Ok now deal damage or do anything remotely useful.
Close tie between Foefire and Niflhelm.
I think I prefer Niflhelm because it’s less subject to snowballing. Forefire’s easy roaming and large mid-point make it rather easy to maintain your hold on a point.
No, upgrading beyond an i5 is not worth it for PC gaming, especially not for a game as dated and poorly optimized as Guild Wars 2.
No 64-bit client,
poor multi-core optimization,
No Direct X 11.
Technically Guild Wars 2 is from 2010.
I don’t get why all MMOs have these kinds of junk-items. All they are is cash that takes up inventory space.
In a world lacking a good reward system and suffering from inflation they seem entirely counterproductive.
Thieves, Elementalists, Warriors all run these runes in the majority of their PvP builds.
Elementalists and Warriors can commonly stack up to 25 Might with the right tools, all by themselves.
The Runes are incredibly overpowered and need a nerf. They are currently the biggest driver of overpowered specs like D/D Ele and various Warrior builds.
But rather than just changing the stats slightly, I think we need a completely different 6-piece bonus. Making the Runes all about Might stacking is fine but the damage bonus is not. It should be replaced with something different like: “20% chance on hit (10 second cooldown) to steal up to 5 Might stacks from your target.”
I do think un-nerfing Cloak and Dagger in sPvP is warranted. It was done to nerf a very specific build and play-style, one that has been irrelevant for over a year now.
The same applies to Dancing Dagger even if it was rather effective against builds with minions and pets. But frankly I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It definitely needs something to make it more appealing.
Death Blossom just needs a complete redesign. And mobility is something D/d sorely lacks and I think that might be a good place to start.
But let’s be honest here. NOTHING is going to happen. Nada. We’re two years into the game and I don’t recall ANY skill undergoing to fundamental redesign.
When I hear “CDI” I am always reminded of Skyhammer and ask where the collaborative development is on that?
60-70% consider it unsuitable for soloQ and have voiced their opinion on that for a year, in a very vocal manner.
Yet here we are.
I dont see whats the problem with a 20/50min fight to cap a garri
I didnt said it is a problem ^^ Also like it.
I wouldn’t mind it either if it was actually an epic Siege battle like you might imagine.
But it’s not. It’s a “battle” around a single, unbalanced mechanic.
It’s not ok.
Thief is great for roaming.
But it seems impossible to enjoy the class as soon as more than 6 people enter the fight. Then there’s just too much random damage and CC flying around for you to do anything.
Necromancers do much better in those situations. And since zerging is a big part of WvW, my vote would go to them. The only time I really find myself logging on to my Thief is when I need to take revenge on some kittenhead who ganked me repeatedly.
Edge of the Mist obviously.
Other than that Abaddon’s Mouth was pretty famous for their Karma Train.
I just read the summery on reddit.
At first I thought I was missing the context but it really does seem like all they did is explain how classes work……..or not.
As in, I’m not even sure they play the same game based on some of their quotes.
Just further cements my opinion that ANet is incompetent when it comes to class design and game balance. I just remember how the community had to literally black-mail them to get decap engies nerfed.
That deduction would be entirely correct.
There’s a reason they are so over-represented in all aspects of the game, from WvW over PvE to sPvP.
People are too focused on 1v1s when talking about balance (for understandable reasons) and that’s why Guardians tend to “fly under the radar”. But their win-ratio and impact on games is undeniable.
So if I hear the devs say “Guardians are fine” one more time during the next podcast they will lose what little credibility they have left.
If you hate dying and don’t have any dignity or self-respect then roll with P/D.
Get full Dire gear and spec something like 2/0/6/0/6 or anything else really and go to town with 2 buttons. Add a 3rd if you’re feeling skillful. No matter what situation or what enemy, you will constantly be hitting Cloak and Dagger followed by a Sneak Attack for ever and ever. As mentioned, adding some Agony is purely optional but it does increase your kill-speed.
That’s pretty much it. You have just become a “pro” roamer.
WoW…I haven’t seen one of these threads in……ages. Heartseeker QQ is so retro.
Seriously though, it’s really not a problem and easy to capitalize on with a little experience.
I agree that having Thieves in your team is generally bad at lower ratings.
But the higher you get, the more useful the Thieves get. Having 2 Thieves in a high-ranked game isn’t an auto loss. In fact it’s not bad at all.
The only class I’ve found that really makes a definite difference is a bunker Guardian.
