Guild Wars 2

Dash might be working but not in a way someone like me needs it to if the animation remains the same regardless of duration. Being able to flip/dodge across the map in WvW is important to my build, especially considering the terrain pathing issues that it helps me maneuver and for positioning. Using dash during the last beta test got me killed more than it’s intended mechanic, if I can’t leave the ground when I dodge for Swiftness and positioning, any kind of collision to the smallest hill or step puts a stop to my mobility and was annoyingly disorienting.

The way my keys are bound whenever I dodge I also jump so that I jump up and come down rolling once into the dodge. I like the way the basic dodge works and I love the feel of jump dodging which aside from an evade, helps me position allows me move across the map pretty easily with Swiftness on dodge. I’m all for a decent working Dash, it’s my favorite of the elite dodges, but I would like to keep the combination of jump dodging.

deSade.9437:

Sad to say, but the black part on the pants look to be veeeeery dark – not even midnight or abyss actually get close to that kind of oily black, reaching a measly grey… so I fear it could be shadow abyss. Buhu, bad for you….

I use Shadow Orange for a lot of dark areas and it shows up nearly pitch black on some surfaces depending on the skin. Use the Dye preview along with Wardrobe and see how it looks for those clothing items. Shadow Orange seems to be darker on smoother surfaces and tends to fade a bit on more matte material. It also creates a nearly translucent effect on some metal parts like the broach on the Medium Illustrious Shoulder pads and the chest part on the Medium Glorious Chest Piece.

I agree that Initiative points are fun and probably what makes this Thief the one class that best projects what my brain is doing while I’m playing in real time.

I just might not be on a level where I can wander around without a shortbow on me. The #5 skill is simply good in general but it’s also recovered me from bad pathing and the blast finisher is hard for me to let go of. Aside from the fields as well, I like having the choice in distance and spread with the cluster bomb.

I’m not a fan of adding more keys to find room for. I can’t just discount an idea because I don’t like it though but I’d rather these F key ideas posted recently be a new Acrobatics mechanic. Since having more keys to manage is a play style, let it be something to chose.

The ‘fix’ posted today for the dodges sound like a practical change. I do a jump dodge the way my keys are bound and I’ve gotten used to that not only for dodging but for moving and positioning in general and I’d like to keep that dodge mechanic. Unless, I can do the flip into the air but finish off the descent with a quick shadow step/blink.

Bummer, I came to this thread ready to take notes, but this place is spiraling down the rabbit hole pretty fast.

I still have an empty guild tag. I’m not picky, I just want to make sure a recruiting guild doesn’t think their getting one thing and end up with another.

I’m really just waiting for someone to let me crash on their guild couch.

Goliath.9640:

Hey Kash, we’re on the Desolation World. Check out my recruitment message. It’s the one from The Haruspex.

I’m NA, thank’s though.

I don’t get a lot of time to play, maybe an hour or more after work and as much as I can on the weekends. I’ve mostly wandered around aimlessly to see what I run into and join whoever is there since beta, hanging out in WvW and open world stuff. I’ll give anything a shot however, as long as everyone is enjoying it, and I’ll find other stuff to do if people aren’t.

I want to contribute what little I can towards guild features and have guild chat playing in the background and it doesn’t matter if it’s a large or small guild as long as it’s not overly complicated. kash.9213 is my in game name. Preferably Maguuma server but I might transfer at some point if it makes sense. Thank you much.

Gray.9041:

Amante.8109:

You could even have the Grandmaster traits all affect Steal in some way, bringing a core theme back into the mix. This could also serve to offer another trait line that could replace Trickery, if done right.

you can’t really replace trickery until preparedness becomes baseline. the extra initiative is too big.

Tonikor.5637:

Bllade.1029:

WHoever suggested turning the three different dodges into an F3-F4-F5 skill. Thats a fantastic idea.

Take dodges out of the grandmaster traits and replace them with something else.

Thank you.

But it seems some forum heroes dont like the idea and think its overpowered… sigh.

I don’t think it’d be overpowered, but I think a selectable box would be better overall.

It’s not overpowered, it just sounds cumbersome and annoying.

