Guild Wars 2

The Warrior problem is complex and is a result of various changes to the game and pointless nerfs to the class made by Anet over the past year.

Our problems also differ throughout various game modes. As far as I know, PvE players are somewhat satisfied with Berserker performance.
In sPvP there is currently no place for Warrior or Berserker in top tier level of play. Yes, I can make my Warrior work in unranked arenas, I still have 50%+ W/L ratio with it, but that doesn’t really prove anything.
WvW is where Warriors took the hardest hit. There is absolutely no place for them in current meta anymore. To me it really feels like Anet thinks that Warriors can’t get any nice, impactful skills, so even if they come up with a good idea they slap it right on to Guardians or Revenants.

Guardians for example already had access to shadowsteps, yet they also gained a 800 range leap that heals like kitten and clears condies. On top of that they gained an insanely good pull. What gives? Why can’t warriors have such things, because IMO they are the class that needs such things the most. Especially pulls. What kind of a fighter class has no pulls at its disposal?!

Our gap closers are still bugged and useless…
The amount of ranged and AoE skills in this game has gone waaay over the top, you can see that clearly in WvW. Everyone is pirateshipping in there like crazy, there is hardly any space for Warrior in such game anymore.

I can’t even understand the logics behind having so many ranged AoE skills that will also apply some kind of hard/soft CC. Applying such CC is way too easy compared to how much work a warrior has to put into CCing/damaging people. How do you justify that ranged AoE CC is easier to apply and more reliable than melee CC on a single target? This is a huge design fault imo and it’s breaking the game balance very badly, mostly for Warriors…
The problem with ranged AoE is also that it’s way too easy to stack on one single point. Melee damage can never be stacked as easily and will never be prevalent to stacking AoE ranged damage.

Our sustain is still kitten and it will stay kitten, no matter how many Defy Pains and Dead or Alives they slap into our traits. Just like slapping damage modifiers into our traits doesn’t really help us at killing our enemies. WE LACK TOOLS! These lazy attempts of balancing just make me think that Anet don’t understand at all, what the real problem with this class is.

Improve adrenaline mechanic, give us sustain through adrenaline mechanic that every warrior will have access to, no matter what traitlines we take, increase our adrenaline gain, get rid of adrenaline loss as soon as we leave combat,…

I could go on, but it’s pointless because there’s just too many things that have gone wrong. It cannot just be fixed, it has to be redesigned. I thoroughly agree with the excellent post made by emkelly.2371 above me anyway. Well written, pure truth.

This thread turned out to have some of the best thoughts on current problems of Warrior class, so I’ll bump it up a bit.

With that being done, I want ANet (in case we actually get lucky enough to get them to read this) to understand the depth of problems that this class is currently facing. Just slapping more damage into our traits/weapon skills will not solve our problems. Nor will our problems get solved by baselining Fast Hands trait, which is a very popular idea here.

This class already has too much reliance on certain traits and utility skills. The core of the class has to be improved – adrenaline mechanic has to open up more options for us to survive and attack without having to trait for it. Weapon skills are slow, clunky and compared to some new ones that other specs got, very unimpactful and some of them way too glitchy (looking at you Rush, Savage leap)…

It’s way too easy for some classes out there nowadays to deal damage compared to warrior. On top of that our adrenaline gain is just simply pathetic, while adrenaline loss is brutal…

Couldn’t put it any better myself, Alex Eternity.

Well written.

Thaelias.7432:

Yeah issues with zerker:
6. New utility is almost all ignored because it’s physicals 2.0. Same problems as before.

I would even argue that new utilities are even worse than physicals (except Outrage).
I mean with physicals you can at least see some potential in skills if they were fixed up a bit. Like if Bollas weren’t constantly obstructed by random non-existing things. Rage utility skills however… I have no idea what they were thinking about when they were making those.

I would love to use some offensive moves on my Warrior utility bar, but as long as we have to rely on boring stances to survive that ain’t gonna happen.

And I hope Anet doesn’t find the solution in slapping more “awesomeness” into our traits again. Something has to be done with Warrior as a whole to give it more sustain. And that something will probably have to be built into the Adrenaline mechanic itself.
That would be step 1.

Step 2. would be fixing our utility skills and Step 3. would be updating our weapon skills.

Anyway, I’ve dumped my warrior for now, because Dragonhunter and Revenant are just so much more fun and effective to play with…

Sad, sad ,sad.

Indeed undoing adrenaline nerf is probably the first step on a very long journey to make Warrior a viable and enjoyable class again. Until then I’ll just get depressed every time I log into the game. No problem.

