Guild Wars 2

I wouldn’t want to lose any of shortbows utility to balance. It has a nice range of actions like staff and feels as natural.

I’m not playing your matches so I’m not a good judge of which is better any given match between IR and PR. Match duration is going to be different than a fight in WvW when you’re in a squad or floating so immediate impact and cool downs are always going to be a decision. I’ll run PR until I know I’m getting focused pulled and switch, or I’ll look around at their people before contact and think, that bunch looks shady, I know they’re going to pull and lock down at deliberate times and I’ll leave IR on for awhile.

You’re probably using what you need to use until popular builds shift a little more. So much depends on time zone, region, and servers for different game modes.

Elxdark.9702:

DA offers too much in comparison to CS or SA at least for pvp DA is almost mandatory, I can see SA or CS working in WvW tho.

DA with Executioner and Scholars and enough health to scramble out of focus and bombs can even things out wider and faster for you squad in WvW I think. Quickness and CnD into Steal is a nice pin snipe also and bonus stealth to Flanking Strike out of if you don’t want to Tactical Strike, lot of boons to shop around for in WvW, why I pack a lot of concentration. I’m kind of an SMC leech though, I don’t like to work so I like fights to happen fast or I’m out.

Kneel didn’t feel much different than crouching or prone in most first person shooters. The most trouble will probably come from switching between DE and the other builds often, where muscle memory wants those keys like Rifle 3,4, and 5 to do something else in regards to movement or function.

If we got a small cover wall it would probably just block line of sight for our own stuff.

I don’t get much out of stealth in combat unless to de-target myself in large zerg play. I might do a Cloak and Dagger from distance once in awhile for a Tactical Strike but mostly I use stealth out of combat to mask direction or to round corners. There’s not more pros to your idea, just the possibility of making WvW combat more lame than it already is.

I hardly play s/p so I can’t add much. I still like CnD into Steal and Flanking Strike is nice directional or targeted, especially with a jump+dodge into Flanking Strike where too many things mess with pathing. S/d w/rifle still allowed some interception and interference but maybe s/p will have a better post up game if you’re going DE. D/p w/SB and Dash is still probably best corner cutter set but for open world and wvw s/d w/SB on acro/da/trick spreads your influence around pretty quickly.

If on that core s/d build, SB #5 into dodge can slide on top of squad pushes or dense mobs in pve and cross a map fast enough if you don’t have Dash.

With the cast times everywhere and how in and out of stationary we are I feel like we’re supposed to play the longer thought out game a few steps ahead. But then something like 4 sec to Shadow Swap and the synergy across the Cantrips and what traits do to Marks and openers make me feel rushed into one big move or to recycle everything as fast as I can. I can build to be a Steal Fidget spinner but when I wanted to actually play more long range set up for big shots I depended on core utilities and weapons skills a lot, chalk it up to inexperience I guess.

I get what Mark can do but with how reliant on target it is I rarely felt the possible rewards beyond the core Steal functions which made me really hate that cast time. Maybe after the new and old builds hit each other for awhile some stuff will normalize or I’ll get better and the cool moves Deadeye should be setting up will get some room and play out more.

UndefinedLime.2063:

A lot of the little quality of life changes ‘thief mains’ have been asking for via feedback would be ameliorated if we could move away from the trickery line. If the traitline preparedness (three extra initiative) was made baseline, then people would feel more comfortable not having to run trickery.

Still might as well take the daze and Bountiful Theft.

CrimsonIce.6547:

A couple things that made me really frustrated with this class that need to be addressed were for one the tracking on the rifle shots. They are way to slow even with the supposed 50% increased speed when traited. The visible ring created when kneeling is either off or tracking between 900-1500 range will say out of range or obstructed. I could hit targets while standing but they’d become obstructed when kneeling on a flat plane and the tracking stealth attack would say obstructed when I could hit with normal attacks in the same spot. The visual animations and crappy tracking give away every attack and make it possible for even a non-veteran player to just move and the attacks miss. Also please fix stealth, it’s complete garbage that after going into stealth any channeling still will track and hit. Especially when Mesmers, eles and rangers use long skills like rapid fire. When a player goes into stealth at least cause the channeling skill to be cancelled and put on an instant cd. I should not be tracked by rapid fire and hit repeatedly after stealthing. And the rifle range should be greater than longbow and more powerful with the cast time given.

