Guild Wars 2

uberkingkong.8041:

I’ve played over 1500 games with this leaderboards, what I noticed is that you win, you go up 3%, you lose you go down 3%. When your on the leaderboards you win you advance around 100 ranks, you lose you lose around 100 ranks.

If your watching your win/loss streak while on leaderboards, if your up 5 wins and your at rank 440, it will take 5 consecutive losses to knock you off the leaderboards no matter who you play.

It doesn’t matter who you play, if your unlucky and lose to the top 5 ranked leaderboard people at 40%, you will be 37% next time it updates if you haven’t played a game.

Highly incorrect. This only happens if you play with a full team of people who are closely rated to each other. I was rank 200ish and played with a guildie that was ranked in the bottom 10%ile. Won 5 games and went up to lower 200’s. Lost 2 games and shot up to 700+. Your team’s average rating is weighed against enemy team’s average rating. If you’re higher than the average, the greater the difference between your rating and the average rating of your team, the less points you get for winning and the more points you lose for losing. This also takes into consideration the enemy teams average rating if its lower or higher than your teams average rating. It’s more complicated than a simple win/loss ratio.

How is this unfair again if everyone can do it? It’s like saying its unfair that someone doing more work than a lazy kitten is better off.

Maximillian Greil.1965:

ok… ready for this? take a stunbreaker.. they break stuns. Let them stack whatever they stack on you and use your SB, or… use your SB and do a barrel roll. Just about every class has a stun breaker. “I’m using utilities that give damage” is not an excuse.

Not part of his build, how dare you give advice to his infinite knowledge of MMO gaming and unparalleled years of experience. To disagree and suggest otherwise to his absolution is blasphemy.

nakoda.4213:

What don’t I get?

more ways to spend glory = good (I said that in my post)

spending glory for rank = bad.

just because I disagree with you does not mean that I do not understand what you are saying.

what part of that don’t you understand?

what makes you so righteous as to assume what I do or do not understand?

The part where you claimed buying rank with glory was somehow interpreted as “pay to win”

runeblade.7514:

Broadicea.8294:

Whining about groups that insist on LoS pulling mobs is a surefire mark of an awful player who thinks you should just mash 1 to win in every group. Considering it’s been the hallmark tactic of pretty much any game with aggro/leash mechanics since like, ever, I don’t see why people have such a hard time accepting it as a strategy.

You can use it if you want, but I will not be impressed when you do it.

Hate to break it to you, but I highly doubt a majority of guild wars 2 players will be doing it to impress you. There’s very few people who’ll feel proud about saying “I did this challenge w/o LoS’ing”. There’s just no prestige in it lol.

Glory =/= rank. You do not double your rank points with glory boosters.

I never knew “paying” for your rank won you games in pvp lol? I don’t give a kitten if you’re rank 50 or rank 60, all it means is you played more pvp. I’ve had rank 10-20 teammates play better than rank 50’s. I’ve got rank 40 friends that just cant get into top 1000 since they just can’t get past their skill ceiling.

I agree there needs to be more things to buy with your glory, some form of profitable currency that can be converted into gems (do not say unidentified dyes are profitable).

Talking about dying to a P/D thief in a PvE forum discussion. The best….

hammer.9721:

Dub.1273:

P/D? It’s hard to imagine someone isn’t disappointed when seeing that.

Dont get me wrong i do like groups when its me and 3 zerk warriors and a mes since i can get my daily revive done in one run sometimes.

Whats funny is I based my statement on your words but somehow you go off into a different party setup. Again, I can do cof farm all day with any party makeup I can think of flawlessly, does not make it any faster than optimal speeds of farming.

For the record, I spend less than 2min finding a cof path 1 party easily. Unless you can do 3 runs in <2min, your statement is invalid.

hammer.9721:

seems to me there are a few others that realized you dont need the so called meta group group in this thread and the comment about me being a freeloader lol.guess some people are stuck in their wow days still thinking only a certain make up of classes can do something even though it was laughable there as well.

What’s funny is that you actually think your P/D thief is pulling its equal value to the rest of the warriors in your group. I could bring my necro and auto attack and be proud that we can do “speedrun farms” but I wouldnt be so deluded as to think my necro is pulling its own weight. (not dying is not the same as pulling your own weight).

Erebus.3897:

Ioflux.4369:

The difference in bringing a pro thief and a pro warrior is minimal at best. Warriors can kill the gate before final boss faster given they actually do a proper dps rotation. The difference in time that you’re looking at in optimal dps groups with thief vs warriors is <30s difference. Warriors just have more cushion for failure than thieves.