Thuggernaut.1250:

samo.1054:

Warrior would be much easier to fix, if not for all the insane powercreep that happened to most other classes in this game in the past year…

Again, I don’t want warrior buffs. I want warrior stuff to function and I want other classes toned down.

Powercreep ruins the fun in this game.

Buffing Warrior now isn’t “power-creep,” it’s just restoring Warrior to some fraction of its original power.

People were dropping 27-30K+ Hundred Blades easily at launch, unleashing insane Frenzy Killshots and unbelievable Eviscerates. Nothing you could do to Warrior now would even bring it close to how powerful it was at launch.

Even if you undid every nerf to Warrior from launch onwards, it still wouldn’t be as powerful, because of the conversion of the old Critical Damage % stat into Ferocity.

I’m getting tired of these spurious “power-creep” arguments, because anyone arguing that Warrior buffs now are “power-creep” have forgotten how many nerfs led up to this point.

If you want to see real “power-creep,” read the June 23 patch notes on how many Mesmer traits got baselined into the class. Justify those buffs, and then somehow justify keeping all of the Warrior nerfs intact at the same time.

Fair enough. Maybe I used too strong words when I said “I don’t want Warrior buffs.” However I did follow it up by saying that I want warrior to function.

Yes, Warrior was subjected to strong and pointless nerfs for a while. Most of those nerfs when I look at them, I wonder what exactly were guys at Anet thinking.

Currently the class is so deep down in kittenhole it’s hard for me to even come back here to these topics and make a post that would explain everything well… Honestly I’m just not the best at explaining things. But even if I managed that, I could barely hope that someone from Anet would actually read and ponder upon it. I find it pointless to try and explain things here, when I see just how clueless Anet obviously was when they were nerfing Warrior and making some of the skills/traits of the new specs. It makes me wonder, do they even have a person that regularly plays Warrior in PvP/WvW/PvE? Do they honestly find Warrior useful there? Do they ever compare various classes at various roles, similar skills,…?

-What’s with triple nerf to adrenaline mechanics?
a) loose adrenaline on miss
b) fast adrenaline decay
c) adrenaline decay as soon as you leave combat mode

This was all done in one single patch and it was WAY too much. It’s even more obvious now that Berserker spec is out. BTW didn’t they say they would only make small adjustments? Well this wasn’t a small adjusment, especially since it’s not just one utility skill or trait, IT’S A FREAKING CLASS UNIQUE MECHANIC!

And with that nerf also came another stupidity: The functionality of Cleansing Ire:
- You miss, you loose adrenaline, you don’t cleanse your condies…. UNLESS you’re using Longbow. Wait what? You know… I doubt Anet said something like: “Ok Longbow is a unique weapon, so we will let them cleanse their condies via Cleansing Ire even if they miss the burst.”

No no, this is simply a result of the fact that Anet was unable to make a simple fix to longbow, so they let it stay the way it was. And that’s actually the right way. Conditions HAVE to get cleansed by Cleansing Ire even if we miss with burst skill!

Thiefs still shadowstep to their target, go into stealth and steal boons even if they are blind when they execute the Steal. So yeah… I would at least expect some consistency, but there’s none to be found with Anet. Not even within the same class…

-Warrior lacks tools: Since we are the most melee reliant class in a game where ranged damage is winning fights I would at least expect Warriors to have the best access to pulls. Well we don’t. Dragonhunter got it, Engi got it,…

-Same reason as with pulls I would expect us to have access to Superspeed since we can’t shadowstep like some other classes. We get no access to Superspeed, Scrapper gets it.

-Our Weapon skills are slow and outdated and hard to land.
Backbreaker compared to Drop the hammer or Thunderclap anyone? Am I the only one seeing a problem here?
Bladetrail so slow I can almost catch my own blade?
Rush missing targets?
Bull’s charge same kitten…
Axe offhand, what’s that?
Mace offhand horrible

-What’s the point of physical utility skills, really?
-What’s the point of Rage utility skills? Except Outrage they are all SO kitten TERRIBLE!
-Shouts and Warhorn: unjustified nerf when trait system patch came. There goes another one of our viable team support.
-Stances: Boring, huge cooldown, when they are up you’re immortal for 5 seconds, when they are on cooldown you’re sitting duck. Bad design. Yet a must for Warriors, because without two Defy Pains we basically just melt anywhere we go. Just another indication of bad design. The class NEEDS to be playable and able to defend even with its utility skills on cooldown! Otherwise the combat in this game just turns into a matter of who had more utility skills available at the start of the fight. Do we want that? I don’t.

