Guild Wars 2

i like condi as you need a different approach then power
power need you to look for the right moment to burst and is mainly 1v1
condi needs you to drain your enemy utilities, endurance and defenses so you can take him and can be used in 1vX

also i got board with power builds as they have the same combo over and over while
with mtd i can use all my F skills (and i must) and look for more combos abilities

with loackdown also fun build but more patient build and group oriented

after HOT comes out more builds versatile will be open as IP base
with chrono you can make some more clones and phantasms so maybe no need for DE
more condi dmg with bleed confusion and boost to torment
more slow ability and more control and dmg through interrupts

lockdown will be still less faster then power shatter but can yield probably same dmg over time
mtd will do better

so what we have to w8 and see is how other profession will handle us

will the be able to cleanse more often and the new resistance proc more often then mtd will be shutdown
will they have more blind and stunbreak ability or cc then lockdown will have some problem (revenant with stability spamming for example)

sure so far mesmer seems to be in great spot. i hope it will stay that way

I see it turning over mtd thread….

The thread is about a build which is effective or not and being bad player or not by using non meta 1 build

Power shatter is good build when needed but can be pressure easily to not effective at all but portal and moa use

Mtd as for now and in the near future is good in other situation where your group knows your role
I have no problem 1v1 versus warrior or ele meta builds . The problem is it’s taking too long to down them and meanwhile help comes to 1v2
Power shatter has the same problems versus the same meta build in 1v1

If you know how to play your build and know your team movement and role you even can play as pu (mmm …. maybe not ) it’s just very different role from power shatter

had this PS few times

the most thing i think what makes power shatter exel is good group composition and communication

i am playing with guildies now for weeks and open mind for testing builds

sure they want me as power shatter when we need 2 zerk 2 sustain and 1 holder or something like that and this build is doing fine. but when i see 2 thieves or 1 thief and 1 mesmer i know i will be targeted first which makes my job alot harder

so i ask them to change to condi shatter and to be far capper holder. we all was surprise . we took tanger LB instead to cover to zerk need instead of cap holder (like guard or ele) . i manage to handle 2 thieves long enough while holding point till help come from ranger 1500 range. i manage to down engi rilfe or turret.
sure the communication helped alot.
i didnt try to go zerg on mid and you state above beside pressure the ele or guard i cant down them fast enough. but the pressure did its job after i told my team the ele used all his utilities (need to learn the animation) so the yimmobilize him and took him down fast)

the other team wisper me for gg and ask for build

so yes i mostly play power shatter as portal and burst is needed. but in the right group comp and communication you can play lockdown and condi shatter (not pu too slow)

i see it more as support cc/ lockdown mesmer and not pure dmg dealer

Saiyan.1704:

AGGabriel.9230:

The thief was an example (i hope just an example)
But the current 2 professions i see over advantage on the DH, compare the new access of each profession how will it counter
Example of some chronomancer traits (i find my head tilted to one side and think,
How the hell will i cope with this ?)
-Flow of Time – Gain alacrity when you shatter. (1s) (That is 4/5 !!! and mesmers usually use them all)
-Illusionary Reversion – Gain a clone after you activate a shatter skill (so pop 3 clones shatter in you alacrity comes with it, pop 1 back as a back up and send it there and so on.. , soo.. run from them yea right with what ? stop them with what Puncture Shot? that will cripple (2s) if there are more but not slow them towards you)
-Lost Time – Every 3rd critical hit will slow your target. (2s of Slow) (soo… perma slow on me already having a godly slow cooldown on the guardian skills)
Should i continue about the reaper ?

It would make for an interesting discussion
Added spoilers for ease of read.

Mesmer vs DH

hide spoiler

Mesmers
Mesmer’s applying Slow, is going to have no better performance than the current Condi Mesmers. It’s only strong if you don’t manage your cleanses correctly and I don’t see Guardian’s leaving Absolute Resolution anytime soon. Even then, we may dish out just enough damage and self cleanses with meditations to not need Virtue; but to be honest, I don’t see any meta build without these team-wanting Virtue utilities.

It could be a close matchup with just the DH bow but then again, the AA hits three. Clones could get two or three shotted all together, compared to Scepter that never really performed all that well against Mesmers anyways. Not to mention that Shattered Aegis alone will destroy mesmer clones, as well as F3’s 4k crit stomp ability. That makes for some quick decisions when the Mesmer is obviously sending clones your way.

