Guild Wars 2

Usagi.4835:

Aberrant.6749:

Usagi.4835:

This isn’t really so much a glaring problem for me as much as the supposed nerf to Beserker stats, BUT what? Dhuumfire for power specs? That doesn’t even make sense. As people have already said, it’s for hybrid and condition builds.

Also, I don’t really think, if the changes for Dhuumfire do go through, that it should even be in the GM tier anymore. Firstly, there’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder which is an identical trait, essentially, and which people have said (probably when used with skills) can be used to maintain perma burning.

Being able to apply burning post-patch now won’t be particularly inconvenient but tying it to DS/lifeforce will be.

Why does everyone bring IP into Dhuumfire convos… eng was balanced around having burning from the start, while it was added into necro after. It was a mistake to give this to necro and now instead of removing it and giving what necros need, they are trying to balance around that mistake. Two very different situations on two different classes.

Cool your jets, Mac. I’m not saying that they should make any changes to IP, rather I’m saying that Dhuumfire, if the change is going ahead, should be moved to Adept or Master tier because it will not be worth 30 points into Spite.

HEY I’M COOL OK. JUST DON’T BRING IP INTO THE CLUSTER KITTEN THAT IS DHUUMFIRE OK GG TY : )

10% longer in a fight like this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPZhPcyhPOg&list=FLch1FHsuRgkBJkp5o2g2mmw&index=8 – is unacceptable.

Usagi.4835:

This isn’t really so much a glaring problem for me as much as the supposed nerf to Beserker stats, BUT what? Dhuumfire for power specs? That doesn’t even make sense. As people have already said, it’s for hybrid and condition builds.

Also, I don’t really think, if the changes for Dhuumfire do go through, that it should even be in the GM tier anymore. Firstly, there’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder which is an identical trait, essentially, and which people have said (probably when used with skills) can be used to maintain perma burning.

Being able to apply burning post-patch now won’t be particularly inconvenient but tying it to DS/lifeforce will be.

Why does everyone bring IP into Dhuumfire convos… eng was balanced around having burning from the start, while it was added into necro after. It was a mistake to give this to necro and now instead of removing it and giving what necros need, they are trying to balance around that mistake. Two very different situations on two different classes.

I agree, they should be lowered 5% to keep the current balances intact. It’s not as big of a change than sigils were to kits, so it shouldn’t be as big of a change to keep it balanced.

Harper.4173:

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Let’s not forget that the OP here is biased.
Unlike the other classes warriors have no access to protection, stealth, reflects and all those other nasty things that other classes can abuse to stay alive.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Missile_Deflection

So you’re saying a warrior packs as much reflect as a mesmer/ guardian?
I’m not saying we don’t have it at all – but not as good as other classes.

Also I had forgotten to mention necro’s 2nd life bar. Fun stuff.

Honest question : why do people want this class destroyed? Would it make you guys feel better?!

Please show me where you’re reading that I said anything like that which would give you that idea. You were the one that said wars had no access to it. I showed you that they do. Don’t put words in my mouth to try to build a strawman argument please

@ MiLkZz.4789 – did you seriously just equate http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March which is an adept trait and also provides regen in defense with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Mods a master trait in kitten tools and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geomancer%27s_Freedom a master trait in kitten earth? I don’t think that’s quite a fair comparison…

I’m sure this change will also effect divinity runes/traveler runes, which will now add a whopping 10 ferocity. : /

My theory is that it’s because of stacking immobilize. I don’t think that this won’t be the last immobilize skill change/nerf we see in the future…. then later down the road they’ll change how immobilize works again… and the 3s will stick : /

Maybe all the glow balls were triggering seizures?

Only thing I could think of…

They didn’t mention anything like that though. They just said it would be brought down to the minor stat value. People aren’t presuming anything other than what was mentioned… hence people going what the kitten.

Harper.4173:

Let’s not forget that the OP here is biased.
Unlike the other classes warriors have no access to protection, stealth, reflects and all those other nasty things that other classes can abuse to stay alive.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Missile_Deflection

BlackDevil.9268:

Hm maybe because… mesmer doesn’t have any support feature besides veil and quickness? Which is like 1/100 of your gametime?
Yes ele got that because ele is actually balanced in WvW. Just like how mesmer should be.