Sustainability problems coupled with our reliance to stances with huge cooldown just scream one thing to me: We are being betrayed by our unique class mechanic – Adrenaline mechanic. It was way oversimplified by Anet. Adrenaline mechanic is what should be giving us things such as reduced condition duration, reduced incoming damage, condi cleansing,… With that we could get access to some more exciting utility skills. We could actually get to use Physical utility skills if we could support ourselves through adrenaline mechanic. Right now there is just no way on earth for Warriors to play with Physical or Rage utility skills. With that in mind we need access to reliable gap closers and pulls, superspeed,…

This is becoming a wall of text that most people won’t read anyway, I could go on but I’ll stop here…

Warrior would be much easier to fix, if not for all the insane powercreep that happened to most other classes in this game in the past year…

Again, I don’t want warrior buffs. I want warrior stuff to function and I want other classes toned down.

Powercreep ruins the fun in this game.

Caedmon.6798:

I don’t mind the decay tbh,it wouldn’t matter much if our actual adren gain was higher.,which atm is absolute kitten if you try to run without cleansin,rage sig or any other adren gain trait.I think adren gain in combat or when being hit needs to be base.

I can also agree to that. It would make it feel much more natural…
Adrenaline gain atm is complete garbage definitely.

this is what I have been saying for months. They triple-nerfed adrenaline in one single patch:

1.Loose adrenaline on miss
2.Adrenaline decay speed significantly increased
3.Adrenaline decay starts as soon as you exit combat mode

THAT doesn’t really go well with the philospohpy that they said they will use when it comes to balancing the game. “Small changes, just fine tuning and then observing how things work out.” -HAHA, yeah right!

So yeah, adrenaline mechanic was way overnerfed and now that berserker is out it’s becoming even more obvious. All classes have their strongest hits available as soon as the battle start, but we cant even preload it 5 seconds before the fight, because by the time we hit the enemy for the first time, 50% of it will have already decayed.

The only solution to this is that decay starts with 20 second delay. Slower decay or whatever other theories out there will not fix this problem. Period.

They have sunken this class way way too deep with mindless and unjustified nerfs…

Exactly what yanoch said. Rev can just laugh at Warrior right now in any aspect of the game. The abuse of Coalescence of Ruin in WvW is real. And how could it not be!? 2 seconds cooldown on 1200 range and can hit for 6k+. WTF, for real, are they kittening kidding?! On top of all that you stack boons on your party like a crazy motherkitten.

Warrior never came even close to such awesomeness. Never will…

As I said in some other topic – Warrior is target practice, a class that everyone can mock with countless shutdown mechanics available in this game.

Ranged damage is all that matters anymore in this game, sadly.

Yes, of course he’s right, and those are also the things that we have all been mentioning countless times on these forums.

But it’s good that more people keep voicing these opinions, maybe some day Anet will listen to what we’re actually saying :P

Yes, Berserker has been buffed now. That opened up some optional builds that might be viable, but it doesn’t really solve any of our actual problems…

I may turn out as a whiny kitten too. Yes, the changes are OK, but it’s not what I was looking for.

As I said some time ago, I wasn’t looking for warrior buffs, as much as some “practicality” changes. Call it quality of warrior life.

I was more looking for nerfs to other classes and specs. The powercreep in GW2 lately… is real.

They could buff Warrior all they want, it doesn’t solve the main problem i see with the game balance atm.

I main war (altho i have just as much spvp matches on mesmer and thief i consider war my main). I don’t want War OP, nor UP, I want the game to be balanced and I want this scary powercreep gone. Difference.

NERF ALL THE CLASSES!! o/

I see Warrior’s problems much much deeper than just recent Berserker traitline not being viable due to the fact that warriors are simply locked into taking at least two others.

The power creep that happened in this game basically since trait system revamp along with stat changes, is insane. Most classes improved with those changes, most warrior builds on the other hand suffered a hard blow.

Secondly, the amount of blinds, dodges, aegises, insane ranged damage increased, Warrior’s gets not additional tools to fight all that. We still have to get in close and fight through all that, while we simply melt to everything that’s being thrown at us. Ranged damage is wining the game right now.

The fact that Warrior has 0 sustain outside of two mandatory Defy Pains says a lot to me. And my logical conclusion would be that we are being betrayed by our own class mechanic – adrenaline. Or better yet, the person that in charge of making it useful (or as it seems atm, that person is in charge of making it useless instead).

Warrior feels like a target dummy that attacks back with with basic attacks and a bad AI, while you throw your CC at it, to see if you can avoid all of its attacks for 15 seconds straight, a really bad basic mechanic miniboss at the start of the game or at the end of tutorial area. Yeah, it’s really that bad.

This game moved on, the warrior did not. Adrenaline mechanic is uninspired and basic, it brings nothing to the class, especially in the light of current state of the game, where power creep is real and where it seems that everything they add to the game just hurts warrior furthermore. This game is becoming too deadly, players melt too fast, which is leaving the combat feeling shallow and I can’t even imagine how confused new players are feeling in all this.