Shelter early to prevent the burst or save for the Mesmer’s Shield #5 and wait for another burst? Either ways, Mesmers are going to need all the Alacrity they can get their hands on.

TL;DR
We’ll still be able to dodge/blind/block Mesmer shatter bursts so things really wont change a whole lot regarding Guard vs Mesmer matchups. Mesmers will still be running away for when we switch to GS’s 2k auto crits and 6k crit WW/Hammer. Mesmers will still be wanting to kite us the best that they can but DH’s Cripple isn’t going to let them do so, so easily. It’s going to be a heavy mind-game battle that could go either way.

Thieves vs DH

hide spoiler

Thieves
The Thief melted when he absorbed all the Guardian’s bursts… I’m not a bit convinced that that’ll be the typical matchup. In fact, i’m more worried about what Thieve’s are getting in their specialization that gave us a trap that could see stealthies to begin with. After all, Karl is the lead Guardian, Thief and Eles designer. So that begs the question, what the heck are thieves getting that just screamed, “give guardian some leeway here.”

Since Mesmers are deceptive, Thieves will likely take after them. They could gain Mantras, Manipulation or Glamour. Each being equally bad (deadly). That’s all we need.. a Thief with Distortion abilities =/. Just the thought of it makes me wish all traps could see stealthies.
TL;DR
Thieves are going to get something deadly that’s going to suck for us guards.

Condi vs Mesmers/Thieves
Because I need to mention something about condi guardians, all the time

Our 1300 damage ticks during weapon switch+judge’s intervention will be nerfed to 1k damage ticks. Edited: Excuse me, 900’ish damage. Poison’s dmg is nerfed too.

The good: our F1 burns will no longer stack in duration, so Mesmers and Thieves can immediately feel every single burn proc burst.

The bad: Instead of applying 7s worth of 800 burn ticks right before they stealth, we’ll likely only deal 500 burns at any one time…What made hybrid guardians so great was the fact that we didn’t need to glue ourselves to any one target because mobility sucked. Now we NEED to glue ourselves to a target to stack shorter F1 procs. This is both rewarding and dangerously risky for a multitude of reasons.

true true

but i dont think we need to glue to proc burning as we got so many ways to proc it.
scepter and LB range
block with aegis, shelter, focus also proc nice 3-6 stacks . so you can get nice heavy burst on you and back fire it to them with 4-5k dps for 2 sec till the cleanse which means 10k dmg

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMBXALsBrQ~

maybe this build with s/p+gs

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

does the mesmer is the only one how can proc slow consistently ?
wih the gm trait which proc every 3rd crit 2 sec slow it can be perma slow
isnt it?
if so isnt it too op?

Maybe if you’re in a super glassy build that’s doing nothing but spam GS auto and your opponent has zero condition removal and decides to let you spam GS auto.

If that’s the case, they deserve to be permanently slowed.

maybe for lockdown mesmer with fury and interrupt even if they cleanse the slow will come back at them in no time

doesnt it has a icd?

consider 50% chance crit with 0.5 sec AA activation so an average of 1 hit sec you can put 2 sec slow which means perma slow

does the mesmer is the only one how can proc slow consistently ?
wih the gm trait which proc every 3rd crit 2 sec slow it can be perma slow
isnt it?
if so isnt it too op?

for the momenton paper guard are fine (even without DH) and nothing much has changed

sure other got nice buff but will have to invest points on it where today you can spread all over the trait tree

the point on burning guard is now you have to make some good fast combo which stack burning fast to do nice 5k dps with 8 burning stacks where as today its more easy to cleanse even with passive trait (the ele passive trait is on 10 sec cd so burst after it proc)

SlayerSixx.5763:

How on earth do you lose to mesmers, rangers, and thieves? Also, hammer guards give you trouble? Their slow, extremely telegraphed attacks give you problems? What on earth are you running with?

on my hybrid guard a thief has hard job to taking me but eventualy he can after some time becuase i burn all my utilities and block skills . on average i have high win rate

gs medi gaurd are hard to handle as they got good cleanse rotations
mesmer if they smart will play from range which is the guardian problem (maybe LB will fix it)
ranger power one are easy sometimes depends on thier build and cleanse ability

SlayerSixx.5763:

