Guild Wars 2

WvW zerk core roam

So, I’ve found this to be pretty fun. The idea is to proc a lot of might, dodge a lot, and set-up stuns for easy kills. Don’t be afraid to auto attack with the hammer it’s hilarious watching people dodge auto attacks anticipating the stun chain. I highly suggest to not use the stun chain unless you see a perfect opportunity mid-late fight. Hammer 2 is amazing I usually crit 7-8k + weakness makes it a great survive move against other melees. Use Arc slice to keep up adrenal health, and supplement the times you can’t with endure pain and liberal dodging. Reckless dodge does around 2-3k per crit and hit so treat it like an unblock-able auto attack. Use earthshaker if you’re confident you can hit or as a gap closer which is how I use it. I rarely hit with it but it scares people out of a dodge. Adrenal gain should be non-issues with rage sig, dodging, and such.

I have a lot of condi clear because that’s what I see a lot of on my Borderlands, but feel free to tinker with endure pain and stamina sig. Typically Ill swap endure for something cheeky like bolas or bull charge even ‘for great justice’ because you get that free 50% endurance fill guage. Pop SoR for endurance and that final push for a kill. For the most part stuns aren’t really a big deal for me. I tend to dodge most of the higher telegraphed stuns. The only class I typically have issues with and this is pretty much always been the case at least with me is a blind spam thief. Not much I can do except hope they screw up rotation. I’ve had little trouble with any condi geared class and most power classes. The biggest thing you should notice about this build is being able to stay upwards 75% + health because you should be evading. This is the best damage mitigation in this build.
Endure pain is panic button and adrenal health and SoH are for that one ‘dang i missed a dodge’.

The biggest counter I’ve seen is just not being able to proc MiR. That makes it a lot harder to survive which is why thieves are usually difficult to deal with since I can’t hit them. I accept this as a major flaw and choose my battles accordingly.

The trait lines are pre-HoT core War meta so nothing new here.

The armor/trinkets weps are mix of power/crit chance. Swap ’em out how you please. Sigils and such try to proc MiR as much as possible.

Overall, the play style is slower, calculated attack and evade, and fun to watch their face when you condi clear everything multiple times. You should be using dodges like you’re a thief with this build.

Hope you get a thrill or two with this open for suggestions, and happy hunting.

ANet will never make FH baseline. No reason to. I don’t see what people would run if it was baseline anyway. Exactly what they have now except with a free trait slot to pick something else. It isn’t FH that’s limiting builds for warriors it’s the meta. If you want to blame something blame meta not FH. Baselining FH doesn’t solve the problem of build variety.

If the argument is to change FH because of meta then I think Burr is going in a better direction.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’ve changed my position on this.

Rather than making it baseline, it would probably make more sense to just remove the trait entirely, then adjust weapon CDs to compensate. Yes, we will lose out on the ease of comboing skills together – but I’m tired of the whole class being balanced around this single perk. Shorter weapon CDs can still be useful and will buff us as a whole. The traitline will still be great for the speed boost, while buffing builds that focus more on in combat mobility by using Bull’s Charge and weapons like sword, hammer, and greatsword.

Giving us the trait baseline will just lead to every other class saying “well I want x baseline then.” Mes getting that GM baseline was mostly because their class mechanic wasn’t useble without clones when you didn’t have it equipped. Let’s face it, all it did in the end was let them blow their Distortion on a 1 second duration shatter. While potentially useful – Chrono made this pointless because they’re constantly spamming clones anyways.

Warriors getting Fast hands baseline would just give us an ability no other class in the game has. Slightly decreasing CDs would just be to bring them in line with other classes that don’t have Fast hands. The decrease would probably be stupid low in some cases, but it’s still a universal buff that doesn’t screw us down the road when it comes to design.

ugrakarma.9416:

jadaniel.4910:

I’m afraid I can’t really speak to that as well as I can with WvW (roam) and what not. Warriors were better with condi in raids and fractals anyway right? At least that was my impression looking at the meta before the last patch.

I hope their idea is to spread the balance throughout all cores not just warrior. So that meta pretty much shifts to ok run whatever class, but this is the (elite) spec you need to run for it.

Though that just comes down to roles in raids and end content (assuming it’s difficult and requires co-op). These roles are pretty much defined by the users a part and the rest by design. In the end most of the metas run variations of the trinity anyway. Tank/Support(heal)/DPS. Which is ironic since ANet’s dream in the beginning. ‘Rid the world from the tyranny trinity!’ unfortunately they’ve realized this is harder than just ‘everyone fight for yourself’, and then continuously adds content that requires cooperation that more or less requires more than everyone heal yourself and do mediocre damage. So at least in the PvE realm we’re seeing them kind of roll back into the trinity since the content is basically designed for it. Annnnd this is causing issues everywhere else. lol

Without killing the meta mentality, its a dream, any “balance” is jut killing old meta for new ones, in other words: still 0 diversity. With the bonus of annoying the players.

We end up with thousands of options that only serve in open world.

People right here, are saying that now has “more options”, but try a raid with power warrior, will be ironized / rage by condi range, condition warriors, elementals, practically everything. Ppl will mock and jocke also Power warriors on WvW/Pve too.

The last point you made is part of what I’m saying. I’m just pointing out that their basic design flaw is trying to fight a round peg (generalized builds) into a round peg (WvW/PvP) and a square one (PvE) at the same time. Note that content isn’t exclusive to one or the other, but my point is they can’t have their cake and eat it too. Either you have mechanics specific to each different content area or you stick to one and let the other suffer until it settles down.

To sum it up what’s balanced in a raid is not in other areas. What’s balanced in PvP/WvW is not balanced in PvE. They’re going to have a hell of a time trying to find it too. The result is NaCl.

nicknamenick.2437:

jadaniel.4910:

I believe their goal was pretty well stated a few times by other people in the warrior community. They’re moving to make core as viable as elite specs rather than elite specs as a pay to win mechanic. Which seems to have been the impression most players are making towards the developers.

