Guild Wars 2

Tumult.2578:

I don’t see how guild versus guild wars are a big thing in the game, even in WvW and don’t see any movement to make it important so what is the point of restricting the ability to get a guild hall? Individual players would dump resources into an individual or small guild just like the big guilds. There is no requirement that only actual guild members get you past the restriction. Where is the value in showing us we can’t do everything by ourselves, when it’s already obvious?

Where is the sense in this restriction?

Because Anet doesn’t see a handful of players, or even just a single player, as a guild but rather a party.

Scaling requirements to upgrade the hall, as others have suggested, would just lead to gaming the system.

zinkz.7045:

Don’t worry, once team Barbie have got their back piece your queue issues will disappear.

Unless team Ken then decides to go for theirs.

Queues are going to be rough for a few weeks.

All it proves is that different skins appeal to different players.

You gain XP to progress the mastery to the next level and then use MP to unlock it.

People have been progressing their personal guilds.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Ayrilana.1396:

The map allows you to switch between “floors”.

Sure, but this doesn’t help. You still doesn’t see paths and ways to a point of interest, if the entrance is on a different level than the point of interest. It’s even worse: the map changes as you walk. Underground areas are uncovered in part while you walk through them, but you only see your current height uncovered. If you walk down, the upper area behind you is covered again and the next lower part in front of you is uncovered. You never see the whole way, the whole level. Especially for added semi-levels that lay between the switchable floors of the map. Draconis Mons has tons of these semi-levels.

It’s as you have printed 3 big paper maps of Draconis Mons on your desk and about 100 independent small scrap pieces of paper where the semi-levels between the big paper maps are scribbled. Totally chaotic.

Actually, you kind of do see paths.

Behellagh.1468:

Good news since in tomorrow’s patch players standing still for to long will be targeted with siege weapons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Lake-Doric-Change/first#post6608671

Bye bye Eng farm.

Good. Now the original m farm will be more prominent and I can farm XP again.

If you farm up enough currency for about 170 machetes, that should be enough to get you a stack of crystalline ore in three runs so long as you participate in the meta and open every pod.

XTR.9604:

Ayrilana.1396:

Do the commander markers persist after a commander steps down? Can’t those markers be used in place of a tag if so?

Unfortunately they do not. If they did, this wouldn’t be a problem at all. But as soon as the commander steps down, all lieutenants are demoted and all markers are cleared.

Perhaps having them persist would be a good compromise then for the markers.

Do the commander markers persist after a commander steps down? Can’t those markers be used in place of a tag if so?

slashlizardy.9167:

Ayrilana.1396:

slashlizardy.9167:

Ayrilana.1396:

slashlizardy.9167:

Actually there is forcing, when the xp gets to the max and you have no points to spend at the moment. An excess of 30 or so is not enuff for up to 186 points to spend. Considering that less than 20% of the material will be considered enjoyable by the players, and that the players will differ on what is enjoyable to them, so at best anet can provide 50% of quality material, then there should be a bonus of MP’s of about 94 points.

It’s more than enough buffer.

Did you make up that “fact” about 20% of players?

Excess mastery points should not be based on what players prefer to play as that defeats the purpose.

No it doesn’t, as long as they are doing enjoyable (to them, at least) content, they will stay engaged in the game. 20% of (enjoyable) content…. Or they could just take out MP collection itself, altogether…

Again, where are you getting this 20% from as it looks like you’re just making it up to support your argument.

Having so much of an excess of MP in the game makes it pointless and defeats the original purpose.

It does defeat the purpose, as it is not needed and is terrible game design. It starts to devolve the game into a niche game.

It defeats the purpose as the mastery points get players to experience most of, if not all, of the expansion content.

slashlizardy.9167:

Ayrilana.1396:

slashlizardy.9167:

Actually there is forcing, when the xp gets to the max and you have no points to spend at the moment. An excess of 30 or so is not enuff for up to 186 points to spend. Considering that less than 20% of the material will be considered enjoyable by the players, and that the players will differ on what is enjoyable to them, so at best anet can provide 50% of quality material, then there should be a bonus of MP’s of about 94 points.