The difference between

*4 Zerker Warriors
*1 Zerker Mesmer

and,

*3 Zerker Warriors
*1 Zerker or Knights d/d thief
*1 Zerker Mesmer

is probably 10 secs less per run on the latter, which in a 2h farm is 1 run more, which is more money.

If you want to get technical about 10s, I wouldnt run with 95% of gw2 community due to them not loading fast enough in and out in between runs. If your loading screen takes longer than 2s, then I wouldnt bother with that kind of mentality. Good thing that I dont count my money by the “seconds” but by the food timer. I can get 9 runs per food, 10 if you swap between two characters alternating foods. (Warrior and mes, got gold infusion on both).

Point is, 10s isnt the difference between taking a thief or a warrior, its the number of runs you can fulfill per foodfit hour.

The difference in bringing a pro thief and a pro warrior is minimal at best. Warriors can kill the gate before final boss faster given they actually do a proper dps rotation. The difference in time that you’re looking at in optimal dps groups with thief vs warriors is <30s difference. Warriors just have more cushion for failure than thieves.

I just want a video of a group with thieves in it seemingly doing it faster which was suppose to be 2-3weeks ago.

Clearly every class was meant to do the same damage by something that is not even specific to any of the classes. Why bother having customization and different weapons if they just wanted everyone to do the same damage with a non class specific item/skill?

I too would like closer dps balance amongst the classes, but not by something outside of class mechanics.

Individual Skill =/= Ability to lead a team. I’ve played against top 100 players and beaten them 1v1 repeatedly but playing against them as a team, they definitely deserved the win. They’re good “team players” in a “team game”, go figure. People mistake their individual skill as some kind of validation that they should be higher ranked than people on the leaderboards. It’s the better teams that win, not the better 1v1’er.

Its hard to implement a Deserter buff cause i’ve had tournies where I dc’d and rejoined in <2min. I’d hate to have a deserter buff just because my game crapped out. I do agree something needs to be done about it though. I rarely ever get 5v4’s on either of my accounts that I tpvp in. I find that leavers are much more prominent in lower rated matches as compared to playing in top 1000. Same way how LoL worked, all the trash/leavers/afkers/trolls were in what they called “elo hell” and anyone that lost enough matches that fell in there would have a hard time getting out. People are able to climb out, and there are some people that deserve to be there due to various reasons; afking/leaving/ragequitting/trolling/ or just plain unskilled, whether they think they should or shouldnt. I think that if anyone thinks they are as good as they think they are, they will climb out of those lower brackets.

Phira.3970:

For last trait tree, you’d want +1 bounce trait for 33% more damage on GS 2.

And no, a Warrior does not do gate faster than a mesmer.

Said that last time about thieves doing it faster than warrior, then got proven wrong. I’d like to see it done faster than a warrior. Not saying mesmers cant do it fast, but if someone says its faster than something, I’d like to see it.

How do you spread the news to those that refuse to listen? (sounds like a jehova witness question)

haviz.1340:

Guardian’s job is to tank aka be an anchor, not to try dealing some pitiful damage.

Tell that to the guy who’s deluded that guardians do more dps than warriors.

Me and some guildies had some engineer in house fun with 9 of us. If a pug joined us and saw 9 engi’s, I don’t think that is a representation of anything. Last sunday we had guardian sessions.

I dont understand how you would have “more camera movement” as compared to someone who holds their right click key at all times. I have a guildmate that is trying to enter competitive Tpvping and when i spectate him on a regular basis, I see alot of tunnel visioning going on (albeit he’s not the best pvper) but I believe part of that is attributed to him using combat mode. As for ground targetting, it’s as easy as turning on fast cast.

No one dodges in the run… except for the falling crystal. We even go as far as eat the large fire aoe since we know its going to die before the damage means anything.

How many top rated players do people know and can absolutely confirm plays with Combat mod, Im wondering if its actually more convenient for some players. The idea of having to toggle it on and off to be able to click a target seems counter productive to me. (yes I know you can just press T to select a target, but being able to switch from target to target priorities on the fly seems slightly handicapped for combat modders).

I love how defensive you get from me linking a thread lol. Anyone who has the slightest bit of comprehension knows that after reading the guru thread, your claims are not actually true, but please do keep my work boredom occupied. You stopped replying there since you can’t actually prove your claim, no one agrees with you, so now you’re on this forum to make another stab it.

I definitely appreciate your idea to give more respect to rangers and getting people to give them more viability but to stretch truths, make exaggerations, living in theorycrafted ideal land, and not providing “real evidence” outside of perfect thought out scenarios is more damaging to the community.

I’m going to save people alot of time and maybe some entertainment.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82622-rangers-out-dps-warriors/

Just go to this thread and read it. Same topic… better results… and also more humerous if you’re into that.