Having a Bunker Guardian while the enemy has none is almost a guaranteed victory.
Other than that, Warriors are generally good, Mesmers…less so. Everything else is sort of a toss-up.
Healing Signet is still too good. But somehow ANet loves that skill or something because it’s been stupid for a long time now. I really don’t get why we even need a passive heal in a game with so few abilities. It’s not like we need less abilities to use.
That and Runes of Strength are probably what keep Warriors so good.
However should Healing Signet and Runes of Strength ever be nerfed (which they totally should) I think Warriors will fall in line. Stuff like double Endure Pain will seem less kittened when he doesn’t heal for 5000 HP while it’s active. Other things too will seem less ridiculous.
The problem with condition damage is that unlike melee attacks, conditions attacks are poorly telegraphed and tend to be applied by proccs and random effects.
And Warrior’s Evicerate may hit you for 6k. But it will be a swing with a limited range, easy to anticipate when he switches to Axe. It’s a fairly fast animation but can still be dodged if expected.
A single Incendiary Ammo procc on the other hand can deal the same amount of damage and come from practically anything. It’s practically impossible to avoid completely.
They are also too generously applied by all sorts of effects like exploding Illusions and pets. They just end up flying around everywhere.
And once you spec for conditions, these types of spammed conditions end up being actually quite dangerous.
It’s not the big, telegraphed condition attacks like the Warrior mainhand Sword burst skill that are the problems. It’s all the other stuff that is constantly spammed that makes conditions so OP.
And the +40% condition duration food just exasperates the problem.
I don’t think ANet even has a plan, at least not one going beyond living story, as to what they want to accomplish with this game and what direction they might want to pursue.
And Skyhammer is the best example of how much ANet takes our feedback into consideration.
I.E. not at all.
I don’t think Guild Wars 2 has any coherent design direction whatsoever.
Decisions are made ad hoc, with no greater concept or vision to follow, with no thought or consideration for a greater plan.
They created what was originally a good MMO with an interesting twist and turned it into…..something with no concept. Guild Wars 2 “endgame” is essentially a gold farming contest. The richest players are those who watch trading post data all the time and manipulate markets to everyone’s disdain, not players actually playing the game. sPvP is shallow and while fun at it’s core, horribly balanced and unfun in practice. And then there’s Ascended gear, something NOBODY asked for and NOBODY wanted and yet still came despite it conflicting with ANets original manifesto.
Guild Wars 2 is a mess of a game, quite frankly. It’s like all the clever people who actually knew what the hell they were doing left the game and moved on to newer projects as soon as it went live.
Sure, update balance around PvE all you want.
But nothing is going to change as long as DPS is the only thing that matters.
I was having such a good run in sPvP over the past days. I was winning a lot, getting decent teams (mostly) and managed to avoid Skyhammer.
Until today.
3 Skyhammers out of 4 games is just about enough to drive me back to tPvP.
And the worst thing is just how purposefully ignorant ANet acts on this issue.
In ANY other MMO a map or feature that is despised by the community (about 2/3rd dislike it) would be immediately removed. Like within a month. Hell, even 30% voicing their discontent would warrant a serious redesign.
But ANet just sits there….and does nothing. For over a kittening year now.
I mean wtf.
For all this “collaborative development” nonsense you talk about you have received pretty unanimous feedback about this map for a year now and IGNORED IT ALL.
What else can I say except kitten you guys for being the least cooperative MMO devs ever.
Yes, Rallying is an incredibly dumb snowballing mechanic. It really makes me question the devs ability to design coherently. That, among other things, is why I so despise the entire downed-state mechanic and everything that surrounds it.
I leveled a Ranger briefly to unlock the Hints.
I used a Sword.
Oh my god it was terrible. I almost understand why Rangers hog their Bows in PvE. It is the single most clunky, annoying and unresponsive weapon I have ever seen.
And yet lots of samples of subjective information = objective information.
Here’s a duel video from what looks like just after the patch (at least based on the amount of Might stacking on Sizer).
http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo/b/521536475
Teldo isn’t even using his supply drop and Sizer never really has much of a chance. So if the Engineer knows what he’s doing, you really don’t have much of a chance.
Most conceptually broken:
- Guardians (I know, not a common choice) – Way too much group support and survivability packed into a single class. Way too many group synergies and boon-spamming. They have become essentially what Monks were in Guild Wars 1. And that’s something we wanted to avoid.
