Guild Wars 2

the problem with CS is basic
1. short time to do anything vlauable and as such must have 3 clones up
2. when you do have 3 clones up which skill to use? do my group need time warp, do they need null field do they need well? if i just spamm tham all what will i gain. only the skill which was needed

thus the utilities must be choose to fit all situation

like well heal, null, time warp = you could heal your team ,remove boon and condition and give speed attack and slow. but in the right time so oyu must be very aware to your group

to use CS on weapon skills is useless for your team and just to spamm skills again for 1 trick pony of 90 sec which leave you with nothing after this combo

lol from this thread

to sum it up

in theory you could do all those trick ppl posted like 3 izerk or i duelist, shatter 6 MW etc
pls show us some tpvp match you did it in group fight

i have tested the signet of ethear. yes you can work it out but first you need to bring 3 clones up . make sure they wont get killed by aoe or cleave to be on safe spot as CS will port you the the previos spot. than look for target than fress f5 and spam fast those skills and hope the phantasm wont get killed in the process

if you manage to do that against average group 30% of the time and stay alive while killing your enemy than gg.

check the mesmer forum for dueling testing

also perma slow or longer duration slow – common 4 sec of slow is too long???
AA gs cannot be perma slow and if so the mesmer dont do dmg
if you cant dodge the obvios shield slow or phantasm than l2p how to kill or dodge

i am not talking about new player with whom you fought….or golem in the mist

i was playing both condi shatter and power shatter with chrono full team versus good full team. the enemy pu mesmer just do wonder on us. the dd ele hold the point 2 min in 1v2 and kite like hell
thier thief decap points so fast

so yes i did 2 time warp yeeepeee

if you notice chrono trait line is all about support and not dmg and you will see after the whole hype from it calm down ppl will return to the basic meta builds

a team of 4v4 in mid lets say can kill 2 moas at the same time
1 moa will run 1 moa can be killed (as before)
if 1 moa run and your team will chase it you probably loose the point

if you channle it 1 after the another maybe

but the same goes with time warp twice one after the another. full control of mid for 20 sec

if ppl still shouting perma slow so common

chrono if ppl still didnt get it is for group fight and not dueling

it can support good the party . can be effective bunker (but probable not as guard or dd ele)

the basic power build are still meta and better without chorno

maybe for condition chorno can be better with lots fo pressure but simple power pu or power block can be better wihtout chrono

i think the support boon share with wells and glamour field can be good too

Asudementio.8526:

@messiah.1908

Thieves shadow embrace shouldn’t remove slow when a thief is in stealth. Shadow’s embrace removes damaging conditions. So you are incorrect there, thieves must use a rune, a sigil, shadowstep, signet of agility, or sword skill #2 to remove slow.

Edit: or a trick if traited

correct- ss, withraw (if traited), sword#2. sitting in stealth just give him time to w8 till its ends

i upload video with it

with pugs group just dont play it. you will die alone with no support

with full team its good build

i have never played bunker so its kinda new to me and intersting

1v1 most of the enemy just leave me be
1v2 i can handle 1 min unless its zerk ranger and zerk melee as its hard , or 1 condi 1 zerk too much pressure
1v3 my longest was 1 min with engi rifle, dd ele, and warrior but average is 30 sec. but i think you shouldnt do that unless your team is coming to help you

every phantasm on power/condi build do great/good dmg . shield DONT! thats why we get 2 for the slow and alacrit

if we block we get 2 if we dont we get 1

also check the base cd of the shield

too much slow????

