Guild Wars 2

I disagree with some people here, I think this map will be amazing for roamers and small groups. I guess time will tell.

i really have no idea whether I’ll like this or not. i honestly cant tell from the vids. i like the aesthetics, but i can only hope they made the objectives and PPT fun and rewarding. otherwise no one will play. i don’t mind playing a more RTS-like map, but again…it needs to be fun and rewarding.

so while i am willing to give it a chance of course, i cant say i understand the reasons for the design choices. the devs are not giving the community what they’ve been asking for (gvg support and open field combat). this map will also make GvZ raids either silly or impossible. for many people i believe, this is the end of WvW. for me, im willing to try something new…

role? abilities? what do u guys think?

1. be aggressive
2. know your cooldowns and use them liberally
3. know your high ground and LOS spots
4. have the right build

f2’s work fine, AI is fine. it wont get better. pets need a 90% aoe resistance in wvw and an additional pbaoe active skill that can influence fights significantly (like canine f2’s). most pets need a significant rework of their f2’s.

matchmaker is still garbage to be honest. MMR needs to be displayed, the matchmaker needs to distribute profs evenly and have amulet choice as part of its algorithm, and stop matching 3-5 man premades with 5 soloq’ers. leaderboards needs to matter. needs to be MMR with brackets. no one cares about how much you’ve played.

they confirmed yes. I hope pets are reworked, buffed, and/or given a second active skill.

I doubt they will be willing to fundamentally rework the pet. the most I can hope for are two things:

- an additional pbaoe active skill (f3)
- 90% aoe resist in wvw

also, I can almost guarantee no shapeshifting. it’s not anet’s style, and they already poorly implemented this with the norn racials. I don’t think anet sees the druid as a shapeshifter, but instead as a forest magic “caster”. likely, we’ll get sustain, more cc’s and group utility.

veewee get outta here man. are you serious? you must be trolling cuz I thought ud have something more useful to complain about regarding our current meta.

there is absolutely nothing OP about the condi bunker. it’s one of the easiest specs to lock down and its only role is very situational – 1v1’s at home. out of all the sustain specs, it’s probably the weakest. entangle is super easy to counter and if anything, its CD to be reduced a little and muddy terrain reworked into something more useful.

^it’s still total garbage. never used by anyone good. not used in any viable, competitive build.

anyway, I fully agree with just about all of those OP. all we can hope for is that they do a once-over of all the traits and utilities for the xpac. colin HINTED they would. I hope this includes WH and OH axe which are entirely useless in organized pvp.

^ I agree with this. in a team environment, glassbow brings much more to the table. 1v1’ing a d/d ele is….situational. and the build is fairly niche, meaning that you wont be good at much else. as we discussed above, if the opponent +1’s the fight, youre a goner. in a teamfight, condi ranger is vastly inferior to a good glassbow.

all in all, I feel none of this will matter when the druid is released

don’t try to instruct them. don’t whisper them, don’t give them feedback. the player is already doing poorly, so he’ll get really defensive and wont listen to you. he’s already feeling like kitten probably. the best thing to do in these situations is to accept the defeat and play your best to try to win.

people must be ready to improve, and the first step is admitting that they are the problem, not their team. there is nothing you can do except to lead by example.

very cool, gonna try that…never thought about condi prioritization.

edit: tested it and holy kitten, I think I learned something today. that’s like 4-5 condis spammed constantly. this should greatly improve damage. this will greatly improve applied dps against the d/d’s out there… no wonder ive been struggling with them.

im very excited for these changes.

Supcutie.2538:

(whereas a mix of Mes/Thief/dps Guard could land damage by porting to the enemy or stealthing to them behind their line of sight).
.

not for long son, LOS patch is coming.

kiwituatara.6053:

Eurantien.4632:

This does: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAnY8fjEqUxa/KusQ1aABhaVA0uGS2719QcDf9AbA-TZhGwATLDY4JAQ4EAA4gAQa/BA

Might try poison master, healing spring, spiders and malicious training.

Why sigil of frailty instead of maybe another geomancy runes? An extra condition to buffer other condis from getting cleansed?

I believe he made a mistake, he also put on 2 hydromancy. I like energy/geomancy on both weapons.

right on. pets definitely need another layer to them, an all active skills need to be powerful pbaoe’s like canine f2’s, or powerful single targets like spider f2.

but I think that (if they’ve been listening) a lot of our gaps will be addressed by the druid. I just hope they did a once-over to buff pet utility.

it’s like with the thief…what separates the pro thief from the rest is their shortbow game, hands down. for power ranger, it’s knowing the high ground, and GS game.