It’s more than enough buffer.

Did you make up that “fact” about 20% of players?

Excess mastery points should not be based on what players prefer to play as that defeats the purpose.

No it doesn’t, as long as they are doing enjoyable (to them, at least) content, they will stay engaged in the game. 20% of (enjoyable) content…. Or they could just take out MP collection itself, altogether…

Again, where are you getting this 20% from as it looks like you’re just making it up to support your argument.

Having so much of an excess of MP in the game makes it pointless and defeats the original purpose.

slashlizardy.9167:

Actually there is forcing, when the xp gets to the max and you have no points to spend at the moment. An excess of 30 or so is not enuff for up to 186 points to spend. Considering that less than 20% of the material will be considered enjoyable by the players, and that the players will differ on what is enjoyable to them, so at best anet can provide 50% of quality material, then there should be a bonus of MP’s of about 94 points.

It’s more than enough buffer.

Did you make up that “fact” about 20% of players?

Excess mastery points should not be based on what players prefer to play as that defeats the purpose.

Silmar Alech.4305:

My main problem with this kind of map is if the entrance to an area is on a different level than the point of interest of this area shown on the map. If you design a map and provide a minimap, but the map has full 3d geography and the minimap is only plain 2d, you provide an incomplete guide to the map. In this case, no minimap would be better for me than a minimap that leads me the wrong path.

This seems an engine limitation from the start and applies to the whole game. For rare events, we get arrows pointing the way we should go to progress the event. But to be able to navigate a map like Draconis Mons or Tangled Depths, we need many more arrows on the minimap, if the minimap should help instead of confuse.

Better would be a 3d-minimap. The last game I played with such a 3d-minimap was Doom 2016. It’s probably not as beautiful as a paper map-like appearance like now, but certainly more helpful.

The map allows you to switch between “floors”.

Djinn.9245:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

Why do you believe that people should be doing something they don’t like during their entertainment time? I completely disagree.

People need to be encouraged to try different things, otherwise they never will.

Like my Mommy? Sorry, I’m an adult and can decide to try brocolli or not. And when it comes to my entertainment, I especially don’t need someone else to decide what I should try.

Notice he used the word “encouraged,” not, “forced.” And the developer is not doing it for your good, they’re doing it for theirs. The more people they can encourage to engage with content they expend resources creating, the better for them. ANet is not a parent telling you to do something, they’re people who created something to do and who are wise enough to know that without rewards, a lot of MMO players will blow that content off. The real issue, if you read more of what Healix says, is not that they put incentives behind content, but which incentives they put behind content.

Now that the Wiki has been corrected and we know that there are actually only 185 available MP, not 217, it is less “encouragement” and more “forcing” than the “play Anet’s way” defenders like to claim…

And if players blow off content, that should be indication that the content isn’t what people want, people shouldn’t be forced to do it anyway.

Not all content will appeal to everyone. Just because some players choose to not do raids and/or adventures doesn’t mean that said content was necessarily bad or shouldn’t have been included. There is no forcing; however, if you want the rewards from said content then you must do the content. Not everything has to be centered around the “do whatever I want and get rewarded whatever I want” mentality.

There is an excess of like 30 or so HoT mastery points. I haven’t tracked them in awhile but it’s around there. Players have more than enough of a buffer to choose what they want to do.

You maybe get 10G/hr from the hides but the rest of the drops increase the G/hr.

The most efficient groups also don’t waste time with numerous breaks. I got a ton more loot when I was in a squad that did a break every three runs up there as opposed to every run.

Probably warhorn.

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Coincidence or not, I’m trusting Anet’s word on this, since they are the ones with the actual numbers. This farm is introducing less leather than the regular farm of that area, and that regular farm did nothing to reduce the cost of T6 leather. So this farm is not decreasing the cost of leather because its introducing more into the economy.

I think the most likely situation is that people thought this farm was working, and so they started selling their leather for cheaper, trying to offload it before the price “tanked”, and we end up with a minor dip in price. And now that people realize that the engineer farm doesn’t work, that will reverse itself relatively quickly.

