(edited by messiah.1908)
shatter with condi is tricky so few tips to work them out even with torch or pistol
1. shatter before they are killed with f1 (lowest cd). and if your enemy will go for phantasm he wont focus the other 2
2. spread them out so they wont get cleaves or aoe
3. make your enemy to come to you and you position yourself near your clone so less travel time
4. count dodges of your enemy
5. shatter on res or stomp can be massive aoe dmg
i would use pistol but atm its bugged and torch although the lower dmg gives 2 cleanse and blind (i dont use much the stealth rather the blast)
when using time warp you will use phase retreat so you hove protection at least
also probably while attacking vigor, regen, swiftness, and +5 might stacks if you shatter and stability
so share share share
the main focus when you gonna share is not the kill rather the chance to share higher stacks of boons and might stacks with your allies
dd ele with 25 might stacks and and thief with 15 stacks are deadly assets to your team more than your dmg
i had pin down reflect and i just rack him with full combo shatter as he couldnt dodge them
also necro lich got 6k dmg and ranger with #2 skill
condi ranger bounce back the torch on him
so yes practice and learn which skill can be reflected and the effect
they just need to nerf the stacking of the skills from 3 to 1
that all
for pvp point holder – trap ranger than mesmer
for pvp support pressure – necro (cc, aoe, boon removal, condi trasfer) and engi (aoe heal, cc, block and aoe) and than mesmer (boon share , condi cleanse aoe, reflect aoe, aoe shatter and blind)
for zerg – mesmer as hois skills prevent movement or skills use
for off point – mesmer and engi
guard is one trick pony which easy cleansed
Good advices
Just some remarks:
Mirror with stow weapon ~ 1s of reflecting with 4s of CD (not 3s CD)
Signet of inspiration when used to share time warp quickness – is it worthy to share 1s quickness only?
Blind: suggest additional recourse for it – block/evade + Ineptitude
thanks i saw it after i upload the video i wrote 3 sec and not 4 . to be honnest i hardly use it unless its 1v1 at the beggining of the fight
quickness stacks in duration and boons duration is about 35% longer so +1 sec longer with other boons as well is welcome and nice . as i dont share only 1 boon (beside swiftnees)
i took it for granted that ppl see that ineptiture wokr with evade in 10sec icd – for each enemy
there are many reason why to shatter without clones
as said above you are consider a clone
1. blind – if you want to blind even without clone use F1 (10 sec cd) so you can negate the burst a bit. works on melee
2. lure the cleanse – with F1 with low cd. than you shatter with f2 and f3 for the heal
3. stack conditions – if i burst with full clones f2 than f3 with 1 clone or 2 i use f1 with no clonse just for the stacks
4. low hp – shatter with no clones and use skills like #3 scepter
5. proc boons – use f1-f3 for stability when needed or f1 for 3 might stacks or before you wanna share boons
6. mistakes
7. i am using carrion so f1 shatter with no clonse can do 1k direct dmg or above if it crits
8. f1+f2 with no clones will proc 3 confusion and 2 torment add confusion images #3 scepter and 6 confusion thus 9 confusion can do dmg . thus it really depends on your situation. enemy cleanse ability and the amount of pressure
9. f4 i save for escape or res and stomp (even if i got stability and blind against cleave dmg)
this fight (some bad move of me) we run 2 carrion mesmer so even with no clonse we can stack together nice confusion. also with trap ranger my condition cover his which helps with cleanse ability of the eles.
also dont foreget in tpvp your clonse can die fast against guard, ele, engi so each senario you have to adapt
also i like to shatter fast as posibble at the beggining to put some pressure and negate dmg with blind after my enemy get below 50% hp than i full burst with 3 clonse (1v1 mainly) with f1 +f2 which will be rdy
so here is my tips with condi shatter for new players
1 tpvp fight
we were 2 condi shatter mesmer with carrion amulet, 1 condi ranger trap
they were 3 eles 1 guard and 1 necro
you may say eles can cleanse and guard also
watch
i play condi shatter in tpvp (not hotjoin)
i play it without pu as i need to hold points
its good build but in much emphasis on your group composition. thus if your team lack dmg i switch to power mesmer.
