Guild Wars 2

Yeah, we have a guildie who also does that. Just hangs out in HotM and asks for a gold. I don’t see it as any sort of violation, or “wrong” per say. But I have a lot of guild pride, and whens he’s repping us and doing that, it reflects on the guild IMO.

But I guess some people would rather do that then play the game, so whatever….

Asus has some great laptops for gaming. I have one that is about 6 years old, and it still runs GW2 fairly well. I can’t go highest graphics of course, but I do get medium/low settings, which I am ok with. Plus it does have a few upgrade options. (RAM, CPU, GPU)

If you are looking for a powerful gaming laptop ~$1500 USD is about the average price, although you might be able to find a deal somewhere.

Check out this one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NVV2B98/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1/176-8560944-6655261?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=02KYWY37ZSPGWXNW2W4K&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687502&pf_rd_i=B00NWE9RPA
It’s a great laptop, but it is spendy.

Ok test. Let me try this again.
Please answer the following questions in no more than a single sentence, and please provide at least 1 link to confirm your answer.

After I have recieved your answers, I’ll make my point then let you have the last word on the matter. As I don’t believe that either of us will see each others point of view. You’ll believe what you want, I’ll believe what I want, and at the end of the day, we’ll both go back to playing the game and enjoying ourselves.

Are there enemies in the game that do not provide the regular materials (or the means to aquire said materials) needed to craft Ascended armor of any weight? (excluding World Bosses and world boss “adds”)

How many methods are there for aquiring ascended crafting materials? (i.e. Bloodstone dust, Empyreal fragments, dragonite ore)

Which game mode (i.e. open world PvE, dungeons, WvW, PvP, EotM, etc.) does not provide the materials (ascended or otherwise) needed to craft ascended armor?

Which game mode do I have no choice but to participate in in order to craft ascended armor? (not counting crafting, as it’s kind of a key component?)

Which game mode does not provide any in-game money?

Which activities in the game do not provide any in-game money?

Am I barred from crafting ascended armor if I choose not to participate in any particular game mode at any time?

Am I required to participate in any particular game mode, do specific events, or kill specific enemies in order to craft ascended?

Am I required (having no choice) to do anything in-game repeatedly without variation in order to craft ascended armor? (i.e. kill specific enemies, do specific events, etc.)

Note: Please. We all know that this game, as well as any other MMO in the history of MMOs does have a repetitive nature. Repeating content is VERY different from grinding. The former is simply because there is only so much one can do. The latter is being stuck in a single event chain, or area with no option to leave because there is no other way to progress. And progression in this context refers to crafting ascended armor, and aquiring materials.

Test.8734:

pdavis.8031:

Ascended wasnt released at launch. That came much later.

Ascended was planned at launch. At least that’s what ArenaNet said following the huge backlash after ascended’s release. You can claim they were lying about that (too), but it’s what it is.

pdavis.8031:

Therefore Anet has stuck by what they said in the Manifesto. Even with the introduction of ascended.

Ignoring how that quote doesn’t make sense (the introduction of ascended goes completely against what they said in the Manifesto), ascended isn’t the only issue.

As Vayne mentioned earlier in this topic, ArenaNet’s exact words were, “We don’t want players to grind”. ArenaNet did not say, “We don’t want players to be forced to grind”. They did not say “We don’t want players to think there is a need to grind”.

No, their exact words were, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”.

And that is a lie. If it were true and they didn’t want players to grind, they wouldn’t have linked some of the greatest rewards in the game – legendaries – to grind. If they wanted, they could have made it impossible to grind, thus really fulfilling the idea that they don’t want players to grind because “no one finds it fun”. Yet they didn’t. Because they lied.

In fact, at the written clarification of the Manifesto, which I have linked a few posts ago, ArenaNet claims GW2 is not about “grinding for a future fun reward”. Yet that’s pretty much what the process to acquire a legendary is.

pdavis.8031:

Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascended gear?

Yes. Everywhere.

Do you know why? Because if you kill every enemy in the game in every map and do all events and all dungeons and everything once and exactly once… You still won’t have enough to make a full set of ascended gear. You need repetition in order to do it. You need to grind it. Or you simply won’t have it.

So ANY sort of repetition is considered grind. Gotcha

Also in the clarification Anet said that Legendaries were acceptable, in that they are cosmetic/prestige items and not required for BiS or for progression. This also has been pointed out several times, which you seem to ignore.

As for: "

Therefore Anet has stuck by what they said in the Manifesto. Even with the introduction of ascended.

Ignoring how that quote doesn’t make sense (the introduction of ascended goes completely against what they said in the Manifesto), ascended isn’t the only issue."
The correlation was exotic at the time of launch was BiS. Which doesn’t require a grind in any way shape of form. They introduced ascended. Which moved the BiS to ascended. So now players had something better to work toward. You can still get everything you need to craft ascended just by playing the game. They even expanded the rewards in other game modes to make it so sole WvW or PvP players can still craft ascended.

However, if you are assuming that grind is having to repeat anything in game more than once. Then sure, ascended doesn’t fit in with the manifesto. However, repetition is a part of video games, and MMOs in general, BUT that doesn’t mean that repetition = grind. Grind, as stated by Anet, and many other sources, is defined as the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content.

So by the actual definition, and Anets definition, does crafting ascended require grind? No. Not in the slightest.

Test.8734:

pdavis.8031:

Ascended wasnt released at launch. That came much later.

Ascended was planned at launch. At least that’s what ArenaNet said following the huge backlash after ascended’s release. You can claim they were lying about that (too), but it’s what it is.

pdavis.8031:

Therefore Anet has stuck by what they said in the Manifesto. Even with the introduction of ascended.

Ignoring how that quote doesn’t make sense (the introduction of ascended goes completely against what they said in the Manifesto), ascended isn’t the only issue.

As Vayne mentioned earlier in this topic, ArenaNet’s exact words were, “We don’t want players to grind”. ArenaNet did not say, “We don’t want players to be forced to grind”. They did not say “We don’t want players to think there is a need to grind”.

No, their exact words were, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”.

And that is a lie. If it were true and they didn’t want players to grind, they wouldn’t have linked some of the greatest rewards in the game – legendaries – to grind. If they wanted, they could have made it impossible to grind, thus really fulfilling the idea that they don’t want players to grind because “no one finds it fun”. Yet they didn’t. Because they lied.

In fact, at the written clarification of the Manifesto, which I have linked a few posts ago, ArenaNet claims GW2 is not about “grinding for a future fun reward”. Yet that’s pretty much what the process to acquire a legendary is.

pdavis.8031:

Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascended gear?

Yes. Everywhere.

Do you know why? Because if you kill every enemy in the game in every map and do all events and all dungeons and everything once and exactly once… You still won’t have enough to make a full set of ascended gear. You need repetition in order to do it. You need to grind it. Or you simply won’t have it.

So ANY sort of repetition is considered grind. Gotcha

Also in the clarification Anet said that Legendaries were acceptable, in that they are cosmetic/prestige items and not required for BiS or for progression. This also has been pointed out several times, which you seem to ignore.

As for: "

Therefore Anet has stuck by what they said in the Manifesto. Even with the introduction of ascended.

