Guild Wars 2

I think you’ll find a lot of what turns people off from Revenant isn’t the revenant itself, but also the amount of investment in older characters. Starting totally fresh for many people has proven to be a very un-fun chore, especially if fresh world completion and so on isn’t really your cup of tea. Personally, it has put a damper on my “willingness” to reroll anything because trying to unlock elites from a totally fresh character isn’t overly fun, though, in most cases, required, and i know it is for Revenants.

Just some food for thought. Work, old character investments, uniqueness of the class and how utilities work. It was bound to even out eventually, and unfortunately might even be under par because starting fresh feels like a barrier of entry that people can avoid by just playing their mains. I highly double it’s all because they were nerfed out of the Raiding meta, which isn’t even for a majority of players anyways.

I wish they’d do away with Bounce pads and just add some sort of stairs, and combine some of the pillars (connect them). They add some really annoying issues with AI units, various spells and teleports, and often times the bounce pads don’t even work right… I think that’d be my #1 thing.

Then, yeah, remove fall deaths entirely and the glass, increase the width of the hammer room. Ideally, it’d be cool if you could still fall off the hammer room, but land on the map instead.

In general, maps do better with LESS clutter and more open areas, less dips and valleys, because it really screws with a lot of skills.

Surprised they didn’t make it 400 gems… I would have. :P

Alekt.5803:

The most unimpressive build of the elementalist.

That’s not quite fair. It’s just not what most people seem to want. I think it’s a fine build that’s fun to play for those who like Support. Granted, I’d rather do it on my Guardian or Warrior if they were more viable as support, but regardless, it’s not a bad build. Just doesn’t wreck people… Why does everything gotta be burst or bust?

Depends what part of the pvp team you mean overall. Many of the skills people are working on Expansion 2, and new elite specs. Karl, as far as I know, has a large portion of the current balance, and others are taking notes for MM and pre-season.

Unfortunately, they don’t want any large swings mid-season, so expect things to be roughly the same until this season ends.

Anything else spectacular would probably be shelved until said Expansion.

Conncept.7638:

The Wizard’s Hat headgear skin can now be dyed. Use dye remover to return the hat to its previous color.

Never thought I’d see the day, maybe there’s yet hope for some of the other less usable armor pieces.

I’m just hoping this means the hat is coming back soon….

They just need to redo Turrets/Spirit Weapons at this point, and an honorable mention to Minions and Spirits which could use a little bit of redesign as well.

They sure can, and buffed.

Tomiyou.3790:

Like seriously. If you use Executioner’s Scythe and enemy dodges it, why is there still an aoe after it? Most of you will probably call me an idiot, but there is nothing idiotic in counterplay.

Because the field has nothing to do with the strike impact. There are a lot of skills like that. I don’t exactly love where Reaper is atm, but this isn’t really the place to target.

I want a polished support Guardian. <3

Some of the versions came with Gems, and it’s highly likely many who upgraded temporarily spent less on Gems in that period, and they still made higher profits. That’s not a fail, it’s a simple factor of opportunity costs and a little bit of market cannibalism, as the upgrade likely ate some of the gem sales.

Who cares, though, only people (ignorantly) abusing these numbers are out for ill gain. If you don’t like the game then quit. If you do, but want to improve it, give useful suggestions and stay vigilant and non-toxic in discussion. Otherwise you’re doing no good for anyone and proving at least some amount of ignorance.

I’m 24. I use the forums frequently and enjoy working with devs and other passionate players for feedback and game improvements, if you consider that deep engagement. Time and life prevents me from partaking in as many tournies as I would have otherwise liked to, but I still like to stay involved.

JTGuevara.9018:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

JTGuevara.9018:

ronpierce.2760:

KreatE.7612:

much skill such balance
This new mmr is HILARIOUS and i’m loving every second of it. ALTHOUGH, I have had to hard carry plenty of games I would have otherwise lost. But still…. the advantage is so ridiculous on average.

S2 is glorious.

