Guild Wars 2

Hi Mail-

Think I ran into you a few days ago in sPvP, while I was running a similar build/traits to the one you have here. Wanted to share what I had going, since it seems the number of signet Mesmers are back down to a miniscule amount as they were prepatch.

My build is:

DOM: CS, BI, PB
CHA: Defense, Dampening, CI
INSP: Mantras, R Illusions, Ill Inspiration

Signets of Ether, Midnight, Inspiration, Humility. Mantra of Distraction.

Weapons: Staff, Sc/Sw

The biggest difference is I don’t play this as tanky, and run Marauder/Pack, with Energy/Air (open to changing air up).

Biggest thing to playing this I’ve found is getting your timings correctly with your phantasms and shattering. Using F1-F2 for condi clear/small heal when you can get another phantasm out is nice bonus. A full F4 shatter plus mantra rescharge is almost like another heal. Overall, really fun to play.

With a signet build, I find a hard time giving up the signet heal. Esp with it now providing the distortion to your party (as traited).

Was always worried it would only work with pistol-5; glad it is universal. I presume you actually have to have your pistol as active weapon? I.e., if you cast Duelist then swapped to Staff and interrupted via Chaos Storm, would the cooldown decrease happen?

Josh Davis.6015:

The release has been out for 4 hours. It’s a little early to tell.

Maim the Disillusioned.

For my money, its Maim and the Blind on Shatter trait. (and frankly I prefer the Stability/Boons on Shatter too, but that obviously isn’t PU-crutch).

serenke.4806:

Ross Biddle.2367:

serenke.4806:

StickerHappy.8052:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

No matter what anyone else says, no matter what positive spin people try to put on it, Thieves are getting even stronger and we will still have no way to deal with them. Short of receiving active stealth-canceling abilities, Mesmer is and will remain a “PvP-centric” profession that can’t PvP because we are effectively deleted from the game by another profession.

FYI, Thieves only hard counter Zerker Mesmers. NOT ALL.

And every non-zerker mesmer is a joke. I’ve had a nice 1v1 with some yesterday (several different mesmers in different matches) where i could just spam /shrug while they were trying to MtD me or danced around producing clones that did put “copious amounts of conditions” on me that i could cleanse away. Each time i just capped the point while they were pulling off their awesome combos…. Pretty impressive.

They could have killed a thief though. I’ll give them that.

Always depends on the matchup. You build to counter conditions, of course a condition build is going to be countered by you. This shouldnt need stating -_-u

Indeed, but what’s the point of having a thief-killer mesmer who cannot do anything but kill thieves? This shouldn’t need stating either.

And for Pyro, no i am not posturing or exaggerating, but a zerk mesmer (shatter or interrupt) would have been dangerous where these were funny at best.

MTD does fairly well vs most Mesmer specs, as most don’t take copious amounts of condi cleanse. 3x Mantra Mesmers would be difficult for any condition class.

Solid watch, really enjoyed it. Would have to disagree with you on the Signets/Domination for Condi Shatter, however. As you alluded to, you can’t take two Master level traits, so going into the Domination line means you 1) don’t get the best shatter trait for MTD there, Shattered Concentration. The Adept and GM traits are a bit underwhelming for MTD. The minor traits in domination are weak for MTD as well.

You end up trading out being able to go into Chaos, which offers you:
Metaphysical Rejuv & Illusionary Membrane— solid sustain
Chaotic Persistence— looks strong for MTD/condi builds
Master of Manipulation- not great but OK
Chaotic Dampening- looks incredible
Bountiful Disillusionment- looks pretty strong after the buff for MTD with very high Stability uptime

I absolutely love Signets, and use them exclusively with my main builds (26006 MTD and 26600 Celestial Interrupt), but can’t see MTD/Signets working out as well as Chaos with traditional utilities, as much as I wish it would.

Signet Interrupt? That, on the other hand, I think is going to work very nicely in a 66600 build with the changes.

Menaka.5092:

• Bountiful Disillusionment. It’s bad. My take on this: every time a clone dies or is shattered, you and your party gain a random boon. This would provide ample access to a variety of boons and would be in line with the randomness of the other traits in the same tier.

They also added 5s of Stability to each shatter. This trait is very strong if that holds.

Would be easier (and less call for nerfs later) to just give the 25% run speed buff like a few other signets have.

stamps.4089:

People in this thread not being completely clear:

Mind Wrack is GM trait in domination and was buffed.

