Guild Wars 2

MasterD.4790:

selan.8354:

i get that in t6 things are different but i think u overlook the issue that all playerbased control is slowly taken away from us. wvw is gonna be eotm permanently so maybe as u havent really experienced the higher tiers u might like eotm, but many of us have a ton of alarm bells going up right now…wvw as we know it is gonna be 100% changed and wont be a pvp map anymore its more of an eb jumpingpuzzle type of game play from now on where upgrades dont matter or siege or anything but jumping and capping pve shrines

LoL, I have been in tiers 1-6 and on EU as well. Is this Dekar’s account? I understand the alarm bells about the WP’s but I think the upgrades thing is nice, but I understand the concern of things being taken away.

who the kitten is dekar? and im not on eu im on na! eu is very different in wvw also coverage is different.

Aeolus.3615:

selan.8354:

Aeolus.3615:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Aeolus.3615:

zhonnika.1784:

(…)

Everyone seems to be * basing their OMG off the Alpine map, and we won’t be playing there*. (…)

A wild wise one apeared

The map means absolutely nothing. The changes effect any map because they limit and remove strategies through the core mechanics itself.

i probably didnt understand what u ment, but new BL has more mechanics than the cap n leave present tower, new map has the old elements of the maps that were use to serve has gvg maps.

the alpine map design is something similiar to alliance batle were player blob, divide in groups cap shrines, loose shrines and recap shrines, map design is one of several reasons players behave like this.

Sich.7103:

I am scout, and I will no more scout on the new map… just no interest…

funny becouse map looked like as plenty to scout

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/gw2-new-desert-borderlands-map1.jpg

i think u dont get the point. the new map is an eotm map u dont need scouts the pve elements do this for u as noone can do a sneak attack its all bout the shrines and then the complicated paths that are filled with stupid pve traps and ai and even more pve mobs… and then the upgrades go automatically so ai does everything for us and will probably like in eotm operate the siege…so no u dont need scouts or normal defense or real wvw fights. its a pve driven circus now of and a giant jumping puzzle maze on top of that yay! anet has finally found away to kick the wvw community in the face and pushing them to be on eb only.

this is how its going to happen when hot map gets forced upon us.

game crashes about 5-6 times
players not able to log in
server crashes again
wvw not available for 2 days because of fatal error
keep upgrades are bugged out

day 3

eb queue “your position is 512” 3 hours later yay queue popped….3 minutes play ofh i dced…2 hours later yay eb……. i think u get the idea

First, map elements arent exclusive from pve, second scouts will be more needed than before, due map size, trap/troll group has they take shortcut within the trap zones.
lets ignore the actual crashes and keep reporting them has anet is deploying/preparing content in the updates.
This is certain has u said a kick inthe face, but of the groups that only atack if they outman the other server and quit if they find any kind of resitance, gw2 wvw players need to adapt instead of build 5-8 catas that melt walls on a empty castle they need to think.

Sorry to be obtuse again, i dont see pve elements only….

im not saying its pve only but the pve is too much and too much involved with capping and wvw fights. its not an adapt thing. its changing the game mode. i like when im outblobbed as i love zergbusting those 40+ with my 18 man guild group. its all doable if the composition is right.

we dont need to adapt. gw could have listened to the eotm feedbacks and adapted and made changes that do actually help the outmanned servers and groups. adding pve mobs jumping puzzles ai trap ai control all over the place and shrines that give a pve like buff or something is not the answer! it is destroying wv for people like me.
i hate it! and i really tried eotm i even beta tested it and i hated everything about that map1 all the collect oil and pve mobs and bosses and champions and the endless jumping and getting lost over and over while trying to catch up with my group and then being forced to play a heavy in eotm so i have stability for all the roming trolls that keep pushing u off the edge. its not breaking up blobs it created the karmatrain blobs and the new map will do that too!

im not going to adapt and enjoy this weird pve map that destroys my game mode and game play and all the fun so pve players can have fun in wvw! no ill refuse and ignore that stupid map and queue hours for eb everyday where the skillag will be unbareable because every single wvw driven guild will do the same after day 3!

so what?we all have been spawn camped at some point. i take it with humor and go around. yes we got outblobbed but we still found a way. so what it happened a few times. its not like it happens every day and every night nonstop.

why do u think people transfer to t2 and t3? because they are bored of having nothing to do in wvw if they outman the other servers or if they are tired to be outmanned.

bringing a new map and systems in place that favors pve, ai and npc though is not the answer to the problem of lower tiers. these new systems actually hurt the other tiers that hold a lot of active wvw players way more than your servers. adding pve elements, jumping puzzles, automated upgrades pve mobs and stronger ai and ai traps is not the solution to the issues lower tiers have.
u think its splitting blobs up? no the opposite. we got less waypoints and suuch a horrible complex map that if u die u wouldnt want to go back to your group but are forced to wait till they die so u can play again. so its better running with the whole mapblob so they can rez u. thats why i hate eotm because u cant go anywhere alone! unless u are a thief. where is the fun in that?
u will see much bigger zergs wiht this pve circus map! also pve karma farmaers will join in and enjoy the mindless brain dead pve boss killing zerg and the stupid jumping puzzles and stupid ai traps.

phys.7689:

selan.8354:

phys.7689:

Dante.1763:

phys.7689:

The person said they dont want vertical elements, or chokepoints, or complex terrain. If they dont want a square, what do they want?

people in WvW forums i have seen have been asking for new WvW maps and mechanics for years, so what should that entail?

Anyhow i already conceded, if people really want that, thats what they want. If he and you are right and thats what the people want out of WvW, then maybe anet should provide it. It may bore me, but im one guy.

Im kinda with you, im not big on WVW but the new maps might actually bring me in to playing it, time will tell though.