There is no place for a warrior in the current game state, and solving our problems with stances that give us short lasted immunities against all the crap that is flying around in this game is no solution to it… Or it might be a very very lazy one, which will result in a very boring gameplay and a class that is still completely unviable for 60 seconds and maybe just maybe if all goes to plan, it will be OP for 5 seconds. But only if you’re lucky

Think what you want to do with this class, do something and do it fast…

Blaze Breaker really leaves a lot to be desired. That skill for me has no personality or application whatsoever.

Flames of War is a decent skill. Instead of adding new things to it, I would probably rather see its cooldown reduced 5 seconds…

I was working on a variant that’s quite similar to this, but more adapted to my taste of playing warrior. Might share it today when i get from work if i feel like it’s finalized. The core of it is quite similar to this tho…

choovanski.5462:

warrior is looking terribly simple and lacklustre in the face of these elite specs, and rev. it’s just so limited and basic.

I noticed that all game developers share this wrong idea about Warrior. The fact that they don’t use any kind of magic, obviously makes developers think that their skills should be dull, ineffective,nothing special. Just some guy swinging a really large hammer and shouting nonsense while he does it.

Everyone else is using magic, so they can do all kinds of awesome things… Even thiefs get a supernice bullet that makes them shadowstep and blind their foe, but warrior gets a bunch of glitchy charge skills, that never hit a moving target. Sometimes they even end up missing a standing target, lol.

As a warrior I dreamed about getting some skills that were basically given to Revenant just now… Too fancy for Warrior i guess.

YuiRS.8129:

All of the skills are weak and outdated due to the power creep.

This exactly.

But anyway. I want to point out here, that I don’t really want Warrior to get insanely buffed, to match other classes in the game, what I want is to normalize this insane power creep that happened basically since the trait system update. At that point all classes got stronger (Warrior got weaker), damage went up because of the stats,…

Make changes to war for their “quality of life”, but there’s tons of serious toning down to do on almost all other classes. Compared to 1 year ago, this game became so ridiculously “deadly”, WvW raids are insane, there’s WAY too much strong, fast, reliable, easy to execute ranged damage in this game atm. Melee range is becoming completely subpar when it comes to dealing damage, stabi changes that happened also don’t help with that at all.

It really does make me wonder if Anet even understand what they’re doing with their game, do they wonder about consequences when they put something new into the game?

WHAT is Warrior’s place in this game atm?! Is this game becoming Range Wars 2? Where is this kind of game balancing leading to?

I’m really really sad about all this.

Rev could also teach Warrior a couple of Hammer tricks.

Coalescence of Ruin on 2 seconds cooldown. That skill is almost as good as Hammer Shock, lol.

Drop the hammer, 5 target 1200 range AoE KD on 15 seconds cooldown,
Backbreaker single target, melee range, 30s cooldown.
lol

I’m sure someone will say “Heeey but the cast time!!!”. Oh please shut up, will ya?!

And I won’t even go into the ability of stacking various buffs for your party etc,…

Let’s everyone just delete our warriors and be done with this…

Berserker Hammer burst pulls all enemies within 1200 range radius to the point of impact, they get stunned and immobilized for 3 seconds. Gain 7% damage increase for each pulled foe and 6 seconds of quickness.

I especially see a problem with the fact that we can’t really be competitive without taking taking 2 vulnerability skills. Which are also completely passive and boring.

All classes have their own mechanics that let’s them play defensively when they need defense. Warrior on the other hand has to rely all his survivability on a passive, boring stances, that fill up his utility bar, so there’s nothing really exciting that you can do with your utilities either.

I have always been saying that adrenaline mechanics should serve wider warrior’s needs, like it did in GW1. F1-F5, give us skills that let us use our adrenaline based on the situation. Let us use adrenaline to reduce incoming damage, increase attack speed, cleanse conditions,… or whatever, by consuming our adrenaline. That’s my humble opinion. That would make the class so much more fun and active experience to play.

But whatever…

Wow, are you like… forced to play the game? I don’t understand all this QQ about these hero points. Both sides overreacting. First the impatient people that acted like their characters are utterly useless until they get 100% of their elite spec, and now on the other side all the people QQing about how their time was wasted, which is even bigger bullkitten.

Wasted time? Why do you guys play the game if you feel like something as simple as lowered spec unlock threshold made your time wasted?! Really for the life of me, I can’t wrap my mind around that kind of logic. What exactly is the attitude that brings you to play the game?

