I stopped caring when it became obvious what a grind it was.
So you rather sit on the pile of ashes what used to be the WvW alone, insteat of encourageing new players to play as a team for your server?
Rewards don’t encourage players to stick around unless they love the mode, look at what happened to spvp. As it happens these rewards are so long term that some may stick around for that length of time however that is a double edged sword with it also serving as a demotivating factor for a lot of players. Plus the way these rewards are structured don’t encourage players to play ‘for their server’ they just encourage players to play in a way to maximise their pips.
I want anet to actually make changes to fix the mode not just fritter away with short term solutions that don’t make any real difference or make the mode better.
There is a very good reason why rewards are tied to ticks. Coming up with other systems doesn’t remove the primary reason that system is there; so that you can get rewards at a reasonable pace without karmatraining. Apart from AFKers, this system has been perfectly fine- and it continues to be perfectly fine so long as you can hit reasonable targets to refresh your decay, or you’re getting scout credit which is refreshing your decay.
When you look at how players are able to exploit the system like the player earlier in the thread that gets his participation up then sets a timer and logs out of WvW and into PvE and comes back into WvW when his timer goes to maintain his participation, then the system is not fine. The reward track gives rewards for actual WvW activities perfectly fine. If boosters are an issue then tweak them.
At the bare minimum, reward track progress should be based on raw WXP gain (like the PVP reward tracks do with rank points) instead of this degrees-of-seperation participation garbage. That would literally solve all the problems: rewards would be based on active play, and you won’t get penalized because you had to wait out RI on a camp or run halfway across the map to find something to kill/capture.
Yeah this is spot on they actually had a good system that they could have piggy backed on, instead they choose to over complicate it and create a new system that is simply inadequate.
My thoughts are if you enter WvW with the “what’s in it for me” attitude, that will kill the game mode faster than anything else.
Yet this is exactly what this pip system encourages. Look at the decay thread where there is 1 guy who gets his participation up then sets a timer and goes back to PvE then hops back in WvW when his timer goes.
It’s your mistake for going into WvW for the rewards.
The mode is kitten, the only reason to play at this point is for rewards or as a social experience with your guild.
Anet have done nothing to fix the mode in fact if anything its even worse because they won’t take the measures needed to fix the actual problems with it.
So after a few good discussion with friends and guildmates, I’ve come to the conclusion that the outnumbered buff was a great idea stemming from good intentions
Anet always has good intentions and they always backfire in ways that could have been foreseen. Not just the outnumbered buff but the way we earn pips did not break up zergs but makes servers zerg harder just like all their other attempts to do this. They have no idea about developing for a RvR mode.
Some more feedback. Its probably been said already but how do anet justify T3 armour taking far longer than legendary armour to acquire when its just ascended, albeit good looking ascended armor.
There’s no skill element to it.
Grinding rank and earning pips have no fundamental group or personal skill requirement. There’s no absolute skill required to pip well; you just need to do better than your opponents. You don’t even need to actually play- many people are earning many pips by afking.
You can’t AFK the legendary armor unless you’re obscenely rich. You can’t lowskill the legendary armor unless you’re obscenely rich.
Sure you can, you know guilds sell raid runs right. And thats leaving aside the fact that raids dont require a lot of skill anyway.
Some more feedback. Its probably been said already but how do anet justify T3 armour taking far longer than legendary armour to acquire when its just ascended, albeit good looking ascended armor.
Ok, that’s a real problem, now let’s see you try and fix it.
Blowing everything up isn’t going to solve anything. Even if you make the servers even now, that potential population will still be lurking. Even if you force people who return in the future to disperse evenly, people playing now will quit/return and the cycle will begin anew.
It’s not a solvable problem. The only hope is to mitigate it.
There is a fix, the battlegroup proposal or some other alliance system.
Hopefully with 1 up 1 down linking will be done on the basis of server ranking and who the server will likely be facing across 2 tiers, but knowing anet I doubt it.
No. There’s nothing skillful determining your rank.
Er there’s nothing skillful about raiding and getting the T3 armor is certainly more work than the legendary armor.
