Well, until HoT launches:
If heads, it’s a power meta.
If tails, it’s a condi meta.But then again…maybe one of the new armor stat combos will give us will be OP and some power/condi hybrid will be meta.
Not 100% sure so take this with a grain of salt but i think i seen a power condi precision ferocity gear set coming with pof which would make holosmith an absolute beast with a hybrid build for pve
I see a lot of people saying Holosmith damage needs to be reduced, but I’m not so sure that’s true. It’s a high risk / high reward specialization, and it doesn’t offer all that much other than high damage. In other words if you reduce damage on Holosmith, what are you left with?
needs a bit of a nerf on the auto and a look at the cooldowns thats about it
You don’t get Heat Therapy from the dodge trait tho, do you?
You do, tested it out in spvp a bit, its nearly a 1k heal per dodge roll with no healing power
i wanted to see what would happen if you teamed up a scrapper and a holosmith and let the holosmith give the scrapper perma super speed for regen ticks so the scrapper could tank for the holosmith and keep him upright
I found by the time you did whatever you activated forge to do, it’s been 6 seconds and your kits are off cooldown. I haven’t had an issue with being locked out – maybe for 1 second tops.
Same here. I’m actually loving how well this new spec blends in with kits.
On the opposite side of the spectrum ive been enjoying no kit builds immensely
Was I right? or was I right?
Nope, once we get the xpac holosmith will most likely be the highest dps in pve using a hybrid build, so thats 1 down, for wvw it dosent really matter since scrapper has only one viable build and the rest are sub par and you arnt running the viable build and seem to be kicking kitten sub par holosmith builds should be right and for spvp every class has 1 meta build a bunch of viable builds and then a crap ton of but i like it builds just depends on whos playing and who there playing agienst.
Im not sure what your trying to be right about anymore tbh, the play style is new.and refreshing and based on how things look we are going to have viable buildss across the board and theres not much anet can do with the holosmith outside of altering numbers if they want to balance the holosmith so its either we are top tier dps and viable or not top tier dps and not viable.
Is it just the fact you dont like the idea of being forced to use photon forge to make a viable build for holosmith after all these years of being forced to take a kit, because i wouldnt argue with you on that.
I was right about the fact that the traits don’t matter. It doesn’t matter what you pick for the Holosmith traits, it doesn’t affect the build no matter if it’s condi or power.
The skills matter way more than the traits when they should be relatively equal.
What traits did you take then? And for reasons can you state if you were running a power condi bruiser bunker or hybrid build.
Since the utilitys are split for wvw they could increase the duration of photon wall for wvw and keep it the same for spvp in wvw i found that it wasnt long enough to close the gap from a safe distance befor it wore off, i agree with the cd increase on holo leap its really strong because of that 2 sec cd but i found the leap finisher super handy for a variety of tactics while i was doing 1v1 and 2v2s with buddys so id like to see a leap finisher added to the sword 3 skill so i can keep doing that but with obviously a bit more difficult since 6sec lock into photonforge.
Im not sure how i feel about heat on the utilitys, i like the heat system atm but i can really spam and not pop my top easily so with increased cds on photon forges utilitys* would make it alot easier to manage the heat levels with even with heat on the utilites and it would give a way to generate heat for the skills that require heat for improved stats like the autos crit bonus without needing to spam threw photon forge.
I think the iron blood trait should get jumped up to 3% per boon in wvw, in a zerg setup using elixirs for might isnt as such a big deal anymore since there will be boons aplenty as is, this would help it synergize with your idea for hard light arena better as well as synergies with the damage reduction trait in photon forge and with the utility that improves damage reduction which would make use of a currently unused trait and make engineer significantly tanky without it focusing as heavily into stats.
(edited by ukuni.8745)
If the holo leap trait dosent have a max limit for applying the swiftness wouldnt yoh be able to bring 2 engis that could provide perma super speed for an entire guild?
It has a max limit of 3 targets.
