Guild Wars 2

Zoser.7245:

Interesting, delete the plus of illusions from the mechanic of mesmers to mitigate their burst from stealth…. I’m curious, what would you change first of the engineers that can burst you from stealth at medium-long range?
And of rangers with those stackable trapper runes + QZ + RF + RF after change the set of weapons and from any distance?
And of thiefs that always have a extra burst from stealth inherent to their traits and skills?

before trapper runes ranger use stealth to re-positioning which is what stealth ment to do . also engi used stealth the same mainly if they felt the pressure on them. now with all the power bugs they use it to sneak on you with grenades

stealth should be mainly for thieves to be used. so if so and you right thieves burst comes with stealth ability make them revealed 1-2 sec after they stand near you

i just dont want ppl to abuse stealth rather used it as it brakes the game .especially pu mesmer

Necrotize.2974:

messiah.1908:

i hate stealth abilities longer then 4 sec. stealth supposed to be a mechanism which should be used as re-positioning or disengage and not moving from point to point unseen thus SR for 15 sec is a joke also the buff to pu the same 10 sec and 6 sec????

for mesmer they should do that if illusion hit or created you get revealed

maybe also a unique change which if you stealth and walk close to your enemy you get unstealth (not revealed) so you can choose or to attack or gain stealth again

this way mesmer and thief will choose carefully when to attack and the enemy can move around to try to unstealth them.

The first change would cause accidental reveal a huge amount of the time and would probably be way worse than thieves dreaded Last Refuge minor trait. Mesmer already has an issue with bouncing projectiles causing reveal, but with that change it’d make using any kind of stealth while holding a staff almost impossible unless you literally shatter then do nothing(not even dodging) until all the clones reach your target. So stealth would essentially be better for your opponent than it would be for the person actually trying to use it.

As for the unstealth near enemies, that would also kinda defeat the purpose of having stealth. Decoy and the Prestige would fall off almost immediately in a lot of situations since they are typically used while disabled or in melee range. Mesmers and thieves already don’t make good on-point pressure, that change would pretty much doom them to roaming forever as stealth would be almost entirely useless anywhere near a small scale fight with several opponents.

the first change make the mesmer using stealth when needed and not abusing it like burst or disengage. thus destroy your clones before you stealth. which make sense as with burst you wanna been seen and not instagab from stealth. and for disengage also dont leave behind illusions to do your dmg

for the second if you cant cap point why using stealth on the point as you cant cap. this change make thieves and mesmer use stealth from bit range above 130r and not just standing and abusing stealth till the right moment come.

but i see your concerns

i hate stealth abilities longer then 4 sec. stealth supposed to be a mechanism which should be used as re-positioning or disengage and not moving from point to point unseen thus SR for 15 sec is a joke also the buff to pu the same 10 sec and 6 sec????

for mesmer they should do that if illusion hit or created you get revealed

maybe also a unique change which if you stealth and walk close to your enemy you get unstealth (not revealed) so you can choose or to attack or gain stealth again

this way mesmer and thief will choose carefully when to attack and the enemy can move around to try to unstealth them.

ok so as for now we cant call it Mtd as the confusion is our main source of dmg

so i called it “Confucius Blindness Ineptitude” (sure its not my build but i loved the name)

“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached (mtd), don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps”

here is few combos with scepter/torch and fun moments in hotjoin (not tpvp)

hope you like it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j05Xfy_o8e4&feature=youtu.be

MailMail.6534:

trooper.2650:

Tried the build MailMail posted and it was fun with certain professions, but mesmers.
Power-interrupt mesmers can have the opening on you thanks to the 1200 range MoD, followed by mirror blade blink shatter which puts a lot of pressures from start. So I found myself often on the defensive side, running away, trying to let pistol doing his bleeds and conditions ticking.

Yeah, I find the only hard match up to be that of guardian and diamond skin ele for several obvious reasons. Ironically, I have more trouble with power mesmers on my other two builds. The key is baiting out a good Scepter 2 every chance you get and early (Chaos Storm, Spatial Surge and Illusionary Wave are easy to block). It instantly puts power Mesmers on the the defensive since they don’t have a choice but to rapidly keep moving even if they haven’t cleared the condition. Other tips on facing power Mesmers with my maim build:

• Get into Melee range. Even if you don’t have a full clone shatter, the aoe Blind will protect you, and the 2+ stacks of confusion and stack of torment will slowly eat at them. Letting them kite is the worst thing you can do as it gives them free fire/lightning procs and the opportunity to set up their burst. Don’t run away. Get in their face.
• Space out your condi applications in between letting clones do the dmg. This way, if they have ample condi clear, you can continue to apply dmg even after they clear.
• I can’t emphasize enough to ensure that your Scepter Block connects with the Mesmer instead of a clone.

yes power mesmer is my nemesis thus i try to play aggressively and with blind it become more easy if played right.
to proc block torment w8 for him to use i zerk and let the animation to finish then you have 4 sec before it do it again so the Mesmer will attack with #3 or #2 so use the block.
or if you fast blink to him and use blind with f1 shatter then no i zerk for him create 2 clones with MI and dodge and f2+f3 = 10 confusion +6 torment and blind then use scepter 3 for 6 more confusion. he will disengage with torch stealth or die

trooper.2650:

What is the build you used in the video?