Ive actually played WvW a bit. It was somewhat fun, but it was also somewhat monotonus. Some of the things about the map design seem like they may have flaws, but the op here seems more against the very idea of change, or complexity within the large scale combat part of things (Terrain, chokepoints, objectives with varying values, coordinated assaults, etc) With that as the main complaint, i dont see how WvW can ever improve or be varied.

ok well u have played it a bit. i see your pov as a casual. many people didnt understand wvw. well but u also gotta understand where people that have played over 4k hours in wvw only. i played pve and leveld my first character. i did events but dont know much about fractals and dungeons eventhough i did do dungeon runs. i wouldnt be able to really give great feedback or understand your pve problems either…

well same here a wvw veteran sees the map and knows its pve dominated and too complex for what wvw is all about. for u u think oh its interesting… well u see it like that because u didnt connect to the game mode.

in spvp people want the map skyhammer also out for a good reason.

a wvw player doesnt want the environment to dominate the fights. ai seems to be dominating and the complex jumps only favors players that already like jumping puzzles they run with speed every day.
im honest i am probably the worst jumper in the game… took me 1.5 hours to do that weird jp in the asura place(sorry dont know the name of the map nor the puzzle). so yeah i dont wanna be useless in wvw because a stupid map dictates me how i have to play and how skilled my jumping is. im a skilled fighter/zergbuster and thats what wvw was for.

now anet takes a lot of that fun awya form us and turns wvw into a pve dominated area…. thats the problem. u dont like wvw? well stay in eotm then that map is perfect for pve players that dont really like the wvw part. and the new map can join eotm as an optional map.

environment is not PVE, pve stands for player versus enemy
EOTM isnt WvW, because the players rarely ever fight each other, and you are not teamed together with your world versus other world

You are overestimating the importance of jumping, specialized teams will take advantage of the jump mechanics, if it was hard, they would lose half their groups trying to do it. This is why they have multiple paths. The new maps also have more roles for groups.

People will learn how to use the environment to their advantage just like they have with the current WvW maps. Which also has hidden paths, short cuts, and environmental advantages.

after a couple weeks the better commanders will know how to lead teams in the zone. After about a month, most of the regulars will know a lot of the tricks, then it will come down to the intellegience of the leadership, and the personal skills of groups to either deal with the enemies advantages, or eliminate those advantages.

And when that gets too cerebral, people will take the simple paths that have less counters for an open fight.

what are u talking about? are u even playing wvw? what do u mean players dont fight eachother? we always always fight eachother. what kind of server are u on? we infact have a community ts we know when 1 map gets attacked and we all port over to defend. scouts tell us when a golemrush is on the way etc. i think u are on a very dead server or are being outblobbed by another server so much that the players only karmatrain. im in t2 atm and was in t3 before that and in both matchups we had great fights everywhere. often we even leave objectives to the enemy and prefer to fight against eachother than to cap the tower!

the current wvw maps do have hidden paths but they are not so complicated. and everyone can follow. the new map is eotm 2.0 and is a pve driven event map rather than a wvw map. eb will be queued to the max and the game will loose a lot of wvw players because eb cant handle t3 full map queues at the same time!

trust me every guild will check out the map and then move over to eb and try to stay there until map is made optional. it has too much pve elements and the environment is to dominant.

Zaklex.6308:

selan.8354:

Safer Saviour.9685:

I always got the feeling that WvW was supposed to be a bridge between PvP and PvE, hence players being able to keep their PvE equipment. This new map definitely has elements of that, but I think the real idea behind it is for players to use the environment as a weapon against other players.

As someone above said, there’s only really one place where players can fall to their deaths, so it’s less like EtoM’s do or die. It just gives players a few more ways to hurt their enemies.

Erm, plus all the lava plus all the random keep jumping stuff etc. You haven’t played the actual map yet but from the look of it it is mainly PvE, and no WvW is not a bridge between PvE and PvP. It’s PvP and if you would be in a true WvW community you would know that. WvW is about battles, not environment PvE stuff. We don’t need AI to do the kills and work for us, we want do it ourselves! We don’t need a PvE boss nor do we need PvE jumping puzzles. All I’m asking for is to make this map optional so the PvE community has their little playground to pretend to do PvP and we can keep the real PvP in WvW.

First, after correcting your post let me state, you’re quite mistaken in thinking that WvW in GW2 was not supposed to be a bridge between PvE and PvP…that was one of the thoughts that went into the design, which is why there has always been PvE elements to WvW. Did you know that data mined map from 2013, Fortunes Vale, was supposed to be the bridge between PvE and WvW? Do you know what you got instead of that map, EotM. As for jumping puzzles, I believe there already is a jumping puzzle in WvW…is there not? So ArenaNet isn’t adding anything that doesn’t already exist in the current WvW maps both EB and Borderlands.

first off before being a smart kitten. english is my forth language unless u are fluent in more languages u might not wanna lecture me with your corrections of a forum post! so dont act like u are the boss cause u are neither my dad nor anyone ill respect enough to lecture me!

secondly yes there is a pve jumping puzzle far far far far away from where the actual wvw is. the eb jumping puzzle even got separated for pve players. the pve elements atm re around the actual wvw part and so they are out of the way. the centaurs, the skritt and all the mobs are not in the way of the actual sieging and battle fields.
even though i didnt like the bloodlust points. i dont mind them as they dont really interfere with our gameplay. they did in the beginning though as the buff was simply too much.

fact is wvw is a game mode that attracts a certain crowd of people. pve players get living story and i hope new dungeons and all that with hot. u guys dont need a new map as u already have a lot of stuff.. as a wvw player i dont own ascended armor, nor do i have a legendary. wvw is not rewarding enough but i dont mind that, because it will keep the brain dead karma/bot trains away.
i dont know how long u have been playing gw2 but i was part since prelaunch and yes when wvw was more rewarding and the kraits and skritt in wvw would drop better loot there were bots infesting wvw for months. we actually would go badge farming with the enemy server together and kill off bots over and over.

wvw is fun for us because we have contrlo and not the environment. yes its a numbers game but this also attracts zergbusting guilds . im sure t4-t6 have less action than what t2 and t3 have, but i like the fights and battles and yes i like beeing the underdog with less population cause then i can zergbust!

the new map changes 90% of wvw gameplay in favor of pve players and braindead karma trains. the new map will destroy wvw and force the leftover crowd to eb!

minbariguy.7504:

Li Xiaolu.4823:

We do not need mounts and we do not want mounts

I think you mean:

“I do not need mounts and I do not want mounts.”

