Guild Wars 2

Celtic Lady.3729:

Why do people do the whole maize balm farm, anyway? What are they all hoping they’ll get from it?

An Oontz necklace of the cat apparently… :P

Don’t know if it’s been asked or not, but I see the topic come up every so often.
What was the main reason for WvW gear being unsalvagable? What it for an economic reason? Or mechanical?

As it is its fairly easy to get, so I could see having a large influx of ecto because of it. Also having to rebuy runes could be part of the reason. But otherwise it doesn’t make much sense. Instead of being able to salvage directly, what about being able to be forged?

Yeah I run the condi build but use rabid instead, and well of darkness, suffering and blood is power. The blind and vulnerability are very useful IMO. I find it awesome for defending with a small group or solo. However it the bosses its not as effective with so many people, but still not useless. For the bosses ill switch out blood is power for signet of undeath to help rez those downed.

Op

Yeah it can be irritating, but there are some solutions. Bigger bags, extra bag slots, extra bank tabs, and extra material storage.
Also:
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Permanent_Bank_Access_Contract
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Permanent_Black_Lion_Merchant_Contract

I agree that some things should be in the wallet, and Im sure we will get that at some point, but for now there isn’t much we can do about it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tolerance is out of fashion.

I personally don’t believe in tolerance. Of course I tend to view everything in black and white. So tolerance to me is more akin to compromise, which really isn’t a good thing. (In some situations)

But to address the point of the conversation.
Now no fear in running dungeons. At least on my part. Amd any joining my groups also have nothing to fear. If someone gets kicked in my party, i tend to kick the one who kicked, or leave. Not dealing with that sort of nonsense.

Test.8734:

Actually, the only reason why “all new content” works like that is because players are willing to accept shallow content and play it regardless. The Silverwastes is the perfect example of this – it’s basically a non stop grind with a bit of eye candy, and nothing else. An incredibly lazy area when compared to any given zone seen on the original release of GW2, but filled with players because it has what can basically be summed up as a world boss that can be repeated many times per day.

If players actually demanded good, deep content, MMOs wouldn’t be basically big grinds. If players actually demanded gaming designers to be honest, we wouldn’t receive the lies they try to feed us. But as long as people are willing to settle for less, less is the best we will get.

You call this zone shallow and lazy. And that players are willing to accept that. Thus implying that the parties themselves have a low standard for the quality of content that is released. You then go on to say that that if players demanded good deep content, again implying that the players have settled for second rate or a lower standard, than that will be the best it will ever get.

You also once again accuse anet of lying, which you have yet to prove, nor answer any of the questions ive asked to show that they have lied.

I for one love Silverwastes, I dont see it as a grind, low quality, shallow or lazy. I find it to be very engaging, exciting, and filled with all sorts of fun things that make this one of the best zones in the game.

For whatever reason you’ve decided to hate anet, hate the game, and felt it necessary to criticize anything and everything they do. You of course are entitled to your opinion, but please stop trying to push your negative Nancy perceptive on the rest of us.

eithinan.9841:

I also like how messed up this place is where no one is calling on anet to clean up these toxic players. Kinda like suggesting to people to just roll over and take it because the police wont do anything. If anet gets screen shots of abusive actions and words they really need to respond to it if there is proof.

Aside from Taking action on accounts, and they do, what else is Anet supposed to do?
No one is saying roll over and let it slide. Almost everyone here, and Anets response to such things, is to report them using the in game reporting system.

So should we demand bans/suspensions for those people? To what end? Anet is already going to do that when they take action. They don’t need input or encouragement from us to spur them to do what they already are going to do. So making demands to do what is already their policy to do, after they do their investigation doesn’t really make much sense.

forum bug fix…

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

I really do hope no one applies your standards to you in life, because they’re massively unfair.

Sorry, but using evidence to believe in things as opposed to believing in things based merely on hearsay is rather common in my life and in yours, it’s what we call “science”.

The lie won’t go away, no matter how often you try to ignore it. ArenaNet knew they were lying when they made a Manifesto with the opposite of what they had in the game.

You still haven’t answered my questions….

Yeah I love my cleric healing tank guardian. But I only really run it in WvW. But when 2 of us wipe a group of 5, then take down 5 of a 7 man group right afterward before getting killed ourselves is just kind of awesome.

I can see how it could be useful in FotM, especially the higher levels.
But what about not being able to hold “aggro”? Which is one of the many reasons why a traditional trinity won’t work in GW2 unless combat itself was changed.
Is there a way you are able to compensate for that?

Siphaed.9235:

Randulf.7614:

Report, block and move on. If it was genuinely an accident, then it is one of those things – certainly nothing of significance.

It’s an online video game where this is rampant sadly- such behaviour isn’t worth acknowledging or dignifying.

Andred.1087:

You can’t stop jerks from being jerks. Especially on the Internet. Forget about those losers and move on.

