Guild Wars 2

Supreme.3164:

I don’t see the logic behind this massive sustain overbuff on war while at the same time you nerf the sustain of others

Let’s try this time to have an “unbiased” discussion, there is too many stacked traits on warrior…and I’d rather don’t talk about it. I want to ignore all of it, let them have it all!….but pls just take a look at Rousing Resilience.

A really broken combo on war atm is Rousing Resilience + Outrage

By combining the two a warrior can:

-Increase his toughness by 1000
-Stunbreaker
-Gain adrenaline
-Heal for over 2.5k health at 0 healing power

And this every 10s..I’m not even considering : Healing Signet; Adrenaline health; Dead or alive; blocks; reflects tc etc

Now I’m not asking to destroy war sustain, we just need an ICD on Rousing Resilience; especially now that you buffed war endure pain, allowing them to chain both the trait and utility

you wanted to have a discussion about it so lets just try to have a logically debate about it.

1- Its the 3rd best option trait wise out of 3

2- To be stunned you need no stability, you are playing with a light saber at this very moment

3- A build with this trait, with a utility rage skill and endure the pain requires a high level of skill to play at a high level. Heck for people starting with warrior and not using longbow i always suggest the stance trait for longer up time. Its a safer trait to take.

4- You are talking about nerfing a trait and 1 rage skill that go hand in hand with one another. There is no need to play either if both are nerfed.

This is a silly topic thread but since i had 10 minutes i thought i play along.

emkelly.2371:

Thats alot of words to say, “Elites are the only way to play”. and you know what/ your not wrong that Elites are over powered, although i would not say so much overpowered as horribly designed to begin with. that horrible design makes them overpowered, yes, but no one is disputing that. What we are saying is that you can play Warrior as vanilla, and succeed. Sure, you will not have as easy a time of it as with a berserker, but that is not what the OP asked. save your “elites are OP” talks for another thread, trust me i’ll be on your side then. but as far a vanilla warrior being viable, Warrior is about the only case in the game right now where the vanilla build is still a viable option. Its not as strong, but it can still get the job done. just remember it plays differently than berserker.

Im sorry i completely disagree with you using the words “viable options”.

If you want to say fun, heck yes. Core warrior is 5X more fun then beserker warrior. In my guild hall with just 1-2 different people we will buy and put on green gear and do duels. I still play sword/sword longbow and mace/shield- axe/axe builds. Even the old kill shot build is fun.

But please just as a example if i may take a pole and be honest. Who here can run a vanilla/core GW2 build in ranked to try and move up tiers/divisions and say i will be successful with this build against people i normally play?

The OP of this thread was asking for good builds. I assume to play ranked, if he wanted to play unranked i would assume fun builds. I wont let other people lie or mince words to say warrior is a great vanilla class.

So once again i disagree with it being “viable” but extremely fun it could be.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I can say from an s/d main thief I am more worried about vanilla power warriors (in wvw) because a berserker warrior will pop the mode and I can just bugger of and kiye, vanilla warrior plays differently and can catch you out.

lol what? You know the F2 button works again in like 8 seconds right?

How will this work? if im right you give me 5g in game?

I bet you that none of the NA teams win a series.

I bet you that Never Lucky and Team PZ will get 1 win between both of them.

I bet you this is the first land event where someone gets serious hand crapping issues and a sub will finally get into the finals.

Your both incorrect, i recently saw chaith playing alot of pistol/shield in ranked and unranked. He actually got my guild member to try and play pistol-pistol and pistol/shield engy.

Phanta when you see is running all sorts of crap, these are 2 players from ESL who are not always running META builds. Heck in season 1-2-3 i saw tarcis in unranked playing rifle warrior.

All that is besides the point, if this individual runs a vanilla build vs someone of equal skill who is running a HOT spec build. More then likely they will lose, they will be weaker in most areas of the game.

Team fights/ 1 vs 1/ speed and fighting off points will be less viable. In the OP topic he said “I know that hammer/gs is still somewhat viable” so at his level the old meta build is somewhat viable.

In there own words so the other 2 builds are 1 vs 1 mace/shield – Greatsword and shoutbow. Thats it, literally these 2 other builds are the only other options he can play that will be “somewhat viable” as a vanilla warrior.

Seriously, if he runs into lets just say a MM necro with 1 shout and 4 minions with reaper form, is he gonna win? How about the Dh build/druid/rev basic builds, these meta builds are meant to take high DPS and sustain them while putting out damage. How will he beat them?

What i consider viable is can they compete? This person doesnt have to win the fight but can the extend it? Can they create pressure in a 2 vs 1? Can they rotate off point quickly and hold off a 1 vs 1 with some skills on CD?

Webster definition of viable- capable of succeeding

So against players of this person skill level, equal abilities. What will his vanilla build do against the HOT specs which are greatly OP compared to core?

This person would have to be better then the players he is playing against to succeed with a core build.

(that is not viable, that is simply being better then the other players. I ran full trap ranger today and won 4 1 vs 1. Im running a strength-discipline-beserker warrior with GS and rifle and i won 3 1 vs 1 in my 1 match. I did those things because they were not ready for what i could bring. He is a core player try to bring the same amount of burst without getting hit as often. Please if you want to debate this further, explain your position on the word “viable”.)

Quasar.1756:

Hello all,

I’ll make this as short and painless as possible. If there was already a topic(s) dealing with these questions already, let me apologize in advance.

I wanted to ask everyone on what is their feedback on adding an option to view a player’s progression on boss kills for 10-mans. For example, {{"Player account name" has successfully killed X/9 bosses}} or something to the effect of a title that shows they cleared wings like: “Spirit Vale Liberator”/“Salvation Pass Quencher”/ “Forsaken Thicket Conqueror” etc…

I see alot of people heart-broken of being kicked from raids due to their inexperience and I’m pretty sure raid commanders want experienced players for their runs. I know there’s individuals who say they know what they are doing but it shows they don’t and it wastes everyone’s time and in-game money on foods and such.

Also, as I’ve seen a topic on here dealing with practice mode 10-mans, why not just remove the timer and if/when they kill the boss it shows their time on kill so they can make the adjustments needed on their other attempts. (maybe show their dps/condi dmg/healing….similar to the practice golems).

As stated, I can add more to further show my points, but I want to keep it as short as possible.

Just questions and if anyone has feedback(realistic/reasonable) on this, please post your replies. If anyone needs more clarification on my questions then please don’t hesitate to ask….TYVM

I find this silly,

I am in 1 guild and a PvP friend guild sells raids. The guild team that sells raids basically can 7 man all the raid bosses.

The side guild i am in just killed VG in 7 minutes with 3 minutes to spare with no food and we killed gors in 6 minutes with 1 minute left. They didnt ask anyones build and said basically that the core 5 guild members was enough.

The raid community has a real high horse say “experienced” but that doesnt mean good. Ive ran into more “EXPERIENCED” raid groups who needed carry then pugs who were completely lost so it goes both ways.

Raids are already really easy for the elite raiders, give a chance to the “experienced” players to catch up so they can carry these people coming in.

Sidenote- I saw my friends guild team beat Xera and matt with 7 guys. 2 People paid to get there few shots in and the AP for it and i was simply there because they couldnt find anyone else for a spot so i got free Xera and Matt rewards. So i find this post a bit on the high and mighty side.

emkelly.2371:

kdaddy.5431:

No

Of course against the average to below average player better players can play anything. Someone posted phanta killing people on a old school fresh air ele but that is unranked.

