Guild Wars 2

oh man how do i miss glamour with my guild:

hmm i like the idea, but honestly we need non ai traits.the reason mesmer is not doing well in group fights is because ai is terrible in groupplay. we need a non ai traitline imo

Me Games Ma.8426:

Delete: Mesmer
Add: Mesmer

Why? Because the Mesmer as a Class should be based on control, hexes and interruption. It’s a profession that knows a reaction against everything. Not all in one build . that should be sure ^.^

Bring back the old gw1 mesmer and i’m happy =)
I’d rather ask for a rework^^

this sooo much!!delete the clone ai wanna be thief squishy bugged useless class and bring back the real mesmer!

1.aoe
2aoe
3 fix the kitten bugs

why are we even fighting guys. yes mesmers have reached the bottom of the bottom and are barely fun to play and rangers are right down there with us. rangers need buffs too and i get that.
we both have the right to complain, cause we lack in many aspects of the game. yes ranger can pick on a single target and so can mes, but thats not the issue. the issue is that both classes cant contribute well ingroup play.

i used to love my mes in wvw, now i havent played it in over 2 months cause yeah well i like wvw zergbusting, so i went ahead and made a necro. and yes i did try ranger and i see very similar issues there. too many traits are wasted on a pet that dies in less than 10 seconds in a zergfight, mes cant use illusions nor can they shatter.
people that say mes doesnt need help, see the mes in 1v1 and roaming. yes thats about the only thing we can do. 1v1 and thats it. in a group we lack dmg, aoe dmg and even in support we are lacking and we also dont really fit into the role of the backline ganker as thats the thieves job and they do it well!
same with the ranger no role in group play, they can take down a single target, but what about a large scale fight? war outshines their bow skills by far, they dont have much group support, nor enough aoe to really be useful. so yeah i agree ranger needs help… a lot of it! but arguing here about mes needing buffs makes like no sense at all. we both are in the same boat and both need massive rework!
so can we stop the fights over who deserves buffs and who doesnt?

trying to skip someone while waiting in line, but getting stuck on the napkin on the floor.

Ansau.7326:

I think people has taken the iLeap nerf too much serious. For a lot of people it was the last straw from the last year of nothing but bugs and general nerf of the class, but we still have our strengths.
We’re still really strong in roaming; rangers, thiefs and engis would kill to have at least an essential skill like veil in zergs; and in PvE we still have our unique mechanics.

Yes, we’re not in a good position, but it’s also true ours is not such horrible as some people want to see.

honestly, i wish they would nerf veil to the ground so it only stealths 2 people, so everyone that mentions stupid veil as a reason mes is strong would realize that there is nothing else we got that is unique to the class. problem is that every class can pretty much do what we can but with less effort. yes we got clones, but the bugs make all our stupid ai useless. if they would have at least fixed the ai, things wouldnt look as terrible as they are right now….apart from wvw where ai is useless.
yes, if u roam and 1v1, u might find mesmer strong.i can 1v1 no problem apart from regen war which i cant even kill on my power necro, but a class should never ever been a 1v1 class ever. every single class should be viable in every single game mode. anet stated play how u wanna play. well, i love zergbusting! how about that one…oh thats right i cant on mes cause mes cant deal aoe dmg and ai dies in seconds before dealing dmg. i used to be able to though and it was soooo much fun.
yes glamour was op at the time when people didnt care about condi cleanse, but in the current meta it wouldnt.
we’ve been waiting for more than a year to get a replacement for glamour nerf in wvw, but all we got was bugs, usless things and nerfs. i havent played my mes properly in like 2 months because i cant anymore. ive tried every single build out there. i went from triforce, glam torment hybrid, glass phantasm, glkittenter to pu condi and then pu power, then lockdown builds, tried out all the new traits, even when anet claimed there was a signet mesmer build, i was like well lets see…..not 1 single build felt it was fitting for wvw/ they all sorta did something, but felt like improvising some sort of build that other classes get with less effort.
yes thief is more of a 1v1 class too, but thief is a medium armor class and can burst 1 target down in seconds. if a mes hits my necro in a wvw zerg, i simply move closer to my team where its ai gets killed in 1 second.
yes of course a mes can kill my necro in a 1v1 moment there, but thats why people stay close tho their group so thieves and mes wont gank them.
but yeah my problem is, i want my mes to do what i used to do in wvw again. i want us to be able to deal aoe dmg, move away from veilbotting, deal dmg, get lootbags, tag, and kill mindless zergs.
and btw i would kill to get cc like engi, or burst and low cd’s like thief. mes lacks a role and the role should not be utilitybot, as this is not a role!

well reason is simple. mesmer is still capable to shine somewhat in 1v1 encounters. we all agreed with that. but most of the time u dont have those encounters. in spvp u will face multiple enemies and yes to still survive u will need a lot whereas with any other class u can do things easier.
in wvw mes is fading away and only reason to bring it is veil. pve… sorry but the loot is terrible u get on mes. especially if its multiple enemies. while im still strong in 1v1, i lack everything in groupplay. if this was a single player game, i wouldnt even complain, but i like other game modes. i love wvw and it used to be fun, but now wvw is a grind on mesmer. i can t deal aoe dmg, its hard to survive, i cant kill regen war, my illusions are useless, i have no stability, i got barely any multitarget skills, i have a hard time to keep up with my team due to out of combat speed being terrible and on top of that, mes has soo many bugs, its not even funny.
lately ive only played my necro and shelved my mesmer i have been playing since release. i used to raid with AVTR in wvw and yes we did kill a ton of players with glamour and even with triforce after that. countless nerfs though have destroyed the fun for mes though and the bugs keep adding up. so yeah thats why mes has reached to bottom of the bottoms….