Tried the build MailMail posted and it was fun with certain professions, but mesmers.
Power-interrupt mesmers can have the opening on you thanks to the 1200 range MoD, followed by mirror blade blink shatter which puts a lot of pressures from start. So I found myself often on the defensive side, running away, trying to let pistol doing his bleeds and conditions ticking.

I tried a variation with glamour traited and I really like the effect you get: superspeed + staff + blink I was able to survive to 2 mes (1 lockdown 1 shatter PU) the entire match. They litterally chased me. I was going form one point to another decapping and running. At one point I think it became a matter of pride for them and they just kept running after myself, so we won. But I cannot say I killed many

This is my feeling now: power is the meta for mesmer and conditions not so much, thanks to the MtD nerf. I also tried condi with no MtD and didn’t really notice much difference tbh. Unfortunately, MtD is now what it used to be before the buff… useless. Or just one condition more to add to the lot

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3lZ;1VPV1127wUV71;9;4TUW;0138258256;4hsGAT;1hoHAhoHA2p

1v1 condi shatter is good (some scenarios even great)
in group fight not so good unless you manage to target 1 and be on him to pressure him to be on defense or off the area to regen and when you see him using his important skills call your team and target him for fast burst.

with power shatter (as much as i like the interrupts) its more to be on range as AA gs and i zerk as you dont have many opportunities to 1v1 or even shatter with group fight cause of cleaves and aoe and when you do then its mostly 3v2 so then you become more dangerous to burst in with sword+gs combo 100-0 for fast 3v1.

but yes the meta for all classes is power and not condi

even with 2 stacks of mtd it was power

now i am trying to find some tactics and combos against each profession even in group fight to see if i can make a change of mind – its hard

go https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mtd-second-try-in-tpvp/first#post5234252

i made nice combo layout which can do in pve 21 cpnfusion and 6 torment and with staff more bleeding poison burning

in pvp works the same but with more cleanse so you have to bait them out with staff a bit
in wvw the combo killing ppl fast if they spam skills like hs thieves

ok i practice on combo bit more

i now can get max 21 confusion (combo like the power shatter f1+f2+f3)
on average it gets about 17 (unless block evades)
not on guards or ele but on necro, mesmer, thief and engi and sometime warrior

on guard and ele it gets 5-10 max

combo is one trick pony and fast

scepter torch

scepter 2 (activate it for blind) – blind prevent opening by enemy
scepter 3
torch 4 in melee

gives 8 stacks of confusion

torch 5 for burning and illusion meat
mi for 2 fast clones
f2
f1
f3

give another 13 stacks of confusion

total 21 stacks and than go for staff to create clones and chaos armor and buy some time and conditions as in 20 sec you can burst again or in 10 sec burst for 10 confusion

dmg over time 1800
dmg per skill use 3000
duration if not cleanse 6 sec
torment 6 stacks for 8 sec dmg when moving is 1000 dps
so total potential dmg for 6 seconds is 16800+3000 per skill used so probably 2 which get 22600 dmg

use it below 50% hp and when some cleanse where used = down enemy

fire and air are crit base and with carrion you get 4% and with fury 24% and with sword +15% so 39% for about 4 sec as u need to use meditation which yield just about another burn tick

with gs +sc which immobilize you can ji (inner fire proc use gs aoes skills and you proc much more

yeap group fight is an issue especially when you fight against guards and ele together not to mention warriors . their cleanse ability are vast and effective.

but as i said before the patch condi mesmer are the ones who can make those enemies to use utilities, skills earlier in the fight which make them vulnerable after

consider dd ele which you manage to put 6 stacks of confusion he will go water or use utility to cleanse thus not using fire ability
consider warrior using shout or warhorn he will be vulnerable after with less boons
consider guardian using his f2 or shouts or heal

with power shatter all you have to use is heal or get regen while they cant contest in group fight with all the dmg thus being great target for thief or other mesmer or ranger (range v range)

sure the power mesmer has nice first burst with gs illusion and mind and now can stun . to blind he need to be in melee range so big no for him with group fight

to condi mesmer to be in melee with 2.8k armor is much easier so more blind

also i find very effective is when enemy is down the other enemies try to res to i create 6 clones and shatter on the down to make nice aoe condi pressure while my team does cleave which almost always 1 more get down or even 2

but yes even with 2 torment stacks it will be hard in group fight unless you target the ele or guard to push them to use skills

MailMail.6534:

Windwalker.7421:

It’s just really hard to justify playing anything but a power shatter at the moment. I never thought it possible, but it seems even more true than before the patch, and certainly after the gutting of MtD.

