Guild Wars 2

“ArenaNet are really looking after their core playerbase.”

If it were realtime I would only ever have the same time as I work during the day and play during the evening…

I prefer it as it is now.

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

Snerf.1650:

HiddenNick.7206:

jakep.9572:

Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats

And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.

One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.

I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.

I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).

And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.

1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.

lol…

WvW is just for fun… Becouse all those serious WvWers can be equipped fully exotic/ascended/whatever and have 200 sidekicked level ones as teammates… Your just being silly now.

No I’m being totally serious. This game was mentioned many times as the spiritual successor to daoc because of WVW being the new RVR.

It is the area of the game I am by far the most serious and competitive at. I don’t see why that is hard to believe.

I’m glad your having fun with it… But you will not get any adventage in WvW with equipment. I’ve already explained why.

Because you are under the delusion that increased stats are not an advantage?

BadHealer.3608:

Omega Mayhem.7163:

It’s not 8% higher stats… it’s 8% (if that number is accurate) on just a couple pieces of gear compared to their exotic equivalent… so probably 1-2% overall, if that.

And you don’t see the possibility that they will release the whole armour set with around 8% stats overall like announced, because…

Of course they will.

Otherwise all the players they hope to gain with the ascended set will leave soon after they finish grinding for it.

Raf.1078:

If you disagree so much with the coming changes…then just don’t do it. Don’t include it in your gameplay.

I don’t really get why there is this uproar.

Let me show you how much sense this makes.

Lets say we were talking about aimbots:

“If you don’t like it, don’t use them”

Bots (for gold farming):

“If you don’t like them, don’t use them”

The statistically best gear:

“if you don’t like them, don’t use them”

_ _

Has anyone worked out what these subjects have in common?

They all affect us whether we personally use them or not.

If the person I am fighting has higher stats, that affects me. If the mobs in the new content have higher stats because they are balanced around the top tier of gear, that affects me. And aimbotters and bots affect me in more obvious ways (combat advantage, completely altering the economy, etc).

SpectacularYak.6518:

Jestunhi.7429:

At no point did he mention the players opinion on what he was doing.

Is the player performing a particular activity repeatedly primarily in order to attain a reward other than personal satisfaction? If yes, it’s a grind.

I agree with this definition. It’s about repeatedly taking the same actions (crafting the same items, repeating the same DE chains, killing the same mobs, etc) because that;s what’s required to progress.

Uh…

You don’t think the reason and motivation that someone does something is unique to that player’s psychology? You think it’s given to us by the game, do you?

That’s not what I said in the slightest.

What I said is that no part of the definition involves how fun something is. Please re-read the definitions which were provided.

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

SpectacularYak.6518:

Focksbot.6798:

I don’t think it’s a threshold. I think it’s an objective binary. Is the player performing a particular activity repeatedly primarily in order to attain a reward other than personal satisfaction? If yes, it’s a grind.

You’re using the term as an element of human psychology. Josh thinks X is grindy, because Josh finds it boring. It’s basically just a synonym for things Josh doesn’t like, which isn’t terribly useful to anyone but Josh.

If we’re going to reach out and apply it as a label to a game…this game is GRINDY…this game is a TREADMILL…then we need some kind of objective standard. Otherwise we’re just communicating preferences, rather than actually establishing what kind of mechanics are in play.

At no point did he mention the players opinion on what he was doing.

Is the player performing a particular activity repeatedly primarily in order to attain a reward other than personal satisfaction? If yes, it’s a grind.

I agree with this definition. It’s about repeatedly taking the same actions (crafting the same items, repeating the same DE chains, killing the same mobs, etc) because that;s what’s required to progress.

Deth.4109:

did you not read what i said 2 of the previous times?

Yes, and the best you have come is claiming that the gear grinders will stay on to farm infusions?

