But unlike power, Condi rangers aren’t gonna get much more powerful than they currently are now, which is average.
I personally never use gs anymore, but I know a lot of rangers out there cant use 1h.
*won’t. Because one-handers are horrible in viable power builds. You’ll only see MH axe or sword in Condi bunker builds.
Beastmasters Bond/MoC/Remorseless/2hT/ZS is where it’s at imo. Awesome synergy.
Yeah I’m super excited about this. Can go very tanky too, don’t need much crit.
All spirits will have a base 75% proc chance and maul will never ever become a blast finisher because it would be OP on such a short CD. So I would cross those two off.
I always enjoy people screaming at me how bad a player I am when I’ve held a point against 2-3 for 20+ seconds and the rest of my team has swept up the entire board.
That you don’t know how a bunker wins matches doesn’t make them pointless.
Except that I was one of the first to use the cleric BM bunker 2 years ago in spvp and roaming, and afaik the first to put out a YouTube guide about it. I know everything about bunking as a cleric ranger, which is why I’m telling you it’s totally pointless. Not only is bunking no longer a part of any meta, but rangers were always the second rate sidepoint bunkers, now done better by any of the cele roaming specs. And this type of bunking is now done with shaman gear / settler ammy.
Sword is completely non-viable in zergs because it separates you from the group… it’s a skirmishing weapon.
I see strider’s defense as a way of dealing with us blowing up when 1-1-1’ing with the sword. It’s near useless because we are mostly killed by cleave, ground-targeted aoe’s, pbaoe’s and non-projectile ranged attacks. I think SD should simply give a flat defensive bonus while meeleing someone. Forget destroying projectiles, I give zero kittens about that situational scenario. -10-15% damage taken while in mêlée should be good.
Merging EB and IG would be money. A nice, competitive GM for sustain builds. Not OP
^this. MDG needs to ‘tick’ for more, of simply more often. 2 stacks of might per second, each lasting 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a reasonable amount of time to be under 50% HP, so at best you’ll peak at 8-10 stacks without might duration. Investing in might duration should be rewarding as staying below 50 is risky. I don’t recall warriors and eles needing to take this risk, and they tend to finish fights with 20 stacks and full HP by basically facerolling.
Anyone saying current MDG is useful needs a reality check. So if Peters moves this to GM, it better be at least as effective as I suggested above, hopefully even more effective. Remember, in pvp, we can’t actually stack might effectively with RaO because our pets can’t make contact. This is the reality of it.
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^what drivel. Thanks grouch, sounds like the change everyone’s been asking for.
My old unkillable ranger for pvp is Dead. I don’t think any ranger trait set-up comes close to the old unkillable build. I’ve posted it somewhere, but its a cleric build with survival utilities and bark skin. Double melee. It takes about 4 players to take me out, and since its such an unusual build, even good players struggle to kill you. You’ll almost never kill anyone though.
Who cares about such a build? It’s totally pointless.
^youre pretty disconnected from reality and I’ll explain why.
- who’s gonna slot runes of the trapper? Also spike trap doesn’t protect you from cleave and ranged damage in any way. rezzing against coordinated teams will remain suicidal.
- who’s gonna stay under 50% HP for more than a few seconds? MDG is lackluster in current form
- how will strider’s defense put you in wvw zergs? Damage in wvw comes mostly from ground targeted aoe’s, not projectiles. Rifle warriors are nonexistent, glassbows were never an issue, and that’s most of the projectiles.
- when you hit 25% HP, you’re basically dead anyway. SoW needs to activate at 50%
to summarize, there are several ways to solve this:
1. merge it with another
2. add additional utility to it (stability, prot, vigor, whatever)
3. remove ICD
4. or double the heal amount
I like the idea behind this trait. I like pets doing useful things with the F2. It just needs to be a lot stronger for a grandmaster.
I think it’s really important they don’t miss this opportunity to create a proper siphon necro. they’ve skirted the issue for two years now.
Peters said to the pet, tooltip said to the ranger.
regarding offhand range, that’s probably going to become baseline buff.