pu is not good . although i play versus a condi shatter pu . he didnt manage to do much dmg to me as i know pu duration skills so i dodge , blind when needed but i couldnt kill him. he manage to kill me when it was 2v1 and he join to 3v1 .
but you wont see much of condi shatter (my team play with 2
which are 50% of the condi shatter players
)
you can contact me ingame
eu server pooff
us server mesilu sion
can give you some tips
again you not making any sense here. you say to escape you need to plan ahead
3v1 i had against very good engi he escape the moment he feel the pressure against mesmer thief and ele . so yes he plan ahead and survive with just shield block shoes and stealth and after 5 sec reengage on the point as i knew he would have return i won as he had no escape utilities up.
if you check what anet gave to whole classes you will see balance skills and utilities to survive longer while some have better burst over defense
you are just sayingfor example condi are op because the other player didnt take condi cleanse so lets nerf condi.
if memser take sword for #2 and blink and have f4 its like every other class defense utilities . so yes balance means to compare each class
cause statement like yours few classes got nerfed because anet failed to compare it to others (check condi mesmer with torment nerf while other can do 4k burning dmg and 15 poison and bleeding we can do 8 torment = very balance
i dont know why you using 6/6/6/6/6 build i use 0/0/0/0/0 and i rekt ppl all over with no weapons and only with heal skill as it reflect
Going to clear up a few thing because post like this are as bad as OP.
didnt get what you want to clear here
warrior – every meta build take berserker stance and rampage which is used in melee so if every thing else is correct what you want to clear up .oh it can be morph like every other class and build
i just mention warrior has good sustain while in melee. sometime better than mesmer cause of high armor and hp. thus warrior
necro – the rest is true so…. again what you wanna clear here?
guard – most take medi or bunker so again true hard to kill while can dish out huge dmg burst. guard can use focus block or aegis and attack
mesmer – again the problem is pu . yes its being used now in pvp but not for its full duration rather it aegis and other boons it gives .so even if anet nerf the duration (which imo needed) ppl will still use it
engi – yes he cant attack while using block or ex-s but he got stealth also, slik shoes ,kd ,cc etc. probably the best heal in the game while the ability to disengage and reengage at will with good amount of cc …
so all in all you agree. every class has its ability to survive better and do dmg probably while being contesting while mesmer (power) cant . and your only problem is pu duration and moa ….
for me your answer is as bad as any other qq here
here is the build i am using in this video
hi ppl
this is my first 30 min video (yeap long) with 7 tpvp fights (i think
) one after the another
i had 8 fights which we lost only 1 due to time (40 points behind)
my group like to test and explore new builds, compositions and rotations.
we went with 2 condi class at least (engi, ranger trap and me)
the idea was that those builds are very strong in 1v1 and conditions cant be cleansed so fast with all of us . also it enable us to split more and me mainly push far or close even to do some 1v2 to give my team the advantage
sometimes i wish i took portal.
1v1 on far almost against any class is doable while you can contest the point if needed
dd ele/ staff ele/ engi/ ranger/ necro /guard/ warrior some hard and some easy
you may see me push far in 1v3 to give some time for as 4v2 on mid etc…
res and stomp are easy with blind and stability
might stacks can be above 10 which give 2.3k power and 1.6k condi dmg and fury i got 30% crit chance which is nice add to crit dmg 150%
so over all the dmg is good sometimes even surprising for condi build
if you are the only mesmer most chances you will be targeted so your team still can do good dmg (not like zerker mesmer who get pressured)
i like this build very much with carrion amulet even though my armor is 1.9k but i got 25k hp so not so easy to burst down 100-0.
