Perhaps they perceive the issue they present as only existing in PvP?
spvp does not mechanically award game time
pve does not mechanically award game time
wvw does mechanically award game timeall game modes award player skill to varying extents and of course if you play any game mode long enough you’ll get more rewards. But im talking about coded systems which reward you simply because your rank/playtime is high with more rewards/easier rewards, independently of what you do in each game mode or how well you play. (basically it awards you more because of your OVERALL play time, even if you are standing there)
wvw system, mechanically the system is fair in the sense that it is the same grind for everyone, the rules do not change from player to player. x number of hours = x number of rewards. But it is a bell curve as i will explain next.
wvw system is unfair in the sense that the penalties associated for new players translates to increased required time spent in order to earn the same rewards as “veteran wvwers.” this can be solved by balancing it or just letting everyone earn the same pips. That way time spent playing wvw = fair amount of rewards gained for the time put in.
If they want to retroactively go back and award everyone (which is what they said they wanted to do). They should not reward “veteran” players by giving them less grind per week to recieve rewards. This makes “veteran” rewards directly penalize newer/lower rank players because in essence that is the reward, penalizing others. The reward in essence is not being handicapped like newer players. This is detrimental and dissuasive to the wvw player base as a whole.
when you take this system and compare it to all other game modes, its completely an outlier and makes no sense to the cohesiveness that is gw2.
The game rewards us for time spent. This is by design. Just the act of having spent the few seconds needed to log in more times than a new player means that I will have accumulated more rewards than he. Killing mobs in queensdale alone , requiring no skill, and little effort, for almost 5 years before someone who joins the game today would mean being able to access rewards faster than they can.
One of the complaints I have seen since launch is that the game does not reward skilled play sufficiently compared to rewards for just showing up and spending time.
In GW2 time > almost anything else. You may not like this, but it isnt unique to wvw and it isnt new. It just happens that this instance involves a situation where some people, who havent spent the time, want the rewards for doing so.
Everyone who puts in the same amount of time, effort, etc earns the same number of pips.
A new player who pushes his rank to 500 will earn the same number of pips as a player who has worked his way to rank 500 over the course of a year.
Asking that new wvwers earn the same number of pips as veterans without spending the same requisite time and effort is asking that new players be given an advantage over veterans.
“I know that it took veterans 1/2/3/4 years to accumulate the prerequisites for a certain level of reward, but I want that same level of reward immediately, without putting in the time and effort”
your acting like i think the system is “unfair” i never said it was unfair, its dissuasive to players the carrot is set too high, all im asking is that they lower it.
You might want to edit your original post to more accurately reflect your intentions then because it supports my comment and contradicts yours.
the system is fair for people in wvw when you are thinking about wvw in a vaccum and ignoring the rest of the game. If the entire game was wvw then yes everyone grind gets you your ranks and you reap your rewards and thats it. But anet has mutliple game modes and a long history of doing things a certain way.
When you compare the wvw reward system to the rest of the game it gives players in wvw an unfair advantage in terms of time played over players who dont play the game mode. No other game mode rewards this type of time commitment like wvw does. its unfair and dissuasive to new players or even people who have around rank 1k, which is why i suggested it should be brought in line with other game modes and made comparable, or i suggested that other game modes should get the same system of time played = rewards (although I dont like this). it rewards straight up play time while severely handicapping those who are just starting out, for no good reason. No other game mode does this. In that sense its unfair in relation to the rest of the game.
I thought it wasnt about fair vs unfair?
BTW, in PvE thousands of hours spent in game generally gives an advantage in acquiring desireables over someone brand new to the game. Someone starting today might need months spent farming to acquire sufficient mats or currency for rewards that a veteran could buy on a momentary whim.
PvE, PvP, WvW…all include rewards based on time investment.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
Everyone who puts in the same amount of time, effort, etc earns the same number of pips.
A new player who pushes his rank to 500 will earn the same number of pips as a player who has worked his way to rank 500 over the course of a year.
Asking that new wvwers earn the same number of pips as veterans without spending the same requisite time and effort is asking that new players be given an advantage over veterans.
“I know that it took veterans 1/2/3/4 years to accumulate the prerequisites for a certain level of reward, but I want that same level of reward immediately, without putting in the time and effort”
your acting like i think the system is “unfair” i never said it was unfair, its dissuasive to players the carrot is set too high, all im asking is that they lower it.
You might want to edit your original post to more accurately reflect your intentions then because it supports my comment and contradicts yours.
Archer.
I like archery. I like medium armor “skirmisher” style aesthetics and play. I am not fond of pet classes. I dislike just how much of my ranger’s performance is tied up in the class mechanic of pets.
I detest the degree to which aesthetics determines performance for ranger pets.