Realistically, when everyone is thrown into a single tier at the start, and MMR matches people to others with relatively close skill, AND they are good enough to make the higher tiers, there’s really nothing that should be all that surprising about it. The new MMR isn’t broken, it’s just different, and does close to no hand-holding, which is why you see outliers with huge win steaks and losses, because realistically, that’s feasible until people get to (or are stuck in) an appropriate division. Unfortunately, people don’t understand that on a system that tries to rank people against one another, there are often clear cut losers, and Amber/emerald might actually be where people belong. It sucks, but someone has to be that person. Luckily for them, at least they can grind their way to Sapphire and maybe even Ruby, but that’s leniency on the developer’s part.

Now, before I get hopped all over, I realize there may be a few unluckies who got swept up in a bad chain of events. I’m going to be honest though, and say I can safely assume that isn’t the majority of people upset with Season 2, which in many cases is just a hard wake up call for people who no longer get paired with people intentionally to carry them (Unranked). And then there are those who tanked their MMR in the past, which I can’t really feel sorry for…

Anyways, as it evens out through the divisions, it’s not as bad as people think. The bigger problem seems to be sore losers and what to do with them, along with wonky class Balance which favors a certain few, likely making it easier for them to get their wins.

blah blah blah STOP defending it. NOT EVEN PROFESSIONAL ESL PLAYERS get 40 wins in a row!! 40 wins?! 40 WINS?! Lol and you say it’s not broken, but “different”?!

HA! Oh it’s different alright, broken in different pieces! You DENIERS always amuse me.

You should get that shift/caps lock key checked, seems to be broken

Hit a nerve didn’t I?

If anyone hit a nerve, I think it was me. :P

KreatE.7612:

much skill such balance
This new mmr is HILARIOUS and i’m loving every second of it. ALTHOUGH, I have had to hard carry plenty of games I would have otherwise lost. But still…. the advantage is so ridiculous on average.

S2 is glorious.

Realistically, when everyone is thrown into a single tier at the start, and MMR matches people to others with relatively close skill, AND they are good enough to make the higher tiers, there’s really nothing that should be all that surprising about it. The new MMR isn’t broken, it’s just different, and does close to no hand-holding, which is why you see outliers with huge win steaks and losses, because realistically, that’s feasible until people get to (or are stuck in) an appropriate division. Unfortunately, people don’t understand that on a system that tries to rank people against one another, there are often clear cut losers, and Amber/emerald might actually be where people belong. It sucks, but someone has to be that person. Luckily for them, at least they can grind their way to Sapphire and maybe even Ruby, but that’s leniency on the developer’s part.

Now, before I get hopped all over, I realize there may be a few unluckies who got swept up in a bad chain of events. I’m going to be honest though, and say I can safely assume that isn’t the majority of people upset with Season 2, which in many cases is just a hard wake up call for people who no longer get paired with people intentionally to carry them (Unranked). And then there are those who tanked their MMR in the past, which I can’t really feel sorry for…

Anyways, as it evens out through the divisions, it’s not as bad as people think. The bigger problem seems to be sore losers and what to do with them, along with wonky class Balance which favors a certain few, likely making it easier for them to get their wins.

sanctuary.1068:

Yea thats what ive said before, sapphire & ruby players are worse than amber players.

I had no issues in Sapphire, 1 or 2 close games, the rest were still blow outs. And I’m a Dragon Hunter (bounce between standard burst trapper and a Honor Semi-support Mender build more recently to avoid getting blown up).

Afraid to start pecking away at Ruby though, just got there. Horror stories and the amount of pips I need is a bit daunting. Not sure if I’m ready for the hassle. :P

Veneratio.1980:

Would y’all prefer a warrior or a DH?

Somehow, I’m starting to think Condi Berserker might surpass DH. I hope not though. Breaks my heart to see DH (and guardian in general) so low in the picks. Sadly, it might not get the love it needs because of how nasty it can be in lower tiers.

Kuya.6495:

Cause people hate dying to condis more than anything in this game. Perhaps sans DH traps that is.

Pretty much. I’m not defending Reapers, I’m actually a bit disappointed with the direction of “fixing” necromancers that they took, however, yes. People HATE seeing their condition bar fill up.

Next to that, traps are just super obvious and one of the few things in the midst of all the chaos that really sticks out. They bring notice to themselves, so when you hit it, you know and it probably kittenes you off.