Ignoring how that quote doesn’t make sense (the introduction of ascended goes completely against what they said in the Manifesto), ascended isn’t the only issue."
The correlation was exotic at the time of launch was BiS. Which doesn’t require a grind in any way shape of form. They introduced ascended. Which moved the BiS to ascended. So now players had something better to work toward. You can still get everything you need to craft ascended just by playing the game. They even expanded the rewards in other game modes to make it so sole WvW or PvP players can still craft ascended.

However, if you are assuming that grind is having to repeat anything in game more than once. Then sure, ascended doesn’t fit in with the manifesto. However, repetition is a part of video games, and MMOs in general, BUT that doesn’t mean that repetition = grind. Grind, as stated by Anet, and many other sources, is defined as the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content.

So by the actual definition, and Anets definition, does crafting ascended require grind? No. Not in the slightest.

Test.8734:

pdavis.8031:

just on this part. If the game evolved past what was originally envisioned, is that a lie?

Too bad the Manifesto was used as one of the main marketing tool during release, when ArenaNet had already went against what it says. If you say your intention was to do something while you know what you have actually done is the opposite… Well, that’s pretty much a lie.

Vayne.8563:

What you’re saying is the obvious, reasonable response.

Again, you are ignoring the evidence – the links, the quotes and etc – to go with your usual “but most people/reasonable people/people I know agree with me”. That’s bad form, Vayne.

Hmmm.

When was the Manifesto published?
What was BiS at launch?
When was ascended introduced?

Ascended wasnt released at launch. That came much later.
Exotic was BiS until ascended. And in no way did it require a grind. Even now it is agreed that you don’t need to grind in order to get exotic. Therefore Anet has stuck by what they said in the Manifesto. Even with the introduction of ascended.

Also you haven’t answered my original questions.
Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascended gear? Is any instinces where only one boss, or type of mob drops the needed items to craft ascended gear?

@OP

I don’t think that there is an air of fear in dungeons. Having pugged almost all of my dungeon runs in my GW2 career, most everyone is super cool. The problem is when certain types of players expect specific ways of doing things in dungeons and if you don’t meet that standard you get kicked. This is only generally in the special requirements LFGs. Casuals don’t have those problems, and thus have nothing to fear.
I can count on 2 fingers the amount of times I’ve been kicked from a dungeon or fractal. I’m not a meta player, I don’t know all the dungeons well enough to know exactly when to dodge, or what order certain mobs need to be killed, or whatever.

Don’t want to be fearful? Start an any welcome casual group, or join one, and have fun. Don’t rage if someone dies or the party wipes. Don’t call out the guardians for not using reflects, or the ranger standing back with his long bow while his bear auto attacks. Just relax and have fun. You’ll find a very different dungeon climate then the one you feel is present.

Vayne.8563:

pdavis.8031:

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Maybe you weren’t there or maybe you don’t remember. Maybe Colin doesn’t remember what was said at those panels but I do remember.

They gave examples of exactly what they meant. They referred to it directly at that time. What’s more likely to be accurate, something said at the time, or something said five years later?

Vayne.8563:

They gave the example of what they meant at that time.

Guess what? I was here at the time. I remember. And those examples you mentioned?

Here is what they wrote at the time of the Manifesto. And here it says:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Future fun reward”? Do you think “levelling” is a “future fun reward”?

See, Vayne, that’s the difference between you and me. I can provide evidence to what I’m saying. I can show you where ArenaNet said “We don’t want players to grind”, I can show you quotes describing how they were not talking of grind as levelling only, I can show you where ArenaNet said that by grind they mean gear (hint: the latter is in my signature).

What can you do? Do you have even a single link quoting ArenaNet saying they saw grind as level grind only? You claim ArenaNet gave “examples” that reinforce your point, but you eternally fail to link them. Your main argument is…

Vayne.8563:

In my mind, and I think in the mind of most reasonable people.

Yeah, sorry buddy. Whatever you think “most reasonable people” means, well, it’s just your opinion. I’m argumenting with facts.

And the fact here is: the Manifesto was a lie. Has always been.

just on this part. If the game evolved past what was originally envisioned, is that a lie?

If you stated when you were young that you were never getting married. But grew up, began to view life very differently, and ended up getting married, does that make you a liar?
Anet envisioned a game where grind was not required for BiS gear. Then the game evolved and ascended was introduced. You can still craft ascended by not grinding at all. Does that mean what they originally envisioned is no longer applicable?
Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascenascended gear? Is any instinces where only one boss, or type of mob drops the needed items to craft ascended great?

What you’re saying is the obvious, reasonable response. Some people would rather malign people because it makes them feel good somehow. Those people aren’t going to change their mind, no matter how reasonable what you’re saying is.

The only thing you can really do is continue to be reasonable and hope most of the people reading know the difference between intentions and what ends up happening. We all intend things all the time, not all of which come to pass. It doesn’t make us liars.

I sure hope the people calling Anet liars don’t extent that kind of judgement to those in their social circles.

You shouldn’t say such things about yourself :P

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Maybe you weren’t there or maybe you don’t remember. Maybe Colin doesn’t remember what was said at those panels but I do remember.

They gave examples of exactly what they meant. They referred to it directly at that time. What’s more likely to be accurate, something said at the time, or something said five years later?

Vayne.8563:

They gave the example of what they meant at that time.

Guess what? I was here at the time. I remember. And those examples you mentioned?

Here is what they wrote at the time of the Manifesto. And here it says:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Future fun reward”? Do you think “levelling” is a “future fun reward”?

See, Vayne, that’s the difference between you and me. I can provide evidence to what I’m saying. I can show you where ArenaNet said “We don’t want players to grind”, I can show you quotes describing how they were not talking of grind as levelling only, I can show you where ArenaNet said that by grind they mean gear (hint: the latter is in my signature).

What can you do? Do you have even a single link quoting ArenaNet saying they saw grind as level grind only? You claim ArenaNet gave “examples” that reinforce your point, but you eternally fail to link them. Your main argument is…

Vayne.8563:

In my mind, and I think in the mind of most reasonable people.

Yeah, sorry buddy. Whatever you think “most reasonable people” means, well, it’s just your opinion. I’m argumenting with facts.

And the fact here is: the Manifesto was a lie. Has always been.

just on this part. If the game evolved past what was originally envisioned, is that a lie?

If you stated when you were young that you were never getting married. But grew up, began to view life very differently, and ended up getting married, does that make you a liar?
Anet envisioned a game where grind was not required for BiS gear. Then the game evolved and ascended was introduced. You can still craft ascended by not grinding at all. Does that mean what they originally envisioned is no longer applicable?
Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascenascended gear? Is any instinces where only one boss, or type of mob drops the needed items to craft ascended great?

Vegeta.2563:

mtpelion.4562:

Bernie.8674:

ArenaNet’s definition of grind is killing the same monsters over and over repeatedly.

ArenaNet’s definition of grind is having to do one specific task over and over again in order to get something.

Because the game is designed to allow you to do just about any task whatsoever and get the same items as a reward, there is no “grind”.

This maybe true for when trying to get gear & items. However it does not hold true to leveling. While its not exactly the same thing over and over. It is still doing the same stuff. Running around killing mobs, completing hearts, getting waypoints, vistas, and points of interest in a type of repetitive scenario. Yes you can PVP as well for Tomes of Knowledge, but thats just another path of repeating the same stuff over and over.