Everyone who puts in the same amount of time, effort, etc earns the same number of pips.
A new player who pushes his rank to 500 will earn the same number of pips as a player who has worked his way to rank 500 over the course of a year.
Asking that new wvwers earn the same number of pips as veterans without spending the same requisite time and effort is asking that new players be given an advantage over veterans.
“I know that it took veterans 1/2/3/4 years to accumulate the prerequisites for a certain level of reward, but I want that same level of reward immediately, without putting in the time and effort”
I really like the male medium HotW armor and both the nightmare and aecalonian weapons. The ascalonian performers light a4mor is pretty nice too.
Does this mean that, since a power build might be able to do 12k damage in the first second or so of an engagement, a condi build, no longer designed to have increased sustain to offset doing its damage over time, would need to be able to do 12k in one second, with no ramp up time, as well? Zero to 10k or more in one second, the very first second, or less, as is possible with power builds?
It seems as if, since condi in the proposed system uses stats mirroring berzerker, the alpha strike potential of condi would have to be equal to that of power otherwise power’s ability to one shot, negating potential counterattack would be inherently superior to condi, which normally requires some amount of ramp up a d does its damage over time.
If condi does 10k damage or more in the first second of the fight, how much is the damage over time aspect?
I never get my diamomd chest. Im okay with that. Do you feel Im screwed too?
What’s your point?
You can choose to care about it or not, that doesn’t change the fact that there are legit players who wants to get into wvw, both for the mode and the rewards, and are getting discouraged by how unwelcoming this system (and some of its players) is.
It seems, to me at least, that his point is that its a bit presumptious to attempt to speak for others who are quite capable of speaking for, defending, themselves if they feel that there is cause.
And, here’s why completion of masteries matters:
If someone buys the game now, they don’t get LS S3. So, in order to complete all the masteries, they must either complete every single mastery point except adventures, or they must do some adventures to offset the ones they don’t/can’t complete.
Or spend some gold or real money on gems for LS3.
Mastery points are the same for HoT whether they come from the expansion maps or the LS3 maps. Considering that you have to max masteries from both to get XP, I don’t see why there needs to be a distinction.
Because the point I was making is that one needs to collect a bunch of adventure MPs to complete HoT.
I agree that they’ve done a good thing by having more MPs available on the LS S3 maps. But, it’s not enough (yet) to offset the mistake made in HoT. (“Mistake” is in my opinion.) Plus, it requires playing through LS S3 in order to complete HoT. That just feels wrong.
You will never completely complete HoT without doing adventures. Depending on what you consider being complete anyway. But since Adventures ARE a part of HoT, and you’re talking about “completing” HoT.
It will always be, “I completed HoT! …except Adventures.”
This is like saying you’ll never complete core Tyria without getting shield master,
Adventures are on the map. Weapon mastery isnt,
You can advance shield master, in theory, without ever performing a shield kill in core tyria.
Scouts are on the map but you dont’ have to complete the scouts to complete a zone. Merchants are on the map. There are things on the map that you can interact with that don’t need to be interacted with.
They don’t count toward map complete. You can do them or you can ignore them, in the same way you ignore a trading post, crafting station, or anything else on the map.
More to the point, if I complete a hero point or mastery point, it’s marked off on the map. That doesn’t happen with an adventure.
I was just pointing out the problem with that one comparison.
Overall, I believe that the devs try to provide a variety of things to do in a given map, not so much because they necessarily expect anyone to do everything bht because they hope that it will allow most people to find something to have fun with on that map. Any one of us, as players, can make decisions about what constitutes completing a map for ourselves. That isnt really a reflection of anything other than our own preferences.
You still have access to everything you paid for.
You seem to think that paying for one product, the expansion, entitles you to other products, LS3 chapters, for free. You are mistaken. The LS3 chapters were offered to you in return for one of three types of currency. Your choice on how to pay. You could pay with time by spending ten seconds logging into the game during a chapter’s release, or you could convert gold to gems, or you could spend real money.
If a product is offered for sale and you choose to not purchase it, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Your tomato analogy is a bit disconnected from reality. If you go back to the market where you paid for your tomato, and expect free cucumbers, you are bound to be disappointed.
Mastery points are the same for HoT whether they come from the expansion maps or the LS3 maps. Considering that you have to max masteries from both to get XP, I don’t see why there needs to be a distinction.
Because the point I was making is that one needs to collect a bunch of adventure MPs to complete HoT.
I agree that they’ve done a good thing by having more MPs available on the LS S3 maps. But, it’s not enough (yet) to offset the mistake made in HoT. (“Mistake” is in my opinion.) Plus, it requires playing through LS S3 in order to complete HoT. That just feels wrong.