Myself, I came home from work, I opened up a beer and went playing HoT, not giving much of a kitten about anything else aside just… playing the game! Basically I didn’t even know what my progress to unlocked spec was until yesterday evening when I opened up the hero panel and saw that I have 280 hero points to spend on my spec. I also have to note here, that I’m not even a player that would do PvE unless I lack money or there is new content. I spend all my time in WvW (guild raids 5 days a week) and sPvP (the rest of my free time).

So just a simple suggestion for everyone. Do try to enjoy the game you’re playing, instead of trying to rush everything for whatever unimportant reason and also, they say, patience is a virtue.

Joel you’re freaking amazing! I’m so happy someone finally realized that the current movement+mouse control did not fit the actino style combat that this game has.

I’ve been trying so hard to make the game play like this for years in autohotkey, but there are certain hurdles that one just can’t fix without having the access into the the code of the game itself. So, thanks!

Can’t wait to test this out, and after I take this baby for a ride, I’ll make sure to post some feedback back to you.

I’m kittening my pants just from watching the character actually turn towards the camera and run in that direction full speed, not to mention everything else you’ve shown on the stream

StickAndMove.6419:

Also, while we’re here, what do you all think might be some disadvantages to using this new mode compared to the current?

I know it would be more difficult to use ground-targeted abilities behind or to the side of our characters but if that’s all, then we could just use the toggle for this one circumstance.

What you mentioned may be the case, but I think that if you are used to action cameras from other games it won’t be that hard to execute anyway. Remember that now the character runs full speed in all directions so even throwing the granades behind you will not be hard with some good maneuvering. I think this will mostly be a case of getting used to doing it a little differently.

Outside of that I think Action camera was made really well by Joel from what I could see and it carries many advantages over normal mode, at least for those of us that have gotten used to action camera games over the years.

I’ve been a FPS player for a decade and GW2 camera/movement never felt natural to me…

What other effect this might have tho is that melee characters will be kited of (even) easier now, which may be a bit of bad news especially for Warrior…

Simple solution: Remove Arrowcarts from the game, and no one will be angry at them not functioning right anymore. While you’re at it also remove siege golems and fix Treb splash damage so that it doesn’t hit through the gate.

Then we can start talking about strategic siege placement. Although I would rather see that (National EU) servers wouldn’t sit with zone blobs in their Garrisons, building ACs in panic, but rather push out and fight,… which is what this game is all about, is it not?

I also felt something was wrong, but I didn’t go testing the radius itself.

Nice catch.

How about not removing anything and just add that kitten thing that they want to add…

I like both – Transmute charges and Tomes.

Or let us pick what we want…

BrickFurious.7169:

Not to mention how exploitable this is. Enemy spies with free accounts on your server could organize en masse to feed points to their real team. How would you go about preventing that?

lol, I hope you’re not serious here. There are ~250k points that a server that is anywhere close to winning will collect over the week. You think people would bother rolling up fake accounts to give points to their servers by constantly dying?! Right, good luck making a difference! I’ll make sure I call those guys if sea level drops at some point, I’m sure they will come rushing in with a bucket and start spilling water back into the sea to level it all up again… If you know what I mean. There are 100 other things that people with secondary accounts could exploit. But they don’t. Because it’s pointless.

For everyone – there was a test period of 1 month when PPK was active, about exactly 1 year ago. My feeling was, that it was actually very positively accepted, at least on top tier EU servers. None of your concerns actually came true back then, but PPK points were a good thing for fighting servers to make up for some difference that they loose by not being willing to cap PvD paper towers and keeps in rotation….

So if PPT servers can have their PPT, small groups that run/port away at the sight of an enemy, it’s only fair that fighting servers get their PPK.

choovanski.5462:

I’ve been using shouts on my warrior in pvp for about a year and a half. there’s one thing the build really lacks when you go all shouts. you’re a tanky bunker but you can only safe-stomp in rampage. if you slot stab in a utility slot you lose a great traited shout. so it’s gotta have stab. it’s gotta let you stomp, it’s gotta be the final piece of the shout warrior puzzle.

im thinking

RELENTLESS
30 second cd
4stacks of stab for 7sec
5sec of protection

now you can stomp
now you can cover to the limit with stab

They wouldn’t do that. Firstly because warrior already has a lot of access to stabi and because it’s way too similar to “Stand your ground!”.

I would much rather see Warriors getting a new useful offensive shout. Something that would be useful to warriors and to their parties and does not yet exist. Unfortunately Guardians took the Quickness, but maybe Warriors could get some access to super speed. 3-4 seconds of super speed for example, along with next attack having 100% of being critical hit for you and 5 of your allies.

Think such a shout would work in all game modes, it would also probably bring melee pushes back to WvW, since they got rarer with stabi changes patch… And melee push is what Warriors are all about, right?