1.mesmer
2.wvw mesmer
3. tpvp mesmer

Curunen.8729:

…being in the percussion section in an orchestra, but not playing the timpani – you may be able to use a variety of utility instruments if they’re needed in a piece – too bad that most of the time you have nothing to do and are almost never recognised, while the strings/brass/woodwind all get on with it.

yep wvw on daily base

frifox.5283:

I think I have finally figured out what life is as a mesmer

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meciMILcffk

hahaha omg i just spit out my drink when watching this. that is exactly how mesers life is these days. best video ever

immobilize does some weird stuff to a mes thats for sure. if u blink while immobilized u risk to get stuck and only /dance or so can free u. i havent experienced the nullfield bug yet. but ill see if i can test it.

Sergoros.4398:

Kicast.1459:

I forgot the nerf of chaos armor on staff…lol

U forgot alot. Like big phantom summons nerf. In old days phantom summons couldn’t miss or be obstructed. But it is understandable. There was so much nerfs, that it would be alot of work to remember all of em.

that nerf was understandable as u could summon phantasms even if u were hiding behind a building, but they never fixed the bugs they introduced with the nerf as obstructed happens nonstop no. los issues are pretty bad if u play wvw, cause uneven terrain will cause an ostructed and u cant hit anything on walls anymore. same with the gs buff that introduced a bug that allowed mesmers to hit 3 targets on top of wall without los, but when they fixed that buf, they made it nearly impossible for us to hit anything with gs aa on walls too. also if u wanna spawn a phantasm from on top of a building u will have to stand on the very edge in order to spawn it, etc.

so yeah los issues are a pain in wvw and most likely will never get fixed.

Neptune.2570:

Feels like being Tyrion in the Lannister family of guild wars professions.

haha that one sums it up!yep +1 from me XD

mesmer has been my main since release and i did love the class soo much. i couldnt wait to log on to play wvw everyday after work. then confusion nerf happened and i still ha hope we would get something back. every patch i was hoping mes would be given something new for wvw.
glamour was the ultimate punishing build that was able to stop those mindless zergling. i can remember when my guild faced AVTR for the first time and blew up in purple dmg cause we didnt use much condi cleanse. we adjusted and were one of the first guilds that actually was able to deal with the mesmer deathsquad. when they joined our server, i joined their guild and omg it was sooo much fun to play, but the countelss nerfs, made mes less viable with every patch.
less and less builds were viable and the buffs to other classes whild mes received further nerfs, ruined the fun.
nowadays i gave up. i have waited for more than a year for anet to give mes something back for wvw, but i have like many of us lost faith and hope anything will ever change for this class.
the bugs are unbareable, the nerfs turned us into utilitybots which isnt fun andthe lack of aoe makes us useless in wvw.
roaming is a choice not a game mode really. somepeople like to play solo and im sure a few will still have some fun, but for anyone that likes wvw raids and zergbusting and enjoyed mesmer the way it used to be, this class is not fun anymore.
we lack a role
we lack aoe
we lack builds
welack bugfixing
we lack attention and improvements given by anet
we have to invest soo much just to accomplish 1 thing that anyother class can do too, but better
and yes perpelexity runes were a huge massive slap in the face!!!
this class shuld be turned back into the original role it had in gw1:punisher instead of a squishy, slow, bugged ai pet class!

yes chaos armor was great and so was mes during that time cause it was a punishing class, that punished mindless spamming zergs. now it is a bugged petclass that can 1v1 new unskilled players.

Sergoros.4398:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

I guess I’ll have to break it down for you.

Veil – Allows for pin point repositioning of an entire zerg. Smashing into back lines with a hammer train can win 2-3v1 easily.

Mass Invis – I don’t see this used as often but follows the same use as Veil.

Portal – The amount of times I’ve seen keeps taken because a hidden mesmer ported in a zerg to the lord room is crazy. Also, good luck golem rushing anything without a portal chain.

Null field – Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies. which creates a ethereal feild that can be blasted for Chaos Armor Give yourself random boons and your foe random conditions whenever you are struck. nuff said…

Time Warp – 10 seconds of aoe quickness that can make a golem pack melt doors and also lays down an ethereal field.

If all you care about is spamming aoe nuke spells, the Elementalist is right there. That’s literally what they are all about.