I’m actually noticing I have other options as a vanilla warrior in WvW. In-fact anecdotally I’ve had much better luck going back to ol’ faithful disc, str, def. Dodge for days. Might for days. Ticks of health for days. Condi meta is easily countered. Switch a couple of traits and you’re good to go. Swap some weps around depending on range/melee opponent.

I’m also excited to say that I’ve found better options in PvE with zerker variations for condi/feroc mix. I believe the spellbreaker will even add more options.

Overall I’m happy to say I’m not bored with warrior anymore nor bound to elite spec. Thank you ANet for bringing me out of my warrior safe place and exploring what used to be the glory of core warrior. No sarcasm intended.

Core warrior is better now for sure. and i do like it.

But why nerf power PS warrior more so that its completely dead? We used to have a power and condi builds for raids and fractal. Now its just condi.

I’m afraid I can’t really speak to that as well as I can with WvW (roam) and what not. Warriors were better with condi in raids and fractals anyway right? At least that was my impression looking at the meta before the last patch.

I hope their idea is to spread the balance throughout all cores not just warrior. So that meta pretty much shifts to ok run whatever class, but this is the (elite) spec you need to run for it.

Though that just comes down to roles in raids and end content (assuming it’s difficult and requires co-op). These roles are pretty much defined by the users a part and the rest by design. In the end most of the metas run variations of the trinity anyway. Tank/Support(heal)/DPS. Which is ironic since ANet’s dream in the beginning. ‘Rid the world from the tyranny trinity!’ unfortunately they’ve realized this is harder than just ‘everyone fight for yourself’, and then continuously adds content that requires cooperation that more or less requires more than everyone heal yourself and do mediocre damage. So at least in the PvE realm we’re seeing them kind of roll back into the trinity since the content is basically designed for it. Annnnd this is causing issues everywhere else. lol

I believe their goal was pretty well stated a few times by other people in the warrior community. They’re moving to make core as viable as elite specs rather than elite specs as a pay to win mechanic. Which seems to have been the impression most players are making towards the developers.

I’m actually noticing I have other options as a vanilla warrior in WvW. In-fact anecdotally I’ve had much better luck going back to ol’ faithful disc, str, def. Dodge for days. Might for days. Ticks of health for days. Condi meta is easily countered. Switch a couple of traits and you’re good to go. Swap some weps around depending on range/melee opponent.

I’m also excited to say that I’ve found better options in PvE with zerker variations for condi/feroc mix. I believe the spellbreaker will even add more options.

Overall I’m happy to say I’m not bored with warrior anymore nor bound to elite spec. Thank you ANet for bringing me out of my warrior safe place and exploring what used to be the glory of core warrior. No sarcasm intended.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Hitch.7295:

So what should I do?
Go outside for awhile?

This is dangerous, and should not be attempted until you’ve consulted with your primary care physician.

I recommend playing something on your console until this issue has been resolved.

A what?

Nex.6875:

I don’t know why that much trouble. Is easy as rollback before the patch.

That’s kind of like saying after a building was built and finding out that all the light bulbs were the wrong wattage that you tear it down and start all over again.

TheHeretic.3529:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Zetsumei.4975:

Dusty Moon.4382:

TheHeretic.3529:

Conditions don’t need nerfing.

Ability to apply daze so frequently and stealth are what needs to be changed.

You mean Confusion? THAT IS A CONDITION……..

You do know what daze is right?

Yes but it usually comes with other condi’s like confusion and or torment and those DO more damage than daze.

Daze doesn’t do damage. It’s an interupt, and mesmers get access to WAY too many Dazes.

Yea, stab and dodging requires too much work.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Every small group these days is just made of condition mesmers, necros, and thieves. It is getting really stupid, as if the last 2 years of condition roaming meta wasn’t stupid enough.

Seems like a player comp problem to me. Condition has been tweeked since then beginning of the game. There was a point when condi was worse to play than power. Now there’s a couple of meta builds again, the condi staff/ s/t mesmer is not new to the game neither is trapper thief nor is the terror-mancer. The condition changes from (last year(s) april 19th or 9th i think?) made condi viable again. Nerfing condi won’t balance anything. I doubt perplex runes will ever go away, but maybe nerfed (didn’t they nerf it once already?).

Perplexity runes have been around forever. Perplexity can be dumb runes, but I typically don’t have problems in the group(s) I run with. PvP seems pretty kitten ok with the condi changes. If anything I’d say prepare with better comp geared towards whatever meta people are playing in a wvw map and don’t be surprised if you get killed by some other meta. I.E I go condi cleanse and I get steamrolled by a power thief.

Ahh, the battle of semantics, hurt feelings, and I’m right here’s why you’re wrong. Haven’t seen a thread like this in all but a week now. Mmm.

As long as you aren’t going against their TOS you pretty much can do whatever you want and there’s nothing anyone legitimately can say about it. Let me eat my cake with a hammer and you can drink your soup with a 2×4.

Relevant to forcing compliance from other people. (making them do what you want…kind of)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_

This seems to be a subjective post to me. When I think warrior I think GW1 warrior. Stances, pretty and massive weapons, burst, enough sustain to kill something. GW2 has gotten closer since vanilla warrior before HoT. In my opinion warrior has for the most part been within the warrior theme spectrum.

An underlying question I’ve seen come up for all classes since any skill/patch/profession update is defining those lines of where one class ends and another begins. Impossible to do imo. If I was artistic/creative enough I’d show you a really neat spectrum graph that shows where every class sits in relation to others.

Not a fan of the changes you suggested, but my opinion.