A condi user generally sets themselves up to simply sustain through their utilities while their conditions deal the damage for them. I can guarantee you that if anet removed condition damage from the cele amulet, the cele meta would die then and there. You’re probably going to ask if the same applies to power, but it just doesn’t. Why it doesn’t is apparent in the vast difference in the amount of things that can counter direct damage bursts vs condition damage bursts.

its hard for me to agree with that.
i agree that everything you wrote on how to direct dmg fails also applies to condi dmg but also against condi dmg you got cleanse utilities and skills.
if your assumption is correct why you dont see ppl running with rabid, carrion amulet which give full condi, toughness or vitality and power. you just dont (maybe condi necro) so ppl dont need the condi as thye used zerker instead thus they look for power and not condi. thus cele meta isnt there for the condi rather for power and sustain ability

what i hope fore is when the new patch will be out with more direct dmg abilities and conditions dmg abilities ppl will have to try them out versus the current meta and if an overall win for the condi or power or hybrid will win then we will see shift from the current meta.

also in pvp dont forget if you 1v1 with condi dmg the enemy team has easier chance to make it 1v2 as your condi take times to kill enable the enemy to help when needed.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Why should they make condition damage on par with direct? This is the reason why PvP is where its at right now. If conditions were purely for supportive purposes (immob, vuln, poison’s healing reduction, etc) I guarantee you the celestial meta would’ve never left the launch pad. Personally, I think you guys should just stop trying to play passively and, instead, try to get the condi nerfs to come around. Condi isn’t unbeatable, but its hella annoying and it practically ruins fights when you have to time attacks and position yourself and the condi based user just auto attacks, with the occasional dodge/stealth/sustain skill while you’re whittled away.

condition dmg has much more counter and cleanse versus direct dmg . thus to be able to play in versityle builds and not just 1-2 meta build you have to make more possibilities

the cele meta gained its power not from condi rather from being able to sustain longer while doing direct dmg which also got nice condi tuoch.
the new patch will give great boost to direct dmg thus the cele meta will continue to shine wether you par the condi dmg or not.
i think if you boost the condi dmg then more hybrid builds will be avialable with carrion and other amulets beside cele.

my hybrid guard with carrion amulet with 1500 condi dmg and 2000 power and 100% burning duration (20% sigil +30% rune +30% trait line and 20% trait torch)
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgIBvAK0A7g~

the stacking burning never has been funnier along side good direct dmg

(pssss… this is the new meta)

Saiyan.1704:

In other words, 5k burns and 2k bleeds may not mean anything in 3v3+ Skirmish scenarios.

in other words condi class still wont be any good in a big group fight because ppl got cleanses abilities… which tend to be used. but is small ones like 5v5 the cleanse abilities may be on cd unless you fight shout warrior , dd ele , bunker guard all together then you had to change class or build.

its all depends on the group comp and you ability to react to that. or choose you fight correctly like look for the mesmer, thief, ranger and not the warrior with the dd ele … etc

Ragnarox.9601:

Arnath.2319:

Ragnarox.9601:

They could give guardians new condi for us only….spirit fire. So they can nerf plain fire and buff spirit fire as is, because eles will be too OP with burning stacks. (cele’s are OP as hell now )

I would love to see this, one of the big problems with condi guards is our lack of conditions. Even in HoT with the burning changes and bleeds on traps condi guards are unlikely to be viable. We need a consistent condi that can be applied on multi targets consistently that isn’t tied to unreliable traps.

Maybe the first minor trait in DragonHunter that gives us the new Virtues can also give us a mechanic that applies “Spirit Fire” on weapon auto attack critical strikes or something like that.

We already have bluish fire when we activate our virtue. Btw eles getting trait “dodge to remove fire condition” so we are more kittened vs ele as now (even now we cant win vs ele)

if i give you the opportunity to proc 1k dps with 1 condition and be able to proc it with several skills and abilities what would you say?
what would you say if it will be 2k dps with only 1 conditions?

the main reason other class got more conditions is the fact that they cant stack all of them constantly beside bleed (which is the weakest condition dmg)

yes ele is gonna be hard counter but even with the new trait which remove burning and chill its on 10 sec icd thus you have interval to stack more dmg. also ele by now is hard counter to any condi build. but again in hybrid where you got direct dmg also you put 2 ways of pressure

as for now the burning of the guardian may seem to be better then ever with 5k dps with probably 3k dps in average for short time along side 1k-2k direct dmg may be the best dps ever and maybe new hybrid era for guards and other class too.

also side note with swap sigils you can proc poison and 3 bleeding for 10 sec so…

Relentliss.2170:

Saiyan.1704:

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Traps?!?! Really how lame. They didn’t seem to work for Rangers why would they work for guardian? Not that I could use them anyways as I have to use my main skills for things like gap closers and healing, because I am slow as a turtle and have the health of a mosquito. So basically I got a bunch of new skills I will not be able to use because of the ingrained class faults.