I shoud be able to use main hand axe condi or power tanky or glassy with or without being a Bm.
oh I didn’t realize GS was being limited to BM only. but seriously you can still use GS. to specialize in the GS, it makes sense to do it through beastmastery.
GS and axe just work beautifully in BM for the reasons a bunch of us mentioned. In fact I would go as far as to say they don’t work better anywhere else. It seems like a well thought out change.
WH and OH axe should go with nature magic for their support function. Hunter’s Call and Whirling Defense need to be reworked completely though
I really like the pbaoe boon removal with unholy feast/axe.
I agree with just about every suggestion you’ve made, very reasonable. Invigorating bond should just not have an ICD, period. That would make it decent.
Agreed about Enlargement totally
Regarding poison master, you do know that poison will be stacking in intensity now right? It might be fine.
Ive said this in other threads, will repeat:
Pet functionality is becoming less dependent on connecting with a single target and more about pbaoe effects tied to the f2. This will ensure pets have a type of cleave effect and miss less overall.
That being said, I think I’ll enjoy pets using various specs. Some pets need f2 buffs or revamps but many will be very usable.
I love how remorseless went from absolute garbage trait that doesn’t synergize with anything to being amazing and synergizing with EVERYHING.
I’m glad they finally started taking some risks with the profession revamps, and the ranger in general
But best GS buffs should be for the BM specialists because BM benefits most from the fury procs and reduced CD’s, assuming that BM will be a tankier spec with less access to precision.
I disagree. GS works really well with pets and the BM line.
- stun, cripple, knockdown a vuln stacking work with pet and boost its damage greatly. You are in mêlée range with the pet which is pretty fun
- fury on GS autos synergies with the Remorseless GM and allows us to go tanky and stack healing power.
Overall I like MH axe and GS being THE beastmaster weapons thematically and functionally. I also like they made SB and sword skirmishing weapons. It just makes sense thematically.
I just assumed Light On Your Feet would be useless in PVE.
remorseless + two-handed training is indeed amazing. big damage boost to the BM tanks.
too much pve discussion here, making my head hurt.
Also, with these changes ranger gets elevated to god tier vuln stacking.
I’m thinking 6/0/6/0/6. Remorseless, Wilderness Knowledge and maxed pet line for 2-handed training and Beastly Warden. this way, ranger and pet are constantly applying vulnerability by refreshing opening strike. Mauls will always apply 10 stacks of vuln. both are tanky, pet is maxed, and ranger does huge damage with GS.
pick up Peak Strength for +10% damage and Expertise training for longer pet condis (e.g. fear, weakness, poison, bleeds).
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Is Poison Master’s new -66% healing not catching anybody’s attention? Or does nobody care because it competes with the new Sotf and EB? :o
From the ready up it wasnt clear if its a mistake in tooltip or not. If poison will stack in damage like they saied, and Poison Master stack 2 poison and -66% healing it will be insanly good with alot of builds , giving a good run for Sotf and completely kitten s EB.
Peters pretty much confirmed that healing wont be stacking, just the damage. it may have said otherwise on that tooltip. -66% to healing is extremely OP simply because we’ll be able to maintain perma poison on targets. I just want poison to do more damage, which we’re getting.
Well, condi regen BM bunker (0,0,6,6,6) will be very powerfull (think you will possibly run with two heals traited and two elites traited, swapping out of combat when you need) with great F2 i agree. I love my siamoth (play him since launch) and my wolf, but active clean is really too important to be assigned to my pet despite all my love.
especially with all the Oakheart salve buffs.
also, they seem to be moving away from pet’s functionality being tied down to single target damage. this is good because they cant hit reliably. instead, F2’s will have more PBAOE effects that will more effectively hit multiple targets. the taunt, the weakness, the heal in addition to the actual F2 – that’s 4 functions in one button push. I like it.
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Well they want their GM traits to be “build defining” and in all honesty Most Dangerous Game is not what i’d call “Build Defining” it adds some interesting gameplay sure, but it’s not going to make people build around it.
MDG would be interesting if they simply doubled the might duration, or reduced the interval to 1.5-2s. baseline, this would allow us to do a little something with 9 stacks of might for 3 seconds. with boon duration, we would get to 12-15 on paper, but thats a very long time to stay under 50% HP.