O.k. ’’bro’’, Let’s see what I’ve done on my mesmer:
- I’ve been/am in the best GvG WvW guild of the game
- 2700h gametime, played mesmer from 1 month after release.
- I’ve been probably roaming more than 99% of the ppl watching the forum most likely
- I’ve pretty much tried every single build in raid, aswell as in roaming. That’s pretty much part of my trial-error to make builds like my roaming and raid one linked on my twitch channel and forum.

So yes, I think I got a bit better perspective than 99% of the mesmers on here. Especially on the WvW part.

Oh right, the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3-jm3mCHI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUhZzGGaedp6XFdS9iUBUBxw

This weeks ESL was even better to watch. Sizer just totally destroying helseth at the 2nd fight every time he was alive.

You don’t have problems against thieves because you fight kittenters that think backstab is super op in spvp and then die 2 seconds later or you’re using PU in spvp and you pretty much can’t hold any point.

Mes was the 2nd one I got to 80, started on her at about week 2. I like my mes a lot, got her bifrost and it’s a profession that I still play regularly. I’m not some mes hater by any means. I’ve done both roaming and large group stuff too

Yea it’s not a lot of your gameplay time, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing imo. Must every profession be good at constant largescale actions? If so they have a LOT of work on their hands. I don’t see what’s inherently wrong with veil/null/tw then more periphery type work after that.

I wasn’t trying to be condescending when I suggested using a class that offers different things for large scale fights if that’s what you’re looking for. Different classes are better at different things in different ways. I like that variety. It gives more options for different types of players. I like my thief and eng a lot as well, but there are better classes for that consistent large scale gameplay. That’s part of why I play ele as well. I don’t have a problem with that (and that’s where I think we differ greatly).

I agree backstab isn’t the best thing ever in sPvP and I don’t do high level sPvP so that might be why I don’t have problems against them.

I’ll be sure to check out the vids tomorrow

At the very least non-guard mobs (like random boars etc.) shouldn’t rally in WvW…

The rally problems are not nearly as bad in sPvP as it is in WvW imo…

Lucentfir.7430:

Condi spamming engies has always been up there with the mesmers as BS to face if they’re decent, you just need to know your skill layout cooldowns/roations etc. You just need to walk away, if you ever see one, otherwise get Condi AoE to death, while being kited around with lots of conditions..

I see you play guard and war… that might have something to do with eng’s and mesmers being hard (although an anti cond war setup with a lot of cc can do ok vs eng).

Some 1v1 profession matchups are just that way. The game isn’t balanced for 1v1 unfortunately.

You have a better chance vs an eng on war/guard than an eng does vs. a necro at least…

nicknamenick.2437:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

For warrior.. every patch we get is another + highly telegraphed skill on long casttime for warrior and zero for other classes

Necro could use better telegraphs as well, but that’s being talked about in another thread. Most of the telegraphs in this game are pretty good overall though imo.

What other skills do you think need better telegraphs?

Link to vid and I’ll watch it (prolly tomorrow with reset tonight and all). Overall I have very few problems with thief as mes… but build choices can make a large difference though, so I would need to see it.

Thief should have more mobility than a mes. That’s not to say that mes isn’t VERY good with in combat mobility though.

It makes total sense. You don’t seem to like the group support features that mesmer brings…. ele has a lot what I think you’re asking for in a mesmer.

Asking for mes to have more aoe damage etc. while keeping all of what it has now just sounds OP as all kitten (not saying that you’re asking for that)… and I know there are many that don’t want to have mesmer’s dueling side nerfed.

Almost everyone thinks they are right 100% bro… that doesn’t mean much to say stuff like that. If anything it just makes you look very stubborn.

Tbh… I agree with the deceptive evasion nerf. In its current form almost everyone would still take it even if it was a GM trait. It needed to be changed or bumped up to GM. My mes is a little sad, but I totally understand their reasoning.

Julie Yann.5379:

Muchacho.2390:

It doesnt matter how much they nerf it. It will always be a terrible skill from a game design perspective (like many other things in this game). No healing skill should be passiv.