As to the class itself. TBH bows would not be my first choice but I am fine with the decision. I just do not see anything exciting in the tree they have made for DH or much cross over to the other playstyles. Once you have gone DH you seem to have kitten whatever your other weapon is or your tankiness.

Your 5k burn ticks will last a month then be nerfed down to 500. Seriously, if a dot is taking 1/3+ of a person’s health how long do you think that will stay in a game? And if I am burning someone for 5k I can bet Eles and Engi’s will be burning for 25k. Everytime I find something Guardian does that is kinda cool it gets given to another class and they can do it much better. Burning is currently the most powerful damage, it does not need a pvp buff.

i agree with you that anet will see the difulcty on conditions with no cap. but if they will nerf it they will have to nerf also the direct dmg to par it with conditions.
also we got new boon resistance which is new way to handle conditions and few for trait/skills to cleanse conditions
also dont forget that till now hybrid guard wasnt consider in the pvp arena. maybe now it will be and players will must to pay attention to the burning stacks or they will lost 5k tick like when condi necro manage to put full signet and fear on you

also regarding traps they will work on guard who’s job is to protect the point or support the point with traps all over the area … will it be meta ? no . will it be playable . yes

Saiyan.1704:

messiah.1908:

Saiyan.1704:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Actually, I don’t think the numbers will change much at all. That 5k burns and 2k bleeds were done out of condition stacking; condition applications. Exaust the Guardian’s virtues and skill utilities via cleanses and we’ll be done for.

the numbers are gonna change as no 25 stacks limits so ppl can stacks above that

consider 2 LB rangers which can do 30-40 vulnerability while their thief finished the target
consider condi necro and sb ranger doing nice bleeding stacks poison and burning
consider 2 mtd mesmer stacking above 25 torment and confusion …
conditions are gonna be much worse now if apply by smart players
also power builds get buffed too with dmg modifier and trait ability combined
thus its hard for me to see how we can manage now to protect from being burst is 1 sec or getting 20 burning stacks , or 25 torment, or 30 bleeding

I share your concerns regarding condi damage spike potential for sure. But Condi teams still require a whole lot more coordination and focus targeting abilities than self-sustain, low maintanence builds.
Cleanses completely kill condition builds while Celestials hybrids; if their conditions don’t put out, can rely on raw damage.

To be honest, three celestial classes poses more if a thread than 2 condi torment Mesmers or poison stacking Rangers.

I’m curious if a Condi could actually replace a Zerker dps class; or even a cele, given condi having great node-assaulting/node-defending roles. Current hybrid Guardians are great at these roles but not so much everywhere else. I fear the meta wont need a condi class at all.

i dont know if its gonna be problem as we yet to know how each profession can counter condi builds with cleanse.
as for now i dont see many new cleanse skills and i see more ways to put conditions
necro can now stack chill – the best cc condi out there against melee classes.
mesmer does 50% more torment dmg and got now 4 clonses with 1 shatter (ip) so 8 stacks of torment and 4-8 confusion
guardian can stacks nice burning to a 5k dps (short one) (as for my testing my hybrid guard can down golem on the mist as fast as zerk med guard – so what now will be?…)
thief with traps – more poison, immobilize and bleeding

so every class got more abilities to proc conditions but we hardly got more abilities to cleanse them (maybe 1 more)

will it shift the meta to more condi oriented? i dont think so as power build got more dmg modifier as thief with 20%+10% dmg in the same trait line , guardian 40%, mesmer 40% etc… so they will do much more dmg

so anet buff condi and power all together and power was on the upper hand and probably will be
but may so that team coordinated with 1 condi class or even 2 can do new things on the pvp arena. like guard with traps on points along side cele build like dd or engi or even thief traps

remember ppl how we used to farm with group of traps ranger on gw1
consider ranger , thief, guardian with all the traps on points – could be death sentence for whom stepping on it (immobilize, burning, bleeding , poison, cripple , vulnerability)