Utility bots. We get it. Also, Null Field was nerfed since beta. It has 5 max targets and only removes 1 boon per sec. Not much.

yep and dont forget that chaosarmor has been nerfed to the ground too. tw has been nerfed, portal has been nerfed, massinvis..u kidding right? so yeah we have utilities, but thats it, they are nowhere near as useful as they used to be. sorry but if u have people scouting, u will see that veil coming a mile away and same with the portalbomb. sorry but veil is last season, and now what?
our utility is less and less needed and now what does mesmer have left? spamming aa on gs? having bugged ai die instantly when spawned without dealing dmg, having shatters mainly fail if not ip traited? yeah fun isnt it. and all those utilities are on long cooldown, so what are u doing during these 40-90 seconds?chill in the back while dealing little to no dmg?

medohgeuh.4650:

As if I really care.

Point is, patching an exploit like this has caused no harm to the class whatsoever. The problem is more with clone life expectancy, anyway.

omg its not an exploit!u play 500 hours and think u know it all? ileap worked like this since release. none has ever complained about it or even said omg that was soo op that this mes could swap places right when i killed that clone. btw if u knew anything about mes u would know that ileap fails most of the time because it is bugged. so instead of even trying to fix ileap, the devs decided to fix the only thing that did make ileap sorta okish!!
thats why people are mad!
also think about it.
anet fixes ileap, but necros still pull me through gates and in the middle of a zerg if i use feedback that is supposed to reflect projectiles not revert pulls!!!
or if i put feedback on a mes that blinks at the same time i blink instead of him.
nah those things dont get fixed of course. but making ileap even worse than it already was is completely uncalled for!

and instead of coming here with your attitude, how about trying to understand why people are mad. we are not trying to exploit and it isnt an exploit its been like this in the game since headstart and ive played mes since headstart.
if u would have played mesmer back then, trust me u would be upset too!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Quit trying to seek their approval. All a zerg needs is warm bodies that aren’t really bait. A well played ranger makes a kick kitten roamer, go try that.

well, yes ranger can sort of roam, but what about all the rangers that would like to raid? they can’t cause there is no real role for them. GWEN dominates and only engi and thief can keep up with it but ranger and mes are left behind. pets are terribad in wvw raids! there was a moment when i saw rangers being played a lot in wvw and it was after bm buff.
a war is better with a longbow than the ranger…c’mon!ranger lacks a clear role in groupplay thats why its left out and the pet being useless in such encounters, making things worse.

rangers need a clear role, options to spec for wvw raids, traits that are less focused on the pet and pet improvements. this class has great potential and im sure many suggestions are out there that would put this class in a way better position, but only if it does receive rework.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Mesmer is abysmally bad compared to my necro in open world.

I love my mesmer and stuff, but we have one setup left for PvE (phantasm) and it fails in matters of DPS and utility in open world.

On my necro, I can play DS, non-DS-power build, minion or even condition, and I will still clear everything faster than with a phantasm mesmer.

People should face the truth, the mesmer profession in its current incarnation is just bad.

yes, i have switched to necro aswell. i play power necro in wvw raids and omg hello i got dmg, i go aoe omg and i dont even need to use minions if i dont want to. yay no ai!!! even in pvp i started using my necro.

Fay.2357:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

But what is fun?

Winning is fun. But playing Mesmer provides a disadvantage compared to playing other classes at a similar skill level. That means you’ll win less, which isn’t fun.

You can have fun without winning though. Contributing to your group in a meaningful way can be fun. Being a significant part of a larger whole can be fun. However, can ‘veil in front’ truly be described as significant? I can’t personally call it as such anymore.

It can be fun to hide in a keep and ninjaportal for it, but that’s a rare situation more dictated by enemy incompetence than your personal skill in playing.

Some people find pve fun. I’m not one of those people. Additionally, pve happens to be where some of the worst Mesmer bugs are highlighted and brought front and center, making it go from a merely un-fun experience to a truly and massively aggravating one.

So where is the fun in playing Mesmer? I can’t find it anymore.

exactly!thats the issue. i kepts trying new builds and new stuff after all the nerfs and always tried to have fun with it still. but with other classes receiving major buffs while mes still was trying to find viable builds(especially in wvw), the fun slowly disappeared. in wvw its not about winning 1v1’s for me its fun to be able to deal dmg to mutliple targets while supporting your server. mes used to be awesome on wvw!omg i couldnt wait to log on every day after work id be right online for wvw raids and epic battles
but after glam nerf…and all the balance changes, GWEN became a thing and mes simply cant keep up with it. we cant deal aoe dmg anymore, we can barely survive in the massive cc spams, we barely get loot and it doesnt feel like im contributing anything to the battle apart from veil.

well ive moved on to spvp and tpvp and i used to still find fun, but even there with other classes getting buffs and mes getting nothing, the fun is slowly but surely gone. making a build and choosing utility that could be useful is more and more becoming a pain. on my guard, id be oh this utility o no that one ..oh man why cant i take them all?!?!? on mes its more erm, well nope not useful in spvp, doesnt work properly, is a useless skill, oh well i might go to my usual ones. fun for me is to play a game how i want to with the class i have chosen. so if i wanna go raid, i want viable aoe like build options, if i wanna 1v1 and roam i wanna have different viable builds suiting my playstyle. in spvp there should be way more build diversity aswell.
in spvp i’d say its not because we are up as mes is good in small encounters, but other classes got buffed and we didnt since glamnerf! now in spvp the aoe spam is there too and cc spam and condi spam. mes has no aoe, cc is kinda meh on mes and condi has been nerfed to the ground… yes, thief doesent have much aoe either, but then again thief has a lot of fun little tools that can hit hard.

i think its time to rework this class as certain nerfs left the class hanging in the air. u cant just take away all core mechanics and only leave us with bugged ai pets and then stating this was a ranged 1v1 class… thats not even a class.we need non ai aoe, we need all our buggs fixed, we need new build options, we need new and reworked traits, we need unnerfs, we need a clear role (which used to be punishing,), we need skills reworked, we need skills replaced and we need build diversity. then it could be fun again.

just wait for camelot unchained. thats an rvrvr only game, but isnt even in beta yet

Anton.1769:

Jurica.1742:

Every class has a role and if you don’t like this one, then choose a different class.