Eurantien.4632:

mistsim.2748:

Eurantien.4632:

@Mistism, I respect your opinion but having dueled one of the if not THE best 1v1 d/d ele in sPvP in the game with this build I can tell you it works. I only offered some alternatives that might make the build stronger in certain ways. The current iteration is what I prefer but I could see certain swaps with what I suggested that could make it more potent given the situation.

but didn’t phanta keep home decapped from u all match in the tourney? I mean u did okay against him, but u couldn’t kill him.

That’s just the nature of it. No ranger build can kill a d/d ele super fast. Any build that does ENOUGH damage that fast just gets out sustained by a good d/d ele. Therefore, you have to fight fire with fire and go for damage and sustain. Sure, I didn’t kill him during WTS but I was winning the fights so eventually he would have died. However, things happening on the rest of the map allowed for help to come in and end the fight sooner.

noted. the one thing I struggle with when I bunk home as ranger is the +1, which is where the prof falls short in this meta (correct me if im wrong). it just feels a warrior or another d/d ele could hold out much easier against a roaming thief, whereas on the ranger, I feel like im popping all my cd’s just to keep up with the celestial ele. the +1 comes, and I’ve got nothing left. do you find this as well, or do I just need to get better?

just went up against a 3-man Apex premade, with all of us scrubs soloq’d. most of my team got farmed and one dude even finished with zero points.

look, i’ll be frank. kitten like this doesn’t bother me too much, it really doesn’t. all it means is instant quit, and back to dota 2, and im happy. but I do care for this game and I hope devs are working hard to fix this terrible matchmaker

Eurantien.4632:

@Mistism, I respect your opinion but having dueled one of the if not THE best 1v1 d/d ele in sPvP in the game with this build I can tell you it works. I only offered some alternatives that might make the build stronger in certain ways. The current iteration is what I prefer but I could see certain swaps with what I suggested that could make it more potent given the situation.

but didn’t phanta keep home decapped from u all match in the tourney? I mean u did okay against him, but u couldn’t kill him.

Eurantien.4632:

This does: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAnY8fjEqUxa/KusQ1aABhaVA0uGS2719QcDf9AbA-TZhGwATLDY4JAQ4EAA4gAQa/BA

Might try poison master, healing spring, spiders and malicious training.

at best, a stalemate. against a very good d/d ele who manages his cd’s perfectly, we wouldn’t be able to output enough damage due to massive cleansing. healing spring wouldn’t get us enough heals, even with a leap or two. and cd is too long.

poison master looks very interesting though, haven’t played around with it yet.

I think this upcoming buff is excellent and will be very strong for wilderness survival builds. finally we’re gonna have 2 stealths. I also feel druid would be very strong with that trait line, if it remains available.

runeblade.7514:

Which is easier?

Buffing 18 other amulet or nerfing 1 amulet?

but cele/zerker meta exists for a reason. zerkers need to spike people down, and cele’s need to survive it while doing damage in return, holding points and sustaining teammates. other amulets simply need buffs to open up more specs that can do the same thing.

xDudisx.5914:

Zerker uses direct dmg. Cele uses a bit of everything. How do you plan buffing others without the side effect of buffing those 2 even more?

I don’t understand. Im suggesting to leave cele and zerker as is. make other ammies more relevant.

I like these ideas…I’ve posted a thread on this a year ago, which got buried. My suggestion was to give us wisps that orbit the ranger and imbue our attacks. They’re invulnerable but have actives that use up the wisp for additional utility like creating a field and stunbreaking. This would also reduce clutter.

Downed ranger with canine pets can be a nightmare. But it’s countered by blind, invuln, and stability. So what’s the problem? This is then one and possibly only perk of having the pet mechanic.

I still feel some boundaries need to exist for balance purposes. Even buffing a few amulets would open up a dozen new builds. As I mentioned, cleric amulet specs just don’t do any damage, so buff its damage. Carrion and rampager just don’t have enough sustain, so give them some healing power. Small steps like this would go a long way.

I’ve grown to love conquest and the major problem has always been build variety. More profs need to be viable as roamers, not just the thief. More profs need to be able to 1v1, not just the celestial specs.

SH will distract us from build variety problems and create new roles potentially. But exclude some others. I think I’ll still be playing conquest. What I truly hope is they buff certain amulets to address low build variety at its root.