Saiyan.1704:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Actually, I don’t think the numbers will change much at all. That 5k burns and 2k bleeds were done out of condition stacking; condition applications. Exaust the Guardian’s virtues and skill utilities via cleanses and we’ll be done for.

the numbers are gonna change as no 25 stacks limits so ppl can stacks above that

consider 2 LB rangers which can do 30-40 vulnerability while their thief finished the target
consider condi necro and sb ranger doing nice bleeding stacks poison and burning
consider 2 mtd mesmer stacking above 25 torment and confusion …
conditions are gonna be much worse now if apply by smart players
also power builds get buffed too with dmg modifier and trait ability combined
thus its hard for me to see how we can manage now to protect from being burst is 1 sec or getting 20 burning stacks , or 25 torment, or 30 bleeding

Vizardlorde.8243:

Saiyan.1704:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol even worse than I expected. Gj Anet. Not sure you could have designed a more lame class if you tried.

Relentliss.2170:

No it is problem compounded. The game has been very stale and Guardian the stalest and needs a boost. Anets solution – introduce an ineffective elite class that you can’t even play cause its so ineffective.

You’re going to find a lot of people who didagree. I was sold by the change in virtues alone. I’m skeptical of a couple of mechanics like F3 shield destroying projectiles instead of blocking them and whether or not DM will be effective at all. But overall, I liked what I saw. As did others.

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

the burning scale with intensity so if you manage to put 7-8 stacks of burning (as guardian with blocks and skills its easy) you can have 4-5k dps for short time and an average of 2-3k dps unless you enemy dont have any cleanse left then you can go even higher

regarding bleeding . now with geomancy sigil i can get 6 stacks so with 1 traps if i manage to immobilize my target on the trap it can be 16 stacks but if he dodges it 0 stacks . dont see the point on the condi guard
if anet wants to see more hybrid or condi guard they needs more condi abilities with chill, cripple, and torment to cover our burning
else it will be the same as of today small niche (very small)

only saw the fights versus the warrior – didnt see much new here. basic medbuild with hammer. the LB could changed to scepter/focus which perform better compare to what i saw.

so meta still be the meta….:(

i tough we could see some carrion build activities

i dont have any stealth issue i want to fix but reading for the past year ppl qq i came up with this idea

first i think stealth should be used for attack or disengage. it shouldn’t be used for stacking if you dont wont to disengage.

i suggest the follow

you can stealth up to 3 (4) sec as now but you must attack or get revealed (like the “bug” )
if you dont want to get revealed you must stand 240/360 ft from your enemies

this way if you wanna disengage you can as you will try to be afar from your enemies
if you want to attack you got 3-4 sec to do so
so just stacking for the stack of it …no

also if your enemy used shadow refuge he has 4 sec before the icon disapear but if you manage to stand near him he will get revealed so he will must back off as i think it should be to regain hp ,ini etc and not just to have 15 sec of stealth while hovering around you

from what i see the GS use more as utility to control alongside with chill on AA .
chill in melee is a huge advantage yo must consider when you fight with a group who can burst with you when needed

maybe 1v1 GS is slow and dagger would be better choice

also DS new skills are amazing (maybe nerf in the future)

and the ability to gain fast life force then before make the necro more dangerous

thanks

wierd then if only 2 class will get it
i saw revenant also got it

so what’s the point?

which class get this ability?
so far havent seen it beside the revenant 1-2 skills
so will it be unused?

if its rifle than long range so probably survivel from ranger or engi exilir

hi
dont know if it was posted before but here is my early version of the condi thief after the new patch so far

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcB6AVcA9g~

i would try it in pvp arena

so far i am trying 6,0,2,6 build with carrion p/d+sb and its nice versus several classes
sure ele are hard to hit

needle trap – gain from utility and from heal skill basically can control the area around you

panic strike – more immobilize

caltrops – use them when ppl immobilize on the point

dodge for more bleeding and cripple

steal – to recharge one of your utilities 80% chance as i take trap, trick, venom and deception so you heal skill which is trick also can be recharged

rune – what ever you want . i take Balthazar for burning for 4 sec, you can take grenth for chill

sigils = chill and bleed on swap

have fun

Daniel Handler.4816:

I will be doing Dueling, inspiration, Illusions

Desperate decoy, blinding dissipation, deceptive evasion
(shatters can crit and I’ll be applying one stack of confusion per crit)

Menders purity, restorative Illusions, shattered conditions
(I sustain through shattering, this is versus PU where you stop using damaging shatters while in stealth as they reveal you. The longer I’m not in stealth the more I can contest a point.)

