Guild Wars 2

Crossplay.2067:

I’m not one to toss around hostility as that only turns a debate into an argument. However, between Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mind Stab, Mind Spike and Shattered Concentration, you can’t find a way to keep boons off of an opponent? Crazy as it would be, all of those skills, traits and utilities can be taken in one build. I don’t know of any class that can reapply Retaliation fast enough to outpace that. If you want to completely overkill the point, the Sigil of Nullification can be added too.

If you want a class that’s good at fighting zergs then you are in the wrong place. I also hate the fact that mesmers suck against groups but Anet did advertise it as a duelist profession. In that aspect, we got exactly what was on the tin. I can only hope that eventually we’ll get a weapon that will allow us to tag, bag and grab more proficiently.

it wasnt a duelist profession only at first. it is now after everything viable we had in groupplay got nerfed to the ground of the grounds. and honestly thats very very bad game design. a thief has better aoe than us and is better in 1v1’s so mes is missing out.
a light armor should not be a 1v1 pet class. a light armor needs aoe as we cant go frontline really. yes, we are not with a bad healthpool like ele, but we sure are squishy and the lack of stability makes things worse for mes!
every class should be viable in every game mode. so if u want to spec into wvw as a mes, u should be able to.

yeah thats a problem for mes for sure. same problem with phantasms that go on full cd if target is out of range. we need better indicators for out of range stuff for sure

reason for that was u were out of reach. portal has a range and if u are past it, it wont work. if u have been a golem portal bot for a while u will get the feeling for the range. it did take me a while too to learn when i started. it actually helps with the mini map too.

but we did ask the devs for a range indicator for portal as it can be very annoying. my old guild used to count while doing portal chains, but it would be nice t have a clear visual or something that blocks us from using it if out of range.

BlackDevil.9268:

And you asume boon stripping with a minimal of 32 seconds cooldown static aoe is gonna strip a boon that is reapplied every 5 seconds fast enough so mesmers wont 1shot themselves by casting a defensive skill? By the way, mesmer boon removal mainly comes from shatter, which forces you to come close and to survive close to the enemy’s melee you either have to go full tank and deal 0 damage combined with 2 guardians and warriors or survive with immunity’s. Too bad retal totally makes that 2nd option useless.

hahah so true. people think mes is the best boonstrip class in the game…nullfield is 32 cd and then what else u got in zerg? the shatter boonrip?erm i hope u got ip then cause your shatters will fail 85% of the time in a zerg due to illusions dying. u mean mh sword 3rd attack…sure how close would u like to get to that blob so u can take away a boon? u mean gs3…well it misses quiet a lot and also risky to use cause u are stuck while casting it and it takes 1 thief to see that and u dead. so yeah…oh u mean dissenchanter?….i dare u to use it in a zerg.

maha.7902:

BlackDevil.9268:

maha.7902:

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

Projectile reflection is useless and only deals more damage to yourself by retaliation than you apply to them.
Veils and portals are both out of combat skills. It doesnt affect in combat gameplay.
Boon stripping is mostly only possible with null field, but most of all with shatter. You can’t shatter if you die cause of retal damage.
The aoe condition cleanse on mesmer requires you to stay really close to your guys and is really poor compared to the other classes such as guardian and warrior. Also most ppl run -condition duration food. Cleansing is not that needed.
You have 1 pull on a very long cooldown. It’s not even close to being as good as any CC a warrior can do.
Our ranged preasure is like eh…. 0? It’s also multi-hitting like blurred frenzy so you will get melted by blurred frenzy as it is 9 hits of retal every 1.5 sec.
The quickness is very static and is nerfed by 50% so it makes no sense

Another thing, of all things you listed, 7 of those are either elites or utilities. Since when do we have so many slots?

If you take a bar of veil, null field, blink and time warp you have access to six of the things I mentioned. And sure, most people take lemongrass food but that’s why condis can just take koi cakes to nullify the condition reduction. So what I’m seeing so far is that mesmers have roles – niche roles – but you dislike them and aren’t willing to pay any attention to retaliation so you want blurred frenzy buffed. Here what I recommend – stop suiciding yourself and actually try picking your targets.

erm ever been in the middle of a zergfight?i dont think so, because how on earth can u kno0w if all the 30-60 people in there have no retal?niche roles? thats not even a niche role, it needs 1-2 mes max per zerg for veils and they need veil only as atm there is barely any projectiles to reflect in zergs as all of them play GWEN. u think we are ganking backlines? well no, thats the thieves job not ours!
problem is that blurred frenzy didnt need that nerf and retal kills fast with blurred frenzy and then if u are unlyucky enough to put down a feedback and hit more retal u are dead!
in fact im not suiciding, im staying a way from the main blob or ill die in 2 sec. mes goes with casters as we are light armor, but we lack everything a light armor is supposed to have…so yeah go ahead and enjoy your niche role.

yeah if u die your portal is gone.

BlackDevil.9268:

maha.7902:

As I posted earlier on the suggestion forum I think the real problem is that the current retaliation design and implementation is broken.

Retaliation’s point is to discourage landing lots of fast hits. Clearly it’s doing its job and its implementation isn’t broken just because you don’t like it.

Yes maybe we should shut ourselves off from everything that is broken in this game and just watch how this game of bugs will continue dying while everyone is pretending there’s nothing to worry about.

It’s not broken at all, you just want to be able to use blurred frenzy in ZvZ but don’t like that you just obliterate yourself through retaliation if you do it. How about rather than calling the game broken, full of bugs and dying and any other hyperbole you can think of, you take a second, think “maybe I need to adapt my playstyle” and when you’re up against a zerg you don’t suicide yourself with retaliation next time?