also the power version with staff and s/s is nice too but i feel in any group composition one player should go condi for the sustain pressure and the utility /cleanse luring and mesmer with all the support utilities can take condition build over other classes
i am not saying it’s op build and it wont work in wvw with 1.9 armor and condi (maybe 1v1) and its needs good communication so in hotjoin also it will be hard
this build hardly works on staff bunker ele and sometime on bunker guard (if they know the cleanse rotations) – so dont look to fight them unless you want to lure 1v2 fights to you
i will try to make tutorial on this build and rotation (some of the veteran mesmer probably know) as i have been asked
hope you enjoy it
p/s
dont tell me to run power build as i get so many wisper already.
power is great atm i just tryo to do the same with conditions
sry guys tested it 10 times
if my AA hits or i do any direct dmg (like chaos storm) my steath breaks away
sometime i think it is the otherway my AA is so slow that untill it hit and i go stealth i get revealed
lets talk about warrior – 10 sec immune to dmg or condition, stability, block, huge dmg burst, cc at will , rampager…., hight hp and armor
lets talk about necro – 2 hp bar, op dmg in lich or ds, op aoe dmg on point, good condi cleanse and transfer, good cc with fear chain,
lets talk about guard – block, block, block, aegis, aegis, cleanse condition, invulnerable good armor
lets talk about mesmer – 1 blink – guard can catch you or thief, stealth like thief, portal op here, good conditions cleanse over dmg with 4 shatter you wont do much dmg. 1 block with scpeter (or oh sword) evade only projectile with dodge for 1.5 sec, distortion for emergency like shield of engi, block or guard etc..
the only op for mesmer are the clones if you dont know to target the real ones and some pu build but hardly in tpvp
nice gg
but why the hell were you running through fire fields – i was watching and say dont stomp it and boom 3 stacks of burning .
also treb or incoming dodge or share stability
if i am on pls pm (mesilu sion na acoount and pooff eu account) i will join with condi boon share . i think you need it to pressure the necro,ele,thief. 2v2 they won from what i saw
will have to see how much alacrity and slow can be proc with this trait line as it can be game changer if used right
also the ability to go back in time its new feature which is very interesting
and the ability to proc clone on shatter and phantasms might be another way without DE
imo
it really depands on your play style and role
in pvp if you like to play on the point shattering all over than ineptitude is much better with blind and confusion stacking
if you like to come from the side and burst ppl than speed attack is more useful as with #3 scepter every 9 sec is better than 12 sec and block every 6 sec
regarding stomp speed – 15% still not much significant as with stability and blind its pretty much safe stomp. unless there is a bunker guard who will ress regardless
What this pic shows us is the blue team manage to kill yours more while your team was able to hold point better
Other than tjat you can’t assume nothing about mesmers
in 1v1 its better if you know how to use #3 scepter as its on 9 sec cd instead of 12 so more confusion uptime
the AA is nice but versus good player he can still dodge you #3 and the AA clone rate is the same (i felt it was bit faster 0.5-1 sec faster – need to check it)
but still i think the blind is way better overall as it gives you a good opening with dodge/evade so your target will miss and better doable confusion stacking with shattering
@Windwalker
Would you now recommend malicious over Ineptitude for PvP condi build?
me no. the blind and confusion combination is just so needed in pvp for 20% scepter cd and 15% speed attack (the AA doest changed the clone rate)
i notice it yesterday and kept my mouth shut
why Pyro why…..
i wanted to have fun with it for few moments
and i dont think anet meant it to work like that for our whole attackes ability to get 15% increase . only the scepter as it illusion (condi) line mainly
it works as intended
if you use scepter and its projectile didnt reach its target while you use torch stealth you get revealed
b4 use the torch stealth stop attacking
inspiration line is much better than illusion after the patch
was very nice to fought with you
how did it go with two of use bunkering mesmer?