Scrappers/Druids in my opinion are sort of subtle. They’re super strong, especially Scrapper, but frankly, outside of maybe Hammer 5, they’re just not flashy enough to pull the same kind of hate. They’re also not as gimmicky-one shot, which is another thing that gets under peoples’ skin. (See: Traps) Hell, some of the skills on Scrapper have garbage animations, such as Acid Bomb’s lingering effect.

There’s sort of two types of balance stances (in my eyes). There’s Low-Tier balance, which focuses on gimmicks such as one-shots, high CC, “unkillable” builds, and condition stacking. They tend to focus on specific skills and skills that stand out more tend to get more focus.

Then there’s High-Tier balance based on an overall package/toolset, position in teams, total performance and effectiveness (ability to do something consistently). Much of this doesn’t really pass through a lot of people’s minds, especially if they only ever solo-que (not hating on solo quers).

Sometimes they cross boundaries, like Necromancer which has decent placement and effectiveness and a niche that adds to a team’s overall kit and at the same time fills a condition bar and freaks people out with a second life bar.

Other things, like Engineer, don’t stick out as much because they’re not one shotting you like 3 DH traps on a point might. They get some muttering about being “too sustainable”, but people don’t seem to have the same amount of angst against something that survive too well as they do something that kills too well. The sense of failure is much greater when you die rather than watching a victim squirm away (just to pop back a moment later with the upper hand).

I think you misunderstand why people tell others to get good. We realize better players beat weaker players. The new match making puts like skilled players on a team, and the major opponent decider is the Division.

The reason people say “get good” is because if you expect to dig your way out of a division you need to be better than the other people in the division. If you’re not, you will lose over and over until you happen to get enough pips (lower divisions) or enough of the better players work their way out of the division you’re on.

“Getting good” implies you’re improving yourself and taking charge of your growth. It’s kind of just a rude way of saying what players should be doing anyways, improving themselves to work on higher goals.

d(‘-’d)

Axialbloom.8109:

ronpierce.2760:

Zintrothen.1056:

Obsidian Flesh is actually only 33.5 seconds with the Earth trait. And yes, that is way too short.

While I teeter on this issue. I actually don’t like invuln stomping, I think it’s a cheap tool not everyone has access to, but nevertheless, it can be argued with cooldowns and what-not.

Obsidian Flesh though is absolutely insane. It blows most other damage mitigation skills out of the water and allows full damage while being unable to CC/Blind/etc, on a cooldown that’s close to half of other less effective tools.

My little rant for the day, that skill is a bit crazy.

They could change it, then bump eles up to 15k base hp.

HP pools should have always been 15, 17, 19k and rebalance sustain to be closer together. The 11→19k gap has repeatedly caused issues.

Zintrothen.1056:

Obsidian Flesh is actually only 33.5 seconds with the Earth trait. And yes, that is way too short.

While I teeter on this issue. I actually don’t like invuln stomping, I think it’s a cheap tool not everyone has access to, but nevertheless, it can be argued with cooldowns and what-not.

Obsidian Flesh though is absolutely insane. It blows most other damage mitigation skills out of the water and allows full damage while being unable to CC/Blind/etc, on a cooldown that’s close to half of other less effective tools.

My little rant for the day, that skill is a bit crazy.

grimster.4503:

Hendrix.9763:

Makes a statement about guardians
OMG BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IS SO MUCH BETTER

ronpierce, I don’t care if they’re in the bottom 3 professions, I’m saying HEY, they’re REALLY really really REALLY BORING to fight against. Has nothing to do with OPness or the like.

What if they are boring, its not your choice to play against “fun” classes. We chose what class we want to play, just deal with it or dont play pvp then? Simple as that.

Exactly. It has every amount of relevance. There are a lot of “boring” things to fight. But that doesn’t mean you get to just start flipping switches where it’s not appropriate…

Hendrix.9763:

The meta trapper guardian is probably the most boring profession to play against. They camp on their traps, shoot you with their longbow. But maybe it’s alright, maybe you can ranged them down. Then they pop their 6 or 7 second reflect and then you’re kittened, unless you wanna use evade to run through their traps, taking damage because they’re more than likely using procession of blades.

ArenaNet’s idea of making lasting physically damaging traps that are AoE damage, and much more powerful than the other classes traps, was when I started liking this game less and less.