A completely valid position, but you do not speak for everyone.

ok but he speaks for all those people that have in multiple threads already expressed their opinion about mounts. the majority of people say… we dont want mounts we dont need mounts!

hmm check the newest builds and also avoid rangers. they can 1 rapid fire u in seconds to death. bring reflects good condi cleanse and dont go zerk. check the meta builds and follow a grou. thats what i did for 3 days to get slowly back into it. and i did quit for a year aswell.

i get that in t6 things are different but i think u overlook the issue that all playerbased control is slowly taken away from us. wvw is gonna be eotm permanently so maybe as u havent really experienced the higher tiers u might like eotm, but many of us have a ton of alarm bells going up right now…wvw as we know it is gonna be 100% changed and wont be a pvp map anymore its more of an eb jumpingpuzzle type of game play from now on where upgrades dont matter or siege or anything but jumping and capping pve shrines

Aeolus.3615:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Aeolus.3615:

zhonnika.1784:

(…)

Everyone seems to be * basing their OMG off the Alpine map, and we won’t be playing there*. (…)

A wild wise one apeared

The map means absolutely nothing. The changes effect any map because they limit and remove strategies through the core mechanics itself.

i probably didnt understand what u ment, but new BL has more mechanics than the cap n leave present tower, new map has the old elements of the maps that were use to serve has gvg maps.

the alpine map design is something similiar to alliance batle were player blob, divide in groups cap shrines, loose shrines and recap shrines, map design is one of several reasons players behave like this.

Sich.7103:

I am scout, and I will no more scout on the new map… just no interest…

funny becouse map looked like as plenty to scout

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/gw2-new-desert-borderlands-map1.jpg

i think u dont get the point. the new map is an eotm map u dont need scouts the pve elements do this for u as noone can do a sneak attack its all bout the shrines and then the complicated paths that are filled with stupid pve traps and ai and even more pve mobs… and then the upgrades go automatically so ai does everything for us and will probably like in eotm operate the siege…so no u dont need scouts or normal defense or real wvw fights. its a pve driven circus now of and a giant jumping puzzle maze on top of that yay! anet has finally found away to kick the wvw community in the face and pushing them to be on eb only.

this is how its going to happen when hot map gets forced upon us.

game crashes about 5-6 times
players not able to log in
server crashes again
wvw not available for 2 days because of fatal error
keep upgrades are bugged out

day 3

eb queue “your position is 512” 3 hours later yay queue popped….3 minutes play ofh i dced…2 hours later yay eb……. i think u get the idea

phys.7689:

Dante.1763:

phys.7689:

The person said they dont want vertical elements, or chokepoints, or complex terrain. If they dont want a square, what do they want?

people in WvW forums i have seen have been asking for new WvW maps and mechanics for years, so what should that entail?

Anyhow i already conceded, if people really want that, thats what they want. If he and you are right and thats what the people want out of WvW, then maybe anet should provide it. It may bore me, but im one guy.

Im kinda with you, im not big on WVW but the new maps might actually bring me in to playing it, time will tell though.

Ive actually played WvW a bit. It was somewhat fun, but it was also somewhat monotonus. Some of the things about the map design seem like they may have flaws, but the op here seems more against the very idea of change, or complexity within the large scale combat part of things (Terrain, chokepoints, objectives with varying values, coordinated assaults, etc) With that as the main complaint, i dont see how WvW can ever improve or be varied.

ok well u have played it a bit. i see your pov as a casual. many people didnt understand wvw. well but u also gotta understand where people that have played over 4k hours in wvw only. i played pve and leveld my first character. i did events but dont know much about fractals and dungeons eventhough i did do dungeon runs. i wouldnt be able to really give great feedback or understand your pve problems either…

well same here a wvw veteran sees the map and knows its pve dominated and too complex for what wvw is all about. for u u think oh its interesting… well u see it like that because u didnt connect to the game mode.

in spvp people want the map skyhammer also out for a good reason.

a wvw player doesnt want the environment to dominate the fights. ai seems to be dominating and the complex jumps only favors players that already like jumping puzzles they run with speed every day.
im honest i am probably the worst jumper in the game… took me 1.5 hours to do that weird jp in the asura place(sorry dont know the name of the map nor the puzzle). so yeah i dont wanna be useless in wvw because a stupid map dictates me how i have to play and how skilled my jumping is. im a skilled fighter/zergbuster and thats what wvw was for.

now anet takes a lot of that fun awya form us and turns wvw into a pve dominated area…. thats the problem. u dont like wvw? well stay in eotm then that map is perfect for pve players that dont really like the wvw part. and the new map can join eotm as an optional map.

idk im on yb atm and everyone is maintaining and upgrading home bl and siege. we got a ton of scouts and none of the maps are affected by karma trains. we actually wait a while till we cap a tower if we see a fight. the new system takes a lot of player control away and hands it to ai. a lot of the defense is no ai controlled instead of players with all the shrines and weird bosses. the automated upgrades show that anet wants to go eotm only and forgets that true wvw players hate that map because the keeps and upgrades and defense means absolutely nothing. the stupid pve mobs defend lets go karma train.

i certainly wont like a pve map so ill start 8am to queu up for eb so i can play real wvw when i come home from work.

Daywolf.2630:

I just want anet to cycle the maps, maybe even add another more simplistic map with almost no npc’s. For this map, after seeing it on ready up last month (looks good), I’ve been thinking of higher population caps too. Of course that doesn’t do anything for those servers where most of the wvw players transferred out of already. Only solution there would seem to be w+w vs w+w vs w+w hah

this would be ok. i think so the wvw players that enjoy hte eotm style can go to the new map and the wvw playerbase that wants to fight and zergbust gets respected by anet by having a simpler map with no pve content.

Safer Saviour.9685:

selan.8354:

Safer Saviour.9685:

I always got the feeling that WvW was supposed to be a bridge between PvP and PvE, hence players being able to keep their PvE equipment. This new map definitely has elements of that, but I think the real idea behind it is for players to use the environment as a weapon against other players.