You will never completely complete HoT without doing adventures. Depending on what you consider being complete anyway. But since Adventures ARE a part of HoT, and you’re talking about “completing” HoT.
It will always be, “I completed HoT! …except Adventures.”
This is like saying you’ll never complete core Tyria without getting shield master,
Adventures are on the map. Weapon mastery isnt,
You can advance shield master, in theory, without ever performing a shield kill in core tyria.
If you’re downed, I’ll do what I can to get you back on your feet.
If you’re dead, you’re on your own.
It’s bosses like The Shatterer where dead people annoy me the most. The waypoint is right there, I can SEE it! And yet they’re demanding to be rezzed.
Yeah, people choosing to lie there dead at the Arah event bother me. The waypoint is just a few feet away, and yet some people demand a rez.
What bothers me about this, is that you can unlock bouncing shrooms or even gliding without using them.
Didn’t you learn to ride a bike ,without ever riding a bike, when you were little?
Did you ever sing a song without knowing the lyrics?
All the time. Annoys the heck out of my wife…
You are on the same server but are you on the same megaserver shard?
I thought the Devs stated that defeated characters did not count in scaling long ago.
I seem to remember a statement to that effect as well.
People who are AFK don’t move, don’t they? Why not just boot the toon if they don’t move for more than 5 minutes? Of course it won’t stop bots if they move a bit, but it should make things a tad more obvious.
A 5 minute AFK timer? Do you realize how many false positives you would get?
I keep track of a lot of stuff on various spreadsheets while playing. Just because I have not jostled the mouse in 5 minutes has no bearing on if I am actively playing. Meanwhile someone who has a bot that knows to send some movement every 5 minutes gets a pass?
Agreed. I can spend an hour trying different dye combinations with different armor pieces to find something I like. I cant even see my character while looking at the hero and preview screens. It would be really annoying to have to constantly move my character during this process to avoid being kicked.
Like tapping a single key once every five minutes will really harm you.
I didnt say it would harm me. Perhaps you misread my post, or quoted tbe wrong person?
People who are AFK don’t move, don’t they? Why not just boot the toon if they don’t move for more than 5 minutes? Of course it won’t stop bots if they move a bit, but it should make things a tad more obvious.
A 5 minute AFK timer? Do you realize how many false positives you would get?
I keep track of a lot of stuff on various spreadsheets while playing. Just because I have not jostled the mouse in 5 minutes has no bearing on if I am actively playing. Meanwhile someone who has a bot that knows to send some movement every 5 minutes gets a pass?
Agreed. I can spend an hour trying different dye combinations with different armor pieces to find something I like. I cant even see my character while looking at the hero and preview screens. It would be really annoying to have to constantly move my character during this process to avoid being kicked.
So we basically agree that base pip needs to be boosted. I’d be fine with 20 hours, it’s significantly better than the current situation and still requires a big investment.
Everyone wins!
Instead of increasing base pips I would like to see bonus pips for participation tier. A hardcore wvwer will be at tier six pretty consistently and so receive the same number of pips they do now. A more casual player who has fewer hours per week to play, but who really seeks to contribute when he does play, would see an increase in pip generation. This might also disincentivize afk pip farming, particularly if the outnumbered pip bonus were trimmed back some.
Something that can help, potentially, is a choice of food and/or utility buff. Something that adds some vitality, or health gain, to restore health while you dodge, block, or evade can be a nice addition to an otherwise high damage glass build.
Dont be afraid to gear a bit less glassy than is often recommended in pve while learning to melee on a squishy class.
Remember… there is no monthly fee. You do not have to buy expansions. You don’t have to buy Gems. Gemstore is how the employees get paid…you get updates and so forth BUT you don’t really have to pay a dime if you don’t want to.
“It’s okay to fleece us because we don’t have to buy it.” Nearly everything is incredibly overpriced if you look past the gem number and see how much actual money those gems would cost you.
You cant be fleeced. You cant be overcharged. By definition items cant be overpriced if people are willing to buy at that price.
The amount of actual money I would need to spend on gems to get the items is zero. Its pretty hard to believe an argument that zero dollars is overpriced.
My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:
- New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.
or
- ANet not add any more adventures to the game.
Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of not linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.
Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.
What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?
I’d be perfectly fine with that. A skin unique to an adventure would be an intrinsic reward. At that point, it would be no different to any other unique skin attached to specific content, and people would have the choice of whether gaining the skin was worth doing the content.
Agreed.
I wish we could use Finishers on more PvE mobs. I have many, many, many Finishers, and I would love to use them.
This.
Dialogue in GW1 & GW2 has always included the serious, the jocular, and the cheesy. Some of the voice actors are so good they make ordinary text sound tremendously important; others are so bad that epic dialogue about epic events sounds like someone worried about the density of chocolate sprinkles on their ice cream.