Master of Fragmentation combines the old traits in the Illusions line that buffed all the individual shatters. That is, higher crit chance for MW, an additional stack of confusion for CoF (instead of retal), AoE Diversion, and reflection on Distortion.

So you can go into Domination as usual for MW trait and don’t need to go into Illusions unless you want the additional shatter buffs.

The additional stack of confusion is from the minor trait. We don’t know what MoF does for F2 yet.

Ansau.7326:

PD: How about a bunker MtD shatter Dueling/Inspiration/Illusions with massive condi cleansing, good self-healing while spreading tons of condis?

Should be interesting and will surely be tested. But IMHO the best bunker abilities we have are all in the Chaos tree. Dampening, Stability, and -damage per clone; in addition to the strong minor traits… I think they will outweigh the healing and condi cleanse -- which will likely still end up being pretty strong in groups.

Would be great if we could go Choas/Insp/Illu, but that silly DE…

dimyzuka.7051:

alanis.6094:

dimyzuka.7051:

Actually as is stands MTD builds will be a ton weaker, as they made all the shatter buffs a GM trait that competes with maim. So if we choose MTD we lose confusion on ALL shatters, Might on all shatters, AOE daze, reflect on distortion, and x2 confusion on CoF.(from what I understand)

This basically kills condition shatter, as their making us choose between being Shatter or MTD, which makes no sense at all.

You are incorrect. Please refer to this screenshot, and notice the minor traits that still exist: http://i.imgur.com/h7a0WHQ.jpg

Master of Fragmentation did not take the confusion and might buffs; it took Precise Wrack (F1), Confusing Cry (F2), Imbued Diversion (F3), and Masterful Reflection (F4).

Oh, ok. So now Main builds will lose %33 confusion duration, and cannot get any of the shatter improvements that are all baked into Master of fragmentation. That is even worse. %33 confusion duration should stay as a adept trait atleast.

Its not remotely worse. Confusion duration is nice, but an extra stack of confusion/might per shatter clone is much, much better. The stuff in master of Fragmentation is unlikely to have much interest for condition (or many other) specs.

I think there are going to be a lot of people that try the DE/PU/Maim setup with Sc/Torch. For my money, give me the Pistol + Staff + Dampening + the new Bountiful Disillusionment. All that Stability…

note: this is for PvP

dimyzuka.7051:

Actually as is stands MTD builds will be a ton weaker, as they made all the shatter buffs a GM trait that competes with maim. So if we choose MTD we lose confusion on ALL shatters, Might on all shatters, AOE daze, reflect on distortion, and x2 confusion on CoF.(from what I understand)

This basically kills condition shatter, as their making us choose between being Shatter or MTD, which makes no sense at all.

You are incorrect. Please refer to this screenshot, and notice the minor traits that still exist: http://i.imgur.com/h7a0WHQ.jpg

Master of Fragmentation did not take the confusion and might buffs; it took Precise Wrack (F1), Confusing Cry (F2), Imbued Diversion (F3), and Masterful Reflection (F4).

edit: what we do, however, lose is the +duration on confusion.

edit2: additionally, it should be interesting to see how Blinding Befuddlement and the new Blind on Shatter traits synergize. If each shattered clone counts as an additional source of blind, and we get 6-8 extra confusion per shatter, then perhaps Maim isn’t as needed…

Would just be easier and cause much less headaches to just have 25% run speed be a passive in addition to the random boons.

While I still don’t love where it ended up, I think a build similar to the Celestial Signet build I was running previously (26600) could be viable here with these changes.

Sc/P + Staff
Dom: CS, Blurred Inscriptions, Power Block
Duel: Duelist, Blinding Dissipation, DE (really wish it and Mistrust didn’t block each other)
Chaos: Defense, Dampening, CI

SoE, Daze mantra, SoM, SoD

phokus.8934:

A few things of note:
1. Chaos Armor now gives guaranteed protection upon activation and another boon added

I believe that is only with the trait.

RIP. Can’t think of a worse place for the new signet trait.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Did some take screen shut of the traits?
This will really help out.

Being added slowly here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

I missed the beginning…what was done with Signets? Is the Distortion on Signet still a trait?

All signet traits are merged.

Into which traitline? Hopefully just not Domination…

Um… I think Dom? Don’t remember, but 80% sure it’s Domination.

Would be a shame, and would pretty much break Signet Conditions for me.

How so? You get 3 full trait lines now, and they’re not connected to stats anymore. Just to clarify, if that was your concern.

