I am really curious about a lot of this as well. Spoj I may have to chat with you in game or something about your necro stuff.
You can ask me in game anytime, i usually respond unless im really busy or afk. The meta build is getting changed next patch though. Ive written up a full guide which I will be posting when the patch goes live. Waiting to make sure nothing else changes.
When the patch goes live my updated build will be using DS a bit more to give maximum dps. You will still be flashing DS most of the time but it has a bit more emphasis on DS traits.
Weakening shroud is now getting a buff for pve btw. No icd, 1 bleed stack and 2 second base weakness. Im assuming direct damage will remain so its going to give necro aoe dmg + 2 second weakness every 7 seconds. This is kind of enough for fractals as taking much longer than a few seconds to kill a group is getting risky and the advantage is you can get another 5 mobs weakened only 7 seconds later.
I use to be incredibly biased towards necro until I started playing other classes a lot more. Then i realised you can have a lot more fun by playing a variety of classes. You also tend to realise the shortcomings of each class and end up losing your bias if you enjoy the other classes enough. Id argue that those of you who are disgreeing with us prefer playing engi too much to lose your bias. Either that or you havent given enough other classes a good chance and learnt what they can do.
My warrior was originally male. I got fed up with not being able to find armour that looked good on him. So i gave him a sex change. I now have 5 human females, 1 female asura, 1 female norn, 1 male sylvari and 1 male charr. Id rather have characters i find attractive. My asura and sylvari are rarely played these days because I just dont like their look enough. Charr and norn are low lvl so they get rarely played anyway.
It varies but ranger, engi and necro are pretty much never picked.
Why? Spotter is pretty huge (also frost spirit). And Engi goes for helping to achive 25 stacks of vulnerability on bosses.
Not many people have them and engi is slow and has poor personal dps. Cant really comment on ranger, id imagine its because those of us who do have one prefer to play other classes and its awkward to play in some dungeons.
A Zerker has a higher burst while the Condi has a higher sustain. Sustain and AOE are what I tend to value most considering how frequently I run fractals and dungeon.
Zerker necro doesnt have burst. It has sustained high single target dps and burst aoe. The burst aoe is less dps on a single target than the regular dagger rotation. Also a good player wont have any downtime on zerk necro dps in full melee.
Condi does have better sustained aoe and thats a reason to consider it for certain fractals. Everywhere else zerker is better.
It has the advantage of good sustained aoe. Single target dps falls off quite a lot though. The big benefit is in really high fractals, dredge with perma prot take a lot longer to kill with direct damage but condi’s ignore prot so having 1 party member dedicated to rampager/condi is pretty good there. Also dark fields op.
Yeah necro isnt really worth taking for dungeons. However they can be pretty good for fractals. And if your doing high fractals being able to switch between zerk and rampager/condi on the fly is something you should make sure you are able to do. Or just stick to rampager in fractals i guess. :P
My build will be getting some pretty big changes next patch, so I may actually post a full writeup this weekend.
Yeah but zerker is better. If your more comfortable with condi then yes its possible that it achieves better dps for you, but thats a player skill/playstyle issue. Ignoring skill and playstyle beserker is far better for dps. However if you need sustained aoe (dredge and ascalon fractal) rampager or condi is argueably better. This tends to only really be the case for fractals 60+ though.
Thanks for the rethink with weakening shroud. This keeps it viable for pve and prevents it from being op.
I still think siphoned power needs to be scrapped and completely reworked. It just doesnt have a use and its not worthy of the tier. My suggestions would be to be either some 5-10% damage boost under a certain conditon, example; 10% damage when foe is weakened or necro is above 90% hp. Or to simply change it to might on crit or 66% chance for might on crit. Its not like it would be op considering how poor necro self buffing is at the moment, they could do with a good self buff trait which isnt dependant on DS.
We will talk today about changing duration on weakening shroud instead of cooldown .
Thanks,
Jon
Will you consider splitting it in pve? At the moment good uptime of aoe weakness is one of the only redeeming qualitys a necro has. Not to mention it already lasts to little time on bosses with unshakeable.
What about spite minors? They need a rework aswell. Siphoned power mainly.
I really don’t mind that skill in theory. I think the threshold should be 33%, and I think the might should last longer, which would make it more reliable.
Really? For a 25 point minor? Please take a look at every other 25 point minor in the game. Even with 33% threshold and longer duration its not even worthy of an adept minor.
It needs a major rework to be something that actually boosts power necros aggression. Might on crit would be better. Or just a flat modifier like 5/10% damage to foes with weakness on them.
For a pure phantasm build where you dont need much reflects the build will be
10/20/0/25/15. For reflects im not sure but it will probably remain the same as it is now: 10/30/0/20/10.