I assumed that was a joke…

Deth.4109:

thats some what true, assuming ascendeds arent intended to become the new permanent level cap standard. i mean if they are then it pleases both types of players, example: all level 80s will in the future wear ascended armor, but by adding new infusions<possibly aquired through various means but for the purpose of my example ones specific to duneons> then hard core gear grinder pvers will have to constantly chase new infusios by doing this dungeon and thefore also be appeased.

It pleases both types of gamers?

Gear grinders – why will they stay for any longer than it takes to grind the new items? If these people judge how good a game is based on how high they can get the numbers in their character window then a single new tier of gear will keep them busy for a few hours of grinding and then they will have no reason to stay.

Non gear grinders – well, you can see exactly how happy they are with the change by reading this thread. There should be no doubt whatsoever that the response has been negative from this part of the community.

So please, how does it please either of them?

shambo.3842:

Thank you Anet for making a great game and providing more content to the game for FREE!
why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post. it explains a lot and im looking forward to it!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-the-new-fractals-of-the-mist-dungeon/

I wonder if ANet shares your amusement at the number of people planning on quitting?

If more powerful gear made me play more I’d still be playing a game designed around farming the best gear.

I’m not, so no it won’t.

smug.3895:

This notion that the developers have infallible data and/or interpret data objectively is a huge fallacy. Numerous developers have admitted in the past in other mainstream games that forum whining did affect their choices, and sometimes, led them to believe that the majority wanted something that simply was not the case.

In the end, LOTRO admitted their mistake and got rid of the Radiance system. To be honest, the backlash on radiance was not even close to the backlash on the current development. I don’t think any developer expected such a massive reaction, and this should have immediately raised many red flags to anyone with half a brain.

This especially applies when it comes to opinions.

This isn’t a balancing decision, this is them deciding to change the very core of the game to appeal to a different audience.

No amount of ingame metrics can tell you if that will make the game more or less successful.

Gordunk.7289:

So then why do you even PLAY the game is a 5 point stat boost bothers you that much? Gear progression from white to orange was known WAY in advance of release. Arena Net’s philosophy is not “No vertical progression” it’s that not having proper gear shouldn’t lock you out of being able to do content. You can still do all the content in this game, including Fractals, without any problem(and doing Fractals will get you gear to help make fractals easier). so what’s really the issue here?

Because you sound like you’re just whining, not offering any actual constructive criticism.

Please don’t complain about strawmans and then use the old “if you don’t want a new tier of gear then you must hate all progression including the current gear & leveling” strawman.

Deth.4109:

Jestunhi.7429:

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

how do you know theres a “NEW” target for the game????. what if ascendeds are there way of setting up for a more logically sustainable method of fufilling the original models purpose?

Clearly this new change is not aimed at the audience which all their previous statements, press releases, interviews, etc were aimed at, because they are now saying the exact opposite of what they were saying before.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I’m desperate for Arenanet to answer to the following.

After the full set of Ascended items have been drip fed into the game is another tier on the road map?

The answer will decide if I continue to play.

NB: So poor show to see that the controversial news and response to hate posts are being made by anyone other than Mike. Its your baby so take responsibility.

If there weren’t another tier lined up after this one then how would they keep the new target audience?

If they want to keep grinders then they need a constant grind, not just one new tier to occupy them for a few hours each time a new item is added.

Gordunk.7289:

Rhyaehar.9504:

Perspective?

I bought a product that was supposed to have horizontal progression in it and absolutely no vertical progression.

but after I paid, suddenly I’m being server stuff with vertical progression.
So it’s okay because the price was lower than other games?
What exactly am I supposed to put in perspective?
I made an informed purchase, I’ve consulted all available sources to make sure I’ll get horizontal progression and no vertical progression!

I’m glad you like vertical progression better than horizontal progression, but while you might feel like a lottery winner when you got your favourite type of game while paying for something that was to be completely different (why didn’t you read product description I don’t know), the vertical progression is something I want nothing to do with whatsoever.
There is absolutely nothing to put into perspective here.