Well look we just found something they could change to make engineers betteer for potential gvg squads, on another note tho 20 holosmiths only holosmiths, everyones viper and some trait for might stack start out with a stealth stack might and then 20 prime light beams, what ever dosent die will get knocked down and 20 stacks of burning a second will kill anything without an invuln trait and what ever is left can get zerged down by 20 engis boom problem solved hahahahah, i wanna see this happen atleast once
Also not trying to argue with you personally about engis place in a gvg it would be good for it to have a place there and a seprate thread for it wouldnt be a bad idea mostly just commenting on this thread to point out to dirame that holosmith wont have just one viable build for holosmith like scrapper only having bunker scrapper in spvp unless anet wants us to which based on how the spec is looking so far i very much doubt
(edited by ukuni.8745)
I was cracking a joke at dirames arguments hes used, but in the case of WvW solo roaming holosmith will be strong since we wont need to take as many kits to deal the damage anymore so that opens up some nice options there, small group roaming assuming our damage is still up there we can run with a high burst build with some power support hybrid players and we will be an absolute beast, in pug zergs well this is interesting we really hve no way of getting into a fight without backup to dish out our damage without getting wreaked but ill have to do some testing there to, in a gvg we will have to see we can bring a mobile wall and a spastic amount of aoe damage add in the other new skill that reduces damage we might just make it gvgs as the class with the best tank to damage ratio but once again we are left to the mercy of the final numbers.
First of all, no one is disputing that Holosmith will be a great small-group/solo roaming specialization. The issue is that we already have this with the Scrapper. But more importantly: who cares about how good it is at roaming? Our primary need is something that fills a role desired in WvW raid groups, and Holosmith brings even less than the Scrapper does.
Second of all, you’re really reaching here. Guardian already brings a “mobile wall” in their shield, which is larger, lasts longer, and can be traited to have a shorter cooldown … with a build that already provides AoE might, stability, condi cleanse, and now also resistance. And it’s not like other PoF specs like Firebrand and Scourge, which actually offer quite a bit of team utility, don’t also contribute a significant amount of damage themselves to a raid group.
If the holo leap trait dosent have a max limit for applying the swiftness wouldnt yoh be able to bring 2 engis that could provide perma super speed for an entire guild?
for wvw it dosent really matter
Why the heck does it “not matter” that Holosmith brings nothing to the table? Firebrand and Scourge both just bring more condi garbage to WvW, and Holosmith is just another roaming spec.
As someone that spends 90% of their time in WvW these days, this expansion really doesn’t seem like a good purchase at this point. I’ll be waiting to see what they say following community feedback from this weekend before I make my choice, but the outlook isn’t looking very good.
I was cracking a joke at dirames arguments hes used, but in the case of WvW solo roaming holosmith will be strong since we wont need to take as many kits to deal the damage anymore so that opens up some nice options there, small group roaming assuming our damage is still up there we can run with a high burst build with some power support hybrid players and we will be an absolute beast, in pug zergs well this is interesting we really hve no way of getting into a fight without backup to dish out our damage without getting wreaked but ill have to do some testing there to, in a gvg we will have to see we can bring a mobile wall and a spastic amount of aoe damage add in the other new skill that reduces damage we might just make it gvgs as the class with the best tank to damage ratio but once again we are left to the mercy of the final numbers.
Was I right? or was I right?
Nope, once we get the xpac holosmith will most likely be the highest dps in pve using a hybrid build, so thats 1 down, for wvw it dosent really matter since scrapper has only one viable build and the rest are sub par and you arnt running the viable build and seem to be kicking kitten sub par holosmith builds should be right and for spvp every class has 1 meta build a bunch of viable builds and then a crap ton of but i like it builds just depends on whos playing and who there playing agienst.
Im not sure what your trying to be right about anymore tbh, the play style is new.and refreshing and based on how things look we are going to have viable buildss across the board and theres not much anet can do with the holosmith outside of altering numbers if they want to balance the holosmith so its either we are top tier dps and viable or not top tier dps and not viable.
Is it just the fact you dont like the idea of being forced to use photon forge to make a viable build for holosmith after all these years of being forced to take a kit, because i wouldnt argue with you on that.
Well damage output is absolutely insane in a zerker build, running no kits feels somewhat exceptable for the moment but time will tell, SD zerker holosmith works quite well can get a great deal of quickness up keep the right traits and just spam out those photon forge skills like rapid fire, even not really knowing what im doing didnt manage to accidentally kill my self with the self detonation, our new elite is just absolutely amazing to use with the photon forges #4 skill, didnt get to thoroughly test much yet but i feel like holosmith is really good.
well after testing it out its really no problem even when you do blow your self up
I feel like this mechanic wont last long, they will probably replace it with a debuff that stops us from reactivating photonforge and lock us out of kits for a while if we break the heat threshold which honestly wouldnt be to bad since there are traits could make a playstyle around it
It would be nice if condi builds were also damage over time builds so you could have a decent amount of time befor you died from lack of condi clear…………..