Without specifics, it’s impossible to agree or disagree with the OP’s critique. More importantly, it’s impossible for ANet to do anything about it, without specifics.
What lines do you think are immature now? What older bits of dialogue do you think were more mature?
Hey, ice cream (sprinkles or not) is serious business!!!
Other than that I completely agree that the voice acting canbe hit or miss. Makes me wonder if its more a matter of direction than of actual voice acting.
Weird, the reason the people I know did dungeons, or at least repeated them, was for the skins.
And do we have a healthy number of people doing dungeons now?
Yeah, thought so.Repeatable content has to be rewarding otherwise players will abandon it.
I agree. This has nothing to do with exclusivity of said rewards however.
Well, when a developer says that a particular type of content is no longer going to be supported, stops working on it, nerfs rewards (skins are not the only reward), stops doing even bug fixes as near as I can tell, the game mode will not have a healthy pop.
Id much rather continue doing dungeons for my tokens as I did for the first years post launch, but when I am given the impressio by the devs that I shouldnt, am given the impression that the only reasons the dungeons are still accessible at all are the bad press that would be associated with removing them and the distinct possibility that it would be more expensive to remove them than to just pretend they dont exist, then its hard to be motivated to pursue the skins there rather than via a reward track in wvw.
I will not attempt to speak for others who might be inclined to play dungeons if they were a fully supported game mode…but I wouldnt be surprised to discover that I am not the only one.
Raid rewards need to be exclusive to create a drive for players to play them again and again. The content is great, but even the greatest content gets exhausted if you have no reason to go back to it. See dungeons for instance.
Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content. It definitely wasn’t for dungeon exclusive skins that people were running them. It’s not for fractal skins that people are running fractals now (even the legendary backpack likely has only minimal impact fractal popularity).
So, why exactly raids need to have the drive that so surpasses the same for dungeons and fractals? It’s not like they are (again, supposedly) any more important of a content, right?
Weird, the reason the people I know did dungeons, or at least repeated them, was for the skins.
Its only fair to say that, though I dont enjoy navigating them, the HoT maps are stunning to look at. VB and AB are truly gorgeous.
For looks:
1. Frostgorge Sound – The scenery is beautiful. It’s not my favorite map to play through, but I love looking at it when I’m there.
2. The Grove – This is just a beautiful setting, especially at night when you can see the stars.
3. Auric Basin – The jungle sections are beautiful, the waterfall area is one of my favorite places in the game, and Tarir is just gorgeous.
4. Kessex Hills – Despite the blast zone around the destroyed Tower of Nightmares, I still think Kessex Hills is one of the most beautiful zones. Plus, floating tower of mystery is mysterious and neat.
5. Divinity’s Reach – I love the bustling city atmosphere. Plus, it’s a beautiful city, which gives it double bonus points.Favorites to play through:
1. Cursed Shore – I’ve always liked playing in CS a lot. Lots of fun lore bits to seek out, tons of events, and good for farming certain mats/items.
2. Silverwastes – Again, good farming, but the events area also entertaining and engaging enough that I don’t get bored easily.
3. Straits of Devastation – I have a soft spot for Straits because of the old, old, old karma train. Events are plentiful, and the loot isn’t bad, either.
4. Draconis Mons – I love playing in this map. Spiderman fun times, GW1 tie-ins and lore, and a few fun events.
5. Brisban Wildlands – I love Skrittsburgh. The end.
Thank you for reminding me…Divinity’s Reach is outstanding. I would love some more urban content, set in DR.
Cursed Shore is my favorite by far.
WvW Alpine Borderlands.
Silverwastes is very fun.
I like most of the non HoT maps really, but those three stand out to me.
Wrong, new and old players who step on PvE will get the same number of AP for completing some achievement, will get the same reward for finishing a Dungeon, Fractals, Raid and other events on general.
Can a new player in rare gear jump right into lvl 100 fractal? A raid?
Please think about the whole picture before posting your incredibly ill-informed bias.No on Fratals no cause agony, but on raids i am pretty sure that there are groups who made it using only green gear…but still, a group can carry a new player through a Fractal and even if he didnt do anything, in the end he will get the rewards as well. This is very common actually, people even sell spots on groups for players in exchange of gold.
Great, none of those scenarios are relevant to the current discussion here, thanks.
Why not? I said that other game modes(PvE and PvP) reward all players the same, no matter for how long they the game…you said its was false and i proved to you that it is actually true….how is this not relevant?
This topic is about new and old players putting in the same time/effort.
Not really.
The veteran player who has put in 3000 hours of time and effort is getting more than a non veteran who has put in 10 hours. Perhaps the math I learned in gradeschool is out of date, but they used to teach that 3000 greater than 10.