I have had fantastic results winning 80%+ of my matches with Condi Shatter, Signet Power Shatter and Support Signets. There’s so much build diversity for Mesmers right now. I’m sorry you feel this way. Even with shatter, there’s several ways to make it effective. The only tree that is necessary is Dueling. Illusions isn’t even completely necessary.

I have to figure out a way to record without it making me lag in games like last night. Instead of me just saying how effective MtD is in team play (specifically the AOE and single-target confusion application), I think I need hard evidence to prove it to you guys!! ahahha

could you try post some group play as its so hard to put aoe conditions to actually do dmg beside blind which mitigate dmg

i dont take it offensively and i said i had bad moment

versus the second mesmer i manage to burst him down as i manage to anticipate his moves and skills / also as it was open field without any obejective as to decap

if you could heard the shouts of my team lossing mid and me decide to push far to split their forces while i knew enemy guardian is down and gonna be respond so 1v2 . i wanted to save skills and used them all instead as i panic (my nemesis is power shatter)

the other encounter was good 1v1 thief, ele, thief, guard, engi which i won

cant agree more that for now short meta power is the best (and probably will stay mostly)
but it will be tune down (i hope and guess) and also the hugs and burning procs.

i guess some ppl want to see just success in the videos with no mistakes . sry they feel this way. i put video with almost no editing mainly always from yesterday fights and not w8ing a month to choose only the bigest moments.

like MailMail i had much success in team arena with condi shatter in 1v1 and 1v2 getting the best results and points
also with bunker healing and condi cleanse and boon share
also with power block

but hope anet will buff mtd back so we can be more effective

MailMail.6534:

2. Not very effective. Burning is insanely strong. The strongest condi above confusion. However, I think that’s more of a reflection on burn [and the need for it to be nerfed] than it is on Maim. Necro condi builds are supposed to be the best condi builds in the game. Engineer has a higher condi burst than we do. That’s always been weird to me. That being said, there are still 2 unique things that our condi build can potentially offer that others can’t:

• Boon removal & Disruption (Domination)
• On-demand stability for stomps (Chaos)

burning is insane and probably be nerfed not by dmg rather by classes application (like cd etc)

i feel ragarding condition procing that the mesmer is the best so far.

necro cant stack torment and confusion like we do, the burning is the same . but necro has fear which alongside signet burst can few scepter AA is huge condi pressure

engi also cant stack condi like we do. most of them i see doing 5 bleed, 5 confusion, 5 burning, and 3 poison with huge stacks of vulnerability. the main dmg comes also from direct dmg with grenades and bomb which we lack. but also engi got better healing and blocking ability (2 shields) and faster cd on condi abilities.

but regarding the conditions themselvs mesmer for me before (the patch) produce higher conditions . as for now after the patch bleeding 3-5, burning 1, confusion 10, torment 10 , poison 1-2, blind (almost perma), vulnerability 2-5, weakness

which is the best (i like so much mesmer) engi so far

yes i know condi now can be main problem
this why i take null field and torch and 2 sigils of generosity
with inspiration i lose or dueling with de so ilose burst moments
or i lose chaos so no stability or chaos armor with blind proc

so far 1v1 i manage to handle burning guardian preety well and some engi and ele
its hard but doable as they dont have much condi so its easy to cleanse the burning stacks . also i think anet will tune down them a bit soon.

i feel inspiration is more for power mesmer thans condi one. and when chrono will come it will be harder choise to make . chorno + illusion, dueling or chaos

this time my team tried another approach
i was far holder trying to lure 1v2 to give them advantage even if i die while trying to decap if possible. as 1v1 this build is solid and even some 1v2 depend on the enemy comp

i did too many mistake as i was pressure (by the mesmer) but handle it ok i think

your thoughts are welcome

Korusef.3714:

@MailMail:
The questions are:
How effective is this build if you pick one of the other traits than MtD?
How effective is it when compared to other condition builds out there? (Namely burning right now.)

1v1 this build still works just fine as in blind constantly so giving you time to your condition to tick

but in group play where constantly condition get cleanse you need fast short burst of 2-3 sec to you condi to tick so you need higher dmg output .

at the moment i play with guildies and they like this build cause i am the resser and stomper with stability while they burst. i can spam blind, and pressure with low condi dmg and give chaos armor
i can hold 1v1 points even against burn guard and dd ele and engis (not 100% but can)
i can hold 1v2 for few seconds in some scenarios so my team got advantage even if i die we get 2 points at least

so even if we get 2 torment back to be effective in group fight with condition still be hard but at least if i catch some one with 15 stacks of torment it will hurts for 2 sec with 6k dmg and not 2k dmg

this is my variant of bunker build
it cant take down any enemy but can hold while support very nice my team
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-RFFZ;1ZUk3127RWV71;9;4TUV;0138158146;4hwGAU;1F-03F-036W

blind when shatter
great condi removal for party and self with shatter mantra and null
great healing with mantra and shatter
good self stability to res and stomp
block proc defender to negate some dmg for 1-3 sec
null remove boons and time warp slow and give aoe quickness

i dont think burning need a nerf rather every class aplication skills

with guard the gave 1 sec icd on block with make now only 1 stacks of burning instead of 5
so with concertration maybe also icd of burning needed or only if you croos inside and not every time you pass it (50% nerf)
with torch put icd of 1 sec for each enemy get hit

thus you burning will get around 10 stacks which is nice 4k dps

few questions and suggestions

1. are conditions builds viable for pvp or the meta still zerker one? (taking into account some burning build will get nerfed)
2. if conditions viable in pvp which class is the best?