1 problem though, there’s nothing to adapt to. If you adapt yourself to not jumping in, releasing your bomb and gtfo then you’re doing nothing. Oh wait, we can always spam #1 greatsword. Yeah that definitely is gonna improve my gameplay so much more and makes this game so much more fun. Or are we actually forced to reroll another class because arenanet clearly wanted specific roles to classes?

yeah i rerolled necro and am leveling a guard right now. atm there is GWEN that ecah has a unique role while being able to deal good aoe dmg and cc and then we have TREM which all can either 111 from the back or all fill the 1 role of ganking….i chose mes not thief, so i dont wanna have to be a ganker. mes used to be great in wvw, anet overrreacted, did not shafe but rather nerfed everything to the ground… so now we are stuck as veilbots that are squishy and have a hard time to espace the massive cc spam and meleetrains….
i doubt that anet will fix the issue with mes being viable in zvz, so i rerolled. im tired of patches that only include tooltip fixes, 1-3 new bugs and maybe 1 unimportant bugfix!
traitsneed work, traitlines need rework, skills and utilities need rework, we need a viable non ai wvw build, certain nerfs need to be looked at again and all the bugs that keep piling up need to be adressed…so far i have seen absolutely no real work done for mes at all apart from nerfs since more than a year.
seriously loved my mes, but atm i cant stand playing it and im not gonna wait another year to get 1 single change that mayyyybe will help wvw mes!

Fhaeris.9237:

Thanks pyro, your sacrifice won’t be forgotten.

can we get him unbanned? i mean all he did was trying to help us, he wasnt trolling he just wanted a gamebreaking bug to get fixed fast.
so yeah free pyro!

well i dont mind other classes having some sort of access to confusion, just not as much that they can stack it like this. mes should be the one dominating confusion and yes necro should have more torment. torment does make sense on mes as in gw1 mes was the ultimate punishing class together with necro.making confusion on interrupts on a rune is bad design imo as we all know war engi are kings of interrupts.
i think anet really needs to focus on class specific roles in other gmae modes than stupid spvp 1v1 if they ever wanna balance this game.
gwen does have a lot to offer in almost every game mode and war doesnt even have a real weakness. cc doesnt affect them much, condis dont affect them much they have an insane mobility, massive healthpool, great toughness and great power….
other classes do have weaknesses. mes can stealth and has good combat mobility, but little to no stability, bad condi cleanse, terrible out of combat speed, no aoe, 1v1 single target skills only, nothing unique but veil, portal and tw…
what we are missing is the role we had when confusion was strong. we were the punishing class that slowed down zergs and was feared too. i mean my old guild was mainly mesmers and we were called mesmer deathsquad because we were strong with our glambombs…i understand that it needed to be shaved, but not nerfed the way it was.u cant just destroy one of our core mechanic along with a terrible trait nerf and then a few months later introduce a rune that does what glam mes used to be able to but better and with less effort. seriously i get that spvp players hate mesmers, but wvw mes suffers and i already rerolled as im tired of veilbotting!

Rangerdeity.5847:

I am posting this in a seperate post as well however i will link it here for the mesmers i think i finally found a viable damage build with impressive survival as well (it is condition tho) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf8cl0npVtVqxUNUrNSpBdqng6xEmmS6AcgKA-TFyCABAcSFO+JFAo+Bm3fwT1fyTDTiKBzS5XAgDgdrbdrbd3d3dP+4jP+4j3u7u7u7ubpAmUaE-w
under 25 kill stacks and 25 stacks of might neither of which are horribly hard in a zerg scepter 2 will deal 21k damage over 14 seconds. also your shatters and glams deal additional confusion and torment. and while warriors will just cleanse them you can rest assured you are tanky as you possibly can be so your more than welcome to come into the center of the field and start poking away with your swords to summon extra illusions for more shatters. one thing this build lacks however is gap closers and stun removal but in ZvZ you can do pretty well without those.

i actually tried the same build for some time, but with my matchups, this build wont do much as the gwen just cleanses every singe condi in seconds.condi is not really viable because of lemongrass, melandru and war’s near immunity to condis.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Carighan.6758:

Ah, I forgot an important point, sorry, my bad:

• Runes of Perplexity removed. They just cause Engineers and Warriors to be tons better at confusion than Mesmers originally ever were, and they’re the source of 90%+ of the confusion whining.

In my opinion. Remove Confusion from Warriors and Engineers altogether. Maybe keep the Runeset as a slightly more nerfed Mesmer only runeset.

Then give all classes access to a condition only they have access to (with a Runeset)

We have Torment already which i kind of think should be a class specific condition, not sure which class. Maybe Necromancer only condition? Thus we would need to remove the Sigil of Torment.

As for other classes not sure what they could get, They would be conditions that work for the class as well as being strong enough when compared to the other class specific conditions.

i think perplexity 6 would have to change the confusion on interrupt part. engis can just stack it wayyyy to good with this rune which doesnt make sense if confusion is a mesmers core mechanic/core condition.after glamour and confusion nerf, mes has nothing left to contribute in wvw raids anymore and confusion gave us a clear role which was punishing mindless spammers. confusion was the 1 thing that kept the massblobs from rushing everything without thinking.also during glam times people didnt focus so much on condi cleanse, thats why the glambombs were so strong.
dont forget a glam mesmer had to give up a lot to deal such dmg with confusion. no power, bad condi cleanse, bad defense, no pu of course. most of us did movve to pu cause thats the only thing we have left next to shatter.

lunyboy.8672:

Korossive.7085:

Confusion should have been mesmer-only in the first place. Why other classes have access to it I have no idea.

Soooo, Thieves should be the only class to have blinds? Guardians the only to have fire? Necros the only to have poison? Warriors the only to have bleeds? Eles the only to have chill?

Maybe you could provide a reasonable argument for your statement to be more clear.

well confusion is sort of the whole gw1 mes hexes in a way, so confusion should be the main mes condition, which it is not anymore thanks to perplexity. mes already had a tough time stacking it if they werent going full glam build. when perplexity was introduced, confusion was easier to stack for all other professions and was even better with that one rune on another profession….
now it does make sense that other professions have some form of confusion just shouldt be able to stack it as well as mes, but if u wanna buff confusion again, perplexity 6 has to be removed so non confusion classes cant exploit it.

Leo Paul.1659:

ClinkyDink.9364:

My warden suddenly refuses to attack. It just spawns and sits there looking pretty.

I’ve tried it on multiple maps. I’ve tried restarting the client. Nothing, it just refuses to attack anymore. I’m a reflect spec, this is important.

It was fine up until a few hours ago. I have no clue what happened.