As someone above said, there’s only really one place where players can fall to their deaths, so it’s less like EtoM’s do or die. It just gives players a few more ways to hurt their enemies.

erm plus all the lava plus all the random keep jumping stuff petc. u havent played the actual map yet but from the look of it it is mainly pve. and no wvw is not a bridge between pve and pvp. it is pvp and if u would be in a true wvw community u would know that. wvw is about battles not environment pve stuff. we dont need ai to do the kills and work for us. we wanna do it ourselves! we dont need a pve boss nor do we need pve jumping puzzles. all im asking for is to make this map optional so the pve community has their little playground to pretend to do pvp and we can keep the real pvp in wvw.

Actually, WvW is a kind of PvE/PvP hybrid. Breaking down doors and capturing forts is entirely PvE if no one’s actively defending that particular tower and most zergtrains enjoy zooming through empty towers just as much as any other. Certain players and groups do nothing but spread havoc by capping poorly watched camps and towers. Those players are just as much ‘true WvW players’ as any other.

Further, at least three of your ‘jumping puzzle’ pictures don’t seem to actually involve jumping puzzles so much as they have different floor/ridge textures.

From what we’ve seen (which isn’t much), the map seems very much the ‘environmental weapon’ I spoke about before. Fearing enemies off cliffs and into lava, bouncing them back into crevices for easy nuking, sneaky portaling paths in and out of strategic areas. There also seem to be some wide open flats for straight up Zerg vs. Zerg. I suppose we’ll see the balance when testers start releasing screens and thoughts.

in a wvw players eyes those are too complex. with the cc spam all these passages do is favoring classes with high stability! also yeah maybe your zerg zooms through empty towers but on the servers i have been on there were always fights. especially keeps. i zergbust and thats what i think is fun. the new map will tunrn wvw in a pve circus!
i hate jumping puzzles and i am really bad at jumping (unless drunk dont ask why) im good with fighting but the jumping for example in skyhammer they had those weird jump thingies and i hated it and it made me die a lot because in the heat of a fight these stupid obstacles are in my way!!
wvw still isnt pve at all as wvw is boring without players that defend. why do u think there are so many zergbusters around? cause its mass pvp and not pve! idont what kind of wvw u play but capping a tower has always been a pvp event for the normal servers.

is this a pve event for u ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmjL_jbN1jw

atheria.2837:

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

---

Chuckles…I agree with you.

I think the below screen caps you gave earlier…they’re gates into objectives.

These aren’t jumping puzzles though…they’re short cut routes in the new map.

For those with one eye, eye problems, dizziness issues and more, the addition of a jumping anything in WvW is the biggest mistake and seemingly patterned after such things as the holes in the ground that no one can really see no matter what camera angle you’re in – ahem Skyhammer.

Where did they put the fun in WvW?

Dunno, think they decided it was better to stress all players out and have massive blob mentality rule all.

Forget skill, it never was about skill.

Forget about multiple avenues of strategy.

Skill and strategy are about to be yesterday’s news, whatever there was of it in WvW will now be terminally ended.

i agree with you! why cant anet keep the new wvw maps simpler. i dont mind having a valley or anything or even tunnel etc. but the weird jumpings….that is just a massive no no for wvw.wvw is popular because not the envirnment dominates the map its the players who make wvw happen. this new map overpowers the players influence with jumping puzzle like paths …just like the lava running place and the pve traps and ai controled siege. all the traps should only be handled by players, not ai! no weird paths that kill players as they walk past it because the paths dissapear like in skyhammer or it turns into lava or anything. we dont want wvw to become a giant pve jumping maze.
just leave all that stuff out! thats why eotm faield in so many ways!

Diku.2546:

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

They’re not putting in Chests. I was just glad they didn’t say it.

Agree on EotM not geared to WvW fans…I’m a hard core WvW player that plays daily, but I never play in EotM.

I felt it was a lure for PvE players to join the WvW maps.

yes same here. i love wvw and thats all i play i tried eotm but it just doesnt feel right and seems too pve oriented. id say less is more in wvw as the players themself already shape the world the way they need by building siege and upgrade etc. if i was to make a wvw map id allow the players to have even more control over keeps by costumizing the upgrades or even be able to build something with your guild or so…kinda like camelot unchained concept

it looks like eotm and eotm is very very pve heavy and ai dominated.thats why i think this map should be optional. if people like the map after playing it and i mean the wvw core player base then yes implement it. otherwise leave it like eotm optional

phys.7689:

selan.8354:

Daddar.5971:

If we just do enough hero challenges on all our characters we’ll all finally see their true value and learn to love them. Communing with places of power and ingesting random food and drink just can’t be matched by any other gaming experience. I know the challenge of doing those things will make me feel like a hero who’s really earned the right to get my skills and traits back. Silly me, I deserve to have my progress reset for dinking around in WvW instead of PvE, where the real challenge is!

pve a challenge.?yeah bashing a mob by spamming 11111111 is sooo challenging right hahaha

and yet you dont want more challenging AI anyhow, so why do you even bring it up?

i hate ai cause it has nothing to do with wvw. wvw is pvp so yeah i wann kill players im not scarred of ai but i dont wanna fight ai if i wanna fight ai ill go pve and braindead spam 111 in my war on a boss that spawns every 2 hours!

Daddar.5971:

If we just do enough hero challenges on all our characters we’ll all finally see their true value and learn to love them. Communing with places of power and ingesting random food and drink just can’t be matched by any other gaming experience. I know the challenge of doing those things will make me feel like a hero who’s really earned the right to get my skills and traits back. Silly me, I deserve to have my progress reset for dinking around in WvW instead of PvE, where the real challenge is!

pve a challenge.?yeah bashing a mob by spamming 11111111 is sooo challenging right hahaha

Safer Saviour.9685:

I always got the feeling that WvW was supposed to be a bridge between PvP and PvE, hence players being able to keep their PvE equipment. This new map definitely has elements of that, but I think the real idea behind it is for players to use the environment as a weapon against other players.