Not to mention that the PvP matchmaking in this game is TOTALLY screwed.

What if I told you Guardian (trapper) was of the bottom 3 professions in the game right now?

Thaddeus.4891:

ronpierce.2760:

Here’s my 2 cents abkut power creep. First off, yes, I dislike it. There are elements of new elites that are too “full”, especially Scrapper/Revenant, but nevertheless, the other aspect of the power creep is that some of the newer stuff is better designed. Guardian’s base weapons are soooooo outdated these days, that frankly, I’d be more in favor of conforming to the “power creep” a little bit, because ultimately it would mean better design.

What of the new stuff for the guardian is better designed than the old? I mean there were specific stuff in the old guardian that were badly designed for sure like Spirit Weapon and some trait. But in general, I don’t see the new elite as better designed.

For exemple, I think that it was better design when the meta were GS + Mace/X which give you a good rotation to make and in PvP we had medi guardian with Scepter/X and GS or Hammer and Bunker Guardian. There was diversity in build. Now it’s just all about GS, Hammer, longbow and Traps.

Anyway, power creep have nothing to do about the quality of design. You can make something that is well designed, but not a power creep. They could make well designed trait and weapon, without making them more powerful than previous iteration.

I wasn’t specifically talking about DH. There’s a reason DH is not meta, part of that is our “strongest” and best put together things are traps, which are niche at their very core.

I was referring to the uniqueness and complexity of some of the other Elite spec skills and weapons. Especially weapons. While you could tone them down, at its core, a Guardian GS is pretty well put to shame by the Hammer of a Scrapper.

Also, my point is, clunkiness versus shiney new skills are part of that potential for power, as well as the need for all skills to come off as “usable”. Look at sword for example and compare it to Revenant’s sword (though revenant sword has design issues too between single target and multi-target). Blinding Flash is bland, and frankly weak, can’t be used to move forward, like a forward phase retreat, etc. If everything had to be toned down to the level of Hammer/Sword, I wouldn’t be very happy because for the most part, they’re clunky to use and not very fun.

Would also be similar to reverting Warrior Hammer back to it’s slower and immobile former self. There are a lot of things that just need to be reviewed with a modern philosophy lens, in my opinion.

A happy middle ground would be good. Some bumps/fixes/changes to less fluid things, and some nerfs to some things that are a little too encompassing, like the Scrapper hammer.

The other thing is you have to consider how it feels to lose a lot of what you’ve been given. That’s one of the most potentially dangerous aspects of powercreep is that it isn’t easily reversible because it just doesn’t feel good to feel like the Developers are trashing your stuff for some false sense of “balance” or appropriate “power level”. Because for the most part it IS arbitrary. The danger in power creep isnt the power itself, but how much becomes obsolete due to the power creep, especially as developers become tunnel visioned on a specific set of items (such as their fixation on meta builds and elite specializations).

Rome.3192:

kdaddy.5431:

If i was to make a tier list it would go

A- necro- rev- scrapper

B-Druid-Ele

C-DH

D- Mesmer

E-Warrior

F- Thief

What kind of list is that?

A – Scrapper, Herald
B – Reaper, Tempest, Chronomancer, Druid
C – Daredevil
D – Dragonhunter
F – Berserker

New ESL meta will be: Scrapper, Reaper, Tempest, Herald, Chronomancer.

This is the most accurate higher-tier list, Tempest teetering between A and B simply because it helps carries any potential weaknesses Revenants have, and is key to a successful team, even if they are not all that deadly alone.

JETWING.2759:

A – Necro (op condi spam and boon corrupt)
B – DH (lol trap spam and that lb…)
C – Crono/Rev/Temp (too many all in one skills)
D – Scraper/Druid (its OK!)
E – War/Thief (hum… For now, OK!)

This… is disturbing. Stop strafing on traps.

rwolf.9571:

There are already threads like this, there all shoved down the forum because there the minority.