There is still Horizontal progression. Do you even PLAY the game? Stats matter SO LITTLE in this game. The difference in stats between a rare and exotic is so little that it doesn’t even MATTER. The only thing that matters in the new gear type is the infusion slots, which are solely designed for dealing with one mechanic from one dungeon, Agony.

Please, demonstrate some more straw man arguments about how the game is ruined in a yet to be released update.

If the stats don’t make a difference as you claim, then why increase them at all?

Because they do make a difference.

Malediktus.9250:

Please go ahead and keep adding more item and character progression. Its a very good way to keep pve interesting for a long time. New skins are good, but what if you dont like the new skins or like the one you have more? After all visuals are personal preference.

You believe that in a game designed around the idea of not having a gear treadmill, the people who want a gear treadmill are the majority?

If this were the WoW forums you may have a point, but in this game?

coleman.2095:

I’m okay with this added tier if this is the only time they do it. I’m not okay if they keep adding tiers and increasing legendaries each time to the top tier.

What this is going to boil down to for me is that I’m excusing this ridiculousness for now. But as soon as they add another tier, I’m gone. Not that it matters to them, they have my money…

Why would they just do it once? What would it achieve?

Getting the gear grinders to start playing again for a short period while they get the new tier and then quit again?

That would solve nothing. They need to do it all the time or not at all. They need to decide if they want to aim the game at gear grinders or non grinders. Because it’s impossible to please both.

I’ve got an idea.

How about people stop telling others how to feel?

I think it’s safe to say that each proposed change will be met by different reactions by different people. If a certain change is a deal-breaker for someone then you personally disagreeing does not make it less important to that person.

I don’t know what ANet should be more ashamed of.

The decision or the way it was communicated & the replies they have made.

Cycron.5017:

Is Ascended gear better than Exotic gear for WvWvW?

No.

Why is having roughly 8% higher stats not better?

The stats are better, so yes.

Assuming it has the combination of stats which you need for your character.

Another 100 levels and 15 more tiers of gear.

Without this the game will fail!!!1!1!!!1!1!!!oneoneoen

It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with personal choice.

If I wanted to play a power creep game then I wouldn’t have bought a game specifically designed to not have it.

This whole “we aren’t adding a treadmill, honestly!” thing is the biggest joke of them all.

IF they are only doing very slow & occasional power creep instead of constant waves then not only will they still piss off the people who don;t like it but they won;t provide enough of an advantage for the people who do like it to stay ingame.

They will just log on each time a new item is added, grind for a few hours to get it, then log off and keep an eye on the news sites to see when the next item is added.

You cannot please anyone by trying to please everyone.

DeathLust.6579:

Being new to Guild Wars and not playing that other game from Blizz I must say that I’m a little confused. I see posts complaining about no end game and Anet adds what I consider new endgame content here comes all of the negative comments. Talk about mixed messages from the community.

I for one look forward to the new gear, as more of a casual player which borders on hardcore at times I now have something else to look forward to, but hey what do I know. If I don’t like the direction this game is going I can always stop playing it.

OP- great post and I appreciate it.

The people who start those threads are the people who should have researched the game before buying. GW2 was a game designed to not have a gear treadmill.

I don’t buy soccer games and insist I should be able to pick up the ball like American football games allow you to.

That’s how foolish these people look.

xiv.7136:

It’s a back item and a couple of rings to add a little something to go after when releasing a major new content update.

Relax. No need to be dogmatic and fundamentalist about the whole thing.

So, in your mind it’s possible that they will do it just with these few items?

You think they are trying to attract gear treadmill fans buy adding 2 new items? How long will that keep them here?

If they want to please that kind of player they need constant updates.

If they want to please people who dislike gear grinds, they need none.

Doing it occasionally just annoys both sets of people.

I want new content.

I just don’t want new tiers of gear to come with it.

Right?