99% of players don’t want be a utility bot so then reroll to another classes. And I never heard about people rerolled to be a mesmer.

About those top mesmers:
Sometimes I meet one of them, but it is SoloQ and there he …suks. His high skill mesmer can do nothing vs meta semi afking bunker builds. So even at sPvP mesmer viable only at high tier tpvp. And again, it’s great not because of super concept of this class but because 1 utility (portal) and 1 trait (reaping boons).

agree with u.people still think our utility is that strong…well its not. and utilitybot is not fun at all. u deal no dmg, u get no loot, u are under constant pressure to put veils down which means u need to run upfront with the commander which is a deathzone and then all the utilities are on extreem cooldowns. so what u wanna do 90% of the fight?spam aa gs?
mesmer got broken when anet nerfed their core mechanics 1by one and left us with nothing but bugged ai pets.

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

yep and the core mechanic that kinda was supposed to work like hexes used to in gw1 , got nerfed by 50% and is now inflicetd better with other classes than the mesmer. but hey at least moa got fixed..erm or whatever they did to it….clapclapclap

Ross Biddle.2367:

selan.8354:

its been reported last december when they introduced the so called iwarden improvemnt which broke this phantasm that used to be the most reliable phantasm….

They then fixed it in a patch.

Only they didnt…..

They continue to “improve” it to this day.

oh yeah thats right 3 months later they proudly announced they fixed it…well they then managed to somehow break it even more……the improvement is remarkable! itstead of not attacking at all it only fails to attack 70-80% of the time now and reflects like 1 projectile if u are lucky…but then again it does spawn a looot of the time and waits like 4 secondds and then randomly chases after someone without attacking.

im looking forward to the next fix, (for example blink fix)maybe blinking on bridges will teleport us under the map in future or insta 1 shots us…

Wethospu.6437:

Problem with food.

Nerf warrior.

I think you nailed it.

without food wars condi cleanse is already great with food they are barely affected by anything. and yes lemongrass needs to be looked at ….
and no im not saying that because of that a war shoul get nerfed. war should get nerfed cause atm they have too much of everything. they should have to choose and not get everything without big effort.

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Khalic.3561:

It seems reasonable for rush to receive the same treatment as RTL.

nope. not reasonable at all.
not even close.

Rush
- runs 1200 forward physically
- runs to target within 1200 range
- slowed by crippled, chilled
- stopped by immobilize and various control effects

Ride the Lightning
- 2 seconds of ride the lightning transform effect
- move 600 units per second
- effect only ends if knocked down / burst down or reached target early

rush can be very easily countered while ride the lightning is not.

control effect on warrior….erm stability stability and combined stability with stability for free for warrior, condi chilled…lolololololol erm warrior lemongrass, warrior is barely affected by condis….

rush does hardly ever get countered ever. cause warrior will pop stab anyways so control effects useless.

warriors always outrun everyone in wvw, by far!

its been reported last december when they introduced the so called iwarden improvemnt which broke this phantasm that used to be the most reliable phantasm….

i think the big problem is indeed that it does depend on how u playthe game. if u like roaming and 1v1, yes there are multiple build options for u and mes can be very frustrating to fight which leads to lots of people thinking mes is powerful.
but there is many other game modes like tpvp and wvwraiding and there all those nerfs and bugs kick in at a way different level. that bugged iwarden that could maybe have reflected that killshot or the ileap that could have downed that zerker thief. all the ai that dies instantly in aoe and us not being able to contribute anything else than veil,portal tw to a zerg….
we all experience this on different levels. also depending on what groups u run with. if u have a massive zerg u run with, u might never notice all these issues that much, but if u zergbust every single move is important. the bugs make it more rng and often lead to death.
i ran with a zergbusting guild and trust me all i was able to do on mes was veil and then try to stay alive while others get loot. well yes u might think u are important, but not really as the enemy has adjusted to that kind of gameplay and is infact expecting that veiled attack.
switching to necro actually made me have fun again as i could deal dmg, less bugs and actually feel like i do something.

so yeah the people that like ganking and 1v1 stuff will most likely not agree with me saying that mes is in a terrible terrible state, but once they start nerfing our 1v1 stuff u will see how it feels when with every path 1 by 1 something gets taken away that made u strong.

for us it was glamour,chaos armor, blurred frenzy, confusion, blinding befuddlement, underwater weapon aa that started the wvw mes viability falling apart. all the bugs made this even worse and trust me we all waited since glamour nerf for some aoe dmg coming back to mes or at least something that would help the competitive wvw raid mesmer. it hasnt, instead there were more nerfs and bugs…so yeah i understand everyone who rerolled.