Least vocal, and most likely spending more time in-game actually enjoying it. *

Here’s my 2 cents abkut power creep. First off, yes, I dislike it. There are elements of new elites that are too “full”, especially Scrapper/Revenant, but nevertheless, the other aspect of the power creep is that some of the newer stuff is better designed. Guardian’s base weapons are soooooo outdated these days, that frankly, I’d be more in favor of conforming to the “power creep” a little bit, because ultimately it would mean better design. In order to bring some of the newer stuff down to old standards, it would have to be not only reduced in power, but quality, and I don’t think that is necessary.

All in all, I think there is a happy medium. (similar to how many iterations Mesmer and Necro Scepter has gotten in the past year or so.)

Indure.5410:

Exedore.6320:

Dragonhunter’s only strength is spamming traps on a node in a small fight. It can’t handle ranged pressure well, not does it offer amazing support.

In my experience it handles range pressure as well as any other class does (except for maybe druid).

I disagree mostly due to aspects of our heal. If our pull is dodged or doesn’t pull all the way like it should (happens often), we are at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of ranged sustain. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s certainly not great. Also depends on build. Where I was discussing the fact that unlike some of the Meta builds, DH have to chose between survival/focus protection and actual effectiveness, and it’s a fairly significant difference.

TheBravery.9615:

ronpierce.2760:

TheBravery.9615:

Zantmar.5406:

It’s on ops docutment on wings of resolve, it’s not about u it’s the OP’ docutment, obviously he didn’t play enough pvp, or hates DH secretly and wants to nerf everything DH stands for with making base guard viable as an execuse
And justice spear’s unblockable lets us deal with revs and their little bubble, it rewards u when u can disable people’ sustain if u time it right, should not be removed

Let’s not assume things.

You’re welcome to “feel otherwise”, but I don’t intend to nerf or buff the profession (or any profession that I’m doing balance suggestions on). I’m bringing traits and skills in line of one another so all traits and weapons will see equal use with all things considered.

I just had some angry person vandalize the spreadsheet with no constructive commentary, and opted to just throw personal insults at me (my personal favorite: ball sucking kitten monkey). Oh boy, I imagine the amount of flak I’ll get when I eventually get to engineer. On that note, consider the engineer along with your argument that I shouldn’t realign the elite skills back into reality. Would you be OK with me keeping engineers strong as they are now and buffing everything else in power creep?

Balance is not something that’s easily accomplished and not everyone will agree on any suggestion proposal. Despite this, you’re welcome to collaborate with us and provide constructive feedback so I could share your perspective.

Only major things I have to say, though I’ll check back later, I haven’t gotten to “dig deep” yet.

But I really think the changes hurt Valor. For one, Smiter’s boon should just stay in valor, simply because it goes with the Meditation trait, acts as a decent source of condition removal, and moving it out of that tree hurts meditation builds. Generally speaking, I don’t like Utility specializations to be spread out over multiple trees. It limits build usage and pseudo “forces” trees to be taken together, much like old Minion Master traits which were all over the place. The traits just belong together. (I haven’t checked yet if this has changed, but the general philosophy is something I feel strongly about.)

Secondly, Valor is now a “downed” trait, traits that are generally very unfun to take, then a WvW trait that most people don’t want due to it only really being sort of useful in one game mode. And lastly, a weapon specific trait. For PvP, this makes the minor majors feel really bad for choice, something Honor suffers from a bit. Which isn’t a good feeling.

If you’re just reading through this conversation, I’ve already addressed the problems you pointed out, and yeah check back later when I’m “finished” with the “alpha” (whatever that means), There’s a ton of changes being made over time and it’d be a waste of energy to keep reading it before it’s finished.

Yeah, k can’t read it just yet, I just wanted to throw that out as you did iterations just to get the philosophies out there. d(‘-’d)

Keep it up.

TheBravery.9615:

Zantmar.5406:

It’s on ops docutment on wings of resolve, it’s not about u it’s the OP’ docutment, obviously he didn’t play enough pvp, or hates DH secretly and wants to nerf everything DH stands for with making base guard viable as an execuse
And justice spear’s unblockable lets us deal with revs and their little bubble, it rewards u when u can disable people’ sustain if u time it right, should not be removed

Let’s not assume things.

You’re welcome to “feel otherwise”, but I don’t intend to nerf or buff the profession (or any profession that I’m doing balance suggestions on). I’m bringing traits and skills in line of one another so all traits and weapons will see equal use with all things considered.