Honestly when I hear “grind” I think of the long time its going to take to get to max level. I don’t think about how long its going to take to farm for certain items.

Hmm interesting.

I don’t think that there is even a way possible to be able to level up without having to do some similiar things repetively. For example, While killing mobs, doing events, and doing hearts, are generally the same type of play, you are not stuck in Queensdale until level 15 killing bandits and saving the same farm from being taken over by the bandits, over and over until you level up.

Is there a way to be able to level without killing mobs, doing events/hearts, PvP, exploration, etc. without having some of it be similar in nature? If so I certainly would love to see a system like that.

Deamhan.9538:

Materials is one step too far removed. Gathering mats does not get you an ascended.

Crafting gets you the ascended. For which you need to level that crafting to max. An obscenely rare chance of a drop is the other way.

Thus there is only two ways to get ascended and only one is reliable.

With exotic I can craft (the act of getting it and not simply gathering mats for which there is plenty of ways here too), spend karma (I can get karma in many different ways), get it as a drop (unreliable but better odds than ascended), spend gold + badges from vendor, spend gold on TP (craft or drop being the ultimate source).

I can’t spend karma on ascended, I can’t spend gold + badges, and I can’t spend gold on TP.

Of course crafting is the one of the only ways to get ascended. I agree that ascended drops are far too unreliable to even be considered.

However, all the materials needed to level your crafting to 500, and to craft the ascended itself are obtainable through normal drops via normal play. I don’t need to grind to get everything that I need to be able to craft. And gathering mats IS a way to get the materials needed to craft ascended. (weapons and heavy armor.)

The argument being made is that Ascended is expensive, and so you need to grind to get it. I am contending that while it is expensive, you don’t need to grind to get it. As said in the “Why is silk so expensive?” thread, there is a “percieved” grind that players have forced upon themselves. Its not something that Anet has, or has not, done to cause people to feel that it is required that they repeat content continually trying to craft ascended gear.

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

You do If you want to make ascended gear. This is a fact and arguing against facts doesn’t change them.

What part of crafting ascended gear requires a grind?
Cloth? Can get as drops from almost every enemy.
Ascended mats? (i.e. bloodstone, empyreal fragments, dragonite.) Come from a variety of sources, and that abundantly. None of which I need to do repeteivly in order to get.
Recipes? Get laurals just from logging in.

Cloth absolutely requires a grind either in gold or materials. To say otherwise makes no sense to anyone. Ascended materials are easy but cloth and leather require massive amounts of lower mats that must be grinder or purchased in quanties that require vast amounts of gold.

It’s only a grind if you feel the need to get it ASAP. I think I’ve been working on my current light ascended piece for about 2 months now? And am almost done with it. Did I need to spend countless hours doing the same thing over and over to get it? nope. (Although to be fair, I have been running alot of SW lately. LOVE THAT MAP!! Plus it gives a great amount of silk.)

So your saying that one cannot get the required amount of cloth/leather just by playing the game? Why not? ~1/3 of all armor drops give cloth. (salvaging), bags and salavagables also provide cloth. Map completion provides cloth. So I can get all the cloth I need simply by playing the game. Is it going to take longer? Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean I am forced into repeating stuff (aka grinding) JUST to get the materials needed.

All evidence to the contrary but continue to white night in the face of evidence. Your arguments continue to be (not just in this thread) that you don’t have to grind if you don’t want to but you’ve made a critical error here. Ascended light armor is very expensive because the cloth used to make it and even the leather to a lesser degree require either a large sum of gold or time to acquire. You mention silk from SW but fail to mention cotton and linen (forget about those?). As you’ve stated just now you’re working on your ascended for the past 2 months which is counter to your claim that it’s easy.

I have yet to see any evidence that ascended gear requires a grind. I am not disputing the fact that ascended light is expensive, nor that it requires a large amount of mats to make. There are multiple ways to craft ascended. Farm/grind for the required mats, farm/grind for gold, or play the game and aquire the mats along the way.

As far as Linen, wool, and cotton. Those also drop in the level appropriate zones. If I want to get those I need to go do content in those places. Thats not a grind. It’s changing the location of where I play. I can go do some JPs, or events, or randomly wander around exploring and killing things, and still get those mats needed. Same for leather, wood, and metal.

Tell me. What content DOES NOT give any of the materials required to craft ascended? The only one I can think of is activities. (i.e. southsun survival, sanctum sprint, etc.)
What content DOES NOT give money so that you can buy the mats if you want?

You accuse me of “white knighting in the face of evidence”. Yet I can say the exact same about those claiming that ascended gear “requires” a grind of some sort in order to craft it. The TRUTH is that Anet has included multiple ways of getting the mats to craft ascended armor. So no one is forced into doing certain content repeatedly in order to obtain it. Period. So unless you can show me real evidence that you CANNOT get ALL the mats needed by playing any game mode, by all means, please do so.

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

You do If you want to make ascended gear. This is a fact and arguing against facts doesn’t change them.

What part of crafting ascended gear requires a grind?
Cloth? Can get as drops from almost every enemy.
Ascended mats? (i.e. bloodstone, empyreal fragments, dragonite.) Come from a variety of sources, and that abundantly. None of which I need to do repeteivly in order to get.
Recipes? Get laurals just from logging in.

Cloth absolutely requires a grind either in gold or materials. To say otherwise makes no sense to anyone. Ascended materials are easy but cloth and leather require massive amounts of lower mats that must be grinder or purchased in quanties that require vast amounts of gold.

It’s only a grind if you feel the need to get it ASAP. I think I’ve been working on my current light ascended piece for about 2 months now? And am almost done with it. Did I need to spend countless hours doing the same thing over and over to get it? nope. (Although to be fair, I have been running alot of SW lately. LOVE THAT MAP!! Plus it gives a great amount of silk.)

So your saying that one cannot get the required amount of cloth/leather just by playing the game? Why not? ~1/3 of all armor drops give cloth. (salvaging), bags and salavagables also provide cloth. Map completion provides cloth. So I can get all the cloth I need simply by playing the game. Is it going to take longer? Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean I am forced into repeating stuff (aka grinding) JUST to get the materials needed.

Kedarrian.2905:

pdavis.8031:

Why does it have to be one or the other?
They are letting the players play how they want. It doesn’t hurt anything. The only thing negative about it is that trolls come in and kick and steal the instance, but thats a problem that needs to be fixed anyway and not limited to dungeon selling.

a) I dont appreciate seeing path selling on the lfg and i bet many others would be happier if they could filter it out too. Plus it does hurt something because people get kicked at the end of dungeons.

b) Path sellers being kicked doesnt need to be addresssed because its not what the party system was designed to function for. Legit players being kicked by people intending to sell the path does need to be fixed because legit player arents meant to be kicked out for profit. It just so happens they are the same mechanic.

Still, i would like to see a filter because to me, path selling is separate to normal dungeon running. They shoudln’t occupy the same space.

So it’s ok to kick a player for trying to sell a dungeon, but not ok to kick to take over the dungeon?

The party system was designed to bring like minded players together to do specific content. If someone is selling a dungeon and they advertise on the LFG, it attracts like minded players who are willing to pay for a dungeon. (why I can’t imagine, but thats not my cup of tea.) So the LFG is being utilized for the intended purposes of the LFG.