As someone above said, there’s only really one place where players can fall to their deaths, so it’s less like EtoM’s do or die. It just gives players a few more ways to hurt their enemies.

erm plus all the lava plus all the random keep jumping stuff petc. u havent played the actual map yet but from the look of it it is mainly pve. and no wvw is not a bridge between pve and pvp. it is pvp and if u would be in a true wvw community u would know that. wvw is about battles not environment pve stuff. we dont need ai to do the kills and work for us. we wanna do it ourselves! we dont need a pve boss nor do we need pve jumping puzzles. all im asking for is to make this map optional so the pve community has their little playground to pretend to do pvp and we can keep the real pvp in wvw.

Zackie.8923:

the should just get rid of all servers, do the 3 color thingy, eotm style

this time zone has a lot of people? no problem, eotm style can add more instances to settle it.

this time zone is dead? no problem, eotm style can reduce instances to settle it.

no because then all of wvw will turn into an eotm idont care style…which will happen anyways as the new map is eotm on steroids with extra pve and jumping puzzles in it

phys.7689:

selan.8354:

if this was another eotm like map i wouldnt mind it so much, but this pve map is replacing our borderlands….please make eb bigger and increase the map cap cause once this map is forced upon us every true wvw guild will queue for eb. we hated eotm we wont like this map.

to be honest, the main problem with the eotm map is that it isnt wvw. Its not server based, the score doesnt matter.

i think people will enjoy playing with their groups and servers in new maps. The npcs, and buffs wont stop people from playing.

it will push everyone and his mother to go to eb as it will be the only real wvw map. if eotm was pushed to replace a current borderland map i would have quit a long time ago. this new map is horrible and nothing more than a jumping puzzle circus for pvers. its plain stupid form a wvw persepctive. it will not be fun and will push everyone that loves wvw away….cant wait for camelot unchained as it will be pve free!

Trajan.4953:

Honestly, and from only my perspective, zergs will die in the new maps.
This will be all about small groups, small defense groups and coordination from all angles. I do not think that EOTM tactic will work.
Also I think the old WvW meta will die here and a new breed of commanders and players will rise.

yes pve players only. and no there will be zergs and they will alll be eotm pve scrubs hunting for pve mobs to do pve stuff. wvw as it is is completely destroyed by these changes!

Trajan.4953:

So, I have to ask…
There are many players who like to take the role of defenders and take upgrades etc under their wing… what happens to them?

well all the servers i have been on have scouts/defenders at all time. people that maintain siege and help with upgrades.

Offair.2563:

selan.8354:

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

Seems like they do listen to us.

Anet: what would you guys like to see?
Players: Less pve!
Anet: ok more pve, coming!

hahaha so true. we even gave them a detailed list of things that were wrong with eotm and things that could improve it..

oh and also
spvp community: we hate skyhammer
anet:ok lets put skyhammer elements into wvw map for hot

lordkrall.7241:

How does the shrines put less strategy in WvW? It is yet another thing that you need to take into consideration before you attack the enemy. As of right now you can basically attack anything in a map without having to worry about anything other than where the enemy zerg is. With the new maps you also have to take shrines and such into account before attacking.

AI have controlled the vast majority of WvW since release, not much is changed in regards to that (except for the upgrade system that is, but that also add an extra layer of strategy now that you can’t completely stop it by just killing dollies, but you actually have to capture the place).

AI won’t run in and take over stuff though, they will defend stuff more or less exactly as they do now (oh, except for the AI that actually attacks stuff nowadays, which as far as we know, won’t be there in the new maps).

And you also bring up another thing that very much increase the strategic point of the map: The fact that it will take some time to rejoin a zerg. That means you have to actually think before just mindlessly engage enemies and also decide if it is worth the chance to rez someone or if they would be better of just running back.

what are u talking about. the keep lords? the keeplords melt in like 10 seconds its all about players fighting players defending and siegeing. the ai dies right away and the only way to defend your keep is to push the enemy back. we dont need ai defending our keeps better. that is what wvw is all about. wvw is a war u use scouts etc to spot an enemy zerg. u inform your people and start defending. i dont need a kitten pve mob boss to defend my keep. i dont need pve traps and jumping puzzles. thats what many many many core wvw players hate abput eotm.

the ai is dominating wvw in eotm. the shriens are pointless cause the karmatrain will just take it anyways. eotm is so weird its a pve circus instead of wvw battle field.

and now they even add skyhammer elements into the new map skyhammer is the biggest troll spvp map there is. people hated it and now ther is a stupid keep with those elements. in eotm the cannons are even ai operated. where is the fun in this? yes the keep lords could be a little stronger but thats really it. we dont need all that weird stuff they are adding! its horrible and destroys the whole feeling of wvw.

i avoid and hate jumping puzzles so now im forced to do a jumping puzzles so i can get to my guild..ugh.and to be honest id rather have a flat simple map so cc spam and stability issues arent so dominant.

in wvw simple is better as the players control the maps not ai!

i would love to be able to dye my weapons. there are some real nice weapons out there that i would pick up if i could dye them

lordkrall.7241:

So all in all, what you want is a completely flat map with a grand total of nothing there except for flatness?

AI mobs have been a part of WvW since before release. That is nothing new. Jumping puzzles isn’t really PvE either but rather something that makes the map more interesting to maneuver.