against who ou were fighting

ranger – slow pass to it pet, and got good cleanse abilities
ele – cleanse so fast
guard – the same
warrior – immune to conditions
thief – stealth
engi – tricky but can get out fast of fights
necro – trasfer back at you

its just another conditions with low duration in pvp (not wvw)

i could stack it for 6 sec on average player

i played condi build which the slow cames from phantasm and well and time warp

i played power build which the slow came from interupt shield and time warp

with power i could stack it 6 sec and i tried to use it when burst and when i wanted to interupt the heal

but if you just spamm it to stack it you doing it all worng

maybe for interupt reduce it for 2 sec .
AA gs i couldnt stack it as ppl mention it as it got 1 sec delay between them so its not worth it

i dueled pu mesmer and he won 8 out of 10. as he just set in stealth
i dueled thief and he won 5 out of 10. mainly cuase of stealth SR and me with no cd rdy (2 min fights)

i think slow is very good ability for bunker mesmer and without it bunker mesmer goona be in some trouble. i create 3 clones and save them as it reduce 9% dmg +33% from protection and slow also add to it.

the problem is not with the slow rather the huge fast combo mesmer has with gs alongside pu

pu power is still the most efficient no matter how many clones oyu create

check the cd on this skill versus other phantasm. also staff phantasm is created without block, torch, sword etc.
an phantasm is created just by pressing

you meant create clone on block and not phantasm

with stability i rarely get cc this why i didnt take blink and want more group support aoe

cleric is more good indeed with the 5.3k health aoe

resistance from glamour field is very useful as it give you and your party 3 sec without condition effectiveness.

but yes so far condition burst is this counter although 1v1 is doable 1v2 with one of them condi is hard (trap ranger or condi mesmer)

res with no problem
stomp with no problem (stability)
distortion with sword and block with shield

protection up time is longer due to 4 ethereal fields

here is a build i testing right now

i hope more will test it out and comment

few fight i had with cleric amulet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itzTc7ByYfs&feature=youtu.be

your all math is theoretical

i get fury with carrion so 25% crit chance
also direct dmg if done favourable versus condi

if you do any math condi versus power in 10 sec interval you will see both of them doing the same result (more or less with any class)

with carrion i can do average mind wrack 3-4k and not 2.5k
bleeing i get is 2 stacks so 200 dps and not 65
confusion images doing 3-5k direct dmg ….

also rabid fall against class which immune to condition like warrior, ele

i dont say rabid doesnt good as it is but after testing it more than 2 months for me carrion is much better

slow is very important skill which suppos to negate quickness dont forget it

as for now even me while testing it i tried to use in on the right time

against stomp
for ress
for burst

all other time it will just dont contribute

so yes if i see slow on me without me bursting or stomping or ressing i am ok with that

so ppl afraid of it now like the 2 stacks of torment trait because they have got time to get used to it and use it right

i can upload 30 min video of playing condi build

the power build does huge dmg and also love it more than the regular power build

i came up with bunker build and will upload the build soon (but no game play as my team wants me to play condi or power)

Telekinesis.8312:

messiah.1908:

Iavra.8510:

Condi Chrono (Dueling, Illusions, Chrono) is pretty broken, i’ve seen bursts for 30+ confusion by pretty much spamming all shatters twice with iReversion.

how the hell 30 stacks

if you began with 3 clones with F2 its 8 stacks than f1 its 2 stacks than f3 its 2 stacks and f4 its 2 stacks and f5 its 2 stacks and all over again with f1-f4 which is 8 stacks
so total 24 stacks with #3 scepter its 6 more. but the duration of the earlier stacks will be finished

now did you use it on golem like anet did?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qtxJ_HtB1A

are you sure? :P
what you see there is all condition damage, no physical damage cause that mob takes no damage from front

omg pve common PVE food duration etc… go with power and you will do more dmg

i am pvp players and hope anet dont nerf us by pve game play

Iavra.8510:

Condi Chrono (Dueling, Illusions, Chrono) is pretty broken, i’ve seen bursts for 30+ confusion by pretty much spamming all shatters twice with iReversion.

how the hell 30 stacks

if you began with 3 clones with F2 its 8 stacks than f1 its 2 stacks than f3 its 2 stacks and f4 its 2 stacks and f5 its 2 stacks and all over again with f1-f4 which is 8 stacks
so total 24 stacks with #3 scepter its 6 more. but the duration of the earlier stacks will be finished

now did you use it on golem like anet did?!

my best was 22 stacks but i burn all my shatter .gg with that on real fight

tobascodagama.2961:

Don’t stand in the kitten is, like, the oldest MMO adage. Amazing that some people still haven’t figured it out.