It’s a 1s daze/stun on a 25s cooldown. Even with quickdraw you are looking at a 16s cooldown. I would hardly call that consecutive.
Even if poison stacks in intensity, you have to be in shotgun range for it all to land. Might as well just take MH axe and trait for honed axes. You get a shotgun bleed, might stacking for pet, AOE weakness, etc. If you really want poison with that setup just take A/D, S/T and you have more than enough.
So yes, the SB is still useless.
nah, not at all. being in shotgun range is easy. havent you ever stacked 15 bleeds with Splitblade, Sharpening Stone and Sharpened Edges? same thing here, you just need one reliable immob, stun, fear, or even cripple. we’ve got so many of those you can virtually spam. and if you miss, well thats where Quickdraw comes in.
also, traited SB Concussive Shot is 20s and with 66% CD reduction, that’s 6.8s. not bad.
further, traited Quick Shot (the best, cleanest evade in the game) has a 7.2s CD; Quickdraw brings it down to 2.5s
hope that gives you some ideas. i mean, it’s not amazing, but it brings the SB closer to a viable weapon.
i just wanted to list out underwhelming traits followed by reasoning. highly opinionated but here we go:
Will not be picked under any circumstance in current form:
Wilderness Survival
- Soften the Fall: absolutely useless; MT is such a minor effect, it virtually does nothing to the flow of battle. all activate-on-fall-dmg traits are so, so situational and this one is by far the weakest; this trait will never get chosen
Beastmastery
– Natural Healing: unless we’re missing some information on major pet revamps, this will serve no purpose; also the number is way too low
Marks
- Predator’s Instinct: CD is too long, effect is too minor and other two adepts are much more interesting
Very situational requiring major rework:
Skirm
- Spike Trap: rezzing someone is usually suicide in an organized match; immob won’t protect from cleave!
Good idea but needs a little more more:
Nature Magic
- Healer’s Celerity: decent idea, but revive speed needs to be something more significant at least; this will never get chosen as it’s too weak compared to other two adepts
Marks
- Predator’s Onslaught: in its current form, not very relevant for pvp. damage increase is too minor, conditions/states are too situational (rapidly cleansed, stun-broken, and other two GM’s are too strong in comparison); 15% damage buff would make this interesting
Skirm
- Strider’s Defense: this is a situational ability belonging in adept or master at best; 1-1-1’ing with sword is pretty suicidal as it gets us cleaved down quickly and all other profs are much stronger than us in melee; projectiles are least of our problems
Additional Note:
- the 3 Wilderness Survival GM’s are great, perfect example of us needing to make tough choices; but SotF and EB working together was never overpowered on the ranger and i dont understand why they are in the same line; EB needs to be moved to beastmastery
going through this some more…few key items i like:
- i see Quickdraw becoming a new important prof mechanic that will open up a lot of builds, both power and condi
- Glassbows will no longer be glass; they will hit harder and be tankier
- Pet F2 may turn small scale fights around with Beastly Warden, Wilting Strike and Invigorating Bond all in one cast; i like that pets are getting more functionality through pbaoe’s instead of single target strikes.
- WH double blast finisher + regen – nice, but is it enough?
it was a typo. i believe the prot goes to the pet. it would be OP on us. this is indeed an awesome ability. kills the thief opener on them glassbows.
piercing arrows is with LTW. not sure what happened to Eagle Eye >.<
how about Light on Your Feet + Quickdraw +poison master? SB revival anyone?
Quickdraw feels like a big game-changer, almost like in Dota 2 when someone gets a Refresher Orb. I want it to feel that way because no other prof in gdub has that mechanic.
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Shortbow is still going to be useless.
you do know that poison now stacks in intensity? and what’s SB #2? you also know that SB has the most ezmode stun/daze in the game, and that you’ll be able to cast it twice consecutively with Quickdraw?
it’s not that straight forward to me at all.. i mean, why not run a 0/6/6/6/0 frontliner instead to get Quickdraw and go double maul? or double Path of Scars? or even 6/0/6/6/0 to get more damage and incorporate the double WH blast finisher and Protective Ward?
i think you need to think about the synergies a little more. it’s too soon to tell. my first impressions are good, but i need to theorycraft for a few days before i can come up with serious suggestions.
my main issues now:
- doesnt sound like traps will be revamped significantly
- sword and strider’s defense still suck, SB buffs still underwhelming.