The “ai controlled shrines” simply puts more strategy into the maps, which means that you actually have to plan and thing before just rushing blindly into the enemy keep/tower/whatever.

im not talking about the usual deers and coytes. ai controled shriens do not put more strategy into wvw id does less. im not talking about a complete flat map. there is a huuuuge difference between the current borderlands that arent flat and the jumping puzzle map they are showing us. we are giving ai full control over everything its not about fighting anymore its about capping ai npc points so the ai can do all the work for us.

i like pvp not pve and jumping puzzles are a part of pve. its not interesting to me to have to jump and climb and all that in order to get to 1 single fight. i play wvw as a zerg buster and thats what i like. and yes there are fail pushes but this map will make it impossible to keep up with your guild as u have to walk for 1ages to get back. its exactly like eotm. if this was ike eotm an optional map i wouldnt complain or mind that. but its forced upon us. ill queue up for eb for 5 hours just to avaiod this horrible pve map! an im sure many wvw players will do the same.

borgs.6103:

I’ve got a valid question:
Are these changes the fruit from the ideas of the WvW CDI months ago?

i dont think so. soo many ideas were thrown out there and some were amazing ideas. i think anet doesnt really understand the core of wvw still. look at the new map its worse than eotm….its a giant jumping puzzle pve map instead of a battle ground map that gives wvw players a lot of room to use different strategies.
the way points are just like eotm. and u know its horrible if u die once in eotm it takes u aaaaages to get back to your guild and u will get lost cause the map is too complex.

old system=players control and dominate maps
new system=ai and map dominates over wvw

lordkrall.7241:

selan.8354:

yep they are turning wvw into a pve map for pve farmer trains. yep big change there. im glad they announced this early so most of the wvw community can cancel their preorders.

How are they turning WvW into a PvE map when they basically remove the ability to PvE in order to stop towers/keeps/castle from upgrading?
That means they REMOVE a PvE-part of the game mode rather than adding more.

I also question how one can cancel a preorder when it is not possible to preorder yet. At least not for real.

erm by implementing jumping puzzles and introducing pve bosses and ai controlled shrines and ai controlled maps and more jumping puzzles…….

if this was another eotm like map i wouldnt mind it so much, but this pve map is replacing our borderlands….please make eb bigger and increase the map cap cause once this map is forced upon us every true wvw guild will queue for eb. we hated eotm we wont like this map.

choovanski.5462:

I’m excited to hurl other players off cliffs

that exactly one of the issues. it will lead to people only choosing classes with massive stability upkeep which favors of course the heavy and the GEWN meta will turn into a GW meta.. bu thats just one of the issues such a map creates. non meta classes have found ways around the wvw issue.

what concerns me is all the pve events and making taking a keep more of a pve event than an actual siege defense. all the shrines and jumping around turns our borderlands into a circus for pve farm trains.

instead of giving us more control over the keeps and towers in other ways, they replace all our control by ai control. so pve elements control wvw now not the players not our tactics not our ninja attack.

and worst parts are all the jumping puzzle elements. i always hated jumping puzzles in any game. i haaaate them. i think they are stupid and i needed to be portaled to every single one in this or it would take me like 2 hours to do them. now anet forces me instead of pvp going through this painful jumping….

depends on what your playstyle is and what game mode

lordkrall.7241:

webtoehobbit.4201:

I’m just tired of ANet’s imaginary hype. If there is nothing “big” for the following week, then be up front with us. But Rubi said there was something really special. Stop trying to hype something that isn’t there. We are all tired of it, stop treating us like kids.

But it is big.
The rebuilt Lion’s Arch is special stuff.

And the WvW changes are big, no matter how much you hate it.

Why should they stop treating people like kinds when people clearly behave like kids?

yep they are turning wvw into a pve map for pve farmer trains. yep big change there. im glad they announced this early so most of the wvw community can cancel their preorders.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Bettik.4982:

Torgrim.3642:

It will turn into a big freaking karma bonanza train.
There is no point in defending anymore, why should we defend it will be upgraded anyway.

because if you don’t defend it, and escort yaks, it won’t get upgraded. if anything it totally encourages a more defensive playstyle.

won’t get upgraded? It will auto upgrade with or without yaks, yaks just speed it up. Only way to stop that would be for the enemy to flip it, which then will auto upgrade for them.

exactly and thats an issue. also anet is taking a lot of player control away and its a step in the wrong direction. id say more player controll and less ai control would be better.

i know anet has been working a lot for the new map and i dont wanna be ungrateful, but the new wvw map looks like its going to be just like eotm.
as a wvw player since release i would like to ask if we can make the new map like eotm optional as it has so much pve and ai control that it ruins the whole feeling of wvw.
as a wvw player i dont care for chests or fancy rewards, my reward is when my guild zergbusted a map blob out of the map.

by adding more ai, more events a, more npc operated siege and traps, more ai influence and npc influence u take all that control a wvw player has away.

u make an ai trap pushing players off the cliff….thats pve jumping puzzle …id rather do this myself! build a trap at the right time at the right spot and then a few enemies get pushed off the cliff. woohoo that is giving me as a player a feeling of accomplishment. i dont need that simplified by ai.

u add shrines that give weird buffs…we dont need buffs cause the outmanning servers will get all ogf them and then dominate the other 2 servers for the rest of the week. also shrines are a pve thing again because u have to kill a pve boss that probably will give a pve chest. we dont need that because it will atract bots and pve farm karmatrains.

u add a bunch of npcs and stronger guards like in eotm. we are the defenders not the ai. they are currently there and i think fine as they are. a wvw player would rather fend off the enemy with self built siege which they man. with a well place cannon shot or a well placed trebshot…etc

the map looks too complex.
this is a big one that really bugged me in eotm already. the passages are too narrow and confusing. in eotm i get lost all the time because the map is to vertical. it also give trollbuilds an advantage over others because they can just spend all day pushing and pulling people off cliffs. like in skyhammer! the new map had those elements and they need to be removed as they are pve jumping puzzle parts and also rewards troll metas.
eotm also doesnt offer enough space fore epic battles to happen. too many pve elements are interfering. there are random cannons firing at u and random mobs all over the place. i mean imagine a zergbusting group. they rush into a zerg with around 15-18 players vs around 40-60 the enemy taggs a bunch of mobs mobs die the zerg rallies off the pve mob and then u are low health and som random ai pve addon hits u an ai operated cannon or some random mob or a pve boss etc… thats why most wvw guilds dont go to eotm.

a wvw player only goes to eotm to either
a.karma train
b. go troll the karma pve farmers
c. to level up a new class

for actual gameplay and fun we stay in our borderlands and eb

so please anet make the new map optional and give it to the pve players. if u want a new borderland map. simple is more is the key and remove all ai and pve from it. give the players more control.