Against good players vanilla builds will lose 100% of the time.

I disagree. and i have already written a guide describing why.

(Edit: For clarification. there is a difference between “viable” and “the most powerful thing you can play” Saying berserker is the only viable option is like saying that 6+6 is the only way to get to 12. it is not. )

Ok fine lets play this game, 2 days ago i was in unranked. Kaypud and duck were in this game. Duck a thief from spookie and kaypud necro from PZ.

We lost but playing a vanilla warrior here is not going to work at all.

Just yesterday i had another match where on my team 2 former legendary players rocking titles and the other team with 3 players doing the same thing. Once again a vanilla warrior will not cut it with 3 of the opposing players playing DH.

When i first started this season in my first 10 games i saw paul, trackstar, tarcis and dozen more ESL players when i was in sapphire.

Ill say again, its not viable. I run full trap ranger for fun and i win alot of matches with it. Does it make it viable vs players near or above my MMR, NO.

I see alot of people running weird crap, is it viable? For a good player vs average players, yes but a average player vs another average player, NO. So with in the context of what the OP is saying and what you are saying the answer is still no.

Elegie.3620:

@kdaddy

I was a bit upset yesterday, maybe I wasn’t clear. Fighting on mid, one player goes down, and starts being cleaved. I, as a warrior, cannot revive him: too much damage around, some skills on CD, the situation is not favorable at all for a rez. The person targets me while in the fight, then says on team chat: rez. Then he explains: you have endure pain (EP).

I was flabbergasted. EP is not a magical skill that lets a warrior disregard any kind of difficult situation and rez in a breeze. Not only did he not realize the situation we were in, but he also did not even know what EP was actually doing, as he honestly admitted in the chat later.

I know I’m just an average player, this is my first league, started from amber and currently in diamond with 119/212 (56%), mostly soloQ (duoQ for the latest games). Maybe you’re right, this can be considered grinding, and I actually deserve to be paired with a player asking “rez me with endure pain” when overwhelmed in a fight. How would I even know?ANet does not publish the strength of the players, their win/loss stats and ratios…

I know this thread is not really constructive, and I apologize for this. This is just the expression of the frustration I have playing ranked PvP. I have played some PvP games before – and in most of them, I had good games, way way more than in GW2

No thats exactly how i saw it. I wasnt referring to you (playing as the warrior) but somebody else telling the warrior how to play it not knowing if you took said traits i mentioned earlier.

I tend to ramble and not stay on point so i can see where i might have confused you. Also no one knows where they stand unless they play in the ESL, i find this season to be a fair bit grindy but who am i to say. I know people who played 300 games or so to get into legendary 2 & 3 and i consider them to be pretty good players.

So all in all your venting because you dont understand the system (like many of us) and your playing with someone who is asking you to pick them up with a skill that goes on a 60 sec CD in a losing fight. Mind boggling sometimes.

Fivedawgs.4267:

kdaddy.5431:

Well if its not HOT spec line based its hard to do things.

For instance i cant even rez in rampage since they reduced its stability and now even in rampage mode i get feared,knockdown and stunned constantly.

Also we all know S4 of league is about the grind and not about how good the players are.

I respectfully disagree, most good player will reach legendary with less than 200 – 250 games. And since folks have to win 5 vs 5, i don’t see how skills are excluded?

I made it to legendary in S2 in about 125 games or so and i did in season 3 in 193 games.

No idea for season 1 but i have not tried season 4 but the OP of the thread is stating that in Diamond division a player has no idea how/when is a good time to rez.

Who knows maybe this player is great mechanically and didnt know last stand could traited on top of a last stand utility skill which probably would be needed. Or going into beserk mode which gives as much stability as rampage.

Im was only trying to point out 2 things, 1 HOT spec lines are simply just way better and a trait is just as efficient as a 15 sec elite skill. 2 that players are in diamond potentially nearing legendary who dont know the class they are playing and simply grinding at ranked.

Maybe im wrong but with the amount of ESL players im seeing in unranked (which is horse dooty because i just want my dailies) and the fact that players can play 400-500 games get into legendary and boom say what ever. Doesnt change the grind of S1/S4 imo.

No

Of course against the average to below average player better players can play anything. Someone posted phanta killing people on a old school fresh air ele but that is unranked.

Against good players vanilla builds will lose 100% of the time.

Well if its not HOT spec line based its hard to do things.

For instance i cant even rez in rampage since they reduced its stability and now even in rampage mode i get feared,knockdown and stunned constantly.

Also we all know S4 of league is about the grind and not about how good the players are.

Can we stop with this being a problem?

You and everyone has pics of winning and losing games against premades. The only frustrating part about it is when you face players you know your better then but they win because they are a 3-5 man party in ts and changed tactics as a team during a match.

Its straight honky that Anet puts PiPs and MMR together in a season to force a 50/50 match up because your gonna get those games like i did in season 1 vs Team PZ when you are in Diamond when they are. In the 500-400 games vs Pre’s you wouldnt be mad if you lost because its a good game but your mad because you lose a PiP.

The PiP system is just not a fun.

I have to admit, my top 3 fave things in GW2 so far.

1- ToL tournaments (got to take some friends into PvP and 1 year faced the Abjured and the next the Cunning Stunts)

2- The Scarlet Lions Arch event with the 3 giant dudes and her mini dungeon where you actually stomp her. (insanely awesome)

3- The Queens Gauntlet, this would be number 1 but i failed to kill the lady for the mini due to not having gear on multiplayers since i played mostly PvP. So i have some saltiness towards not finishing all of it.

Chaba.5410:

Straegen.2938:

Chaba.5410:

As far as I understand, since the sPvP and balance teams are two different teams, the only thing the sPvP team has control over is which sigils/runes/amulets are available. Removing that rune from sPvP wasn’t done by the balance team. I wouldn’t call the sPvP team lazy, but responsive.

This is probably true but doesn’t change the overall consideration. The WvW team can learn from sPvP changes. If anything WvW amplifies sPvP meta so changes made in sPvP that are well received should be adopted in some fashion in WvW.

Most of his points are valid and his solutions workable.

I doubt very much that the WvW team has control over builds in the manner the sPvP team has.

They probably dont but the PvP dev basically wrote a thread on the PvP forum saying they have no control over balance. I mean im currently on a server match where there is 9 servers and zergs are actually avoiding each other because once face to face the fights will go on for a very long time.

Everyone needs to truly face it, the game has no balance to it anymore in 1 vs 1.(fights can go on forever) and in 5 vs 5 PvP teams and in WvW.

Think about this, the Pro League had a game go the full 15 minutes after all the recent changes and killing the most defensive build in the game. (ele) From the previous seasons and in this game neither team scored over 400 pts.

LOL i honestly feel like the robot guy from Grandma’s Boy is the HOT balance guy and only in GW2 no one can challenge him so he literally sits on peoples faces.

Evan Lesh.3295:

/fifteencharacters

Isnt that the little girl who suggest the hard tacos shells with round bottoms when people are trying to choose between old school taco shells and soft taco wraps?

Irony in the photo to response ………………………………?

Cynz.9437:

Oh look, Anet finally managed to post info on official forums that they posted weeks ago on reddit. Dem muffins must have kept them busy.

What kind do you think they are?

I honestly think they were Krispy Kreme donuts. Right like dud posts on reddit and says ok now to go to the official GW2 web site and then someone comes in screaming “just got fresh krispy kreme” and poof forgot to post. I couldnt blame them at all but over muffins, it makes me sad they forgot GW2 forum page over muffins.