necro – necro as i see it can proc almost every conditions and master of bleeding poison along side fear (as cc). their average stacks are 10 bleeding , 3 poison, 3 torment and 1 burning. great aoe cc with fear and rip boons. so can get nice 2.5k dps with conditions

ranger – manster of bleeding and poison with good burning abilities . mostly 1v1 as lacking group support cc etc…. their average 1v1 is 15 bleed, 5 poison and 5 burning in good combo. so can get 4k dps with conditions

engi – master of all conditions especially those who do dmg and aoe ones (not torment) along side good blocking and self sustain. in average can do 5 bleed, 5 burning, 5 confusion, 2 poison, 1 torment (sigil) and huge bulnerability. can get also 4k dps with conditions

ele – condi ele can do huge burning condition and nice bleeding , but mainly burning. good sustain and party cleanse but again mainly 1v1 . after nerf i think it will cause around 8-10 stacks of burning (and not 18) so the average dmg will be around 4k dps

warrior – with great ability to bleed (15+ stakcs) he is more 1v1 also with good torment 5 stacks . around 3k dps

guardian – burning mainly with good aoe but less party support but good cleanse iwth f2+concentration. after nerfed as doing 35 stacks is insane i think it will be around 15 stacks which will give 5k dps

mesmer – master of torment 5-10 stacks , master of confusion 10 stacks , with nice aoe application and aoe blind . and without shattering staff clone can get also nice bleed stacks +10 (not in pvp i think). good stability and can be condi lock also . torment and confusion can do with 10 stacks both around 3k dps (depend on enemy using skills)

so you may say condi mes has good dps and sustain with stability and blind . but to reach 3k dps your clones must shatter. in pvp on points there are many aoe, cleaves which kills your clones. so while other may just hit to proc conditions if your clones get dodge, block, blind, or killed you have to create 3 more clones which take more time for just to w8 on skills cd

so it seems condi memser have to work harder to proc conditions (not talking passive pu mesmer with staff rather shatter condi)

if that is the case i think mesmer need buff to conditions

torment (as everyone think) must be 2 stacks so our burst if hit can do 15 stacks of torment which add 1k dps
also torch burning need to do 3 stacks and not 1 (every other class got theirs buff). so it will add 700 dps

so in total in average fight we can have almost 5k dps which may be par with guard

sure with perfect shatter you could do 20 stacks of torment like a warrior can do 20 stacks of bleeding and ranger 20 stack of bleeding and 15 stacks of poison and guard 20 stacks of burning etc….

even if it will be like that still condi shatter will have harder time to get into the pvp meta like engi or necro with cc abilities. but who knows

wvw roaming – pu condi rabid gear staff +sc/t or sw/p
www zerg – power pu zerker gs + staff

i think Anet after seen what have been done to mesmer and its community diecide to hold any more nerf which defenetly needed (burning abilities) and let things settle down (as they should have done)
and probably issue all lement together and not class by class

but yes nerfing 4 stacks of torment to get 1 stack of confusion is huge nerf for all game style (not consider pu play style which i hate)

burning guard as much as i loved to play it before this patch become so worng

30-40 burning stacks can down any zerk class in 1 sec

they gave us 1 stack of confusion and took 4 stacks of torment …. this is the real nerf

for 10 hours i could handle thieves and now its more more harder then before

lot stronger???? are more 4-5 stacks mean lot stronger?

but as you said they reduce 1 torment and gave 1 confusion ability when blind

but i think torment is more stronger than confusion as it prevent moving

but also the abilities now which cleanse so often ether way giving you low chance to be effective in tpvp

Windwalker.7421:

messiah.1908:

bring mtd 2 stacks back and nerf pu 50% instead

Nah, just nerf MtD Torment duration by 50%, and you’d have a powerful yet totally balanced and viable Condition Shatter build again. Lacking the ability to punish your opponent quickly is the key issue with the now lacking Condition options for Mesmers.

.