I still think the signet should have worked opposite of what it does now. Passive give some minor effect (condi cleanse or a bonus to vitality), activating gives a base heal + 15 to 20 sec regen. It would make more sense that way.

I totally agree. I’m fine with a passive heal, but it shouldn’t be the main thing. That sort of design yields far more skillful gameplay that way.

The active should be the stronger heal to make wars use it. 31 hps reduction means that the war would still need to have 100% pois up-time on him to get the main effect from pois vs being able to apply pois when the active part is used in order to reduce it by a third (not a lot of skillful gameplay there). Wars have a lot of options to reduce/remove conds which furthers the problem. In addition to that they are lowering some poison durations (eng/thief).

I counter it multiple times every single day on my eng alone…

It’s not that other classes can’t do it as well (I do it when I’m on my mes/guard a lot as well) and idk why more players don’t bother to learn how to do it.

I wasn’t saying c&d was more forgiving, but that the suggested change would be vs. the current version as it would drain less ini. It would be easier to counter though.

The risk is being interrupted and having spent a lot of ini in the process with no reward. Stopping a bp->hs will wreck a thief and force them to start popping utilities to make up for it. It would be more forgiving if they didn’t have to hs through the field.

They also lose out on the c&d damage (doesn’t apply in sPvP where c&d needs a buff to make up for the higher risk though).

BlackDevil.9268:

Thief was never designed to be a teamplayer proffession whereas mesmer actually was.
But like you say, mesmer is stronger than thief in almost everything. Yes, almost. Thief is stronger in tPvP than mesmer and it should never lose a 1v1 when the mesmer is player a tpvp shatter build.

Here we come to the same problem again, PU builds. Like listed above we got nerfed to hell in raid perspective. But what did we get back? Right, more roaming traits, which PU is 1 of them.

‘’Mesmer does have amazing aoe utility though. That’s part of what sets it apart from other classes.’’

Sorry… what? Amazing? That amazing to set us apart from other classes?
Okay let’s see:
Our main skills we use in raid are:
1. Null Field – Necro’s have a Well that’s better than our null field. Itpractically does the same, but also makes the boons into conditions.

2. Feedback – Atm, when fighting against guilds, you will reflect almost nothing. But when you do, it’s #1 spam of either their eles or necro’s cause they have everything on cooldown. The amount of damage you do with those skills is like really, really low since mesmers are now forced to go really tanky, whereas the damage is based on your statts and your traits.
You will probably notice more of the retaliation you get than the raid notices something of your feedback.

3. Veil – This, seriously, this is (if we talk about in-combat) one of the 2 skills that sets us apart from other professions. 2 skills. That’s mesmer.

4. Time Warp – The 2nd skill that sets us apart from other prof. But actually if you think about it, it’s an elite. Idk if Elites should set you apart from other prof in raids. It’s not like: ‘’Oh he got that elite which is better than that other dudes elite so I’m gonna pick him’’. With a cooldown of 210 seconds I would never rely on a mesmer making a huge change in a battle.

Lets see…. What else… Hm… Nope, that was it pretty much. 4 skills, all utility’s. None of them besides veil is better than other utility’s other classes have.

So we come to the same topic again veilbot!

You know, I’ve been running tankier because I’ve had enough of my leader being a kitten when I die. But it’s still funny. Even when I go tankier, I notice that I only die when my guardian in my pt is not at the fight or died earlier than me. I can only just bomb a little bit longer, but deal less damage.
So it’s funny to see we rely so much on 1 prof to make our own prof workable.

We need something that doesn’t require you to go squishy to actually deal damage.
We need something that other professions don’t have yet or which they are not as good at as us.
We need something that sets us apart from other professions, veil only is not doing that
We need something that makes our prof fun in raids/zergs again. Atm I almost fall asleep of boringness, how epic the fight may be. I only get satisfied atm if I hear sac complimenting my placement of skills, so I get the illusion that I’m doing something usefull. Isn’t that funny? I pretty much get mesmerised as a mesmer…

Venom share is the thief way of doing groups. It was just poorly designed.

I disagree that thief is better than a mes in tpvp. They both have their roles… but in a face to face I would give the advantage to mesmer.