I agree, i have no interest of grinding my way to legendary in season 4.

I did in season 1 because i felt it would mean something, then it came super easy in 2 & 3 so the question just becomes where do i actually belong?

Lets be honest, legendary comes with 5 AP and a title. I dont see why i would have to play 200-300 games to earn it when i played 150 and less in seasons 2 and 3. Especially when i can see im going no where.

Either i belong or i dont, everyone got there legendary back armor so whats the deal?

Starbreaker.6507:

FiveGauge.1357:

Drakz.7051:

snip

We’re talking about Pro League, it’s little to do with casual league or your perception that PvE and WvW aren’t successful either, for their own reasons.

Drawing people into the casual league system is not the only point of having Pro League, and if those people do end up disliking the casual league system, it’s not the fault of eSports for enticing them to try.

I’m not knocking Pro League because I do enjoy watching the matches, but has it been successful at pulling people in?

I started watching the weekly pro games the first week of season one, but at that point I had already decided that I wanted to PvP and had gone from a F2P account to a full one.

Two things struck me the first games I tried to watch:

1. Being new I hadn’t the faintest idea what skills/effects/etc… were being used. The entirety of the games were one gigantic blitz of seizure-inducing light and effects.

2. The in game observation was jerky and the way it tries to zoom across the battlefield when you click on a player left a lot to be desired.

Again, I had already gone to full account so I wasn’t the targeted potential group they’re trying to advertise to, but I think from the two items above would turn off the average viewer coming in to see if they would want to play the game and as they say: you only get one chance to make a first impression.

That was just HOT and everything bad balance thing that came with it. GW2 before HOT was very fun to watch. Heck you could go back to WTS1 and see Blu losing his stuff when i believe phanta gets a decap on rom in a 1 vs 1 where rom capped a point basically winning the 1 vs 1 then giving it right back up.

I was in the AG tournaments in the AG 30’s and we didnt get to compete sometimes because all the spots filled up before we broke up.’

I mean you could look up the TOL 2 & 3 and see literally hundreds of teams entering into these open tournaments.( won 2 free finishers yeah!!!!)

That changed when HOT hit, so your not the only one who was like what is all this crap?

IMO 2 things really hurt the PvP scene. Anet willing to deal with the d/d ele at its apex (knowing they were gonna kill the build, they probably were just trying to hold out) and plain and simply HOT spec lines. They were slowly killing build diversity but we still had some and then BAM HOT hits and every team is running 2 mesmers, 2 revs, and a ele. Even the ESL had to make rules like 1 class per team simply because of the balance.

GW2 had a shot of being something special heading into it but have dropped the baton, tripped over a hurdle and fallen off the track and everyone is still trying to just finish the race.

OMG GO DREW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so i love the new shatterer event. I didnt like the teq because it felt super zergy but everyone does it because of the drops.

The last couple( i want to say 6) trys at kitten we were not even close and this last time was completely dead.

Its a odd thing to ask because the last successful group i had for kitten finished it in less then 4 minutes but i feel anet needs to either upgrade the other bosses so you cant just zerg it or make the rewards better so people want to do this event.

lol good one

I got one,

My guild is so poor we could only have 1 going in the guild hall

TheDevice.2751:

kdaddy.5431:

TheDevice.2751:

When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol

They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.

Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.

The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.

Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.

is it January 2105 because thats the last time i heard of burn guardians and turret engys being useful.

Seriously going to look threw these threads to find the last time someone complained about either.

Ohhh and also giving players like Nos and Kaypud life force to start a match says which class will be OP as a mofo when facing them.

Yeah so that means anything anyone hasn’t complained about isn’t viable. Your logic is sound. only it isnt. Nobody complains about Minions… so I guess that makes them just as useless.

Ohhh and balancing the entire class on account of two players has to be the silliest thing I’ve actually every heard. Not to mention 2 people I’ve never even heard of. Gw2 “pro’s” come and go. Just because some guy spends every day of his early 20’s trying to “get gud” at a class doesn’t mean we should be basing balance off their performance.

Its called balance. What you don’t seem to understand about necros (and I extend the lack of knowledge to Anet themselves) is that necromancers need to build up their power budged while all the other classes do not. Necromancers have to build up LF just to be on par with the strengths of all the other classes. Not to be stronger. Not to live longer, but to try and achieve a semblance of usefulness already afforded everyone else.

Guardians don’t have to work to get all the blocks and invuln. They just start with it. They just have to wait for the cooldown.

Lets also not forget

Blocks, invuln, evades etc, are ALWAYS going to be stronger than straight up life. Necromancers have a lot of life but they’re also rag dolls and have to take just about every bit of condition that comes their way. They get blinded, cc’d, dazed, confused, and everything else. When you block, you block. Nothing happens to you. Whats more, is while you block or evade or are invuln, you can heal. You cant heal in DS.

But just like Anet devs, you don’t care. It doesn’t matter to you because you don’t play necromancers.

You wrote “its called balance” and guess what if the elite necros make it work and destroy in 1 vs 1 already. Then to top it off that they are already beating the the DH you are using as a example then it cant be balanced at high level play.

Also i know this is hard but PvP is a 5 vs 5 game and i can argue that necros having unblockable marks and 2 health bars isnt fair. The condi spam from reaper form isnt fair combo with the damage its just not right.(thats what you just did)

Also the minion comment is what? No one complains about minions because it can be countered, if you dont counter it MM can be very strong in 1 vs 1 and team fights with life force. No one cares about burn guardians because its pretty easy to remove 1 condi when we have a meta where every class is spamming 3-4 condi in 1 attack.

No one cares about turrets because they are useless and the idea that you can compare a low-mid level excepted build such as MM necro to a non-existent turret engy is not a arguing point.

You are literally bringing up things that dont bother anyone in this game since before HOT. When we had a season (2) where necros were the apex and they didnt have LF to start a match. Heck even before HOT a certain player made necro vaible competing with it and virtually winning all his 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2.

People will not agree with you and they shouldnt because simply adjusting some skills/traits/cd on weapons necro can have a huge role in PvP. Adding lifeforce to the class just means they now have to balance around the fact they get Life force to start a match.

Supreme.3164:

kdaddy.5431:

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

snip
I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

It depends entirely on the spec. 1v1 full trapper is like 8th (equal skill levels should only consistently beat thieves and even then not even 90% of the time), Symbolic is like 3rd, meditrapper 4th or 5th.

In team fights full trapper is still only like 5th at any kind of actual skill, they’re the quintessential noobstomper and even a good one will never get much damage from the traps. Meditrapper is like 3rd (most people would much rather have a scrapper or mesmer on their side in a teamfight, both do significantly more total damage, have more devastating burst, and bring much more group support) and Symbolic is easily the worst at 9th (poor mobility, low AoE, poor point control, no group support at all, lower personal sustain than any other DH build so they die easily and frequently, decent but nothing-special burst compared to thief/warrior/ele).

See i dont know how you would do it but every class needs to have a best 1 vs 1 build, best team fighting build then builds that are so-so in each area but has the best mobility.

Currently im in ruby and im getting matches like these. Now someone said the scrappers and druids countered DH which might be true but that doesnt account for skill level. You have a huge part of the community who plays at a 3-5 level and thats with their best class. It can be hard to play mesmer,thief,rev, and ele atm for alot of people. Even harder for people who play engy/rev/warrior/and ranger and are expected to win the 1 vs 1.