Or while it produces less leather than the other way, there’s enough players doing the engi farm to make up for that and more.

Every item that comes from the heavy supply bags has shown its prices to be decreasing with its supply increasing. T6 fine mats are a bit impossible to analyze as there are so many external factors beyond the farm. Even the bags themselves have shown a slight decrease in price and and even greater increase in supply.

Players offloading their supply wouldn’t be causing all of this.

Are you still seriously trying to argue that Anet doesn’t know how much leather is being generated by this farm. Their comments didn’t say “less leather is being generated per player by this engineer farm”, the said, and I quote,

Chris Cleary

This area is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area

LESS LEATHER IS BEING GENERATED BY THIS FARM PERIOD. Stop trying to justify what you think is happening, because ANet has the actual numbers, and they show that you are just plain incorrect. Less leather is being generated by this farm, it does not matter that more players are participating. Why do you refuse to acknowledge and accept that, especially since that came from someone who has the actual numbers.

Supply has increased and prices have decreased for the following:

• Thick Leather
• Hardened Leather
• Gossamer Scraps
• Silk Scraps
• Onyx Core
• Onyx Lodestone
• Heavy Supply Bags

All associated with the engi farm and this started near the end of April when the engi farm became widely known.

That statement could very well mean that leather being farmed per player has decreased but more have started farming to compensate for it. He could also be referring to two areas: the original leather farm up the mountain and the area at the bottom. There are different interpretations of their comment which are all valid.

Chris Cleary

This area [at the bottom] is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area [at the bottom] has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area [on the mountain]

I never specifically stated that they did not know how much leather was generated. That was your interpretation of my post. Them being wrong is just one scenario among others such as their comment being misinterpreted. Given who it is, I’d lean towards the latter.

There are many times that I have referenced two things using the same word such as ‘they’ or ‘it’ to name a couple. Doing so using ‘area’ could very well be possible too.

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Coincidence or not, I’m trusting Anet’s word on this, since they are the ones with the actual numbers. This farm is introducing less leather than the regular farm of that area, and that regular farm did nothing to reduce the cost of T6 leather. So this farm is not decreasing the cost of leather because its introducing more into the economy.

I think the most likely situation is that people thought this farm was working, and so they started selling their leather for cheaper, trying to offload it before the price “tanked”, and we end up with a minor dip in price. And now that people realize that the engineer farm doesn’t work, that will reverse itself relatively quickly.

Or while it produces less leather than the other way, there’s enough players doing the engi farm to make up for that and more.

Every item that comes from the heavy supply bags has shown its prices to be decreasing with its supply increasing. T6 fine mats are a bit impossible to analyze as there are so many external factors beyond the farm. Even the bags themselves have shown a slight decrease in price and and even greater increase in supply.

Players offloading their supply wouldn’t be causing all of this.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Right. And yet the devs told us that the engi farm introduces less leather into the economy than the previous farming mode. I assume they do have the data that back up such a claim.

So, we know, that the previous mode of farming didn’t impact economy at all (or, at least, not visibly). We know, that the engi farm introduces even less leather than the previous mode. Logically, it cannot have impacted the prices in the way we’re observing, then. The effect must come from somewhere else.

Yep but where? It seems too much of a coincidence that at least four crafting materials that drop from the supply bags have seen changes since the engi farm began. Ore and wood remain relatively unchanged.

Faaris.8013:

The prices have decreased a little bit since Lake Doric was put online, not since Engineers figured out how to farm the ground area.

The bolded is incorrect and I’m shocked that you didn’t go to verify the prices before posting.

The centaurs at the bottom drop Heavy Supply Bags frequently. Within the drop table is thick leather and hardened leather. Also note that word of the egineer farm became widespread the last weekend of April and most definitely before the recent living story episode.

If you go on gw2tp for thick leather, you’ll see that prices were around 2.6 silver with supply in the range of 800K. Today, prices are 1.5 silver with supply around 1.3M. For hardened leather, prices were in the upper 30 silver with supply at 8-15K depending on when you looked at it as it had wild fluctuations during April. Today supply is over 30K with prices at around 29 silver.