Crossaber.8934:

Zephyra.4709:

Surely I am not the only one that feels like Warrior is missing out on an elite shout of sorts, let’s face it – Guardian was blessed with one, and a very interesting one it is.

What do YOU think would make a good ELITE SHOUT skill for the Warrior if ANet were to ever implement one?

Some people have suggested a shout that applies Taunt; I deem that fitting for a Warrior of all professions.

Feel free to discuss this topic amongst yourselves.

I have suggested an elite shout that’s similar to guardian “FMW” long before “FMW” appeared.

Charge!
5sec AoE quickness, 60sec CD

you know what, it was being commented useless, no need and overpowered by warrior community back then.

And i still think guardian has stolen my warrior elite shout…

I do agree here, FMW is definitely a shout that should be done for warrior. But that’s how GW2 is, other classes get the cool stuff that warrior should have, and warriors get scraps, boring skills, useless skills, boring mechanics, etc…

Throdin.8061:

A long duration taunt (3 seconds seems fit for an elite) shout seems like a fun idea. Position yourself near a group of enemies, shout, then hundred blades.

Considering Guardians got one that gives awesome boons (and we already have a banner), it’d make sense for the warrior’s shout to be an offensive one like the reaper’s.

Along with taunt you could throw things like weakness and vulnerability in.

“I Challenge You!”

What happens when all enemies around you have stabi? You end up Hundred Blading empty air. Would make Warrior look really silly doing HB in the middle of battlefield and everyone just walking by, looking at him thinking “this dude has issues yo…”

Any kind of shout with hard CC is way too unreliable to be useful anywhere but PvE… Just my opinion.

Because “WvW players are really into PvE”, so that’s where they should go to get good rewards…

AoE damage is way too easy to apply and stack from high range and in a concentrated point. Stabi changes made it only worse, pirateshipping is boring and not enjoyable.

All true, but I also know they won’t change anything about it. WvW will never be the reason Anet would change something as big in the game

I have to say tho, I do find it hard to justify with any kind of logic, why AoE attacks should have 1200 or even 900.

All the nerfs in Tactics trait line that came with the trait system change (warhorn nerf, vigorous shouts,…) were completely uncalled for.The whole Tactics trait line is a bad joke nowadays. In WvW raids I run tactics because it’s the only half-useful thing that warriors can take for their raid support, but all in all it’s just a shell of its former self and basically the only real reason Warriors are staying in those raid comps is the godkitten Battle Standard.

In sPvP I also just don’t want to run the new shoutbow, even if all the top teams were running it… It’s just… no. Again even in sPvP Battle Standard probably carrying most of warrior’s weight in that team composition.

So can we please get back some decent team support in Tactics trait line, like we used to have, or will we keep getting unnecessary nerfs to the class?

I’m sorry friend, but posting a screenshot of damage from a skill that roots you and has a 3 second channel time proves absolutely nothing.

Shiny numbers really mean nothing in this case.

Consider that we don’t all PvE. GS has no place in WvW raids for example, it’s a joke there, and it also is still not as widely used in high tier spvp. I really can’t remember when was the last time a warrior landed full HB on me, but it must have been sometime in the last five days of August 2012. :P

Then I guess it’s time for us to start QQing the forums to revert some of Adrenaline changes.

As I mentioned I think the only serious problem is that adrenaline decay starts too fast. 20s after leaving combat mode was fine…

Very nice posts Tipper. I also agree with SpookyPoo when it comes to adrenaline. The adrenaline nerf was too hard, especially considering they did it all in one single patch. It really doesn’t go well with them saying that they would only ever make small adjustments to game balance.

Triple nerf in one single patch is not “small adjustment”:
- adrenaline loss whenever burst skill is used, even if it misses, is blocked, gets interrupted. Ok, I can live with that.
- Faster adrenaline decay when outside of combat. Guess I could live with that too if the nerf stopped here.
- Adrenaline decay starts as soon as you exit combat mode. This is pure kitten, especially in combination with how fast adrenaline decay is.

Revert adrenaline decay start to what it was before. Not only was the nerf too harsh on warriors here, it also TAKES AWAY THE FUN in playing Warrior. It sometimes makes you use your burst just because you know you have to, instead of actually playing it smart and finding a good opportunity to use it!

There have been many good suggestions on traits here, but there’s one I still want to talk a bit more about:

Leg Specialist: Internal cooldown on this trait ruined it for synchronizing really well with Hammer Shock or Blade Trail. And as far as I remember this nerf only happened because of Warriors sitting on Arrow Carts in WvW. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if that was the case, this isn’t the way to fix the issues in game.

This trait has to go back to 0 internal cooldown, so we can sync it well with Hammer Shock and Blade Trail. It’s the least warriors deserve here.