I noticed that more last night, pathing for everything thief kind of sucks to being with and combined with their updated maps for wvw where old short cuts don’t work anymore I felt like I gave away too many handicaps.

CrimsonIce.6547:

In addition, not sure if I just missed this or not, but please add a timer to marked players so they know how long they’ve been marked for. If you’re going to give away any ability to surprise a target by showing marks you might as well let marked targets know when they’re safe again.

Every time I mark someone they melt away across the map never to be seen again like they owe me money or something.

Adding, Mark is nice very seldom to interrupt unexpectedly from distance or height but all the cast times on DE make everything a warning for badguys. At least polish up Death’s Retreat to make it a go-to like Dash or something.

The two strong DE builds I felt were SA with d/p-rifle and Acro with S/D-rifle. SA is great until you’re pinged and you won’t get off anything fast enough to not get interrupted, slowed, whatever. Acro S/D and Rifle still feels like two separate builds but at least it has some mitigation in Endurance to stagger around and the weapons themselves work oddly well together if their traits don’t seem to gel.

Deadeye cast times get shaken up pretty easily, make them butterfingers and they’re going to run. They’re good if they can do a dry run of a fight in their heads really quick and pull it off but it’s a big gamble if they get stopped in any way.

Shadow Swap to Shadow Gust is fun on walls and stuff but you might as well strap on a suicide vest because it’s maybe 50/50 against anyone still awake. A field would be something to bounce in and out of and 30 sec isn’t a bad cool down to set up for pushes and all that. Shadow Gust is a high cool down for how dangerous it is and they’ll probably soak it all up anyway, it was more of a “there’s the zerg no one bothered to call out” utility but if you got some major plot armor you can Swap in, Gust, and Retreat out for a cool looking play that’s probably not worth it.

Elxdark.9702:

S/D DE actually reminds me of old acro S/D, agile, high pressure, good 1v1, good mobility and a lot of dodges.

Infiltrators worked really well with s/d rifle in wvw, even if it didn’t totally close in it put me back in rifle range to interrupt some. Still miss instant Steal close though pretty often, ouch, even as a get-a-way. I’d likely end up going mostly s/d sb also at some point, why go Kneel without Silent Scope? Having that much stealth with SA and d/p was nice but with dagger OH I’d rather have Unforgiving.

Wargameur.6950:

• Shadow Flare : Right know shadow flare is too close to shadowstep. Adding an aoe reveal on landing of this skill would make it truly unique !
• Shadow Meld : OK elite

Shadow Meld wasn’t bad for s/d, it’s the more casual non CnD stealth option without a more fluid leap, I didn’t miss BV as much with Unforgiving and Swindlers. It’s still going to hurt not closing the distance though, almost everything DE really needs rifle to be equipped, but we’ll all probably figure something out eventually, maybe. I really liked it with Shadow Arts and d/p though.

A reveal on it would be nice. I mostly used it as an aoe to tag a bunch at once, still kind of need to take Shadowstep with it especially if your not taking Shortbow. It’s name is even Flare, it should light them up but who knows if we might pick this trait line apart and make it work competitively it could be a bit strong being a closer as well. I’d still take it though, no shame.