6 sec torment which is 8 sec with runes and trait will become 4 sec (50% nerf)

with 4 sec and rune which lower condi duration on you by 20% it become 3 sec
in wvw with food it become 1-2 sec

so 50% nerf is too much 33% is more balance

dont forget

warrior and ele got immunity abilities
resistance boon
cleanse abilities which now is bit more frequent

before the patch i could do 15 stacks of torment for 3 sec it did 9k dmg and with confusion and other conditions it did 12 k dmg – almost par with powerblock mesmer burst versus your high armor so condi needs 2 burst combo to down someone while powerblock need 1

yes pretty much mtd is dead unless you dont run with condi cleanse

solution is to bring mtd to GM with 2 stacks and malicious sorcery to master.

this way mtd will compete with ineptitude

thus for 1v1 confusion and blind may be better and team fight mtd is better

you dont have to lower the duration as you saw it was cleanse frequently (and dont forget about runes and food which lower your condition duration up to 66% so from 8 sec it will be 2.3 sec thus with 4 sec it will be 1 sec (again too much nerf))

few whispers while fighting in the arenas

warrior – lol, you evade all my kd skills with blind and stability. i was perma blind
thief – man the confusion was 15 gg
mesmer power block – how you got so much stability
ele – noob go play pve with conditions
guard – condi wont work you noob
burning guard – wow you transfer my 8 stacks of burning
engi – gg man you manage 1v2 us and down the memser. share build

ally – thanks for the res (was in 2v4)

but sry to say in tpvp it will be hard to make this build good in high tier even if we get 2 stacks of torment … like before

theory.3580:

I think the “blinds inflict confusion” and the “shatters inflict blind” skills really save condi shatter and make it good. 1 less torment is applied per illusion now, but 1 blind and 1 more confusion per illusion are applied instead.

I feel like it’s got the survivability of way, way old PU builds (before they added extra boons to water down the aegis and protection uptime) because of all the blind spam, and has pretty much the same offensive capabilities for a roamer as MtD pre-nerf, since you’re really just trading torment for confusion and blind. The torch phantasm doing burning/fury now is just icing on the cake of an already-strong build.

Decry it all you want, I’ll be in wvw inflicting 15 stacks of confusion instantly (scepter#3 + cry of frustration) and watching thieves autoattack twice and die, or die when they try to use their interrupt to stop scepter#3, lol.

the problem with confusion its low scale of dmg versus mtd

the blind is nice but force you to be in melee range to blind with shatter while mtd doesnt really (before patch)
the blind is nice against melee but in pvp you lose you edge in dmg bursting conditions

try to stack 15 confusion on dd ele or warrior in tpvp more than 2 sec…..

the build is very good in 1v1 in holding point even against powerblock (stability spamming and blind) but in 3v3 4v4 you dont do much dmg like other classes or builds and this is the main problem which i hope anet would have fixed but didnt

this is the reason i take null field and time warp to be more supporting and to be bit more useful in team fight

pu build are broken atm. i have hight rate of winning just playing from stealth and doing nothing and let my clones/phantasms to their trick

even though pu is for roaming and 1v1 its duration is too long

bring mtd 2 stacks back and nerf pu 50% instead

Curunen.8729:

Looking forward to your video messiah. Will be interesting to compare with your videos from before the patch.

its up and already ppl say its crap (i cant say i feel otherwise) but still good build

Amityel.5324:

bad build sorry

you dont have to be sorry

i am also feel mtd nerfed to the ground
sure i can do 15 stacks of torment in theory if my enemy has no cleanse but in real fight (not eotm goem) its gonna be 5 stacks in average

the upside of it i have 2.8k armor , best stability ever, protection vigor and regen so i can stay on point longer while doing some pressure and group support
while power shatter is mainly for high fast burst from range so very different play style

you can see me fight 1v2 power shatter on far while my conditions tick by tick pressure them till my allies came to finished the job

anet must realise that and buff back to 2 torment stacks if they want condi mesmer to be viable

Saturn.6591:

messiah.1908:

short toturial for new mesmers and tpvp ranked game play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXtJHDH1yq8&feature=youtu.be
from yesterday fights so i didnt looked for great moments just load it up

Your video is set to private. Might want to change that; so people can actually watch it. ^^

was in upload mode

now its ready

here is the new build (not mine so be calm)
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3lZ;1VPV1127wUV71;9;4TUW;0138258256;4hsGAT;1hoHAhoHA2p

instead of ineptitude you can take malicious sorcery as 10 sec cd for 1 confusion may not worth it

for tpvp mainly

basic:
stability = safe stomp and res and good control the point
protection = reduce dmg . uptime long. reduce staff skills
4-8 boons = prolong boons duration and condition duration 10-20%
good aoe control and support with chaos storm null field time warp
blind spamming
good cleanse with sigils null field and torch trait
average conditions dmg (why average ? because other can do it far better with burning stacking op)

video (is up)

short toturial for new mesmers and tpvp ranked game play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXtJHDH1yq8&feature=youtu.be
from yesterday fights so i didnt looked for great moments just load it up

guys you forget something

confusion on shatter was there before the patch so confusion stacking was always there
now the torment got nerfed to mtd build got nerfed whether you can stack confusion
as you could did it before