-Posted this response in a recent WvW build thread . Didn’t seem appropriate to link that post in this post so I just copy-pasted my response here. I think I did a good job explaining it the first time. The idea behind this is abusing headbutt/surging/RR trait.
_____________
Resilient Zerker Pretty kitten fun. What I roam with. Toughness is pretty kitten now anyway, but the heals is nice. Might be better with marauder, but I don’t feel like switching. The synergy with the stun breaks, self-stuns, and RR make this build so appealing to me and with the flavor of nike warrior to go with it. Surging works whether you connect on headbutt or not so its a nice counter for range before engaging. If you want you could switch DoA for BR and Roar for Eternal Champion. Any of those work well with this. Also, if you find you’re against condi switch endure pain with the endurance sig. The condi clear is real. o7 Have fun fellow warriors.

Saleerian.2973:

Rousing Resilience is the thing why Head Butt is the most useful elite for a warr atm..

This every day^ RR can be spammed hard with this kitten and the amount of CC in other metas. lol Headbutt is good where it’s at don’t touch it.

Resilient Zerker Pretty kitten fun. What I roam with. Toughness is pretty kitten now anyway, but the heals is nice. Might be better with marauder, but I don’t feel like switching. The synergy with the stun breaks, self-stuns, and RR make this build so appealing to me and with the flavor of nike warrior to go with it. Surging works whether you connect on headbutt or not so its a nice counter or range before engaging. If you want you could switch DoA for BR and Roar for Eternal Champion. Any of those work well with this. Also, if you find you’re against condi switch endure pain with the endurance sig. The condi clear is real. o7 Have fun fellow warriors.

Not sure where to put this little post, but I’d like to point out a frustration on the moot collection. I’ve been sitting in Timberlands, with several other people, for quite a while hoping to get two consecutive failures to get the Giant Shark Meta event in order to get a piece of the collection. A couple of issues with this. The first being you have to fail this event. I’m not mad people have such a passion to save the quaggans, but the block here is people. It’s one thing to be able to get a few people to kill a champ for a collection piece but keeping an entire map of people from completing TWO events is a bit annoying. I don’t blame the completors it just seems kittenty to require two consecutive failed events. And the second it’s in a low population map which makes it difficult to spawn a new server or get in a new server with the shark. idk This whole en-devour to HOPE some soulless being doesn’t save the quaggan is a bit of a troll on Anet’s part. /endrant

Romgaard.1965:

warriors as class didnt get some love…the Elite spec did.
Yes, I know..some will say " you can never be happy can you?"
Well….yes and no..im glad that they buffed our Elites, but it is more and more " you have to spec into the elites to be able to compete in PvP

I’ve noticed that as well. It seems to be a lot of things for me at leas that contribute to this. Granted one or two elites, daredevil/druids, I’ve had a difficult time having close battles with other elite spces, repaer, chrono, dragonhunter. I don’t mean that I should be winning by a landslide I mean I have not had the chance to even have a close 20% health fight. I pride myself on being pretty versatile with builds and I’m all about the build wars, but with the elite I haven’t had much luck. In my experience it’s the lack of damage mitigation synergy outside disc/defends/strength metas. With the changes they’ve made it seems the mitigations warrior/berserker has will be kept with those trait lines. It seems like ANet is def pushing for hybrid, and in pvp it’s more prevelant vs wvw and pve. Also, weird how the elites weren’t supposed to be superior to the actual base profession via dps and viability etc. Will see what happens.

So, Fast Hands not baseline <not surprised>. Pigs will have robot wings before that happens. BUT good news my fellow berserkers there has been some changes. Take a peak! Thoughts?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-November-4-2014-1

Mine:
At least we aren’t being totally ignored! Some better synergy with damage output maybe a reason to not run condi damage purely. Maybe a hybrid? kek

I’ve tested this a few times in the past half hour. For me at least if I try to connect to a WvW borderlands after today’s update the game remains stuck in the loading screen until I either quit or eventually lose connection. Afterwards I can log into character selection screen and then it loads for a few minutes and states I’ve lost connection. After about another 10-15 minutes I’m able to log in. If I try to connect to a WvW borderland the scenario repeats.

I don’t know. I was raving about the zerker in the betas. I’m kind of on the fence about them now…I jumped at the more obvious condition builds bleed/burn confusion/power. These are super fun super novel. In PvE I’ve never felt more alive! The condis are real the damage is nice the sustain pfft it’s pve I have other players for that… For me the novelty of it wore off after about 3rd day. Typical for me. I can’t focus on one thing more than an hour. ANet’s problem? Nah. What I was expecting was to be able to tinker more with the zerker spec with current warrior meta, and I either ended up with some rainbow armor looking spec, throwback from gw1, or just didn’t perform as I hoped. I don’t think warrior outside old meta is for me anymore. Bruiser berserker is a long lost hope for me. I love warrior always will, but I just rolled my rev last night and gave her my warrior’s hand-me-downs…couldn’t be more satisfied with the change.

Something like this. Depends on situation and how I feel like fighting.

Atticus.7194:

StickerHappy.8052:

This game has too much blinds handed out easily

And teleports and stealths.

And condition. Really why are thieves and mesmers even playable outside PvE?

Practice! I use a GS/ M/S build myself regularly. I run a mix of knights and sentinel armor with pure zerker trinkets. I run typical stre/def/disc traits with heal sig, balanced, endure, and zerker stance with rampage. This is my ‘bruiser’ build. If you’re pvp i use marauder with strength or crusader with yak depending on how i feel.

Against a thief it depends. A general skrimish play for me – If it’s a D/D or D/P thief keep moving like you said. Try to run in circles quickly harder for backstab. If he stealthed then probably going to be within range of a sword swing. So use that to figure out where he is. I usually start in M/S when I fight. Shield stance is too good of a counter to burst. Especially if a thief steals in. Pop stun break and shield. He’ll probably blind powder wait a minute and stab then use counter blow in anticipation…then pommel then shield bash anticipate a stun break switch to gs and chase. auto attack some maybe pop one of your stance incase he counters. Switch back to mace WITHOUT using your burst…bait out some stun breaks. Use pommel again, use shield bash…no more stun breaks? Time to finish him! Skull crack → 1HB →Whirlwind = win.