Mystiq Angelic.8193:

Frenk.5917:

Domzz.1260:

I’m lookin for the class which is more versatile and needed throughout all aspects of the game.

In terms of niches, I’d like to excel in:
tPvP / sPvP

-snip-

Before listening to all the “Ele > Mesmer” crowd (with which I agree, btw) you should really consider the fact that SPVP balance will probably change. If you asked the same question some months ago, for example, Mesmer would have been the answer. Now it is Elementalist, but the point is that things changes.

Things changed all the time, I agree, but they were mostly for the worst for the Mesmer. It’s nothing but a downhill for the Mesmer class since the release of GW2 dated back in Aug, 25th, 2012. One would be very naive to believe that Mesmer will see any meaningful changes for the better. Players have been anxiously waited and waited and waited and waited and waited again from the last TWO years and look at the current state of the Mes today July, 14, 2014. I read all EIGHT profession forum everyday, no other class forum is as messed up as Mesmer now.

Roll the Ele, if you want to restrict the choice down to just these two. Otherwise, my asnwer would be different. Just stay the hell away from Mesmer to avoid yourself a kittenload of frustration.

yep, and on top of that most of our strongest supporters and helpers have quit the class, cause of lack of attention and countless nerfs that seemnever ending. most of us have shelved their mesmers while rerolling another class. i mean who wnats to be a veilbot ever? or deal with all the bugs? and then before ebven 1 single bug gets fixed we get a so called fix to ileap that is actually a nerf..so yeah mesmers are fed up and people are leaving this class in mass!
our forum used to be awesome cause all of us would brainstom and work together on builds and tips and ideas and suggestions…well thats past now

yeah cause u probably do 1v1. we all know mes is good in 1v1. we are talking about wvw and tpvp though and other game modes where mes keeps lacking. trust me in a 1v1, yes i can take on war and even thieves arent that hard if u know how to fight them. iw u would read though u would notice why mesmers are unhappy. try to be useful in wvw raids without being a veilbot.

i go full pvt with zerker trinkets and zerk weapons. works pretty good with my build but id say it really depends on wht kind of build u have and what u wanna do in wvw. u can easily roam full zerk in wvw.

ele. mes is a dying class unless u wanna push 1 button every now and then when someone needs a veil,portal or timewarp, u got nothing to contribute in a zerg at all. plus im sure anet will find something else they can nerf.

although roaming can still sorta be fun on mes, in every other aspect of the game mes is lacking as we dont have enough aoe …or hardly any aoe. mes is a bugged overnerfed pet class atm with no role that cant be easily done by any other class, but it used to be fun.
in wvw(which is the game mode i mainly play, mes lack out of combat speed, cc option, los issues are unbarable, clones die the moment they spawn, our maind dmg dealers(phantasms) are either bugged or die in seconds and can also be affected by cc(=byebye aoe =byebye dmg), apart from our broken ai, most of our weapons are 1v1 single target and require a target(very bad vs thieves), u wont get loot or very little where all of GWEN has to get merchant in order to free space u will not even be half full) and if u dont play pu u melt in seconds.
so maybe in 4 years mes is back to glory so dont delete your mesmers yet…2018 esport complete domination by mesmers ……or maybe not…. -_-

erm actually this has kinda happened to the mes already. confusion and glamour war our dor and signature. anet nerfed it sooo hard it was almost impossible to viable stack. then they bring out perplexity runes that allows any other class but mes to stack 25 stack of confusion that last longer. this was suuuch a slap in our face and the nerfs are never ending. at least fix the bugs first before nerfing more!!!!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Veruah.5302:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Maybe you guys are the ones who don’t understand the playstyle and are getting mad because Anet isn’t conforming it to your incorrect notions. PvP is the one format Anet actually balances around, I think they generally know what they’re doing better than a bunch of randoms with questionable experience in the class.

You guys sound like the Smash players who complain about Sakurai “ruining” Smash by catering to casuals and making it less hardcore when it was never a hardcore game to begin with. Just because something happened to turn out the way you liked one time doesn’t mean it was intended or in conformity with the overall vision.

I’m curious, what is Anet’s “overall vision” then for the mesmer? Unless you are actually an Anet employee posting off an Anet forum account it seems you would be right alongside of us in this “bunch of randoms.”

Also, this is a product that a business sells to customers. If a significant amount of Toyota owners were like “Hey, Toyota, we really, really, don’t like how the GPS in the new Corolla is laid out. It negatively impacts our driving experience and I am less likely to buy another Toyota automobile in the future because of this” and Toyota considered them just “a bunch of randoms” somebody would get fired. I promise you that.

I’m not the one complaining about it, I’m perfectly happy with the buffs mesmer has been getting in recent patches. You guys are the ones complaining that Anet doesn’t know what they themselves want with the mesmer, in their own game.

And hey, if you don’t like it, quit the game and stop supporting it with gem store purchases or whatever. Maybe a programmer will get fired when all the mesmer players are clearly personally and deeply offended by this massive gamebreaking nerf will follow you and someone will get fired and you can be all like “see that iLeap nerf ruined the entire game for everyone”.