The difference is im open minded when it comes to these suggestions. When people have been adamant that they were right and I was wrong, I would go test it out for myself and check. Most of the time it turns out I was mostly right because i base my claims on experience and calculations… Whenever I have been wrong i have acknowledged it after proof has been provided or I tested it out myself. And the thing is we as experienced dungeon runners are pretty keen when it comes to finding whats best.
Well thats not surprising either based on how many people are report happy over the littlest things. You would laugh at some of the things I, dub and a few others have been infracted for. I was infracted for suggesting to someone “find a guild, that way it will be easier to find a group for the content you want to experience”.
Im being deadly serious. Ive been accused of insulting people for the stupidest things. Ive even re-read my posts and facepalmed at how easily people are offended by something that isnt even directed at them or is just a simple bit of advice worded slightly poorly.
Actually I think you will find most people are paranoid and take every critism as a personal attack when they really shouldnt. I will admit things do escalate quite easily but the majority of posts from those of us from the dungeon forums are simply factual critisms that get misunderstood because people dont like being wrong.
the 50% crit chance from DS XII , is it a flat 50% or is it 50% of your current crit chance?
Its +50% but ive said this countless times before. DS isnt good for dps even with capped 99% crit chance. If you want to min max necro dps you want to max dagger dps. So going 25 in curses is a must. Having said that, with the buff to strength of undeath coming next patch I may be altering the build to 20/25/0/0/25. There are a few variants I need to check before I update the build though.
Thats actually not a bad suggestion. It wouldnt force groups to kill and the incentive is good enough for casual players to kill, but not so good that they would abuse it and farm the start of dungeons.
Because the only reason you could possibly still be argueing is because you think im wrong? Which means you arent happy with how im ranking engi? Either that or you’re just argueing for the sake of keeping the thread going.
I didnt say you shouldnt play engi seriously. I wouldnt even say that about necro. What I meant is if I was to run some dungeons and we felt like doing them smoothly and efficiently, necro and engi would be last choices because they are not as useful as other classes (going back to the original point of the thread). In reality necro is the only class that id never take in that situation, im perfectly fine with taking an engi in a fast run but it would be one of my least preferable choices.
Doing a 3-4 hour dungeon tour versus an 8 hour dungeon tour seems like a pretty good incentive to me.
There’s a very big difference between wanting to complete something in a reasonable time frame versus focusing around “record kills.”
You can complete most quick dungeon paths (i.e., CoF p1/2, SE p1, HotW p1, etc.) in a reasonable time frame with any group composition so long as players are competent with the class they are playing. My guild runs groups like this every single day. We don’t discriminate over what class you take. Because if it takes you longer than 8 minutes to finish CoF p1, the problem isn’t what class they’re playing but what gear they’re wearing.
We never said you cant take an engi for a fast run. The point is there are better choices. I dont understand why you are denying that.
Ps. You’ve gone back to proving me right about being biased towards your class.
You’re seeing insults where there are none. The fun factor is irrelevant in class usefulness anyway so I dont see why you even brought it up.
Seeing as any build of any class can complete the content fine, the only way to accurately compare class balance in pve is when optimized. Which is why im mentioning speed clears.
Closed minded? Because I enjoy fun with my friends a guildies, your kidding right? You continually used the terms “organized”, " series", “speed run”, and “record attempts”, and you want to be insulting and call me close minded for mentioning fun over all the terms you used. that was not necessary in the least.
Closed minded in that you assumed I dont do the same (enjoy fun with my friends and guildies) but with optimized builds. I dont see why I cant have fun and do all the things i mentioned.
So closed minded. I have many friends who I run dungeons with. We all play for fun but we optimize our builds and take classes that are useful. You seem to think running optimized groups sucks the fun out of things…. We dont stack certain classes unless we are going for something different but fun. I mentioned record attempts but I was mainly referring to semi serious regular runs. Most of the time you wouldnt take an engi or necro. Not all the time, but most of the time. If i ever take my necro into arah I usually make a joke of “im going to leech”. Because its true, necro is a leech class.
Anyway were going off topic. Engi can be very good but it falls short in a lot of areas so its somewhat subpar for dungeon usefulness.
I meant organised semi serious speed clear groups. If you took one of those classes on that type of run it would be slower. And you definately wouldnt take either of them on a record attempt.
You missed the point a few posts back… Yes, it is about the group providing those things. But some classes contribute to those better than others. Some provide only 1 or 2 but really well. Some provide most of them really well. Some provide a few of them but very badly (necro). Some provide a bit of all of them but not very well (engi), which makes them a good class especially for casual runs/pugs. It doesnt make them a higher rank in terms of usefulness though, but I admit that is subjective on how you view it. Im ranking them as whats good in organised groups in semi serious runs. You wouldnt take an engi or necro in those types of runs so they are bottom tier.