That’s a best case scenario, but you get the idea. Necros is tricky if it’s a power necro use the reflect trait and watch him kill himself. Use GS as a gap closer. If you find yourself chasing too much then may need another gap closer or different build.

Other notes: Don’t find condi builds unless you’re fully confident you’ll win. Condi + Kite against a warrior is doomed from the start in most cases. Know your weakness. Don’t panic if you do you may miss some mitigation skills like stuns, shields, whirlwind is great for evasion which can coast you a fight. Try to pop your stances appropriately not too early not too late. Anticipate bursts most people use meta battle so learn those builds and rotations. Use Rampage before you’re below 30% health lol and pop your heal sig before you rampage 1) it doesnt work during rampge 2) the cd will be almost down when you’re about done rampaging. I’d find some thieves and necros to spar with. Maybe someone who plays a warrior so give you pointers during play.

All comes down to practice theory is great, but doing it is better. Good luck!

Ottohi.2871:

Torch is a GOOD new weapon that NOBODY knows how to really work. Seriously. Almost all people run greatsword (Because all warriors seem to be expected to devote a whole weapon slot to greatsword and never remove it because Anet ignores our poor dual wielding) + whatever (usually longbow, axe/shield, or mace/shield) so not a super ton of testing has been used on it.

So far, pro(s):
-Only offhand with a cripple.
-Only offhand that burns.
-Only weapon warrior has with a condition clean ability (x2).
-Only nonburst combo field (fire).

Con(s):
-Rather long cooldowns (15 (12) sec, and 25 (20) sec).
-The burn duration is lackluster and completely forgettable at times.
-Lacks damage.
-Lacks high condition application(s).

This means it’s mostly utility type weapon. This also means it has to fight for space vs a ranged weapon, or newly buffed shield, or dps mace.
It’s clear it’s to cripple and then get a combo field burst (actual burst or combo) on enemies. However the good finishers require a weapon swap to get to or are easily dodged (Hammer and axe respectively). The only weapon it goes well with without working for is sword.

So right now, it’s good, but no one has found a build that we actively use that it takes precedence over another weapon.

I’d argue against both cons. Arguably the CD for this is high if you’re using fast hands with this weapon. I wouldn’t. The berzker class is mainly for condition to get out of the hands stre/disc/def meta. It has amazing condi application along with an appropriate rotation use.

With what I had was LB/ S/T. I used something like this http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AggDnAJ0Bqg~ as traits depending on the situation usually cleansing ire wasn’t really necessary for me. I think I had wildblow, outrage, shatter blow, and headbutt with heal sig. And a mix of dire/rabid armors/trinkets. I used unded runes as well. The biggest thing with this build is this is not a faceroll build which is why it doesn’t need fasthands which is why the CD isn’t a big deal. I like defense over strength because defense procs are better for this play style…with this set-up I argue the CD is about on par with the rotation and has high condi application <torch>. This is generally the rotation I followed with in pve/pvp: pin down > smolder > fan of arrows > swap > blaze breaker > FoW > Savage leap > headbutt > outrage > flurry > shatter blow > wild blow > swap >pin down…

Typically they were downed/dead by headbutt. I argue the CD is pretty good as is because of the length of this rotation. By the time you get back to it it’s already ready to go. Again you wouldn’t want to spam this rotation if you did you’ll either miss a step, get dodged, they’ll go invis, etc. So this would need timing. I argue against the condi application because of the rotation of bleeds and burns. The FoW is a key part of the rotation to keep continuous condi pressure. Whether you use it as a utility or not is up to the user. Unlike Gaurdian’s staff which is completely utility I don’t see that with the torch. If anything it’s a nice hybrid for condi/self-support.

Note: I would usually go into berzerker before flurry if I felt pressure and swap between LB and S/T for the primal bursts and end up back in S/T to finish the rotation.

Correct me if I misunderstand the point of what you mean. But otherwise just offering my perspective. I believe it’s ‘Berserker doesn’t change how PEOPLE play warrior’. Is that a design flaw or just people? Bit of both?

BurrTheKing.8571:

After playing BW3 I think it’s fairly safe to say that the biggest issue with the Berserker is the design of the form itself. Once you stop going Berserk you feel like a weaker Warrior and I often found myself not using my normal burst skills so that I could insure that once the form came off of CD I could just jump into it.

I agree with this so much. But for me it almost serves as an argument against what you’re saying. I mean to say you literally just gave a few obvious playstyle difference from current warrior meta! The biggest is the managing your adrenaline so you can do something more with it rather than just spam f1.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I assume the long CD was to differentiate Berserk from Death/Reaper Shroud. However, I feel like going Berserk would be much more fun if you could maintain the form longer by consistently hitting the enemy. Changes like this would be radical, but would really make Berserker feel like a totally different playstyle to Warrior:

• Berserk has no CD, but by default a lower duration.

• Landing Primal Bursts extends your Berserk time.

• You only have Berserk Form and Primal Bursts, you lose your regular Bursts.

This wouldn’t change anything from what the warrior is now except you get one bar instead of three with overpowered F1 you can constantly spam. Which is why I doubt it’ll happen like you mentioned. But my point is with the duration mechanic it adds a subtle element that the revenant has which is active energy management. If it didn’t it’d be another faceroll heavy. With a subtle pseudo adrenaline management it adds a key part that will, in my opinion, differentiate berserkers from warriors that have berserk.

BurrTheKing.8571:

That probably sounds crazy to some, but if all you have to do to go Berserk is reach that 30 adrenaline and you have no CD on the form then you not only don’t need those normal bursts anyways, but it also makes a Berserker very different from Warrior.