It’s amazing that mes gets TW + veil + feedback (this just isn’t as useful due to the meta)… all of which are ethereal fields (a nice plus)… all in one package.

Tbh sounds to me like mes just isn’t for some people… might want to switch to ele for meteor etc.

Curse Drew.8679:

Sheesh, Food extender. That’s hardly convinient, you’ll still have to click the food and watch the timer to keep it ongoing.

Where’s my fridge i can throw a stack of food into and it auto consumes?

^THIS is what I want. Idk if a fridge is the right thing for it though. Tapeworm? Tapeworm.

Josh Davis.6015:

Very apt timing for this thread to appear as I’ve recently been enlisted by the WvW team.

What does this mean for you guys? I’ll be working closely with Devon and crew to act as the liaison between our development team and you – raising community concerns with the team, finding answers, being the good/bad guy, and whatever else!

For those wondering, I play engineer, I prefer to roam, I’m currently on JQ, and yes, I take bribes in the form of cookies.

Great to see more people working on WvW!!! It certainly could use the attention

I’ll have to hunt you down on my eng if TC ever faces JQ again >: )

Nova Stiker.8396:

Aberrant.6749:

Eng just got hit with nerfs last update… and has been consistently nerfed since launch… it’s most certainly not stronger than ever… I would rank it upper middle overall atm.

It would depend on how IP was nerfed …again… as to how viable eng would be after.

Engineers don’t need nerfs.

Engineers need fixing, the amount of crit-procs is unacceptable, being heavily reliant on them for damage chance.

If they do this I really hope they seriously listen to veteran player input on their changes. They aren’t known to be the best at this sort of thing xD

Jitters.9401:

There are certain ways of playing them which is by far overpowered against any class. There needs to be a balance and fairness across the board.

Eng >>>>> Thief.

Thief isn’t the best 1v1 class… it’s not the best small group or large group class. They are the best scout/yak slap/door tap class.

Thief is very strong vs inexperienced players (the majority of WvWers) and is easy to use. However along with the low skill floor it has a low skill ceiling. Other classes get better once the mutual skill levels rise.

You can stop a thief from stealthing in the first place (and wreck their ini in the process) other than with the blinding powder utility. Why should it reveal on block as well? That’s silly. You had your chance and you weren’t able to use it. That’s your bad. That in no way warrants you to such an easy 2nd chance to counter them.

Eng just got hit with nerfs last update… and has been consistently nerfed since launch… it’s most certainly not stronger than ever… I would rank it upper middle overall atm.

It would depend on how IP was nerfed …again… as to how viable eng would be after.

Thread summery:

OP: healing signet too strong.
Dev: we need to make the active used more.
Wars: passive to remain about the same, but have the active massively buffed so that it gets used more.

Yup, this seems about right for a warrior thread.

- . -

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gas_Mask_Skin

Since this was so popular, I wouldn’t be surprised if they put in something similar later for 500 gems.

I used mine to make myself an Iron man outfit.

Asura for the size/smaller animations or human female (dress her like a strumpet and people might think she’s a thief at a glance).

Every 3rd strike would make it totally independent of your crit chance though (less need for pre)… not sure if good for balance…

I think you mean Veil + TW + null field and then act as periphery (portal is usually just needed if you’ve hidden away in a tower/keep). Yes I do enjoy that.

No, mes shouldn’t be a med armor class… no light armor doesn’t inherently mean you should have large aoe damage… nor that all that med classes can do in gw2 is 1v1 (this isn’t the other games you have played). Mesmer does have amazing aoe utility though. That’s part of what sets it apart from other classes.

Light armor doesn’t mean you’ll be squishy… nor does heavy armor mean you’ll be tanky. There is a lot more that goes into how much punishment you can take than just that.

It’s fine as is imo. Mes is metter than thief in a duel… better than a thief in large groups… mes shouldn’t be the first priority when it comes to this.

Some classes are better at roaming/small play, others at larger scale things. Why is this inherently a problem when things seem to be designed this way?

It should be bugfixed.

If rangers need changes in other areas that should be done too… but I agree that this is redic.

That would wind up being quite a buff though as you would get it sort of for free.