-I got used to Kneel pretty fast and it makes a reasonable difficult trait choice, kind of alright with that.
-I don’t like having the get-a-way skill on skill slot 4 instead of 3 and turning it into a stationary in Kneel might be hard to get used to.
-I almost like Shadow Flare for topography but the cast time makes me take Shadowstep instead.
-Has to be more noticeable in spvp but even in wvw I feel like clutch saves are going to take a dive with the cast time on Deadeye’s Mark. I also feel a bit locked into taking DA with it as you might as well pack as much into the Mark as possible with the cast time and with the cast time, still feel like I need d/p for faster interrupt.
-I’d use s/d-shortbow or rifle with acro/trick/de but I don’t think any fights even 1v1 will make Swindlers come into play much since the Mark has to much dependency on the target so again, might as well take DA with d/p-rifle.
——sub point, I have to be careful with sword to not take too many boons if I want to use rifle stealth also to leave enough to land conditions, s/d and rifle feels like switching between two different builds, which is fine since DE should be a different play style I guess but I’d have to take same care with Rending Shade. It’s either boon love or boon hate, boon hate seems better for your team. There’s some decent boons to give your team with Peripheral Vision but when can you set those up perfectly without being on voice comms?

As much as I’d like more certainty the trait before the change was more active with Daredevil endurance. I understand it should be equally effective with core traits now, but it shouldn’t have frequent dead space.

babazhook.6805:

Ok I just noticed now the change to endless stamina. Another Kudo’s. This is 16 percent boon duration antoehr welcome add and really elevates the Acro line as a whole.

I’m still out of town and not totally caught up, that sounds awesome. My s/d and d/p SA builds for the last few months havr been based around boon duration and it’s tricky balancing between that and things I don’t want to give up. That should ease up some decisions on gear and food/utility.

Bummer. BT with swindlers equilibrium almost always put one more Steal in the chamber to block a stomp. That sort of happened as consequence of being in the way in WvW. That’s gotta kill some clutch plays in spvp were there’s more tight sequences. That kind of change is going to make both sides spend more and try to bake more passives into things.

I’ve always felt a little encouraged to use Steal early for this trait to maximize use even if it wasn’t really necessary. It kind of promoted wasteful spending on my part since I’d combo Steal with CnD for some cover after. This change does seem to make it feel more necessary to open with Steal with a set cool down.

Swindlers trait, some of the stolen items changes, and dancing dagger have me excited to get back home to my sword/dagger. Still a week and a half out of town though, getting salty reading these posts. I’d be more excited about the different Haste changes but I’m not sure if they’ll naturally come into play more, trait is on same cool down and I don’t think the utility will edge into a spot over other stuff yet.

D/p and rifle if I’m using shadow arts probably with Rending Shade, so I’d just be dropping short bow. My go to set is s/d so I’ll work something out with that. I’m bad at crafting full builds, I usually just change a little here and there all the time so I don’t really know what I’ll end up using most.

When I do my quartz run and when I need to go to HoT maps something close to the WvW staff build on metabattle has been the most fluid. I take scholar runes and I think a few valk pieces I’m too lazy to switch out of. You should be able to take or duck a hit pretty easily and you’ll do enough damage with few awkward pauses. Makes my dailies easier.

AikijinX.6258:

It’s DeadEye’s utilities that I hope to see reliability with.

Ya you’re right about that, it will be a larger difference to DE than from other builds to each other, even just the core two dodges will be a big difference so it would be nice to have some new utilities that compliment how a rifle or DE build will play.

I think our weapons and utilities are pretty strong underwater, especially scorpion wire and basilik. If you can keep getting to Shadow Assault after your burst and during theirs and have both rise and sink keys bound you should feel pretty safe down there. I still fear mesmers underwater though.

Rifle looks alright even for aoe and doesn’t look as static as people make it sound. Most DrD builds I see posted and used only take Bound for extra damage anyway. The strength for me with DrD was having so much impact come out of endurance resource pool instead of initiative or utility and that happens as consequence of moving how we move anyway.