our group lack the dmg burst
it was hard for me to be on the point with 2 guards on me
while with soldier my chances went higher even in 1v3 till helps comes (but shouldnt it came i would have been dead)
tempest for sure
dragon hunter cant do anything against zerg
reaper too squishy as well
tempest has it all -good sustain as ele, good boon share, auras, stunbreak aoe
but with chrono i will port to other locatio behind them after i lure them to me or just MI for 10 sec away
almost what i use when i feel like bunkering mid
i dont use mantras (i dont know why) and i use miror i love the reflect on engi/necro/ranger
i take medic feedback as it gives another field and help with the res if you take the right runes. also lots of chaos armor abilities as i use also null field or feedback (depend on the enemy comp)
i also like the offhand sword as for another block and low ucd on phantasm (so more chance to share boons)
1v2 is easy -medium depends on the enemy burst.
1v3 is doable for short time till help comes but most likely it will be hard to control the point if there are lots of conditions
the main problem guardian does it better so why not to take it
this why i testing the soldier amulet with 25k hp even conditions cant hurst me much and my dmg is ok with 2.2 base and 2.4k with might stacks
focus is also nice
bad player for me is not when i kill him rather which rotation he used and did he manage to anticipate my move or stop attacking
the problem with 1v2 or 1v3 that they are think they can take you faster if they just burst but 1 block 3 shatter will take any thief in 2 sec and mirror on ranger too
also i dont know why ppl look for 1v more than 3 if you manage to down them all they are too bad as they can res each other fast even with not doing anything
pu isn’t needed, its just a crutch for bad players to lean on. between blocks, blinks, utilities blinds on shatter, position awareness… you shouldnt need added stealth..
you might as well just be a p/d teef
You obviously didn’t read a single thing past the 2 letters ‘P’ and ‘U’.
PU is necessary to properly maintain 1vx where x>3. It’s not necessary for smaller fights, but since 1v3+ happen very often in WvW, PU is necessary to ensure that you can engage into any situation.
To be honest, the simple idea that any profession expect to 1 v X makes me feel uneasy and tend to signal something is not right. At least to me.
All things being equal, you should have your hands full with 1 opponent of your caliber. Winning 1 v 2 very occasionally if your opponents made mistakes and you didn’t.
When I see 1 vs 5- 10 with a lone mesmer still managing to win a war of attrition I can’t help but see it as something being very wrong even if the opponents are all bad (I’ve seen too many instances where this was simply not the case). There are limits to always equate all to others being bad.
tl;dr: Expecting your profession to provide possibility to win 1 v X is bad to me.
let him try to win 1v3 in tpvp full team (not hotjoin)
in wvw i see many players just standing clicking which are easy to kill and i find some 1v1 which are hard to win ,
wvw is not the ground to judge a buildI partially agree. I know all balance are to be judge on the ground of pvp but no matter how much you want it to work it just can’t in the end.
As a wvw player first I have quite a high tolerance, I think, to unbalance. However, when an known issue exist in one game mode ignoring that issue when you make changes is just unforgivable. Stealth in WvW was such an issue. Making it more available and for longer periods was an absurd decision to begin with no matter if it’s ok in pvp or not. They could, read should, have use other options that were at least not known to be problematic in your other game mode to begin with.
tl;dr: You can’t constantly ignore the rest of your game because you only maintain balance relative to one mode.
i really dont know why they buff pu 100% . at pvp stealth is not relevant so only for wvw and pve
pu isn’t needed, its just a crutch for bad players to lean on. between blocks, blinks, utilities blinds on shatter, position awareness… you shouldnt need added stealth..
you might as well just be a p/d teef
You obviously didn’t read a single thing past the 2 letters ‘P’ and ‘U’.
PU is necessary to properly maintain 1vx where x>3. It’s not necessary for smaller fights, but since 1v3+ happen very often in WvW, PU is necessary to ensure that you can engage into any situation.
To be honest, the simple idea that any profession expect to 1 v X makes me feel uneasy and tend to signal something is not right. At least to me.