I think “Fear me!” could also inflict cripple besides Fear…

I would actually say that it’s quite contrary to being OP. There’s something really wrong if warriors have to take double invulnerability + two skills for condi immunity to even be able to win fights. On top of that those skills make warrior incredibly boring to play. Warrior used to be my main on game release, after a while I just got bored of the class and rather play thief, mesmer and guardian.

This warrior build can be very dangerous if you’re being sloppy or if you’re playing against a good warrior. Unbeatable? Not at all. OP? No. Boring to play? Yes. If it catches you of guard you’re dead, but some other specs can do it even faster in that case.

Please do remember what spot the warrior was at before they gave it Berserker Stance as it is today, Cleansing Ire and Healing signet? It was a joke. Sad fact is Warriors need these cheesy crap traits and utility skills otherwise they melt. I would rather see Anet coming with something more exciting to play with on Warrior, while keeping the class viable in all game types, but don’t come complaining on the forum because of necessary utilities on warrior without offering good alternative ideas.

There have been enough destructive ideas on warrior that Anet has actually listened to…

Malediktus.9250:

Why only 50, this is discriminating zergs larger than only 50 people.

I would actually make it even less. 40 or even only 30.

Blobs and blob guilds are ruining the game.

OP just wrote a list of L2P issues there.

I like it when people indirectly admit that they’re bad.

Opynn.2936:

They been trying to fix Rush for 3 years now and it still miss the target.

Sir, I beg to differ. They haven’t been trying to fix it. If they actually cared about it and if they ACTUALLY tried to fix it, it would be fixed in 2 weeks time. They’re not stupid, they just don’t give much of a kitten…

Maybe if we told them, that we are willing to buy an improved Rush skill from gemstore…………

Just brainstorming…

Welcome back!

It won’t ever get any better
It may get worse…

Xaylin.1860:

samo.1054:

Yes, this is a fantasy game. Logic and realism should not be in the way of making something useful.

No, it doesn’t. But there still is a design and concept behind each class and weapon. And a pull on Hammer just doesn’t make any sense at all. I get that it would be nice and convenient but that hardly is an argument. A knock down would still get the job done and wouldn’t feel out of place.

If you wanted a pull, Rage/Physical skills might be the better place to put them, really.

Saying that something doesn’t make any sense at all is quite ignorant. It leads to think that someone thinks that they know and understand everything and based on their infinite knowledge of everything they conclude that something makes no sense. People used to think that earth being round makes no sense at all either.

Hammer primal burst creating a gravitational pull towards the point of impact makes at least as much or more sense than most skills in this game. Yet I’m not complaining about those skills…

The point of this whole debate is still that hammer primal burst push is a bad counterproductive skill design that doesn’t help warriors at all… I wouldn’t mind a knock-down mechanic on it though.

P.S. @Zietlogik

Something like that could work as well I guess and it would fit the current design of Berserker…

Voramoz.6790:

This is the build I ran in pvp:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvJAQNAsfTnMdA1kitkCmkCElilqATpHE7iBILuGQA4t0uantA-TpBHwAW2fAwDAQwhAIZZgAHBgBnAAA

I annihilated people. If you think you need stances or were trying to run sword torch GS or some nonsense it does not surprise me if you fail. This spec is awesome and the spiritual successor to the almight Shoutbow.

When I get to my computer I’m gonna write my in depth feedback. In short Berserker is awesome and new and does in involve some paradigm shift on your part. If it is uncomfortable for you, good. There is a learning curve with elite specializations that people will see.

I ran pretty much identical build, with a couple of modifications in the end. While the build was fun to play (probably mostly because it was a bit different for a change) I highly doubt this spec will see any real competitive play unless some things in it are improved. Sundering leap and shattering blow serve no specific well argumented purpose to me. They mostly ended in the utility bar, because I wanted to try them out…

The other build I tried is of course a power build with strength, discpline, berserk, GS and optional secondary weapon set, and of course head butt. I think that build was actually really powerful. It doesn’t have that great moment where it just shines on the battlefield, like rampage war currently, but it is always really dangerous because of the low head butt cooldown, so there’s a lot of hundred blades and decapitates/final thrusts going around under the effect of quickness

Xaylin.1860:

I said it didn’t make any sense because… how do you pull with a Hammer? I’m aware that games aren’t always the best place for logic. But a pull feels wrong conceptually. Knock down is the next thing which fits.

Yes, this is a fantasy game. Logic and realism should not be in the way of making something useful.

In this game people cast burning rocks falling from the sky, they shoot bullets that teleport them to their targets, they raise the dead, they shoot ten arrows from a bow in a second, they cast orbital strike in a world that just barely discovered ballistic weapons that fire projectiles propelled by gunpowder explosion, they blink around and make illusions of themselves.