They’re absolutely worth acknowledging. They’re toxic vile that is filling up the community and must be pointed out to be taken care of and removed from the community. Ignoring them or excusing it as “just the internet” only gives the impression that their behavior is tolerated and is allowed to continue.

There is a reason why people punish a dog for peeing on the carpet and eventually dogs learn not to. Dogs that just do not learn are either put outside or taken to the pound (both being a metaphor for being banned).

While that theory does make sense, it doesn’t take into account that acknowledging such behavior also encourages more. If they are reported and blocked, there isn’t much else you can do.

When dealing with my son. When he starts throwing a fit, he gets punished (reported) If he still continues to throw a fit, he gets ignored (blocked). The longer he throws a fit and I continue acknowledge it, it gives his fit validation. He then thinks that if he wants something, or wants my attention, all he needs to do is throw a fit. Even if it results in a punishment at the start.

Please don’t get the idea that I don’t pay attention to my son. I play with him often, and spend as much time as I can with him. But I WILL NOT put up with him being a kitten head.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

pdavis.8031:

I know Michael already does this on a much smaller level. As shown in this thread, and the GM proheals thread, but something a bit more would go along way in the eyes of the players.

Oh does he? I’d love to see this as a quarterly blog feature. “This week in GM Proheal’s Tyria!”

Michael Henninger.7451:

I investigated this last night and the claims are false. I found the person that was placing siege and terminated that account.

Also, remember that false reporting can lead to a suspension or termination of your account.

Michael Henninger.7451

Gus suspended the account. I believe it was for two weeks. They were caught placing irrelevant siege to block placement of legitimate siege. We also saw their placement of 50 or so siege as well as ‘stacking’ interact objects (plates of food, for example).

If they violate again the accounts held by them will be terminated.

Michael Henninger.7451:

Have a bowl of facts:

I was there for three hours, cleared that guild, found the real person who placed the siege, and yes; placed one suspension for abuse of the reporting system.

Yes he does. So there is already a precedence for such things, but something more to reassure players that these things are taken seriously and not tolerated. Which is one of the biggest complaints in WvW, that players are doing these things and it doesn’t seem that anything is being done.

I would totally suscribe to that blog!

Nonoka.7028:

So my gf and I were exploring bloodtide Coast and Doing the “Vermin-Heart”. There we met some naked people farming candycornelementals with maize balm, I have Sometimes heard of it, but never seen it, and Im playing since Beta.

Now, we did hit a few of the candycorns and we did pick up the tot-bags, and opened them. My gf started about two or three weeks ago with gw2, and she was surprised that there were holiday related items. She opened the bags happily, and to my surprise, she did get Oontz (or whatever its called) accesory, which gives You the black Aura (poly Luminescent undulating refractor Black). Being used to ping rare drops to teammates from us playing gw1 a few weeks ago together with our friends, she basically automatically pinged her Oontz necklace of the cat. And then, the kittenstorm started, a lot of curse words that would be censored to ‘Kitten’ in the forum were written on the map Chat and whispered to her, but Hey , who cares. I dropped two precursors and one preserved bee queen, pinged them, and got mostly gz messages, and some kitten you s. However, the Thing is, the guy that threw the maize balm keeps whispering and writing to her that "Its our rule that ten percent of all drops go to me, because I bought the balm, but we were basically just passing by, and she got Lucky.
My Question now Is not “what can we do” , the reports are sent and blocks are given and screenshots kept for Future reference, but rather: what do You guys think about people like this, and his behaviour?

Yup. Block report and move on.

However, it may be that groups rule to share 10% of the loot (or loots value) but if you are not a part of that agreement, had no knowledge of that agreement, and didn’t agree to the terms of the agreement (through ignorance that such an agreement even existed), they don’t really have any right to expect anything from you, nor do you have any obligation to give anything to them.

I guess in the end they were just kittens. If they keep harassing you about it, don’t respond, just report. Those types of people aren’t really worth your time.

Good luck and grats on the drop!!

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

pdavis.8031:

Michael:

Would it be possible, or appropriate, to perodically post statics of people being actioned without revealing names, account info, or anything.

Something like:
Last month
22 people were warned about being abusive in chat.
37 people were suspended for disrupting game play
13 people were banned for using thirdy party cheat programs.
etc.

Something like this would go a long way to show that something is being done about such people. As it is now, we hear so little and see even less in game to even consider that the GMs are doing something. Which leads to many many people believe that such behavior is acceptable because as those people were saying “Anet doesn’t do anything so why does it matter?”

Just a thought….

Yes, anything that ANet can do to let us know that action is taken regularly would be helpful. Obviously, doubters are still gonna doubt, but there are many players who would be more likely to spend the time needed to make a verifiable report, if they knew that their actions are likely to result in action…instead of inaction.

I’m sure you guys do internal metrics regularly, since that’s how you know if your policies are effective, so maybe some of that could be “cleaned up” for the public.

I know Michael already does this on a much smaller level. As shown in this thread, and the GM proheals thread, but something a bit more would go along way in the eyes of the players.

