Direct Qoutes from Xeno: Armor does not have diminishing return
“The previous post suggest every 100 toughness reduces damage taken by approximately 3.4%; ignoring armour ignoring damage sources and healing, this is equivalent to a 3.4% increase in health.
If this is true then +500 toughness will reduce damage by a bit over 18% (1.034 ^ 5 ~= 1.182)
Are you saying this is not correct and that the percentage reduction decreases? I can’t read the OP in the linked thread, but glancing through the rest seems to support my initial though.
In this case, armour increases do not suffer from diminishing returns. Sure, the raw amount of damage negated appears to decrease, but since the rate is constant. In effect, I will always survive 18% longer with +500 toughness, no matter what my initial toughness is. This is the same as in Guild Wars 1, just with more ridiculous numbers.
Vitality on the other hand, rapidly suffers diminishing returns with this perspective. Since the relative increase depends on your starting amount, increases in vitality start off as a tremendous benefit and rapidly decline. After a while, toughness simply wins out and it’s easy to calculate that value.
( X + 1000 ) / X < 1.034 -> X > 29500 (approximately from memory)
The Necro and Warrior start closest to this value and so for them, extra toughness is likely to be more beneficial. The Ele and Guardian have low starting health and are much more likely to benefit from boosting their Vitality (particularly the Guardian, who already has high Defense).
Sure, I’ve ignored conditions and healing, and obviously this’ll have an influence. You’re not going to totally ignore toughness until your health hits 29.5k; I don’t even know if that number is reasonably reachable (Necros and Wars start at ~18k – you’re looking at +10k health, i.e. 1000 vit). Then of course, healing plays to Toughness over Vitality. Toughness only starts looking strong when you’re able to heal a lot."
“34 damage being ignored doesn’t correspond to a reduction factor of 1.034, or a relative health increase of 1.034.
It actually corresponds to a reduction by a factor of 1000/966 ~= 1.0351, say 3.5%
The difference between me and the post above is that I’m dividing by this factor, whereas he’s multiplying by its inverse (which is simply 1-0.034 = 0.966)
I realised this shortly after making my previous post, but wasn’t in a position to alter it.
Vain is completely correct and I made a small (but important) mistake that, whilst actually only changes the outcome slightly, means interpreting it isn’t obvious (since it’s logically contradictory)."
“I calculated (slightly incorrectly) a factor, or more strictly a divisor. You divide by the number I calculate; divide by 1.9 and you notice you’ve reduced the damage down to nearly 50%
Let’s start again:
Assuming the original assertion, that every increase of 100 toughness corresponds to a damage being reduced to 96.6% of what it would be initially.
It would be inconsistent for this to work additively; this statement does not care what you initial toughness is!
Suppose I started at X toughness and took some damage.
I then add 100 and take 96.6% of that damage.
If I add another 100 I would expect to take 96.6% of the damage I took in the step above. If I actually took 93.2% of the damage I took in the first step, the reduction between steps would not be consistent.
Or, perhaps more convincingly, if it was additive:
3.4% multiplied by 30 is over 100% If after +3000 toughness you’re negating 100% of the damage, clearly something has gone very wrong. And of course, what are you adding +3000 to? "
(edited by jul.7602)
The problem is, Crit Damage is the most optimal choice in terms of stat point costs for Ascended trinkets. So I’d rather go with Cavalier Ascended trinkets, Soldiers/Sentinels everywhere else, and completely sacrifice Precision, which you can get from Traits, Sigils, Boons, and Buffs instead.
Yep, well aware of how crit damage optimisation works. I think you are missing my point (which admittedly I didn’t make very well
). What I am saying is you that when you try to put crit damage and precision into a tank build you are turning it into a balanced build. That is the answer to your question of “why are T1 warriors are tougher than me?”. Answer: You are doing balanced (partial tank) and they are doing full tank.
Try this: http://goo.gl/cojkHW
(also use a bloodlust stacking weapon)Not sure how accurate intothemists.com is (and I’m not near my gw2 PC) – but that ends up with:
Health 28712
Armor 3290
Attack 3423 (not including Bloodlust stacking)
Critical Hit 4% (i.e., zero extra precision)
Critical Damage 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration (self) -65%
Stun Duration (self) -30%
Healing Power 300
Boon Duration 10%
Burst Recharge 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration 15% (incidental)Apart from traits, everything involves stacking power, toughness and vitality in some form – then the build focuses on stun reduction, conditon reduction and dodging.
You have 3 stunbreakers (my favourite is Stomp), banner for rezzing the downies and buffing your team mates, 20% stability uptime and lots of dodges. F1 skill and weapon swap give 50% endurance return (extra dodge) and the two stances are giving you 8 seconds vigor. You have Blast finishers (stomp, warhorn 5) for water and lightning fields.
Sigil of Restoration is constantly healing you while people in the enemy zerg (that you have tagged) are being finished. That sigil keeps your sustain really high.
I haven’t had time to test the Healing Signet after the buff so I’m not sure if that would be a better replacement for Healing Surge.
This really depends on guild comp. If you have, say, 5 Wars and 5 Guards in your frontline, all running Soldier Runes, that’s more effective condition removal than Melandru + Lemongrass Poultry Soup.
But if on the other hand you run solo a lot, or with pug/militia zergs, or guild groups that don’t require specific builds, then Melandru + Soup + Dogged March + Cleansing Ire is a better option for dealing with conditions.
I think shout heal builds are better in PUG groups to keep the PUGs from dying. Guildies generally can look after themselves.
Melandru does stun duration reductions in addition to conditon reduction. In a T1 zerg ball the amount of warriors doing Earthshaker is usually off the scale. Reducing those stuns to nearly nothing makes a big difference to not getting steam rolled by the hammer train.
Even if you ignore the stun duration, then look at what you give up for that condition cleansing – it will be 1 to 3 utility slots taken up with shouts (depending on how many shouts each warrior runs) on all 5 of your guild’s warriors. Running Melandru means you can now get rid of your shout utility skill(s) and shout traits and put something better than a shout in its place.
You can also replace the shout traits with something useful.
Imagine your 5 condi clearing warriors now running Stomp.
Bodies flying everywhere while they use perma vigor to dodge the hammer train.
The difference between guild members and pugs is the coordination (voice chat) and synergy, skill between all players is relative unless you have some sort of solid proof that pugs aren’t as individually skilled as a guild groups.
-Stun duration% and heavy stun chains are completely irrelevant. Thats what stability is for. But again, you contradict yourself in your last statement by saying your dodging it completely. If you can so easily dodge CC trains, than you already proved that -stun duration wasn’t needed in the first place.
Shouts are used for immediate support and buffs. You’re neglecting the fact that all of our shouts are doing far more than removing an extra condition, they are fearing the enemies, and granting might and fury. We don’t give anything up for condition cleansing. With or without traits and soldiers, shouts are already good, soldiers and traits makes them significantly better. Essantially you don’t sacrifice anything.
You’re also completely exaggerating the difference between +25% condition duration and ignoring the fact that soldier runes affect 4 other people and show more synergy in groups.
Instant AoE cleansing>25% condition duration.