I was all about nerfing the cele ammy but lately I’ve been thinking….

Why not leave cele and zerker ammies as they are? Almost every prof has a viable zerker spec, and many have viable cele specs. The interaction between the two amulets is pretty fun to watch. Most of us absolutely loved the finals.

So why not buff all the others? For example:
- why not give cleric some crit to buff its damage?
- why not give rabid some more power to truly make it a Condi-based powerhouse? The zerker version of the Condi specs.
- alternatively, give rampager and carrion a little bit of sustain

These are just examples, maybe bad ones. But if something works, no need to fix it. To introduce new builds into the game, why not just make the other 80% of the amulets viable at a high skill level? Thoughts?

Eurantien.4632:

Power ranger works with mesmer simply because of portal and the high ranged dps

That play where U took supcutie’s port as U were going down so he could res you was my favourite cuz I thought U were a goner (in addition to some of tage’s JI’s but that always looks too good)

I certainly feel eura did great for a power ranger, but dankening had far greater issues. In fact I feel eura played a fairly solid game in comparison to, say, Ozie and the engie who were basically rallybait and made some questionable plays.

Overall though I feel power ranger contribution is highly dependent on a very strong team, and may be a good alternative to playing a shatter mesmer. But even then, a good thief is vastly more valuable. The thief can gank and decap much better, this remains fact. Whereas the ranger has a higher sustained dps from range and a bit of burst, which is less risky.

The other thing to notice is how easily abjured dealt with the power ranger in comparison to orng and especially the Chinese team which allowed him to basically freecast.

Definitely not trying to hate, just saying that the power ranger is extremely situational competitively and likely eura will agree with this.

Until mmr is displayed, any sort of sense of achievement in pvp will not exist. Current leaderboards are entirely pointless (devs I hope you’re reading this) because they uprank people who play more, not those who are more skilled.

Also without mmr we can’t tell what bracket we’re in. We can’t acknowledge that a 3k mmr player defeated a 7k mmr player, so again, there is no sense of achievement and we have nothing to talk about. Well, I can say I defeated ostrich or caed in a 1v1, but that’s about it. And there is no real point in playing ‘better’ instead of more, or trying ‘harder’ to improve your game. There is nothing to strive for, as the current leaderboards reward average players who simply have more time on their hands.

So no mmr = no real pvp. Simple as that.

This may not address op’s l2p concerns, but it does point to the fact that we need accurate mmr bracket and we need to know which one we’re in!

Arken.3725:

I’ll contribute from a meditation guardian standpoint. Primarily Hammer/Staff.

this isn’t really a viable competitive option.

hey. a common misunderstanding about the thief is that youre supposed to 1v1 people. this is false. you can watch any of the professional matches, or even witness it in higher ranked games. thieves have 3 roles:

1. to +1 fights
2. to roam and decap (but usually not hold)
3. burst down other glass

both s/d and d/p +1 fights, meaning that you stay on the outside either invis or contributing some dps with shortbow from range. you jump in to lock down someone who is low (<40% health). you will never be too successful 1v1’ing most other specs as d/p or s/d, but you can significantly soften them up or even outright kill the bads.

there are several cheese condi builds more suitable for 1v1’s but you simply wont be able to contribute anything to your team by doing this. conquest is about roaming, and farpoint 1v1’s require high sustain + condi pressure celestial specs.

hope that helps.

well dankening didn’t play safe builds and they had a power ranger, it’s all great fun. but they got annihilated, and even struggled with the Chinese team.

but to your point, yes, cele engi/ele makes many other builds obsolete.

^ this guy’s got it. power rangers can appear strong against average players, but they lack something to be truly competitive.

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

the whole point of this discussion is that the matchmaker needs a revamp when it comes to prof distribution. one side should never have 2 guards while the other has zero. one side should never have 3 rangers while the other has none. and so on. this needs to be a major RULE the matchmaker follows. then, amulets. cant have 3 cele amulets on one side, none on the other.

The problem isn’t matchmaking system. When matchmaking is flooded by profession-X and profession-Y because people want phat lewts guess what will happen.