The pledge, malicious sorcery, maim the disillusioned
(this brings condi removal to an ungodly level even disregarding possible utility skills. The possibility to remove at least six conditions every ten seconds is quite cool. The amount of torment and confusion we will apply is insane.)

cool idea but i think atm maybe its too much condi cleanse but we have to w8 to see how the meta will change in pvp

so far atm i run with no condi cleanse and doing fine

just look at the reaper and omg

spite, death magic and reaper – you can bunker with -10% dmg if foe is poison and -10% if chill, along side weakness and some protection and you are hard to kill

spite, soul reaping and reaper – great killing machine with great dmg modifiers , protection and migh gaining (which heals you bit)

spite, blood, reaper – again good dmg and siphon abilities

zapv.8051:

messiah.1908:

i am bit afraid of the chill abilities necro got
i was experiment with perma chill build and melee classes really hate it
now give the necro GS and chill even when with fear which is great combination as they cant run away from you while you burst them

i think its too much chill abilities which can become perma chill even with no condi duration trait or buff. and even when it cleanse it will come back into you no time

now power necro can hold on point and do some great dmg as the meta in pvp in around zerk class. does it means we can see some changes around the meta for more sustain and bunkering ?

also vulnerability with 2 skills you can do 17 stacks which is huge for burst and with no condi cap along side shatter mesmer or ranger they can both reach 40 stacks which is 40% more dmg = instant death

i really like the reaper concept but it need to be tuned down a bit regarding pvp. in wvw it may works greatly for necro and also pve

And then you press one or two buttons on your bar and all that vuln and chill are gone. Even better, dodge the big slow skills and you won’t “suffer” at all.

and then it comes back to you 1 sec later leaving you with no cleanse. while necro stand on point and you cant

i am bit afraid of the chill abilities necro got
i was experiment with perma chill build and melee classes really hate it
now give the necro GS and chill even when with fear which is great combination as they cant run away from you while you burst them

i think its too much chill abilities which can become perma chill even with no condi duration trait or buff. and even when it cleanse it will come back into you no time

now power necro can hold on point and do some great dmg as the meta in pvp in around zerk class. does it means we can see some changes around the meta for more sustain and bunkering ?

also vulnerability with 2 skills you can do 17 stacks which is huge for burst and with no condi cap along side shatter mesmer or ranger they can both reach 40 stacks which is 40% more dmg = instant death

i really like the reaper concept but it need to be tuned down a bit regarding pvp. in wvw it may works greatly for necro and also pve

wow so many chill ability – perma chill
and the vulnerability stakcs
common this necro is a huge lich form with no 3 min cooldown

i think they should tune a bit the chill and vulnerability consider also there is no 25 stacks cap

i think the slow gs will be using for pulling and aoe and go in to DS ability for faster burst and stability

and with trooper rune which will cleanse 3 conditions common and immune to conditions from elite this necro is so powerfull

maybe lockdown mesmer will be his weakness

Yoseue.4251:

messiah.1908:

also if i press F5 and get conditions on me and i press F5 again does it cleanse them or i just get back to my previous hp pool ?

I think it was stated that f5 does not clean conditions.

if i get direct dmg which lower my hp and press F5 i will get back to my previous HP and my enemy will need to hit me again
so why if i get conditions which lower my hp and press F5 shouldnt do the same

1 sec of stealth while in pvp and being need to contest points is not so good but stability versus warrior, thief, ele, engi can be good though as its got no internal cd
for wvw sure pu ftw.

so no shield which can block twice and stun and give you chaos armor with staff PhaseR

also does the lost of DD trait which proc conditions when clones dies can be compensate by wanting your illusion to stay alive longer to proc bleed and confusion with their attacks rather then shatter them ??

also if i press F5 and get conditions on me and i press F5 again does it cleanse them or i just get back to my previous hp pool ?