The previous patch said they fixed it but it obviously is still bugged. But then again, I did choose mesmer as my main profession BECAUSE it was pretty. So I guess I got what I wanted and shouldn’t complain. :/

i made my mes 3 weeks after headstart of the game, because i like the purple XD and as i loved wvw, mes used to be viable and sooooo much fun in wvw. well i changed purple to green now and main my necro.

well there has been a patch and i am glad this got fixed.

ClinkyDink.9364:

My warden suddenly refuses to attack. It just spawns and sits there looking pretty.

I’ve tried it on multiple maps. I’ve tried restarting the client. Nothing, it just refuses to attack anymore. I’m a reflect spec, this is important.

It was fine up until a few hours ago. I have no clue what happened.

its been like that ever since december i think. it used to be such an awesome phantasm and honestly i liked it stale better as it was reliable and would reflect projectiles perfectly.

Magi.8061:

Well, lets be accurate:

he didnt say he was aware of “all this issues”, he said he will be looking at one of them. which means: taking a look, then doing… well…. whatever for the next 5 months…

like when its raining, ur house has no roof and someone says, “well i will take a look at the colour of this one brick above the door”

well and whenever they take a look at something they broke it will take at least 6 months to get fixed. another patch and we get tooltips…seriously? i feel like anet is mocking us cause this has to be a very bad joke!

LunarNacht.8913:

I would like to reset mesmer back to release state…

yes agreed id like my mes to be viable in wvw again.

Menaka.5092:

Pyroathiest.4168:

selan.8354:

and just won another 30g from my guild as i predicted that they will break mes again.

Now that’s just cheating

I’d call it a low risk investment

well what shall i say, i keep telling them that they will break mes again and my guild is all like naaaah, there really isnt anything left they can break….well i proved them wrong. :-)

Lishtenbird.2814:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Hurray…they fixed tooltips.

But hey, the list is so long! One can’t say they aren’t working on our bugs, right, right? Ah, who am I kidding…

Indrea.7803:

Incredible, another survivability key ability is gone: Mesmer was practically unplayable in zerg, now it is.

• One broken blink which “teleports” you to current position in zerg = death, which happens, I think… 30% of time? 50% of time?
• Getting stuck after survivability skills like phase retreat or blink bug out = death.
• Not being able to distort through lines after broken blinks anymore = death.
• Failed iLeap = high increase in chance of death.
• Nerfed vigor = high increase in chance of death.
• Phantasms not attacking gates = useless.
• Constant “Obstructed!” = useless.
• Targets constantly running away to “Out of range!” = useless.
• One AoE weapon skill = poor tagging.
• Illusions failing on invulnerable.
• Temporal curtain not stacking swiftness – buy Traveler’s or go home. Chasing fleeing prey? Forget it.
• Temporal curtain so low that its reflect is nearly useless.
• Warden not attacking.
• Warden reflecting damage to single target.

Hey, we still got veil and portal (without a range indicator)… which we can use if we do not need to slot in blink, condi removal and stability to survive, which obviously we do not as we wear heavy armour and have largest health pool and highest mobility.

nice summary, thats how i feel atm. with distortion being bugged(or intentionally nerfed) another survival in zergs is gone. it is already really tough to survive on mes in a zerg and now its even worse. anet please delete and start from scratch if u are unable to understand the class mechanics and fix the terrible bugs. just redesign the whole class.

Facet.5914:

It’s a mistake to think that “balance” means that every class represents 1/8th of a typical composition. Mesmers and Thieves are less represented than GWEN but they still serve extremely important functions. It’s only Rangers and Engineers, which are completely absent, which are underpowered.

by extreemly important u mean every 60 sec u get to put down a veil and if the server decides to golem rush u are allowed to portal gomes. oh and every 240 sec u can put tw, oooh joy this makes me soooo wanna play mes in wvw. this is suuuch great balance and the role of veilbot is soo much fun right?
seriously, every class should have access to a wvw group build. mm necro for example isnt very viable in wvw, but u can swap to power well necro and boom u are viable. in spvp u use a different build, thats how classes should be! every class should have access to a viable zvz raid build not just 4 classes and the rest is forced to reroll if they wanna actually have fun!
mes used to be viable in wvw during glamour, but since the mega nerf, there has been nothing given back to the mes in that department!
4 classes are viable, 1 is good to have(a few thieves),1 is the utilitybot(1mes for veil) and the rest we dont need at all.

i actually expected this patch to be rather underwhelming…and just won another 30g from my guild as i predicted that they will break mes again. distortion now not invul anymore….and yes tested iwarden…still stands around or spends most of its lifespawn chasing after enemies rather than attacking…

Pyroathiest.4168:

King.6745:

Distortion shatter is currently bugged, unless this was it’s actual effect. It currently only evades attacks rather than granting invulnerability on shatter. Meaning, you cannot walk through Line of Warding, Static Fields and similar abilities like these. I assume Distortion is suppose to give you invulnerability rather than evasion and I do not see anything in the patch notes regarding a change like this.

Uhoh. Brb testing this.

Tested, this is a large problem. I’ll be sending a PM to Grouch about this. I encourage everyone to do the same.

yup just tested it. not 1 single bug has been fixed. apart from disenchanter which is one of the least used skills. iwarden still broken and now distortion grants no more invul? seriously anet sooo much hate for mesmers. just redesign the class already. u keep breaking it and take every single thing that would help in wvw. how am i supposed to survive now in a zerg with distortion being like this?guys, seriously anet has again showed how much they hate our class and not fixed anything, we should just reroll, this classs is soo broken and the bugs and ninja changes are getting worse and worse.

i’d recommend necro at least u can play it in wvw and spvp and tpvp viable only if u do pve go with a different class.ill finish leveling my guardian and main my necro. gg anet!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

i love when people think necromancer they think only of conditions.
fact: power builds don’t contribute much in wvw

You mean “condition builds” right? Power builds are seemingly all that’s wanted in WvW.

yeah because of the zergs condicleanse…condi necro is not wanted in my guild at all. we all run power necros, because of lemongrass, because of war not being vulnerable to condis….
thing is those 4 professions have very very clear roles in wvw.
all others:

mes is veil/tw/portal bot(we are not there to dmg, we are not there to do anything but that. because everything a mes has can be done easier and better by gwen or thief apart from veil,tw, portal.