If the vet and non vet work side by side getting to tier 3 participation on a given day, when the tick comes to earn pips the vet will have put in 3000 hours of 5ime and effort toward that tick while the non vet will have put in 10.
Once the non vet puts in the time and effort to match where the vet is now he will earn the same.
People calling the current system unfair are essentially asking that new players earn the same rewards with less time and effort investment than that put in by veterans.
1) Dry Top.
2) EotM
3) WvW Desert Borderlands (I wouldnt mind this as a PvE map but dislike it for WvW)
4) HoT
If when the update dropped every player got x number of skirmish tickets based on their rank, and for every rank gained from this point on, every player would get x amount of ticket, there would be no issue.
I dont find the current set up to be unfair, but this would have been an interesting approach.
It would likely end up causing the process to complete the rewards to be more protracted for new players as the goalposts would need to be moved back so that vets didnt get maxed out immediately.
I’d like to put my 2 cents in somewhere. Might as well be on this thread.
Pip balance is really screwy imo. I’m getting +2 due to my rank at low silver and it’ll take forever for me to get past silver. It’s a horribly slow progression. While I understand having to “work” for things, there are other aspects of stuff like Warbringer (what I’m going for, if the game servers don’t shut down first) that require a lot of time to assemble. I don’t see how spending far too many hours just logged into the game should be an integral part of the reward system. I’d rather it be based on actions in the game.
That said, I’m starting in on the GOLD chest as of last night. I’m not going to finish it by reset, if I do then I’ll be surprised. I have life and a family.
The biggest complaint I have about the reward system right now is that – because I’m not a slave to GW2 and WvW – I’m going to have to start at the bottom Wood chest again at reset when I haven’t even gotten enough time to get up to the plat, mithril and diamond chests. This means I’ll get to be in this forever-low-level-reward trap which is nonsense.
Yes, some people would say I’m not “dedicated” enough then but it’s not “dedicated” when it’s based on how long someone can sit on their ass logged into a computer game.
Maybe just have the chests rotate when you cycle through them instead?
I would like to see the outnumbered bonus to pip earning reduced to 2 and a bonus +1 added for each rank of participation above 3. So someone actively getting involved can earn more pips than someone semi afk on an outnumbered map.
IMO, the real solution is to remove the ability of pets to attack on their own. Other professions do not have that ability and I frankly don’t understand why necros and rangers do. It’s not necessary for the other professions so I don’t see why it’s necessary for necros and rangers.
It’s so they defend you if you’re attacked (and defend themselves).
They don’t need to automatically defend if you are present at your computer. If something attacks you, you defend yourself and your pet attacks what you are attacking.
All summons do this, actually, it’s just that necromancer minions are the only summons with no inherent time limit attached (and ranger pets are our class mechanic).
Yes, but we are talking specifically about afk farming, so other profession summons don’t matter to this conversation. What matters is persistent pets that allow a person to walk away from their computer (afk) for long periods of time.
So I will ask again, what is the legitimate gameplay reason to have pets able to attack without direction? I can’t think of one but I’m asking.
Nothing comes to mind for me either. Having my pet restricted to attacking my target, or targets I assign, would be fine with me as a ranger main player.
I am continuing, for the most part, to do the same sorts of things I enjoyed while leveling. Of course the mobs are more challenging than what I faced in Queensdale, but doing open world events, fighting mobs, gathering, and so on are pretty much what I did while leveling. The sorts of things haven’t changed completely and fundamentally, but there certainly has been some escalation of challenge…then again Orr was more challenging than Queensdale too…even if the sorts of things done there is fundamentally the same or very similar.
There are other things that were not present while leveling however…trying unsuccessfully to navigate a multi-tier map. Gliding. Jumping mushrooms. Those wallows and chutes, etc. Can’t say I like them that much. Actively dislike most of them.
In HoT I’m not doing the same things I did in core (“Queensdale” lol). In core I never had to worry about huge numbers of mobs with cc PLUS confusing maps PLUS continual group content. Interesting that given these MAJOR differences from core that you experience HoT exactly the same.
Odd, I specifically stated that I dont experience HoT exactly the same as I did core maps…and gave examples.
I am continuing, for the most part, to do the same sorts of things I enjoyed while leveling.
This was the first sentence. Yes you did go on to describe some things that you find different, but this sentence seemed to indicate that in the main you found the experiences the same.
Same sorts of things. Not exactly the same experience.
The cafe I am sitting in right now serves the best deli sandwiches I have ever eaten. Two doors down is a subway. They both serve the same sort of things (for the most part), but there is a reason I am sitting in Rrag’s cafe and not in the Subway. The experiences are not the same, despite serving the same sorts of things.