- will individual pets get revamped?
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honestly i give zero kittens about any of the cheese builds being played right now. or about what build YOU are playing. this game needs a complete pvp reset. old builds will die, new ones will emerge.
also remember that you’ll be able to pick max out 3 lines and have 3 GM’s.
OH axe definitely need to be reworked, at least Whirling Defense. that’s probably on their to-do list.
the silly thing about ambidexterity is simply that they are trying to make us choose between buffing pet condis vs. our condis. which is silly, of course no one will choose Expertise Training, unless there is some major pathfinding and AI overhaul planned.
im glad axes have moved away from the skirmishing line. sword and SB are the prototypical skirmishing weapons imo. i think maxed skirmishing and wilderness survival lines look super cool. im thinking about a very survivable bleed/poison build with sb/s/d. throw in Evasive Purity and Protective Ward from Nature Magic.
for some reason, GS feels right with pets. but that’s just a feeling i have.
also remember that we’ll be able to max out 3 trees, meaning 3 GM’s. the main challenge will be making each master, adept and GM competitive with the other two in that same slot. right now, certain ones seem vastly superior, but it’s still early.
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Nature Magic
- grandmaster minor Lingering Magic boons applied by ranger and pet last longer; +20% and +50% respectively
Adept:
- bountiful Hunter: ranger and pet deal +1% damage per boon on them
- Nature’s Wrath: pet gains extra stats, ranger gains 10% healing converted to power
- Healer’s Celerity: now adds swiftness (no one will slot this)
Master
- Evasive Purity: now removes cripple as well (love it, leave it)
- Vigorous Training: same as before (applies to allies too) just moved to this tree now
- Windborne Notes: Call of the Wild now grants regen too, -20% WH CD’s.
Grandmaster
- Nature’s Vengeance: activated skills of spirits are larger and trigger when spirit is killed; spirits no longer move with ranger, period. 70% trigger chance is baseline; CD’s, passive and actives will get buffed
- Protective Ward: when ranger receives damage, nearby foes are weakened and pet gains 8s protection (12s ICD)
- Invigorating bond: no change (might be usable now if we grab Beastly Warden, making pet F2 an incredible game-changer)
Beastmastery
- master minor: Loud Whistle: F2 and swap recharge 20% faster
- grandmaster minor: +450 pet ferocity +30% pet speed
Adept:
- Resounding Timbre: shouts apply regen and swiftness to allies; reduces shout recharge
Master:
- Wilting Strike: pet F2’s cause weakness (occurs only once per target, unclear)
- Two-Handed Training: fury on hit 50% chance, -20% GS CD’s, +5% GS damage
- Natural Healing: pet gains regen and healing power
Grandmaster
- Beastly Warden: pet gets AOE taunt on F2 use, 15s CD; radius unknown
- Zephyr’s speed: now pet and ranger get quickness and 3 stacks of might
- Honed Axes: +150 ferocity, -20% axe CD, Winter’s Bite becomes aoe if axe is in MH
(edited by mistsim.2748)
all changes below. traps and spirits are subject to most changes in the near future. i added my suggestions in brackets below, please add yours. please keep feedback focused. Let me know if i missed anything.
General:
1. Troll Unguent is now a survival skill.
(incredible. meaning we now get fury, condi removal, and CD reduction?!?)
2. HaO and Rampage are now shouts.
(they are pushing for a shout line. may be good only if all other shouts are buffed greatly, otherwise HaO and Rampage will remain the best shouts; RaO will synergize with beastmastery which makes sense)
3. Traps now have 0.5s arming time; all trap traits are now one master trait.
(absolutely not enough. traps need additional utility to make them useful, e.g. built in stun breakers, boons, stealth, etc. that is the problem with traps – no utility, no survivability)
4. Spirits reworked to be area denial skills, no longer move with ranger.
(very cool, especially with upcoming buffs to their passives, actives, and CD)
6. not sure where Healing Spring will go (joking about making it a trap)
(remove the spirit heal, make HS a spirit. solved.)
