on or two random procs we should talk about them all.

rotten.9753:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Personally I think its a combination of things.

1: The ele is able to stack allot of might stacks. (this effectively counters the lower condi/power of celestial.

2: The ele has allot more incentive to swap attunement then allot of classes have incentive to weapon swap.

3: Several of the on swap & on crit sigils are a bit to powerful when used in conjunction with each other.

4: Celestial stats in Spvp are just a bit high.

This leads to things becoming a bit too powerful.

Personally I would reduce celestial stats just a bit, then reduce the duration of geomancy bleeds a bit, reduce doom sigil poison by 1 second, then finally make blasts on fire fields give 2 stacks of might instead of 3.

This reduces the effects of some certain builds slightly without destroying them or others.

It’s funny because all those 4 points apply to shoutbows in the same manner.

Except shoutbows are wayy less likely to kill someone as fast as eles, and they still don’t match an eles condi clear overall.

Zenith.7301:

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Wow… Much salt. Such wow.

• In pvp mesmer is great in team fights, it’s just as of late I see more mesmers running condi (condi mesmer is not good in teamfights.), or a phantasm build also not good in teamfights.

• Our AOE shatter damage in PVP is great, once again most mesmers mess up their shatter combos or they try to run into the middle of a team fight to get that extra little shatter from illusionary persona (lel).

• You are vastly underestimating portal on a mesmer. Especially when playing solo I have had portal save team fights or pull the most massive jukes ever for instance no more than 5 minutes ago I had two guardians and a warrior chasing me on keep at forest I knew I wasn’t gonna cap the point so I dropped a port. They chased me all the way to the beach where they downed me, our warrior ressed me we ported back out to keep where it was a free cap. And since the guardians used ALL their mobility to chase me. We had a full cap before the next team fight. Do not try and say mesmer is bad for anything besides small skirmishes. Because that is wrong.

• Next point-Guardians CANNOT hold a higher reflect uptime than mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. In PVE a mesmer can have permanent reflects guardians only actual reflect is wall of reflection, and that is not 100% uptime.

• Also why do you hate on our AOE so much? It’s really not all that bad. Mesmer may be low tier in pvp even bottom tier but that is because any half decent thief with half a decent brain can outplay the meta mesmer builds. Not too mention the current meta is pretty skewed toward condi which in general mesmers can’t deal with all that well.

• Last but not least if you look at how pvp teams are playing there are way more small skirmishes happening in matches right now than huge balls out team battles, so even if our AOE was so bad in PvP (it’s not), it is irrelevant because most fights happen in smaller skirmishes in pvp.

WvW is something i’m not gonna touch with a 10 foot pole that RossBiddle is holding, so yeah.

Kaleban.9834:

jportell.2197:

You cmearly didnt play pvp in late 2012/early 2013. D/d cleric bunker eles were rushing far and holding the point 1v3 while never dying and if they got low they just rtld off point and healed to full. Now instead of a cleric amulet doing no damage. Its a celestial with nearly the same healing and more might plus more evade up time. Oh yes d/d eles were very dominant before.

So let me get this straight. In your mind, a class that sacrifices all damage to go “bunker” wearing a cleric amulet guaranteeing abysmal damage and overall designed to rush a point and hold it while their team catches up, shouldn’t be able to and should just succumb to defeat in a 1v1?

Then explain what the point of the cleric amulet is, much less capture and hold point mechanics, and why other professions designed to bunker and hold aren’t subjected to as much vilification as the Elementalist? Why is a Guardian or Engineer designed to bunker “working as intended” but an Elementalist doing the EXACT SAME THING is now OP? Keep in mind that both the Guard and Engy likely are both more survivable and capable of dishing out more damage with a greater margin for error than a comparable Ele.

Its pretty clear to me that you don’t play PvP, or don’t understand the mechanics behind it. There has never been an Elepocalypse dominating PvP, there have been good, organized teams showcasing the Ele’s ability in top tier play, but these are the 1% of the 1%. The Ele has never had the PvP pug-ability of the HS Thief or PU Mesmers, and people that say otherwise just want to keep their free, easy kills.

There actually was an elepocalypse. It’s called April 2014. The d/d bunker ele was annoying. But it could be outrotated and given enough time killed. The celestial can outsustain and still put out enough pressure to where you are running around trying to live.

Drennon.7190:

Spooko.5436:

matchmaking is now at the best it has ever been, I don’t even miss soloq

…can’t tell if serious?

Because I know who said it. He is trolling :P Behave SPOOK!

rotten.9753:

jportell.2197:

So you think the nerfs need to happen specifically to the d/d weaponset. Okay here goes

• Burning speed-no longer an evade, one of their hardest hitting skills on this weaponset should be interruptable barring them having stability or something of the sort.

• Frozen Burst- No longer a blast finisher

• Cone of Cold-Reduced the amount of healing done with this skill

• Drakes Breath- Reduced the burning duration (again.)

• Elemental shielding- Increase the duration to 10s but move it up to master tier. This may affect staff eles but nowhere near as much as d/d eles.

The first two of those changes are what brought ele from the bottom tier to the top. If you reverse them and nerf eles more, they will be even worse than before.

About burning speed, I believe whirlwind attack is even more powerful yet no one cries about it. You can still abuse walls with it despite nerfs to all fire trail skills. And burning speed is easily dodgeable, unlike whirlwind attack from point blank.

Your suggestion will just overnerf that weapon set, anet should shave gradually (obviously more often than now) instead of doing knee jerk nerfs.

Actually before you can say what brought eles up from garbage tier you need to know why they were sent there (ie nerfs that sent them to bottom tier), which was a massive nerf to signet of restoration and the over the top nerf to cleansing water which gave it an icd (remove a condition when applying regeneration to yourself). Burning speed and ftozen burst were never on anyones radar. Also while whirlwind attack can still abuse walls guess how many gs warriors are in PvP. Just saying.

kdaddy.5431:

Is everyone allergic to not just doing what they want back in the old solo ques? Like not zerging points? Having 2 cap points and yet all of your team mates run to the 1 red point where 2 of there players are waiting, seriously where do these solo que people come from?

Except now if you try to solo or duo in ranked que you get the same mentality of the old soloque. But at least then you know there was equal chance of both teams getting morons, now lots more premades.

Lawful.5314:

jportell.2197:

Lawful.5314:

How about, let the Elementalist feel like the dominant strong class for once, in its entire misserable lifespan? lol

Elementalist has WAYYYY Too low HP, yes its a cloth class, but that doesn’t justify having 16k HP while having THIS kind of damage in PvP, if we can attain something alike 25k HP, while retaining all our current tankyness and damage, then i would consider the class way more balanced than ever.

Lol @ the dominant for once…..

What? being able to just barely overheal the damage from two nabs, while holding a point, while not being able to kill either of them, doesn’t count as being very fun to play or dominant in my book.

You cmearly didnt play pvp in late 2012/early 2013. D/d cleric bunker eles were rushing far and holding the point 1v3 while never dying and if they got low they just rtld off point and healed to full. Now instead of a cleric amulet doing no damage. Its a celestial with nearly the same healing and more might plus more evade up time. Oh yes d/d eles were very dominant before.

Gotta love engi days.