thief: is the only one that is seen a lot in zergfights: they are gankers and there to pick off the backline necro and eles, so thief does have a spot

engi: seen them more often since the patch, but still not really a clear role apart from being annoying turret and granades spammers.

ranger: oh well they are there somehow and ive seen them more often, but not really noticed, mainly there to rapidfire backline down. competitive guilds dont really run any rangers.(hambow and killshot war can fill that spot way too easy)

i also think mantras are not very helpful the way they are atm. the recharging is a pain in the current spm meta, so either completely rework them or remove and replace them.

i would like the mesmer to be less of an ai spam class by maybe adding some of the old gw1 mesmer glory back to our class.
as a light armor class we do need a way to have non ai aoe/ ususally a light armor class is the caster type, mes isnt that atm as we are more like a mix between thief and ranger. if we had some more control aoe options, it would actually turn us into a real light armor class again.

some ideas:
our interrupts should be better accessible
maybe some form of melee dmg reflect like our scepter 2 block
something that can slow melee trains down like an oposite timewarp effect
unerf bb trait
maybe a trait that replaces the current shatters with something else( f1 till f 4 arent woring that well without ip)
confusion was sorta our way of hexes and it used to be strong, maybe a mes trait that can incease the dmg a little bit for mesmers only?(in while u are at it can u please remove perplexity confusion on interrupt)
i would love to be the class that can interrupt, messing with other peoples cooldowns andpunishes mindless spamming. there are many hexes that could be sorta worked with(would need some rework of course):
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Air_of_Disenchantment
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ethereal_Burden
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Diversion
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Confusing_Images
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Clumsiness
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fragility (love this one)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ignorance
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Frustration_
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Migraine_

i mean these are just afew but this is something i would see as the mesmers role. not veilbot, not clonespamming only. i mean yes, of course every class should be able to spec into 1v1 builds for spvp, but in tpvp and wvw the 1v1 ai spam is just not really what i see as a role. if i was to rework the mesmers i would stick closer to the gw1 mes and also help the group mesmers out there, because not everyone wants to roam or be a ganker or veilbot…

Fhaeris.9237:

Sadly, I gave up on my mesmer for now. Way too broken to be of any use in PvE.

gave up on it too. i play wvw mainly and i do zergbusting, the bugs will cause immediate death, plus nothing has been fone to help the wvw mes. so i main my necro and am leveling a guard and war… mes too broken and only viable in spvp.

i used to main a mesmer and actually was useful in wvw zvz before glam nerf. since then we got more 1v1 and ai heavy builds and my mes has turned into a boring utility bot which is mainly veil . the lack of aoe, stability and condi removal made it very unfun to play my class, so i moved over to necro as i like caster. i m giving up on mes being viable in zvz again as anet made them too strong in spvp and took everything we had in zvz away…splittling spvp and wvw balance would be a good start if anet ever wants to balance this game.

well for me atm its rip mes in general. too many bugs make this class a pain to play in wvw. well there will be a patch at some point and then they break something again.

Fa made a guild to destroy tc’s weekly dolyak parade [YAK]animal control

yeah i noticed decoy not breaking stuns all the time anymore, same with blink.
can we get some answers from anet, that certain bugs are at least being looked at?

jarthur.3649:

blast finisher that leaves behind a smoke field. this givers Mesmer both a blast finisher and a helpful field that would allow us some pretty cool combos.

i like the idea of a blast finisher…but honestly blast finisher is not really a biiig change for mes in wvw for example. id rather have it an aoe or even better aoe interrupt

Spurnshadow.3678:

selan.8354:

i think though the whole problem is, that most of those blobs are mainly cc oriented adn mes has no stability…and no the mantra is really not a good option.

Mantra of concentration on a mantra build: 3 stun breaks, 6 seconds total of stability, 600 extra toughness while channeling. @2700 aoe heal at the end of the channel, all in under 27 seconds. How is that not viable?

mantra is terrible in the middle of a zerg and a mantra build in wvw…in a zergplay?no no and no again this is terrible to use. u get perma interrupted and the channeling is an absolut pain. and also if u use mantras u wast all traits on those stupid mantras and then how u gonna deal dmg?hpw u gonna do anything with that in wvw?in a zerg not roaming not 1v1 im talking zerg! mantra of concentration is not good enough vs cc spamming zerg!

Handin.4032:

Mesmers biggest two problems are: 1) Many of the phantasms are still quite buggy, some of the bugs have been around since launch. 2) The anet devs seem to keep tossing the mesmer in totally different directions. At launch, you saw a lot more different builds, especially since confusion was actually useful in pvp/pve. This is why things like the torch phantasm is all but useless. It seems like every “balance” patch, the devs toss the class into a different direction. First they wanted confusion, then no confusion, then support, then stopped, them mantra, then stopped, then interrupt, etc. It’s also clear that this is probably because none of the balance development team actually play mesmer (in their last live stream they stated what they played). Our trait lines are an absolute mess, with little synergy. Things are kind of spread all over the place right now.

Mesmers don’t need a buff. We need a rework. Our trait lines need to be reworked so they make sense (i.e. don’t have signet traits in a bunch of different trait lines, same with mantra). After playing warrior, thief and engi, it seems like my mesmer really has to min/max. I never really noticed until I played those other classes. We also need all the bugs that have been around for a year or more to finally be fixed!! iZerk becomes useless if it spins and gets stuck in a rock…

agree with this somewhat too. im not asking for a buff, im asking for rework as the mes in its current form is not what i can use in wvw. we used to be good in wvw zergplay. we no vailbots, we were actually feared and yes we dealt a ton of dmg. now its hard to find a build that can help in wvw. i lke some traits of shatter and thats why i went back to it as i dont need stupid ai to deal dmg or be even able to use any of the shatters successfully. but im bound to ip for that, which limits the whole build diversity.
glam non viable and event those traits are in weird spots. the traits need to be updated,reworked and put in a better order. skills need to be updated, reworked,cd need to be looked at, lots of bugs need to be fixed and honestly a few nefs need to be looked at again if they really need to be there or not.

but most importantly, anet needs to stop tunnel visioning the stupid 1v1 hot join mesmer performance. play mes in a zerg and im not talking about u run with 60 + people..how about u run with an outnumbered group and go zergbust…trust me u would see the mes and many other things in a way different light. cause in those fights u will see all the bugs, the ai problem mes has, the immobilize stacking issue and with it the mes no stability problem, and also u would see the problems with mantra channelling etc! and then try to make a build with this messy traitlines!

blink. i use blink and believe me it saved me many many times when the enemy zerg decided to rush all the casters i was able to blink behind them. the cripple doesnt really do much in a zerg because in wvw everyone uses condi cleanse

silentnight warrior.2714:

My mesmer has a role in WvW.