No more double AoE moa.
Double AoE Moa? Who in the world was doing that? No point taking Elixir X for a condition build, and no point in taking Tools for a PvP power build.
I do miss the double procs for condi Engi, but the new trait is better and I think designed more for the Holosmith.
kitten i was using it for double surprise shots in an SD build, hit like a monster.
I think we’ve gotten away from what the topic actually is about; THE TRAITS. The skills could be the best thing in the world, but the traits are a disservice to those skills.
All you need to do is take anyone of the builds you’ve apparently theorycrafted and ask yourself whether those builds would really be significantly different depending on the traits you selected in the Holosmith line. The answer I’m predicting would be; no.
What you will end up wishing is that you could use the Holosmith with a different trait line other than the Holosmith’s own trait line.
We’ve talked about this long enough. The preview weekend is on Friday. I will revisit this topic after that.
Literally dont have to take alchemy to deal with conditions anymore unless you really want to overkill it on condition removal
You can do that right now. Holosmith doesn’t need to be in the game for you to do without Alchemy.
lemme guess you doit by taking scrapper and purge gyro and this build still uses alchemy and inventions.
Scrapper runs literally zero elixirs most of the time. You get very little condi cleanse from Alchemy as a trait line outside of Transmute.
You run Alchemy primarily for HGH to reduce the cooldown on your Elixir Gun skills, and for the obvious defensive advantages of Self-Regulating Defenses and Protection Injection.
Condi cleanse in PvP is almost entirely covered by the Purge Gyro and the Healing Turret. I don’t see why Holosmith would be any different with the Purge Gyro replaced by the Photon Forge (with traits).
Whether we take Alchemy will depend entirely on whether or not we need survivability traits or if the spec depends on the Elixir Gun as much as the Scrapper does. Condi cleanse has very little to do with it.
actually every build outside of running a bunker scrapper requires alchemy and elixir gun to deal with conditions, bunker scrapper might require the boon stacking for its offensive capability’s but other builds that dont try to stack boons for offensive capability use it so they can clear a few condis, unless your like dirame over here trying to use a single 44 second cd full clear to deal with condition based enemys, so yes if your not running a bunker scrapper build your literally going to need to take either alchemy or that one holosmith trait to deal with conditions and id say thats a pritty big deal for a single trait.
and to add, ive played glass cannon scrapper more then anyone else in this thread and you absolutely need alchemy not only for the auto elixir S but for that small amount of passive condi clear to ensure i just dont outright die from a condi burst befor getting a second chance to burst on my target, with the amount of save me skills and traits going around its just way to risky to assume your going to be able to wipe your enemy off the field in one go befor they can retaliate
(edited by ukuni.8745)
I think we’ve gotten away from what the topic actually is about; THE TRAITS. The skills could be the best thing in the world, but the traits are a disservice to those skills.
All you need to do is take anyone of the builds you’ve apparently theorycrafted and ask yourself whether those builds would really be significantly different depending on the traits you selected in the Holosmith line. The answer I’m predicting would be; no.
What you will end up wishing is that you could use the Holosmith with a different trait line other than the Holosmith’s own trait line.
We’ve talked about this long enough. The preview weekend is on Friday. I will revisit this topic after that.
Literally dont have to take alchemy to deal with conditions anymore unless you really want to overkill it on condition removal
You can do that right now. Holosmith doesn’t need to be in the game for you to do without Alchemy.
lemme guess you doit by taking scrapper and purge gyro and this build still uses alchemy and inventions.
Actually I just run tools with Gadgeteer or Kinetic Battery, gaining superspeed from either Rocket Boots or using toolbelts, combine that with 100% swiftness uptime, and with Adaptive Armour, and Rapid Regeneration and you get good passive regen. The toolbelt skill from your Crate Elite gives you a full condi wipe and voila! you can manage condis relatively well. Also Rocket boots allows you to run away and come back which also helps.
so have you beaten many equally skilled players that are using condis with that build befor?
Theres a photonforge skill that can apply a lot of burns short duration but great for reapplication since a short cd i think that one could potentially run a p/s build and rely on that burning skill to apply the burns that off hand pistol would giving us more self defence without sacraficing damage output compared to a core p/p condi build, alternativly you can use p/p and not use flamer for incin ammo bursting or yolo maximum burning and set the world on fire
So what your saying is, even without condi stats, photonforge has enough condi skills that make taking pistol/sword viable?