Anyway, I think Silverkey does have a point about the interaction between GS AA and Lost Time. Dueling already gives us perma-Fury, more or less, so with Marauder gear it takes basically two AA cycles for a guaranteed Lost Time proc. Which you can then sustain indefinitely because you’re over the crit cap if you also took Danger Time.

Problem is, Spatial Surge is basically the only way we have to reliably proc the effect. So if you nerf Lost Time any further, it becomes nearly useless for any weapon other than Greatsword.

So, here’s what I think of Lost Time at the moment:

• It’s more useful for leading into a burst combo (Danger Time!) than for keeping up perma-Slow.
• Greatsword is already our best burst combo weapon, and it’s the best way to apply Lost Time as well.
• Master Fencer + Danger Time means we can easily reach the crit cap with only ~50% base crit chance. The rest of those stat points can feed into Power or Ferocity.
• Combining the above points, I think the specific interaction between GS AA and Lost Time might be a little over the top, even if Lost Time isn’t necessarily OP in general.

Given all of the above, I think it would be reasonable to apply a short ICD on gaining Lost Time stacks. 3/4s seems appropriate, it would ensure that you can’t gain more than 2 stacks per Spatial Surge cycle while not hurting Lost Time application too much for other weapons.

but the problem is when ever you see mesmer just using AA freely ? and if so great i can pressure him and he dont shatter me which can lead to more dmg
in team fight it rarely happens
so all is theoretical

Scourge.1563:

messiah.1908:

i am so amazed of the mesmer community

you scream op when ppl around dont yet familiar with the chrono concept

i played condi shatter and have fought necro and after i told him how to beat me with condition transfer he rekt me
i have played the same with dd ele diamond skin and staff ele and the new trait ele , condi cant touch them
guard the same

so yes bit more slow from shield block mainly but hardly infinite

F5 very tricky to use so far but getting the hang of it

so if you want another mtd nerf call it op based on noob ppl you were fighting who dont know yet how to counter it

chrono is still like any other mesmer cant handle cc and conditions

its nice trait line which make you choose correctly between dom/insp/ duel as it should

regarding power build chrono with de gives so much illusion up for fast shattering so the dmg is buff with GS. but they nerf the GS dmg a bit so…
with signet of the ether i use one trick pony to create 2 izerk they do dmg and i shatter and again 2 pops up . but again i use my heal to do that…

Dude your fooling your self if you think its not OP I’m sorry its fun and all but its incredibly Broke. I sat in a fight and was slowed 100% of the time while they have quickness and pop clones out faster then a mother on welfare. I can not dump the slow so that in its self is broke. so I stand there with my thumb up my kitten and cant do anything. Its funny that you say that about the Mesmer that its cause no one knows how to fight them yet but I don’t have that problem with the other elite spec’s. this was also not just a few hours of Spvp this was from last night until now. So go ahead and think and justify it in your head but reality is that its broke and needs some toning down.

dude i really dont know how you were perma slowed?

did the mesmer interrupted you so 3 sec slow and than just AA you with gs for more 2 sec slow ? – have you consider dodge
did the mesmer use well so 3 sec slow and you didnt dodge?
did the mesmer use time warp – and you didnt move out of it
did the mesmer use shield phantasm and you didnt kill them so got 3 sec slow

why you want phantasm skills recharge with OS. just take the trait so when you shatter they reappear

to use time warp just to do that ???!!!

for condi shatter carrion is far better . mw can do with 3 clones up 4k dmg plus the conditions so its nice combination of hybrid dmg

rabid is good when you play solo and dont have good awareness for the enemy burst

it took me few hours to get used to carrion and i love it more than rabid now as the dmg even with diamond skin ele (in some point) as with rabid you just cant

reserved for more vids

here is some testing duels and fight i had
pretty much had to learn the use of this trait line and skills