Literally what I mean above^ No change except overpower faceroll = no change in warrior.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Right now, Berserker just feels like Warrior + a new form. By losing their normal Burst skills, the player has truly become something very different than a standard Warrior. You will be consistently angry and a good Berserker will STAY angry. Right now, a Berserker gets angry for a very specific amount of time…then goes back to being a Warrior.

Valid point, but I don’t want to be mad forever. ;]

BurrTheKing.8571:

Having consistent access to 5 second CD bursts would also potentially make Discipline (Fast Hands) feel less mandatory. I still think Fast Hands should be baseline, but if the devs aren’t OK with this then at least you’ll be less punished for having a slower weapon swap because you’ll be able to push out more Primal Bursts.

I never used disc in my berserker builds so arguable. Fast hands is too ingrained in warrior meta NOW which is why it will never not be baseline, like you said.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Like many of my posts, I know a radical rework (more in the terms of design as opposed to the difficulty to implement) such as this will mostly likely not happen, nor will this be seen by any of the class design devs. However, the idea of Berserker being a spec that allows you to consistently enter this new form at the cost of your old abilities seems much more in line with what Elite Specializations are supposed to be. The Reaper seems VERY different from the Necro because a major part of their mechanics change. Berserker is Warrior + New stuff – a specialization you probably didn’t wanna give up for Berserker.

Matter of opinion, but I respect it.

Jzaku.9765:

Am I the only one who feels that there’s just no passion for warr/berk from Anet at all? That they’re just doing it out of obligation?

I do not feel that way. I believe it’s partly what was expectation vs what was delivered.

I can’t remember which PoI it was, but it was said berzerker was intended to be pure condi, but got ‘changed’ last minute to incorporate some new traits for melees too. I think they revamped face mashing ol’ warrior into a new role of what I found to be condition based mitigation. To me this is a huge playstyle change from what I see now. Does everyone like that new style? Maybe not. What I’ve been seeing happening is that warrior is thought of as a physical faceroll tank. Do lots of burst, do some CC, high survivablity, and be done. Now, people are seemingly trying to fit a square peg into a circle and getting upset and calling it bad design ignored or what have you. I’m not pointing fingers at OP nor am I accusing anyone here of this, but does this seem plausible? I made a successful burn bleed build that pooped 4k bleeds and burns interchangeably. And also experimented with an amazing interrupting condi build. BOTH which used all rage skills. The big thing I saw lacking was the synergy with heal skills which has been a warrior problem a long time. I’m not arguing warrior needs some attention. I argue they did the same thing with warrior they did with other classes which is revamping their playstyle with something viable. What I DID NOT see is a lot synergy with zerker with current meta playstyle, GS/H, GS/LB, A/S etc. I’m not saying there aren’t any, but with what I played with I found new ways to play warrior, with conditions…

Jzaku.9765:

And you wonder how Berserker ended up being Rampage with skills 1-5 split among utilities essentially. Every class gets effects added to their core mechanics, but ours (burst skill and adrenaline) is replaced…. by skills that, extremely unimaginatively, basically all do the same thing as the old ones. And you also look at how the balance team was passionate enough about Mesmer to make a grandmaster trait baseline but absolutely don’t care about how almost all Warriors are clamouring for a minor trait to be made baseline.

Arguably every skill in every profession in the game does the same thing when looked at such a high level as I believe this statement is doing…do physical damage, do condition, mitigate damage, heal, heal others, crowd control. You made a valid statement don’t misunderstand me, but I don’t know if it’s a solid one for some of your arguments.

Thuggernaut.1250:

I see your point, and I see the need for experimentation and build diversity. It just frustrates me that Berserker doesn’t bring much to the table for power builds. In fact, it just hurts power builds because you have to replace something more important to take Berserker. Plus most of the primal bursts are mediocre or sidegrade at best.

It’s like they’re penalizing Warrior’s bread-and-butter with the elite, and you might as well forget this elite and wait for the next expansion pack if you want a true “Smash Brawler” specialization.

Thanks for the feedback, I didn’t mean to disrespect people that want to play condi builds on Warrior, I just wish Berserker had brought something powerful and game-changing to the table like the other elites (Reaper, Chrono).

I understand. I was pretty underwhelmed as well with power/support with the berzerk spec as well. I honestly could only come up with decent condi based builds. lol Confusion/burns-bleed. I had a hard time convincing myself to take the spec otherwise for my GS/Hammer and M/S. Mayhaps something will come up. But it does look like the ol’ hammer/GS Rampaging stances will still be a thing.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Lol 62.5 health…well if I think that’s worth it, then I’m the problem.

Once again, Anet if you’re reading this, does healing power seem worth it as is?

If I stack correctly with my warrior on a typical hybrid build. I can get with boosters, heal sig, and regen a good 500+ health per sec. And with warriors major health pool and toughness…this can be significant in fights. Passive buffs like this are sometimes overlooked, but can definitely change a fight. Maybe not to the degree of using an elite or something, but still a lot of small things add up.

Thuggernaut.1250:

jadaniel.4910:

Note: Zerker was actually intended to be pure condi when they designed it, but changed it last minute. In one of the POIs.

We play Warrior to smash, bash, and crash around the battlefield, not kittenfoot around with other classes’ cast-offs. I would rather do one thing right (smash stuff) than a couple things kitten (hybrid, condi).

However valid not necessarily true for everyone. I enjoy having 27k health pool 2k armor and kittenting 4kburns/bleeds before anyone can even bat an eye at me.

Warriors are already balls deep profession no reason to add the same mechanic. I guess the whole of elite specs was to bring roundness for all professions. So, a War could go condi, or an engi could go stealth trickster burst, or a guard could go trappy. Keeping professions in one little niche is counter to what ANet is trying to do whether it pleases everyone idk. But I like being able to play different flavors of my favorite profession.