I usualy play with staff/GS glamour mesmer. Blind and confusion on glamours skills (veil, null field and feedback). You can use null field and after staff 5 to control/damage and to alow your guild members to CC the enemy.

I can mitigate a lot of damage for me and my team by blinding the enemy with a well played null field, feedback or veil.

In my opinion only the confusion should be a little stronger because its only a problem when you have 3+ mesmers spaming glamours on the enemy.

The thing is i dont feel a veil boot when i play my mesmer because i do much more than that.

glamour is not viable anymore, tried it and the bb nerf kills this build including the ridiculously low dmg of confusion. mes has to sacrifice a lot in order to get good stacks before the nerf, now after bb nerf, this build is no longer good and hardly a role or viable. blind u say, sorry but this spot is already filled by other professions. nullfield is again a utility on a lonf cooldown and chaos storm is rng, that doesnt hit much.
nullfield deals no dmg, rips boons yes(which necro does way better while they corrupt the boons and also deal a massive amount of aoe dmg) and cleanses condis(which ele and war clean 10 fast and better and on lower cooldown)

i did try glamour build and hybrid builds after the nerfs and sorry but they are really not viable or deal a good amount of dmg anymore. u can still tag a little but i get 10 times more lootbags on my necro and survive 16 times longer in a zergfight on my necro while i actually do help the team a ton with wells and aoe dmg.

abyssal scepter is what i have and i love the way it looks on my mes

Raunchy.6891:

Carighan.6758:

selan.8354:

i agree with u. staff is very rng which is a problem because u never know how effective your attacks are. u can be lucky and get a ton of nice condis and daze off, but then u can be unlucky and your chaosstorm deal like no dmg, your phantasm fails to hit anything and your chaos armor is useless. rng is bad and mes has so many skills and traits that only work if a certain thing is fullfilled. some traits only trigger if u kill something, others only trigger is shatter hit other stuff only trigger if u get hit…etc. staff is rng weapon and needs a make over imo!

Half the chaos line is about random effects. RNG is a really good mechanic for game balance, it forces players to do risk management.

I know it’s unpopular among 1v1 players, but then 1v1 is just not a supported game format in GW2.

lolwut.
No one likes rng, especially in pvp. Ask anyone competitive and they will tell you how terrible it is for rng mechanics to be shoved into your face. It balances nothing. It just makes things more random, and random effects/consequences do not support skillful play. You know what actually promotes risk management? Skills that involve risk…..

exaclty all other classes can push a button and get exaclty what they wanted, we deal dmg based on luck. rng is terrible.why else do u think glamour was so popular in wvw? it was the only build that didnt rely on ai to shatter where we want to, phantasm to hit where we ant to, chaosstrom to trigger daze when we want to, being in range to get the boons on shatter etc. rng is bad period.glamour i was able to use where i wanted, when i wanted and i knew exaclty what i was getting and that i was dealing dmg for example.

Swish.2463:

zest.4192:

Just a thought- being that illusions already are intrinsically tied to one enemy(they disappears when the target dies), and therefore thematically are likely to only exists in the target’s head, what if clones could only be damaged by their main target and were hazy, insubstantial, and tinted some color for all other enemies(something to make it immediately obvious if you aren’t the player capable of damaging the clone)?

This change obviously couldn’t be applied to phantasms since for instance the phantasmal warden has effects hat apply to a large number of enemies- but making it so only one enemy has the potential to kill a given clone provides a simple means for mesmers to actually have access to their illusions in group PvP scenarios.

This would be a tremendous asset to shatter builds as well as builds that seek to use staffclones or sharper images on clones to apply conditions in a team PvP enviroment. It would also make all of the “compounding” traits better in a group pvp scenario since maintaining 2-3 would actually be realistic.

Well a less extreme method could be to do the same thing, but only provide immunity to AoE damage caused by enemies besides the main target, since it’s frequently passive zerg AOE that insta-kills illusions anyway.

This sounds hard to implement but it’s a good idea i hadn’t even considered. Ensuring our clones could remain up or make it to their destination would help with shatters and some of the Phantasms AoE.

I’m not sure how this would balance out in sPvP, tho it would make pressure on single targets more interesting it may end up being OP.

Still its good for thought.

honestly, the only thing that safes ms in wvw is non ai build options like glamour was. sahtters wont help as we are bound to ip in wvw if u wanna viable shatter, phantasms do hit a few targets u can pick off, but again bugs,cc and aoe affect them so its not good in wvw.
but the real problem we have now is that we are strong in 1v1 only and if they dont split balance between wvw and spvp, i see very little hope for the mes to ever be really viable in wvw again.
glamour was strong during the time anet split spvp and wvw blance and honestly, things were not amazingly balanced, but there was no perma immobilize, perma cc, perma fear and things were more fun even for rangers. i used to see a ton of rangers in wvw and yes we had whole mesmer guild that would go glamour zergbusting and it was fun to see how people kept spamming and killing themselfes on confusion.
i agree glam should have been shaved a little, but anet did never just shafe the mesmer, they flat out nerf it. chaosarmor, temporal curtain, blurred frenzy, blinding befuddlement, confusion..etc and then anet dropped the ball because all they saw afterwards is the spvp mesmer that can wreck u in a duel. they forgot that there was a strong wvw mes once.
u cant just nerf all core wvw mechanics of a class and then only give us 1v1 stuff in return!
as for now, i have sorta given up on my mes and moved on to necro and ele.

a t s e.9614:

selan.8354:

a t s e.9614:

By that logic thieves also need massive buffs then. A class doesn’t need to be good at everything and shouldn’t . Guards are the best support class and the most effective in blobs, however in 1v1 they suck. I would call it balanced.