so what are you toughs regarding condi shatter in tpvp

illusion , dueling, chaos –
chaos – instead of pu i take BD for stability and CD for chaos armor protection and MM for manipulation.
dueling – DE, EM and DD . pistol dont know yet also dueling line hardly net a condition if i constant shatter so it push maybe more on not slow and not fast playstyle . but DE is a must

or maybe instead of chaos take the new chronomancer with the ability to create clone when i shatter and phantasm and then dueling line might work as more illusion will have the time to use thier skills to inflict confusion and bleeding
but loosing chaos line stability , protection while other class gaining more dmg modifier

weapons:
staff is still a must for aoe and good condi covers with AA
scepter the same.
torch will cleanse conditions to save some utility spot and aoe blind and burning and blast finisher
while shield bring some nice 2 block and stun and nice team buff

mmmm…. what you say guys

so if necro got shouts , mesmer wells, guardian traps

thief will get what?

i say with rifle and lack of imagination from anet (like guardian poor class) it will be turrets or gadgets

ranger?
with staff probably meditation as it suit clam and nature aspect

engi?
with hammer probably stance

ele?
with sword stances or spectral skills

warrior ?

reaslly dont know

cant wait…4 weeks

i really like the idea of chill wuth melee class and chill is so powerful
i play with it and it can be strong in the right hands and weapon.
consider chill and fear chain can broke down any ele, thief etc…

sure lockdown mesmer can control you more but we shall see as you can not be OP against evry build and class

also nice thing the lightclass can role with melee like the ele finaly

i think anet doing good job trying to find also group combintations which can work together like necro chill ele burn and aoe guard traps and mesmer alacrity etc…

i dont think stability may be the issue as you got DS hp pool and with GS which could probably refill it faster necro might handle without it

MSFone.3026:

Since feedback not about the numbers was asked for (which is dumb because how the numbers play out basically determine the quality of the trait line; the whole thing could be turned to garbage by mishandling the numbers):

I think all the traits, modulo the numbers, look great except the well one looks weak and Illusionary Reversion seems close to useless.

What is Illusionary Reversion supposed to do? What build(s) is it supposed to help? Everyone seems to think this is an alternative to DE, it is not, like at all, for a simple reason: Clone generation is only an issue for shatter builds (since clone death is gone) , and you need the clones before you shatter. The problem is that clones do not live long at all, and the primary issue mesmers feel without DE is that they can’t get enough clones out in enough time to get a meaningful multi-clone shatter before the clones start getting killed. IR does not alleviate this at all. Getting some small set up for the next shatter is not the issue, that doesn’t help really. It’s like IR is this trait that helps clone production for your second shatter. So what we need to blow F2 in order to get a good F1? That is kittened.

If someone wanted to give a meaningful alternative to DE, it has to increase on demand clone production, as in it has to give mesmers an ability to produce clones in quick succession before they shatter them. This is the core issue with power shatter, which is still going to be one of the if not the most played mesmer build.

The following would not be OP as an alternative to DE: weapon skills that produce a clone produce 2. There is only one of those on your bar, and each has a cd. You could put an icd on it if you wanted. This would actually be an alternative to DE, and would allow mesmers the on demand ability to get up front clone generation.

so TL;DR: Illusionary Reversion is not in any way an alternative to DE and does very little to help shatter builds.

remember

Illusionary Reversion – Gain a clone after you activate a shatter skill.
Chronophantasma – Your phantasms respawn the first time they are shattered.

DE give you clone when you dodge every 10 sec or 5 sec if you got vigor
so lets assume perma vigor so every 5 sec 1 clone from DE

now the new trait gives you clone for each shatter skills which if you handle it right can produce up to 5 clones (with ip) and then F1 again and you not bound to endurance at all.
also your phantasm will appear again after you shatter so again free clones to shatter

so i think it can replace DE but will need fine adjustment to play style and timing of your shatter as it can bring huge fast burst with f1 with 2 clones + phantasms + ip, f2 with 1 clone and 1-2 new phantasm + ip, f3 with new clone + ip so your rotation can be faster and deadlier as of today power shatter.
again assuming atm.

chornomancer trait line can now compete with DE as you gain new clone and new illusions when you shatter so you can shatter again quicly for huge burst

so both condi shatter and power shatter have alternative

well trait is too weak only 1 condi cleanse when in ends…. make it 2 with this long cd

25% speed buff on minor – as mention every wvw mesmer will grab it and some pvp aswel.

slow on interupt is very nice

i imagine you really wanted shatter to be more aggerssive as if you shatter you make more illusions rather then dodging …

i hope it wont get nerfed before we can actually test it long enough

witcher.3197:

messiah.1908:

Sagat.3285:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Sagat.3285:

I can see me just getting the elite specialization just for LB and Spear of Justice I won’t swap my meditations not worth it right now imo.

meditations are our sustain AH doesnt provide enough healing w/o being full support to be picked over Monks focus.