I think what could hurt DE the most is having the whole show tied up in that single target Mark and in turn on Cantrips and relying on the target to live long enough to boost Mark’ed modifiers or to die fast enough to reset everything. The rest of the specialty looks pretty awesome for how it’s supposed to play but that aspect of it feels like a tight window, still, it could end up playing out just fine.

babazhook.6805:

I note the utilities off the Rifle all tend to have activation times that are higher then is normal on a thief. As well a target will KNOW when he is marked which in effect an added “tell” that s/he can react to.

While live playtesting needed to see how this all works out, I am thinking that this combination addresses many of the “it OP” concerns. Yes a thief at extreme range can load on a world of hurt with seeming impunity BUT there will be counters. (Was there any indication that marking one target would override one that might have been marked earlier?)

It does appear to be a more “static” type build than I favor as a thief but I will certainly give it a try. Initial impressions are that it will play much more differently when compared to core than DrD does when compared to core. From what I see as well , this might mesh very nicely with SA line with RS. Trickery line might be less needed.

There’s a couple of blinks though and some good crowd control and even the kneel skills don’t lock you in, you just give up the extra damage if you stand up. This looks more like a post up and shoot or control and move, doesn’t seem much of a stretch from dueling pace and movement with d/p or s/d maybe. It looks like it hits a lot of the same beats as my SA build. I’m sure we’ll want to Kneel for big payoffs though and that’s going to be intense timing, will be like playing chicken with a train in wvw squad play.

Nice, that Mercy utility will be nice then if you still build around Steal.

KyorFish.5896:

Minors —-——-
Dead-Eye Mark – this replaces your steal ability, puts a mark on your target and steals an ability from them, ( its like a steal but from range and no porting ) Also all traits that effect steal affect dead-eye mark, (so interrupt, boon strip, etc)

So that includes traits like Serpent’s Touch, Mug, and Hidden Thief as well?

Deniara Devious.3948:

Wow… sounds seriously overpowered, especially for WvWvW small scale roaming (which is already badly balanced). If shadow gust and blinding shadow have shorter CD than the typical stun breaker, the marked enemy is toast. I am not claiming it will be the best 1 vs 1, but if there would be 2 dead-eyes on same target, I think that basically means that target is dead.

If WvW gets the recent pvp sigils then this trait line and kit might get crazy. We have to give up another trait line for it though if we want the cantrips and traits with other weapons still. I don’t see great synergy yet for the trade offs but as a support kit it looks like it would do better in large scale squad vs squad.

grayskull.2367:

Deadeye is not a 1v1 build its a 1v2, its best used when you opponent is busy fight some one else, so you can take a sniper shot at them catching the off guard its a ambush class like the warrior kill shot build was.

crap 1v1 Amazing 1v2 load of troll potential XD

You don’t know what Deadeye is yet. You haven’t played it yet.

In one of the short clips it looks like there’s some post up then a flip or blink back. The actual game play doesn’t look too far off from d/p and Dash dueling.

I haven’t been excited about rifle but those animations don’t look bad really, they look like the right amount of snappiness and aren’t too ridiculous, that jump back animation in the video is the kind of elastic snappiness I wish sword animations would have. Would have liked to have seen a prone along with that kneel but close enough.

I didn’t know that bothered me much but ya it kind of does. It makes staff feel heavy, I only use it really big Stonemist Castle fights or whatever because I like its skill animations in that case especially with some physical utility animations.

They lost me on story stuff back when Trahearne wouldn’t shut up for a minute and it’s been really tough trying to care again. Maybe it’s the voice actor for my character but nothing ever feels dire in a real sense. He always sounds like he’s only acting serious to play along with the angsty larpers like he’s their counselor just trying to keep them from hurting themselves or their classmates.

saerni.2584:

Anet will probably provide projectile bonuses to the elite spec so we will see how that meshes with our current meta, rifle nonwithstanding.

Ideally it will provide more stealth oriented gameplay as opposed to evade based Daredevil.

I’d like to be land a Rending Shade from full range, boon shopping can get risky sometimes.