Mailmail – video is uploading so i would love to hear your thoughts

for condi mes this is the standard setup mostly
your sword make it more dueling aspect than team fight
but your slow mobility affect you dueling capability

good build overall (not great) and wont become meta with low slow condi dmg

i have somehow almost the same concept

video is uploading and i will post (my buid) soon

i will post soon few fight in tpvp with mtd build basicaly the same as Mailmail post but different utilities to be more supporting

its nice but the old mtd did more dmg and pressure while now i can do average dmg and compare it to other classes subpar with their dmg like engi, guard, ele etc.

average 8 stacks of torment and 10 confusion while before the patch i could do 12 stacks and 10 confusion (average)

maybe they are afraid that with chrono line we could be doing op dmg with just spamming f1-f5 and all over again f1+f4 doing on golem maybe 40 stacks of torment …..

but forgot to see that we burns all our shattering and defense abilities

few team fights in tpvp random pugs i was able to hold point versus warrior, ele , engi, thief 1v1 with 1 torment stack
then they came 1v2 warrior and engi and still manage to down 1 and stomp but thief came and burst me so i blink away and got killed with steal

anet nerf bit more torment put it from 1 stack to 0.5 stacks

but with full team (where ppl new how to handle conditions) warrior was immune basically all the fight to conditions, ele manage to cleanse always, thief abuse stealth, engi run back heal and engage so i had harder time to handle them and died 50% of the time (with thief 80%) not to mention in 3v3 they support each other with cleanse

so i think i may go back to fight golems now

:D

also i wanted to try hybrid with carrion gs+staff and now i cant as i must take scepter or my dmg will be very low compare to other condi classes and builds.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Hello mesmers! Come out of stealth for a second and talk about specializations!

oh i use to w8 5 sec now you w8 10 sec lol….

regarding pvp (not pve or wvw)

1. am i enjoy it? yes lockdown memser as other have said will become meta. mid low tier its too easy sometimes

2. GM trait power block atm

3. PU need to be deleted it ruined mtd . it got buffed 100% which hardly needed for average players. as it not support shatter play stlye rather stealth game stlye.
in pvp you hardly need stealth. myabe for short disengage . and thief should be the stealth master not mesmer.
4. power block and CI yes really strong and remind me GW1
5. chaos or inspiration chaos for sure but with chrono out it wont be needed as much unless anet will nerf it like mtd
6. condition recharge? i like the pistol recharge but it force you for a certain of combo which after a while can be predicted. i would combine between passive and active recharge like 10% flat recharge and another 3-5% if conditions are met
7. mimic? used it with mtd when it was 2 stacks to burst with MI twice and fast. other then that not very strong with 90 sec cd
8.* time warp* i used it with mtd shatter when it was 2 stacks to control the point and doing fast massive dmg with my team . but power shatter needs moa for a fast burst while condi shatter can take it instead
9. other mesmer fights against pu power or condi – hate it hate it. although we used to win in pvp as they cant control the point the have nice 1v1 abilities defense and offence combined. as playing thief against pu now i have to count his skills before i use SR and burst him down or just walk away
10. how do you feel about mtd nerf? – didnt get it at all while other classes can do 5k dps with condi we can do 3k top for 3 sec and w8 for another 20 icd. while other w8 only 5-10 sec for skills recharged. condi shatter will be gone (pu condi is not a build to play with). it just make me play condi with other classes

MailMail.6534:

SPOILER ALERT - incoming change of heart.

I spent the evening play testing Condition Shatter. Yes, I’ve found a new love with my signet support mesmer and I’ve enjoyed bursting noobs down to dirt with my power signet shatter… but I couldn’t help but give Maim another shot considering it’s what I’ve been my main for months now.

The build I’m running: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3SZ;1VPV1187wW-71;9;4UTW;0258238056;4TwW6U;1hoHAhoHA2G

Pre-revamp, as pyro would say, confusion was an “idiot-tax” in Maim builds, but confusion has been excellently buffed in pvp in its current state. I now understand why they thought 1 stack of torment would be enough. The AOE confusion application even without Confusing Combatants is really strong. At this point, I would consider torment a tax, but not an “idiot tax” since it’s pretty difficult to avoid moving during battles.

I still need to get with my pvp guild to do organized 5 person play, but I have literally been rekting in ranked solo q… 1k confusion ticks have been very common due to the following:

• Evade/Block —> blind --> 7s 10sICD
• Chaos Armor —> 5s
• Chaos Armor —> Blind --> 7s
• Magic Bullet —> 3rd bounce Blind --> 7s
• Magic Bullet —> 4th bounce 8s.
• Counterspell —> 7s
• Confusing Images —> 6 stacks 12s.
• Signet of Midnight —> 7s
• Shatters all will cause at least kitten stack of confusion (2 for F2). Enemies in melee range will receive an additional 7s stack from blind.