Adding it in and then trying to balance around it has caused so many problems…

Siphoned power is blah though lol.

sminkiottone.6972:

Are you planning on balance all the game modes of gw2 or just PvP and PvE ? WvW could use some love

Ya know… it’s been so rare that they’ve balanced anything for WvW I didn’t even think to ask this…

I totally agree.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Added a cooldown and reducing it’s duration by half, it’s still very powerful. Making it even weaker would render it useless.
Making it stronger is not an option.

Agreed. I’m not saying the nerfs weren’t OK (although bumping it up a tier did ironically kill builds in the name “build diversity”), but further nerfing would just trash it.

Josh Davis.6015:

New stat combinations for PvP (amulets)

Oh please say that includes having more than one amulet and one jewel to customize my stats with…

Icons for when traits are on CD would indeed be welcomed. Some of them are quite lengthy and expecting a player to know exactly when they come off of cd is a bit : /

IMO a short smoke screen would be a better replacement than just a smoke field. If you change last refuge to a smoke field you kill the interaction with Infusion of Shadow, it doesn’t immediately help vs ranged, and the thief has to expend more ini to hearseeker through the field to gain stealth. A little love in the form of a short screen > field would be nice.

Also Devs please consider eng’s reserved mines for a similar adjustment -

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reserve_Mines

In some ways it’s worse… as the mines stick around and give the opponent the option of triggering one at any point to cause a reveal : /

I would prefer #2 for balance reasons. Being able to dodge bomb people while being stealthed could be problematic in that regard.

I agree reserve mines are kitten worthless… at least with the utility version you can choose to detonate them… instead of oh hey big flashy lights telling the world I just hit 25%… and they need to chose to walk over them for them to do anything at all… which can be used to their own advantage to reveal you if they choose… great…

It just creates similar problems to thief’s last refuge.

IP has been around since the start. Then it was nerfed… and no one was complaining about it anymore… then it was nerfed again…

Why is it being complained about again now?

Oh ’cause necro has a stronger cond burst now. Makes perfect sense. /sarcasm

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Aberrant.6749:

Eng’s #2 is worse than necro’s #2 though… necro’s fear can’t be body blocked and moves the target away which delays the first stomp more (eng pull has the shortest cc time of all similar downed skills). I would put their downed states on par with each other for horridness.

Yeah but Engi downstate #3 is better than Necro downstate #3

In my opinion Downstate Skills (2 and 3 are in this order)

Downstate #2:

Thief
Ele
mesmer
Guardian

= Warrior
= Engineer
= Ranger
= Necro

Downstate #3:

Thief
Warrior
Mesmer
Engineer
Ranger
Ele
Necro

Downstate #2 Thief, Ele and Mesmer are by far the strongest, Guardian follows thanks to it being an AoE the rest are just terrible Guardian still suffers the same issues as the others but at least they can use it – Fear for example is useless against Stealth and Stability

Downstate #3 I think again Thief is top, yay for MORE stealth -.- Warrior is very strong in the right situations and Mesmer one can deal some serious damage Engineer follows with a ASoE Knockback, not amazing thanks to stealth and stability but still very useful at times. Under water Ranger pet heal is simply insane and most likely broken but on land, i dunno Rangers never seem to last long enough in downstate to actually use it, i have seen it ONCE and that was under water. Ele comes next as it is useful if they are not on top of you, damage is kinda low and it has no use if they are standing on top of you. Necro at the bottom the Damge is terrible and the poison is useless.

Ranger #2 > the others in the =‘s IMO as it’s an AOE… to me it’s on par with guardian.

Agreed eng downed #3 is better than necro #3… but tbh… in either case it doesn’t really matter because the eng’s #2 cc’s for such a short time it’s more likely you’ll have even less total time in the downed state than a necro.

The #2’s are critical to keeping you alive longer. If the #2 fails you’re toast right off the bat. Eng’s #3 isn’t so amazing to warrant the total rubbish that is the #2… nor is necro’s #2 so amazing to justify the rubbish #3.

One could argue that war’s #3 is good enough to balance their poor #2… but even that’s a stretch imo.