F5 tricky
i also wanted to test it out when i am pressure so you will see me taking the hits to get my hp low

i didnt read the whole thread but did you even tried it in pvp?

with ip only CS is 1.5 sec with skill activation so only 1 skill with less than 0.5 sec is enable . more than that you wont be able to complete the chain activation of your skill

with 3 clones up its 6 sec CS time. which enable you if you fast to create 2 phantasm and use signet skill and rarely another phantasm and shatter . but than CS activated

but consider in team fight why you wanna use your heal even when it will be recharge?
aoe cleave may kill your phantasms

for now on paper there are many things you can do with the idea but on practice its hard.

for now i use it for time warp and other utilities my team needs but not for burst as i want to save CS for the escape

the best why to start playing with it is with skills recharge

time warp – put 1 clone or 2 use F5 and than time warp . new time warp will be w8 – huge advantage on the battle field

wells – same as above

blink, decoy – also very important

if you try to do several skills use which you wanna them to be ready than you need 3 clones for 6 sec duration. but be mindful that to do that you need to use F5 around the enemy

lets say i wanna use – blink->mirror->f1 twice. i need to create 3 clones first . which can be hard in group situation. the use F5 and fast the rotation.
3 out of 10 i manage to do so. very hard cause clones tend to die so fast

also good for disengage like portal. run away a bit in one direction use F5 blink , phase retreat , decoy and you will popup behind the enemy 1800 range and ready to disengage 1800 range more as those skills are ready

on golem which dont attack you for 10 sec till you kill them you can (if that what he meant infinite during fight)

i try dom/deul/chrono with power build – the dmg is huge due to 2 izerk shatter and 2 clones up for mirror instead of 1.
so i got no insp line with no heal on shatter and no condi cleanse which i think is not needed (shatter to do dmg and not to cleanse in defense mode)
its ok until i get no support from my team and leave me open to thief attacks or 1v2

i tried illu/duel/chrono with condi build also work great but i gave up chaos protection and reflect and stability so warrior and ranger are more dangerous.

i tried bunker with chrono/insp/chaos boon share – the support is amazing if your team knows what its doing but if they think you can hadle long enough 1v2 you are dead as you are not bunker guard

so i think chrono fits the support role where only with full team support you can do amazing things . in hot join or pug team you will face hard time

after few team fights (no full team) and few losses the chrono give nice support but pu power still got me after i have been burst in mili sec by 1 ele 1 mes 1 guard

but the doable time warp i did is nice

so no op at all maybe in 1v1

thief can kill us, guard with aoe and trap can kill all our clones so we cant stand on point, ranger trap the same warrior with the cleave unless you got chaos stability trait can kill you

its pretty easy to kill chrono when you know what to do- kill the clones

if they add icd the the traits than it will make the trait unuasable as you dont know when the trait is rdy to use your phantasm and shatter and same with clone. so it will become random trait so no one will use it

they add stun ability so the phantasm wont attack fast. so maybe just prolong the duration 0.5 sec.

necro – its dmg is huge huge huge in melee. i still dont know how ppl didnt see the 25 vulnerability stack +20% dmg below 50% hp and rune which add 7% and 50% crit chance when on ds.
sure its squishy as hell but in group fight where you get dd support and guard its hell.

guard – carrion atm is very nice on points 10 bleed +10 burning +poison + vulnerability. other than that didnt see why to use this trait line

slow can be transffered. testing it with necro and revenant who trasfer their condi to me

the problem with insp line and shatter build is when you need to cleanse you play defense and not offense thus you loosing some dmg for 10 -20 sec if you got burst from condi

dueling give you the blind on shatter trait which combine with ineptitude. so if no dueling no ineptitude is needed.