Emissary.3792:

I’m not convinced on the ele/mesmer. 11k in 1 chain means you need to get 4 chains off in the space of one HB, and 2 chains off in the space of one WW. Might make up a bit of time during GS cooldown, but switching to axe keeps sustained damage up (+ tons of vulnerability) for 5 seconds, maybe 2 chains, before getting off another burst.

Elementalist can easily hit over 10k+ per auto attack (not per chain) with lightning hammer. Giving a mesmer a lightning hammer will also increase the mesmer’s dps after his initial shatter burst but I dont think itll actually hit as hard as an ele’s auto attack due to mesmer not having as many modifiers as an elementalist does.

I’d also like to ask what gear every person is using as couple of our players were being cheapasses. Runes / sigils / etc.

I do agree that the difference in acolyte speed is backstab speed versus eviscerate speed which is fractions of seconds accumulated 3 times. Only 2 acolytes need to be killed instantly (and same 2 after every spawn) to get the fastest time possible on acolytes.

For point #1, there is no “not portalling far enough”. The only way to speed it up any faster is to get absolute perfect timing on when to vote and taking portal which both our groups are not 100% perfect on.

Phira.3970:

Now compare the video and see if your claim is true. ^

Then you’ll see that the only part we truly loss was at #2 (which I already conceded to on page 1) and how we got stuck in cinematic at #1 and before #8. We won in every other parts except for boulders (no relevance to thief or warriors) and gating (because of banner, but if we did the same, we’d get similar results.)

Stuck in animation is poor argument for part #1. If you wanted you can have your ferrah puller tell you when to enter dungeon so you aren’t holding it back. You’d have plenty of time to reach the gate before magg blows it up even after loading. (I’ve run with slow loaders, I make them wait outside till I tell them I’ve got the vote up). Ill compare both videos side by side when I get home from work.

You claim your run wasnt perfect, and neither was ours. Our imperfect run was faster than your imperfect run despite you theorycrafting our run after TW nerf would be 20s slower (not exclusive to only TW nerf, as you claim random stuff got changed, which I don’t believe).

I had to slot blink to the gate after our warrior pulled ferrah just because he was passing my portal before i can even drop the exit.

Again, 5:43 is not our best, but its still beating the record. When you guys broke our previous time, we suited up, went in and rerecorded without complaining or nitpicking. So just stop with all these excuses and complaining about what couldve been but didn’t.

I reckon its a pvp based nerf. They have a tendency of nerfing it as a whole instead of where its suppose to be targetted.

Phira.3970:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Ah so the opening part no longer counts because it doesn’t benefit you. Got it. If you did that part 10 seconds faster than us somehow, I assume your position would be the same?

I never was even for the video idea. We are totally disadvantaged here because of our CPU specs (as evident in the difference in time the 2nd gate opens.) And the video idea was a pretty ridiculous idea to begin with. It just shows who’s more coordinated and who has better CPU specs. I’m sure most people here realize that these factors are completely irrelevant to team comp.

And that was your idea. You guys are trying to dodge the initial bullet and putting more burden on us because you guys couldn’t answer the initial questions of how GS warriors actually out damage thieves.

And for those just reading this, here is the original 8 segments I presented that they still haven’t yet answered of how GS Warriors would outperform thieves.

1) pulling Ferrah meaning you get her to follow you before you choose path to be able to skip the dialogue faster and then portaling the person pulling ferrah

2) pulling charrs to turret and aoeing them down

3) killing Slave Driver

4) Running to acolytes to trigger acolytes faster

5) Speed killing acolytes

6) Boulders

7) gating

8) last boss

And I actually gave GS Warriors a point here because they would outperform thieves only at the charrs-> turret part because of better AoE power. But I also said that in every other aspect (boss kills, running to acolyte, acolyte killing, etc…) thieves would outperform GS Warriors. I’m being 100% objective here. No phat warrior pride. No phat thief pride (I don’t even play thief, I’m the mesmer.)

Finally, to answer your question, we’re playing fair. We’ve played your game (by recording), and we still probably will be (even with our lesser CPU specs clearly evident at the start). But, since you guys still haven’t played my game, I wouldn’t say you guys are being fair at all to begin with. This whole vid. recording junk is just a cover-up for your guys inability to answer the questions above. But don’t worry. I’m sure the audience is more attracted to the videos than pure logical argumentation, which is why we’re even playing this game.

Ill go ahead and answer a few of your silly arguments.

1. Warriors have Sword leap, Greatsword whirlwind, greatsword rush, Bull’s rush, and 3 of those skills can be used on the way back as well as increasing their distance travelled with swiftness.

2. 4 Warriors Aoe burst > 2 warriors + 2 thieves aoe burst. Follow by eviscerate 2nd turret.