Can’t give up Dueling (DE), Chaos (Staff + new Bountiful), or Illusions (Maim). I didn’t catch the Domination line, but I severely doubt it has anything worthwhile for conditions.

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

I missed the beginning…what was done with Signets? Is the Distortion on Signet still a trait?

All signet traits are merged.

Into which traitline? Hopefully just not Domination…

Um… I think Dom? Don’t remember, but 80% sure it’s Domination.

Would be a shame, and would pretty much break Signet Conditions for me.

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

I missed the beginning…what was done with Signets? Is the Distortion on Signet still a trait?

All signet traits are merged.

Condi Cleanse
Distortion
CD reduction

All in one.

Reflect? /15char

Dondagora.9645:

alanis.6094:

I missed the beginning…what was done with Signets? Is the Distortion on Signet still a trait?

All signet traits are merged.

Into which traitline? Hopefully just not Domination…

I missed the beginning…what was done with Signets? Is the Distortion on Signet still a trait?

I didn’t notice it at first, but was the Master of Shatter (which if I recall adds the confusion and might shatter traits into one) now on the same tier as Maim?

Dondagora.9645:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Plenty fair. Its actually an improvement I think since that leaves major traits to not have to compete. And manipulation range baseline…

1200r blinks!? My heart.

Yup.

Also good news for your Boonsharing: Signet of Inspiration on Phantasm summon, I think I heard.

I saw that, but I think it still holds the 45 second CD.

Sebrent.3625:

IP baseline
Elasticity baseline
Manipulation range baseline
Toughness channeling mantras baseline
+15% Phantasm damage baseline

OMG I love it.

Thanks, I missed the Elasticity part.

Maim + IP + PU. OK…..

I had to step away and missed beginning of this trait line…but did they remove/get rid of Illusionary Elasticity?

alanis.6094:

Holy menders purity buff…

For those not watching, they basically made Menders Purity an aoe cleanse. Oh, and the merged Restorative Mantra’s into it.

Holy menders purity buff…

nice buff to bountiful dissilusionment (5s stability per shatter added)

alternatively, they’ll just make DE a grandmaster…

Fay.2357:

alanis.6094:

Fay.2357:

I’ll give you a quick hint though: MtD will lose rapidly in anything worse than a 1v1. PU can maintain a 1v3.

But what is the virtue of being able to survive a theoretical 1v3 as PU?

-You obviously won’t be able to hold or take a point.

-You aren’t going to be able to kill any of them.

-In theory, you are taking 3 of them from somewhere else. But 1) they are getting points wherever you are; and more importantly 2) if 3 enemies actually waste time trying to kill you by yourself, then it might be the case that you could win 1v2/3 as MTD vs their skill level.

The point is that you’re fighting a 1v3. This means that the rest of your team is fighting 4v2. Yes, they’ll have the point you’re fighting around. No, you’re not going to kill them. However, the remaining 4 members of your team (assuming at least minimal competence) will be able to easily secure and maintain a 2 cap. Just a quick note…a 2 cap will win you the game pretty quickly. Best part is that after they secure that, they could even come and help you at the 1v3, and potentially turn that into a 3 cap.

The likelihood of actually being able to kill people in a 1v2 or 1v3 as MtD is incredibly small, even against poor players. With more players, you have more condition removal, more targets that you need to share damage against. It’s just not feasible unless the players are so bad that you’d be able to steamroll them with PU conditions anyway. The key about maintaining that 1v3 as PU is that you’re not trying to kill them. You’re simply playing an extended game of hide and seek; dancing around and near the point, hopping in and out of stealth, blinking back and forth. If you directly engage 3 people, you die. If you play hard-to-get…you can live if you’re good enough.

Regardless, the strategy isn’t something that I’m just postulating, it works quite fine. I used it for quite a while when I PvPed, and enjoyed very significant success with it.

Per the “rest of your team is 4v2” argument, I addressed that in the final part of my post. I.e., if the other team is spending time trying to 3v1 you, nobody’s spec on either side in that match really matters as your team was going to win regardless.

As an aside, I can win 1v2 as signet & signet MTD vs several different class combos (primarily if one of them isn’t an ele and both enemies aren’t glass).

Fay.2357:

I’ll give you a quick hint though: MtD will lose rapidly in anything worse than a 1v1. PU can maintain a 1v3.

But what is the virtue of being able to survive a theoretical 1v3 as PU?

-You obviously won’t be able to hold or take a point.

-You aren’t going to be able to kill any of them.