There is a local pizza place….serves the same sorts of dishes as Little Caesar’s. Not the same experience at all.
I guess the thing to take away from this is that I am hungry…and my lunch just arrived so off to eat the best smoked bacon and turkey club ever.
Our goal should be to keep WvW alive, get new players to join and stay, incentivise winning & fights along with server loyalty. You could have this and still reward veterans by having a higher base pip (say 3) and/or more pips for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place (say 5-4-3).
If a new guy in my guild gets 1 pip while I get 6 that’s a crazy difference. With a higher base he would get 6 and I would get 12. I still get twice as many but he can actually progress and if he commits close to 3hours a day he can still get Diamond, it’s a ton of time but it’s doable. Currently he would need like 17 hours which is complete nonsense.
The issue brought up by the OP isn’t that base pips are low. The issue in this thread is that players of a higher rank get bonus pips and he says this is unfair.
Any game system trying to incentivize players staying with the game need a progression system. The WXP ranking system was always intended to be that progression.
In the OP he asked for an increase to newer player pip awards as well as a reduction to awards to high ranked veterans so the issue is in part, according to the OP, a desire on his part for increased pip gain at lower levels, not just about bonuses for higher levels.
No he didn’t. He asked for the removal of bonus pips based on rank and everyone gains the same amount equally.
"
A persons WVW rank should not be used for pip acquisition.Please make it an avg amount of pips given to all players all remove this entirely. It is immoral and discriminates against new players. Whoever did this needs to give me an explanation. A very good one of why your choosing to discriminate other players."
An avg (average) amount of pips, as asked for in the OP, between the low rank and the high would mean an increase for low ranks and decrease for high)…as I pointed out.
Our goal should be to keep WvW alive, get new players to join and stay, incentivise winning & fights along with server loyalty. You could have this and still reward veterans by having a higher base pip (say 3) and/or more pips for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place (say 5-4-3).
If a new guy in my guild gets 1 pip while I get 6 that’s a crazy difference. With a higher base he would get 6 and I would get 12. I still get twice as many but he can actually progress and if he commits close to 3hours a day he can still get Diamond, it’s a ton of time but it’s doable. Currently he would need like 17 hours which is complete nonsense.
The issue brought up by the OP isn’t that base pips are low. The issue in this thread is that players of a higher rank get bonus pips and he says this is unfair.
Any game system trying to incentivize players staying with the game need a progression system. The WXP ranking system was always intended to be that progression.
In the OP he asked for an increase to newer player pip awards as well as a reduction to awards to high ranked veterans so the issue is in part, according to the OP, a desire on his part for increased pip gain at lower levels, not just about bonuses for higher levels.
It’s possibly a sign they weren’t interested in wvw in the first place.
Quite possibly. But remember that the main reason why this update was brought in was an attempt to entice more people into what was otherwise a dying game mode. (You will never hear the devs say this, but the fancy new rewards they brought in were NOT made for the veterans. If they were willing to keep playing the same mode this long, they’d be willing to keep playing it for another 3 years with no changes. No, just like with PvP, the new shinies were made to try to attract new people in.)
If we’re not succeeding at keeping these new players, then very soon we’ll be back to the same old problems of overstacked servers and dead hours when you can’t even muster enough people to defend your garrisons. (Or worse, there’s people around, but nobody answers your call for help because they’re all busy afk farming their Outnumbered pips somewhere in a quiet corner of the map.)
And eventually, even ANet may decide that WvW is no longer viable because they can’t justify spending the time and manpower on a game mode that such a tiny proportion of the player base frequents, and decides to just put it on life support. Don’t think it can’t happen. It happened to SAB, and it may be happening to raids in the future.
The potential rewards may be about getting new players to try wvw but the gamepmay has to be what keeps them. Otherwise there is no reason for them to not afk farm, as some have said they do for the GoB, their pips. You dont want people who dont want to be there to stay IMO.
I am continuing, for the most part, to do the same sorts of things I enjoyed while leveling. Of course the mobs are more challenging than what I faced in Queensdale, but doing open world events, fighting mobs, gathering, and so on are pretty much what I did while leveling. The sorts of things haven’t changed completely and fundamentally, but there certainly has been some escalation of challenge…then again Orr was more challenging than Queensdale too…even if the sorts of things done there is fundamentally the same or very similar.
There are other things that were not present while leveling however…trying unsuccessfully to navigate a multi-tier map. Gliding. Jumping mushrooms. Those wallows and chutes, etc. Can’t say I like them that much. Actively dislike most of them.
In HoT I’m not doing the same things I did in core (“Queensdale” lol). In core I never had to worry about huge numbers of mobs with cc PLUS confusing maps PLUS continual group content. Interesting that given these MAJOR differences from core that you experience HoT exactly the same.