This is all to say that you will have a constant stream of stacks of confusion on your enemy and similarly to how torment works, it’s a “pick your poison” type of way to receive damage. I don’t know guys. After testing things out, I’m not as upset about the end result of the maim nerf.

That being said, the nerf to maim is STILL representative of what I previously said. And I can’t say it enough, so I’ll requote myself:

And just for the record, I don’t see anything majorly bad about the Power Block nerf. I also didn’t see anything too bad with the Staff nerf except you over-nerfed it when 3% would have been more balanced (basic math proves this). The biggest issue is the maim nerf, because it simply reinforces the trend that has happened with Mesmers since the game came out.

Rinse wash repeat with the devs:

• Quick to “fix bugs” that lessen Mesmer effectiveness.
• Quick to fix bugs on other classes that boost their effectiveness.
• Slow to fix our bugs.
• Quick to nerf our traits/skills.
• Slow to nerf traits/skills of other classes. See Healing Signet & Turrets.

this is the exact build i tested after mtd nerfed
also was playing it in full team pvp 5v5
sry to say its weak
sure i could stack bunch of confusion but it hardly did significant dmg to my target

anets wanted us to shatter which means short burst with shatter skills and not DOT play style

hardly could pressure my enemy not to talk about ele, warrior , guard and thief

thus the torment must be back with 2 stack for shorter duration of 4 sec 33% nerf. as we need short burst dps and not longer dot which will be cleanse

i tested all classes condi builds. below comparison codni dot for 3 sec (in average fight)

d/f ele cuase 10-15 burninng stack with poison and 3 bleed (sigils) for 3 sec the dps is 4.5k-5k = 15k dmg
engi 10 burning stacks with poison, 3 bleed, 5 confusion kitten dps = 15k dmg
guardian 8-10 burning with 3 bleed and poison and retaliation 15k dmg
ranger poison master 10-15 poison stacks and 5-10 bleed 3.5k dps = 10k dmg
p/d thief 3 poison, 5 -8 bleed, 5 confusion, 2 torment 2.5-3k dps = 9k dmg
necro – 5-10 bleed, 2 poison, 2 fear, 1-2 torment 2.5-3k dps = 8k dmg
mesmer – 6- 10 torment, 6-10 confusion, 2-3 bleed, 1 poison, 1 burning 3k dps – 9k dmg

so you might says mesmer in bit low (and you can do lots more stacking, but i am talking in average and not burning all your skills) but ok.
mesmer dmg relay on shatter cd and clone creation while other classes relay only on skill cd
this is why mesmer needs more condi dmg output cause against average player who can dodge 3 clones running at him, or blind block etc i need to create another 3 clones (so i need to dodge, use skills and also w8 for F1-F2 to recharge)

lol am i the only one who testing condi builds ?

currently condi aspect of thief isnt need by any group in pvp. they want dmg, cc, support or combination of them
condi thief dont support, dont cc, and do far less dmg then any other condi class.

so buff the leech to support more with healing and dmg from 380 dmg to 500, and healing from 325 to 400
reduce venom icd from 32 to 20
give cc abilities like spider venom will poison (for 4 sec each attack) and daze for 1 sec
devourer venom will immobilize and and cripple for 3 sec for each attack
ice drake will chill and burn (2 stack of burn each attack for 3 sec each )
basilisk venom will cleanse 2-3 condition for each attack used (not hit)

the concept of venom to be able to stunbreak or cleanse is hard cause venoms are offensive and you cant put them together

condi thief should be played with a group to support you

with those suggestions condi will be more offensive and par with other conditions dmg in solo and group play
you’ll have access to burning for short spike dmg (around 2k dps for 2 sec in average so not too OP)
more cc with daze (and venom share it very nice contribution)
and more healing and dmg from leeching

then we will need to make the team to believe its working

only focusing condi build

i tested again venom share p/d thief with group
its strong but not a meta and cannot handle bunker guard with dd ele

for the thief to be more party play style i think venom need some rework

regarding conditions

thief (and necro) is the only class which didnt enjoy the condi buff
especially burning

poison trait is too weak only 10% which need to be buffed to 30%
also dagger poison need to be 50% so more d/d condi option
our bleeding is too weak but we have access to many cover conditions
condi thief mainly 1v1 and roaming and to make it party play style give the venom more leeching hp and dmg (and if its to op make it only for our allies)

our poison with venom share can do 1.2k dps along side bleeding 600 dps and confusion 500 dps which is right now very low compare to other condi build

venom is a problematic as you cannot make them condi cleanse or break stun as they are purely offensive utilities

so condi thief got problem if they wanna enter the pvp arena (not just low tier)

i think every class should have 2 builds option of power and condi for every game aspect (pve, wvw, roaming, pvp). but at the moment it seems condi is more roaming 1v1 build

gg really but the mtd nerf not in place which remove condi build (pu clone its not a build its harassment)

use d/f more burning and more control and more defense with focus

15 burning stack which probably gonna be nerf

hello fellow thieves

so i brought back my panicond build from the dust and tried it in tpvp with my group while using venom share.