Is that the idea? Throw more rewards and shiny things at new and veteran players so hopefully nobody notices how this mode still has zero balance? How can you have a competitive game mode with the current state of balance? Rewards are great, but the power creep has gotten absurd. You do realize that there are many who have quit over the past year because the skill floor in the game has gotten to absolute zero right?
Pretty much thats what it looks like yes.
Which server are people in high queues on? If you’re on BG too bad for stacking on a server for only 1 reason.
Is there anyway to lower the rank requirement for t3 armor from 2000 to say 500? Maybe 700 or even 1000? 2000 ranks requires you to play around 3-5 hrs a day in wvw mostly doing player vs door for a year. Any way you guys could reconsider, as I’ve lost motivation and feel it’s an egregious amount especially since I like zerg vs zerg and roaming and not pvd.
I’ve played a good amount of wvw since launch and am rank 364 with about 360 hrs in wvw. Feels unobtainable.
No, if you’re only rank 364 you havent done that much. Its a reward for dedicated players and so it should remain
Our stance hasn’t changed on this. My response that Xenesisll linked is still the same.
Then you’re just as out of touch with your players as everyone thinks you are. On that note, my guild is down to running WvW once a week or even less when we used to run 5 days a week, this is because of the lack of your team caring about how the players want to play the game. Every higher skilled GVG guild has quit the game because of it and almost all that is left is what you wanted there to be, just pug zergs. But by all means, it’s your game, keep on displeasing your players and driving them away since you clearly know what the players want more than they do.
And I’m sure this will get deleted because having any opinion other than yours is not acceptable and is hidden from everyone. Another reason I stopped coming this this forum unless I really felt like I needed to.
Well said i endorse this stance
(edited by morrolan.9608)
I haven’t played WvW (or GW2) for quite a while
With the imminent arrival of the new feature pack I decided to give it a look, I’m sure I won’t be the only one returning.But if you want any hope of keeping these players though, you’re going to have to do something about balance.
The games so full of condi, its just, uh, yuk.
This has been a complaint for months now and they make condis even stronger. this is part of the reason why the rewards are the least of what WvW needs.
(edited by morrolan.9608)
I’m just putting out this small thought.
Note that I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly way back when we had the polls for QoL improvements and rewards over matchmaking, nightcap etc. one of the arguments that the devs put out there was that these QoL changes could be implemented easily and quickly…and that was only how long ago? (Seriously I don’t know anymore. Someone tell me when we had this poll >.<)While I really do appreciate the increased rewards, I’m just sitting here wondering how long we’d actually have to wait for some real changes to this gamemode, like a fix for nightcap, a real comeback mechanic and all the things we’ve been craving for since almost 5 years now.
Because these small (and yes I do call this implementation small) additions now, while highly appreciated, have been far from “fast”
Yep spot on, they did say that 18 months ago or so. Then they take at least 9 months to implement new rewards. So much for quick fixes.
Yak’s Bend is among the highest worlds in terms of play hours and ranks gained, which is the primary metric we use to determine which worlds we lock each week.
Yak’s Bend has nowhere near the population that BG is fielding 24/7 right now and has for many weeks so I am not sure how your statement makes any logical sense.
Being locked right now, before the next update is a horrid thing to do.
Undo the Beta linkings – let the servers “play their way” again.
Come play on all three servers and then tell me that YB should be locked.
Didn’t YB just win T1?
Quick transfer to BG first now, ask question later
And then get stuck in queue, you know all the hibernating bg players will come back
A thought occurred to me … since I play both Edge of the Mists and The Mist War … does all of this only apply to The Mist War, or does it apply to Edge of the Mists also?
Skirmishes are only part of The Mist War and not part of EoTM. Because of that pips cannot be earned while in EoTM. However, vendors for both the backpack and skirmish rewards will be in EoTM in case of queues.
EOTM will be dead come Tuesday. Pretty unfortunate.
Sounds good to me, it can be what it was meant to be an overflow map.
These forums make me facepalm so very, very hard.
We get exciting news: people have been asking for a scoring change, a rewards update and an improved UI in WvW for ages now. And hey, they’re finally coming! And what’s our response? A thread full of complaints. Do you now see why Reddit is the go-to place for the devs over these forums? The toxicity is unbelievable.