Atistheso.4657:

Errant.1509:

Michael Henninger.7451:

I investigated this last night and the claims are false. I found the person that was placing siege and terminated that account.

Also, remember that false reporting can lead to a suspension or termination of your account.

Terminating accounts for trolling siege seems really extreme unless it’s massively recidivistic offender O___O

An account termination is exactly what they deserve. We are not talking about one time trolling but large scale griefing that is affecting all the wvw players on the server. People are terminated for selling gold or using macros, I dont see how this is less of an offense.

However I would be very shocked if anyone got suspended or terminated for false reporting over what happened in TC bl yesterday. I am positive that there was more than 1 person involved in the griefing and I am just one of the many witnesses.

If anything those who were actioned for false reporting, were probably reporting members of the same guild that was doing this, but they themselves were not involved. So it went out in map chat that “XYZ guild is seige trolling report them!”
So people saw members of XYZ guild and just reported while not being sure if those players were the ones actually seige trolling.

Which of course would be an abuse of the reporting system, and should be actioned accordingly.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ranael.6423:

Sorry but when you raise a reputation in WoW to get a mini that you “hunt” by doing the same daily quest everyday for more than a month you call it a farm but doing so in GW2 you call it a grind…
Did you grind or hunt Mawdrey? Did you grind or hunt your Ascended gear?

Anyway you will reject that comment saying I just debate the semantic.

Mawdrey was a massive grind…. Are you saying otherwise? Good luck with Foxfires post nerf. Of course I bought half of mine on the TP as it’s nearly impossible to gather them on your own due to RNG.

I think what they are referring to is that ones wasn’t considered a grind, because they enjoyed doing it, and therefore saw it as a hunt. Whereas someone who didn’t like doing it, but did it anyway it was a grind.

Again going back to if you are enjoying whatever you are doing, it’s not really a grind. And if you don’t like it, but do it anyway, then it’s going to be a grind.

Michael:

Would it be possible, or appropriate, to perodically post statics of people being actioned without revealing names, account info, or anything.

Something like:
Last month
22 people were warned about being abusive in chat.
37 people were suspended for disrupting game play
13 people were banned for using thirdy party cheat programs.
etc.

Something like this would go a long way to show that something is being done about such people. As it is now, we hear so little and see even less in game to even consider that the GMs are doing something. Which leads to many many people believe that such behavior is acceptable because as those people were saying “Anet doesn’t do anything so why does it matter?”

Just a thought….

Mrbig.8019:

Mostly because the game is dead.

The game is dead?
Last I checked it was very much alive and vibrant with lots of people doing lots of things…maybe it’s just me.

Wetpaw.3487:

Still need Gift of Battle?

I would assume so. However it is possible to obtain the gift of battle without doing much in WvW. I think you need to be level 14, and have 500 badges of honor. Badges of honor come with AP chests, thats how I got most of mine.

But even the gift of battle makes sense. With map completion the problem was it was near impossible even for a small group to be able to get anything, and the only other option was to wait until you switched colors. On smaller populated servers, joining a zerg was just as difficult if there wasnt enough people to get a zerg going.

TooBz.3065:

pdavis.8031:

So what happens to those who have slogged through WvW, have gotten ganked on a regualar basis trying to do the map completion?

I understand we got our rewards for doing so, but are those people just going be ignored?

Everyone who has run in WvW has gotten ganked from time to time. It happens.

True, but the difference is as a map completer, one is purposely avoiding anyone and anything and doing whatever they can NOT to engage in combat and being jumped by 2+ people. The other is actively participating in WvW and acting as either a scout, dolyak escort, or trying to meet up with the zerg at the other side of the map.

One is an active combatant, the other a “tourist”.

Ranael.6423:

The grind in this game is the “end content” for hardcore gamers… not hardcore in the meaning they are good but rather that they spend a lot of time on the game (people able to spend more than 5 hours per day in this game are not the majority).
The core design of the game was from the beginning that everybody can access to everything, whatever their dedication. Basically if you can play 5 hours per week you are still able to join every game activity. Now if you want to spend more time the devs have to give you something to do and to get. That is where grind appear. They could choose as other games to make the old content obsolete regularly but no they decided on adding things slowly so that casual gamers are not lost when they log in and all their effort in the past are still meaningful.
But in the meantime they also spread the rewards everywhere in the game so that by doing any activity you are able to get more or less the same things… more or less as there are some specific tasks leading to specific rewards.

Now since ascended was the focus of the discussion in between quote battles, don’t forget that this tier was presented as something to have to do while you’re hitting the legendary wall. In other words, if you are not lucky enough or too poor to get a precursor but still have plenty of materials you have a goal to reach. They also made a clever thing which is daily craft meaning that rich player will want to pay to get their item faster … making other players not interested in BiS richer and throwing money through TP taxes.
The other successful thing they did is to make people want absolutely these items while not making them more powerful (or quasi useless in sub 80 zones). In fact it is always the case when something is added in the game : people want it more than anything. The good thing compared to other MMO is that this new thing is far from mandatory… so hardcore player have something to do now while the others set their own long term goal.