Odd, I specifically stated that I dont experience HoT exactly the same as I did core maps…and gave examples.
I do the same sorts of things, as previously outlined, for the most part. Running around the open world solo, doing events, gathering, killing mobs, viewing vistas, looking for POI, and so on. But the mobs are more challenging, the maps more convoluted. The differences in detail are not always for the better IMO, but still the same sorts of things.
So, the same sorts of things, but not experienced in exactly the same way. If a new map is going to be exactly the same there probably isnt a reason to spend the resources producing it.
In core maps did you ever do escort events?
Go to a vista?
Seek out a point of interest?
Take a moment or two to look at the scenery?
Defend an area against attack by monsters?
Attack an area held by monsters?
Gather crafting mats from nodes scattered around the open world?
Rez a fallen player character?
Participate in a fight against a boss or boss like mob alongside other players?
Ive done all of these sorts of things in both HoT and Core Tyria. The details may be different. Degree of difficulty as well. But the sorts of content are common to both.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
If this is the case I should be recieving…more gold and rares in pve based on my AP.
Isn’t this what happens due to account AP rewards for magic find and such?
I am continuing, for the most part, to do the same sorts of things I enjoyed while leveling. Of course the mobs are more challenging than what I faced in Queensdale, but doing open world events, fighting mobs, gathering, and so on are pretty much what I did while leveling. The sorts of things haven’t changed completely and fundamentally, but there certainly has been some escalation of challenge…then again Orr was more challenging than Queensdale too…even if the sorts of things done there is fundamentally the same or very similar.
There are other things that were not present while leveling however…trying unsuccessfully to navigate a multi-tier map. Gliding. Jumping mushrooms. Those wallows and chutes, etc. Can’t say I like them that much. Actively dislike most of them.
If a new item, to be acquired via gold or crafting mats, is introduced into PvE the player with a stockpile generated over the course of 4+ years has an advantage over a new player.
Someone who had been raiding for over a year when legendary armor was released had an advantage in LI over someone who waited to see the armor before starting to raid.
You missed the point completely. People don’t complain that wvw veteran are being rewarded for all those ranks up, they complain that wvw veteran are gaining more rewards than other in the same timeframe for the same activity.
Someone who had been raiding for over a year don’t earn better reward raiding than a completely new raider as long as the new raider is as effective as the veteran raider.
A new spvp player earn the same rewards as a veteran in the same timeframe if the new player is as effective as the veteran.
A new wvw player earn significantly less reward than a veteran in the same timeframe, no matter how effective he is.
No, I did not miss the point. The person I was replying to asked a very specific question. I answered that specific question.
The same timeframe, as you put, could be described as from launch until the present. Has the person who started last week put as much time and effort in as the person who started working on their wvw rank four years ago?
Should a new player be rewarded faster than a veteran?
Personally I am a novice. Not even rank 300 yet. But I dont see a problem with people who have put in more effort than I getting better rewards than I do.
If it is so easy and clear as you write, well, why do threads like these constantly pop up since HoT release, where people write about their problems, which are all the same since release? For you it might all be easy and clear, but for (too) many people it seems not, and that fact is proved by the pure existence of these threads. A non-issue would generate none of these forum threads.
Don’t look at the design itself, look at the people how they deal with the design. They clearly have their problems with it.you know HOT came out nearly 2 years ago right? People saying they are still struggling after nearly 2 years of gameplay are either being disingenuous or are going to struggle with every game known to man. People don’t post for non issues, that’s why the vast majority don’t complain about the difficulty of HOT, because actually its not really a difficult game. Dark Souls is a difficult game, or a tightly tuned raid is difficult, even some GW1 elite zones, but GW2 lol, no.
Or they could be new to the game and not a veteran who was around before HoT launched. Given the level 80 boost, a good portion may enter HoT areas within a short time frame of joining the game because they want the elite spec.
Solid point. I think that a good counterpoint might be that we should, politely, encourage new players to hold off on jumping into endgame content while they are learning to play the game. A game whose endgame content is not a struggle for people new to the game is going to have problems providing any challenge at all to people who have been playing for a while.
Of course some new to gw2 players are very experienced mmo players and will become skilled here very quickly.
HoT is not “end game” content any more than any level 80 zone is “end game” content. If Anet would like to make it “end game” content they will have to find a way to communicate that in-game so that everyone is clearly informed.
HoT was marketed as max level content for players who were ready for increased challenge over the core game. It fits gw2’s endgame definition pretty well. Sure we have instanced stuff too, but open world has always been described as part of this game’s approach to endgame.
Apparently I didn’t see that “marketing”, nor any comments regarding open world being part of end game.