Ben K.6238:

Don’t know where you’ve been for the last two years, but it already is a karma train. This just means players aren’t wasting gold upgrading stuff that’s only going to get nightcapped anyway.

If anything it makes structures easier to defend, because they’re more likely to be upgraded when that becomes necessary. Yes, it’s hard to take back towers and keeps from a larger server, but those servers are upgrading them anyway, so it’s not going to make a difference there.

it will make a difference and no its not a karma train i dont know which pve server u are on then.

is eb gonna stay?please leave eb! at least 1 map real wvw players can escape to ons hot and the new pve map hits wvw… or could we just test the map out first as putting it in as an option like edge of the mists. so true wvw players can test it out first?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Agreed. The new map looks like it has way too much PvE in it for me to enjoy. Remove all the random eagle griffins and what not from the current map and put it on a weekly rotation.

this so much. i saw it and wanna scream! its soooo complex. all wvw maps need is 3 keeps ,that can be complexer as they are atm and a bunch of towers that are further away from eachother and a lot of areas for big battles.
we dont need traps, i dont want eotm style jumping
we dont need complex paths
we dont need shrines
we dont need pve mobs
we dont need pve events….

do not do this ANET!!!! leave the old maps then! just allow us to keep them i hate hate hate this new map its worse than eotm. its going to be a karma famr with stupid pve 111 spammers that will clogg up the queues and lag out the game. we dont want pve players in wvw. let them go gold farm and spam 111111 on the same boss foran hour or 2 but keep them out of wvw!

IndigoSundown.5419:

How many times has WvW been predicted to be on the verge of dissolution now? Changes to the game will certainly bring changes to the mode. People will adjust.

no not a change that turns wvw into a pve karmatrain.

KittyCatMeow.5764:

I’m little confused at 7:24 time shows blue owning garri on enemy red map but has a wp garri and has sw tower wp ??
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

aww look at all those nice pve things they added to our pvp wvw area. oh and look we can do jumping puzzles now too and cap shrines yay. eotm 2….awesome for the new pve karmatrain woohoo when u die u wont be able to go to your guild as u have to a slve jumping puzzle nr1 and b kill 15 pve mobs and then maybe go collect some awesome pve stuff so the pve karmatrain can do this awesome pve event they put into wvw.

seriously anet after u realeased eotm u knew that all core wvw players hated the map. it is too complex and has way too much pve and no player control and then it gives too much pve rewards… eotm is a joke for us we laugh at the map we troll the pve players. and now u bring out a map that is absolutely pve based and not wvw battle based…gg wvw bye bye wvw community. hello stupid 111 spamming pve karma trains . bye bye good awesome wvw fights, bye bye gvg bye bye zergbusting wvw is now a pve map!

nope not anymore. loved the changes to some classes…now checking out wvw …sorry anet is destroying the core of wvw and turns wvw maps into a giant circus for pve karma trains with its stupid pve events they are going to add.

wvw was a special game mode for people that liked battles and siege. and yes zergs or roaming. looking at the new map and the terrible terrible horrible pve stuff they put in it. this map is even worse than the biggest wvw fail map eotm that is a map for pver karma trains.

i dont want wvw map that are so complicated like eotm
i hate jumping puzzle styles in wvw
i hate pve mobs in wvw
i hate stupid npc pve mob shrines that do pve stuff
im certainly not collecting random stuff like ice shards and stupid oil and all that random pve element they put into eotm.

gg anet u will lose the entire wvw community with this pve stuff u put in. pve players have a ton of maps and eotm. keep wvw borderland maps
pve free
karma train free
pve mobs free (camps are ok)
shrine free
pve traps free
jumping puzzle free
PVE EVENTS FREEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and keep the map simple! we dont need it as complicated as eotm.

great just give us an option to stick to the old map so we dont have to deal with this disaster map u call borderland! its not its a stupid pve map!
we told anet for years that we hate pve in wvw. we told anet eotm was not a good map for wvw players and now u make borderland maps with mainly pve events that drop chests? this screams karma train pve karmatrain and its absolutely terrible.

i was soo excited fot hot. so excited to finally play my mes in wvw again as a chronomancer and now i see what u are doing to wvw…nevermind then aint gonna buy this now. my game mode has been destroyed .

Diku.2546:

Hi everybody,

p.s.
Also, noticed that there’s going to be PvE style event that occurs every 3 hours. Winner gets a weapon that will attack your stronghold to help breach gates. Glad they didn’t say it would give a Tequatl style Chest. Imagine all the PvE players coming in every 3 hours just for this.

omg that will destroy wvw for good. a stupid chest a stupid pve mob for pve players to do something npc like which is pve. this is terrible and a stupid idea sorry anet but we dont want your pve karma trains in wvw. we wanna fight server vs server not server vs stupid ai npc pve mobs we dont want it we dont need it it has to go! we got stupid eotm for your pve crowd we dont want pve scrubs in wvw. this will push the entire wvw community away. we dont need npcs we dont want pve in wvw, we told u this for years! how long is anet going to ignore the fact that a true wvw player doesnt need shrines nor npc traps nore pve mobs!

rank 10000=legendary of your choice. tadaaa!

cant wait to test!!! i want hot now! :-)

im concerned too. the upgrades and the trailer of the new map just scream eotm 2 and eotm is pretty unpopular among the wvw population. maybe the shrines can be made less pve/ less pve stupid mobs and turned int ta roamer kinda thing like bloodlust.
honestly the trailer shows npc traps and thats a big nono for wvw. we dont want jumping puzzsles, we dont want less player control, we actually want more controll and less pve mobs and pve content. nobody cares for the centaurs for a reason! we dont want pve we want pvp no pve mobs. those stupid deers and what not everywhere already rallie downed opponents all the time.
the new upgrade system could turn wvw into a new pve karma train where keeps and upgrades dont matter. please anet check again what wvw needs and remove all pve crap of the new map and check again if automated upgrades are a step in a good direction.

i think automated upgrades could help out outmanned server but will also help the zergs cause they can keep bullying the outmanned servers untill every single tower they took is upgraded….we will see how that plays out.