Yeah and that’s the sad part lol the bleed is limited to traps but meh it will still be better than current condi guard, I know it’s still in rework but I wouldn’t roam with those traps either even in WvW and Trapper Runes, symbol healing and other forms of sustain are meh.

in wvw i can see full trap build working with trapper runes and carrion/hybrid dmg

in pvp you wont see guardian being range weapon only with LB (you alreay got ranger for that) thus guardian need to take more sustain abilities with meditation and elite skill and shelter so maybe 1 trap (maybe)

but lets see what other specializations will come up next then we will know (necro with GS omg….)

You are a surprisingly reasonable person when it’s not about discussing condi mes xP

LOL
i play long time condi guard and tested it in tpvp. as for now its nice nich which can hold its on in some cases. with the new upcoming it can be better but every other class get more cleanse ability and more dmg output. thus again making condi guard at the same lvl. giving trap bleed stack for mainly 1 trap not making guardian a condi.
mesmer on the outherhand wow nice torment buff (50%) and confusion proc and IP ….

trap should be ground targeted (as it seems it isnt)
the cd is too long 45 sec… make it 30 sec

make 1 trap proc burning some way
make 1 trap clenase condition like healing trap
make 1 trap to be stunbreak
make 1 trap to proc some support boons like regen, vigor,protection

no taunt skill?

this way traps can be use in any build type. condi, zerk, hybrid, range or melee.
otherwise
in pvp you maybe see 1 trap in used and maybe the same in wvw
in pve you can see them as no support utility much needed.

GrandHaven.1052:

Your understanding is incorrect.

thieves now can trait with 20%10%10% basic panice strike
guardian meditation can go 60% with symbole dmg
mesmer can go 40% with power shatter and MW

Sagat.3285:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Sagat.3285:

I can see me just getting the elite specialization just for LB and Spear of Justice I won’t swap my meditations not worth it right now imo.

meditations are our sustain AH doesnt provide enough healing w/o being full support to be picked over Monks focus.

Yeah and that’s the sad part lol the bleed is limited to traps but meh it will still be better than current condi guard, I know it’s still in rework but I wouldn’t roam with those traps either even in WvW and Trapper Runes, symbol healing and other forms of sustain are meh.

in wvw i can see full trap build working with trapper runes and carrion/hybrid dmg

in pvp you wont see guardian being range weapon only with LB (you alreay got ranger for that) thus guardian need to take more sustain abilities with meditation and elite skill and shelter so maybe 1 trap (maybe)

but lets see what other specializations will come up next then we will know (necro with GS omg….)

thief will jsut Shadow step out of it or with sword #2 do the same
mesmer will blink away
the stealth is 1 sec pulse so unless you catch them without any breakstun the trap and the guardian skill will kill them same as today

as far as i understand almost every class get nice direct dmg buff between 30-60%

does it really needed as you can again thief 1 bs+hs or med guard combo in 2 sec down
etc…

or anet will nerf it after 2 months of ppl QQ

fadeaway.2807:

Can someone summarise the changes to burn for me please? Why can it tick for so much now?

burn no longer stack duration rather intensity

so 1 stack of burning does 400 dmg (i think) with carrion amulet which is 1407 condi dmg
he used 33% buff dmg to burning and maybe 13% more condi dmg scale from power

so with 8 stacks of burning 400*8*1.33= 4.3k dmg per seconds

indeed thus i think that if the bow wont get some condi effect as well then the condi guard wont even enter the pvp arenas above mid lvl

at the video demonstration the trap did 15 bleed stacks . so with long 45 sec cd and the ability to dodge away from it i guess 5 bleed stacks in average
the 25 vulnerability is nice group buff for a fast burst

traps in wvw can be great for roaming with traps rune and hybrid dmg

in group you wanna take power zerk and direct dmg abilities

in pvp with all the cc of the ele, engi, hammer warrior, dont know if it would shift to the guardian

but sure i can see now hammer/lb with vulnerability trap for insane cc lockdown for 12 sec with huge dmg. combine with meditation