The usual acro/tr/dd staff build should be fine if you learn to peel around your groups before the other side has a chance to pull or stop you. If you’re roaming or floating a little off squad you can take d/p with it but if you’re short on time and need to zerg for action all the way take shortbow and know when to blast and when and where to land chocking gas. I like Blinding Powder but I usually end up taking Shadow Refuge, stuff happens. Read minds, you’ll see what that zerg and their driver is about to do most of the time if you slow down a bit and pace yourself. Steal a stealth or jump into someones smoke once in awhile to mask yourself as a target and shortbow 5 to another spot. If you’re not on voice comms with tag make a habit of reading their minds also.

I don’t know really, it’s passable but it’s a hard thief life. For awhile you’ll get pulled and die because you suck and then you’ll get pulled and die because you don’t suck but if that’s the best way to crank out your reward track then go for it. If you’re a casual player like me it’s still worth it to watch some thief vids, watch the roaming vids though even if you’re all about zerging.

I like to have Vault, Debilitating Arch, and Infiltrator’s Arrow with Executioner, Staff Master, and Bounding Dodger. If you’re mostly just doing your daily nodes though just have Unhindered Combat and Stealth. Acro/Trickery/Daredevil with Havoc and Staff Master isn’t bad if you’re just generally running around.

Xtinct.7031:

would be nice to see larcenous strike more useful.
change the boon steal priority list to something like: Might, Fury, Protection, Ageis

You can combo with Bountiful Theft or Absorption rune depending on their boon lineup.

Svarty.8019:

Well it’s obvious, isn’t it? Initiative allows Thieves to burst/spam most abilities like crazyfools. This includes engage/disengage.

Regen on initiative would make more sense if it were tied to them actually achieving something, or putting themselves in a risky position (like Necro has to with Life-Force), instead of having it magically return (and quickly) when they aren’t even near a fight. In this regard, the risk factor is lacking.

That’s the issue I think many people have with thief.

Thieves are forced into a trait line for more initiative. It can allow a burst, but any thief spamming initiative skills is a free kill, how are you even having a problem with thieves who spam their skills?

You blink but the shot still travels. I’m just in habit at this point to jump+sb5 and other skills that can get hung up on stuff.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Again tell which site tells that everthying is relative Balanced ?
Any GvG sites with top GvGers that give their opinion on that , or what should be buffed ?
Or any High lvl WvWvw Streamer , that have make a thread about it ?
Where do you get you immaginery stats ?
TELLLL MEEE !!!!

You are condracting yourself
You are telling me that thief has only Mobility and now suddenly he has also stealth .
And that stealth shouldnt have a 50% reduction speed or cd , like other MMos .
You dont give vallid reasons about that …. just a ‘’LoL ok hahah noob you dont know ’’ .

Why whine about reducing the defensive spam .. but dont look on your class first ?
How many post do you want to bicker with me to know your class better , and see that your class is the epitomy of spamm and has huge survibility ?

You’re reaching for an argument you’re not going to find, you’re just crying hard at this point. If thieves had “huge survivability” then they’d have multiple places in every squad because according to these threads that survivability should go great with perma stealth and endless dodging on top of god like one shot damage. Get out of here with that nonsense, you know better.

Solstace.2514:

I just wish they had a bigger penalty from losing an engagement other than being able to stealth, reset, and try again.

That’s called a handicap. If you want one try setting it up in a duel or something. If you didn’t kill them and they didn’t kill you then no one beat anyone. They’re probably going to check their combat log and come back at you or someone else later, you’re free to do the same.

Kiroshima.8497:

Steal (Dem traits and instant cast, does waaaaay too many things for its CD and ease of use)

Untraited Steal is basically just any environmental item, it actually sucks having to stick to DA and Trickery to bring Steal sort of on par with other signature skills. It sucks, but I can appreciate having to make that decision in a build.