why panicond – when you use your conditions it will be 5-8 so it make your enemy panic and spam cleanse/stunbreak etc..

your venoms make your team for shorter duration to be like +1 and they become condi class with 1500 condi dmg

with the new patch allowing you to stack conditions while poison is one of them combine it with leech abilities you and your team can do huge burst in team fight

short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpVd31OMneI&feature=youtu.be

build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gR3V;1Vw-d0Y5FOFd0;9;4IKM;0147258048;4XwW7U;1l6Uwl6Uw1C

gameplay:
dont play alone rather look for 2v2, 3v3, 2v1 etc
your contribution come from venoms thus if playing alone go zerker d/p

with low armor and no stun break be careful and have good map awareness

try to move with your team so you share your venom

dont pop them all at once as leech can proc only with 1 venom (no stacking) so pop them 1 after the other unless you think you can burst faster with condi pressure

when using basilisk let your team do the first attack so you can chain a stun longer (practice it)

call target

in 3v3 call target so your 2 allies will attack it and you can attack and pressure other player so your condi pressure will put him in defense mode

you can do 1v1 but against good condi cleanse class like ele, warrior dont waste your time too much

it will be harder for you to cap like any thief build so dont try unless its free (again low armor)

try use your venom with sneak attack for faster application and stacking

before the first engagement use SR and use all venom . then the enemies wont see you running venoms and your team got full of it on them. its one trick pony but works . so in 4v4 you can split 2-2 targeting 2 enemies fast like you were 3v2

dmg:

venom dmg
spider venom – 6 stack of poison 750 dps. so with each ally its another 750 dps
skale venom – 4 vulnerability which means +4% dmg direct and condi, torment will do 800 dps if target moving

leeching dmg:
leeching – 385 per strike so with 10 strike (6+4) 3850 dmg for each ally
healing leech – 325 so 3250k healing
sigil – every swap 975 dmg and heal
rune – every use of healing skill 975 dmg and healing , and 975 25% chance every 25 sec
shadow refuge combo – also steal life 325*5 = 1.6k healing and dmg

so triple is now with 3 allies and assuming 3 sec duration – 2400*3+2100*3+11550 =25k dmg

and this is without consider your and your allies direct dmg

also you poison will do weakness
when enemy reach 50% hp also immobilize
dodging can cause cripple
AA cause bleeding – also its not your main source of dmg you will do 3-5 stacks around 500 dps
confusion dmg – 5 stacks , 2k dmg over 5 sec, with skill use 800-900

weakness:
low armor
no stunbreak
need good team and practice
no Shadow step to disengage (can replace it with SR)

ATM d/f ele and engi can do much higher condi dmg with burning 5-8k dps but i guess it will be tuned down soon

this build concept hasnt change but the fact poison no can stack in intensity and you can run 6,6,6 so you dont giveup in trickery trait line

hope you enjoy it

p/s
it wont become meta but give it a try even if d/p atm is freaking

guys what cant you understans

when mtd was 1 stack no one use it
then it became 2 stacks and few used it while ppl saying condi cant be in the current meta. so anet let it be
and now they saw more mesmer using this in 10 hours so they got panic (strike) and nerfed it on the basis of golem testing) which they failed to do so far (basically no difference before and after (maybe 3 stacks)

now they cant post it was a mistake (ego) so we gonna have to deal with it for 2 years

try this with your group
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VhR3V;1VwFc0Y5R-Fd0;9;4IKM;0247258048;4a-17U;1fgm9fgm92x

more appropriate way for anet to do some balance is like they introduce us the new specializations

they should do poi after week or two how they gonna change all the professions and skill trait etc so the community can react and comment

but by 10 hours nerfing and nerfing without explain (even if its obvious for some)

why condi ele / engi guard dont get nerfed with burning yet – 15-20 stacks of burning 5-7k dps its ok after 48 hours?!
why thieves dmg is overlook so far? or any other class…

because 30% playes ele, warrior, engi, guard
mesmer is 8%, thief 2 % – so lets nerf mesmer because the qq on their forum will be the shortest to handle

the problem is anet decision is by the below average community lvl. which affects all aspect of the game

example:
good thief in pvp versus good mesmer probably will be 50% for each even before the nerf as thief got power buff while mesmer also and with with condi mtd you could do some pressure to prevent the thief from spamming you to death.

while below average mesmer will hit f1-f4 to do massive stacks of torment while burning all his utilities for just one enemy thief kill while being killed by other enemy 1 sec later. so seeing 24 torment stacks is spooky but hardly the case in team fight (in average). thus both will qq mtd op and forget about the poor result in the pvp arena

now aftr the nerf good player must spam f1-f3 to do some 12 stacks to pressure the thief while the thief has more time to kill us as the condi pressure is low and the nerf afects the whole aspect of team fight which mean more mesmer moved to power build which will result (as we saw) in more power nerf