I just had some angry person vandalize the spreadsheet with no constructive commentary, and opted to just throw personal insults at me (my personal favorite: ball sucking kitten monkey). Oh boy, I imagine the amount of flak I’ll get when I eventually get to engineer. On that note, consider the engineer along with your argument that I shouldn’t realign the elite skills back into reality. Would you be OK with me keeping engineers strong as they are now and buffing everything else in power creep?

Balance is not something that’s easily accomplished and not everyone will agree on any suggestion proposal. Despite this, you’re welcome to collaborate with us and provide constructive feedback so I could share your perspective.

Only major things I have to say, though I’ll check back later, I haven’t gotten to “dig deep” yet.

But I really think the changes hurt Valor. For one, Smiter’s boon should just stay in valor, simply because it goes with the Meditation trait, acts as a decent source of condition removal, and moving it out of that tree hurts meditation builds. Generally speaking, I don’t like Utility specializations to be spread out over multiple trees. It limits build usage and pseudo “forces” trees to be taken together, much like old Minion Master traits which were all over the place. The traits just belong together. (I haven’t checked yet if this has changed, but the general philosophy is something I feel strongly about.)

Secondly, Valor is now a “downed” trait, traits that are generally very unfun to take, then a WvW trait that most people don’t want due to it only really being sort of useful in one game mode. And lastly, a weapon specific trait. For PvP, this makes the minor majors feel really bad for choice, something Honor suffers from a bit. Which isn’t a good feeling.

Exedore.6320:

I don’t see how DH can be viable in the current environment. It dies far too quickly to focus fire. All it has going for it is trueshot spam from off-point.

Thief, Druid, Condi Mes are all better choices.

• Thief has far great mobility and burst is huge. Has to stay out of team fights.
• Druid is great in small fights and can help out in team fights on the side with SnR
• Condi Mes is great at 1v1 and forcing decaps. The invuln sharing on team fights can be a game-changer when you need to stomp/res.

Dragonhunter’s only strength is spamming traps on a node in a small fight. It can’t handle ranged pressure well, not does it offer amazing support.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. It’s strange to me, a little bit, how squishy DH is. Doesn’t feel super thematic, and the build is fairly selfish outside of control. Most of the base weapons are pretty outdated at this point, and Virtues get totally screwed by random/lucky interrupts.

Hate to say it, but I don’t think we’re totally there while we have to chose between being effective and being able to even stay alive with a tiny bit of focus, which most of the classes except thief/warrior can do significantly better.

Erm, I STRONGLY do not support removal of Smiter’s Boon for a WVW fall trait… Strongly. :S

Mm, can’t agree with outright removing pip loss, or they might as well put the wings on a reward track and close ranked. At best, prevent tier loss in Ruby too, but even that is a stretch of you ask me… The last two before Legendary aren’t supposed to be easy/grinded. It’s what sets people apart.

Shylock.4653:

Zenith.6403:

How can elementalist chain buffs endlessly while other professions have them under long cooldown skills?

Revs have much easier access to boons then Eles.
Guards have protection boon on their auto-attack.
…

Lol that’s a rather cringe-worthy comment. :S
Hammer on guardian is not very good, and the auto attack is highly impractical.

Shovel Face.4512:

ronpierce.2760:

Guardian are great for lower tiers, but they really really taper off the higher you go. The trick bag is too narrow and Support Ele and Scrappers with hammer/Bulwark basically kill any reason to exist lol. Kinda makes me sad because I much prefer guardian but I may have to end up finishing the season as Reaper of the wall gets too hefty.

I’d argue thief has a better place in the Meta that guardian does. Major difference is that it’s significantly harder to reach that potential, it seems, as there are relatively few impactful thieves/daredevils.

Still better than warrior though. d(‘-’d)

Coincidentally, both Guardians and warriors have the same issue. Both are bad at sustaining outside of cooldowns. Warriors have hefty upfront burst and mitigation and Guardians have some heft up-front healing, but both are pressured out of cooldowns pretty easily and after that it’s an easy focus.

DH is actually pretty strong. I forget which build it is but its a tanky DH that has nothing but blocks and invulns. Does decent damage to. An Engi and Rev took a while to down him but of course, he got rezed and filled his HP back to 100% and fight continued.