Or more likely no one will care because honestly no one should care.

i think u havent played the game since headstart. i have and i played mesmer and i absolutely loved this class. i was powerful in wvw and spvp , pve was not great to level, but i loved this class. in wvw mesmers were feared cause u actually had to think before rushing in. but then the glamour nerf kicked in and all the other nerf kicked in patch after patch, taking away everything the wvw mes was. we all were still hopeful, but then bug after bug after bug came along never got fixed. stuff was broken and sooooooo many nerfs that turned mes into veilbots in wvw. spvp mes can still somewhat be ok in hotjoin, but with this new nerf(not fix) i think our patience is over.
it was the last straw for many of us.
i have switched to necro and omg finallllyy i can deal dmg in wvw and omg i can have fun, i can even run faster and omg im viable and omg lootbags…
mes is dying cause anet fails to see that we dont need ai(broken most of the time anyways) we need aoe and a clear role. ranged 1v1 class?what on earth is that supposed to be?

yep i feel u. i was soo frustrated with veilbotting, i made a necro and omg i can wvw and actually having fun.

well thats why confusion made sense that it dealt so much dmg. all the enemy had to do was slowing down and not hack/slash hammer stun through everything. if i got hit by confusion during glam times(and i had bad condi cleanse on my glam mes) id simply stop attacking randomly, id kite for the short duration confusion lasted.

confusion was punishing but anet took that away and turned us into a pet class with this. in gw1 mes was ultimate punishing class, id like to see some of that in gw2 mes but atm its just bugged illusions everywhere and broken skills and traits.

BurrTheKing.8571:

selan.8354:

Harper.4173:

Sadly there’s a dichotomy when it comes to passive play in this game : anything that’s not warrior passive play is alright.
Warrior passive sustain, or traits, or anything is bad.

But mesmers having phantasms doing all the work or engis spamming turrets is considered ok.

Sad but true.

im a mes.
trust me if i could,id spec into not using ai at all, i would do that in a heartbeat.ive always tried to spec for less ai, but unfortunately is a bad class design. i wish mes could like necro have the choice of using minions/phantasms and was not so dependant on it. ai should be reduced i agree and honestly a light armor class like mes should not be a petspam clss anyways. too many bugs with it and absolutely horrendoous in wvw raids.

I played Mes a good amount in GW1 and boy does the class design in GW2 annoy me. It was a class about have Hexes to put the hurt on one type of playstyle or using interrupts to make casters cry.

In GW2 pretty much every build is reliant on AI and it makes it so much less interesting. They could have made the Phantasms appear for 1 attack and then disappear and give them a shorted CD. The whole clone system in general could have been about timing your skills so that they get hit instead of you but don’t linger around. Of course, this would mean that the whole class mechanic would have had to be different but I just feel that there’s a way to make illusion/disruption based class that is supposed to be “confusing” to fight without being simply annoying. Not being reliant on clones would also mean that they could have more worth in PvP because their main mechanic isn’t constantly getting destroyed by AoE.

so much agree with u. gw1 mes was amazing in teamsupport and great at aoe and actually a pain to face for sure. they were the ultimate punishing class. we had this a little bit going in gw2 during glamour time, but anet decided to nerf this core mechanic to the ground which left us with ai only builds…i just wish we could have the role of punishing class back again. give us aoe back, make us viabale in wvw again and stop with the pet ai stuff. we are not rangers nor are we ganking thieves, we are a light armor class that used to be amazing in gw1 and seems more like a shadow of what we were supposed to be.
id say, enough with the ai! get rid of it!

not really. ihave been asking myself too why it is not in a different traitline.lots of our traits seem to be kinda weird arranged preventing many builds form actually happening. i dont think inspiration is the right trait line for phantasmal strength and ross…i feel u. i feel devs play spvp vs good mesmers too often and balance around their 1v1 experiances instead of seeing the bigger picture.
thats why they never understood why the glam nerf pretty much destroyed the wvw mes and every single patch since felt like another slap in the face. maybe rearranging and reworking traits and traitlines could fix our broken class with uncountable bugs…

yeah the dmg coming form sharper image is definitely worth going for rabid.during glamtimes even if we already had dire, we would have used rabid because of precision.

@blitzkrieg:
the mesmer forum actually used to be the one with the least amount of complainers. we had the mesmer podcast, we had tons of new build ideas almost every day, we would brainstorm,give helpful tips for new players, even helped people out that didnt know how to fight mesmers. so blitzkrieg instead of coming here out of nowhere attacking everyone that has a different opinion than yours and saying we are all a bunch of whiners?
sorry but many that have been very helpful and also have tried to stay positive,have just given up over the last few patches. since glamour nerf i have been waiting for something to fill that massive gap it left behind. since then even more nerfs came along that 1bt1 took a wvw raid mesmers viablity away. gw2 is neither only about gvg nor is it spvp only. there is other gamemodes that have suffered greatly for mesmers. its not fun to be a veilbot and no gvgs dont happen 24/7 either and even there mesmer can be replaced easily.
in spvp u get to kill a few hotjoin guys but people that know how to fight mesmers are not being fooled by pu or any clone..
all we want right now is for our bugs to be adressed instead of bugfixes that are actually nerfs and never even have been mentioned. and also what we want is a viable wvw build that is not ai 1v1 heavy.