Cause these changes are minor and nothing like what the mode needs to save it. Whats more theyve been working on these for the better part of a year when they should have taken maybe a month.
Yea unfortunately I just don’t think they have the resources to support all 3 game modes. They’ve obviously made a strategic decision to primarily focus on pvp & pve.
They’re not focussing on pvp any more. And they have the staff resources, look at the numbers that have been given over the years. They are just hideously inefficient.
iirc, most of the things added to <span class=‘FO_hovarable_search_text’><span class=‘FO_FirstWord’>WvW</span></span> since launch were things players wanted (or thought they wanted), and that includes the DBL itself.
I knew people wanted a new <span class=‘FO_hovarable_search_text’><span class=‘FO_FirstWord’>WvW</span></span> map, but people actually wanted an eotm map for <span class=‘FO_hovarable_search_text’><span class=‘FO_FirstWord’>WvW</span></span>??
No, the playerbase specifically stated that EotM was the most wrong way to do a <span class=‘FO_hovarable_search_text’><span class=‘FO_FirstWord’>WvW</span></span> map that could possibly be conceived. As far as I know, we still haven’t had an explanation as to why the developers thought it was a good idea to have narrow walkways and cliffs everywhere. As such we’ll never know if they’ve got the right mindset to create maps that the <span class=‘FO_hovarable_search_text’><span class=‘FO_FirstWord’>WvW</span></span> players will like.
They don’t listen, they never have by and large. They communicate stuff but ignore ost feedback.
Oh they do listen to our complaints and do exactly the opposite of what we suggest. Ghost teef exploiting? Lets buff them until a pver solos a raid boss, then it gets nerfed. Stuff like that.
OK they may listen but they don’t understand.
iirc, most of the things added to WvW since launch were things players wanted (or thought they wanted), and that includes the DBL itself.
I knew people wanted a new WvW map, but people actually wanted an eotm map for WvW??
No, the playerbase specifically stated that EotM was the most wrong way to do a WvW map that could possibly be conceived. As far as I know, we still haven’t had an explanation as to why the developers thought it was a good idea to have narrow walkways and cliffs everywhere. As such we’ll never know if they’ve got the right mindset to create maps that the WvW players will like.
They don’t listen, they never have by and large. They communicate stuff but ignore ost feedback.
BG and JQ seem down in population compared to old school T1 populations, and frankly that’s a good thing, because no one wants to super stack to take on servers like that anymore.
Population is down across all servers, a sign that what anet are doing is not working overall.
I think WvW would be fine as long as we can spread out the active and skilled guilds evenly across different servers so that there will always be competitive fights around.
Isn’t this what Anet has been trying to do and it isn’t working.
Just wondering what type of big changes are you expecting?
Oh I dunno perhaps the revamp at a fundamental level that WvW needs.
Servers thinking they’re so important to be in T1 is why we have had servers paying for stacking for years. Lowering the threshold wouldn’t cause an imbalance, it’s eventually brings the top servers down more in line with the general level of population of the rest of the servers. “We must have sufficient populations to fill the maps!” and the other servers shouldn’t? Maybe try and wake your sleeping population.
Its not about servers thinking they should be in T1 its about having a sustainable population that doesn’t rely on 1 or 2 guilds which then burn out. Bringing the population down across the board just exacerbates these issues and leads to more burnout across the board. This is 1 thing that anet have never gotten.
Cloudfly is just taking a break. He’s coming back soon last time I talked.
From what I understand he’s moved servers to SOR.
What’s happened to JQ? They gained 300+ transfers a few weeks ago and are currently losing to YB ?
Cloudfly left, he was carrying their off hours much like DK used to for YB.
This is the idea ANet worked on for half a year and then abandoned. What makes anyone think they would go back and try again?
Because the state of the mode is so bad that it needs a revamp at a fundamental level.
anet just needs to call up zenimax and ask to borrow their PVP set up for ESO. minus the sneaking bit.
Then why aren’t you playing it?
No to OP. Just no.
This has been proposed over and over, only to be debunked. And the devs step in and confirm its not a workable solution.
They have never said it wasn’t workable.