Might need to end up going celestial stats in that case O_o
it has a skill that shoots 8 times stacks 8 burns and not sure on the duration but id say its pritty short and it also pierces and has 600 range so technically its more reliable then blowtorch burn since you dont have to be in range of your enemy and since it peirces it puts it somewhat on par with blowtorch as far as how many people you can hit it with theres also the factor of speed of application which blowtorch wins and can be a pritty big thing in pvp, it dosent do more damage in the long run then blowtorch since they last such a short duration but since you have 2x as many stacks of burning you have a better chance of getting more damage out of it in pvp since there is alot shorter time frame for people to clear the burn befor the damage is applied.
over all both skills are pritty on par when it comes to the outcome with the problem being how the enemy reacts to the use of either skill except taking an off hand pistol locks you out of taking a shield where as relying on photonforges burn allows you to take shield in the off hand giving you a huge bonus to your defensive capability’s but thats assuming your just trying to maintain roughly the same damage output as a core engi condi build with holosmith.
and yes i can see celestial gear working amazingly well in WvW for small group or solo roaming with holo smith.
(edited by ukuni.8745)
Theres a photonforge skill that can apply a lot of burns short duration but great for reapplication since a short cd i think that one could potentially run a p/s build and rely on that burning skill to apply the burns that off hand pistol would giving us more self defence without sacraficing damage output compared to a core p/p condi build, alternativly you can use p/p and not use flamer for incin ammo bursting or yolo maximum burning and set the world on fire
I think we’ve gotten away from what the topic actually is about; THE TRAITS. The skills could be the best thing in the world, but the traits are a disservice to those skills.
All you need to do is take anyone of the builds you’ve apparently theorycrafted and ask yourself whether those builds would really be significantly different depending on the traits you selected in the Holosmith line. The answer I’m predicting would be; no.
What you will end up wishing is that you could use the Holosmith with a different trait line other than the Holosmith’s own trait line.
We’ve talked about this long enough. The preview weekend is on Friday. I will revisit this topic after that.
Literally dont have to take alchemy to deal with conditions anymore unless you really want to overkill it on condition removal
You can do that right now. Holosmith doesn’t need to be in the game for you to do without Alchemy.
lemme guess you doit by taking scrapper and purge gyro and this build still uses alchemy and inventions.
I think we’ve gotten away from what the topic actually is about; THE TRAITS. The skills could be the best thing in the world, but the traits are a disservice to those skills.
All you need to do is take anyone of the builds you’ve apparently theorycrafted and ask yourself whether those builds would really be significantly different depending on the traits you selected in the Holosmith line. The answer I’m predicting would be; no.
What you will end up wishing is that you could use the Holosmith with a different trait line other than the Holosmith’s own trait line.
We’ve talked about this long enough. The preview weekend is on Friday. I will revisit this topic after that.
Literally dont have to take alchemy to deal with conditions anymore unless you really want to overkill it on condition removal
The worst part is i suck at pvp and pve now so my argument isnt that strong but from what we know right now holo smith is far to good, it makes condi and power engi alot better for pve, for WvW we might not be number one on the list for GvGs but for solo and small group pvp we are so much better, for spvp holosmith will tank like a scrapper and do far more damage then a scrapper.
with the amount of buffs holosmith will give engi your title should be “why does the rest of engi suck”
it was a change for holosmith dudes, most of the holosmith toolbelt skills are instant cast meaning that you can get the stacks real easy when you need to, add in the fact that holosmith gonna crit with no precision investment means you can take all the boon duration you want and use radiant arc skill on top of that and youll have quickness for days on end and assuming that entering and exiting photon forge count as a toolbelt skill then yea further makes it strong on holosmith.
Shield doesn’t need any changes. It’s probably the best one aside from chronomancer’s in the game. The only reason it isn’t used in PvP or WvW is because the main hand pistol is just about the worst weapon at our disposal.
Shield isn’t used anywhere.