How can that have decided to add a new tier of gear because it’s “what people want”? Given that they haven’t actually requested people’s opinions, how do they know what we want?

If they are changing one core ideal to try to attract a different crowd then there’s no saying they won’t change others.

Who knows at this point. There’s no longer any trust, they could do anything.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

I didn’t say the game was dying. I simply stated that it will be easier to find a server after the addition of vertical gear progression which was contrary to their manifesto that attracted a very large player base.

Not saying it’s dying simply saying they are ostracizing a decent number of people that are playing the game.

I wasn’t referring to you (or anyone specific, though it tends to be the kind of people who say “change the game to how I want it or the game will die!!!!”).

And for what it’s worth, I agree with you.

This major backlash on the forum is nothing compared to what will happen when it’s actually changed. The forum population are the minority and most people likely don’t even know about the proposed changes yet.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

It’s the community, not the game. People hate elitists, elitists hate pugs. If people never met an elitist they would more than likely never have cared about your gear nor even know that it mattered. I for one don’t know what any of my guildmates are wearing and I love partying with them for them.

What the game does will never change the community. Only you can change. So if you hate gear grinds, don’t do it, find people who are willing to accept you for you.

You are the one forcing this game to be competitive. Not Anet.

Or you could accept that it’s perfectly ok to provide feedback to ANet on a forum provided by ANet to get player feedback?

I read dozens of posts each day claiming the game is dead and that everyone has quit.

And yet they all seem to somehow miss not only the people ingame but also all these threads complaining that the servers are full.

Shootsfoot.9276:

/facepalm

And while we are at it, lets have aliens come down and put square wheels on it, too!

Jeeze.

What a constructive & convincing response.

I’m shocked you can’t convince more people around to your way of thinking when you debate this well!

The analogy in the post I first quoted made no sense, this isn’t buying one thing and demanding an upgrade free when the next thing comes out – that would be GW1 players expecting GW2 to come free for them.

What this is is us buying one product and then having the very core of it replaced with its opposite.

And to top it off the post I have replied to this time makes no sense either. The whole point is that I want the product that I purchased, in no way am I asking for any request as ridiculous as aliens changing my wheels. All I’m asking is for my electric car to have an electric motor for it’s entire life. I bought the car from someone who claimed that would be the case, so I’m understandably annoyed when they say “Sorry, we were just kitten you” and doing the exact opposite of what they promised.

Shootsfoot.9276:

ExpiredLifetime.1083:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Yeah, how evil is it for a company to make money, anyway?

So you like for your car dealer to lie to your face about what the car has, just to get more money out of you?

Horrible analogy, but I will humor you. First off, I test drove the car myself, I researched the car myself. I then bought the car and then drove it for 50k miles.

Now I’m to expect the dealer to take it back because there’s a new model with better features and other people can get it?

Completely wrong.

It’s like buying an electric car and finding out that 2 months later someone is going to come rip out the electric motor and throw in a generic gas guzzler.

If you wanted a gas guzzler don’t you think you would have bought one?

Yay!

Remove the unique selling points of the game!

So much reason to keep playing then!

piitb.7635:

Spend a week getting exotic gear. Good.

Spend a week getting the new ascended pieces. Bad

That about sums it up.

Let me correct you.

Invest time progressing your character until he/she is the best he/she can be – good.

Spend weeks grinding every few months when they release a higher tier, each time forced into a specific playstyle. Both factors being completely against what the game was advertised as – bad.

When it comes to adding new tiers of gear there are 3 possible options.

1. Don’t do it – game is targeted at people who do not want to re-grind all their gear slots every few months.
2. Do it infrequently – people who dislike gear grinds are put off. People who do only play a few weeks each time a new tier is added then decide there is no longer any point to play until the next tier is added, basically pleasing no one.
3. Do it frequently – people who like the constant grind to improve your characters stats are happy.