-In theory, you are taking 3 of them from somewhere else. But 1) they are getting points wherever you are; and more importantly 2) if 3 enemies actually waste time trying to kill you by yourself, then it might be the case that you could win 1v2/3 as MTD vs their skill level.

phokus.8934:

alanis.6094:

phokus.8934:

When discussing build viability in pvp, it really only matters on top tier and tournament games because that is where people know where their dodge button is.

I think you believe that their are more people at the top tier/tournament games then they actually exist. Top tier is irrelevant for most.

No, I don’t. As I stated and what you left out as part of my response is that any build in bottom tier play is viable due to obvious reasons. When people start making claims that MtD is surpassing power shatter, that’s just blatantly false. MtD can have success as shown by the OP but even Phantasm builds and PU can have a lot of success against those same players.

Is your claim is that everyone that isn’t in the top tier/tournaments is therefore bottom tier (without any middle tier)? I don’t think anyone would disagree that when you play against kids that don’t know where the dodge button is located that any build can work; however, I (and I bet others) would argue that there is a huge amount of players that 1) aren’t tourney/top tier, and 2) still pretty good at this game. MTD is effective in this group.

Additionally on your other point… very few people are arguing that MTD is surpassing power shatter in tourney/top tier play.

phokus.8934:

When discussing build viability in pvp, it really only matters on top tier and tournament games because that is where people know where their dodge button is.

I think you believe that their are more people at the top tier/tournament games then they actually exist. Top tier is irrelevant for most.

Trigr.6481:

2-6-4-2-0 – My standard build, decent condi application with good condi clear – Lyssa
4-6-6-0-0 – Chaotic interruption – For all you risk takers
4-6-4-0-0 – Condition heavy with crippling
2-6-4-0-2 – Reflect heavy from distortion on signet, good for power rangers, necros, etc

However in the past week or two I actually made a variant of my build that I dare say performs better than my standard build. I shall have to make a video for you guys sometime this week explaining it

Countless

Interesting to see if you have tested a 2/6/2/0/4 build with reflect and elasticity. I’m primarily running that now, with iDisenchanter. (though I know you are much more a fan or Portal that I typically am)

Do address Johnny’s points:

1v1/1vX: I’ve played a fair bit of shatter Mesmer, and a LOT of Interrupt Mesmer, and a fair amount of MTD prior to testing and currently fairly extensively playing various Signet builds. I have found that I overall do much better in small scale situations with a Signet build than with IP Shatter/Interrupt builds. In the matchups where I held an advantage, I could certainly blow someone up faster with those zerker builds, but I would also encounter matchups that were unfavorable. The current only matchup that I view as unfavorable for myself is ironically Vs. Mesmer. However, I was never good vs Mesmers in any build— I play on a laptop and it just takes so much longer for Mesmer/Thieves to come out of stealth and register on my screen than it does when I’m watching video’s.

RE: peel capacity. I will just point out, that it seems kind of disingenuous to be critiquing this aspect of the build, when I am presuming (correct me if I’m wrong) that you haven’t actually tested it. As I mentioned above the builds I’ve played, I have found that signet does magnificent versus focus; especially if you are using Sword (which I typically do not). Everytime I mess around with a different build right now (IP, CI, MTD), I miss traited SoM a lot more than I ever miss decoy or blink.

Re: Distortion, Elasticity, and Menders. There are a lot of different variations, and my current one does just what you suggested. Though my celestial version can still stack might up well and do solid damage.

Kemuri.1249:

first i wanted to thank you so much for the extensive knowledge and testing you guys have been doing.

ive been running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7ansIShaWhGOoB3aIx1YM1Jo8rrIVAluiNmG-TJRHwAp3fIwFBIZZAAPBAA

this build has allowed me to really step it up in rank game with 1v1 and 1v2s a lot better then your regular shatter berzerk build.

im over 50 games(going 33/17) with this 1 build and ive gotta say, it’s only weakness for me are very well played mesmers and 2v1 power spikes.

keep up the good work!

See post by me dated March 21st, 15:19 — it is a great build, great minds think alike

I suck vs Mesmers too; not sure if that is the build or not because my old laptop does a terrible job of loading Mes/Thieves, seems like an extra second before they are revealed.

Sebrent.3625:

Have you, (or anyone else) tried the Signet build with [Rune of Defense]?

I’m curious as I can see it being a way to double-dip on the Signets a bit more given that now each Signet would give you:

• 1s Distortion
• 8s Aegis

The -15% condition duration isn’t bad either.