Mesmer is the opposite, its the best 1v1 class but they lack an important role for group play. If you wanna zerg just play another class I don’t see where’s the problem .

When I PvE , I always take my warrior, I’m not gonna complain about my engineer that is useless in PvE.

u really just dont get it do u?thief is very well represented in wvw. they even have better aoe than mes and guess what?thif fills the role of ganker and is fairly important to have. mes is veilbot.
and only because we are good in 1v1, doesnt mean that we are not allowed to be good in zergs and viable like everyone else. it does make no sense to design a class that u can only use in 1 gmae mode which is spvp atm, cause verywhere else the lck of group skills and builds shows.
and i really dont care if u take another class in pve, because honestly i also think engi and necro need both help in pve, same as thieves. in wvw rangers and mes need help and also necro needs a few helpful tweaks.
i know atse u hate mesmers and u just keep going with your blind childish hate, but if u would have plaeyed a mes back when glamour was viabe u would understand why wvw mes are unhappy now.
no one in here cares if u have a personal problem with mes and in your case it really is a big l2p issue.
what u do ats, u play your main class u die to this one mes that beats u over and over and now u want to prevent other mesmers to get buffs because u are turning a blind eye on actual issues.
u like dueling, fine!
i like wvw zergbusting and my class has no more role because of countless nerfs and countless buffs to other classes while mes never got anything back. do u think i want to play pu? nope, id rather have a real wvw build which u would never face because for example u would never see a glam mesmer in spvp, but u would see them in wvw.
u cant be that selfish and try to ruin the game for everyone only because u lost to a mes and hate them now.
so please stop posting in every mes forum post u see, noone cares about your hate speech and also stop posting in threads without contributing to the actual discussion! and 1 big important thing: GET OVER IT!

Just reroll a staff guard for zerging dude. There’s no way a mesmer will become useful in large scale fights no matter how you buff it.

well acually u are wrong, again. there is many many ways to fix wvw zerg mesmers. plus we used to be useful in zergs during glamour times. i dont wanna reroll because anet fails my favorite class over and over in the game mode i love the most. but i play my necro noe instead of my mesmer as my guild leader decided to give me a veilbot break(yay).
in order to help wvw mes, all we need is a non ai heavy build like glamour was., which mean mes needs a new form of dealing aoe dmg that isnt rng like chaosstorm or shatters that fail.

u didnt offend us at all allarius, but here is the problems i experience:

support role:
well we have nullfield 40 sec cd that cleanes condis per pulse and rips boons. its okish but then again long cd and doesnt deal dmg unless traited glamour. then we have necros that can throw down well off corruption and deal massive dmg aswell.
we can share boons and rip boons with shatter. again shatter doesnt work well without ip trait and most of the shatters spec for dmg and not boonrip. boonsharing and granting is the guardians job.

interrrupt builds:
the nerf to temporal curtain made the skill fail often and chaos storm is too rng as u never know if chaosstorm deals daze or not plus there is a lot of stability in zergs.
problem is that chaos storm is rng and u are lucky if it dazes and interrupts, and then we also have a real nice cd of 35 seconds which is more than meteor shower and way less effective in a zerg than meteorshower. dmg is terrible too.

illusionary counter doesnt interrupt it inflicts torment vs 1 target again 1 target,mirror blade doesnt interrupt, scepter auto is the worst auto attack ever and doesnt interrupt illusionary riposte interrupts and is good vs single target no aoe though= again not useful in a zerg.
now you could trait ip and interrupt with f 3 shatter but it mainly hits one target and then the worst part is that u can trait diversion to hit multiple targets but then again its a gm trait where u have to take ip trait.
shatters are good in 1v1 if not traited with ip, but in a zerg most of my shatters wont make it because the ai dies while running after the target.

i would love to get non ai based aoe…something i can trait for like necro can make wells groundtargeted it would be nice to have a trait that makes certain skills aoe aoe interrupts…i think though if ip was better placed in the traitlines, wvw mes could maybe spec for better wvw viability. yeah and maybe fixing all our bugs (i really would like to be able to hit stuff on walls and oil buildside…and my iwarden and ileap and clones to work the way they are supposed to) could be a start….

omg yeah i would loooove to be able to corrupt a boon. i think though as a mesmer stuff like corrupt boon would fit perfectly, we use the enemys strengths against them like illusionary counter does, so corrupting a boon would sorta make sense. i would love to see more punishing in the mesmer class. confusion was the ultimate punisher and it got taken away, but then again in the current meta i doubt confusion in its old form would still be soo strong.

Swish.2463:

@Allarius

You seem to have answered your own question in your post but let’s attempt an explanation.

From a purely wvw perspective, mesmers core mechanics become less and less useful as the number of combatants increases. Clones and phantasms die off and limit damage potential. Similar to rangers with dead pets this reduces our damage output and build options.

As confusion as a condition was needed pretty heavily game wide it’s looking at a more annoyance type of condition than the previous panic inducing condition. Even in very large stacks.

Mesmers suffer from very low aoe potential, most of it tied up in shatters or staff.

So yes, while having a utility role is indeed a role, how much fun is it really to know that your class is hindered, by design, in very large scale combat scenarios? Would you be satisfied if your main toon could only play this one role, which is using the utility side of your skill bar, and the rest would not matter or potentially even be appreciated by your team?

Even glamor was itself a utility bases build, it did not rely on clones or phants or shatters. At the time the Mesmers strongest build in wvw was that which ignored anets “intent” for our core mechanics.

Does that help?

really well said. sory english is my 4th language but thats sorta what i am trying to say.anet did something right with the wvw mes in the beginning before all the nerfs hit. now did the aoe we had with glamour affect spvp balance?nope, believe me i tried glam in spvp before the nerfs and no no way op or viable. glam was a zerg build and gave us a role and was perfect vs mindless spamming zergs. i would happily give up pu for a new wvw build like this.
i still think that making a lightarmor class a 1v1 pet dueling class is wrong…then make us medium armor at least or take a look at previously nerfed traits and skills and unnerf and maybe rework this class..too many bugs make things really tough in wvw.

well after all nerfs, we are sorta thief ranger ai pet class now..problem is that our pets are so buggy that every fight is pure luck nowadays. if u are lucky your skills work when u need them, but the bug make fighting a pain and as im running with a zergbusting guild these bugs make my mes not viable anymore. fixing all the bugs sure would make me use my mes again, but for now ill switch to necro, im tired of veilbotting and tired of the bugs!aaand the list keeps getting longer and longer….