Harper.4173:

Sadly there’s a dichotomy when it comes to passive play in this game : anything that’s not warrior passive play is alright.
Warrior passive sustain, or traits, or anything is bad.

But mesmers having phantasms doing all the work or engis spamming turrets is considered ok.

Sad but true.

im a mes.
trust me if i could,id spec into not using ai at all, i would do that in a heartbeat.ive always tried to spec for less ai, but unfortunately is a bad class design. i wish mes could like necro have the choice of using minions/phantasms and was not so dependant on it. ai should be reduced i agree and honestly a light armor class like mes should not be a petspam clss anyways. too many bugs with it and absolutely horrendoous in wvw raids.

yeah the unfixed bugs are a pain. u never know when u press a button, if it actually will work or not. most of the bug are even stronger if u play wvw raids. so after listing and testing every single bug the mes has, and making a thread about it so devs can easily find every bug there is, we dont get a single one fixed(apart from the one pyro got banned for), but we get a so called “bugfix” that has been uncalled for and actually is a nerf.
so yeah people are fed up.
since glamour was nerfed, many of us stayed positive and constructive, trying to creat some form of viable wvw build. all the builds that came out were still not really specific wvw raid builds, but we did try to adjust. wvw and gvg’s are still 2 complete different things btw blitzkrieg. and even there mes is not a must, but an ok addition.
people have been asking for buffs in wvwv raids for months. i warden was broken months ago, certain bugs have been there since release, there is a ton of useless traits and skills that we have also suggested to rework or replace.
we also tried to find ways to deal more aoe dmg in wvw, and every single patch feels like a slap in the face. every single sotg i look at the devs and they seem not knowing how mes relly works, cause all they played it with so fr was either roaming 1v1(1v1 gain is not a gamemode and should never be balanced around) or spvp.
so many strong and helpful members of the mesmer community have given up on the class. so no, we are not whining , we are frustrated and fed up!

devs arent even aware of how massive the glamour nerf for wvw mes really was. we went from being the class that enemies feared and had to actually think before rushing them, to…oh look its a few mes just cc them to death realquick as their veil,tw,portal is not gonna hurt us anyways.
so instead of always attacking members blitzkrieg, u might wanna check where people are coming from.

LumAnth.5124:

But feedback is one of the only ways I can tag for loot ;(

That is, when I go to wvw. I haven’t been there in 2 months now

erm so wht exactly are u refelcting there to tag? warriors? guardoans, necro wells or metoershowers?….feedback is not viable anymore cause of the lack of projectiles and also the problems with necros pulling u in the middle of them.

Sobiech.9613:

Not giving up on this class. Anet shouldn’t either but signs point to a sad place.

Please don’t force folks to go GWEN.

too late. i really really really loved my mesmer. before all the massive nerfs and bugs i couldnt wit to log onto my mesmer. it was fun in wvw, pve and spvp. i felt viable in every game mode. now with all these bugs and sooo many nerf i feel useless in wvw which is my favorite gme mode. no aoe nothing work the way its supposed to and instead of fixing just 1 single bug just 1…they nerf ileap…..speechless……
so yeah i have given up on this class and only play necro now, at least i get lootbags and kills and not just veilveilveilbot boredom. i think anet only sees the 1v1 mes and balances according to that, thats why they done even notice all the bug that mainly wvw players experience.
i miss my mes though but with these bugs its simply unplayable and i barely log in nowadays…just dailies…and log out.

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

Ross Biddle.2367:

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

lol no we dont we use necros thief squad and maybe 1 mes for veil at the start in a lot of guild that are good in gvg. and im in tier 2 so yeah. thief>mes. maybe in 20v20 u can afford 2 mes but in 15v15 u use maaaaybe 1 mes and 2 thieves a couple of eles and the rest is heavy train. but honestly engi is taking over the ganking in gvg’s lately way more with the thieves.

What guild would ever use engi in a gank group? What the kitten lol. I watch [Agg] play consistently. They run 3 mesmers at times but usually 2 in their gank with 2 thieves. I watch [NS] gvg consistently, they the same. I watch [EP] gvg consistently they the same. [Ark] is the same. Similarities between these? All top tier GvG guilds. [Agg] is probably the best GvG guild in the game currently and arguably with [NS] as they’re sort of neck and neck. They run multiple mesmers in their gank. Please don’t try to spill mis-information. Just because some random kittenty guild is running 1 mes and decided to run engi doesn’t automatically make it viable or good. Also, necros belong with the train because wells are op to counter train, and the warriors peel while guardians blob – what necro would run with the gank, and what guild would put an engi in their gank? Wow

Yeah Selan. Realize your opinions are not blitzkrieg’s, and therefor any views you hold are the wrong ones. All guilds blitzkrieg rates are the very best and any you’re in are just some random kitten guilds. Please realize the master is in the room and bow down.