Every MMO has grind but GW2 is clever enough to make different grind almost equivalent in term of gold while competing for an extra (under RNG or not). Look at the situation of silk (because that was one of the last complain) : You have literally plenty of source in the game (zone as DT or SW, dungeon, WvW, PvP reward track, World boss, champ train, JP…) simply because reward are unified under the “masterwork rarity or better” loots. You may argue the reward flow is different but I’d answer that profitability and fun are not synonyms. And even in that case as I said before there are also places in the game where you can drop ascended chests, you are free to join them as well.

So to the question where does grind start I’d answer : “when people prefer to be efficient and do activities they don’t enjoy, only to possess something they think they absolutely need.”

I couldn’t have said it better!

Thats the point I’ve been trying to make this whole time. Thank you.

So what happens to those who have slogged through WvW, have gotten ganked on a regualar basis trying to do the map completion?

I understand we got our rewards for doing so, but are those people just going be ignored?

Atherakhia.4086:

Michael Henninger.7451:

I investigated this last night and the claims are false. I found the person that was placing siege and terminated that account.

Also, remember that false reporting can lead to a suspension or termination of your account.

I’m confused…

The claims were false, yet you found someone doing it and banned them?

Wouldn’t that make the claims true…?

I think he was referring to the claims that Anet won’t do anything about it….

Also I have seen flame rams placed in places not on a gate that were used for defense and blocking a “choke point”. I belive such placements can be legitimate and doesn’t mean that they are trolling. But thats not always the case.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/changes-to-world-completion/

The date on this says marzo 13, 2015.
Which is Spanish for March, but being an english forum this should read March in English. Thanks!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Removal-Of-WvW-Map-Completion-In-Patch/first#post4874308

They are already talking about it the WvW forums. Please lets move the discussion there, as it fits more in the WvW forums than here.

Thanks!

Love rabid!

Sure it’s not exactly “meta”, but I never cared for the meta anyway.
It is useful for condition builds, but thats about it.

Play around with it and try it out for yourself. If you like it, great! If not, well you can always sell it to a vendor or delete it.

What about adding in 2 party content?

Something that needs to be done with 2 parties doing 2 disctincly different things in the same instance?

For example. A dungeon with 2 seperate paths, and a party in each path. But party A cannot progress beyond a certain point until party B completes a certain activity (i.e. puzzle, boss, etc.).
So party A has to defend their position until party B completes it’s task. If party B fails, Party A has to do a new task to allow them to continue.

Just a random idea…not sure exactly how it would play out, but it could be fun.

RoRo.8270:

Here is what matters. Has anyone actually been banned for afking in PvP?

I don’t know. And honestly its difficult to say whether or not someone has been banned or suspended.

While they may in your friends list, so you can see if the are/were online, one can’t tell if they’ve just not logged on for a few days, or been suspended. Or if they just stopped playing for a period of time, or were actually banned.

My guess is that action has been taken on accounts, more often in the form of a warning at first, which tends to cause players to stop doing such things.

kuroko:

So what are your thoughts on what the rules of conduct clearly stating that match manipulation or disruption by not participating is not allowed?

Kuroko.6239:

We’re digging B O Y Z

And what pray are we digging?

By pointing out the rules of conduct, and pointing out that intentially AFKing in order to disrupt, or “fix” a match is against the same rules?

Of course stepping away for a moment is one thing, doing it intentially is something else.

Lishtenbird.2814:

L2R:

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

22. While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

Kuroko:
As taken directly from the Rule of Conduct.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Although it has been said by the devs that AFKing to manipulate a match IS against the ToS and a reportable offense.

So when people are reporting for botting, thats really the only report option that comes close. And have been encouraged by Anet to use it when appropriate.

But if they feel that you are intentially going AFK in order to make the match 4v5 so the other team has a clear advantage they can certainly report you for that. However, all reports are reviewed by GM before any action is taken. So if they do report, the GM finds that you were only AFK for a few minutes, but not really long enough to have a huge impact on the outcome of the match, then they won’t do anything.

BTW, I am still waiting for answers, and evidence for these questions…

Please answer the following questions in no more than a single sentence, and please provide at least 1 link to confirm your answer.

Are there enemies in the game that do not provide the regular materials (or the means to aquire said materials) needed to craft Ascended armor of any weight? (excluding World Bosses and world boss “adds”)

How many methods are there for aquiring ascended crafting materials? (i.e. Bloodstone dust, Empyreal fragments, dragonite ore)

Which game mode (i.e. open world PvE, dungeons, WvW, PvP, EotM, etc.) does not provide the materials (ascended or otherwise) needed to craft ascended armor?

Which game mode do I have no choice but to participate in in order to craft ascended armor? (not counting crafting, as it’s kind of a key component?)