3. Killing slavedriver in 6-7s in both videos, nothing to compare

4. Running to other side of bridge, Banner #4 skill, Sword Leap, Whirlwind, Bull’s rush, Rush, and sword leap again. (Fyi, our warriors are not accustomed to mastering this rotation as compared to the people who actually farm cof which werent in the video, so they were slower at doing this).

5. Acolytes die from 1 eviscerate, no different than thieves backstabbing them. Difference in time versus a backstab versus eviscerate is <1s. Feel free to nitpick a instant cast attack versus and leap windup.

6. Boulder’s is irrelevant of class

7. Gate controller, time starts the moment the door opens (which strife casted bladetrail too late), not the moment you feel like smacking it, so no, thieves does not do it in 2.7s, in your video, thief took ~5s from gate open and strife took 5~6s.

8. Rushing + whirlwind + banner rushes will allow for the 2 back warriors to enter final boss room faster (which we didnt even use warbanner, only banner of str. and discipline, str. being used next to gate controller killer which was picked up by mesmer due to mesmer lack of leap/rushes). So one of our warriors in the back didnt have a banner rush to use. Final boss, strife got knocked down regardless of feedback reflecting (shaved 2s off his dps).

You don’t get to decide where you want your videos to start and end when you compare videos just because you can’t pull off the same speed/time. That’s just a poor excuse. I’m open to having our record being beaten, as it pushes us to go faster. We can still shave it under 5:40 if we polish up a few parts.

As far as my memory serves me, the acolytes spawn the same duration and the gate time hasnt been change. I’d love to hear a dev actually say “we tweaked aco spawns and gate timer by a few seconds” to believe it. If I am incorrect, then I’ll gladly accept it, but not a believer atm.

At the end of the day, our purpose for doing these is not to discriminate people from running other classes. It is to create a speed run. I reckon subbing an ele out would make it just as fast if not faster, or subbing out a purely glass cannon lichform necro. I dont care what I run with as long as I get 4 runs per food.

Dahkeus.8243:

Seriously? Is the viability of a thief in CoF really being judged over a 10 second discrepency between videos?

At this point, its no longer about viability as it is people getting kitten that their theorycrafted numbers are not as accurate as they claimed. (pro misinformation). I can think of many ways for us to go even faster than 5:43, but to make up excuses cause their short lived record was beaten is just poor sportsmanship. Just keep it classy stick to footage speed times, they’ll speak for themselves. All this garbage jargon on what could of, should of, but didn’t is pointless until a video is posted.

Our run was not perfect, we had a few mistakes, but to come up with bs like itd take us 20s+ longer cause TW was nerfed is getting way ahead of yourselves.

If you’re taking 65 matches to get 6000 points, you’re doing something wrong. You can easily achieve this in a short period of time. There are ways to do this in <1hr as well ~30games.

Hint: Quit runnin around killing people and do objectives.

haviz.1340:

In this case “sometimes” ~= 21%.

May I ask how you arrived at 21% of all encounters a Tyrian player goes through?

Example: a bad player who never dodges would never be able to maintain more than 90% of their hp.

Pinch.4273:

haviz.1340:

My crude calculations shows that scholar runes will be better than ruby orbs if you manage to stay above 90% of hp about 21% of the time.

It’s a bit worse than that, since Scholar runes are additive with the other compound multipliers (you’re doing 10% more of your unmodified damage).

Having said that, Scholar is still pretty much always the better choice when playing a glass cannon in the current available content.

“Whenever you can keep your hp above 90%”. Which is not “always”. Closer to “sometimes” than “always”.

Scholar “CAN” be better, but is not always better. Feel free to advocate throwing away alot of money for “min maxing” when the difference is highly situational and insignificant. Rather have universal armor for dungeons, than an armor set that works better in a fraction of the dungeons.

Dub.1273:

Scholar runes are still better than ruby orbs and will probably always be.
@Waraxx: It’s not only a CoF thing. Everywhere in PvE berserker gear works best by far. Using pvt or clerics or knights (well, an anchor should throw in some knight pieces) are just suboptimal – they suck.
A 5 berserker group is going to do every dungeon in this game faster and easier than a group of random armor sets.

This is such bad advice lol. Scholar runes ONLY do more damage when you’re above 90% hp. How often do you find yourself at 90% hp to be able to maintain that dps? Scholar runes also cost significantly more than a ruby orb. Ruby orb gives 12% Crit damage on warriors that already have near if not 100% crit.

Take your pick, pay 90s for 120power, 70 precision, 12% crit dmg on a constant basis or pay 22.8gold for 165 power, 8% crit dmg, 10% damage only when you’re at 90% or higher health.