I’ll repeat myself for emphasis: The only reason it isn’t used in PvP or WvW is because the main hand pistol is just about the worst weapon at our disposal.
im really hoping we dont get shield touched because to many people are complaining about it without realizing that its basically the best shield in the game.
personally ill use shield in spvp and WvW atm, way i see it is its better for defense then tool kit and if i drop tool kit there is a better utility for condi damage then off hand pistol but using all the blocks is neat to heh
Been using my celestial gear in WvW for small group roaming for the first time in ages not an optimal setup yet but i can engage really easy making it alot easier for my team mates to setup there kitten and by the time my defenses and kitten run out rocket boots is back up its great, spvp i went the most glass i could with rifle and just ran around +1 every fight i could worked out allright but ill see how it goes versus decent players later on at some point
i think they were trying to make it an appealing trait line to take with explosives now that dodge bombs no longer has a cd and you can turn them into 3 mines although not sure the best strategy on makeing those 3 mines land yet to
Rocket boots has the most of my attention now. Double leap, might finally make Engineer ‘very’ mobile. Also that quickness is extra sugar on the cake. Means it is now truly a good escape still me think.
This, been playing around with it and i think engi could make a really strong +1er for spvp now and we can effectivly stop thiefs from decapping with that extra speed we are getting from rocket boots, the question now is do i go burst condi burst or more tanky.
works neat with the medic gyro to can get 2 leaps and 2 blasts off in the water field.
(edited by ukuni.8745)
As far as PvP goes im seeing some interesting builds specially for 1v1 point fights with firearms sword is going to have a huge amount of crit potential without any precision, personally im looking forward to running an SD build, allways been a fan of sd builds but its allways been a more damage or more survive ability problem cant get quite enough of either to make it viable but with the extra damage sources from photon forge and holosmith might have some really good potential to tank pritty well and deal a kitten ton of damage but time will tell.
Ive been running this with a great deal of success.
You can drop some zerker for more tank if ya want but ive tryed this with a 50/50 of celestial and soldiers and honestly when there is alot of enemys higher stats dont save you your utilitys saves you, Elixir Gun imo is a big waste in WvW since fights are alot more mobile and its quite slow to get the job done for condi clearing and if youve been nailed with conditions suddenly chances are Auto elixir S is going to pop before you can remove them and recover with EG.
When im in larger groups with this build i focus on being well ahead of the pack since its really easy to zerg dive and survive with your utilitys so you can open into an enemy pack really easy and try and split them or take some attention for your team mates to get an advantage, the other thing is my build is lacking condi clears compared to yours but its also got a kitten ton of lifesteal and other healing going on and that will stop any light damaging condition application in its tracks and if you get condi burst your build still aint going to save ya from that.
anyway more on the game play essentially its all about engaging packs with thunderclap→rocketcharge→electrowhirl→ and then shockshield/block/invlun/dodge away so you can stealth up and rinse and repeat use your other utilitys accordingly like balwark gyros on openings to minimise incoming damage (also when it blows up you get super speed which will give ya some healing and some mobility to stay on enemys or fallback) use tk for box of nails when your falling back and since you can still hit like a truck you can easily magnet people away from there zerg and zerker them down relatively easy, rocket charges CD puts it in the perfect spot to cycle between using it with thunderclap and reconstruction field meaning everytime you use it your either going to get healing from the water field or healing from procing the shocking speed trait not to mention the healing that will come from Blood/leeching/omnom pies/bunker down.
well hope this helps.
I run full zerker with defender runes, blood/leeching sigils and the usual inventions/alchemy/scrapper traits, in scrapper i take the traits for super speed and swiftness healing, i take medic/bulwark/stealth gyro with tk and elixir s, and precision and life steal foods. Dont worry about any toughness or vitality youll never get them high enough to make them worthwhile and have relevant damage, dont worry about elixir gun and kitten like that yea its handy but your way to on the move in wvw to get alot of effectiveness out of it, you could use healing turret if you want for team heals and condi clear but i find in a proper group setting medic gyro out preforms it with bonuses from the scrapper trait line you get with it and the mobile protection and water field and in group settings other classes are just so much better for condi clears but if ya have to ya have to i guess.
So, something like this -> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdIQFASnUUBFpi1XBmcBEqilJji+tr7AX8ZKgAIc7SmwC-T1BGABlpjgIlfov/Qgq/MlSwEugAA8gA2MIAMBIh///mkkIEQ5xA-w <- ?
very very close just 1 trait change and change of runes
the super speed from the trait is not only good for the healing but great for the super speed, if you zerg dive like i do then naturally one of your gyros is genna get popped giving you super speed to gtfo, balwark gyros lack of casting animation really helps out with guaranteeing that you get that super speed to, and defender runes are just stupidly op on power engineer in general, med kit was actually my go to with defender runes befor they ruined it hahaha.