DH can be built to “sustain” or it can be built to be effective. It really can’t have both unlike the bigger names. You lose a lot of what makes DH even worth having over just another one of the Core-4 of you start taking Renewed Focus and all of the similar traits and running Paladin’s. If you go to that extent, yeah you can sort of sustain longer. But you’re not really as effective and certainly don’t set yourself apart from a Scrapper.

Personally, I think Mesmer and Thief both have a better chance that Guardian. Thief can be useful, even stated by a few themselves, it just takes a significant amount more skill than the others.

Condition Mesmer is actually already considered a 5th. Power shatter has died out, but Condi Mesmer was a decently strong player in ESL, and can be rather potent.

DH is great up to a point but they just don’t bring enough to a team that isn’t negated too easily by the enemy having an Ele on their team, and are possibly a bit too predictable. They’re also too vulnerable when they’ve blown their cooldowns.

I’d say they work better than warriors and MOST thieves, but I’m not sure anyone would be rushing to grab a guardian anytime soon, honestly. Their best quality from my perspective is controlling and setting up burst on team fights. I can often shape a team fight, but with any amount of Support, after Maw/Lb5, things become significantly more stale, and you end up mostly just supplying DPS.

Guardian are great for lower tiers, but they really really taper off the higher you go. The trick bag is too narrow and Support Ele and Scrappers with hammer/Bulwark basically kill any reason to exist lol. Kinda makes me sad because I much prefer guardian but I may have to end up finishing the season as Reaper of the wall gets too hefty.

I’d argue thief has a better place in the Meta that guardian does. Major difference is that it’s significantly harder to reach that potential, it seems, as there are relatively few impactful thieves/daredevils.

Still better than warrior though. d(‘-’d)

Coincidentally, both Guardians and warriors have the same issue. Both are bad at sustaining outside of cooldowns. Warriors have hefty upfront burst and mitigation and Guardians have some heft up-front healing, but both are pressured out of cooldowns pretty easily and after that it’s an easy focus.

Harmadda.5971:

ronpierce.2760:

Phaeton.9582:

lead.7543:

Phaeton.9582:

good luck in Kenya!

Is that meant to be an insult with racist connotations?

?

Don’t mention a non-white country without expecting to be racist, silly. :P

Well I don’t get the Kenya reference.
You want to explain since you do?

I don’t either, but what does it matter? If he said “Enjoy London” would anyone bat an eye? Likely not. Just sort of shows how tense we’ve become.

Constantin.5608:

From a different thread, but brilliant:

Fivedawgs.4267:
You know why league. Smite or Dota are popular or enjoyable (subjective term)? Because they use the 50/50 algorithm; they match against people you have a 50% chance of winning or losing; unlike what we have now, where one side is GROSSLY FAVORED over the other.

And that’s why there’s unranked.

Was it in Stronghold?

Edit: I guess probably not since it was a flat 500 win. I guess they were just upset that your team worked together. People come up with all kinds of reasons to be mad when they lose here.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol, you are wasting your time on Ron; he won’t know how faulty the system is until he get hurt. Anywyas 2ho think that match 10 against 5 is ok is down right kittened. Plain and simple.

I’ve recognized some issues. I’ve offered solutions for now and later. I’ve only pointed out flaws in peoples’ arguments on how it “should” be according to some. People don’t like me right now because I’m not babying them, but there are answers even now. People just don’t want to hear them. Those parts of any of my comments are ignored and people want to get kitten over the fact that I say a MAJORITY of the people caught in this tailspin were bad to begin with.

Seeing as how 50% of the players will be below average, I’m willing to bet I’m right. People frequently think they’re better than they are. Now, I know that wouldn’t be everyone, but I’ve tried offering solutions, alternatives, and future plans, most of which gets ignored because people are to frustrated at the “here and now”, and don’t want to play with anyone else. I can’t help that.

But no, I’m not particularly nice to people who think 10 paragraphs of caps lock is necessary.

Best way is probably Unranked and watching others. But if some people express mechanical issues, I will offer 1v1s on characters they need help against (that I can play at least somewhat well), and keep doing them until they figure things out. I’ve seen a lot of improvements in people.