As far as I’m aware, Anet didn’t suddenly reduce the amount of leather needed for leather recipes nor did they increase the ways to get leather since episode 4 was released. We also know that the engi farm overtook the leather farm up the mountain as finding the latter is very difficult. Kind of odd that thick/hardened leather has experienced such a change, with it not being due to the engi farm, right?

Silk/gossamer also drop from the heavy supply bags. Both have seen a drop in their prices along with an increase in supply. More evidence pointing towards the engi farm contributing to the drop of prices for those two tiers.

Faaris.8013:

As the dev on reddit mentioned:

Small facts:

This area is outside of the leather farm and the farming going on in the area has actually decreased the amount of leather farmed in the area

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6ec2az/chris_clearly_engi_leather_farmbots_working_on_it/

He actually has numbers from the logs of that map. Contrary to what you believe, the Engineer farm does not make leather cheaper. You obviously didn’t even experience it yourself before talking about it on the forums. Please take 30 to 60 minutes and actually join the Engineers. You don’t need an Engineer for that, a character with AoEs helps. You will notice that there’s only crap to loot and the ponies down there don’t drop a single Hardened Leather Section. Thinking about it, since the Engineer farm only drops lower tier leather (mainly Tier 5), it could mean that people buy it on the market and think it’s a good time to start crafting. But for that, they need hardened leather again, so the demand on hardened leather rises, without additional hardened leather entering the market. You know what that means? Hardened leather could become more expensive because of the Engineer farms.

Either the dev is wrong or what they stated is being taken the wrong way. As you saw above, there’s strong evidence suggesting that the engi farm is indeed making leather cheaper (for thick/hardened). I HAD experienced the engi farm as I did do it that first weekend to see what it was all about. Considering that you flat out stated that you don’t get hardened leather from the engi farm (see bolded), I’d say that you yourself haven’t done the engi farm. Kind of hypocritical…

As far as the last part of your post, hardened leather supply has had a downward trend is price, as well as an upward trend in supply, since the engi farm became prominent. I’d say that you’re wrong here as well.

So winning pips are based on war score with the war score getting reset every two hours. I assume that this means that winning pips are awarded every two hours.

My question is whether a player has to be online, and on a WvW map, to get awarded these winning pips?

If they do then I could see some fuss about players being forced to play until the next tick to not lose credit or something similar to how players complained about rewards for the HoT maps or before that April update.

There’s also the issue of getting a d/c after playing on a map for 115 minutes and then lose out on winning pips.

TheGrimm.5624:

Mea.5491:

Gotta love it when people complain about things they do not even know how they freaking work… Engineers. cannot. be. afk. because. the. turrets. get. destroyed. in. 5. minutes. Also, if a GM comes around and they don’t answer the whispers, they get temp. banned. This is not an afk farm. Next time learn more about the situation before you open your mouth!

Ummm… what!? So, what do you use for a keyboard and mouse? Pets classes like the engi/ranger/necro could be easily used since you can simply set the abilities to respawn after a delay with any current gaming mouse/keyboard. Not saying people are afk farming or not but your assumption that no one is and its impossible are right out if have every used any gaming peripherals.

You can only have one ability on auto at a time. Turrets are placed at specific locations, and not on top of the player, which means that the character would have to move to each location.

The only way to be truly AFK, and to do the farm effectively, would be if you were botting.

SkyShroud.2865:

Behellagh.1468:

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkyShroud.2865:

1. Erm? So? The fact it does now and everyone has access to that so it is equalize in that perspective.

Unbound magic is not required to get ascended trinkets. You can get ascended trinkets elsewhere in the game for all stat combinations. Unbound magic is only required for ascended trinkets from the LS3 maps. If you disagree with me about any of this then give your evidence as it’s pretty self-evident to everyone that has played the game prior to July 2016 that ascended trinkets could be obtained, and still can, from non-LS3 maps.

Please scroll up. Don’t post for the sake of posting.