The dodges are fine as a grandmaster trait and as a choice to make to augment your builds playstyle, they just need to be cleaned up and if the dev can’t clean them up, they sure won’t be able to crank out a whole new system. I’m not going to claim it’s a bad idea, but my Zowie mouse with only two extra buttons on the side already struggles a bit after adding another key to Steal. The simplicity and freedom of use is what made the thief class my main to begin with, adding three or four more things to mess around with pretty regularly on top of normal dodge and everything else sounds sloppy to me.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Kocoff.7582:

Testing the Thief for this Beta left me very skeptical of the outcome of the Thief in general. .

ANd just think, Rangers and Engies only have ONE BWE with their e-specs.

Open season on medium armor, get your light and heavy armor while they’re hot.

Impact.2780:

Edit: Just did a quick check to be sure, and it turns out it’s the same travel distance as a normal dodge after all. This is surprising because both myself and a friend yesterday swore it was a longer distance, and it really affected the flow of our combat. He even stuck by that when he switched to duel me on another class. I wonder what it is that makes it feel like you’re going further, because I swear it messes up positioning. Perhaps it’s the cast time and or after cast? If so, great, please fix that and it’s two birds with one stone!

I know exactly what you’re talking about, I checked this thread again to see if anyone said anything about it. I’m assuming it’s the aftercast because on normal dodge I can position while staying within swing range of my target pretty consistently. With the new dodge animations, I found myself have to trot a step or two back or forward to get within swing range again and that I couldn’t position on any directional side of my target reliably.

Most of it has been mentioned already.

I got a feel of what I should be achieving in a fight and it’s not so much to stay in a fight but to jump in, shake up the balance, then jump out and repeat sporadically.

Pulling that off using all of the skills needed had a terrifying feeling of stop and go during a fight that made me feel like I was being controlled rather than controlling myself or the fight and I think that has more to do with the animations syncing up with the effects duration, even so, none of it should feel like a root.

1. Weakening Charge was sluggish and made me feel more pulled by something else but it wasn’t that bad for me.

2. Bounding Dodger as everyone else pointed out gives that same feeling of being rooted or controlled.

3. Auto animation doesn’t feel bad when I’m in the thick of it but one on one is where it feels like the staff is not in my hands.

I like the feeling of what the weapon, utilities, and traits should be after all of the circles and squares are fitted to the right hole.

Grumwulf.9602:

The niche it could have filled was as a brawling weapon. Get in, stay in, using blocks and blinds and do good melee aoe. But it is built as an in and out sort of weapon but the sword does that already, and some stealth builds too such as pistol dagger. I see dodgy builds using sword not staff.

That’s unfortunate being that the feedback here seems to be that a lot of this elite specialization from weapon to utility to traits limits movement somehow and doesn’t handle multiple targets very well. I’m sure the dev knows and will clean some stuff up before launch. Some of what is being described here is making me cringe, largely how the animations are being described and how stop and go everything is, like one of those frustrating dreams where you get in a fight and can’t hold steady or land a hit.

Have different tabs open for metabattle, the wiki, your favorite build calculator, and another for looking up vids and for asking google specific questions which will probably give you links to this forum. Now you can reference what someones post is talking about quickly and see what effects from tooltips do and get a good visual of everything together. I like to limit my searches to past month though to slim results down to more current game builds.

Rin.1046:

…
A blast finisher would be way too OP…

That would turn us into dancing monkeys for commanders.

darkaheart.4265:

so i guess ill try this for now and mess around with Acro and DA until i get good(and like the trait line), then ill upgrade to pack runes and see if its worth the change from ferocity to power and change the sigil of acc to sigil of blood

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsY4al0MhKnYpTw7JQ/EH+ElvJqioYHAv2Z2TrWoNB-T1BBwAYV+B4kAgT9nU6Hg8EAWu/wZlgBAQA4m38m3sNLFgg6sA-w

BTW has anyone tried s/d with mesmer runes? i feel like the stun from sword could be annoying but idk if it could be viable

I’m not one to critique builds so just a couple of questions that might help me in turn. If you’re going Tricks for condition clear and you already have the critical uptime, why not go with Flanking strikes for another possible condition clear and a little Haste while you’re already hopped up on Fury? Comparably, if you’re already going with Thrill of the crime why not pimp out Steal all the way with Bountiful Theft and switch around a few things for killing speed?