chaos line is nice for more defense and control so take sword pistol and scepter shield to maximize the benefit of it but than again is more dueling set

i use now dueling / illusion/ chrono so massive amount of illusions are rdy to shatter faster

i am so amazed of the mesmer community

you scream op when ppl around dont yet familiar with the chrono concept

i played condi shatter and have fought necro and after i told him how to beat me with condition transfer he rekt me
i have played the same with dd ele diamond skin and staff ele and the new trait ele , condi cant touch them
guard the same

so yes bit more slow from shield block mainly but hardly infinite

F5 very tricky to use so far but getting the hang of it

so if you want another mtd nerf call it op based on noob ppl you were fighting who dont know yet how to counter it

chrono is still like any other mesmer cant handle cc and conditions

its nice trait line which make you choose correctly between dom/insp/ duel as it should

regarding power build chrono with de gives so much illusion up for fast shattering so the dmg is buff with GS. but they nerf the GS dmg a bit so…
with signet of the ether i use one trick pony to create 2 izerk they do dmg and i shatter and again 2 pops up . but again i use my heal to do that…

dont go cleric go soldier. you will do more dmg and can support with well and boon share

ok test results

1. condi shatter – chrono/duel/illus – trait which give clone and phatasm when you shatter and DE
a. with almost perma 3 clonse up the dmg is insane – maybe now fits more the nerf on torment.
b. shield block is nice and if i block i wont shatter to put bit slow on my enemy. the daze is nice also and try to use it with staff/sword leap for combo.
c. well – well of action very nice indeed on point
d. slow is another condi to cover

short sum up – very good build of offence conditions with no chaos line so no stability and protection

2. powerblock – dom/deul/chrono
a. powerful with 2 izerk up
b. shield can do 5k dmg if interrupt and the slow with the block add to the chance of it
c. hard to notice you with all the clones around

again offence with no inspi trait line. i took inspi and it works well too

3. bunker – insp/chaos/chrono – soldier amulet – 1v2 versus zerk mes and revenant. kill them both after 2 min of fight without even trying. the block ability and the idefense and 9% less dmg with 3 illusion up all the time. regarding support boon share with signet only (unless dont take idefense) and 3 wells which cleanse 2 condi. healing , action and gravity.

nice trick to use in condi and power build with chornophantasma trait.
take signet of ether put your izerk up use the heal and use it again than shatter and 2 pops up again => huge burst
with shield you can block 4 times with it

F5 – didnt use it much on my duels and team fights as i need more time to get used to it

guys chorno is so bad i cant even describe it
its useless do nothing and give nothing at all
even f5 is weird

dont play it or we need anet to fix it

For pvp the basic combo is 4 from range than 2 with blink and shatter1 than 3 skill on gs and shatter 3 if used heal

Don’t use decoy just to create clone rather save it for defense

The basic opening is from stealth thus after you did your combo you can swap for sword combo and or go stealth with torch waiting for recharge

the problem i try to handle is staying on point for 1 min in 1v2 with 2 zerk
hard to do that while guard can

if i have time i will try condi, bunker and power version build

also want to test necro and guard

i tested cleric versus soldier. soldier gives more dmg which is nice to support and help your team
cleric give bit more healing (200 health) but less hp thus condition eventually can hurt you and less power

for both i would take crusader over cleric as it will net 100 les health on shatter and 200 less power but more crit dmg

bunker guard doest do dmg (unless with might stacks boon share) rather sit on point 1v2 and w8 for help and support with condi cleanse and heal

here is short vid i did year ago step by step

bound about face. press r to run , about face , heal ,about face

Silverkey.2078:

@messiah
I have been refining my idea by playing chaos-insp-illusion bunker these past days.
The well you mention, I would be tempted by well of action. But then we don’t have any sort of stunbreak. On my attempts without stun break, I was just push out of point and it took me too long to go back to it so they decapped.
I like the evade on the sword which is why I went for it instead of scepter, but going on condi can make sense (staff). Also scepter does more clone which is useful for the heal+cleanse on shatter.