They need to decide who they akittengeting the game at, it’s as simple as that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Server-Populations/703192

tigirius.9014:

I completely agree withe the OP, something must be done. First the legendaries were put in, I guess to keep people from complaining that GW2 isn’t gear grind fest 3000 like other games (because that’s fun /sarcasm) It’s okay if they are on par with legendaries as far as stats are concerned but they don’t need to add anymore tiers that’s for sure. AT ALL end of story, end of line. Not because I say so, but because they would be going back on their promise to so many of us by copying the one thing we hated the most from the other titles, the gear treadmill. I absolutely do not ever want to return to that paradigm ever again, thanks. I can’t express the disgust I feel at that system of progression.

I do hope this trend of making armors more powerful stops at what I’m dubbing is Tier2 (legendary) because we really don’t need that game experience in this title.

The other thing I’d like to comment on is that they have been great at shoving out content. So far their track record for a nonsub game has been faster then all the rest insofar as the speed of the content releases post launch. I’m impressed.

Once again, legendaries have no higher stats than exotics.

They are purely cosmetic sidegrades.

Deth.4109:

LowfatEnvelope.5934:

They say the stats will be SLIGHTLY better and everyone is freaking out? What? We haven’t even seen what the stats on this stuff is yet. Also no old content is being made obsolete by this. It sounds like the gear is just a reward so people who enjoy the dungeon can do it more efficiently as it progresses in difficulty, which I think is a good idea. We shall have to wait and see though I suppose.

“Introducing Ascended items, artifacts of great power that can be improved by a special new type of upgrade called Infusions, which can be found in dungeons. Look for more information about Ascended gear soon”! i see nothing here hat says Ascended>Exotic stop spreading mis information, all of this is pitifull.

But the articles retweeted by the official twitter feed do: https://twitter.com/guildwars2

:edit:

The patch will introduce ascended items. Ascended armors are “slightly more powerful than exotics” and can, in some cases, hold slots for infusions. Infusions will allow you to increase your character’s power

Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/12/guild-wars-2s-lost-shores-content-primer/

Speaking of rewards, the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon will introduce the new ‘Ascended’ item type. This type is a bit more powerful than the Exotic quality items currently found in the game.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/6882/Guild-Wars-2-A-Peek-into-the-November-Update.html

Both articles retweeted by the official GW2 twitter account.

Zerah.2450:

I haven’t seen so many people scared about a treadmill since I last saw The Biggest Loser

No ones scared about a treadmill but when you pay for a reclining chair and a few months later it’s replaced with a treadmill there’s plenty of reason to be unhappy.

LeoXearo.3641:

It sounds like people don’t want to play an MMO.

MMOs need to have ways to continually advance your characters, that’s what sets them apart from other online pvp games or single player RPGs with online co-ops.

GW1 was not an MMO, GW2 should not be like GW1.

By what definition?

You believe MMO’s require endless progression & stat increases? Please find me 3 sources which agree with that definition (so you can’t just find one site with an extreme definition).

HTXL.2598:

Then you don’t know what they promised.

Then, again, I request you provide a link if you claim that they have broken their promise.

But if you think that my lack of interest in raids means that I am somehow unable to read any part of the interview / advertising relating to raiding then you are mistaken.

The fact that I came here specifically because it wasn’t required to progress kind of says I looked into it, wouldn’t you say?

HTXL.2598:

Jestunhi.7429:

HTXL.2598:

Jestunhi, surely you jest.

You remember the time first time you ever raided? I do. It was in Rift, a great game btw, despite the opinions here.

Though entertained with GW2, I have yet to feel that same intensity once during my leveling experience.

So by not fulfilling their promise, you actually meant “did not design the game exactly as I personally want it” rather than them making a promise and not keeping it?

I asked you a real question, was hoping you’d answer cordially. Have you, in all honesty, felt the same intensity, at any time, during your leveling experience, as you have when you first raided in any end-game experience.

I have little interest in raids.

If I did, I’d be in a raiding-heavy game.