Rune of the Defender you mean? I don’t believe that is available in PvP. And its not Traveler’s so I don’t see it being worth it for WvW, but YMMV.

MailMail.6534:

What are your opinions on “classic” 2/6/6/0/0 (or 2/6/4/2/0) varieties vs the use of masterful reflection?

Masterful Reflection just happens to be a cool toy on the way to Illusionary Elasticity. As far as a comparison of the two builds, I don’t really consider running any condition based builds without IE.

Dragothien.4210:

I also have to say I haven’t tried it much, but I really perfer running with rabid to cele on this build – so far. I don’t feel like the cele healing power is realling making all that much a difference with the signet, and I feel like I bring targets down faster using these weapons (staff/scepter/pistol) with straight high condi dmg than i do with the added power/crit. Maybe if I were using sword, but I’m not really interested in using sword with this – have used it for so many other builds already.

Yah, the healing power really doesn’t scale well on SoE. However, with 6 in Chaos and chaos armor uptime, you will approach full uptime on Regeneration, which does scale well. The added 4K HP does also help since condi removal is still not ideal in this build.

I also really dislike the Sword, and use the same weapon sets as you. Scepter actually scales pretty well with power. But anyway, I think either can work its just personal preference; the only reason I typically go for Cele/BI is the added survivability and it always frustrated me a little to use a 2-3second stun where the interrupt proc of CI kinda just goes to waste.

Glad you are enjoying it!

Since the little condi damage buff a few days ago, I’ve decided to try swapping around things.

I’ve swapped to rabid, and wanted to go back to Illusionary Elasticity to try to take advantage of the extra duration on burning. Pretty happy with the results so far, running: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7ansIShaWhGOoB3aIx1YM1Jo8rrIVAluiNmG-TJRHwAp3fIwFBIZZAAPBAA

Minor notes:

1. Typically have been enjoying (for the first time ever) iDisenchanter. If I happen to go against a team with barely any boons, I swap to mantra cleanse instead. SoE resetting the cooldown on iDisenchanter makes it available quite often.

2. Masterful Reflection is just fun. Really wish I could get that on my celestial version.

3. Still with Traveler Runes; can’t do without them. The boon/condi duration helps too.

Add Signets, sign me up!

Losing 4 into Dueling is so very hard to drop for a hybrid build. Outside of the obvious DE, you lose vigor and illusion bleeds on crit. I think you have to go 4 there, and then choose where to put the other 4.

Cool video, but one thing I noticed was A LOT of unnecessary dodging happening.

Fay.2357:

Flufferz.8907:

well then I have learned something – thanks Fay

Also fun fact, distortion will actually strip boons with shattered concentration. There’s a very small aoe range around the clone (or yourself with IP) that somehow does a hit-check and will remove boons if something is in range.

Distortion also procs MtD.

Selya.5039:

The vast majority of players indeed do not play in these tournaments; for most people, pvp comprises just hotjoins, daily farm servers and at most, unranked queue. In fact, I wouldn’t recommend players who are new to mesmer pvp to start learning with meta shatter: it is too unforgiving. Something like a PU power build would be a much more welcoming introduction to the class.

The people who tend to participate in these amateur tournaments are the phoenix/dragon ranked players that you meet in ranked queue (that is, those that actually have a solid knowledge of rotations and their class, and didn’t turret engi their way to legendary champion). Are they the top 5%? Perhaps – the current pool of regular pvp players is so small that you actually recognize many of them by name if you play for a while, so these players can easily be in the top 5%. However, the point still stands: semi-competitive players who simply want to participate in amateur tournaments or compete in the upper reaches of ranked queue are pigeonholed into shatter, a build that is not only eaten alive by thieves, but is also inferior to the thief as a “roamer” in almost every way.

That said, now that I know that you are condi shatter alanis, I will be sure to avoid you if I run into you on my engineer/ take mantra of resolve if I’m on my mesmer >.>

Thanks again for the insight!

As for myself, you will most often find me playing a signet build similar to one run by Countless (the one I use is a celestial build focused more on lockdown than clone death). I do like to dabble in MtD a bit when things get stale, and also really like the standard CI lockdown (which frankly I would expect to actually be viable in these tourney’s, but I digress).

Fair points Seyla, and something I will have to consider, as I don’t participate in these additional tournaments you mention. Perhaps “the top 5%” was too strict; or perhaps teams in these tournaments actually do comprise the top 5%? My guess would be that the vast majority of players aren’t playing these tourney’s, but I could be mistaken. Thanks for the insight.