In every MMO I can think of, end game isn’t simply “the highest level zone” in the open world. It is a part of the game that you must approach with deliberation – it requires some kind of progression, organization, and planning. If Anet truly has stated that open world = “end game” in GW2, that would be very strange indeed.
This isnt every other MMO, or any MMO I can think of.
A complaint that some have voiced about HoT is that it requires some of that deliberation you mention. More care on the player’s part than is the case in core maps.
Sorry, but my search fu is limited when forumizing from my phone, but comments to the effect of the entire game being endgame were tossed around from early on precisely because ANet didnt want to be exactly like every other MMO.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that open world is a good approach, or bad for that matter, merely that it is part of Anet’s approach for this game.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
I would hope that adding stat swapping would be a simpler task than adding a new armor set, so…sure.
/signed.
If it is so easy and clear as you write, well, why do threads like these constantly pop up since HoT release, where people write about their problems, which are all the same since release? For you it might all be easy and clear, but for (too) many people it seems not, and that fact is proved by the pure existence of these threads. A non-issue would generate none of these forum threads.
Don’t look at the design itself, look at the people how they deal with the design. They clearly have their problems with it.you know HOT came out nearly 2 years ago right? People saying they are still struggling after nearly 2 years of gameplay are either being disingenuous or are going to struggle with every game known to man. People don’t post for non issues, that’s why the vast majority don’t complain about the difficulty of HOT, because actually its not really a difficult game. Dark Souls is a difficult game, or a tightly tuned raid is difficult, even some GW1 elite zones, but GW2 lol, no.
Or they could be new to the game and not a veteran who was around before HoT launched. Given the level 80 boost, a good portion may enter HoT areas within a short time frame of joining the game because they want the elite spec.
Solid point. I think that a good counterpoint might be that we should, politely, encourage new players to hold off on jumping into endgame content while they are learning to play the game. A game whose endgame content is not a struggle for people new to the game is going to have problems providing any challenge at all to people who have been playing for a while.
Of course some new to gw2 players are very experienced mmo players and will become skilled here very quickly.
HoT is not “end game” content any more than any level 80 zone is “end game” content. If Anet would like to make it “end game” content they will have to find a way to communicate that in-game so that everyone is clearly informed.
HoT was marketed as max level content for players who were ready for increased challenge over the core game. It fits gw2’s endgame definition pretty well. Sure we have instanced stuff too, but open world has always been described as part of this game’s approach to endgame.
Good to see pve entitlement is alive and well.
really where is the reward for retroactive dedication in pve or spvp? I’d say wvw are the entitled ones acting like they deserve this.
If a new item, to be acquired via gold or crafting mats, is introduced into PvE the player with a stockpile generated over the course of 4+ years has an advantage over a new player.
Someone who had been raiding for over a year when legendary armor was released had an advantage in LI over someone who waited to see the armor before starting to raid.
ANet has been talking about revisions and updates to WvW, incljding rewards, for over a year. Some people got ready, others didnt care enough to do so. I didnt care enough and so am at a low rank. My choice.
If it is so easy and clear as you write, well, why do threads like these constantly pop up since HoT release, where people write about their problems, which are all the same since release? For you it might all be easy and clear, but for (too) many people it seems not, and that fact is proved by the pure existence of these threads. A non-issue would generate none of these forum threads.
Don’t look at the design itself, look at the people how they deal with the design. They clearly have their problems with it.you know HOT came out nearly 2 years ago right? People saying they are still struggling after nearly 2 years of gameplay are either being disingenuous or are going to struggle with every game known to man. People don’t post for non issues, that’s why the vast majority don’t complain about the difficulty of HOT, because actually its not really a difficult game. Dark Souls is a difficult game, or a tightly tuned raid is difficult, even some GW1 elite zones, but GW2 lol, no.
Or they could be new to the game and not a veteran who was around before HoT launched. Given the level 80 boost, a good portion may enter HoT areas within a short time frame of joining the game because they want the elite spec.
Solid point. I think that a good counterpoint might be that we should, politely, encourage new players to hold off on jumping into endgame content while they are learning to play the game. A game whose endgame content is not a struggle for people new to the game is going to have problems providing any challenge at all to people who have been playing for a while.
Of course some new to gw2 players are very experienced mmo players and will become skilled here very quickly.
How many people expecting a discount on the next product release because they bought the last give their employer a payroll discount on this year’s pay because they were paid last year?
That’s an inane-sounding analogy so maybe you could ’splain it?
Anet provides a service for which players pay.
Workers provide a service for which employers pay.
Some people are arguing that because some players have paid for the service in the past they should have access to future service at a discounted rate.
So employers should get a discount from workers (or at least from those making the argument that its unethical for Anet to charge existing customers full price for expansions) for future service as well…right?