Also, if you are going Tricks condition clear and cooldown reduction and not full killing speed, why not take out that signet synergy and put Scorpion wire or maybe Roll for Initiative and get Basilik Venom instead? I’ve tried to use the other elites being S/D pretty much all the way through and BV seems the most consistent and applicable to what my roll is normally, though weapon set shouldn’t imply playing style, I’m only curious and I like to try out stuff people mention on this forum.

I jump back an forth between WvW and Silverwastes for the most part where that gunk really helps to thin out the herd. Dancing daggers keeps the heads ringing if the badguys are mostly rapid fire or if the other player is playing by sequence and blows their load without thinking of the stacks their piling up.

I’m actually going with Staff until I get the new staff skin or something better is put into the game. Staff is simple enough even though it’s a little caster like at the top but not too much.

Norn thieves kind of look like the Star Wars Kid but maybe sword/dagger #3 would look pretty awesome.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t get why people like Flanking Strikes…it’s such a bad trait. In order for this to be viable, the cooldown needs to be drastically reduced. In my opinion it should be either 15s or 20s cooldown…60s is just trashy.

36 seconds with Trickster, which also removes a condition since it gives Haste. I’m up front about it not being an optimal choice for what’s become a standard build and I have no math or any substantial evidence to proclaim it’s viability. I simply enjoy the way it feels when Haste goes off and with positioning, it fits into the stance of my build.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Idk if anyone’s posted this yet but this one tickles my fancy.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn8lCFmiNPBGOBkmiFqiy7CShSoLCCggcO7/+xH-TJhFABAcCAG4BAAeZgc2fAA

You did some key things for dodging, but then left out some key dodging traits or traits that take advantage of dodging and evades that could do so much in one to two actions and then you have a strong starting roll out for interrupts but then left out Pressure Striking for Trickster while Trickster isn’t getting much interaction with anything else. Admittedly I’m probably a good deal behind most others because of limited casual play time but a few things feel disconnected but close to putting together a fitted build.

Dahkeus.8243:

I’d really like to justify using staff, but I think the condi removal on dodge will be a necessity for a non-stealth build, which kills the only trait which boosts staff usage (staff master).

I’m hoping to be able to get some good usage out of something like this though (tr/da/dd): http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcF2AGoBmw~

I keep going back and forth on decisions like that, this one in particular is one of them, you have to soften up one aspect of a build to strengthen another with these traits so currently I’m sticking with Flanking Strikes -> Trickster with Withdraw as my heal for one condition clear and Flanking Strikes Haste as another, unless that’s changed, I haven’t had much time to play lately. I know DDvl has a better condition clear that doesn’t take up utility slots but I want to give Staff a decent go at it.

I know in general it’s supposed to be better to take Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft but I haven’t used those in awhile in my Acro build anyway and am liking the feel of Flanking Strikes after getting a grip on positioning to only tag the back or side when I want. Mostly I’m just hardening myself for using Staff which might not hold up to other weapons sets but the staff and this trait line are exactly what I had wanted in the Thief since before launch I’m all in no matter how it pans out.

Gear will probably matter towards performance while not making the lack of some best in slot gear impossible.

babazhook.6805:

No problem. That said I have been weighing Acro against trickery for some time in MY own build and think acro will edge out trickery. The reason for this Is I am going to switch up to SOM as the heal and will lose an Immob break from withdraw. Don’t stop is a beautiful trait. Low cooldown and has saved me so many times. I just prefer to minimize the immobs and stuns that can be thrown my way and the intent is to have 2 immob breaks (rfi the other) along with the three stun breaks.

There’s a couple of choices of builds even within /DD/Tickery like deciding between condition removal or an interrupt build, which would require having Withdraw. I think the DD line will give plenty of opportunities to get out of lockdowns or prevent them while Acro might be better for feeding endurance if paired with DD. Overall I’d prefer DA/DD/Trickery to dodge and find placement between Stealing for interrupts.

I can’t put on that raid schedule straight jacket again, I can miss guild missions and not care much but missing my window for my raiding progression would pretty much cut my cord to a game. I’m sure it won’t be that locked down though.

Saddast.7538:

Just a clarification, channeled vigor is not standing, you can move using it, it was said in chat while the stream was going on.