The 90s vs 22.8g alone should be enough to make a decision.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Diviner.7405:

In order to increase you chances of succeeding, you have to make sure everyone that doing it completely understand what the heck is going on. Communication is key.

This is the correct answer. Guild content is about coordination. If you truly work together, you don’t need nearly as many people to complete this content.

Yet you created content that can be trivialized by having quantity over quality. It’s doable with less people with communication, but even more doable with more people with no communication.

Aomine.5012:

We don’t really care about your blabbering or theory crafting.
His time beats you, that’s the fact.
If you wanna prove him wrong, show another video record in his way and then prove him wrong. End of story.

And since you’re talking about PuGs, it’s much easier to find a decent warrior than a decent thief, since many of the thieves are so BS that ppl don’t wanna waste time trying on all the thieves out there.

Anyway, please guys, back to topic.
Where’s the 10g in an hr?

“Ioflux.4369:
Please show me the math of how this is ~10g an hour not including exotics/yellows/lodestones.
(assuming bar)
First boss = 14s
Acolytes Chest = 10s
Final boss = 22s
Completion reward = 26s + 13s + 6.5s + 6.5s(continuous thereafter) (assumes you did your daily batch already)
Lets say on average you get 12-15 blues/greens from drops (~1s each) = 12-15s
A speed run takes 7min (from zone, door open, Path vote to final boss). People tend to forget to include zoning + path voting time as part of their run time. The only way to get a time faster than 6min is to abuse a bug with skipping but lets say that you’re not doing that bug.
60min / 7min = 8.57 runs an hour.
1st run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+26s = 84-87s
2nd run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+13s = 71-74s
3rd run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
4th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
5th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
6th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
7th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
8th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
Total = 5.42g – 5.66g (for first hour, less for consecutive hours until you reset DR)
Include your tokens for ectos, you get
1st run = 26-29 tokens
2nd run = 16-29 tokens
3rd run = 11-14 tokens
4th run = 11-14 tokens
5th run = 11-14 tokens
6th run = 11-14 tokens
7th run = 11-14 tokens
8th run = 11-14 tokens
Total = 108 – 132 tokens.
Which comes out to ~4 yellows ~ 4 globs ~ 4×37s = 1.48g
So in 1hr you have 1.48g + 5.42-5.66 = 6.9g – 7.14g.
7.14g/hr assuming you can maintain 7min run indefinitely. Most groups average 7.5-9min run from very start till the next startup. No rares/exotics/lodestones included. This number will also drop after the first hour since you no longer get full silver and max tokens. Please enlighten me where this is ~10g.
tl;dr: nothing else better to do at work.”

Yeah, I agree with you, I still never seen ~10g an hour without gettin lucky for lodes / rares / exotics. (I’ve had runs where 2-3hrs worth i got none of those). And I’ve clocked well over 300-400 hours worth of cof farming for multiple legendaries.

Shadow Espada.9183:

Ioflux.4369:

woosh, I can make ideal scenarios too and claim it universally. No where did I say take 4 thieves and 1 mesmer so I don’t know why you even brought that up.

We can keep talking about theorycrafting all day, in the end, it means nothing without a video. So when you get that, then we can talk. Mind you, no one in that video bothered getting Sigil of Smoldering nor Sigil of night just for cof runs. Those builds being used are universally ran from CoF, CoE, Melee Lupicus, to AC, to every other dungeon video made by that guild. I can guarantee our times could be even faster if we really decided to push out maximum speed by running dungeon specific sigils, damage food, Atk Dmg booster from gems, stacking bloodlusts, swapping gimmicky utilities for EVERY mob encounter.

We’ve asked scootabuster to upload a video of his proclaimed “thief in party do it faster” well over 1month+ now. I can only assume he has not been able to do so when he himself has stated that he’ll be loading one “soon” and that he’s farmed CoF enough to have gotten his legendary by now.

PS: You missed the point about the acolytes, the difference in time of killing the acolyte with a thief and warrior is <1s to where its not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is if all 4 people are standing next to one when they spawn.

LOL aight aight lets rephrase.
“In terms of only warrior vs thief in single target burst, a thief CAN outburst a warrior, but in a party scenario, thief not providing party utilities drop the overall DPS of the party for that minor burst difference between the two classes.”
“In terms of only warrior vs thief in single target burst, a thief CAN outburst a warrior”
soo true.
“but in a party scenario, thief not providing party utilities drop the overall DPS of the party”
true again.
But, all u need is 2 warriors to provide maxed might+vul, therefore 2 war/2thief/1mes, would do most outgoing DPS. I mean u already have maxed of everything and might stack doesnt go over 25, IF POSSIBLE 4 warriors can but its just not possible lol
4 thief may not be as good, but you never know what 8 hounds+4 Ambush+11might stack atleast n 25Vul does(never tried it).
And I have both Mes/Thief, So I would know how 4 war/Mes runs and war/mes/thief together.