My build on the current iteration (still need to actually try it)

• sword-shield/staff
• Well of Eternity, Well of Action, Blink or Mantra of Concentration, Signet of inspiration, Time Warp
• Illusionary defense, Chaotic dampening, Bountiful disillusionment
• ?, Restorative illusion, Illusionary inspiration
• All’s Well that Ends Well, Illusionary Reversion, Seize The Moment

I was tempted by chronophantasm but I just feel phantasms don’t last enough in 1vX. To make up for it, I add Illusionary Reversion to be shatter fodder. I have never shattered as much than with this build… Even without null field, we have more condi cleanse uptime than bunker guardian, but we have less “burst” cleanse. For the inspiration minor now that I have given up phantasms mostly, I lean towards Medic’s feedback.

stun break – staff phase retreat , stability with each shatter for 5 sec… stand on point and be amazed. i tested this build with soldier versus 1 rampager warrior and dd ele . they couldnt kill me for 2 min while both was on 50% hp and i was 80% hp
i choose scepter as it #3 hit good even with power and AA create clones
sword also good but less dmg no blind and work only melee so if you target range target you cant attack it but staff

bunker mesmer
chrono/insp/chaos

insp – heal / faster res and feedback/ boon share/ cleanse condi
chaos – reflect/protection/stab/another boons
chrono – alacrity/well support/quickness for stomp and res/25%move speed

utilities – 1 well /time warp/null/signet of inspiration
staff+scepter/shield – 3 block/ cc or 1 blind

condition wont touch you
boons will fly
fast res and stomp

this is sort of what i gonna test

interrupter
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMGtALcAXg~
slow on crit easy interrupt for more slow and dmg.

condi shatter
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMGmAP8Bbw~
no DE, blind and ineptitude but more slow and scepter speed. with some nice trick in my sleeve (hope it works)

bunker
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMG5AP8BGw~
well, null field, feedback, time warp, boon share , high armor and vitality, immune to condi , stability and protection …. boring but may be effective

i tried to go hybrid my self in wvw
the problem i find versus good players is if they go power they can burst better than me
if they go condi they can do better sustain dmg while playing defensive
while in wvw you are not confided to an area like pvp it bit tricky with hybrid
on paper it does more theory dmg but in reality it doesnt

try to get 1500 condi dmg and 2k power
find a way to boost up with some might stacks like battle sigils

i dont see any problem in power mesmer
the problem i see is in other classes. ele dmg is bit higher but stay the same meta with cele. but they got nice escape and cleanse buff which make them to stay alive longer
same for engi , guard, warrior etc (but thief). maybe i worng i dont know but to take someone 100-0 in 1 combo is just big no even if he is below average player.

all in all in any fight i had the past week i saw 1-2 mesmer in each group. if the dmg is so low why not just reroll.

also the problem is they didnt fix what was needed. now almost every mesmer i see is power pu (common) while the good ones dont stay longer and just kiting the bad ones just enjoy while in stealth. boring

serenke.4806:

The answer is simple. You will feel utterly useless as condi mesmer if the enemy team has a dd ele or a bunker guardian and you are trying to fight in fights involving those.

So if you REALLY want to use condi, pick your fights. No matter what the condi mesmers on the forums say, you will be dead weight to your team if you try to take down those heavy condi cleanse classes.

not exactly true

if they have only 1 bunker or 1 dd ele the condi shines as it can push them to use utilities earlier. dont go for 1v1 but in team fight your team may target the zerk while you pressure the dd ele or bunker . it will be sure win

if there are 2 dd ele or 1 bunker 1 dd ele than dont fight there just split to far or close and hold it as you can hold better while doing pressure versus bunker class

if the enemy team got good aoe cleanse than its a risk but never the less while power will pressure to use heal you can pressure to use heal and clease

so its about your team composition and not just you playing condi

yeap power will defently benefit from this elite trait line

condi bit less

also bunker chaos/insp/chrono could be unkillable while doing good dmg with 30%+20% crit chance

who take mass invis in pvp (not wvw i mean)?

mirror is so great with heal and blink for 6 second i can drop 6k dmg if the enemy is range me

in wvw dont take this trait if you pu as you can disengage freely from every situation

i am up with testing build