I like sword for the most part but agree it’s auto feels too slow. I don’t know about switching the animation order on Flanking Strike, at least in a team fight I can set up Flanking strike on any target and combo Larcenous Strike with another skill like Steal maybe. Also, the evade is more clutch than the boon steal and you’ll need FS untargeted in large fights at times, having to LS first would put that whole skill on the shelf I think.

apharma.3741:

something thief players largely ignore because a lot of them are biased and want to keep their easy mode.

Or they just play their class and learn from each loss instead of crying on the forums to try to dumb down another class. What it sounds like you want is for the thief to lose initiative and mobility, so why not just delete the whole class so you can enjoy the game again?

Kythan Myr.4719:

However, would not these vets want a more dependable, thriving community?

I would definitely want newer players to gear up while playing WvW. I can’t claim to know anything but going by the way I put my ascended sets together before, newer rank players will likely build enough surplus from just random pve and general salvage from bags to build a couple sets by the time they can make a few Triumphant pieces.

Taobella.6597:

one thing most people probably do to not know that shadow shot skills have extramly low hit box so if you ever use one always jump first an it lower the odd of it getting LOS.

Plus it looks a bit like Heartseeker. I jump+skill a lot, wvw maps especially around downed walls are a mess for pathing also, usually a #3 skill since those get hung up more often but also with things like shortbow 5 and other movement utility. I might look stupid sometimes but I don’t like getting stuck or falling short.

If you turn off when thief goes into stealth that’s on you. It’s stealth, they didn’t disappear, they’r still trying to not get hit.

So did metabattle ditch Sinds frontline staff build or did he change it or did they mash it up with the old one? Anyway OP, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17ltPEglXKfavaA3LkuQmHI3x99i4Xc-TcLL6uH_uzpE/edit#gid=2079293457
JQ Militia thief staff build is still what most people will probably build into on their own playing staff for awhile anyway give or take whatever small changes your matchup needs. I’m not totally on board with their “medic” thief, I like Trickery and Headshot more when I’m playing a rescue/blast bot although that build does look like it can tether tighter around frontline. Metabattles roamer is alright, I like Rending Shade but SR is probably generally better for most. A lot of Rune of the Pack going on with that site but it wont take long to know what runes you’ll want anyway.

I think the conquest d/p build seems fine for general use although I’m using s/d with EA, Executioner, and Impact Strike with it most of the time. I’d probably stick with PI on d/p.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

…..that many evades and even a built in “evade all attacks” trait.

That many evades is one more evade, then you have to spend skills or utility again to refill, if a thief bothers to manage their resources and you don’t then that’s on you. That evade all is on a 40 s cooldown, if you want to blow your entire load on an opener that’s on you as well.

In WvW. I don’t have a crafted or planned build but this is where I’m at right now with s/d I think.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVn8lCdPhFOBmOBkmiFYCTLBEAyAehhzQbYOEeCbhA-TlSBQB6RPQGVuQujAQCV/RDHCgrs/okqCnAg8pJAAPAAGpEMAACwNbz28mBO6RP6RP6RrNv5Nv5NLFAF7sA-w

Scholars and Exposed Weakness handle the top of the fight well enough and Executioner, vulnerability, and whatever seem to roll up the bottom of the fight fast enough. I’ve used Escapists Abs sometimes but I’m not sure if it’s saving me at all or just prolonging things so I normally stick to PI, I feel like with s/d I need to pack the top and bottom of a fight into quick opener sliding into the closer otherwise it’s a longer blink in and out fight which is fine and doable but I’d rather just run away.

I feel like CnD isn’t too bad, great going into Steal. I don’t feel that much more pressure from d/p thieves, my main problem is anything thorny, makes you have to tap lightly a few times to ease into fights so you don’t explode yourself. Dancing Dagger kind of sucks but it’s better with Panic Strike now. My main gripe with sword is that the auto chain doesn’t have to be faster or more powerful, just that I would like the animation to be snappier, or adjust the speed and power to make it looks snappier. That and Flanking Strike skill queue still feels muddy, I double load that one sometimes.

I’m not good enough a player to say what the kit needs, but that’s what I want.