“yawn”, again we can theory craft as much as you want, in the end, our video outruns yours “theorycrafted party”. So when you can provide footage, all your arguments to prove your point are null and void.

I’ve played all 8 classes of the game, it does not make it credible for people to believe when I say I know how all classes work with all their builds (which I know I don’t). I rely on visuals to prove my point, something that people can see and is unrefutable, not scribbles written in someone’s head of the ideal theorycrafted scenario.

Footage > Theorycraft.

I will accept your setup can do it faster when you can beat our speedrun, and we attempt to optimize our equipment for cof run specifically and still can’t beat it. Until then, our non cof specialized equipment setup still outruns the one you’re boasting.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Shame you took offense rather than trying to see the value in what I said. Either way, good luck on your own time frame in whatever you do.

It’s so difficult to teach people the meaning of “choice” and the driving force for making those choices. I too enjoy my game alot more when I don’t think about other people being “ahead of me” by such negligible stat differences. I pride myself in doing fractals with 0 AR at lvl 48 without gettin hit by agony until maw.

Shadow Espada.9183:

Ioflux.4369:

Shadow Espada.9183:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Weird, my full zerker d/d thief doesn’t do 51k cnd+backstabs even with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vuln.

tl:dr fake numbers are fake.

Lol not every thief can hit that hard, try using 30/30(+30%crt dmg)/ 0/ 0/ 10, Superior scholars rune(10%dmg^90%HP) with +10% more dmg when target has condition(trait under 25th Deadly arts) and +20%dmg (30th trait Critical Sctikes), +10% more dmg when initiative is over 6(25th trait in Critical strikes) plus 20%dmg from Superior sigil of Smothering/Night. On top of that all possible Ascended Accessory, Ring, Back, Amulet with the +4-5 mighty infusion for amulet,back, and rings.
…..but with right traits/sigil/runes buffs thats additional 50-60% dmg. See what u get.

The conditions you are stacking to make this number is not “consistent” and therefore not applicable to describing as the “norm”. You will not be sitting on 90%+ hp all the time, your initiative is not always “higher than 6”. Do not take your “highest possible damage” and claim it as a standard. I can say a warrior HB + Whirlwind can hit over 70k (yes it can) in a short time frame, but to say that that number is what you should be hitting at all times is foolish and misleading.

In terms of only warrior vs thief in single target burst, a thief CAN outburst a warrior, but in a party scenario, thief not providing party utilities drop the overall DPS of the party for that minor burst difference between the two classes. I don’t mind taking good thieves for cof runs, but there’s less cushion on a thief than a warrior.

PS: Warriors can 1 shot eviscerate the acolytes so the difference is backstab speed vs eviscerate speed. The discrepancy moreso comes from if you are next to the acolyte when they spawn or not.

Lol where did I mention a party of theaves + mesmer. What am saying is a having 2-3 warriors with 3 FgJ + Battle standards and mesmer with mirror blade and Signet of inspiration would bring Vulnerability and Might stack to the max(25stack). 3-4th warrior is not needed. A thief or 2 with hounds/ambush would do more dmg. and with Critical Strike’s 15th trait grants more initiative(20% change on crit) and “VIII, Signet Use” gives more initiative…also 1rst tree under trikery grants 3 ini on steal..soo yes u can easily have 6+ initiative AT ALL TIMES…..and besides theaves can only use CAD 2x and boss would b dead. And staying at the maxed dagger range would make the warrior the punching bag for the boss and that would keep theave’s HP at 100% most of the runs. Been there Done all that
2 warrior with FgJ/Battle standard, 1 mes, mirror blade, 2 theaves with steal, grants initiate 13 might stack x2 using signet of inspiration…..
Vulnerability and Might will still be at maxed.

woosh, I can make ideal scenarios too and claim it universally. No where did I say take 4 thieves and 1 mesmer so I don’t know why you even brought that up.

We can keep talking about theorycrafting all day, in the end, it means nothing without a video. So when you get that, then we can talk. Mind you, no one in that video bothered getting Sigil of Smoldering nor Sigil of night just for cof runs. Those builds being used are universally ran from CoF, CoE, Melee Lupicus, to AC, to every other dungeon video made by that guild. I can guarantee our times could be even faster if we really decided to push out maximum speed by running dungeon specific sigils, damage food, Atk Dmg booster from gems, stacking bloodlusts, swapping gimmicky utilities for EVERY mob encounter.

We’ve asked scootabuster to upload a video of his proclaimed “thief in party do it faster” well over 1month+ now. I can only assume he has not been able to do so when he himself has stated that he’ll be loading one “soon” and that he’s farmed CoF enough to have gotten his legendary by now.