… Oh but poor warriors, only limited to the simplest of newton’s laws. Not even any advanced physics or physics that allow a bit of fantasy.

Shooting fireballs by swinging your sword is ok tho.

And talking about explosions and all that. Every explosion creates a pull after the initial blast. As it pushes the air out with initial blast, the point of impact suffers from severely decreased air pressure. Once the blast reaches it’s maximum radius, the air that was pushed out comes back rushing in with almost same severity as the initial blast.

Thats why nuclear bombs have 2 devastating stages.

So there you go, we can push them out and then we can pull them back in, if that makes more sense

P.S. One more thing to add. The kind of thinking where physical warriors should be limited by physics in a fantasy world is exactly the thinking that made so many MMORPGs kitten in balance. Developers for some reason thought that mages as magic users should get all kinds of awesome damaging and CC skills… well because they use magic, while on the other hand, warriors would get hardly any more than a simple swing of a great sword…

Guys this IS a fantasy world. Use your imagination equally for magic users as for those that deal "physical " damage…

Some nice ideas this OP…

Doon.2364:

Xaylin.1860:

I would prefer a knock down. A pull doesn’t make any sense.

Pull would work well if it has a good range. Imagine a 900 range pull. Tell ur teammates ur going to pull and they all aoe ur spot. For pve u can kill trash mobs much faster than running around.

However, if we are going to stick with knockbacks I hope it increases the range of the knockbacks to 900 range. That way if I am planing to disperse enemies I want it to be effective.

Exactly this. A pull + maybe 2s cripple with radius slightly larger than current earthshaker and have your teammates drop aoe damage on warrior. That would be something with application worth mentioning…

I really can’t see how that doesn’t make sense…

It’s quite simple, from an sPvP point of view, without berserker stance and defy pain warrior still melts like delicious icecream. We are locked into taking stances and we are locked into taking defense and discipline and strength is highly recommended.

In WvW we are basically still stuck with nerfed shouts and nerfed warhorn (both nerfed for what reason exactly?), nerfed leg specialist that got nerfed because of Arrowcarts, triple nerfed adrenaline mechanicsm (triple nerf in one single patch, even tho Anet always said that they’re only gonna do small adjustments, lol).

Berserker does not address any of the issues that warrior has, honestly I even have the feeling no one bothered addressing them.

Rage utility skills are completely random, they have no utility in them actually and are even more useless than physical skills line. The bugged bull’s charge seems like an awesome choice over any rage utility skill, for real.

Torch #5 with some tweaks and buffs could be a decent skill and is the only thing in the whole berserker idea where Anet actually went a little creative…

Torch #4 nothing special…

Primal burst skills are very unimaginative, I’m very disappointed by those. Why stick to the formula that the original burst skills had and just add some aoe to all of them, that I do not understand.

From a WvW point of view it seems like all the awesomeness of primal burst skills was put into Rifle. Where exactly is the logic of Gun flame being 10 times as awesome as Decapitate, considering the range and all the advantage that comes with range. But I dare not complain about that too much, because Gun Flame is one of two good things that Warrior got with Berserker (atleast in WvW), and judging from how Anet treats warrior I have a strong hunch that Gun Flame will get nerfed while all other Primal burst skills stay untouched and quite useless.

Sword PR burst – useless.
Hammer PR burst – counterproductive, I made a topic about it – Why would I want to push enemies away from me?! Warrior has no pulls, I find that very weird.

I have been saying for 3 years that Warrior has to go back to the drawing board, the whole class. This berserker spec only proves that further. Anet is struggling to make something out of it, because the whole class is locked into taking certain traits and utility skills with ANY KIND of build.

The initial desing of warrior having stances on adrenaline bar was the right way to go. Condi cleanse is something that warrior should have through spending adrenaline on F1-F4, same goes for fast run/faster attack speed and a defensive/offensive battle stance.

… With Hammer primal burst?!

Wouldn’t it make more sense if Hammer primal burst would pull enemies closer to where warrior landed when he did his hammer burst?

You know… Oooooh just brainfarting here, since we’re a melee class and we preferably would like to have our enemies closer to us during the battle, rather than pushing them away…

Just a thought…

lordhelmos.7623:

Overexerted: You take 20% more damage
Lethargy: You move 50% slower
Strained: You attack 25% slower

Wow… Sorry, but I laughed a bit there. No pun intended, but if this is the effects you want, rather just send Warriors directly into downed state after PR ends, to spare them the torture of playing with such handicap and to prevent them from being humiliated by anyone that happens to be anywhere close to them at that point, lol.

Gonna demand refund.