Selling dungeons is a legitiment industry. Although not officially supported, nor condemned by ANet. But one that they don’t see as a problem.

Also people are getting kicked just because, not because a dungeon seller is taking over the instance. So dungeon kicking in general needs to be addressed.

So why do you feel that players need to play the game in the manner that you deem acceptable? Why is it wrong for a player to solo/duo a dungeon, and sell the path in order to profit? Isn’t the game big enough to allow different people the ability to play in a different manner?

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

Bernie.8674:

Test.8734:

The statement “We don’t want people to grind” is factually a lie – if that were true, ArenaNet would not allow people to grind, much less make grind far more rewarding than not grinding.

Agreed. They used to have diminishing rewards built into the game. If you spent too long in an area grinding the same content repeatedly the drops would degrade in quantity and quality. They removed that constraint, effectively incentivizing grind over gameplay.

Are you sure about that? Pretty sure DR is still in the game. However, it is not known what the threshold for it to kick in is, as far as drops are concerned. Also John Smith did say recently that there have been very few people to have hit DR while farming/grinding. So it’s almost a non issues, but still in the game.

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’ve not read this whole thread so forgive me if this is answered elsewhere. I want to ask a few questions.

1. Is the loot system currently set up so people who play less are more likely to get an awesome RNG drop? There have been numerous posts like, “my friend logged on after 5 months and got X, Y, Z drop while I’ve been playing every day and got nothing!” I want to know if the way it works currently is that those who play lots get decreasing loot in proportion to playtime. Why would ANET do this? To keep people chasing the carrot.

John answered that question in a different thread, there arent any account modifiers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/I-have-a-question-about-the-economy/page/15#post4487484

what he is speaking of wouldnt be an account modifier, and it probably does exist, mildy. There is Diminishing returns on drops and it decays pretty slowly. You will in fact see more drops in your first few hours after not having played for awhile.

They will never tell us exactly what is happening, but your friend who plays rarely will basically have no DR for almost all of their playtime.

Still catching up, but I wanted to stop to be clear. No to this. This doesn’t happen, it’s a cognitive bias. There’s virtually no DR active on any given day.

john smith is wrong or his view is very subjective, its really really easy to get DR, i can see DR in like 20 minutes in silverwastes and Orr. Quantifiable provable DR. when you start to get less karma/gold per gold dynamic event? you just hit one form of DR.

perhaps its a bug, but that just means anet doesnt know about it. It wouldnt be the first time.

Pretty sure John was speaking directly to the DR as applied to drops, as was the context for the section quoted.

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’ve not read this whole thread so forgive me if this is answered elsewhere. I want to ask a few questions.

1. Is the loot system currently set up so people who play less are more likely to get an awesome RNG drop? There have been numerous posts like, “my friend logged on after 5 months and got X, Y, Z drop while I’ve been playing every day and got nothing!” I want to know if the way it works currently is that those who play lots get decreasing loot in proportion to playtime. Why would ANET do this? To keep people chasing the carrot.

John answered that question in a different thread, there arent any account modifiers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/I-have-a-question-about-the-economy/page/15#post4487484

what he is speaking of wouldnt be an account modifier, and it probably does exist, mildy. There is Diminishing returns on drops and it decays pretty slowly. You will in fact see more drops in your first few hours after not having played for awhile.

They will never tell us exactly what is happening, but your friend who plays rarely will basically have no DR for almost all of their playtime.

Still catching up, but I wanted to stop to be clear. No to this. This doesn’t happen, it’s a cognitive bias. There’s virtually no DR active on any given day.

The DR for karma/gold rewards for events and/or dungeons can be seen fairly quickly, as it should be. It helps stop bots from just farming events for hours. But again, it looks like John was referring to loot drops, as was the topic of that post.

Devata.6589:

pdavis.8031:

Devata.6589:

“Those who don’t like to grind for the items” You mean people farming directly for items?. but that is one of the things that is pretty much impossible in this game.

There are grinds where you know there are ‘good’ drops and so you can make a lot of gold with it, but directly farming for an item you want is nearly or completely impossible in this game (for example there is not any direct in-game way to get any of the cash-shop items other then getting gold). That is the whole point, going directly for an item is nearly impossible, that is what turns everything into a gold (currency) grind.

Not true at all. Using ascended as an example. I can effectively farm for every single material needed to craft ascended, without ever having to spend a copper in the TP.
I’ve done it with my first and second sets of ascended armor, and for most of my legendary.

As far as gem store items, those don’t count. Those are cosmetic, completely optional, and don’t fall into the catagory of nessecary equipment, or BiS gear.

Lol.. I couldn’t care less for ascended, I care for cosmetics so they 100% count. Not for you but for all those who are interested in cosmetics. I don’t care if it;s optional. People complain about some grind in WoW and say it’s required, however I never had to grind in the game so then thats also optional and does not count?

It counts if people experience it as grind. It does not matter if something is optional, the whole game is optional, any game is optional so by that reasoning the term grind does not even exist.

Cosmetics don’t provide any change in stats. Sure some people care about them, but the point is grind for BiS gear. Even so, skins can be bought either on the TP, or in the gem store. Both of which provide multiple ways to aquire them, either with a credit card, gem conversion, or the TP (for those skins not available in the gem store).
If someone wants them they don’t need to grind to get them. As said before they can get gold just buy playing, and converting to gems, or by using a credit card and gem conversion. None of which requires grinding, or doing the same content over and over in order to get them.

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

You do If you want to make ascended gear. This is a fact and arguing against facts doesn’t change them.

What part of crafting ascended gear requires a grind?
Cloth? Can get as drops from almost every enemy.
Ascended mats? (i.e. bloodstone, empyreal fragments, dragonite.) Come from a variety of sources, and that abundantly. None of which I need to do repeteivly in order to get.
Recipes? Get laurals just from logging in.

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

Devata.6589:

“Those who don’t like to grind for the items” You mean people farming directly for items?. but that is one of the things that is pretty much impossible in this game.

There are grinds where you know there are ‘good’ drops and so you can make a lot of gold with it, but directly farming for an item you want is nearly or completely impossible in this game (for example there is not any direct in-game way to get any of the cash-shop items other then getting gold). That is the whole point, going directly for an item is nearly impossible, that is what turns everything into a gold (currency) grind.

Not true at all. Using ascended as an example. I can effectively farm for every single material needed to craft ascended, without ever having to spend a copper in the TP.
I’ve done it with my first and second sets of ascended armor, and for most of my legendary.

As far as gem store items, those don’t count. Those are cosmetic, completely optional, and don’t fall into the catagory of nessecary equipment, or BiS gear.

Devata.6589:

People just get stuff they don’t want, then sell it for gold to then buy what they want. Oow and btw, if you would implement it in a way where you could go (more) directly for an item, the option to grind would still be there for all the items that are not account-bound as they would still end up on the TP, but then the grind would be optional as you could also work directly towards the item.

I am not sure I understand. Everything on the TP is available as a drop and can be aquired in game from any game mode. However, if you are saying, making ways to get a specific item from doing specific content, then yeah I am not opposed to such an idea.

Devata.6589:

“Those who don’t like to grind for the items have the option to buy them off the TP” You mean they can grind gold to buy it.. Exactly what is happening, everybody grinds to sell items they do not want to buy what they do want. (what they do not want another person wants and the other way around).