Allarius.5670:

I have heard that WvW Mesmers feel like utility bots, or veil bots, or what have you. So my question is: why is this necessarily a bad thing? It sounds like a role to me, so I do not think I understand the situation fully. I would appreciate any clarification that could be offered as I feel truly ignorant. Although glamours do not wreck folks like they used to, they still seem amazingly useful, particularly in a WvW setting. Is it more a case of Mesmers have a use/role/function in WvW, but its just a matter that most WvW Mesmers would rather be doing something else?

so putting down 1 veil every 60 seconds while not being able to do anything else is a role to u? u kidding right? thats absolutely no role at all whatsoever!!especially because mes used to be the ultimate punishing class in wvw. we punished mindelss zergs for facerolling their keyboard and mes groups were feared back then…and now vel, tw ..and then stand with the casters while not haveing aoe dmg unless u spec into ip. so thats what a role sounds to u?seriously?play it for 1 week and tell me how much fun this kitten is for u!
believe me u would give u pu and every stupid phantasm to get my old viable wvw mes back! u can have every pu, stealth and all that stuff back if u give me a viable wvw build with non ai aoe again like glamour was! and u can have alll my 1v1 kitten in return!

a t s e.9614:

By that logic thieves also need massive buffs then. A class doesn’t need to be good at everything and shouldn’t . Guards are the best support class and the most effective in blobs, however in 1v1 they suck. I would call it balanced.

Mesmer is the opposite, its the best 1v1 class but they lack an important role for group play. If you wanna zerg just play another class I don’t see where’s the problem .

When I PvE , I always take my warrior, I’m not gonna complain about my engineer that is useless in PvE.

u really just dont get it do u?thief is very well represented in wvw. they even have better aoe than mes and guess what?thif fills the role of ganker and is fairly important to have. mes is veilbot.
and only because we are good in 1v1, doesnt mean that we are not allowed to be good in zergs and viable like everyone else. it does make no sense to design a class that u can only use in 1 gmae mode which is spvp atm, cause verywhere else the lck of group skills and builds shows.
and i really dont care if u take another class in pve, because honestly i also think engi and necro need both help in pve, same as thieves. in wvw rangers and mes need help and also necro needs a few helpful tweaks.
i know atse u hate mesmers and u just keep going with your blind childish hate, but if u would have plaeyed a mes back when glamour was viabe u would understand why wvw mes are unhappy now.
no one in here cares if u have a personal problem with mes and in your case it really is a big l2p issue.
what u do ats, u play your main class u die to this one mes that beats u over and over and now u want to prevent other mesmers to get buffs because u are turning a blind eye on actual issues.
u like dueling, fine!
i like wvw zergbusting and my class has no more role because of countless nerfs and countless buffs to other classes while mes never got anything back. do u think i want to play pu? nope, id rather have a real wvw build which u would never face because for example u would never see a glam mesmer in spvp, but u would see them in wvw.
u cant be that selfish and try to ruin the game for everyone only because u lost to a mes and hate them now.
so please stop posting in every mes forum post u see, noone cares about your hate speech and also stop posting in threads without contributing to the actual discussion! and 1 big important thing: GET OVER IT!

BlackDevil.9268:

Can people start reading? No one is asking for a buff, no one is trying to make staff stronger, everyone with a normal mindset is trying to get staff more reliable instead of Yolo RNG.
Maybe op has to put that in his post cause this is getting more frustrating than playing flappy birds upside-down.

i agree with u. staff is very rng which is a problem because u never know how effective your attacks are. u can be lucky and get a ton of nice condis and daze off, but then u can be unlucky and your chaosstorm deal like no dmg, your phantasm fails to hit anything and your chaos armor is useless. rng is bad and mes has so many skills and traits that only work if a certain thing is fullfilled. some traits only trigger if u kill something, others only trigger is shatter hit other stuff only trigger if u get hit…etc. staff is rng weapon and needs a make over imo!

Spurnshadow.3678:

selan.8354:

i see your points chaos, but i dont think a lightarmor class should be a duelist only. i think we should have the option to spec for aoe at least so we can also be viable in other gamemodes like wvwv raids! thats my only problem and frustration i have with my mes. i would love it otherwise, but the utilitybot role is sooo frustrating!
but yeah i mean mind stab is a joke the way it is right now. we cant cast it while moving and it deals like no dmg….seriously? i would like more interrupts on my mes, so it would be nice if ms could interrupt, but i still want it to be aoe. we got wayyy to many single target skills. i know many people love roaming and duels, well i like wvw and wvw raids so when i see a suggestion, i always try to think of a zergfight and ms as a real aoe could be really helpful.

One of my characters is a mesmer, over 2000 hours, on Blackgate. I primarily WvW. It is great in WvW. I am usually within 600 range of the commander. I hit like a truck, very tough, and offer great team support. Just don’t play a utility kitten role or try to compromise with the commander and use only one skill for utility, like veil, or just get used to swapping it out when you know your commander is going to want it.

Also, lest everyone forget, iZerker hits an infinite amount of targets. It just has a strange hit pattern, but it hits much more than 5 people.

wlll yes u are on bg.. u run with 50-60 other people around as i can see in our current matchup. but not everyone gets to run with such massive blobs around. my guild runs with max 22 people and we zergbust which used to be fun on my mes, but now i swapped my mes out with ele and necro. i think though the whole problem is, that most of those blobs are mainly cc oriented adn mes has no stability…and no the mantra is really not a good option. yes of course u can kite, but not if the whole battle area is filled with 60 people which is 40+ melle hammer cc train main blob. and the rest is gankers and a eles.
i swapped to shatter spec because eventough pu helps to survive, with shatter ican at least do some dmg.
but honestly i prefer my necro because i am a light armor that should do aoe dmg and not be a lightarmor version of thief/ranger mix because thats what mes is atm.
all im asking for is to opportunity to spec for zergfights, which means very little ai and more aoe. thats why glam was so strong.it was non ai based and thats what im missing since the terrible nerfs.
so yeah ms should be an aoe option or even aoe cc.

dancingmonkey.4902:

a t s e.9614:

The mesmer is “balanced” for being strong in 1v1 and weak in group play. I don’t see how you can buff the strongest 1v1 class without making it completely broken .