Marksmanship
Adept:
- Call of Wild cast when swapping pets: fury, might and swiftness + blast finisher; affected by WH traiting like +regen
(great strides toward making WH viable. love the double blast finish. my suggestion is to remove the might stack and make CoW remove 1 condi off allies. Hunter’s Call still needs fixing, either more damage, aoe effect, or additional utility like blind, cripple, etc.)
Master:
- Beastmaster’s Might – activating a signet refreshes opening strike and grants 3 might stacks to pet and ranger; -20% signet CD’s
- MoC is now master
Grandmaster
- Predator’s Onslaught: +10% dmg from pet and ranger against dazed and stunned opponents in addition to crippled, chilled and immob’d
(most of the time, the target wont be chilled, dazed, crippled, stunned, or immob’d; this is mostly due to the many cleanses that exist in game. therefore, when these condis are applied by ranger and pet, damage bonus needs to be greater; 10 —> 15-20 should do it to make the grandmaster competitive in pvp)
- Remorseless: opening strikes now deal +25% damage and is refreshed every time we gain fury (no ICD currently)
- RTW —> Lead the Wind (LTW) – same as RTW in addition to piercing arrows and -20% LB CD’s
Skirmishing
Adept:
- Sharpened Edges applies to ranger and pet
- Most Dangerous Game: when below 50% health, rangers gains +3 might (6s) every 3s, will be become grandmaster likely
(MDG could be a beautiful trait that encourages evasion, mobility, and adds excitement. unfortunately, it’s crippled by the short might duration and lack of utility. either add some utility to it, or buff the might stacking aspect of it. double the might duration to allow ranger to stack at least 9 might, then move it to grandmaster)
Master:
- Primal Reflexes: gain 5s vigor (10s CD) when successfully evading an attack
(when successfully evading an attack now means seeing the “evade” word on the screen)
- Trapper’s Expertise: all trap traits in one (will be moved to adept)
(as mentioned above, traps need utility. either for the ranger, or the group. also they shouldnt be dodgeable i.e. wasted by someone dodge rolling over them)
Grandmaster
- Quickdraw: when swapping weapons, next weapon skill used recharges 66% faster
(i love it. leave it, let us play with it. we need more game-changing skill like this one.)
- Light On Your Feet: +10% SB damage, 20% SB CD reduction, +10% condi duration; SB arrows pierce (may be moved to master)
(i’ve been wanting to love the SB since release; this would be decent if SB received a baseline buff; well with poison stacking in intensity, #2 might be a cool condi burst)
- Strider’s Defense: 20% sword skill recharge, 50% chance to destroy projectile while executing melee attack, +10% damage with sword
(without sword skill reworks, kind of useless; 1-1-1’ing with the sword is suicide, not because of projectiles, but because we get popped by other melee that do so much more damage in addition to bringing a lot of utility)
Wilderness Survival
- Bark Skin: now minor; ranger and pet take 50% less damage while above 90% HP
Adept:
- Ambidexterity: +150 condi damage while holding dagger or torch; -20% torch and dagger CD’s
- expertise Training: pets gain +250 condi damage and +20% condi duration
Master
- Oakheart Salve: -5% damage taken while regenning; regen when burning, poisoned or bleeding
- Peak Strength: pet and ranger deal +10% if health is above 90%
Grandmaster
- SotF + Sharpening stone proc when target gets below 75% now combined
- Poison Master: same as now, but poison as a general condition will stack increasing damage (not -healing)
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special request: could you guys preview a little bit of the druid? either the trait lines, or the utilities? =)
entangle is really strong, and condi bunker in general for the sustain. entangle pretty much “one-shots” heros, immobing them for the entire duration. sustain in lane and 1v1 ability makes it a super strong build. I won my lane every game I played
haven’t tried power, but it’s probably ok. questionable if better than medi guard for killing other players, which just felt so, so strong.
traps are just silly but maybe you guys will prove me wrong. while they seem appealing for laning, you cant 1v1 anyone with them and you have no mobility. glassbow has mobility, and bunker can just stay in lane all game due to its sustain.
as a few people have already said, SH appears to be all about mobility and dps. I didn’t see any “shepherd” specs making any difference, other than giving swiftness to the npcs. npc’s will always be shut down hard by any hard-hitting roamer.