That’s what I thought I saw in the video but everyone keeps saying you’re stationary. To me it looked like it plays out like Hide in Shadows heal except with a few different stipulations depending on what you want out of the heal.

Shinobi.3240:

Oh just watched the POI of Daredevil ….
As it looks like we will not be bound to shortbow for good mobility anymore.
Everything looks really promising so far.
Great job.
Hope they will take a look at the core trait lines again when they have a bit less stress going on.

Best regards

Still a bummer for me since I never really used the shortbow for mobility and rather for the evade but mostly for the blast finisher. I’d really like another blast finisher, even from pistol if needs be. Even with the new utilities along with the staff I’m still going to be bound to the short bow.

Quinci.5968:

With the introduction of Daredevil it would make the most sense for them to just get rid of the acrobatics line altogether and replace it with something else entirely. They could easily merge some of the current acro things into the DD line.

The Acro line can make way for a ranged trait line, unless that’s on the list of future elite specializations.

Because, whatever the other threads about it covered, that’s why.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s how it is. They showcase what people like so that they will pay for the $50 box only to either nerf them to the ground or take them away completely post launch.

Sure they may clean things up before launch, but the concern here is post launch where the real balancing takes place. I won’t be surprised if they add an effect like Revealed to counter excessive evades and call it Exhaustion.

I get what you’re saying and I can’t argue it, by the time they gives thieves shiny new CD’s with the top hits of the 90’s everyone else is syncing their playlists over the cloud.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I still have my doubts and of course I’m only speaking for myself.

As far as I can tell, these changes have been decided way before it is announced, thus no matter how much we try to reason with them, these changes are set in stone.

I suppose you “can” reason with them, but there’s no acknowledgement that they are even listening to reason.

They remind me of Mordin Solus from Mass Effect; “Objection noted, now do what I say”

I get that there are some independent issues with some skills or modifiers but this skill/trait/utility roll out is almost entirely what someone like myself had imagined the thief when the game was announced and is an idea that fits the mold almost feature for feature that people had proposed before, although more of the posts detailed unarmed combat with no weapon, but I don’t think the idea is something Anet ambushed us with, it’s very much what I’ve seen people asking for. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think we can’t reason for some technical changes to clean the spec up a bit before it launches.

Meridya.9352:

Kocoff.7582:

WOW THAT ELITE.

" Ennemies struck with this ability are finished"

goodbye basilik V.

Ummmm…

You’re missing something essential there. It only works on “Downed” enemies. It’s just an alternate way of finishing opponents and takes about the same amount of time to do the whole chain of skills as it does to just press ‘F’ and finish them like normal. The only time it will be faster is when the second skill in the chain causes the enemy to go into the downed state.

I’m sure it will play out disjointed for most people most of the time but if you work on your internal skill clock you can hold them still, put them into downed state, and then finish them in a few fluid movements you’re going to be doing anyway. It will be more of a sure thing the more you set it up to finish.

I can jump on the rage train with the rest of /thief but still think some of that stuff looks pretty f’n cool right.

How does this build translate into WvW for you? I use Swindlers instead of Hard to Catch right now and as long as there’s at least small group action of maybe three or more bad guys up to zerg numbers I can maintain a decent Steal and Stolen dance as long as I can pick out the right targets. I build bit by bit according to what I feel like I’m in need of and I can’t seem to edge out of this build to something more along the lines of what more adept players are using.

I’ve been trying to clean up Acro a bit to build more for not getting hit, but in WvW, I get hit a lot so Panic and Don’t Stop have been clinging to my trait build. Do you find those reactionary traits are simply needed for now or do you think the Acro line could be felt out a bit more or do those other traits just not come into play enough for you?

I don’t know if there’s a basic way but I use the LFG tool and find a group doing stuff on that map. Usually they put a percentage of map progression or a couple of words to label what they’re doing. Or you can make a group asking for what you want in a map and see if someone ferries you in.

I like shooting through gunk for confusion. Seems to be one of the few times lately I get to watch something burn fast enough to make me say “that felt good”.

babazhook.6805:

Well to be fair the trait kicks in on a successful evade and not just a dodge. In other words PW and Flanking strikes would shave time off.