Im having matches where the supposed class person engages a 1 vs 1 with the DH and doesnt win, i dont get mad at anyone but you can sense the frustration from people see matches like i have had where they hear ohh play rev/scrapper/druid meta and win the 1 vs 1 and they dont. I dont know where you would start to apply nerfs or buffs on either side.

You may be doing bad on ele because you play dagger main hand just saying…

Essentially your build is pretty bad for the kind of opposition you’re getting, currently dagger main hand won’t shine anywhere contrary to scepter in the current meta and that’s not to say that D MH is bad, just it’s tactically wrong

-You need focus as there you have the only usable unblockable CC where you’ll use it at crucial moments when DH are blocking, to land your burst

-If you try to keep a point against a 4 DH team..you’re doing is wrong, you need great ranged burst and mobility, therefore playing a sustain d/wh makes you completely useless, your only chance there is fresh air scepter…a particular version of it

-Unless the dh is bunker ( but he will lack dmg ), it’s feasible for all profession to beat it 1vs1, the trick there is to get around their obvious combos

Not much interested in this thread really even though I have a lv80 full ascended DH, I can beat them even on ele in its current state without much fuss. I may get killed by a DH as I may get outplayed..but nothing wrong there.

Not matter how bad is scepter respect to dagger main hand, in the current meta is the best weapon to have, good players will just outrange dagger..on any class they can, furthermore dagger mh will get you killed if you face dps druid with double taunt or condi war or condi chronos or ofc dragon hunters with dragon’s maw

P.S as side note dragon hunters using dragon’s maw are the bad ones, there you see a noob playing a noob stomper build, outplaying them should be easy feat

P.S.S Triple shout is bad now, you must have a stunbreaker and if you use warhorn you must have mist form at least in PvP, because there is no amulet supporting tank/sustain for ele

I disagree, i stun break on over loads, its a im trying to perma protect and scepter doesnt do anything.

Once again you want to do hypothetical, im on NA you dont like my Ele build you can see it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I fully understand how business work. My degree is in Marketing. In the internal war that is corporate business, units fight for a piece of the budget that’s allocated to them. When I was with iHeartMedia (huge radio corporation in the US) years ago, we brought in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue per quarter. Did we employees see any of that? No. I make triple my old salary working for the government.

Having a marketing background, there are times when you need to think outside of the box. GW2 brings in a good amount of revenue for NCSoft over the years, but that doesn’t translate to unlimited budgets. In the last quarterly report, GW2 sales beat only Wildstar. Company wide, labor costs were reduced by 8%, and the marketing budget was slashed 42% (due to no major events).

For the sake of discussion, say Dev budget was allocated an extra $200,000 a year. With the way I’ve heard the industry works, that’s enough to cover around 7 or 8 part-time Devs to assist core programming teams, or 4 to 5 full timers to create a whole new unit. I’m lowballing the salaries because top end salaries are for senior employees.

I love all game types of GW2. I want to see Anet succeed for another 20, 30, 40+ years. It would be a dream to see Anet fill stadiums with 50k fans and 10 million viewers for E-Sports finals. The reallocation of resources is just one idea that I wanted to toss around.

So if you know how it works then how are you coming up with these numbers? The business areas are Bellevue Washington (where part time dock workers make $21 a hour) and in California.

Im sorry how would you hire 7-8 employees when part time tech people are looking for the next job? Could leave at any moment? And how are you asking for them to make 25,000 a year which in a state where min wage is almost $10 a hour and in the Air Port area min wage is $15 a hour, when a base line full time job is around 21,000?

Yes i understand you want to see 200,000 of business go else where but its not realistic in any real way of improving the state of the game in any area.

Im sorry but that isnt how business works. For instance ive worked for a Billion dollar trucking company and now Hotel that brings in 5-10 million dollars of revenue a year.

There is different cut sheets for things such as employee expense, company cook outs, clothing and trucking gear. Each report is sent to a Senior person who then says whether or not its ok to put money in that area and multiple bosses are in charge of multiple things. Like the guy who runs office maintenance doesnt get the same budget as the go fixing the semi-trucks.

The same thing goes for the Hotel, cooking manager is given a X amount of money a month for food and accessorys. Anytime they go over there is a meeting with the boss who checks the reports there report is completely separate from house keeping managers and she/he also has her own report/budget she has to do.

2 things to add on that,

1- ESL league is not suppose to hurt it, Think about S1 when a pro team straight quit after messing up the start since the meta was hot garbage. News gets around when it comes to the best PvP games with tournaments. Anet have been trying to fix the pace of the game since that season but obviously dont know how.

2- The money would then go where? Maybe if Anet put that money into a online clothing store and accessory’s where you can purchase nic-nacks but that costs way more then 200k. Holding a warehouse and purchasing delivery and then shipping it to people is gonna cost 1 million alone not including the labor/equipment/everything else.

So you have to be reasonable, honestly 200k is what 3 more people to work on the game? Are you not a little happy that Anet is at least pretending they care about a aspect of the game that is not PvE?

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Literally after i posted that last comment i got this match. We actually should of won but my team mates felt it was necessary to give them the cap points back after killing them in fights, to chase beasts.

I’m seeing this as an issue more of class stacking than it is any one build of Guardian being OP (this is not saying DH doesn’t need some tuning, it does). You’d have had the same or worse outcomes if those’d been 4 Scrappers or 4 Druids, and probably the same outcome with 4 Mesmers or 4 Ele’s.

The reason DH gets complained about the most is it’s infinitely more common to get a team with 3 DH’s than it is to get a team with 3 of anything else, in part because they’re easy to play “well enough”. Their skill floor is too low.

Oh yeah you and Darknicrofia.2604 are correct.

But i disagree that stacking classes isnt the real issue. For instance get 5 warriors lets just say 3 meta with 2 running gun flame or something. There is a counter and a easy one from a team perspective. Also warrior cant heal others, cant cleanse for others, cant block for others and are not great at rezzing in there current meta state.

You stack thieves and guess what we can just camp 2 points with what ever team comp because you have to play squishy. Im still playing some ele and i dont worry about theives at all really on my ele but im using stone heart so there are just simple things you can do to counter this.

I can go down the list and just like Darknicrofia.2604 said about necros in S2 but there were team counters such as a shout ele as well as certain 1 vs 1 builds that beat them. Its why when we had all those necro threads we had alot of people saying its a L2P issue combined with it was the flavor of the month.

What makes Dh different is its ability for 1 DH to put down traps and other can play off of it giving huge damage. A player has 1-2 stacks of stability then 2 DH set down traps and break the bar then the spear of justice after you dodge out. Then you add how it can block for rezzes, heal condi and health for team mates, can play range or in the cap point and when playing off the cap point they can set you up.

For instance in the screen shot above 2 dh fought off point and when someone tried to engage them off point they would run into the random trap. Another thing rifle warriors, hammer revs, mesmers cant do. You switch into melee weapon mode.

Like we talked about earlier, its not a huge problem 1 vs 1, its not a problem if there is 1 on a team maybe even if there is 2 but when the class doesnt have a real weakness. Its real easy to play and when you get the majority of players who are below average to average. You now have to think about how good is it at floor level?

In season 2 i made a 1 vs 1 warrior with rifle and mace shield. Could beat the flavor of the month necro all the way up until mid diamond and then it became sometimes i win. Now take just a random player and ask the same thing and they would struggle heading into ruby.