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what’s wrong with turret engies? my condi bunker ranger eats them for breakfast. just the other night myself and 2 friends annihilated a full premade with 2 turret engies, well-played too. turret engies just need to be counterplayed, they have no condi cleanse.
Ive been facing many turret engis this evening while I was testing Turret myself. I rekt them all 1v1 with +90% hp. That means they have no knowledge what they’re running and don’t read/know what the utilties actually do and their cast-to-action time.
If you would face a turret engi will full knowledge about engi and its build, I think the story could be otherwise.
Ofc, this also depends on the team he was on
this type of response leads to a silly, circular argument. basically, my response will be that these turret engies knew what they were doing, and they got wrecked by counterplay. and now your turn.
with only two viable amulets, a completely bonkers matchmaker, no interesting rewards, and unpunished 5v4’s, I believe this is the worst GW2’s pvp has ever been.
I played about 5 matches today, 3 of which were 5v4’s. rage quits, dc’s, afk’s, you name it. with no system in place to severely punish this type of behavior, I basically have no hopes for this cesspool of a pvp game.
what’s wrong with turret engies? my condi bunker ranger eats them for breakfast. just the other night myself and 2 friends annihilated a full premade with 2 turret engies, well-played too. turret engies just need to be counterplayed, they have no condi cleanse.
why would you op out of the new map? current wvw maps make me cry tears of boredom. I feel nauseated upon entering wvw after 1500 hours playing the same stuff.
how would it not benefit the game? btw, SH will last 15-20-ish mins at least. some of us don’t like to grind the leaderboards with mass losses for points. wins should matter, and when they do, we need to be able to pause the game. it’s simply a feature of a competitive pvp game.
additionally, it doesn’t have much to do with how long the game is, but how small the teams are. the smaller the teams, the more each player matters. gw2 isn’t a fps where you respawn instantly.
as I like to do often, today I was thinking about why I play so much dota 2 and so little GW2 lately. while nothing can replace the joy of GW2’s combat, quite a few multiplayer titles provide a more complete and balanced pvp experience. lately I’ve been spending most of my gaming time in dota 2 and BF4 because, overall, my experience feels more stable and complete in those games.
GW2 is missing so many core features and I understand devs are quite overwhelmed with the new stuff coming up. but a lot of it is meaningless if certain features aren’t in place. for example, the pause feature. it’s a 5v5 and every player matters. if one player dc’s for whatever reason, the game is over for his team.
so please ANet, add the pause function. it will be even more important for Stronghold. nothing ragey about my post, I quit gw2 and come back all the time (but tend not to support the game by buying gems any more). I get we cant get everything. but there are certain core features (like a functional leaderboards and build templates which are being discussed elsewhere) that no serious pvp game should be without.
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playing a glassbow perfectly is very rewarding. id say it’s worth getting good at it. but i feel the xpac and the druid will mix things up a lot. everything will change.
im getting 5-7min queues these days, so I rarely play. i like dota 2 enough and the queue pops are in under a min, so i’m doing that until the xpac hits. nothing really motivates me to play conquest currently.
ragequit gw looking forward to cu after first 5 min of the presentation.
Anet give a s…t on what the wvw communtiy was looking for and releases eotm/cancerhammer 2.0 for ther casual/pve/ppt hereos .
asymmetric map for competitive fights? works not on oetm and will never work!
This presantation destroy my last hopes about wvw in gw. So hope anet not destroy pvp until cu headstart.
See you there :-(
hey, like im sorry to break this to you man but CU is about 2.5-3 years away. the plans they’ve advertised are mere fantasy atm, as they’ve made very little tangible progress. so what’s the point of even fantasizing about it? im looking forward to CU as well, but it will be a long while before it’s ready.