All things being equal, you should have your hands full with 1 opponent of your caliber. Winning 1 v 2 very occasionally if your opponents made mistakes and you didn’t.
When I see 1 vs 5- 10 with a lone mesmer still managing to win a war of attrition I can’t help but see it as something being very wrong even if the opponents are all bad (I’ve seen too many instances where this was simply not the case). There are limits to always equate all to others being bad.
tl;dr: Expecting your profession to provide possibility to win 1 v X is bad to me.
let him try to win 1v3 in tpvp full team (not hotjoin)
in wvw i see many players just standing clicking which are easy to kill and i find some 1v1 which are hard to win ,
wvw is not the ground to judge a build
i can win most 1v2 without pu. the problem in 1v3 and above is not the lack of pu rather the lack or ability to stomp fast before the res thus the fight can just go on till i get board
also if there are 2 thieves pu wont save me much if i decide to stick around as they go SR and rotate it thue my clones cant do good pressure
I just hate pu and I rarely use more than 3 sec stealth unless I disengage
And 1vx more than 3 is hard even with pu unless you just troll and not go for the kill or you face bad players
you dont need pu
you have 4 reflect skills so ranger/necro etc cant hurst you much
you got stability on demand so no warrior or thieves can stun you
in wvw roaming you are god (not versus guard though)
he probably used also mirror when you rapid fire which can take 50% hp of you
It might do some damage, but it won’t do all that much when the mes is running condie gear.
Just because reflect crit chance is based off the your precision doesn’t mean reflects are weak. A zerk Ranger is running a lot of power, even low-crit reflects are gonna hurt like a mother. And a zephyred rapid fire goes off fast enough that one dodge-reflect could probably get the whole thing.
check the dmg log – i usually do around 8k dmg with mirror reflect (about 1.5k per hit)
8 confusion per skill usrd is another 1.5k dmg
torment without moving is about 1k dps
your hp is about 16k so reflect is a must as 8k+2.5k*3 sec as you probably spam 3 skills
to take you down in about 3 sec will need you to spam skills like crazy (usually happend with noob HS thieves)
when i see ranger in pvp coming i use my heal even if i have full hp (low cd) if he spam he get dmg of he dont i use confusion skills and shatter so he will be 50% hp
then he comes melee with GS to stand on points and i block and dodge and shatter
if he wont cleanse he is dead
his best shoot is to be range and not contesting the point
8 confusion wont kill you that fast unless you spamming skills like crazy
he probably used also mirror when you rapid fire which can take 50% hp of you
compare cd on dagger to warhorn . fire aoe is on 40 cd versus 15 sec on dagger.
no condi cleanse on water
no blast finisher on earth so less might stacks combos
i guess ppl will take/try the trait line but offhand dagger with it
yes ele can now share boons
yes ele have better access to aura now with trait and shouts
but i think the main difference is that ele now have less defense and aoe with no offhand dagger or focus thus they may play a defense role or bunker role which than become like a bunker guardian
mesmer can have both boonshare and dmg dealers
regarding boons duration
i guess ele can have better might stacking but protection is rather short duration which will make the ele blow his utilities and skills to gain more
ele need to use his 1 shout and 1 skill to get 6 sec protection and overload to get anther 3 sec . while mesmer just put chaos armor and with signet have perma protection
i usually run with perma protection , fury, vigor and 5 stacks of might
before sharing i use MW to gain 3 more might and stability and swap weapon to get 2 more with sigil so 10 might stacks
also in time warp i can share more important boon
so i dont think ele will become the boonsharing class rather the role of bunkering/healing role with side effect of boon share
also consider 1 ele and 1 mesmer sharing with each other
@messiah: I’ve run the same build with blink/portal/signet and its worked fine. Restorative Illusions offers me enough of a cleanse that I can get by with portal
trap ranger – not enough on point
burning guard – same if you try to contest
condi mesmer – not enought
group utility like feedback when 2 necro or ranger on the enemy group is almost must
null field if you team dont have enough cleanse
4 cleanse with shatter with 12 sec cd etc will kill my effectiveness isnt it?