Which game mode does not provide any in-game money?

Which activities in the game do not provide any in-game money?

Am I barred from crafting ascended armor if I choose not to participate in any particular game mode at any time?

Am I required to participate in any particular game mode, do specific events, or kill specific enemies in order to craft ascended?

Am I required (having no choice) to do anything in-game repeatedly without variation in order to craft ascended armor? (i.e. kill specific enemies, do specific events, etc.)

Note: Please. We all know that this game, as well as any other MMO in the history of MMOs does have a repetitive nature. Repeating content is VERY different from grinding. The former is simply because there is only so much one can do. The latter is being stuck in a single event chain, or area with no option to leave because there is no other way to progress. And progression in this context refers to crafting ascended armor, and aquiring materials.

Ohoni:

Thats not entirely accurate. (referring to the price and willingness to pay)
You seem to be leaving out willingness to sell. So player A farms a bunch of silk to sell, and player B wants to buy it. It’s up to the seller alone to set the price. So even if anet increases supply or reduces demand, are players going to be willing to sell for less than what it is currently? Probably not. I know I wouldn’t. But if player B wants to buy for cheaper, he needs to find someone willing to sell at his asking price, otherwise pay what the seller Asks.

Are farmers going to ask Anet to change their farms so that they can sell at a lower rate? Are those who just sell a bit here and there going to be content that they are making less money?

You can’t look at one side of the TP and say that lower prices benefit everyone. It doesn’t quite work that way. The lower the buying price means lower the selling price which means that less gold is being sunk per transaction which means more gold in game which means prices begin to inflate and increase because more people have more money to spend which then leads to gold having less spending power (i.e. losing value). Which is not healthy for the game in general.

Bernie.8674:

pdavis.8031:

Bernie.8674:

And you gathered the requisite silk well after the change as well? Without any grinding?

Most of it yeah. Bought what I could when I could, but gathered a very large portion of it just playing and doing what I wanted to.

So you bought what you could using whatever money you gathered exclusively on your new character before you were expected to dump 80 gold on traits and 300 gold on a commander tag, right?

pdavis.8031:

For my second set though, I choose to do Silverwastes. Not only because it’s an awesome for silk gathering, but I really do enjoy the event. I love organizing the map, taxiing people in, and collecting massive amounts of loot and monies. Lots of rares available which I toss in the forge. I’ve gotten quite a few exotics, and an ascended chest from this. It’s awesome! For me the extra silk is a nice side effect for doing what I enjoy. If I felt that I needed to do Silverwastes in order to get any silk at all, then it would become a grind. As it is, if I am having fun, and collecting along the way, it’s a win.

And for your second set you chose to grind. If map hopping through Silverwastes via megaserver were an immersive experience for me I probably wouldn’t mind doing it either. Unfortunately after my first three hours in there, it became an absolute borefest.

No one is disputing that you can get ascended gear after the change. The dispute is over whether you have to grind for it or not. “Most” of it wasn’t grinded. None of mine is grinded either. After my next piece I’ll be able to claim that “most” of my set isn’t grinded. Grinding the rest of the set is still going to be grinding. I’m doing mine without grind, and I’m only half way through after 10 months. Why? Because I enjoy variety. I don’t want to treat a game like a stint on the assembly line.

The character in question was grandfathered in through the changes to the trait system. I already had all the traits. Same with my current character I’m working on ascended for. Also never really card to have a tag, although i recently been considering it, but not it a hurry to do so.

As far as the time comment, do you need ascended gear to have fun? Or be able to access certain content? High level fractals yes, but that’s a very small portion of the game. So you can enkpy 99.999% of what gold wars 2 has to offer.

Bernie.8674:

If I could dump the million karma into silk the way I can into obsidian shards we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

You can actually. I occassionaly use the karma conversion method, using Danu (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Danu) in sparkfly fen, and the rescuer’s mantle. Buy with karma, drop in MF, salvage, profit.

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf:
Did Anet go against their manifesto by adding a new tier of gear that one can aquire the materials to craft just by playing the game?
Not in the slightest.

As far as evidence? I haven’t seen any yet. Everything said is that it takes a lot of materials/time. I am not denying that. Yes it takes a lot of materials, yes it takes a lot of time.

Let me use another example from EQ.
I wanted to get a specific item from my paladin trainer. In order to get that particular item I had to go to the 1 place in the entire game where the enemies that dropped the items needed to trade to get that item were. But those enemies ONLY spawn at night. And then only a few of them. They had a 5% chance to drop the collection item. So I had to go to a specific place, at a specific time and kill a specific enemy in order to get the items I needed.

Is there anything remotely like that in GW2? NOT. AT. ALL.

Anet defined what they meant by grind. Going by their definition, crafting ascended does not fit their definition.

Simple put, their definition of grind does not line up with general players definition of grind.

That’s why they see the game as non grindy whereas many players do.

This is not really an issue of perception though, because people aren’t mad about the semantic definition of grind.