Now place that necro everywhere where there is no hard counter and no odd build to change a match up. Chaith in his own post is writing how to beat one but there is a thread about storm saying how a DH doesnt want to face a engy. It then ends up with the OP of the thread facing a ESL player on engy facing his DH. And im interpreting but the Op said it took him really long time for the engy to beat him.

Taken everything ive said, take what you are saying, take what the storm comment thread and put it together with chaith’s comment and think about the average to below average player which probably consists of 80% of the game who is getting handled by the DH in 1 vs 1 and team fights. Think about how a ESL player basically makes all the right dodges and moves and still wins after a 1-2 minute battle and take the ceiling and floor of that build compared to the DH.

Now with in that contexts would you still say its more MM or the DH? Unless you just want every player who cant beat it to join it?

A few people have brought this up, alot of people use the description of warrior to make a change like this. “Master of weapons” except i cant use hammer because of its in discipline trait line, cant use GS or Axe because of power trait line.

Heck even HOT gave warrior a torch and it might be the best torch weapon in all the game but no one uses the trait lines for torch.

Literally after i posted that last comment i got this match. We actually should of won but my team mates felt it was necessary to give them the cap points back after killing them in fights, to chase beasts.

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

snip
I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

It depends entirely on the spec. 1v1 full trapper is like 8th (equal skill levels should only consistently beat thieves and even then not even 90% of the time), Symbolic is like 3rd, meditrapper 4th or 5th.

In team fights full trapper is still only like 5th at any kind of actual skill, they’re the quintessential noobstomper and even a good one will never get much damage from the traps. Meditrapper is like 3rd (most people would much rather have a scrapper or mesmer on their side in a teamfight, both do significantly more total damage, have more devastating burst, and bring much more group support) and Symbolic is easily the worst at 9th (poor mobility, low AoE, poor point control, no group support at all, lower personal sustain than any other DH build so they die easily and frequently, decent but nothing-special burst compared to thief/warrior/ele).

See i dont know how you would do it but every class needs to have a best 1 vs 1 build, best team fighting build then builds that are so-so in each area but has the best mobility.

Currently im in ruby and im getting matches like these. Now someone said the scrappers and druids countered DH which might be true but that doesnt account for skill level. You have a huge part of the community who plays at a 3-5 level and thats with their best class. It can be hard to play mesmer,thief,rev, and ele atm for alot of people. Even harder for people who play engy/rev/warrior/and ranger and are expected to win the 1 vs 1.

Im having matches where the supposed class person engages a 1 vs 1 with the DH and doesnt win, i dont get mad at anyone but you can sense the frustration from people see matches like i have had where they hear ohh play rev/scrapper/druid meta and win the 1 vs 1 and they dont. I dont know where you would start to apply nerfs or buffs on either side.

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

Mace is incredibly slow and i would like to see some hammer skills speed increased but im not one to say whats needs balance and what doesnt since ive been wrong about these things.

My big problem with this trap class is the same as ele were in the past season. It doesnt take a whole lot to play it and the skill level isnt high either.

Like when you pick any class you start at a 0 floor rate. Depending on the classes abilities and set up is its ceiling. If you take the recent meta builds for ele in the past seasons. The floor is literally a 4, people can not play this class wrong just not as well as they could have. The best players would play this at a imo ceiling of 7.

Dh now is that class, where literally any player can pick it up and be a 4 or 5 level. And the most elite of DH are only play at a 7 which is why the class is not balance. I have literally seen thieves, mesmers, revs, necros and ele player die in 4-5 seconds in a mid fight when they get targeted at mid and were not ready for it. Simply because they dont have the outs, Dh players can go into there heal or stun break aegis trap followed by the F1-3 which in similar cases as the other classes dont have these outs.

I dont want to see the Dh nerfed but i do want it to be balanced in a way thats far for everyone. I find build diversity with in each class is the problem but i dont know how you fix this.

I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

Lucred.1802:

Mime.6758:

https://www.twitch.tv/datmime/v/87877078

:(

Last night had a 5-man guild group decided they wanted to queue for unranked Stronghold.

11 hours later we gave up.

Why does nobody want to play Stronghold?

lol same thing, we had a guild mission of summon 2 champions or something easy like that.

We were in que in unranked for 10 minutes and said oh well. They really need to make stronghold a map choice instead of its own que.

TheDevice.2751:

When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol

They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.

Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.

The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.

Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.

is it January 2105 because thats the last time i heard of burn guardians and turret engys being useful.

Seriously going to look threw these threads to find the last time someone complained about either.

Ohhh and also giving players like Nos and Kaypud life force to start a match says which class will be OP as a mofo when facing them.

these stacks need a consume all button, i have near 2k of these things and i wont double click them all which is why i have 1/2 a bank slot holding them.

Chaith.8256:

MarkoNS.3261:

if you think guard is a “balanced” class you are just delusional.

You’re being emotional about it, if you really broke down what it brings to the table, you’ll find it’s not overtuned.

Dragonhunter with the Longbow build has reasonable teamfighting and small scale capabilities, tends to be advantaged in any sized fights in the presence of enemy Mesmers, Thieves, Warriors, and Necros

Tends to do much worse in any sized fights in the presence of Retribution Revs, Scrappers, Druids, and Eles.

The symbol build is just an overly selfish version of Druid/Scrapper that trades in a few clutch abilities in favor of highly avoidable symbol spam – only tactical use being for slowly pushing someone off & full capping a point in a 1v1

Dragonhunter is not even close to game breaking if players, on average, know when to back off, or press their defensive buttons at the right times. The players who are convinced Dragonhunter is OP are not being deceptive, just not at all realizing how to disrupt the Dragonhunter’s one-trick-pony burst combo.

It goes a bit like this:

• Cast True Shot
• Judge’s Intervention right before firing the True Shot
• Test of Faith Immediately
• Deflecting Shot knockback through Test of Faith
• Spear of Justice while they’re knocked back by Deflecting Shot
• Spear of Justice again to pull through Test of Faith

So here’s what you do: Activate stability/invuln at any time, or dodge out of Test of Faith before he positions his Deflecting Shot on you.

It’s a long combo to land a kill on somebody, honestly, Condi Engi burst, Thief Bursts, Invo Rev bursts, Mesmer Moa&Burst, these are much more lethal and more difficult to disrupt than the Dragonhunter’s. Dragonhunter will obliterate the sizable amount of players who haven’t mastered the ‘in and out’ active positioning PvP playstyle in GW2, and won’t instantly die like these same individuals, because the Guardian just presses cooldowns back to back instead of relying on positioning.

This is all true and great but you are breaking it down from the perspective of someone who plays the game in the lets just say the 99%.

On your way to legendary in ranked games you must see the players who run into mid fights getting caught, not targeting, players getting downed due to them running away from a fight or winning a fight vs someone else then step on traps and dies.

IMO its probably the 5-6 option for you guys in the ESL but lets discuss ranked atm with stacking of this class for people who are already struggling to find there strengths against it.

Just like season 1-2 people who played warriors or thief either needed to adjust or play a new class. Same with DH in 3 and now eles in 4 but the difference is the meta is completely offensive. Yet many 1 vs 1 fights can take minutes and as well as mid fights at the higher levels with rules against class stacking because of the inbalance in the game in 5 vs 5 situations. You are getting alot of people struggling to extend fights with DH with there F3 and your getting alot of people getting caught in multiple traps thrown in mid fights dazing each time.