Like I said not trying to invalidate opinions, but just pointing out some other.

Dunno if this is a bug. It hits twice because 1 there’s a pierce trait for rifles and 2 it explodes? Guess it could be interpreted as unintended behavior, but looking at the two descriptions they do conflict…seems trait lines > wep functionality. The more you know o/

Specs: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AggDnAJ0Bqg~
Armor: Rabid, Krait/Bael/Undead runes any of these would work
Weps: S/T LB – leech, geo/ doom/energy
Utils: Heal sig, shatter, wild blow, outrage, headbutt -still debating on heal not sure yet…

Did a variant in wvw with rabid/dire armor trinks. Worked well in 1v1 pooped burns and bleeds.

Note: Zerker was actually intended to be pure condi when they designed it, but changed it last minute. In one of the POIs.

Neox.3497:

That’s where my hope comes that you won’t be able to do the content with only 10xA or 10xD, but that you can or you MUST do the content with 5xA and 5xD or 3xA, 2xB, 2xC and 3xD or 5xB and 5xC or any other combination.

B and C would be a mix of A and D.

For example~:
A = Berserker’s
B = Soldier’s
C = Knight’s
D = Nomad’s

I know in practice it’s not that simple but going in that direction would be great. Add the “requirement” of 2 tanks, 2 healer, 4 pure damage dealer 2 condition damage dealer and on paper pretty much every set could be viable in the the right team composistion without taking 5x longer to complete the content.

And as I said on paper, in practice this might not be that easy to implement. Additionally there comes the profession balance, but that’s another topic.

I hope so as well. The last comment I made was a little sarcastic, but the point is still there. Like you said easier said than done, but with the steering the composition away from a certain top tier meta would be a great start. I think it impossible to break away from meta completely, but with the ability to not HAVE to gear a certain way every time and avoiding ‘zerk only’ posts would be nice.

I think the nature of the game it just makes sense that it’d be way more difficult, using your example, to just have 10Ds etc, not saying it can’t be done, but definitely you see the disadvantages of having just one class set. However, you don’t ‘HAVE’ to which is the key. =]

Neox.3497:

Challenging content requires good loot or we end up with something like Aetherpath. Why do something that’s hard when you can just do the easy things that reward more?

Also the current discussion went totally off road.

Raids need to be challenging, otherwise everybody will run it once per week and everybody will have the legendary armor at the same time.

Also not many will “speed-run” it anyway simply because of the weekly loot and that’s a good thing. As I said earlier the meta(s) will be about just COMPLETING the raid and NOT about finishing it FAST.

You won’t lose much time since it’s only once per week and since all-full zerker might not be possible the optimal completion time won’t be that much higher anyway.

Challenging content and arguably any part of a game needs to tend to all/most of the types of player ‘suits’ in reference to the paper I linked in a previous post. Good loot isn’t enough to get a majority to play the content continuously or more than they are now at least. Aetherblade is a great example of this. I played for exploring <exploring new content>, achievements <achiever get new kitten>, and the importance of comms with my guild <social>. So this basically covers 3/4 of the major groups players may fall in.

Problem that happened is that after you farmed achievments, beat it a couple of times, and lose the social appeal <not pugs>. I personally lost interest in the path. NOT just because of lack of rewards. So, really it’s catering towards more than one type of incentive. Not just some reward you get daily which is enough to get people to play ‘non challenging’ content, relative to Aetherblade that is.

Seeing how the meta discussion got derailed into incentive. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with this paper . I found it pretty useful to understand playing styles and incentives in general. That being said unless someone can accurately pole in the Gw2 community for what reasons they play stating ‘reason X is the main reason players will do thing X’ is pretty arbitrary.

I also notice arguments over semantics on what meta means. (IF)Meta being the most widely accepted and proven way to accomplish thing X by doing actions A instead of doing actions b,c,d, etc. Then it simply comes down to optimization. And optimization is something that won’t go away in gaming. Shown by the amazing amount of speed clears of numerous games not limited to MMOs <optimizing time and resources>. Solution? All feasible actions that can be done to do thing X should have equal weight in completing thing X successfully with individual skill, knowledge, communication factors ignored.

So, in theory a group of all clerics should be able to clear dungeon X as fast as a group of Zerkers, dire, etc. \o/

EFWinters.5421:

1v1 in WvW means nothing and is the most brainless form of fighting. It’s 90% about what build you are running.

You mean if it’s not dire <perplex optional> then I shouldn’t be solo roaming?

Lol, idk 10 second insta stun breaker, auto leap into earther shaker, anti projectile with a kittening fist, personal fire field that follows you around…doesn’t sound like ele to me.

The fact is most of what I’m seeing is anecdotal evidence of ‘Rampage OP’. Such things being said ‘i see it everywhere it’s OP’, ‘its an auto win it’s OP’, ‘warriors suck if they don’t use it’, etc etc. Not really anything concrete at least from a numbers side. The only thing I’d actually consider is what op said about the synergy between peak performance and rampage. Seems like if there were anything that need be nerfed it’d be peak performance synergy with rampage. I remember seeing someone mention making it a stance or something, maybe this would help?

All that being said it’s hard to say without some pretty numbers and a solid comparison to whatever is ‘balanced’ that is: Is rampage meta/OP because it’s a cheesy face-roll and people can’t play warrior without it and because user doesn’t have required skill to play warrior without a cheese button. Or is it because it’s truly overpowered with peak performance via comparison with other similar builds and numbers.

Similar case I’d argue mesmer PU is overpowered now because of the fancy burst, but I’ve come to see that really it’s just my failure to recognize play-style and damage/burst mitigation for me at least. I say this due to I can actually avoid mesmer burst very easily now and can actually kill one if I do my rotations well.

Harper.4173:

The skill is currently the only chance you get as a warrior in the current state of the game in PvP when facing decent opponents that are not completely bad.