They are saying call it what you want but this game feels grindy. Anet should be more concerned that a lot of people would call the game super grindy, than the defintion of grind.

Thats probably the most reasonable argument in this thread in recent memory.

It’s the same reason that Apple can claim that their devices are “virus free” and “cannot get viruses”. They have a VERY specific and narrow definition of what a virus is. Anything else (i.e. malware, trojans, spyware, adware, rootkits, etc.) doesn’t meet their definition, thus it’s not a virus.

However, even if most people feel that it is a grind to get ascended, I hope to at least shed some light on the fact that one can obtain ascended gear without being forced to do certain content.

Aidenwolf:
Did Anet go against their manifesto by adding a new tier of gear that one can aquire the materials to craft just by playing the game?
Not in the slightest.

As far as evidence? I haven’t seen any yet. Everything said is that it takes a lot of materials/time. I am not denying that. Yes it takes a lot of materials, yes it takes a lot of time.

Let me use another example from EQ.
I wanted to get a specific item from my paladin trainer. In order to get that particular item I had to go to the 1 place in the entire game where the enemies that dropped the items needed to trade to get that item were. But those enemies ONLY spawn at night. And then only a few of them. They had a 5% chance to drop the collection item. So I had to go to a specific place, at a specific time and kill a specific enemy in order to get the items I needed.

Is there anything remotely like that in GW2? NOT. AT. ALL.

Anet defined what they meant by grind. Going by their definition, crafting ascended does not fit their definition.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Shiyo.3578:

Page 18, john still not has answered why damask is still 100 bolts of silk instead of 50 when silk is so expensive compared to other t5 mats and every other ascended item is only 50.

Or why a bolt of silk requires 3 scraps to make.

Fixed for you.

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Celtic Lady.3729:

That’s the thing with grind discussions. ArenaNet has a very narrow definition of grind that allows them to make their claims. But this gets lost in translation because the average MMO player doesn’t relegate the definition of grind to simply “leveling up” or “getting top gear.” Most people consider the game as a whole and when you do that, there is a lot of grindy stuff in GW2, so the game’s claim seems outrageously untrue to most people coming into the discussion.

And thats what I am trying to change. It’s a matter of perception. Although there are those who are claiming that you are forced to do specific things within the game in order to get BiS gear, I am contending that that isn’t true. And thus isn’t a grind, and thus Anet didn’t “lie” when they said they don’t want player to grind.

For whatever reason you’re missing the entire point here. As Colin clarified in this very post BiS gear was meant to be easily accessible to everyone. That changed with ascended which is a monster grind. You yourself said you’ve worked 2 months on 1 piece of ascended, so at your pace, that’s a year for a set.

And? Am I forced to do certain content, or kill certain enemies, or play any particular game mode? Not in the slightest. Ascended is easily accessible. I can get all the materials playing whatever I want, doing whatever I want, in-game. Period. However, easily accessible does not mean quick to get. And thats where the disconnect is. Easily accessible means anyone and everyone can get it. Does it take long getting the stuff “naturally”? Of course, but thats not the issue. It still can be done without having to do anything special.

You’re coming around.

Not really. Time involved does not equal grind. If I feel I need to get it to be competitive in WvW, or to run high level fractals, or to be that much more effective in PvE, then sure, I can grind it out in a shorter amount of time. But that isn’t the point.

The main point that keeps getting brought up is Anet lied when they said no grind. And ascended “quickly” equals grind, thus Anet lied. Anyone can get ascended. No one is required to to anything special to get ascended, other than play the game. No one ever said that it was supposed to be a fast process. Anet certainly didn’t, and never implied that it was. So if I can get ascended equipment just by playing the game, how has Anet lied?

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Celtic Lady.3729:

That’s the thing with grind discussions. ArenaNet has a very narrow definition of grind that allows them to make their claims. But this gets lost in translation because the average MMO player doesn’t relegate the definition of grind to simply “leveling up” or “getting top gear.” Most people consider the game as a whole and when you do that, there is a lot of grindy stuff in GW2, so the game’s claim seems outrageously untrue to most people coming into the discussion.

And thats what I am trying to change. It’s a matter of perception. Although there are those who are claiming that you are forced to do specific things within the game in order to get BiS gear, I am contending that that isn’t true. And thus isn’t a grind, and thus Anet didn’t “lie” when they said they don’t want player to grind.

For whatever reason you’re missing the entire point here. As Colin clarified in this very post BiS gear was meant to be easily accessible to everyone. That changed with ascended which is a monster grind. You yourself said you’ve worked 2 months on 1 piece of ascended, so at your pace, that’s a year for a set.

And? Am I forced to do certain content, or kill certain enemies, or play any particular game mode? Not in the slightest. Ascended is easily accessible. I can get all the materials playing whatever I want, doing whatever I want, in-game. Period. However, easily accessible does not mean quick to get. And thats where the disconnect is. Easily accessible means anyone and everyone can get it. Does it take long getting the stuff “naturally”? Of course, but thats not the issue. It still can be done without having to do anything special.