I understand you can see the weaknesses of the class as well maybe seeing eye to eye with it with the people you play with on how to deal with it but you have to admit for the casual player its a real frustrating situation when you have to play X 3 utility skills because it counters the DH.

The meta game is only enforced harder on the community for each class because 1 meta is simply easier to play/understand/ get results for a ranked season.

Its Anet philosophy, make changes to the game and return 6 months later to see if it worked.

In their post when the season started, the removal of amulets, buffs and nerfs were put in place to increase the speed of game play. At this they have failed.

What im sure they know and we know is that every HOT build was straight boon/damage/healing/support garbage. The spec lines with weapon combinations gave so much with no negative.

Anet has made warrior, thief, guardian and now ele useless in PvP leagues S1-S4 and its 100% due to the fact they have no idea how to balance the classes. I bet that if they nerf DH it will not be usable like it was in S2-3. Just like they over buffed warrior after it being useless in S1-2.

So right now Anet is some what watching reddit mostly not. Probably preparing for living story and some raid changes. They will wait after the league finals to make some small changes that all in all wont help game play but simply change it.

Its like south park where everyone drives smart cars and gives each other high fives screaming “thanks” and Anet says job well done crew.

I dont know what everyones long posts are about. Let me sum it up.

Ele was bad when the game first game out, ele was the power house when cele amulet came in. Ele was god like with the 30-30-30 traits and now ele is the worst class in the game.

Seriously some of these posts are getting silly, i wont say who but 2 people are actually starting to attack each other and children school gets out at 3:15 so pick up your lunch boxes and take in facts instead of dissecting what this post is suppose to be about.

Anet inability to balance the game in PvP

Saiyan.1704:

What’s going to kill Revs then. A 1v2?

Im pretty sure that goes for every class in the game at this point. Mid fights are shorter then the 1 vs 1 fights now.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Menyus.4610:

TheDevice.2751:

Kuya.6495:

you killed a beast at least. gg you

One of my teammates ACTUALLY left because of the DH stack.

After DH nerf DHs be like omfg Anet ruined DH it took me more then 2 seconds to kill someone….

If i could solo que to legend with DH with like a 80% win rate in season 2/season 3, I doubt I’ll care much if they nerf DH after season 4.

Dont act like getting to legendary S2/3 was some majestic force. I basically got a free ride into legendary S2 after the grind of S1 and i rode a full trap ranger into it.

I even posted unfair matches where 7-8 games in a row my team won 500-100 and i running a build with 1 condi clear and no stun breakers in a meta where everything is running at 100 X GW2 core level.

S1/4 is not fun for the grind, season 2/3 wasnt fun because it was unfair.(either way- for players getting smushed and for players doing the smushing) To top it all off balance is god awful. There is balance between the classes in 1 vs 1 situations and 5-6 classes are very similar. Then there is balance between classes in a 5 vs 5 situation and right now we are the Washington Generals and Anet is the Globetrotters.

Xillllix.3485:

kdaddy.5431:

Question why do you dislike conquest so much?

I didn’t say that. I said that the conquest gameplay doesn’t work with the current class balance.

The nodes circles are too small and do not leave space to fight or dodge out of insta-kill traps. It’s a completely unfair advantage when a class can just force you out of the objectives. No wonder why I’ve seen games with 7 DH! That’s all you need really.

Perhaps druids to counter and a necro to corrupt. That’s about it.

I don’t dislike conquest, but I could imagine a game mode and new maps that would be more dynamic and interesting where you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of the objectives mechanics using a specific builds.

I stand corrected then, I apologize.

Ross Biddle.2367:

There were no DH’s in your match, so the game auto forfeited it.

i agree, no one is taking this ranked match seriously so obviously no one is getting PiPs for it.

Xillllix.3485:

The problem isn’t the guard that much, it’s that the balance in general across the board is just terrible and the conquest game-type doesn’t promote interesting gameplay.

When traps that insta-kill players without stability cover the entire objective of your game-mode you know you’ve failed. The original Guild Wars 1 team would never have let something like that happen.

I have to disagree because i find WTS 1 and WTS 2 super fun to watch and decent balance. I mean you have 3-4 players running cele amulet but all classes are shown and all of them been played well.

D/D ele meta and HOT hit and boom the roof collapsed. I do find conquests super fun to play and watch before HOT.

Like in before HOT you saw good portal plays, crazy movement from thieves as well as huge power and what other teams did to counter it. Even in the NA qualifiers you saw tarcis survive a 1 vs 2 vs never lucky. Then he got the stomp and storm and huerix where on the fight and off the fight and back to the fight. It was some pretty good stuff.

I mean its not conquest fault that Anet is trolling players with these HOT specs. With guardians having cap size traps that do alot of damage, removing all bunker/support amulets, killing off any support builds, and most of the HOT weapons being OP for the classes. Thats Anet being Anet and if you want to say GW1 PvP wasnt like that i would have to disagree. I have many guild mates who said if they did every thing right they could kill the enemy team in 25 sec. Plus there is videos on youtube of imbalance like any game but obviously since HOT and slightly before it Anet has eaten all the cake at the party before even lighting the candles when it comes to PvP.

Question why do you dislike conquest so much?

Skittledness.5106:

I’ll 1v1 you bois if you need scrapper duels,I beat kitten all the time on engi and he’s “best guard NA”

LOL thanks for clearing this up. Everyone was playing the hypothetical and you came in like a baller taking on all challengers!!!!!

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Sammyjoe.4271:

In the early years of Gw2 I have never had more fun with a game. I would come home from school everyday and play until I went to bed, rinse and repeat. However when people wonder why Gw2 is maybe not doing the best it can be its for a few reasons, stupid reasons in fact.
1) WvW server merges: I have had at least 50 people from my server who have called it quits after the server merges. It totally defeats the purpose of one server working together and eliminates what that server did as one. For example, my server would do “Theme nights” and reset parties at north camp before the WvW matchup reset. All of that stuff is eliminated when you have 2 other servers with you. Server merges completely destroyed my super friendly, super close server community.
2) Condi Metas: This is all about PvP and a little of WvW roaming. Basically Anet requires you, for PvP to either run the cheese condi builds and completely destroy anyone you want, since condis have been way over buffed in the past years, or your build better kitten well be able to cure condis like no other.
This is why PvP is growing less popular, I think, every day. There’s no thrill of winning a 1v1 fight if all you do is stand there and spam some condis and call it a day, take us back to the good ol’ days when we had to make builds from scratch not just jump on the condi bandwagon since they’re godly overpowered or just go to Metabattle and get a build that will make you seem like you know what your doing.
3) Buffing then Nerfing (MOST IMPORTANT): I never was able to understand why Anet (not trying to rip on anet I love them) can’t simply make all classes even. Every big nerf patch a few classes get nerfed, and rightly so (I’m looking at you Dragonhunters and Engis) but for some reason they feel the need to buff the HELL out of other classes.
So since I’ve been playing since the November after launch I dont believe I’ve ever witnessed all classes being equal. There is always 3,4, or even 5 classes ridiculously set above the rest. Like engi, I mained a engi for the longest time rocking my awesome rifle build (I’m still salty anet about removing Synaptic Overload) back when engi was believe it or not, hard to play!
Well thats my rant, I feel some of the skill and knowledge of our classes and the game are fading since new players can throw together this overpowered condi build from Metabattle and destroy everyone. I could be wrong, give me some feedback and long live Gw2 (with changes)

Thanks to Danikat.8537 for editing my post into paragraphs which I forgot xD. Thanks!