Yes you can use gold to buy what you want, but that doesn’t mean you have to grind to get gold. Every game mode provides gold. Some faster than others of course. But the only way you are not getting any money of any sort while playing the game is standing around LA playing your wintersday bells or something.

So your ‘positive’ in reality simply means grind or grind.

“which helps remove gold from the game due to the TP fees, and causes the flow of gold,” But also more need to grind gold. And if the game would be better at rewarding direct items (people want) there would also be less need to reward gold (as gold would be less important) and so less need to remove it.

Devata.6589:

“As for those who don’t care, they will eventually get what they want just by playing the game.” Not if what they want are multiple items and going up as new items are added. The more other people grind, the more prices will go up the more those who do not grind are getting behind. They will be able to get a few items yes but they will not be able to really collect or always go for some cool (new) items they see (other then grinding).

As more people buy things off the TP, the higher the prices rise. So farming gold and just buying it solely off the TP actually causes prices to go up, which in turn causes the need to farm more gold to keep up. If more people were farming the items, than farming gold, and it is entirely possible to do so, and selling more, prices would actually drop.

Devata.6589:

“even these types of players are good for the game, because it is this type that tends to spend more money in gems then the grinders” This is likely the whole point. Give people the choice, a boring grind or buy money (reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbWr0zO7Ac ). What could be reasonable or at least understandable in a F2P game (that is also why they tend to be pretty bad) but not in a B2P game. If they want money to work on the game simply release more game (expansions).

dlonie.6547:

I have a feeling they’d rather stick with their “ignore it and hope it goes away” approach to dungeon selling.

Pretty much. Although I don’t think that it’s so much ignor and hope it goes away. I just don’t think that they see any problem with it, and have no reason to do anything about it.

glogy.1854:

Hello!
My goal is ascended gear or legendary wep To make asc i need min 10 g daily to make bolt of damask for next 30 days and thats probably it. For legendary, everything Mostly t6 mats and precursor, so that will never happen My quetion is:

What is the best way to farm gold or t6 mats? Dungeons, SW, FGS Champ train, ORR? Just want to hear experience from you ppl. should i focus on something for next month to achiwe my goal and what is the best to make money or anything to accomplish at least asc gear?

For example, when i open embroided chest, should i sell mats(gold), save them? Green gear in mystic forge or sell? What about blue – salvage or sell? I salvage rares for ectoplasm, but with others i dont know what to do

I hope i could manage better mats/gold/items, i probably lose money by wrong managment of them
Ty for help and sorry for bad eng

It largely depends on what you enjoy doing, and how long you expect to take to meet your goals. If you are looking to do it in the fastest way possible. Farm gold. Do a daily dungeon rotation and buy what you need. If you don’t care about how long it takes, go do the things you enjoy doing and get the stuff along the way.

When making my legendary and ascended armor, I farmed for most of it. I focused on what I needed to get, did some research, and did whatever content I needed to do. I found it fun. Plus I was able to sell what I didn’t need and turn around and buy some of what I did.

In the end, it’s all about having fun. If you set your goals so that you are not having fun trying to get what you want, you might want to reevaluate either your methods, or what you are doing. Because if you are not having fun, whats the point?

Sorel.4870:

pdavis.8031:

nevertrending.5632:

I’m one of the Officers in Ultimate Dominator Day [ULTD], ask me anything

Aside from farming bags and rank, what purpose does this serve?
Do you often get people raging or trying to troll for “not playing the right way”?
What caused you to start doing this?

And for those who don’t like this practice:
Why not?
Does it cause harm to the game?
Does it interfere with the normal WvW?

I have nothing against it. People’s fun works in mysterious ways.

True, but there are some out there vehemently opposed to such things. I guess some people will rage about anything I guess.

Kedarrian.2905:

Well, i dont highly rate their current hands-off approach. I would like to see them either support its existance with some sort of filter, or forbid it outright.

Why does it have to be one or the other?
They are letting the players play how they want. It doesn’t hurt anything. The only thing negative about it is that trolls come in and kick and steal the instance, but thats a problem that needs to be fixed anyway and not limited to dungeon selling.

nevertrending.5632:

I’m one of the Officers in Ultimate Dominator Day [ULTD], ask me anything

Aside from farming bags and rank, what purpose does this serve?
Do you often get people raging or trying to troll for “not playing the right way”?
What caused you to start doing this?

And for those who don’t like this practice:
Why not?
Does it cause harm to the game?
Does it interfere with the normal WvW?

The problem is, if Anet makes a sub section for path sellers, than they officialy now support it. Based on thier comments and reactions to dungeon selling in general, I don’t see them changing their stance on it any time soon. As it is now, you can sell the dungeons, but if you don’t get paid, or ripped off if buying, than it’s “buyer beware” and they won’t do anything about it.

Devata.6589:

pdavis.8031:

Ok. I’ve been watching this thread for awhile. Now I feel it’s time to weigh in.

So the whole argument, that keeps going in circles is:
Anet said “no grind”. But ascended is grind. Thus Anet lied.
But ascended is optional and is there for a goal for people to work toward.
But ascended is BiS gear. Period. And if you want BiS you need to grind to get it.
[insert break down if ascended vs. exotic stats] But it’s not that much of a difference, thus still optional.
[instert break down of ascended vs exotic] but that much makes it almost a requirement in certain game modes, where it basically comes down to a numbers game.
But colin clarified it and said, that most of the grind in game is optional, and that acceptable.
But ascended isn’t optional if you want BiS. Thus it’s a grind, and Anet lied.
Ad Nauseum.

Basically it comes down to this.
So what if ascended, skins, legendaries, BiS, fractals, etc. is a grind? So Anet changed their minds and made ascended, which does require a grind. And? Does this mean the game is kittened now? Is there such a mass exodus that Anet is looking at closing their doors? Does it mean that BiS (i.e. ascended) takes more time? So what if it does?Does it stop you from being able to complete or participate in any game mode or game game activity?
So the manifesto doesn’t match up exactly to what the game is now. But what does it matter? Do you still login and play? If yes, then I’d say what the manifesto says really has no bearing on whether or not anyone plays or enjoys the game. If no, then why are you complaining about it? You don’t play so it doesn’t effect you.

Anet isn’t going to change the manifesto, the game, or ascended equipment just because people feel that it’s a grind. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Period. If you do like it. Great! More power to you. But in the end, this discussion really doesn’t solve anything and only serves to inflame passions, and circular arguments which basically boil down to “yes it is!” “No it isn’t” “Yes it is!” “No it isn’t!”

/end thread.

“So what” Because it’s bad for the game, it makes the game less fun and yes people are did leave because of it. Also income has been going down ever since launch so it need to go up for the game to also financially stay successful.

With HoT many people will return, including those who left because the game was boring (bercause of the grind). If they leave again they won’t come back again resulting in less money, and less support and so also a game that is going even more down quality wise.

So that is ‘what’.

/open thread.

So some people leave, but others come in. It is a revolving door. But I have no reason to believe that there has been any reduction of numbers that would be cause for alarm. There has been 0 evidence on way or another on the matter of population and player retention. However, I see more new people posting on the forums everyday, so that at least tells us people are coming in, but doesn’t give us any indication of how many are leaving.