Celtic Lady.3729:

That’s the thing with grind discussions. ArenaNet has a very narrow definition of grind that allows them to make their claims. But this gets lost in translation because the average MMO player doesn’t relegate the definition of grind to simply “leveling up” or “getting top gear.” Most people consider the game as a whole and when you do that, there is a lot of grindy stuff in GW2, so the game’s claim seems outrageously untrue to most people coming into the discussion.

And thats what I am trying to change. It’s a matter of perception. Although there are those who are claiming that you are forced to do specific things within the game in order to get BiS gear, I am contending that that isn’t true. And thus isn’t a grind, and thus Anet didn’t “lie” when they said they don’t want player to grind.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Yeah, if a player loves repeating content in the Silverwastes over and over again, then getting their silk for ascended will be fun. It’ll prolly still take a while, though, because I’m very skeptical of people claiming they can get all the silk they need in just a day or two of this.

Yeah, thats just not really possible. Unless thats all they do all day every day.

But again, what makes a grind a grind is what the particular player enjoys doing. If I like SW, than doing it a couple of times a day isnt’a grind. IF you don’t like SW then doing it at all will feel like a grind.

Bernie.8674:

pdavis.8031:

As an aside, I crafted my first ascended armor set well after the change, where the price was nearly what it is now. I am working on my second set with the current prices. I’ve never been particularly rich, but occassionally I’ll clear out my bank selling everything I don’t need for a bit of extra cash to buy what I do need. Which is yet another way to get the materials needed.

And you gathered the requisite silk well after the change as well? Without any grinding?

Most of it yeah. Bought what I could when I could, but gathered a very large portion of it just playing and doing what I wanted to.

For my second set though, I choose to do Silverwastes. Not only because it’s an awesome for silk gathering, but I really do enjoy the event. I love organizing the map, taxiing people in, and collecting massive amounts of loot and monies. Lots of rares available which I toss in the forge. I’ve gotten quite a few exotics, and an ascended chest from this. It’s awesome! For me the extra silk is a nice side effect for doing what I enjoy. If I felt that I needed to do Silverwastes in order to get any silk at all, then it would become a grind. As it is, if I am having fun, and collecting along the way, it’s a win.

Bernie.8674:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

What grind is there for ascendeds… in normal play you earn everything needed being bloodstone dust , emperyal faragments and dragonite ore, with skillpoints you get every 250k XP and some materials you can get from the TP and your dailies you have everything, not instant that’s true but you’ll get it with no real effort. only thing you’ll need to find is obsidian shards…

And all those mats you just mentioned just sit in my bank because I cannot gather silk fast enough to use up all those “rare” items you just mentioned. Even obsidian shards are easy. You just do the Balthazar event one time and spend your karma on them. It’s the silk that’s grindy. Those who say otherwise crafted their gear in the old days when the silk cost was 2/3 what it is now and silk could be bought on the TP for several copper rather than the 2+ silver that it costs now.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

So just buy a damask if you have 12 gold to spare and see when some obsidian shards drop in SW and take as much time as you want.

An ascended piece costs about 4 damask, not one. That’s 48 gold to spare, and that happens to be my entire bank account. I know you’re probably swimming in gold, but that’s because you don’t have to hoard all of your silk scraps. The 100 silk that you’re collecting every week is siphoning 2 gold a week from some new player who didn’t get to craft their ascended gear before it became grindy.

As an aside, I crafted my first ascended armor set well after the change, where the price was nearly what it is now. I am working on my second set with the current prices. I’ve never been particularly rich, but occassionally I’ll clear out my bank selling everything I don’t need for a bit of extra cash to buy what I do need. Which is yet another way to get the materials needed.

Bernie.8674:

pdavis.8031:

Ok test. Let me try this again.
Please answer the following questions in no more than a single sentence, and please provide at least 1 link to confirm your answer.

After I have recieved your answers, I’ll make my point then let you have the last word on the matter. As I don’t believe that either of us will see each others point of view. You’ll believe what you want, I’ll believe what I want, and at the end of the day, we’ll both go back to playing the game and enjoying ourselves.

Are there enemies in the game that do not provide the regular materials (or the means to aquire said materials) needed to craft Ascended armor of any weight? (excluding World Bosses and world boss “adds”)

How many methods are there for aquiring ascended crafting materials? (i.e. Bloodstone dust, Empyreal fragments, dragonite ore)

Which game mode (i.e. open world PvE, dungeons, WvW, PvP, EotM, etc.) does not provide the materials (ascended or otherwise) needed to craft ascended armor?

Which game mode do I have no choice but to participate in in order to craft ascended armor? (not counting crafting, as it’s kind of a key component?)

Which game mode does not provide any in-game money?

Which activities in the game do not provide any in-game money?