If i can throw some stuff in there,

GW2 core was alot more about exploring and story lines. Dungeons with 3 explorable dungeons so in total 4 dungeons with 4 different story lines. Then living world with a huge amount of zerging and once again story lines.

HOT has some fun things but the maps are a bit of a chore. Not being able to do certain things unless you unlock masterys. Not being able to do raids without certain gear on certain characters. Not being able to pick up 2-3 people and go do something. I mean HOT should by definition just have pictures of zergs on the maps, raids, and events.

I just took a picture a few hours ago and this is kind of what HOT is to me. I mean when GW2 first came out people were doing dungeons like crazy, farming dungeons even more so then raids are now. But they had a fair amount of story to go with it. Now the story for HOT has been hot garbage but to add in all the missed steps in PvP and WvW. Its gonna be hard for any long time players of GW2 to sit threw this.

You took a picture of a raid long after raids have been cleared by people. Not really indicative of anything other than raids not being as popular as you think. I don’t think raids should have ever been added to this game, but that’s another issue.

You can take two or three friends and go do stuff in HoT in the open world. How do I know? Because I do it pretty often. I’m not sure why you think you can’t do that.

Edit: Btw there’s a ton of story in HoT. Not just in the instances but the zones. The HoT zones are filled with stories.

So when the LFG has a million people looking for a group and actual groups need none, that isnt a problem? Just some food for thought, as a guild leader when ever we brought people into our guild and they wanted to try fractals or dungeons we could. With the 2-3 people i was alluding too, we can not do that anymore since most people want to raid.

Now of course you can explore HOT with 2-3 people but you cant raid, kill the event bosses or do meta events. If you didnt want to do world bosses in GW2 core you didnt have too. HOT events are kind of based on the zergs getting things done. AB-TD meta events are lane events. Seriously put it all together.

Now you want to talk about the story and compare the 2? Ok GW2 core is about getting Destiny Edge back together after a failed attempt at a dragon resulting in the death of 2 important people. Which now splits off into a million different storys which leads you into facing Zhaitan.

In the HOT story it pins Sylvari and the jungle against you. You the commander keeping a watchful eye on sylvari. (even if you are one) The constant this team is better then destinys edge even though it hasnt done anything yet. The mordermoth has a weakness we just have to find it story line, which you never do. It takes a dying Pact Leader to guide you (which by the way you never check on the pale tree) and to top it all off.

This great story of HOT is all about the glint egg. After spending the last of the living story from core GW2 and 1/4 of the HOT story chasing caithe for it. You hand it off without question to glowing floating people because they say they are the protectors of the egg. (you got to be taking a huge dump on me, something about these cheese burgers comes to mind) I seriously can not believe some of the lines that come out of the commanders mouth and friends. Rytlock says “dont worry zojja/logan this group might be better then we ever were” wtf? The first group to kill a elder dragon ever is now a after thought? You as a commander says “i cant believe how much stronger mordremoth is over Zhaitan” based on what? Tami says “i dont believe it” and you begin to say crap like we need to find that weakness. To defeat Zhaitan you brought together everyone in Tyria, (3 pacts and DE) recreated the ultimate weapon to hit Zhaitan with, got a vision from the Pale tree and planned ahead on how you were gonna fight him. At the end of it all Trahearne even says something like we lost 1/2 of the army.(gives a idea of the power of a elder dragon) With Mordremoth you simply walked up to it and fight it and win?

Now of course the maps of HOT are glorious and the story with in each map is very nice but when you want to compare dungeons/fractals with all the problems they had when it came out to raids now. Ill take dungeon and fractals. Heck in the PvP forum right now, you have threads asking for core PvP rooms and they just held a vanilla 1 vs 1 PvP tournament since the balance was literally 10X better.

I get it you wanted to point something in my comment which i accept. But back to my original point is that when GW2 core was so much better in every aspect of the game people are gonna lose interest in HOT far faster then they did in core GW2.

Sammyjoe.4271:

In the early years of Gw2 I have never had more fun with a game. I would come home from school everyday and play until I went to bed, rinse and repeat. However when people wonder why Gw2 is maybe not doing the best it can be its for a few reasons, stupid reasons in fact.
1) WvW server merges: I have had at least 50 people from my server who have called it quits after the server merges. It totally defeats the purpose of one server working together and eliminates what that server did as one. For example, my server would do “Theme nights” and reset parties at north camp before the WvW matchup reset. All of that stuff is eliminated when you have 2 other servers with you. Server merges completely destroyed my super friendly, super close server community.
2) Condi Metas: This is all about PvP and a little of WvW roaming. Basically Anet requires you, for PvP to either run the cheese condi builds and completely destroy anyone you want, since condis have been way over buffed in the past years, or your build better kitten well be able to cure condis like no other.
This is why PvP is growing less popular, I think, every day. There’s no thrill of winning a 1v1 fight if all you do is stand there and spam some condis and call it a day, take us back to the good ol’ days when we had to make builds from scratch not just jump on the condi bandwagon since they’re godly overpowered or just go to Metabattle and get a build that will make you seem like you know what your doing.
3) Buffing then Nerfing (MOST IMPORTANT): I never was able to understand why Anet (not trying to rip on anet I love them) can’t simply make all classes even. Every big nerf patch a few classes get nerfed, and rightly so (I’m looking at you Dragonhunters and Engis) but for some reason they feel the need to buff the HELL out of other classes.
So since I’ve been playing since the November after launch I dont believe I’ve ever witnessed all classes being equal. There is always 3,4, or even 5 classes ridiculously set above the rest. Like engi, I mained a engi for the longest time rocking my awesome rifle build (I’m still salty anet about removing Synaptic Overload) back when engi was believe it or not, hard to play!
Well thats my rant, I feel some of the skill and knowledge of our classes and the game are fading since new players can throw together this overpowered condi build from Metabattle and destroy everyone. I could be wrong, give me some feedback and long live Gw2 (with changes)

Thanks to Danikat.8537 for editing my post into paragraphs which I forgot xD. Thanks!

If i can throw some stuff in there,

GW2 core was alot more about exploring and story lines. Dungeons with 3 explorable dungeons so in total 4 dungeons with 4 different story lines. Then living world with a huge amount of zerging and once again story lines.

HOT has some fun things but the maps are a bit of a chore. Not being able to do certain things unless you unlock masterys. Not being able to do raids without certain gear on certain characters. Not being able to pick up 2-3 people and go do something. I mean HOT should by definition just have pictures of zergs on the maps, raids, and events.

I just took a picture a few hours ago and this is kind of what HOT is to me. I mean when GW2 first came out people were doing dungeons like crazy, farming dungeons even more so then raids are now. But they had a fair amount of story to go with it. Now the story for HOT has been hot garbage but to add in all the missed steps in PvP and WvW. Its gonna be hard for any long time players of GW2 to sit threw this.

Keksmuffin.1450:

i will never understand why people keep talking about condi metas or condis breaking the game when there was never a point where more than 2 or 3 classes at once actually ran condi builds that werent gimmicks in pvp <_<

Actually you are incorrect. So in WvW where the amound of condi stacking can get ungodly high. There is no coming back from marks, mesmer confusion and torment among other things. You can easily be condi bombed by a thief and engy if you are running around in small groups. Where there is not enough time to stun break and then cleanse 4-5 condis after then do it again.