I’ve been working in a sort of sequence for everything that gives an evade but Flanking Strikes seems to have the hardest time to activate when I tell it to. I also seem to get more reliable evades with Flanking Strikes when I use it un-targeted to sweep more of the action. I’m not sure if it’s because it covers more of the area the enemy effects are using or if it’s syncing the timing of Flanking Strikes animation better against the enemy effect.

Evades in general feel like they have to be used more deliberately to squeeze in just the tiniest hesitation to connect for the effect better because evading on instinct seems to be too fast and I overshoot. This is all anecdotal of course and it might be I’m fooling myself a bit because I’m confusing prediction for instinct. I also feel like adding a small lighted ping to the Steal skill whenever Swindlers trait activates would help average players like me understand it’s whole dynamic more in the way a better player already understands it.

Draknar.5748:

risk vs. reward. something, something, same sound bites from other posts

Thieves are the one class that are entirely about risk vs reward. It doesn’t matter how often a thief can go into stealth, likely if they’ve gone into stealth once they’re going to take off unless they can clearly see you’re not prepping yourself and leave yourself open right after the fight. Even as squishy as I am as another thief, I rarely get taken down right after a disengage because I’m expecting them to re-position for another juiced up backstab. This is the class where people either stick with it for the long haul or give it up quick for any of the other classes, all of whom are far more forgiving.

I use Acrobatics but I tend to get right into and around large fights as well as roam solo or hooking up with small groups. If you’re primarily roaming then you might want to use that standard build or at least start there and simmer it down as you play. DA,CS,Trick had little fat on it when I’d have to run down single targets or fell into small group fights, you’re mostly sniping key targets anyway roaming so you might as well make it quick.

I would start out by hooking up with the main pub squad for awhile and hang out in your servers voice comms even if you’re just following the crowd for awhile or at least read chat often enough, you’ll soak up most of the terminology and you’ll catch what commanders are asking for from different classes or different encounters. Inch by inch you’ll push your old limit a bit more and you’ll get a better idea of the stats you’ll need and what you can pull off in a fight.

Don’t over sell it, just let people know exactly what to expect if they represent, even if it’s not much more than a pleasant guild chat with a group formed once in awhile. Right now I’m looking for exactly what you described but for Maguuma server, so there’s people out there that want what your guild is, you just need to be clear about what your guild is so they can easily see it.

I’m thinking along the lines of an item that reduces our health by two thirds but gives us one initiative back at the cost of four initiative and one second of poison. Although, I’d like to just steal a bunch of endurance real quick so I can break out of a bad fight.

I’ve heard the arguments that the elite spec is supposed to be something different than what a class currently has but that doesn’t mean it has to be ridiculously different for the sake of being obviously different. We need a specialization that allows us a different approach to an encounter so we have more choices. I’m not going to say your idea is bad because it’s not, it’s really well thought out, but in my own opinion I can’t see a reason to use up a potentially awesome melee weapon for thieves to make a caster class.

Changing the stats now with the forge recipes can potentially be affordable if the item doesn’t have expensive runes or sigils in it. I wouldn’t be able to change my Runes of the Pack set because those runes just cost too much right now. I’ve been rolling out my Ascended set with the same stats I had before since I don’t think much will change about our builds and if things do change we’re mostly paying for stupidly expensive Runes and Sigils.

Thanks for putting these all in one thread, these traits keep coming up and I think most of us are kind of in limbo trying everything over and over again. Out of those traits in question I’m messing around with a stupid Improv-FStrikes-Trickster with Swindlers Eq build from rage resetting traits after milling over these three very decisions. I think Exec-ToC-BT is generally better but the other three might perform better for some people who use more active builds that have to maintain tempo like the Diablo 3 Monk skill Sweeping Winds, it’s effects can be maintained by being active but would die out if not.

I’ll just take everyone’s word for it as far as spvp goes and I’ll just assume I’m in a bad WvW matchup but I feel Acrobatics is pretty reliable right now and I haven’t been feeling the loss of dodging but it might be the way I conserved them before for positioning and all that. I almost don’t want to disagree with the disapproval of it because I don’t want to take away from others arguments for any possible fixes if most people feel it’s needed but I can’t lie either, Acrobatics has been pretty clutch for me lately. I’m just an average thief though and I’m sure I’m missing the big picture.