the problem i dont use GS rather 2 sword or sword torch /pistol and trying to be on the point
with gs/staff with group my team want me to take portal so no need for boon share
maybe i fought a pu or stealthy mesmer as 2 fights i was down from stealth with GS combos
the build is solid and very intresting – i like it
i inloved with mirror – so many times rangers and necro where hitting themself 50% hp its so funny
when i see leech i use it and run to him. the leech must thinking wth he is running to me and not from me so lets hit him
mantra is nice indeed but mirror is more the guardian heal which block while give you less healing but negate more potential dmg
boon share on phatasm summon not really relayable for a good stacks of boons
first you need to create boons and it takes some time so not to use phantsm will hurst your dmg
one good boon share can turn the fight all over.
i dont say its not good and while in mid fight after 1 min its can be good
but for me the signet is more powerful also as it procs 2 boons on me
i play 2 builds atm
bunker with glamour null, warp and medic feedback thus the chaos armor uptime is long and also for my team if its get blast so more blind and boons on them
with and ele i can stack 25 might on my group along side to regen, vigor, fury, protection and resistnace more than 10 sec which is huge advantage
with condi build with carrion 1.9k armor also protection save me while i can do good dmg and condi dmg
all in all signet is better equip in any build
why i think its good instead of another break stun like decoy – give you protection swiftness and many more while you have blind and stability on shatter so you are safe from beeing burst while decoy wont really help you against cleaves etc…
portal mmmm….. – with portal you run alone so dont play boon share…. problem solved
here is some epic and failure moments. in the second fight i didnt fight with the group as i needed to rotate and cap/decap points so we could have 1v2 on far and 3v3 in mid as our pug warrior dc half of the fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrTg5q4S-NM&feature=youtu.be
(edited by messiah.1908)
you can blind with shatter with no cd from the trait (only the shatters)
also if you dodge/evade attack you blind with 10 sec cd
also each blind you proc cause confusion with no cd on it
thus any shatter will proc another stack of confusion
scepter torch can proc another with block and blind
its a very good defensive trait
+1 try its amazing
my only problem with it is another enemy powerblock mesmer with gs
if my team dont pressure himand he manage to pressure me its very hard as my dmg is far lower than his cause of gs combo
Ive played with a guard, and an ele and an engi and it was glorious but so far the best combo has been… another boonshare mesmer.
Got vids of Tealots and I tearing it up on double boonshare. (Still gotta try the condi version)
oh hell yes two boonshare mesmer ftw but they need few seconds to build them up
i like ele the most cause of the longer might stacks and regen
i cant say which version i like the most
power is power best atm. but with condi i feel i can hold bit longer and stand on point
also with condi i feel i can take on any class and build while with power i may need to be more careful
maybe its just my game play
i will try load up some failed 1v2 i tried while on match (the point was to do 1v2 so my team can do 4v3)
the current meta is full zerk/ power thus you aint see much burning guard as team doing instagab burst
burning guard can force enemy to be on defense and on cleanse toes
sre if bunker guard or 2 eles in the enemy team he will have hard time thus he will need to rotate far or close for better results
on points its good build as it force you to stay off the point
guys you have to play this build or its condi version with an ele or staff guard
preety much 25 might stacks on your group if you play it right
not to mention stability, vigot, fury, swiftness and sometimes aegis
i hope i save the video from yesterday 3v4 on mid versus 2 medgaurd, necor and thief
we nailed them so fast with me putting time warp on the point
My Condi Mesmer, Relies on Torment/Blind and Confusion, can stack it up very quickly if played correctly
i can do a Vid on me playing it if wanted
you crit chance is 4% and you took critical sigils (fury only for 5 sec)