The PvP part is different because before HOT burns damage was a little out of hand by burn guardians and d/d eles. HOT comes out and season 1 was basically a wash since the it was a bunker meta. Season 2-3 have been primarily condi influenced. You had the bruiser role played by engy and the bunker role by ele. Both are here to bring support in heals and condi clears.

Every team needed a good condi mesmer. Its why Team PZ got slammed so bad, they traded a thief for there mesmer. You also saw 2 sides to it where EU played condi warrior and NA stuck with the condi necro. Warrior was far superior at this point because DPS was lacking from teams. With no true DPS classes being played for big bursts.

So now in S4 you can legitimately say the meta is not condi based around but there is a huge issue with what kind of meta it is since every amulet is offensive. Actually almost all the classes are taking offensive amulets because they have to and playing the safest trait lines.

All in all condi has played a huge part of the new meta after season 1 but i can easily agree that condi isnt the reason for the PvP scene looking like it is. Obviously its much faster paced, with alot more spam and very to little room in individual build set ups or team. Testing builds or team comps is actual horrible now which has nothing to do with condi.

So you are right but your not

holychampion.7386:

Dragonhunter:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Courage
75secs cooldown
5 seconds block

Warrior
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance
25 seconds cooldown
3 seconds block + reflect projectile

Mesmer
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Echo_of_Memory
30 seconds total cooldown
2 blocks
internal cooldown of 10 seconds. + alacrity

Revenant
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Hibernation
25 seconds cooldown
3 seconds block

Let’s analyze it further:
Warrior: Projectile Reflect while blocking. In 75 seconds you will have BLOCKED and REFLECTED 9 seconds total
Revenant: Autoprock Shield + Cast Shield. That means a net worth of 12 seconds worth of blocking in 75 seconds
Mesmer: Double block on a 30 second cooldown. That’s aprox 9 seconds of block in 75seconds + the alacrity

Renewed focus gives me another 5 seconds of block?!!
OH MY GOD UNFAIRNESS, 10 seconds of block total on a 75 second cooldown is too powerful!!!!.
Please tell me how other classes don’t use elite skills.
If any of the DH elite skills were to become viable I would gladly swap Renewed Focus for it. But I’d have only 5 seconds of block uptime and I would carry that burden willingly.

If we had to spend 5 times blocking and unable to attack with a virtue which is the class mechanic I would’ve quit the game long ago.

DH lose offensive capabilities to carry renwed focus which is pro support.
Less QQ more Pew Pew.

If you see a white wave in front of the guard let me tell you a secret… go to its back, it doesn’t block from behind, learn to play, adapt, develope strategies.

What you are saying for ESL rules or even 1 guardian in a team. 100% correct, i think the issue is that the stacking of DH in ranked matches.

I mean alot of the 4-5 man premade teams ive seen run 2 DH and are obviously in team speak taking turns running the F3 skill. That with a rev giving boons in a mid fight, i found to be over the top. Then you have the ranger on a corner and with what ever the 5th is.

In ranked play where Anet cant seem to find the class balance in matches or stop people from switching. DH can be a problem with the F3 block where you can attack too. Every other class when they block they are blocking which creates a window or free damage and a even longer one in coordinated fights.

If i may, i have no idea how to balance the HOT specs and im 100% Anet doesnt know how to either since 1-2 classes die every season.

But many classes can not counter this. Warrior endure the pain can still receive condi damage. Beserker stance can still take physical damage. Anet changed stone skin and diamond skin so the class has been on nerfs since before HOT.

I mean when you say 10 sec of blocking while attacking, 5 sec of being untouchable damage, a heal with 3 condi cleanse (2x) and pulsing stability with aegis trap.

Its not to say that DH is OP in any way because most of the HOT specs are, its just that any one can pick it up and be decent at it which is causing frustration.

xKratos.4758:

I remembered when leaderboard “skill based” bas around and only top 500 get llamas instead of everyone caw get llamas with 1 hr of grindings. I think I was top100 or something b4 they took it away. The leaderboard back then was kinda Grind too but at least you know most of the people on there. Now you have random PvE heroes who got legend cuz they spam enough games to get carry

If you are talking about the Leader Board rewards time when Lux Fortuna was the #1 ranked player. It was definitely not skill based.

Abazigal.3679:

Agree with last paragraph, there lacks true rewards for veterans. But i believe at this state only in-game tournaments, or titles showing how many tournaments matchs you won, could motivate these players.

About people playing for the win, i’m gonna keep the idea that seasons are the problem. You are time limited, so basically people get mad when they get few loses in a row.

About the pip system, i do think it’s a good system. It gets too complicated deciding what is a blow out or a close game. I had games on legacy of foefire where we would keep 2 points, leaving opponents the third. They would never manage to cap our points, and try a lord rush. The match ends into a 500-400, but it’s like winning 500-100 with all due respect.

People are getting mad because they will spend 2 hrs playing guild wars and they will be -1 PiP. Or they will lose multiple PiPs being in the games like i posted.

A 500-400 match is very close because Lord only gives 150 but thats the only map that does that. Any map that is 500-400 is a close game, that match is literally decided by 1-2 fights that had they gone the other way the scores would be reversed.

Which goes back to the PiP system, people are getting mad because if you are in T5 diamond and you get 5-10 min que, have limited time as you said and you lose these really close matches. You are losing tiers against opponents equally skilled in very close matches and all you truly want is the new Legendary Title.

Which Anet post on reddit and not on their on forum……………………..

Rigante.2470:

Pretty sure they already acknowledged the pip system is going away.

Yes but they have not talked about what kind of system they have put in place. They have not talked about future MM, they have not talked about future rewards.

As a troll post someone asked for different rewards for PvP. Then a Anet Dev asked what kind of rewards would we like, tons of posts came in.

This is a chance to say what kind of league system we want. For instance i want one Leader Board Based, a ranking system where its about the number of games played/ games won/ competition level/ and what class the person is using.

Anet i dont know what your plan is for the PvP scene. Yet i again will write another thread about why this PiP system is so bad.

Lets just start off with its very grindy and you literally see progression 30 min at a time with que time and the match. This is very frustrating because you are no longer playing the game for fun/ to get better/ to see how well you play against other players you might want to challenge yourself against. All you care about is the win, ive had a few matches that were complete stomps and 1 person would say. " I feel bad for them" then another person would respond with something silly like better them then me or at least i got my PiP.

I have 2 screen shots i would like to show. 1 is of the closest match ive had in a league game. Anet i want you to realize these people lost a PiP. They cant focus on what a great match it was or where it went wrong for them. Simply put you could see the frustration they had because they were going to lose a PiP.

The 2nd one is my match history, you will see matches i win that might be blow outs and then matches that are very close. It is clear to me that you guys know where people belong. You said you changed to MM system to go back to 50/50. So obviously its working well and you are simply creating a frustrating task for people who want to get to the next tier. The real question to me is why are people losing PiPs in good games? Or when they realistically had no chance? And yet you seem to have the info and MM system to create good matches, why are you not trying to create a league in which people want to keep playing?

Ive gotten the wings so only working towards the title but the question stands is where is the legit PvP things the PvP community wants? Such as a Leader Board showing who are the best players and what there win/loss were. Or titles/symbols for players who are really good. You used to have to get Mini llamas by actually competing in actual tournaments, so my question becomes why did you write that Raids were not meant for everyone and yet you gave all PvP awards away to everyone who would simply grind threw your PiP system?

I truly do not understand the logic or the goal for each area of the game.