It has a SHORT duration – any decent opponent will avoid you for that duration of time.

I’ve had no problem keeping rampage warriors at bay on the other classes i play in pvp ( guardian, thief and ranger).

It’s just that the counterplay with rampage is different then what more players are used to : Warrior pops rampage? Wait it out and do not engage – kite and avoid him for 20 seconds then push in and fight.

edit: this is what I’m getting at as well^

Zephyra.4709:

If they tweaked shield skill #4’s dash range to be like the EOTM Kodan Bear vet’s one I would be the happiest person. Agreed with others though, shield atm is pretty good as it is. Just that short dash distance though…. Wish it could have a slight increase or break immobilize?

Doesn’t it count as a mobility skill? Thought there was a trait for that Warriors’ Sprint? I can’t remember off top of my head if this is true or not.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

jadaniel.4910:

Dimjoee.3895:

But jadaniel he runs insanely fast he takes no damage and no falling damage either, I let him fall of a cliff with the 50% fall damage reduction trait and he just insta killed me while I still needed to get up from the fall.

Yes, it’s the nature of the exploit. From what I’ve learned being under a map is like a one-way mirror. Attacks can go through the map but not vis versa. Why? Couldn’t tell you except it was probably the way it was designed and no one designer/QA/Engineer thought someone could get under the map and now this is the result. Think about what it’d mean to be under a map. None of the rules while on it apply to you including damage, falling, obstacles, monsters, npcs, etc.<Again this is speculation>

Except there is water under the maps, so it’s impossible the hacker uses land attacks and finishers.

Also, about “coming from the ground”, I actually see it coming from the land, the hacker is invisible and, if you think it’s a bit low, think it’s an asura

Anyway, these kinds of hacks have been around for a long time: even top servers are know for hacking (flying and dezooming)…

Fair enough. Either way is what it is I suppose. Didn’t know about the water thing though. Pretty neat.

1) http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56725621.jpg
2) lrn2bullet http://www.thinkoutsidetheslide.com/how-to-write-powerful-bullet-points/

Dimjoee.3895:

But jadaniel he runs insanely fast he takes no damage and no falling damage either, I let him fall of a cliff with the 50% fall damage reduction trait and he just insta killed me while I still needed to get up from the fall.

Yes, it’s the nature of the exploit. From what I’ve learned being under a map is like a one-way mirror. Attacks can go through the map but not vis versa. Why? Couldn’t tell you except it was probably the way it was designed and no one designer/QA/Engineer thought someone could get under the map and now this is the result. Think about what it’d mean to be under a map. None of the rules while on it apply to you including damage, falling, obstacles, monsters, npcs, etc.<Again this is speculation>

Radagast.6271:

But me, UW people, FoW people gave dates,server, time, even video why noone stopping this, hacker is still there now striking with omega golem rocket skill… no point in this… why noone care?

As I mentioned above this post. The time it takes to investigate this is more complex. Not really trying to defend ANet, but from their pov you need to have a lot of solid information to make sure everything is resolved. Going through terabytes of logs on servers takes a lot of time. Even then you aren’t certain if it’s valid. Sometimes the solution once they find the true cause takes even more time to design without breaking an entire map. Things like this don’t typically happen very often. And this occurrence is most likely one of many. So even then it takes time. Videos like this definitely help their cause and give them one more step to solving the issue.

There is no reason to assume no one cares or isn’t aware. Lack of an answer doesn’t imply anything except that there is no current information. As to why they haven’t given it to use is anyone’s guess. And still it’s just a guess. Again try to be patient and supportive. Frustration is a valid emotion here as is any other, but remember that it isn’t as supportive as being patient and understanding.

There’s probably an hole somewhere in the map not really hacking as much as exploitation. Which would explain his invis. Notice where his pistol shots are coming from. Not from torso but underground. Also would explain him going through walls and such since there are none underground at least that’s my assumption. There have been previously patched holes in other WVW and PvE as well as PvP maps. Until someone comes up with the location and how to get there it’ll be very difficult for ANet to find it. It’s not as simple as ‘Oh there’s a gap in the map let’s block it.’ This type of bug as it is can take time to find and properly patch. Be patient and be aware. Good job on the video though. +1

Linfang.1087:

don’t be silly, we already know it’s dual wielding Long bow.

From what I heard it’s Hammer offhand. Spec called “Wack-A-Troll”.

jbondo.9817:

Mace/Mace is a very fun set up, but the problem is ‘Skull Crack’.

I would argue against this statement. Reading through your post I’m more curious about the rest of your set-up aside from M/M. Gear/Traits specifically. Could I see those so I can see what you’re working with?

jbondo.9817:

Yes it’s an incredible stun, and the mace set up adds a KD + a stun, but while those are strong things Skull Crack is a different story.

Focusing on the fact that this weapon set has a lot of CC it makes sense that’s what it does well. If it was like GS which is primarily used as DPS and some mobility this set would be a little silly by that I mean the set sets itself up. So focusing a wep set on simple roles keeps a sense of balance.

jbondo.9817:

Skull Crack does a good bit of damage, less than Evicerate or Arcing slice, but unlike those skills the range is crap! I understand that Arcing Slice is only 20 more range, but that is a large difference.

Range doesn’t really address the some of the other problems that you mention later which are telegraphed skills and speed/slowness which I believe contributes to the overall issue I think mentioned here. Warrior is notorious for telegraphed skills. Which is ok! Because we have a ridiculous amount of CC skills so even if you see it guess what you’re going to eat it anyway. You just get to see it coming!

jbondo.9817:

Skull Crack is hard to land, more so in 1v1s, not so much in team fights, but again with a mace/mace set up you’re often the first target, and you often go down pretty fast. If skull crack had 150+ range it’d be more viable, but right now you can simply walk out of the skill, and that’s a little ridiculous.