what could destroy wvw however is if the new maps are like eotm with too much pve content like npv cannons and npc traps and pve mobs ….and please anet NO SHRINES!!!

urieldhynne.2743:

No advantage for WvW players, and an stat advantage for who farm to craft ascended…

this so much. most of the wvw players that i knowdid get ascended weapons while having to grind their crafting to kitten 500 and then had to buy all the mats cause a wvw player doesnt really farm at all. most of the pve players have full ascended and legendary weapons….. thats their bonus. leave our applied fortitude and guard stacks as we earned it the same way the pve players have earned their ascended.

u are new to wvw.. well welcome to hard work. it doesnt mean u will get 1 shot the moment u set foot on a borderland. it means u deal alittle less dmg than someone with guard stacks. so what?its not the end of the world.

i see where u are coming from .
here my thoughts

i get that anet tried to support especially outmanned servers with the automated updates. i think on reste the home bls should always be all owned by your server and structures upgraded. so an outnumbering server cant just run up to hills or bay and take it before your guys even get there.
id be all for an option of automated repairs etc but the automated upgrades do take a lot of player control ansd and strategic game play away. yes outmanned servers had problems upgrading, i played on the outmanned servers most of the time as my guild loves zergbusting.
also trolls/spies wont be able to queue merchants anymore when not needed etc. but still the autom,ated upgrades will ad a certain timeer on it which is a very very very very bad thing for wvw.
we already have dragon timers and boss timers and temple timers in pve. now u are ading automated upgrades to wvw= a pve feature= people will know exactly when upgrades are finished even without yaks.

i dont know if anet really undestands the core of wvw.
if they would eotm would have never been made.
i think there are some core missunderstandings.

wvw player: we want a new map, we want changes, no updates ever. give us some love.

anet’s answer: eotm and bloodlust capping….

eotm map: wayyy way way way way too complex for a wvw map
way way way troo many npc to fight.
the keeps are meanigless
they are too big too complex and players keep getting lost
map is too vertical too much jumping and cliffs involved
shrines that give overpowered buff again a pve content no core player of wvw likes it.
shrines are terrible. npc bosses to kill in airplaine weird thing
collecting oil?1 o.0 this is wvw/pvp./ a battle field i dont want to collect stupid oil thats pve.

simple is more.
no weird cliffs or nps traps. less pve /mobs/bosses.
nice flat areas for massive battles,nice choke points.
waypoints always in keep(my opinion)

keeps can be reworked and little more complex yes but not like eotm random npc cannons and npc traps etc. rather have players control siege and traps.

keeps should have additional upgrades so a fully upgraded keep cant be taken in 2 min by golem rush.
have more chokepoints that cannot be zoomhacked or ele metorshowered
make walls safer for defenders so outnumbered servers actually have a chance to defend.

automated upgrades i fear will turn wvw into a new pve kinda event timer as in : “guys their garri is about to upgrade in 5 min lets do the golem rush now”

maybe have the borderland upgraded and ready for defense at reset so outnumbered servers have more chance to defend.

dont give pve rewards. make it a wvw reward zone only so no karma trains!

Wallace MacBix.2089:

selan.8354:

but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

But that isn’t how they said it is going to work. Skills and traits are coming from a finite resource, hero points. Badges are infinite, also account bound so you then could get your lvl 2 character to unlock everything. Also, many non-WvW players have plenty of badges thanks to Achievement Point rewards, so your idea just serves as a short cut/exploit around their intended system.

Plus, sorry to burst your bubble, but they have also mentioned that to learn of the new elite specs you’ll have to go into the new maps (ie PvE). I don’t know if that’s true/will stay that way (as it invalidates all of the extra HP’s in the core world), but it is what they said.

Plus a lot of you are forgetting how the game was at launch. You didn’t have a mass of tomes flowing in from PvP (or through achievement points), so you could only level in PvE or through a train in WvW if you were lucky (since no EotM). And there were no champ bags or skill point scrolls, so if you wanted to learn all of your skills you had to level up again via exp past 80.

All of the things since then (tomes, skill point scrolls, writs, etc.) have just been shortcuts for the base system of having to “level up” past 80 to learn all your skills. All they are doing is replacing that core system with a new one.

Honestly, so many of you are acting like this is some huge betrayal, when it’s just a change that you can adapt to in about 1-2 hours of “work”. Of which, they’ve given you a month’s notice now, and it’s still a ways away. If you want to unlock everything again (which has been stated multiple times that it isn’t needed, and no one has yet to give a good reason why other than “because I want it without any effort”) just do the bit of leg work. Otherwise, learn to live without a set of utilities that you most likely don’t even use.

yes i did play gw2 from the very beginning with early access and yes i did my pve. but as a veteran player i dont want to have to go through all that boring kill 5 spiders go kill 15 chickens and collect the eggs because i said so…. or wait for 20 minutes or 2 hours till a dragon spawns. i did all that already. im level 80 on all my character and i want to be able to unlock all my skills when i log in. without pve! ill buy it ill pay all the gold i have even gems just to avoid the pve trains.

RabbitUp.8294:

selan.8354:

i mean anet always favors pve players even made a wvw map for pve players called eotm which is horrible and a boring ktrain for a wvw player. but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

And how is that more fair?

I don’t know any PvE players that exclusively play to unlock skill challenges. They do fractal runs, dungeons, world bosses, and all of them will have to do something else, ie skill challenges, to get hero points.

So, there are 13 skill challenges in WvW. If they reward 5 hero points each, or if they add 52 more to get the 65 you need, will you stop complaining? They would be part of WvW, then.

actually no i want to be able to unlock all my skills through wvw not pve maps where i have to farm some boring mobs for each class i wanna play in wvw. i want to be able to unlock all my skills for wvw without being forced to play boring pve! i think pve is very boring and i tried it. i ran a few fractals ran a few dungeons but i havent even gotten my ascended armor cause fariming for mats is even more boring! let me just buy the skills ill even pay gems.
just no pve!! ill have to play pve for days to get all my skills for each class… i log into gw2 for good fights good zergbusts good organized wvw raids with my guilds. i dont care about anything else.