And “being bad for the game” is very subjective at the very best. Some people like having a bit of a grind. Others not so much, and still others don’t care one way or another. Those who like grind will spend hours doing what they need to, which brings in more supply to the economy, which helps the game as a whole. Those who don’t like to grind for the items have the option to buy them off the TP, which helps remove gold from the game due to the TP fees, and causes the flow of gold, which also helps the game economy as a whole. As for those who don’t care, they will eventually get what they want just by playing the game.Even these types of players are good for the game, because it is this type that tends to spend more money in gems then the grinders, and the TPers, which also helps fund Anet, which helps the game.

So again, whether or not Anet said that there is no grind, or what exactly they meant by it, doesn’t really matter.

Bernie.8674:

Test.8734:

The statement “We don’t want people to grind” is factually a lie – if that were true, ArenaNet would not allow people to grind, much less make grind far more rewarding than not grinding.

Agreed. They used to have diminishing rewards built into the game. If you spent too long in an area grinding the same content repeatedly the drops would degrade in quantity and quality. They removed that constraint, effectively incentivizing grind over gameplay.

Are you sure about that? Pretty sure DR is still in the game. However, it is not known what the threshold for it to kick in is, as far as drops are concerned. Also John Smith did say recently that there have been very few people to have hit DR while farming/grinding. So it’s almost a non issues, but still in the game.

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

I’ve not read this whole thread so forgive me if this is answered elsewhere. I want to ask a few questions.

1. Is the loot system currently set up so people who play less are more likely to get an awesome RNG drop? There have been numerous posts like, “my friend logged on after 5 months and got X, Y, Z drop while I’ve been playing every day and got nothing!” I want to know if the way it works currently is that those who play lots get decreasing loot in proportion to playtime. Why would ANET do this? To keep people chasing the carrot.

John answered that question in a different thread, there arent any account modifiers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/I-have-a-question-about-the-economy/page/15#post4487484

what he is speaking of wouldnt be an account modifier, and it probably does exist, mildy. There is Diminishing returns on drops and it decays pretty slowly. You will in fact see more drops in your first few hours after not having played for awhile.

They will never tell us exactly what is happening, but your friend who plays rarely will basically have no DR for almost all of their playtime.

Still catching up, but I wanted to stop to be clear. No to this. This doesn’t happen, it’s a cognitive bias. There’s virtually no DR active on any given day.

Ok. I’ve been watching this thread for awhile. Now I feel it’s time to weigh in.

So the whole argument, that keeps going in circles is:
Anet said “no grind”. But ascended is grind. Thus Anet lied.
But ascended is optional and is there for a goal for people to work toward.
But ascended is BiS gear. Period. And if you want BiS you need to grind to get it.
[insert break down if ascended vs. exotic stats] But it’s not that much of a difference, thus still optional.
[instert break down of ascended vs exotic] but that much makes it almost a requirement in certain game modes, where it basically comes down to a numbers game.
But colin clarified it and said, that most of the grind in game is optional, and that acceptable.
But ascended isn’t optional if you want BiS. Thus it’s a grind, and Anet lied.
Ad Nauseum.

Basically it comes down to this.
So what if ascended, skins, legendaries, BiS, fractals, etc. is a grind? So Anet changed their minds and made ascended, which does require a grind. And? Does this mean the game is kittened now? Is there such a mass exodus that Anet is looking at closing their doors? Does it mean that BiS (i.e. ascended) takes more time? So what if it does?Does it stop you from being able to complete or participate in any game mode or game game activity?
So the manifesto doesn’t match up exactly to what the game is now. But what does it matter? Do you still login and play? If yes, then I’d say what the manifesto says really has no bearing on whether or not anyone plays or enjoys the game. If no, then why are you complaining about it? You don’t play so it doesn’t effect you.

Anet isn’t going to change the manifesto, the game, or ascended equipment just because people feel that it’s a grind. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Period. If you do like it. Great! More power to you. But in the end, this discussion really doesn’t solve anything and only serves to inflame passions, and circular arguments which basically boil down to “yes it is!” “No it isn’t” “Yes it is!” “No it isn’t!”

/end thread.

munkiman:

It’s not that less of a choice is a better experience, its that the achievements are now more focused than they were. Sure it does “limit your options”, but having them more focused, and required to go out of your way in order to do them, essentially is what we, the players, have said we wanted, and it also fits into what Anet wants for achievements. They are optional.

Balsa.3951:

pdavis.8031:

I am sure we would all love to see Season 1 brought back.
But what has me confused is: “skip all the grind content”.

I played through most of season 1, and don’t remember any grind content. The events were there and I could do them at will during the time they were available, but there was nothing that I was forced to grind. Can you please clarify this please? Thanks!

yes sure i love too.

for example do u remember those Knights when scarlet attacked ?
we all hoped and killed them many times for a blue green or red crystal someting so we can build the backpiece.

so People often only did those many many times I still want those Knights but I dont want a grind for luck to get those crystals. Or higher the rate that nobody need kill them 100 times to get his backpiece

(which i totally support everybody can have)

Aaaah gotcha.

So you mean doing the same content over and over for a completely optional backpiece? I didn’t much care for that one so I never went for it. Sure it was ascended, and has the benefit of the extra stats, but there were other options available, so it wasn’t exactly required.

So essentailly you are suggesting bringing back season 1 (which they already said it is something they would like to do, but not something they are looking at doing at this time.) without including the rewards that went with the chapters.

Its funny. Before the change to the current PvE daily system, the chief complaint was that getting the dailies was too easy, didn’t feel challenging enough, and if you didn’t do them, you missed out on laurals. (which was a major reason why people did them.)
Now that they have changed to be completely optional (Laurals being granted as part of the daily log on bonus) and requiring a bit more focus, people are complaining that they are too focused, too grindy, and not fair.

Anet listened to us the first time, and changed the system to fit what we wanted. Now you get the daily rewards just for logging in. If you want a few extra AP, then make the effort, and go do them. Achievements are supposed to be for those who want a specific task, more focus, and a bit of a challenge. Something to work towards, yet at the same tme remain optional and not required. This current daily system embodies that idea of achievements perfectly. If you want them, go get them. If you don’t, than thats fine. Sure you’ll have to go out of your way, but thats the whole point.

I am sure we would all love to see Season 1 brought back.
But what has me confused is: “skip all the grind content”.

I played through most of season 1, and don’t remember any grind content. The events were there and I could do them at will during the time they were available, but there was nothing that I was forced to grind. Can you please clarify this please? Thanks!

Silverwastes all the way. I delete at least a stack or 2 a day from doing a couple of runs. Same for the others as well. Not as much dragonite, or empyreal stars, but still more than I ever care to have.

Nevets Crimsonwing:
As stated in that same quote: “Dungeon selling is not something that will be officially supported. Listing a group on the LFG tool is opening it up to a public realm and you do so at your own risk.

Customer Service will not be able to support any interactions that involves group formation politics.”

He was specifically referring to dungeon selling.
Also “group formation politics” would refer to the formation of a group. So someone joining a “zerker only, 15k AP” group while not wearing zerker gear, or having the required AP would not be grounds to report for getting kicked. CSW isn’t going to do something about that. Nor will they take action for listing a group with specific requirements. (i.e. selling a dungeon path and reporting for not recieving payments.)