I bought GW2 because I don’t want that. It lets me progress to the max level and tier of gear by whichever playstyle I choose rather than being forced to repeatedly grind raids to get geared up.

HTXL.2598:

Jestunhi, surely you jest.

You remember the time first time you ever raided? I do. It was in Rift, a great game btw, despite the opinions here.

Though entertained with GW2, I have yet to feel that same intensity once during my leveling experience.

So by not fulfilling their promise, you actually meant “did not design the game exactly as I personally want it” rather than them making a promise and not keeping it?

Nirvash.3018:

why can’t they make it so the gpu does most of the work??

Because then you’d have almost these exact same threads created, but by people with lower spec graphics cards instead of by people with lower spec CPUs.

They need to optimize it, not just shift the processing to another component.

HTXL.2598:

No, what I’m saying, Jestunhi, is that they failed to live up to their promises in the first place.

They are making up for it now.

Can you please link to the promise they made to have a gear grind in GW2?

The one which they failed to keep at launch but are now (potentially) fulfilling?

HTXL.2598:

They made a lot of promises Leiloni, okay? Presidents make promises. Husbands and wives make promises.

Jesus.

What kind of logic is that?

So because someone who has lied it’s now perfectly acceptable for everyone to lie to you?

Jesus…

Khalisto.2615:

ANET has not broken their promise, since the early days of BETA we have had armor/weapon progression in the game.

Don’t you remember leveling up and getting a “white” colored item and then doing a Heart quest and getting a “Green” item? from there you went to Yellow and then orange for exotic. GW2 already had armor/weapon progression guys! Ascended will be the next tier of progression.

What GW2 means when they talk about no traditional armor/weapon progression is that you can obtain the same item stats whether you craft, quest, purchase in the trading post or run dungeons… they will all be equal in power. Even the LEGENDARY are equal in stats as the exotic, just a cooler skin to sport.

Ascended will be the next logical tier in stats but I am sure there will be many ways to acquire this. Personally I hope they stick with Dungeon Hunting.

You seem to be under the impression that a game with progression has a gear treadmill.

You are mistaken.

Multiple tiers of gear does not make a treadmill. Adding new tiers above the existing ones so the people who had finished gearing now need to start gearing again is a treadmill.

You have to keep progressing to get back to where you were, at the top.

Eveningstar.6940:

EgonVenkman.1907:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I feel sorry for Anet. Their initial fanbase turn on them so easily.

The sad part is that these people are turning on them for something that has been in the game since launch.

Did none of you notice the different tiers of gear before this?

Did none of you notice the PvE stat boosters in the Gem Shop?

It’s like none of you have actually played the game you are now complaining about. Tiers of gear power have been here since the first week of beta, nothing is changing, they are just adding the next tier, it is literally no different then to what is already in the game.

Until February, when they announce Mythical gear, then next June with the dark side Diabolical gear, following next October on their annual release with Malevolent gear. They just need a few more tiers, then they will stop. Seriously. They will stop this time.

Trust them. Just ignore their previous marketing attempts. No gear treadmill indeed.

Slippery slope fallacy. And totally irrational. No one has any idea what the Ascended gear is actually all about. You’re just assuming Ascended is a new tier gear, and it’s going to lead to a whole new ladder of tiers, and before you know it the game is dead and we’re playing another WoW clone.

That is a massive cognitive leap considering that we have no information about the upcoming changes.

Would it kill you to relax, be patient, and wait for the blog post?

There are 3 options when it comes to adding higher tiers of gear.

1. Do it all the time to keep the people who only play to get higher stats happy.
2. Do it occasionally. This alienates the people who dislike it and possibly gets the people who do like it to come back each time a new tier is added to farm for a while, and then leave as soon as they have the new gear because there’s no way for them to improve their stats any further.
3. Don’t do it to keep the people who don’t like it happy.

They need to decide who their target audience is and stick to it.