I run full zerker with defender runes, blood/leeching sigils and the usual inventions/alchemy/scrapper traits, in scrapper i take the traits for super speed and swiftness healing, i take medic/bulwark/stealth gyro with tk and elixir s, and precision and life steal foods. Dont worry about any toughness or vitality youll never get them high enough to make them worthwhile and have relevant damage, dont worry about elixir gun and kitten like that yea its handy but your way to on the move in wvw to get alot of effectiveness out of it, you could use healing turret if you want for team heals and condi clear but i find in a proper group setting medic gyro out preforms it with bonuses from the scrapper trait line you get with it and the mobile protection and water field and in group settings other classes are just so much better for condi clears but if ya have to ya have to i guess.
one time in WvW next to a tower i got pulled into the side corner bit of the tower thats kinda not level and it launched me over the wall, that was a fun day
is it really a 15k burst if it takes 10 seconds to do that damage tho?
Heres an idea, how about anet sells them to us in packs.
EG, get 5 heavy outfits for medium or light for only 500 gems or vice versa and boom anet has just robbed me of another 1000 dollers
i personally land jump shot all the time and im in Australia with that perma 200+ ping.
also with an unblockable on overcharged shot and evade would be amazing, just think hey thats a nice reflect wall it would be a shame if someone knocked you out of it.
Anet i love that your buffing the damage in pvp for rifle and im sure a alotta other people also love this but someone needs to say this.
Its Shock shield VS Selkittenittenil you finally make that kitten an evade frame backwards its just never going to compete with hammer unfortunately.
that is all.
P.s Id dare say that with an evade frame on Overcharged shot and that damage buff it could nearly be as viable as scrapper/hammer in Spvp
p.s.s just found out you can say CC
p.s.s.s just found out you cant say CC after saying self.
(edited by ukuni.8745)
I like the line of thoughts op has.
lol @ the person saying its skill to cover conditions, ya know except the part where builds can blob 5+ condi in less than a second.
i also said “to much burst not enough damage over time.” take away that burst and make conditions legitimate damage over time like they used to be then all of a sudden cover conditions is a skillful thing.
Covering your condis with other condis is considered being skillful, i think the real problem is the damage thats coming outta conditions, to much burst not enough damage over time.
Now you know how us Flamethrower lovers feel.
i didnt think dead people felt anything
threw a nade barrage at a group once……took 8k damage
holy kitten this has been happening heaps to me, i usually cancel alotta skills like acid bomb and what not but lately its been happening when its not ment to and i just thought maybe this is what its like to not have bad ping.
200% critical damage is crazy, don’t you meant critical chance? Or do you mean that the critical hit of the ram itself would do much more damage (which would be interesting, like our own little headbutt)?
Yea i mean just extra crit damage on the ram only.
[…]
And i think it would be a shame to make mine into a grenade only, rather i would like to see it more effective at its “purpose” which is tactical area denial. To be fair making the toolbelt strip 1 boon from everyone walking over it instead of only one and have those detonations (not manual!) be unblockable might actually make it a serious tool for wvw. The problem is that right now its more of a sneak up, place and detonate in the same move kind of tool which is as far from how you would expect a mine to work as healing turret is from a turret. Making the explosions when the enemies walk or are pulled into the mines stronger somehow would allow more counterplay and make a mined area dangerous. But i absolutely agree on a fixed formation instead of a random pattern (which pattern is debatable, sometimes a “circle” would be preferable i suppose)! […]I don’t think he wanted to make the mine a grenade. I think he meant that you can place it on the ground and it won’t trigger if someone is walking over it. So you can prepare the battlefield with it by placing it unseen like a trap. And in the perfect moment, you trigger it to cc as many enemies as possible.
About the toolbelt: I think the mines should be invisible. How they are right now they don’t function like mines at all. You are running to an enemy, get out your mine field and detonate it immediately, hoping to hit with every of them.
I think mines should be the engineer version of traps. You can’t see traps of enemies, so why can they see the mine field? Would be better to be able to prepare a field of mines unseen from the enemy to be able to surprise him with a great explosion. And it isn’t that easy to dodge them either because of the random spawn pattern.
for the throw mine skill the idea is that it wont detonate unless you activate it instead of it being walked over and detonated allowing an engineer to set it up and utilize it at the right time instead of hoping an enemy runs over it at the right time.
as for the mine field i agree with yas both and with anet throwing around words like purity of purpose the idea of making mine field more appropriate of design is even more important now then ever, im not totally sure what we could do to them to fit the concept but something that promotes a more sustained playstyle and less yolo would be a good start.