Most numerically overpowered class:
- Warriors – Healing Signet is still too effective and easy, damage is very high, as is survivability. No real weaknesses, just generally too good at everything.
Most overpowered class:
- Engineer – Condition spam is just excessive, especially with all of it being hard to avoid and AoE. Coupled with bunkerish builds it’s incredibly overpowered.
Most overpowered trait:
- Prismatic Understanding – Has made Mesmers ridiculously durable with very little trade-off and resulted in a very unfun play-style.
Most overpowered mechanic:
- Stealth and Shadow Arts – Remove conditions, Blind, Regenerate Health, run faster, invisibility, Might stacking, high-damage openers). Is there ANYTHING stealth doesn’t do?
I.e. there are multiple angles to look at each class. Warriors for example, while being slightly overpowered, can easily be fixed by nerfing Runes of Strength and some of their numbers a little.
Guardians on the other hand need a much more fundamental redesign. They encompass way too much defensive utility and have dominated the meta since day 1. There is a reason they are the most commonly request class for Fractals, Dungeons, WvW and even sPvP. And it’s not because they are balanced.
Engineer vs. Thief is probably one of the hardest counters in game.
The excessive condi-spam combined with the large amounts of CC and kiting make it an extremely uphill battle.
As Domey pointed out, this is one of the few fights where a ranged weapon is actually useful. Harasses them from range, trying to avoid their condition and never fight them inside their supply drop. Once you’ve taken out his towers and chipped away at his HP….you can switch and try to go for some burst.
This prompts a lot of Engis to go into “kite mode”, blowing a lot of their CDs. So fall back again…harass with bow and wait for another burst opportunity.
The big problem with this tactic though is maintaining your health. It’s difficult to sustain yourself when you haven’t got any stealth to fall back on. So your dodges have to be spot on.
S/D tends to fare a little better since the dodge spam can avoid a lot of the CC and damage. But it’s a bit random and can easily go south if your dodge-frames don’t align perfectly.
Yes, P/D condition Thief is the pinnacle of the low-risk/high reward associated with condition play-style and part of the reason it has received so much criticism. And it still remains a major balance problem.
Thankfully D/P is probably one of the few counters to the build. Constant Blind spam is the only effective tool for denying P/D Thieves a Cloak and Daggger and thus denying all the benefits that come with it (Regeneration, Condition removal, Sneak Attack etc.).
At least it has been a while since I lost to a P/D Thief.
Ignoring group-specific requests is just asking for trouble, even if they are dumb.
Other than that, most players will always opt for the path of least resistance. And currently that involved Guardians, Eles and Warriors.
It seems like roaming solo is a dying art. I can’t recall the last time I actually met an enemy player roaming around the battlefield by himself.
I see plenty of roamers though…in packs of 2, 3…5. It seems like everyone has given up on fair fights and prefers either running or completely overwhelming their enemies.
A shame really since solo-roaming used to be kind of fun. But now it feels like nobody dares leave the house without an easy backup.
Why? so the crazily OP’ed thieves can smack you down before you can even retaliate? Lets face it, most dont solo anymore due to the fact that thieves have the ability to unload massive DPS then stealth and remove any condi, then rinse and repeat until enemy dies. There is absolutely NO fun in trying to kill someone that keep cowering in the shadow. I believe it is because of this that people roam with 2 or more.
If specs/classes currently viable for solo play were suddenly nerfed to the ground would you see solo gameplay open up for wvw? I think the likely answer would be no, it would probably kill it altogether.
One of the big reasons people group up is to take advantage the most IMBA thing in WvW: the downstate and rezzing, something solo players have no access too. The other reason is that Anet has made it incredibly hard to get kills even in 1v1 situations because of how tanky players are allowed to get. Its getting to the point that battles are being decided more on having that one extra guy over skillful play, basically mini-zerging.
If you want to see how refreshing quick kills and outnumbered fights are, go to EotM and focus on fear/knocking people off ledges. That’s the most fun Ive had solo-playing in WvW recently (well, at least until EotM devolved into a brainless karma train)
Yeah, so much this.
Run with a tanky Guardian and suddenly you’re immortal. Even a full glass cannon can’t pressure a tank Guardian enough to prevent him from reviving his team-mates.
Downed-State is the most kittened mechanic ever in a video game.
The +/- 40% Duration food is massively overpowered, no doubt. But otherwise I think Food increases the build diversity and is something that sets WvW apart from sPvP.