You’re asking the wrong questions. The one to ask is, which game mode provides 7200+ silk scraps in less than a year without any grinding? When I get the answer to that I’ll acknowledge that there is no need to grind for ascended gear.

pdavis.8031:

Am I barred from crafting ascended armor if I choose not to participate in any particular game mode at any time?

If you want to get your ascended armor sometime in the next couple of years, then yes.

pdavis.8031:

Am I required to participate in any particular game mode, do specific events, or kill specific enemies in order to craft ascended?

Am I required (having no choice) to do anything in-game repeatedly without variation in order to craft ascended armor? (i.e. kill specific enemies, do specific events, etc.)

Yes. You’re required to run champ trains, farm silverwastes, or WvW in order to get the champ bags required to generate 7200+ scraps of silk and/or collect the 172 gold required to buy all that silk.

So by setting a time limit on getting the materials needed to what makes it a grind.

I am not required to do champ trains, silverwastes, no WvW in order to get silk, or the gold needed. I can do a myriad of other in-game activities and generate gold and/or materials needed without ever doing any of those things.

No the grind that is percieved is entirely player generated. Anet has put in multiple ways to get the materials needed to craft ascended, and none of which requires me to repeat it any more than I want to.

No these aren’t the wrong questions. These are the right questions. Ones that the grindy crowd won’t answer to prove their point. These are the questions that need to be answered to determine whether or not there is an Anet imposed grind or not.

Ashen.2907:

pdavis.8031:

So the act of crafting itself is a grind?

I also stated on another question that crafting is exluded as it is needed to CRAFT ascended gear. If you are refusing to actually use the crafting mechanic because its “grindy” then yes there is no way you are going to be able to CRAFT ascended gear..

Exactly so.

Getting ascended gear is gated behind a grind, ergo there is a grind for character progression, BiS gear, in GW2.

Excluding a grind from consideration of whether or not grind is needed for progression specifically because it is needed for that progression is ludicrous.

But that begs the question, is crafting itself a grind? Can I go to a crafting station upon occasion, craft a few items, increase my crafting level a little bit, then go about my merry way? Absolutely. Do I need to spend hours at the crafting station crafting everything at once in order to level my crafting? Nope. Do I need to revist the crafting station every so often? Sure. But thats not a grind. Again, repeatable content doesn’t equal a grind.

It is “ludicrous” to assume that a single component in the process that needs to be revisted upon occassion can be considered a grind.

If this is the only argument that crafting ascended is indeed a grind, then I believe I have made my point, that crafting ascended is not grindy, and can be done through normal means of playing the game. It is a VERY weak argument that really doesn’t hold up at all.

Ashen.2907:

pdavis.8031:

Am I required (having no choice) to do anything in-game repeatedly without variation in order to craft ascended armor? (i.e. kill specific enemies, do specific events, etc.)

Yes you are.

You cannot craft ascended armor without engaging in a boring repetitive task….leveling your crafting skills and using the crafting system.

Sure gathering the mats can be done at your own pace while doing other things, but actually producing the end result requires, according to Anet’s definition of the word, a grind.

So the act of crafting itself is a grind?

I also stated on another question that crafting is exluded as it is needed to CRAFT ascended gear. If you are refusing to actually use the crafting mechanic because its “grindy” then yes there is no way you are going to be able to CRAFT ascended gear.

However, with crafting itself, there is also a bunch of variety. I don’t need to craft solely X amount of A and X amount of B. I can choose to do that, however, I can discover new recipes, craft some of Y, some of D and some of L if I wanted to, and still be able to level up my crafting.

Thats like saying its a grind to have to log in every day to get the login rewards, or that it is a grind to use WPs, or a grind to have to run across the map, or a grind to hit the 1 button when attacking. Thats just being intentially obtuse about it.

Welcome to the game!

First of all, killing mobs is only one way to level up. But trying to level up solely by killing mobs is going to take forever. Do hearts, do events, explore. You get more exp for doing events than anything else. For starters, try following the little compass thing in the corner of your screen. If you are still out leveled, try to explore a little bit, or try to find some events. They are marked on your map with big orange circles, and also a little pop up that says an event is nearby. Plus map completion. Doing all the hearts, finding all the waypoints, vistas, points of interest and skill points grants a large amount of exp plus some special rewards and items for completion.

You can start crafting right away if you want. However, you’re not going to get very far just gathering the mats. It can be done solely that way, but it does take much longer. Also get some gathering tools from a vendor. Gather all the materials you can along the way. Honestly I would start looking into ita bit later, when you have a bit more money, and a few more materials.

Character creation. None of those choice effects your game skills, traits, etc. But they do have some effect on the personal story (which starts at level 10) but not so much that it makes a huge difference. It’s mostly flavor.

Honestly I wouldn’t worry about trying to customize, or dye your gear just yet. As you are leveling you change gear so quickly with bigger and better things it’s almost not worth it. Most people just wait until level 80 to start doing that, as they get BiS gear and can change the look as they want without changing their actual gear around too much.

If you have any more questions please let us know!!!
Good luck!