Blitzkrieg’s growing arrogance aside. My guild runs a mesmer or two in our pick team. It’s pretty standard practice to use a veil before initial engagement. Shatter’s good burst but personally I don’t think it’s the best option. The best pick team is about composition and you can do better than a standard shatter mes imo.

But who cares. None of this changes the fact that iLeap needs revision. That the clone needing to be alive for swap is a bad choice. That the mechanic conflicts with other mesmer features. Tooltips are nothing. Good design choices and a sound view of the meta are what matters.

hahah very very true ross. i couldnt have said it better.
.haha yeah my guild sure has fun farming all those u just mentioned blitzkrieg. btw we dont run a mesmer.

but back on the topic. i leap is terrible in its current form.its very very hard to actully swap places now with your clone.clones just die to quickly so ileap needs heavy rework.

You farm [Agg] and [NS]? Lol, please… They’re the 2 best GVG guilds in the entire game and since [Agg] is quitting, [NS] now is pretty much the best GVG guild. Btw, what guild are you on selan?

Guilds I’ve been on and have played mesmer/guardian for: [Agg] , [HOPE] , [VK] , [RET]

My main is ranger, but it’s not viable as much as mesmer/guardian in wvw so I run mesmer mostly nowadays. All shatter.

And yes Ross, the argument on iLeap needing a rework is what needs to be discussed, that and why 35 negative mesmer bugs still sit in the forum.

Regarding GVG compositions, what needs to be discussed is why 80% of the raid force consists of warriors and guardians moreso than why is there only 2 mesmers. Some classes just don’t fit the style of GVG formats. Some perfectly fit the style of GVG’s (warriors/staff ele/guardians). Necros only work because of this fact, so their existence in GVG is predicated on the fact that warriors/guardians are OP in GVG formats. Mesmers barely fit gvg’s, while engis and rangers don’t fit the style at all – they’re build for smaller group roaming (mesmer is good in this format too). GVGing is just one format in a game mode that caters to a small group of classes. It seems like from the discussion you’ve been having is, you want the same presence as warriors/guardians , to be able to tank like a heavy class, blast finishers like a heavy class , stability uptime like guardians/warriors but you’re not a heavy class, you’re a light class with specific unique roles to what you can do, Fay calls it veilbotting but I’ve seen 100’s of GVG’s and have been in enough to know that mesmers do much more than just veilbot. Yes, veil is an important skill much like a guardians hammer blast finisher is an important skill, much like a necro well is a unique skill, much like a warrior’s immobilization to setup burst is a unique skill but those skills don’t make the up the only reason why they exist in GVG’s…

well u are from FA then..so was i just recently transferred off. and yes being part of AVTR, yes mesmer was all i ran. now i am meow guild, but taking a break from the game a little, just logging in atm for dailies and maybe a few fights. wvw is not only about gvg. wvw is wvw and ther mes in veilbot.thats why i leveled a necro so i could at least have some fun.

Ross Biddle.2367:

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

lol no we dont we use necros thief squad and maybe 1 mes for veil at the start in a lot of guild that are good in gvg. and im in tier 2 so yeah. thief>mes. maybe in 20v20 u can afford 2 mes but in 15v15 u use maaaaybe 1 mes and 2 thieves a couple of eles and the rest is heavy train. but honestly engi is taking over the ganking in gvg’s lately way more with the thieves.

What guild would ever use engi in a gank group? What the kitten lol. I watch [Agg] play consistently. They run 3 mesmers at times but usually 2 in their gank with 2 thieves. I watch [NS] gvg consistently, they the same. I watch [EP] gvg consistently they the same. [Ark] is the same. Similarities between these? All top tier GvG guilds. [Agg] is probably the best GvG guild in the game currently and arguably with [NS] as they’re sort of neck and neck. They run multiple mesmers in their gank. Please don’t try to spill mis-information. Just because some random kittenty guild is running 1 mes and decided to run engi doesn’t automatically make it viable or good. Also, necros belong with the train because wells are op to counter train, and the warriors peel while guardians blob – what necro would run with the gank, and what guild would put an engi in their gank? Wow

Yeah Selan. Realize your opinions are not blitzkrieg’s, and therefor any views you hold are the wrong ones. All guilds blitzkrieg rates are the very best and any you’re in are just some random kitten guilds. Please realize the master is in the room and bow down.

Blitzkrieg’s growing arrogance aside. My guild runs a mesmer or two in our pick team. It’s pretty standard practice to use a veil before initial engagement. Shatter’s good burst but personally I don’t think it’s the best option. The best pick team is about composition and you can do better than a standard shatter mes imo.

But who cares. None of this changes the fact that iLeap needs revision. That the clone needing to be alive for swap is a bad choice. That the mechanic conflicts with other mesmer features. Tooltips are nothing. Good design choices and a sound view of the meta are what matters.

hahah very very true ross. i couldnt have said it better.
.haha yeah my guild sure has fun farming all those u just mentioned blitzkrieg. btw we dont run a mesmer.

but back on the topic. i leap is terrible in its current form.its very very hard to actully swap places now with your clone.clones just die to quickly so ileap needs heavy rework.

yeah already leveled a necro to 80. at least i can be viable in wvw and not be a veilbot with tons of ai bugs.