There are so many easy ways to fix this. But ANet just doesn’t give a flying kitten.
I think Warriors are powerful…..but not quite overpowered. Much of what makes the class powerful isn’t directly due to Warrior trait, but their good synergies with Runes and Sigils.
The double Endure Pain, the scaling with Runes of Strength and the many synergies between Sigil of Intelligence and Evicerate are what push them slightly over the top. But they aren’t the biggest imbalance atm.
Technically Shadowsteps (Infiltrator’s Signet, Blink, Shadowstep) etc. are displacement effects. They “teleport” you to a new location. This means that in contrast to leaps and rushes, they don’t scale with speed-increases or the likes.
You literally just appear at a new location. You don’t technically pass through an area.
But then why do I still get stunned or knocked-down when I Shadowstep out of a Static Field or Guardian hammer bubble?
It seems inconsistent with the way the skills should work.
Warriors have high base-line survivability. That means they are durable even without investing into it.
Guardians on the other hand get most of their survivability from cooldowns, traits and proccs. Overall they are much more durable in practice since those cooldowns are far more valuable. But you do have to make a few trade-offs to get them.
Well I wouldn’t call it terrible. It’s just that the strengths of Shadow Arts lend themselves to more extended fight, which you rarely have in sPvP.
The 4 seconds Revealed plays into that as well.
Trickery also happens to be really good in sPvP. It’s has boon sharing and boon stripping, both of which are essential for killing bunker Guardians.
If they nerfed Shadow’s Embrace.
Conditions are already our biggest weakness and that trait is our only reliable removal.
D/P actually does quote well against the numerous S/D Thieves out there.
But honestly, I always found the build lacking in sPvP since it lacks a defining strength. The main issue is Backstab hitting so poorly in sPvP due to the lack of Ferocity. Any Pistol Whip will hit harder, cleave, stun and evade all without any setup.
You also get the Black Powder for finishing etc.
It’s still great in WvW though.
I don’t really think S/D Thieves are any worse than many of the other builds that couple high damage with overpowered defensive cooldowns for survivability.
Warriors have double Endure Pain builds, DPS Guardians can combine insane burst with mitigation cooldowns and so can almost every other class, especially those with viable condition-bunker builds.
I do agree that Feline Grace could do with a minor nerf since it stacks too well with Vigor. Endurace Sigils could user a ner4f as well. 50% bonus stamina on weapon switch is rather a lot when taking all others dodge enhancers into account. Maybe it too should just add 5 seconds of Vigor on weapon swap so it doesn’t stack up so nicely.
If you want to win reliably roll a Guardian.
Guardians are the most vital class for every comp and have been since day 1. Going up against a team without a Guardian of your own puts you at a severe disadvantage.
Yes, other classes might be more overpowered and stronger at XYZ. But when it comes to winning, nothing is more decisive than having a Bunker Guardian.
I think Double Endure Pain is pretty stupid.
It seems like roaming solo is a dying art. I can’t recall the last time I actually met an enemy player roaming around the battlefield by himself.
I see plenty of roamers though…in packs of 2, 3…5. It seems like everyone has given up on fair fights and prefers either running or completely overwhelming their enemies.
A shame really since solo-roaming used to be kind of fun. But now it feels like nobody dares leave the house without an easy backup.
Yeah look you can redicul me for not being an expert on ALL class mechanics. But that’s besides the point.
This isn’t about class A being too good or class B needing a nerf, it’s about Protection especially and (to a lesser extent) Regeneration and Vigor being too abundant considering their relative power.
Guardians are the tip of the ice-berg when it comes to this issue since boon-rolling is a core mechanic they rely on. But with Guardians making up such a huge portion of the organized WvW zerg population and having by far the highest win-% of all classes in SoloQ I think there’s a good basis for balance concerns.
Maybe ANet could introduce a mechanic that allowed Guardians to maintain Boons on themselves as much as they do now, but reduce the number and/or duration of boons shared with allies.
You make a good point OP.
Burning is an incredibly powerful condition. It can deal thousands of damage in just a few seconds and is readily available to many builds. I needs a more obvious telegraph and must be easier to predict and avoid.
You can’t have a condition that can tick for 7000 damage be on some sort of passive procc.
I think the best solution would be to use Badges of Honor for purchasing WvW upgrades in keeps and towers instead of using real money.