Thieves also suck in wvw zergs , nobody has ever asked for buffs.

Unfortunately 1v1 is not a game mode, nor is it a frequent occurrence. your point is invalid. The context of the discussion really needs to be relative to group play.

this so much. its horrible game design to balance a class around 1v1 only. also i think its a bad design to make a light aremor class a pet duelist only class. a light armor class needs viable aoe options which mesmer is lacking greatly since the confusion nerf. i play wvw and yes i face masssive mapblobs of around 60. and no im not playing my mesmer during that. i play my necro or ele cause mes is not viavle in such an encounter and especially if u are outnumbered and zergbust.
1v1 is not a game mode. wvw is!and we are lacking there a lot.

Chaos.3579:

selan.8354:

almost everything we have is single target. so yeah chaos storm is good but id like to have more aoe, so making ms a strong multitarget aoe would be great. if it was a stronger aoe i wouldnt mind it not being able to be cast on the move, but right now ms being stale and weak at the same time is not ideal. i do like the rest of our gs though. its one of my favorite weapons.
also chaos armor.. unnerf please. the nerf is ridiculous and made chaos armor kinda useless. but i agree a blastfinisher would be nice too.

I actually don’t like the idea of mesmer having much “controllable aoe”.
I love the fact that we are very single target with a little aoe that is somewhat hard to control (phantasms,shatters)

The issue however is that our very single target skills…..are meh. And this in combination with bugs that takes anet months to fix even though they broke it in the first place (warden). is unacceptable and hurts.

I love how mind stab works and feels. but it lacks power. It lacks a use that is a wow factor.
Now a damage buff would be great. Although I don’t feel that is what it needs.
And if it does get a damage buff I should hope it gets a dynamic damage buff. Aka how many boons the target has/ does not have gives increased damage< something like that.

Ok let’s get down what this skill absolutely needs.

1) a blast finisher……. DUH anet come on!
2) a better effect then just 1 measly boon in a crappy boon rip priority order

And let’s look at some options or combinations of options that anet can do to improve this skill including the above 2 requirements.

• improved boon rip priority order

• increased number of boons ripped

• make it steal the boon ripped

• make it currupt the boon removed (fear on stability rip….so many other possible use’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon )

• dynamic increased damage based on a factor such as number of boons on you or foe or both ect. (Tons of options to make this skill go from meh to WOW based on the situation.)
  (In my personal opinion the damage should increase by 10% per boon on the target. When fighting with gs we have a lot of trouble fighting tanky targets with tons of boons.
  Ele’s, guardians, thiefs with consume ecto, and specific boon bountiful builds on all of the other class’s comes to mind)
  Base damage with full zerker is like 500-1k. 1k-2k on crit. So I cant help but wonder what would happen if we got a 100%-150% damage ish increase resulting in something around 4k against a target with 10 or so boons. Would really change the feeling of weekness we have against those boon spammers.

And if my idea of corrupting the boon removed were to come through?
Watch as those that charge at us with stability run away in fear!!!!

i see your points chaos, but i dont think a lightarmor class should be a duelist only. i think we should have the option to spec for aoe at least so we can also be viable in other gamemodes like wvwv raids! thats my only problem and frustration i have with my mes. i would love it otherwise, but the utilitybot role is sooo frustrating!
but yeah i mean mind stab is a joke the way it is right now. we cant cast it while moving and it deals like no dmg….seriously? i would like more interrupts on my mes, so it would be nice if ms could interrupt, but i still want it to be aoe. we got wayyy to many single target skills. i know many people love roaming and duels, well i like wvw and wvw raids so when i see a suggestion, i always try to think of a zergfight and ms as a real aoe could be really helpful.

a t s e.9614:

No offense but mesmers don’t need any buffs. And I don’t see how it can be difficult to chain a combo or whatever you say. Summoning AI that attacks passively doesn’t look difficult to me.

the mesmer hater again that cant get over it.
i agree with the op infact. as i am not seeing the 1v1 mes only as i play wvw.
and in wvw in group play this issue is quiet big. its not just that we can simply spam ai first of all atse! check those cooldowns, check the builds and then talk like a normal person and stop your hate vs mes already and get over it!get over it!!

on the topic, yes we do lack a role especially in groups and wvw. i think like op said the problem is we got stuff like some cc some punishment som condi some dmg but nothing is really specific. glamour for example was very specific and thats the reason it was so strong, but u had to give up dmg, stealth, survival, deal with long cooldowns…but it was punishing for sure. and that was a clear role the mes had. since the massive nerfs mesmer has gotten, we got nothing back apart from 1v1 stuff which mes was already decent to good at.
and i agree with killahmayne i would love to see mesmer fill the role of punishment and interrupts way more. get something of the gw1 mesmers glory back into this mess. because right now we are utility bots in wvw. we need specific group builds and yes i would rather have less ai and more aoe, cause we are squishy like casters, but cant deal aoe dmg without shatter ip trait. shatters without ip is quiet useless in wvw zergs. ai is useless vs zergs ai traits are useless vs zergs. so allow the mesmer to get builds that are less ai dependant and give us something we can contribute and other classes cant.
i think anet isnt even aware of the wvw problems and i see less and less mesmers in wvw because of this. right now even engi has found its niche in wvw.
so i dont know if cc is the answer, id rather say better interrupt traits and skills and also more punishing, maybe a confusion trait or something like this and some unnerfs and the whole thing would already look better. im happy to give up some ai or anything for that.

i hope devs actually start working on these, cause the list is getting longer and longer.also next time dear devs: these are bug fixes, not buffs, so please dont try to camouflage a bugfix as working on a class. working on our class, improving things that arent well right now like being viable in wvw raids for example is separate from this.
these bugs here dont need to wait till next balance patch. we have waited long enough for many of these to be fixed. so please next patch try to fix a few bugs.