I rarely see this set-up in 1v1 tournies for a reason. It’s not meant for single targets via the huge wave of KD, the overall slowness of the weapon set. It’s easier in team fights because of the general chaos of it. I’d recommend choosing weapon sets per situation.

jbondo.9817:

The animation is noticeable enough that you could dodge out of it, for people who believe a range of 150+ would be too much, but as I recall eviscerate has a leap added to it, and does a lot more damage. Skull Crack and Eviscerate also have very noticeable animations, the problem is Skull Crack has a very short range, and you have to stand on top of a player to land it, which makes it weak when fighting in team fights, and when fighting 1v1, especially when fighting necros, and anything with aoe skills.

I agree, as I said earlier about animations and slowness. Warriors are bad about this, but we have compensation skills like mobility and quickness. I’d recommend kiting/baiting/timing as generic advice. Kite until you can set-up <necros mesmers thieves>. Bait thieves with low cooldown CC/KD. They’ll ‘see’ it coming so bait them. Count dodges, count their counter CC they’ve used. Then begin to set-up for reals. I sense you see a lot of gaps in fights. I’d suggest a wep set but not sure what you’re using. GS has great mobility. I.E use rush to chase thieves down use whirlwind to mitigate bursts. Once you get right on top of em and they ran out of mobility skills like blink then switch, SC, and switch back for HB -timing is involved but you get the idea. Also, you can move around a little bit with SC like Pistol Whip for thieves. So watch their movement and you can do a 180 and land it. Maybe utilize frenzy to throw them off? Again I don’t know what your whole build is.

jbondo.9817:

Perhaps it’s my play style with it, but +20 range would make mace/mace viable.

It will just mean you can be farther away which doesn’t mean they can’t see it or dodge it. Nor does it address the slowness or telegraphedness<?lol>

Just thoughts and suggestions. I’d like to work with your build and help get something that you like.

EDIT: Noticing typos. Just cleaning them up.

Yea, thinking about trade off between sword and axe depends on playstyle and situational <pvp vs wvw specifically>. I could definitely see how the swords mobility can be a great damage mitigation. If you do try axe I’d actually swap energy for battle/leech and trade geomancy for energy on your bow if that works for you. At least that way you’d get minimum 5 might per LB swap assuming you hit your burst with it, and with axe building adren won’t be hard. Keeping the axe 3 you got your immon AND you get you’re evic all with the int sig you have a nice wombo combo. Even with the shield you have another set-up. The thing here is you swap mobility for a decent hit. Then again you have FT so sword might be best here.

Cele stats generally are used for might stacking builds. Since you aren’t really optimizing stacking with this build is why I suggest battle sigil, but swapping geomancy for energy or moving things around you can still keep intel and paralyzation and have an extra might stack come in. Going the cele route it might be useful to take hoelbrak or strength. You should be able to maintain 15+ might easily AND the fire shield which you should be triggering every time will give you more might EDIT:<shield off of evic and shield bash>. Probably strength since the -condi by itself isn’t useful unless you’re going wvw with -condi foods. This suggestion plays on the cele might stacking route if that’s something you need.

I have tried this myself, but the shout heal as far as I know isn’t affected by solider runes, however it is affected by the grandmaster trait. If you feel you can mitigate enough damage by dodge/kite/shield I’d suggest taking that for more adrenaline if you aren’t happy with amount you get, but keep in mind this shout does have a cast time.

Looks fun will try tonight. Curious why you’re running sword over axe, and wondering if you tried leech or battle over int.

adozu.6398:

“shoutbow” was never wvw meta, it’s hammer/swordhorn

If you mean in zergs you’d most likely see hammer trains with Hammer/S/WH. If you roamed in parties averaging 5 or so then Shoutbow was way more prevalent. If you soloed roam you’d most likely be running neither and some H/GS variant or sword/LB condi build if you’re ballsy. Not a completely invalid statement but not entirely correct either.

Hammer/Greatsword trains are still a thing in some WvW guilds. I’ve seen it. Warriors are still viable in WvW in my experience. I don’t think shoutbow ‘dieing’ caused warriors to lose viability. Just lost popularity because the lose of face-rolling might and heals.

NvN.4321:

-Taking Cleansing ire over Last Stand is bad for following reason : No lower CD on 3 stances and no extra vigor. For condition management there is berserker stance for initiation, signet for heavy condi spikes (burning ++3) and melandru runes for mitigation of lesser condies.

Apparently I can’t read well. Yes this makes sense.

NvN.4321:

@ jadaniel.4910
-Spvp ofc
-Don’t assume that i can’t kill anything and give constructive responses why build is good or bad.
-All of them
-No videos , no pic.

I can offer my opinion on the build. =] I wasn’t sure what you wanted to discuss.

Skills:
Weapon choice is pretty solid. M/S -always good defenses and major CC. Hammer more offensive highly telegraphed is its downside, why I would choose GS over it. However based on the traits this is a better synergy with distracting shots. Utilities are good. I always take rampage and healing sig in spvp. Rampage has good CC and fleeing abilities. Healing sig great here because of high toughness/vitality. three stances are always good. Two great Oh kitten utilities. Drawback is high CD rate and no supporting traits.

Traits:
I would take cleansing ire over last stand and switch frenzy for dolyak signet. <might mess up your playstyle so dunno>. Would also take brawler’s recovery <again my preference> more condi removal on both those suggestions. Strength is kind of wasted tier I find myself in arms with 1 4 7 to be little more helpful.

Runes/Armor/Sigils:
Armor is pretty solid. Crusader might make you more powerful but lower health pool. <give and take there>. Melandru is always solid choice. Would switch force on shield for paralyzation. Hammer sigils look good.

Edit: Overall seems pretty tanky build. Against other tanks might take a while to kill them but definitely see survival in this and some nice CC coming out. Some ify synergy between traits/weapon/utilities. Might suggest tweaking those if you can.