Also Gaile has said several times on multiple occasions sending in multiple tickets about the same incident doesn’t speed up time. In fact it slows down the response times, as it takes longer for CS to investigate and respond each time you send in a new ticket.

It’s a VERY long leap from Anet isn’t acting as fast as you would like, to actively supporting such behavior. When they have stated VERY clearly that such actions are reportable and WILL be investigated and actioned as appropriate.

insanemaniac.2456:

pdavis.8031:

Run Silverwastes. LOTS of blues and greens and rares available. Salvage everything, and dropped ectos from rares, and you’ll get to 300% in no time. Plus to save your mouse and fingers, be sure to consolidate them using Artificer.

However it would be nice to either have a 500 luck recipe for Artificer, or be able to throw in 10 blues, 2 greens, 1 yellow, and 1 orange into the MF to create 500 EoL. It would certainly help with all the clicking…just sayin….

sw will never compare to the faucet that is the tp

This is true. However for those without tons of gold to spend just on getting MF, this is a great alternative. You get lots of stuff to salvage, some coin, and a decent amount of MF along the way.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

pdavis, I know their stated INTENTIONS for the party leader change, but I’m telling you what happened in EFFECT.

Also, Chris posted that BECAUSE, as I said, he was backpedalling after the team said that if you get kicked it’s basically on you.

Lastly, as Jerus posted, you have people submitting videos of people stealing instances dozens of times and those people not being banned.

Just the other day 2 people joined in my Arah P1 and kicked me out of it. They did the same to THREE OTHER ARAH P1s. All 4 of us got together, reported in game, got screen shots, reported via the forums.

I received an automated response back that didn’t address the complaint at all, and the people who kicked me are still walking around in game.

Oh, also, after they kicked me out of the instance, which I solod, they posted it on LFG under “Crimson sucks.”

No consequences.

Thus, after years of this BS behavior not being acknowledged or acted upon, I will sit here and fully argue that ANET supports this behavior until they give me reason to believe otherwise.

Again. Do you have quotes that state that Anet said if you get kicked its on you?

Also were the videos posted in a CS report? Or just posted either on the forums, or reddit, or wherever?

As for you latest incident, did you send a report?

You also have to take into consideration that reports are looked at at a first come first served basis. If you have a bunch of people sending in reports all the time, it’s going to take time to investigate and action each report. You also aren’t going to recieve notification that any action has been taken. So while you may still see those players in game, how do you know that they didn’t recieve a suspension? Or a warning?. As Colin said, sometimes after players are warned they generally don’t continue to do such things.

Sometimes a perma ban isn’t always issued for every infraction. Also as far as WvW cheaters is concerned, people are banned all the time. While at large the WvW community is saying that nothing is ever done. I would think that the same applies to dungeon parties and kicking.

Michael Henninger.7451:

psizone.8437:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Send in game mail to GM Madi Walker.7520

I did that this time though last time I did so I received no reply and people kept seeing the hacker around.

I check them all, but most cheaters don’t cheat 24/7. That said I knock at least one out every day.

So based on the dev responses, I feel that one can safely assume that such reports don’t go over looked, are investigated and actioned as deemed appropriate.

steeldragon:

I was being sarcastic.

It certainly wouldn’t be a terrible idea. But I have a feeling it would be much more involved than just adding a “randomize” button.

RNG character creation…

with a .0001% of rolling an Elementalist. :P

Yeah I generally just stick with the default options. And if I feel I want to give them a certain look…well thats what make over kits are for.

Hmm not bad.

However,

1. I don’t think that randomly putting people into random groups is a good idea. For those wanting a specialized group getting random pugs that don’t meet the requirements and not have the ability to kick would be horrible. I feel that forcing people together, without the option to leave would only cause rage, hate, trolling, ect.

2. This is much better. Although I would remove the gear check ability. Also a concern that comes to mind would be that the party leader gets a party, gets to the end, and than kicks everyone, and brings in his buddies. This already happens to an extent, and it certainly isn’t ok. But just having one person with kick power just invites such things.
Instead I would have it so only the party leader can initiate a kick, or have the party leader have to approve a kick, but it still needs to have a vote.

Rangelost.4857:

Aside from megaservers, I’ve never seen a feature this buggy in my life.

Clearly you have never used Windows ME…. :P

To the OP.

Things that are open from level 1.

Dodging
WvW
PvP
Mail
Guilds
Vistas
Trading Post
Crafting

Sure some of the things are locked behind levels, but as others said, if you are grinding mobs trying to level, you’re going to have a bad time.

Try to do some events, or the hearts. Take some time and explore and have fun. You’ll find that you can level up fairly easily and fairly quickly this way instead of staying near the starting point and killing the same low level mobs over and over again.

Run Silverwastes. LOTS of blues and greens and rares available. Salvage everything, and dropped ectos from rares, and you’ll get to 300% in no time. Plus to save your mouse and fingers, be sure to consolidate them using Artificer.

However it would be nice to either have a 500 luck recipe for Artificer, or be able to throw in 10 blues, 2 greens, 1 yellow, and 1 orange into the MF to create 500 EoL. It would certainly help with all the clicking…just sayin….

Nevets Crimsonwing:
~snip~

They changed the owner system because everyone would be kicked if the owner DC’d, changed characters, or left the party. They stated as much. Of course you are free to think that it was some other malicous purpose.

Dungeon Instance Owner

“We’ve changed the way dungeon instances work. Currently, the instance is “owned” by the first person to enter the instance; this creates some issues when that person leaves or is kicked from the party.
To prevent the dungeon instance from closing when any one person leaves, we’ve removed the concept of a dungeon “owner.” If everyone leaves an instance, it will close, but you don’t have to worry about one person leaving your party and having to restart your dungeon! Our goal here is to make instances more user-friendly, as the hidden owner concept was often hard to understand and resulted in people losing progress randomly when someone left.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/september-2014-feature-pack-improvements-galore/

Do you have quotes? Because from what I remember, everything they said about it was that stealing instances was a reportable offence, and that they do look into when it happens.

Chris Cleary.8017:

I’ll go ahead and clarify since there has apparently been different information coming from different sources in the past. Customer Service is not able to support party politics unless they involve cases of targeted harassment in-game. This is because of the number of different reasons that certain party politics happen. Since CS only has access to actions that occur in-game, we are unable to verify specifics for incidents in a large number of incidents. Specifics are the most important part of these situations.

However, we do view player reports via CS tickets, and if a player can be verified as a habitual abuser of the LFG system or parties in general, we can take action against them.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Elrey.5472:

What Chris said is that selling dungeons isn’t supported and if you get kicked while trying to sell it’s your own fault. However, if someone joins the group and kicks you out of a dungeon for any reason, that should be reported just in case that same player is doing the same to a lot of people, in which cause it should be banned due to community toxicity and griefing(is that a word in english?) players.

I believe that’s what he meant.

This is a good way to interpret what I said.

Edit: ^lol interoperate, thanks auto correct

Chris Cleary.8017:

Jerus.4350:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Trice.4598:

And here it is…

They deleted that guy thread where he posted proof (and where the exploiter admitted) of people Abusing LFG, exploting and selling the path after. And you know what? I bet you 100 gold that I will see those 3 warriors logging on tomorrow, and the day after. I know it’s against policy to put name on the forum but there is no way to be heard otherwise.