For those that have not noticed the Throw mine skill is already invisible (no idea if it is intended) but that fact has made it a very usefull tool and i would love to see this extended to the other mines engineers can deploy.
i think we all know this already i think we are actually referring to the throw mine tool belt skill which is visible
Skill: Throw Mine. will now only detonate on command, gadgeteer now removes 3 boons.
In its current state its either a trap or a knockback grenade, allowing the engineer to put it down and detonate on command gives a player alot more control over a situation you can arguably say that in its current state it already does have alot of control but allowing you to take advantage of a on demand knock back/boon removal gives the engineer a huge advantage.
ToolBelt Skill: Mine field. Mines are now thrown in a straight line with the first mine starting at 100range with the last reaching to 450 range away from the engineer.
this gives it way way more use then its current way its used which is in pure glass cannon builds EG, enemy is running at you throw down a mine field and strip 5 boons and watch him run over the mines, using rifle then net shot->throw mines->over charge over said mines.
Toolbelt Skill: Analyze. no longer makes target revealed, attacks are now unblockable for 3 seconds cd increased to 50 seconds.
Thematically this makes more sense to me, you analyze a target which gives you information on there defenses and thiefs will think they got an indirect buff, in the current meta we are seeing alot of blocks and range denial with unblockable attacks this will really reduce the whole hit and miss application of gadgets, used properly this indirectly buffs gadgets sustainability in combat EG, how much damage do you take when someones trying to heal back up.
Skill: Personal Battering Ram. Gadgeteer now applys 200% more critical damage.
Gadgets are notoriously bad for actual damage application from the skill itself PBR is also bad for not even being very good for actually landing a hit let alone doing any damage, now the idea for this change comes with the idea that it works well with other trait lines aswell as its own trait, now if you look at firearms trait line we have 3 traits high caliber and no scope and to a smaller extent hematic focus that really increase the chances of getting that crit damage bonus.
Skill: Rocket Boots: Gadgeteer now gives a 50% condition duration reduction of movement impairing effects and super speed for 5 seconds.
Arguably this skill is already pretty good but lets look at this in a PvP sense, it really makes it alot better for getting out of combat and away from an enemy but more importantly with the super speed it allows the engineer to potentially rotate from fights to other points/fights much more rapidly with the addition of super speed, it also functions with a particular trait from the inventions line.
Skill: Slickshoes. Gadeteer now applys 2 knockdowns per target.
That change to slick shoes is arguably what stopped people from using it, with some of that good ole knockdown back but controlled by gadgeteer it makes it a far more build defining skill since its forcing a trait line in order to maximize its potential.
Toolbelt Skill: Static Shock. now deals area damage around stunned target, casttime reduced to 1/2, range increased to 300
I think ive only managed to actually land this skill like 2 times since it was released so a bit more range/cast speed makes it alot easier to land and since it does have decent utility with other trait/skills itll make the heal seem more worthwhile.
Toolbelt skill: launch personal battering ram. Will now evade player backwards on top of current effects.
this is some massively needed utility for a skill that lacks in alot of areas compared to other skills available as well as that whole idea of more sustainable benefits to gadget focused builds.
Well if yove gotten this far i have one last idea and that is a new trait that could replace gadgeteer itself or another trait
New Trait: Gadget Scrap. Gadgets leave various scrap behind.
AED: drops a antidote
Throw mine: leaves a box of shrapnel(nails)
Utility Goggles: drops a stimulant
Rocket Boots: does an aoe Blind (Smoke vent)
Slick Shoes: drops a accelerant
Personal battering ram: not quite sure about this one but im thinking something that gives quickness.
Next i do Gyros.
So far anet your attempt to make gadgets somewhat better have been just kinda sad, instead of calling you out for not being very good at balance im just going to assume that you like alot of us atm just dont kittening know what to do with them without making them either useless or the new meta so im here to help.
there are quite a few things that gadgets dont bring to the table that another skill does for example comparing PBR to FT or Elixir B to utility goggles, incase you haven’t figured it out its the case of Gadgets are a hit or miss and bring nothing else to the table unlike the vast majority of commonly used engineer skills if something goes wrong.
another problem is the possibility for damage when using gadgets, now i think weve all seen what mines can possibly do but we are talking about balance here and not yolo mode, this isnt so much a hit and miss problem as it is a reapplication of use problem, if we were to slot more gadgets then other skills it simply diminishes our ability to survive to use that gadget again and again where as a kit or elixir will help with that cause allowing more sustained use of the skill.