PS: You missed the point about the acolytes, the difference in time of killing the acolyte with a thief and warrior is <1s to where its not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is if all 4 people are standing next to one when they spawn.

emikochan.8504:

Wethospu.6437:

Warrior, doesn’t matter whether team is alive or dead (preferably dead).

IWAY?

my ele and engineer keep people alive and tank mobs pretty well. dps isn’t everything :p

You must not know who weth is, he has a collection of videos of him solo’ing dungeons. His party being dead makes boss attacks more predictable and easier to manipulate. Some encounters are easier to solo than having a party full of people not knowing what they’re doing making it messier.

JJBigs.8456:

Ok well I was new to warrior at the time and didnt understand endure pain totally.

What happened ( I think ) now is.

V Shape Attack Knocks Me Down
Somehow afterward agony gets applied to me and I take damage (But didnt notice the source of the damage)
I assumed the damage was from the V Shape attack since it knocked me down.
It might or might not of been from agony idk.

I see now using endure pain in other areas, that I get knocked down all the time.

Thank you for the clarification on 1. endure pain 2. other invuln skills from other classes

Go eat one with endure pain, check combat log and you’ll see how hard the icicle hits you for. If it doesnt hit you, nothing will show afaik, agony doesnt show on combat log.

To my knowledge, the Icicle (V shape) attack pierces through blocks, aegis, so I will guess that it will still do damage to endure pain. I havent attempted using renewed focus to block it though.

Shadow Espada.9183:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Weird, my full zerker d/d thief doesn’t do 51k cnd+backstabs even with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vuln.

tl:dr fake numbers are fake.

Lol not every thief can hit that hard, try using 30/30(+30%crt dmg)/ 0/ 0/ 10, Superior scholars rune(10%dmg^90%HP) with +10% more dmg when target has condition(trait under 25th Deadly arts) and +20%dmg (30th trait Critical Sctikes), +10% more dmg when initiative is over 6(25th trait in Critical strikes) plus 20%dmg from Superior sigil of Smothering/Night. On top of that all possible Ascended Accessory, Ring, Back, Amulet with the +4-5 mighty infusion for amulet,back, and rings.
…..but with right traits/sigil/runes buffs thats additional 50-60% dmg. See what u get.

The conditions you are stacking to make this number is not “consistent” and therefore not applicable to describing as the “norm”. You will not be sitting on 90%+ hp all the time, your initiative is not always “higher than 6”. Do not take your “highest possible damage” and claim it as a standard. I can say a warrior HB + Whirlwind can hit over 70k (yes it can) in a short time frame, but to say that that number is what you should be hitting at all times is foolish and misleading.

In terms of only warrior vs thief in single target burst, a thief CAN outburst a warrior, but in a party scenario, thief not providing party utilities drop the overall DPS of the party for that minor burst difference between the two classes. I don’t mind taking good thieves for cof runs, but there’s less cushion on a thief than a warrior.

PS: Warriors can 1 shot eviscerate the acolytes so the difference is backstab speed vs eviscerate speed. The discrepancy moreso comes from if you are next to the acolyte when they spawn or not.

Shadow Espada.9183:

Ioflux.4369:

Shadow Espada.9183:

JJBigs.8456:

I just base it off, 100b hits a bunch of times and the last hit is like 18-30k damage. On my thief, unload hits less times and end burst is 6k damage. I know unload is spammable, while 100b isnt as much, but still. I dont see how thiefs can outdamage.

The AoE is useful but i guess not “needed” as you described.

Ur comparing a melee warrior vs ranged thief lol. No wayy a warrior can out DPS my thief. My friend’s HB does 47k max in 1.75sec with WT + 25 stack of might n’ 25 vul on warden . While my thief’s CaD + BS does 51k+ in just .375 with TW and Its spammable every 3 sec. Auto attkin-wise, thief still does more dmg. and when prisoner has 50% HP n under my HS does 15k-23k in just .375 sec and can be spammed 5x in 2 sec with TW. Thats 75k-115k in just 2 sec. :P
Dont 4get about Thief guild n’ Ambush they do xtra dmg. But ofcourse, its hard to find a thief who actually know his stuff and with the right Trait. Thats how veryyyy few theaves can 1.90-4sec a gate in P1. ^-^

This is my run with my 2 friends + a decent and a pug who took the vid and only does 24k HB on first boss(slowed our run by alot.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwsSAHyhTb0

Here is a perfect example of a group that doesn’t time their “farming time” properly and decides time ticks the moment magg opens the door and not the entrance zone.

4 Warriors still do it faster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

Magg doesnt open the door till past 50s. You’re looking at 20~30seconds faster with warriors. Nice try though.