I full endorse Xushins proposal
i.e. Forget what exists and make a new system. That’s how development goes with Guild Wars 2, if you hadn’t noticed.
Development by accretion its a clear philosophy from anet and a poor one. There’s a good extra credits episode on it.
(edited by morrolan.9608)
If they incentivize winning it just encourages stacking, which has been a problem since day 1 with Titan Alliance even though there were no rewards whatsoever back then, not even the paltry bonus chests each week. Or how BG stacked every tournament. Or how Mag is the dominant KDR server to the point where they complain about BG doing nothing but running from them and tank to get out of T1.
There’s more to incentivizing the mode than just rewards.
Like others have already stated here, the defensive tools available are miserable and oppressive (also keep in mind they’ve been nerfed down significantly from their release). Almost in their entirety they are so unbelievably poor in concept that I almost think that the dev’s were actually aiming for the troll factor.
“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
The current WvW devs have absolutely no idea how to develop the mode, there is no expertise in large scale pvp at anet whatsoever.
Many of these points have been identified many times over many many posts on this forum. But they remain as valid as ever because;
. A R E N A N E T . N E V E R . D O E S . A N Y T H I N G . A B O U T . T H E M .
Because they have only a couple of people working on WvW, its essentially in maintenance mode at this point.
I’ve been saying this for a while because it was commented on by ANet programmers years ago, but server lag is pretty much entirely caused by effect and ability spamming (especially passive boons and condis) in ZvZ scenarios.
When we see cuts to mass condi application, mass boon application, and extended passives (which often apply these), the server lag issues will be mostly fixed.
Yet again, the problems lie in profession design.
Yes I’ve been saying it for years yet they continue to bring in new boons and conditions. The right hand of anet doesn’t know what the left is doing.
Cloud Fly – The Lord Savior and God Emperor of JQ
Except he’s not retired.
declining? lol good joke, it is DEAD already. DEAD.
it has diededed even before HoT.
Er epi was strong a few months ago before they nerfed it. Well after HOT.
They said they wanted to remove the burst sigils while also reducing sustain.
yet they don’t reduce condi burst from abilities.
Everything was powercreeped to all hell, everything needs nerfs this is good for the game
Not everything was nerfed, condi was by and large not nerfed, its already clear this is forcing the game more into a condi meta after only a few hours.
I like to play Condi and Power builds. But I also think Condi is OP, because I have fun with both builds. I don’t want to make it so that one build is OP but that both have a reason to exist in all game aspects. I like to play a power Thief or Ele but Necro I like to play Condi. But I don’t want to be forced to play my Ele and Thief as Condi to be allowed in Raids or so or to change my Necro to power. I think there would have been better ways to create some sort of balance between this builds.
Good sentiment but unfortunately, the game has never worked that way ever. There is clearly not objective at Anet to make equivalently performing builds. Therefore, it makes no sense to lament something that never was.
Let me get this straight you’re saying anet don’t want class balance. Well that would explain a few things if true but I highly doubt that it is true.
My thought, what a stupid change.
Its simply a lazy change, they needed to keep the buff but move the proc to something else apart from movement. But having said that who the hell cares about having to wiggle? Why even do anet care?
this game so ez :p
BG is leading the matchup what the hell are you boasting about, coming 2nd?
Doesn’t help that JQ (especially during sea/eu) is the most boring server to fight. They take a map blob during off prime hours and sneak attack kitten because they constantly wipe vs smaller numbers.
They WP around until they find something unguarded, throw down 3+ shield gen’s, 5 sup cata’s, and sometimes a couple sup ac’s. If they are spotted and killed they hop to a bl to sneak something else. The only time their pug blob will fight open field is if they have at least triple the numbers and even then they try and pull you into their siege or just throw down ac’s.
Yep this is Cloudfly’s tactic to a tee. Its all he does. The game will be better off when he/they quit just like DK from YB.
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I don’t think Maguuma has anyone during OCX or SEA times. Most of their population is in NA Prime. Look at their income evolution during those times in their match right now.
SoX runs in ocx but only 3 nights a week now.
Welcome to what WvW has been going through since forever.
Jamezay from Choo
Indo from TW
Jed from SF
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