We’re comparing rubbish to rubbish… both are still rubbish in the end.

hooma.9642:

wrong! only ele can deny the stomp through mistform. if u cant stomp a thief or mesmer in first try then its a l2p sorry dude.

That’s totally dependent on what class you’re playing. Not all classes get a teleport that doesn’t interrupt your stomp animation… With mesmer not everyone has access to stealth… and any target around will do… it doesn’t need to be the stomper himself.

…thus not “l2p” if you’re on one of those classes…

Eng’s #2 is worse than necro’s #2 though… necro’s fear can’t be body blocked and moves the target away which delays the first stomp more (eng pull has the shortest cc time of all similar downed skills). I would put their downed states on par with each other for horridness.

Nah nades aren’t too strong, it’s just mortar that sucks.

They said in an interview that there would be a visual to go with the legendary trinkets.

You might find this interesting and very relevant:

I found that nades didn’t get very strong until you were able to put 30 points into the power tree for the extra 50% damage.

Personally I went with static discharge for the lower levels then swapped to bombs/nades later on.

I totally agree with getting speedy kits + rocket boots asap lol.

Cufufalating.8479:

Personally I’d just make every classes down state the same.

Every class should have the guardians #1, #2, there should be no #3, and of course everyone has #4.

Or even let people choose their down-state skills.. I dont care. As long as everyone gets the same choices.. because at the moment it is a bit annoying that you are stuck with your classes downed skills and thats that, and of course leads to imbalance. In zerg battles ele’s downed state is better than everyones by a big margin.. in 1v1s ele’s downed skills are useless but the rangers are really good. Classes like necro are the losers and dont have good downed skills anywhere.

Should just be the same.

Gorni.1764:

Why don’t we just make all classes the same? Everybody should play warrior so there is no flame anymore. Everyone will be happy right?

I like them being different, but I would like them to also be better balanced.

You could put different spins on each while it still having the same overall function. Say if eng #2 used rocket boots that blew you backwards… that would be very close to ele #2 in effect, but have a very eng flare to it (just an example).

Tom.8029:

These professions have these mechanics (Mobility, protection, regeneration, stealth, etc) because they need them as a result of their lower health and lower armor to survive.

Here’s an extreme scenario. A warrior and an elementalist are both standing next to each other with armor on, the same set up (attributes) and no traits for anything like protection or regeneration any of that stuff. Then there’s an enemy between them that attacks both targets every time it hits.

Now since the warrior has heavy armor and higher health, the warrior will die after the elementalist. So tell me how armor and base health don’t affect how quickly you die. Like I’ve said, every moment in the fight matters.

If you’re talking pure facetank ability then yes the war is superior in that regard. However… back in reality… ele has a lot more escapes/heals than the war does. While you can eat more damage as a war you can avoid and recover more on an ele.

Tom.8029:

An example of how armor affects the game. In heart of the mists, there are those 3 golems that you can attack to see how much damage you can inflict. There’s a Heavy, Medium, and Light armor golem. Now why would they have them if there wasn’t a notable difference in the attacks on each type of armor. The armor differences don’t mean you’ll die instantaneously, but they certainly play a role.

When it comes to players and not golem killing… there is a LOT more that goes into how well you’ll survive than armor type. That’s why a full glass thief (despite having lower armor) can survive better than a full glass guard…

Tom.8029:

“If you’re dying fast it’s player error (build/gear/gameplay), not the class itself.”

So learn to deal with elementalists and their vapor form. You’re going to use any ridiculous claim to support your opinion anyway. And it is ridiculous. :P

Oh I have dealt with it for months and months. Doesn’t mean it’s not the strongest downed state while others are obviously weak. That’s why they need to be balanced. Balanced =/= just deal with it lol.

Take off the swiftness from it and call it a day.

miriforst.1290:

^the thing is, it does require active play.

whether it could be done better mechanic wise is another, but believe me its not passive if you actually want to get some use of it.

Depends on how heavy cond they are… you might be able to just have that and backpack regen (totally passive) and be totally fine. There isn’t enough play/counter play to these traits.

If it was just prot/regen it would be fine… but swiftness tossed in there… is kinda funky. I don’t mind the vigor on toss H as much though.