As far as amulets.. lol… Never gonna happen. And to be honest I don’t think I solo queue into teams with 3+ celes.

doesn’t have to be 3+ celes. it can be as simple as 2 zerker guards against a team of 2 thieves and a necro. the thieves and the necro will get annihilated by the counterplay. also, something like 2 rangers and 2 necros on one team – they cant hold a point, they cant roam.

matchmaker needs to consider these things for conquest, otherwise it’s a joke.

the whole point of this discussion is that the matchmaker needs a revamp when it comes to prof distribution. one side should never have 2 guards while the other has zero. one side should never have 3 rangers while the other has none. and so on. this needs to be a major RULE the matchmaker follows. then, amulets. cant have 3 cele amulets on one side, none on the other.

PariahX.6970:

TBH we can have open field WvW in a lot of places if we choose to but the problem is people go where the rewards are biggest

exactly, which is why open field fights should be rewarded by winning some sort of objective that gives gear/gold in addition to ppt for your server. this would also make gvg’s more relevant as well

SkylightMoon.1980:

Nos got his kitten handed to him because of necro weakness. They should have never replaced OE. Because nos was out of play so much they were 4v5ing so much

Nos is real smug, can stand listening to that dude. this match was karma.

necro is very strong when played right, but I agree with ranger and Mesmer needing something.

ranger has no place in the current meta, once again as demonstrated by today’s matches. condi bunker cant win against other cele builds, and power is simply too situational requiring an extremely solid team that will peel for you and give you room to roam and dps.

agreed. take out timer, it’s completely unnecessary. SH is meant to be a longer, more strategic game with lost of opportunity for turnarounds.

i feel the verticality and sharp angles of the map will definitely break zergs apart. i hope there is still room for open field fights somewhere, hopefully over some important objective!

the real winner here is Ostrich Eggs.

how do you guys feel about this?

personally, I love the visuals of the map, but given the verticality and chokes, I don’t think it will be possible to enjoy the epic open field fights we used to have. im not sure how I feel about this yet.

coming back is trivial, requires very little effort. so do it if u want. but I feel there’s no point in coming back until the xpac comes out. too many of the same problems remain.

ranger traits atm are the best they’ve ever been. there are a few grandmasters that are entirely useless, and the BM line requires revamps. but for the most part, ranger utilities is where the work needs to happen. I believe 3 lines are entirely useless in pvp (shouts, traps, spirits). signets and survival work well enough.

on the bright side, from what colin said in one of the interviews, theyre improving the old prof content, in addition to the new specs, for hots.

all of this community’s great ideas went into the huge CDI thread, and we’re hoping they used all this feedback to create the Druid. waiting to see.

faced 4 guardians the other day, twice, while my team had zero guards and two thieves who kept getting slaughtered. we couldn’t hold a single point.

it’s very necessary. this isn’t just a “moba element”. it’s balance.

currently, the matchmaker is broken. for conquest, to hold a point, you need sustain, CC and burst. you need roamers. so, if one team has 2 necros, 2 rangers and X, they likely wont be able to hold a point and wont be able to roam. if one team has no heavies or celestial builds, they wont be able to hold a point. these ridiculous comps happen to me several times a night.

GW2 unfortunately has elements of rock paper scissors balancing, as it’s not balanced around 1v1. there are profs that cant 1v1 too well, there are profs that can roam to well, or bunker too well. if we have RPS elements, there needs to be counter play in the drafting process, i.e. picking and counterpicking.

to add insult to injury, the matchmaker currently doesn’t distribute professions equally across the two teams. it’s entirely broken. pvp is a bit of a joke imo.

Aomine.5012:

I disagree with the low skill cap argument for ranger.
Power ranger has some of the highest skill cap, depending on how glassy you are..

I don’t think you quite understand what skill cap is. it’s basically the time and effort required to learn proficiency with a spec/prof. the more tools and CD’s are needed to generate effectiveness, the higher the skill cap. for example, triple kit engies have a high skill cap.

glassbows don’t have many tools and the spec is simple. you have to basically manage a handful of cooldowns and maintain range, but mostly youre pressing a few buttons to generate an effect. the rest is all about learning the game mode, positioning, and timing, which aren’t related to mechanical skill, but to game sense. glassbows require a lot of game sense.

rangers are in a bit of a rough shape competitively because they don’t have the toolset required to “get better” and become more effective. the prof is limited by the tools, not the player, so it has a low skill ceiling. something like a d/d ele is limited by the player, not by the toolset. the player has many, many tools at his disposal which he can learn over a long period and get much better over time. therefore, the spec has a higher skill cap.

I hope this helps in your understanding.

just another game, exactly the same. 4 guards against a bunch of glass (also bad players so that didn’t help). Justin, what are your plans to fix this silliness man? this isn’t pvp.