The next problem we face is balancing gadgets without making them superior while still giving them there own identity as a skill, essentially think about what gadgets would be if we just had a gadget kit instead of five different skills, it would be rad but it would still just be another kit and thats not what we want we also dont want them to be shoe horned forcing a gadget only build or nothing allowing for extra variation in other builds, the gadgeteer trait and some of the skills them selfs actually do a good job of giving a feel of individuality to the skill and thats something they really need.
with all that outta the way lets look at what we can do to gadgets.
Firstly the only gadget traits and other certian traits that apply to particular gadgets, befor i get to indepth what we can do to give our selfs a better idea of what we can do to improve individuality of a skill while also buffing it is looking at Throw mine and how it functions with other traits aside from the gadgeteer trait, since its an explosive it does get a bonus from the explosive traits which dosent really help the skill out very much but does allow us to use this idea to help improve the gadgets overall.
Trait: Gadgeteer. Heal for 100hp (0.1 from healing power) for every stack of static charge consumed.
I know what your thinking kitten Ukune we dont need anymore kitten like this but you all need to remember what it actually means to take the tools trait line and gadgets in a build, now that that is over lets look at how it affects gameplay, using aed will become more viable with this trait with no healing power your looking at best a 4844 heal with a 22 second cd which makes it alot better for use in a sustained situation instead of popping it at low hp and hoping the enemy dosent notice, with multiple gadgets this also helps us overcome the short lived nature of builds that use gadgets, i would like to go more in depth about how this effects the current meta and other related stuff but thatll be to much writing.
Before we go on id like to remind people to remember that when you take a gadget slot it takes 1 of 3 skill slots meaning you cant take some other skill in that slot.
its a good start but the major problem with these skills is the amount of application of effect they have versus other skills/traits eg, battering ram versus flamer, like the biggest problem im seeing is if you buff baseline gadgets to much they outshine other skills to much and become a baseline without building around the idea of the skill just like slick shoes befor they were nerfed on the other hand dont buff em properly and they just stay gimmicky as kitten.
i do like the idea of increased damage after using throw mine tho, since it offers good damage with its toolbelt skill baseline and boon removal so it would make it one nasty wombo combo utility skill.
Except it’s not. I saved commenting on other aspects just because my post was getting extremely long, but the Healing Turret with Inventions basically gives you near permanent regeneration, which means near permanent +250 healing power—substantially empowering your Rapid Regeneration.
The problem with the Medic Gyro, is that the only regeneration you get out of it comes from Healing Amplifier, which means you want to detonate it immediately to maximize your returns for Final Salvo—creating further disincentive to keep it out.
Every aspect of the Healing Turret just snowballs into each other. It’s quite an amazing healing skill. I just wish the Medic Gyro actually offered something that made it worth taking over it versus just giving us a mobile water field for WvW.
Medic Gyro was never horrible and it has its uses, but in general it’s hard to let go of the condi cleanse and double water field on the healing turret, even with the nerfed cast time.
No it’s now my primary healing skill after the casttime increase on turret
i was serious guys i literally used medic gyro over healing turret like all the time since hot released.
it must just be my kittenty aussie ping that makes it so good in my eyes.
wait just a second……..
was i the only one who thought medic gyro was better then healing turrets when used properly?
I agree. I don’t really understand why Thermobaric Detoniation even has a cool down. It’s not like it can be spammed.
Sigil of Energy + Elixir R + Vigor/Implant= An easy 6-7 dodges with little investment. With the current state of Scrapper if you were to throw Function Gyro into the mix you have an impossibly tough Stomper/Resser surviving through crazy blocks + dodges with free blasts on every use? This particular setup would also mean that you can INSTANTLY revive a player through use of Function Gyro + Toss Elixir R every 40s if done right. It isn’t hard to see why allowing this to become a spammable trait is being avoided entirely by Dev discussion. If anything were to happen, Thermo needs to be folded INTO Evasive Powder Keg and replaced with something that honestly has a chance to compete with Shrapnel and Siege Rounds.
honestly im not sure you fully understand the actually problems that come with running the build your describing in a legit fight/match neither are you looking at this compared to another class in terms of viability overall, take a long hard think about this and get back to me.
on another note, give it a 2 second cd, if your spamming dodges good for you otherwise atleast now we could effectivly plan kitten around this trait alot easier.