Like I said LOL thats a run recorded by a pug, and a decent warrior. Not a Full DPS group. See his dmg? His HB does half of my CaD + BS so does his auto attks and they dont kill Acolytes fast enough. When i farm with my full DPS friend we do 10-13 sec Effigy. If u want we can compare the diff between ur warrior and my thief’s DPS.

Beat the time, otherwise its just talk, no different than scooter talking to just bump this thread.

For the record: I dont “hate” thieves for running cof, but to advocate that the fastest time is done with thieves, it’s misleading. I’ll believe it when I see it.

Shadow Espada.9183:

JJBigs.8456:

I just base it off, 100b hits a bunch of times and the last hit is like 18-30k damage. On my thief, unload hits less times and end burst is 6k damage. I know unload is spammable, while 100b isnt as much, but still. I dont see how thiefs can outdamage.

The AoE is useful but i guess not “needed” as you described.

Ur comparing a melee warrior vs ranged thief lol. No wayy a warrior can out DPS my thief. My friend’s HB does 47k max in 1.75sec with WT + 25 stack of might n’ 25 vul on warden . While my thief’s CaD + BS does 51k+ in just .375 with TW and Its spammable every 3 sec. Auto attkin-wise, thief still does more dmg. and when prisoner has 50% HP n under my HS does 15k-23k in just .375 sec and can be spammed 5x in 2 sec with TW. Thats 75k-115k in just 2 sec. :P
Dont 4get about Thief guild n’ Ambush they do xtra dmg. But ofcourse, its hard to find a thief who actually know his stuff and with the right Trait. Thats how veryyyy few theaves can 1.90-4sec a gate in P1. ^-^

This is my run with my 2 friends + a decent and a pug who took the vid and only does 24k HB on first boss(slowed our run by alot.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwsSAHyhTb0

Here is a perfect example of a group that doesn’t time their “farming time” properly and decides time ticks the moment magg opens the door and not the entrance zone.

4 Warriors still do it faster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

Magg doesnt open the door till past 50s. You’re looking at 20~30seconds faster with warriors. Nice try though.

Ioflux.4369:

Please show me the math of how this is ~10g an hour not including exotics/yellows/lodestones.
(assuming bar)

First boss = 14s
Acolytes Chest = 10s
Final boss = 22s
Completion reward = 26s + 13s + 6.5s + 6.5s(continuous thereafter) (assumes you did your daily batch already)

Lets say on average you get 12-15 blues/greens from drops (~1s each) = 12-15s

A speed run takes 7min (from zone, door open, Path vote to final boss). People tend to forget to include zoning + path voting time as part of their run time. The only way to get a time faster than 6min is to abuse a bug with skipping but lets say that you’re not doing that bug.

60min / 7min = 8.57 runs an hour.

1st run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+26s = 84-87s
2nd run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+13s = 71-74s
3rd run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
4th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
5th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
6th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
7th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s
8th run = 14s+10s+22s+12-15s+6.5s = 64.5-67.5s

Total = 5.42g – 5.66g (for first hour, less for consecutive hours until you reset DR)

Include your tokens for ectos, you get

1st run = 26-29 tokens
2nd run = 16-29 tokens
3rd run = 11-14 tokens
4th run = 11-14 tokens
5th run = 11-14 tokens
6th run = 11-14 tokens
7th run = 11-14 tokens
8th run = 11-14 tokens

Total = 108 – 132 tokens.
Which comes out to ~4 yellows ~ 4 globs ~ 4×37s = 1.48g

So in 1hr you have 1.48g + 5.42-5.66 = 6.9g – 7.14g.

7.14g/hr assuming you can maintain 7min run indefinitely. Most groups average 7.5-9min run from very start till the next startup. No rares/exotics/lodestones included. This number will also drop after the first hour since you no longer get full silver and max tokens. Please enlighten me where this is ~10g.

tl;dr: nothing else better to do at work.

This is before ectos dropped in price. His math is horrible.

Invulnerability allows you to not take damage from agony. Endure pain is not an invulnerability. This particular bosses attacks are f’d in the head, the icicle drop goes through blocks and aegis.

Tell ranger to use entangle, tell your mesmers to bring feedback. It’s also preferable if they have focus skills grant reflection, but not necessary. If need be, have them pick up illusion of life as well. That fight is more about surviving and mob control than anything else.

Sarcasmic.6741:

Through the wall is still melee, so no it isn’t. Staff guardian just has a little extra reach than standard melee.

Except melee’ing inside the room does kill it faster than trying to wack it through the wall (which I’m pretty sure is non intended, not that I care). Reflected projectiles also count as dps on top of not having to switch to staff to attack the mobs you can’t hit in the back of the room.