Similarly, if I can’t beat something I just find one in a duel room and duel them until I either get better or need a break. :P

Biggest step to people getting help is not being afraid to ask. I know many other than myself that enjoys helping people who ask for it. Some shy away from offering it because offering help to someone who doesn’t want it is often met with hostility.

Eater of Peeps, you know you can type a response under the quote right? You don’t have to quote, post reply, and then post a separate reply to the quote. Just write it underneath.

Phaeton.9582:

lead.7543:

Phaeton.9582:

good luck in Kenya!

Is that meant to be an insult with racist connotations?

?

Don’t mention a non-white country without expecting to be racist, silly. :P

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?

Salamander.2504:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

+1

System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.

I do love this. But if all the “entitled” folk stop playing PvP you wont get your easy wins. Then you’ll start to lose games. Then you’ll be the ones complaining the system is not fair.
snip

No, not really. I’m already in a division (ruby) where the matchups are difficult, and I’m not complaining. No free wins here. The matchups are fair now, presumably because I’ve approached my appropriate division. System working as intended tbh.

And this is just it. It does take time to reach that point. And as people like you, and me, and whoever else, moves out of amber/emerald, they will get easier.

This is why I keep saying, this is not a system issue, but it IS a Season 2 issue, for a little while.

Beyond Season 2, we can only hope ANet handles early Division placement better than throwing everyone back into Amber, or do something to REALLY speed up early rank pip gain on win streaks (though for everyone’s sake, I propose just bumping division).

Link.1049:

Last season for comparison I was happy making it to Ruby. Given that there are 6 divisions you’d think that average players could reasonably expect to fall somewhere in the middle there, so either Sapphire or Ruby. What I’m seeing is that many people are getting artificially pushed down at the entry gates.

Yeah, by the end. People are too fast, and assume because they are not already sapphire/ruby that its flawed. Seasons do not last a week. That’s why there is so much commenting on “let it flesh out, let people climb tiers” because until people get those arbitrary pips, they’re going to be facing people in lower tiers. There isn’t much else that can be done about it. As people get put into their rightful divisions, as if fleshes out, the lower tiers will be less packed with all levels of players. People simply do not move out of the lower tiers fast enough, when they deserve to be higher.

Hence, again, why I said in Season 3 they should have some type of system for early Division bumps based on where people end in Season 2, that way that curve is evened out much much faster.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

IM IN EMERALD NOT AMBER. I PLAY META, HOW NICE FOR U THAT UVE HAD A NICE EXP.

JUST FINISHED A GAME AFTER A 3 GAME WINNING STREAK WHERE THE GUY DELIBERATELY DCED AND THEN RECONNECTED IN & “LOL” & SAID “IDK IF UR NOT GUD.”

LOST A PIP! YAY! I KNOW, MY SKILL, RT? I KNOW, I should have been able to carry my team to victory against 4 reapers, but I couldn’t, even w/ my DH meta that I am practicing so hard (even in unranked).

O well, I just gotta GET BETTER.

What does kittens DCing/throwing games have to do with Matchmaking? That’s been a problem since forever in every game mode… Whole different beast and should have stricter punishment. That I could agree with.

Just do Unranked for a bit until it dies down, keep yourself freshened up, get some confidence back. Honestly, not being sarcastic.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

ronpierce.2760:

Lol Easter of Peeps, I’m sure you’re an amazingly skillful player.
And don’t at all seem like someone who would give up and rage at the team if they are down 50 points.

He’s frustrated because of people like you. You are clearly not very well informed and choose to ignore all the genuine frustration that a lot of people are experiencing with the current matchmaking design.

Please just go and play the game… why tickle someone’s catastrophe? People are upset that their favourite game mode is nolonger fun for them. You seem to be enjoying that. Please just close your browser and go and enjoy the game.

No, it affects me because what people are upset about is that it’s not what already exists, and is playable… Unranked still exists and it is for people who want totally fair match ups. Unranked finally does that it should, which is move players up who deserve to move up, where as 50/50 balancing absolutely does not do that and is no way a platform for ranking or competitive play. It’s a platform for FAIR and leisurely play. But that exists for those who wants it. Why are people even playing Ranked anyways? Is everyone really upset over this promised back piece?