I’ll take that 100g bet. We aren’t going to ignore reports of GM impersonation and harassment. This was a case of both, and has been dealt with. These players have been actioned, one more severely than the others.

That being said, putting that kind if information into a public post is just asking for the thread to be removed. Next time submit a CS Support Ticket please.

I hope you can understand why many of us here don’t have much faith in the system currently.

Yup. But the problem about reporting here on the forums is that it requires information to be shared in a public place that should not be. It’s against the forum rules to do so, and thus the posts have to be taken down. However, in a CS Ticket, that isn’t the case.

As with any in-game enforcement, it is not going to be visable to anyone but the player being actioned (unless in rare cases like the one above). You want to see results of your reports and feel that your reports are going into a black hole. This is hardly the case, as most harassment cases (with actual information being shared in the ticket) are reviewed by a senior GM. Since we don’t share the results of those cases with the players reporting, you aren’t going to see when when someone gets actioned.

Most players that are actioned do not repeat offend. Unfortunately, some do…and they won’t be allowed back in when caught.

I agree that the party system has a problem with player kicks, and we aren’t going to ignore that. Unfortunately as it’s been stated by other devs, this isn’t an easy fix. Please keep your reports coming in until we fix the problem.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-owner-sometimes-required/4398351/quote

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

ANET officially supports this behavior, unfortunately. Many of us disagree with them, but they actively promote griefing, trolling, stealing of instances, etc etc.

And pray tell how they do that? Dont they have multiple reaponses about this very thing? An that you should report? Werent they working on changing the kick system to help deter these things from happening?

Just because you dont feel they have, or are, taking action doesnt mean they arent,

Yeah, most of the great for lower levels isn’t the prettiest. However most people dont bother with their look until lvl 80, as you are changing gear frequently when you find something better, and having a few transumation charges.
It doesnt take very long to level amd gear becomes obsolete too quickly.

It depends.

Do you like setting people on fire from a distance?
Do you want to be able to summon creatures from the underworld to do your bidding?
Do you like confusing players and using their own power against them?

Just starting out, I would try Necro or elementalist. You can always create another if you don’t like that one. Try them all out and find out which one works for you. I have a warrior, Necro, elementalist, ranger, guardian, and working on an engineer. I’ve been playing my Necro alot lately but enjoy all of them.

I am going to assume you are just referring to the WvW aspect, as I’m sure you know all about mega servers.

In my experience, Stormbluff Isle has some great people and guilds. Although they are in a lower tier, it was still really fun running with them. But it is more casual.

Also Dragoband. Not top tier but also some good folks and great guilds and some amazing commanders.

When choosing a new server don’t just look at the tier and numbers, but also try to look at the server culture. You’ll be spending your time with that folks and if you don’t like them it’ll just make the experience that much worse. Good luck!

Saint.5647:

pdavis.8031:

evanlegion.7680:

Dakinia.8923:

vpchelko.4261:

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

There are still people that judge player ability by AP? There are so many ways to get AP without doing dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc. Always found it amusing back when I used to play (just came back recently) when people looked for a certain AP level to get into a dungeon group.

AP is a bad measurement but its the only one we have

So instead of basing a judgement about how well a player is using a bad measuring device, why not play with them and see how well they do, then judge them?

The “elite” dungeon community often uses AP as a measuring device to restrict certain “unskilled players” from joining their specific speed run groups. (aka. 5k+ AP or kick.) They feel that this is a measure of how long a person has played, and having such an AP score, they can determine if they are going to be a decent player, in that they at least know their class. But as these people are saying, that you can have a huge amount of AP, but not know a dang thing about dungeons, or have a bunch of different alts so that you are not exactly proficient on any single one of them.

I would personally find it rather amusing if the “grandmaster” dungeoneers, the ones who invented the meta, and discovered the processes used to speed clear the dungeons, were kicked from groups and pre-judged because they had a low AP. But thats just me.

That’s some pretty wild misinformation. I’m disappointed considering that I’ve seen you in the dungeon subform a few times so it’s not like you don’t know it exists. You know that that’s not even close to the mentality of the top dungeon runners.

No skilled dungeon runner there even pretends that AP is a measuring device for speed running. Seems to me you already know this but are trying to spread misinformation to the General Discussion sub.

There’s nothing elite about the AP requirement pug groups. They’re just pug groups. They might be better than people who know nothing about dungeons, but not by much. Clearly not by much if they think AP is a reasonable determinant of skill.

They do actually. A lot of those guys play on alt EU/NA account and DO get kicked for having low AP. They get kicked by random crap pugs. Players who can solo Lupi on a Necro faster than a pug can finish it normally can get kicked for playing a Necro.

Just wanted to put this out here because posts like yours are a big part of why there is so much distrust between these gaming communities. I hope that’s not what you were doing but it sure seems like it to me. Let’s not stir the pot up for the sake of controversy.

Sorry. I should clarify. I used “elite” to refer to the psedo top dungeon running crowd, not the actual top dungeon running crowd. Like you said, pugs who are little better than beginners to dungeons. These are the same type of people who can’t look past the meta, rage and kick if one person isn’t running the perfect build or stacks in the correct corner, or uses a 3 skill instead of the proscribed mash 1 tactic.

There is a difference between the 2. I agree though AP isn’t a measure of skill, but such groups who do for what ever reason feel they must exclude certain players because they don’t fit into what they feel is the only way to run dungeons amd if anyone doesn’t meet their standards then they are some sort of sub part player at best.

robertul.3679:

One day I wanted to buy a car. But then I realized I can just use the subway.
Maybe I make a post about how I saved 30k $!

I saved 15% or more on my car insurance….By putting it in reverse and driving away from the scene of the accident.

OP you didn’t “save” 1330g by not buying that item. You didn’t spend 1330g by not buying that item. There is a difference…

Necro!
Always. Period.

/end thread.

You’re welcome.

evanlegion.7680:

Dakinia.8923:

vpchelko.4261:

How it can be. Player with high AP (i,e, high game activity) but don’t know game?
I suspect only 1 thing – these players buy account from account sellers. I do not respect such things.

I expect that player with +5k AP (maybe less) know everything about game.

Noobies with +10k AP very disappointing.

There are still people that judge player ability by AP? There are so many ways to get AP without doing dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc. Always found it amusing back when I used to play (just came back recently) when people looked for a certain AP level to get into a dungeon group.

AP is a bad measurement but its the only one we have

So instead of basing a judgement about how well a player is using a bad measuring device, why not play with them and see how well they do, then judge them?

The “wannabe elite” dungeon community often uses AP as a measuring device to restrict certain “unskilled players” from joining their specific speed run groups. (aka. 5k+ AP or kick.) They feel that this is a measure of how long a person has played, and having such an AP score, they can determine if they are going to be a decent player, in that they at least know their class. But as these people are saying, that you can have a huge amount of AP, but not know a dang thing about dungeons, or have a bunch of different alts so that you are not exactly proficient on any single one of them.

I would personally find it rather amusing if the “grandmaster” dungeoneers, the ones who invented the meta, and discovered the processes used to speed clear the dungeons, were kicked from groups and pre-judged because they had a low AP. But thats just me.