It makes sense that a currency exclusive to WvW would be used in such a scenario rather than generally useful Gold.
I wanted to talk about the current state of balance based on my experiences from both WvW and sPvP. Some things I say will be based more on WvW, others on sPvP.
In my opinion the current major source of imbalance comes from Boon- and Condition spam.
Let me explain. I will list all the classes and builds I currently consider overpowered.
- Warrior – Healing Signet in general, Hambow + Strength Runes.
- Guardians – Bunker Guardians in general. Have been uncontested bunkers since lauch, add may too much group support and boon sharing. See massive amounts of Guardians in WvW (especially zergs) and win-ratio in sPvP for proof.
- Rangers – The perma-evade spam builds with constant Protection and Regeneration.
- Thieves – Excessive Blind spam with Pistol offhand makes them hard to counter in WvW. P/D sustain/pressure is pretty stupid too in WvW.
- Engineers – Poorly telegraphed condition burst and condi-spam in general Especially Burning deals insane damage all while being able to kite and CC.
- Mesmers – Prismatic Understanding…enough said.
- Elementalists – Insanely overpowered in WvW. Way too much damage and sustain in WvW thanks to Runes of Strength and constant Protection and Regeneration.
- Necromancer – Minion Masters are a bit op in sPvP, again due to constant Protection and Regeneration.
Now you can argue all day about specific imbalances but that’s not my point. My point is, that if you take a look at this list a lot of OPness from specific builds comes down to a high uptime and both Regeneration and especially Protection (and to a lesser extent Vigor).
The thing is, Protection is an incredibly powerful boon. And yet it is handed out like candy to a lot of build allowing them to achieve insane levels of survivability with very little trade-off. Having a high Protection uptime is like putting a cloth class in heavy armor. When combined with Regeneration, which too, while being a weaker boon is still very abundant, and Vigor it creates a very tanky meta that doesn’t trade offensive for defense in a fair way.
Conditions benefit from this because they circumvent Protection and are applied and spread very easily.
Guardians deserve special attention in this regard. While in themselves they may seem ok, once you add them into a group they add an insane level of sustain with very little trade-off and thus breaking the balance. This is evident in the ridiculous amounts of Guardians modern guilds stack into their WvW line up. This is the same reason they have been the uncontested bunkers in sPvP with no other class ever being able to fill that role. Is this good or fair design?
So what does this mean?
Well frankly I think ANet needs to take a good look and how easily and abundantly some builds and classes can stack Protection especially, and to a lesser extent Regeneration. PU Mesmers are probably the pinnacle here and a great example what sort of game-play ensures when these boons become too available on too short a cooldown.
Protection is a powerful boon and should be treated as such, not handed out like candy on a children’s party.
Guardians need their boon-sharing capabilities nerfed. I don’t think it’s ok for “defensive group support” to be an aspect almost entirely relegated to one class. Spread the love.
Both proccing together can lead to some pretty stupid burst, true.
But unlike conditions the attacks that trigger them are much easier to avoid. A thief hitting you in the face is a pretty obvious thing to avoid. A random procc worth 5000 damage (such as Dhuumfire) on a random, untelegraphed ranged attack not.
As a roamer and burster, you really shouldn’t be too concerned about 1v1.
If you’re fighting a fair fight, you’re doing it wrong.
As a roamer i tend to inavde far or burst strugglers in midfights.
Now far has either nobody -> cap
1 person -> win 1v1 + cap
more than 1 person -> disengage and help end outnumbered midfight quicklyhow is that wrong?
Ghostwolf explained it quite well.
In a competitive scenario home point is typically held by a strong and durable build. One that can last a few moments even when outnumbered and one that excels at 1v1 scenarios. Hence Hambows, Minion Masters and Spirit Rangers are often found camping home point.
And none of these builds are easy kills for a Thief. Even if you can win it will always cost you a lot of time and you might not even be able to cap the point before reinforcements arrive.
That’s why I always frown at Thieves who insist on pushing far point even when it’s guarded. Not only does it achieve very little, it can also cost them a team-fight somewhere else.
I do think someone at ANet reads it on occasion. But nothing really comes of it.
And to be fair, I think we’ve sort of reached a point where people are complaining about all classes equally.
I.e. the imbalances now aren’t really within the different classes but rather within individual mechanics (like boon-spam, condition-spam etc.). And getting precise feedback on stuff like that is difficult because players tend to focus very much on a 1v1 experience in PvP.