Ayrilana.1396:

SkyShroud.2865:

2. It does give advantage even though is minimum, it is really a matter of principle here. If people allow forms of p2w contents in then anet can add more things that have more impacts since people tolerance and acceptance grew.

The only advantage is not having to go to a vendor to purchase another set of tools. That convenience isn’t p2w.

Scroll up.

You’re the one who isn’t listening. You’re the one declaring P2W because of your insistence that ascended trinkets require unbound magic, which isn’t true. Nowhere do you back this up with facts.

You ignore that the same functionality, generating unbound magic with limited use gathering tools, is available for karma. Doesn’t matter that the limited unbound tools have half the charges of the orichalcum ones. Any player in the LWS3 map can buy them.

Now if you want to argue that by being 10% cheaper as a set of any other unlimited tools, except the generic ones, while generating “currency”, they that’s an argument that can be made. But the insistence that unbound magic is needed to get ascended trinkets isn’t.

You are not reading or basically selectively reading things. As already mentioned, those ways to obtain ascended trinkets are accessible by everyone via the same method (without cash involved), like it or not, it is equalized in that perspective but you like the rest of the people, butting into an argument without wanting to understand the head and tail of the argument. Then what, I have to repeat all over again in by rephrasing it while having the same meaning? For what? For people that don’t read?

You’re the one that isn’t reading.

You claimed multiple times that unbound magic is required for ascended trinkets. This is untrue as you can acquire ascended trinkets outside of the LS3 maps. This is a fact.

When it comes to ascended trinkets on the LS3 maps, players are equal in regards to acquisition. Bitterfrost Frontier farm is a great way to quickly amass UB. The limiting factor to acquiring ascended trinkets on these maps are the individual currencies specific to a given map.

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

Again, the games are much different. Increasing the team size in order to increase the frequency of updates further for those that choose to blast through content the first day, and then complain about it, won’t be healthy for the game. Adding a subscription will turn away a lot of players and it certainly wouldn’t attract any.

Of course not now, but it should have launched with a sub. I’d be more than happy to pay a monthly sum for sizable content updates more frequently. The gemstone just will never be a good substitute.

That’s assuming that the game having a sub would have attracted more players than it has being B2P. Player retention will likely be lower with a monthly fee.

SkyShroud.2865:

1. Erm? So? The fact it does now and everyone has access to that so it is equalize in that perspective.

Unbound magic is not required to get ascended trinkets. You can get ascended trinkets elsewhere in the game for all stat combinations. Unbound magic is only required for ascended trinkets from the LS3 maps. If you disagree with me about any of this then give your evidence as it’s pretty self-evident to everyone that has played the game prior to July 2016 that ascended trinkets could be obtained, and still can, from non-LS3 maps.

SkyShroud.2865:

2. It does give advantage even though is minimum, it is really a matter of principle here. If people allow forms of p2w contents in then anet can add more things that have more impacts since people tolerance and acceptance grew.

The only advantage is not having to go to a vendor to purchase another set of tools. That convenience isn’t p2w.

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Not if your team is the right size and you are run on a monthly sub to afford a bigger team like always should have happened

Again, the games are much different. Increasing the team size in order to increase the frequency of updates further for those that choose to blast through content the first day, and then complain about it, won’t be healthy for the game. Adding a subscription will turn away a lot of players and it certainly wouldn’t attract any.

The one to Rule.2593:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

That’s crap. It’s not enough, it’s not acceptable. Friggen runescape is updated every 2 weeks with sizable content. Gw2 takes 2-3 months to come out with 5 hours of content. Then leaves us in a draught. When ls is over it will be another huge content draught.

They’re not the same which is why there’s a difference. I’m sure a lot of content could be added quickly for the first Legend of Zelda but take much longer for Breath of Wild.

Faaris.8013:

Ayrilana.1396:

Everything has dropped down due to that engi farm. The impact is based on the number of people farming. Since there are more people doing the engi farm than the old way, you’re seeing a greater impact. If even more people farmed then prices would fall even further. With how things are right now, players have control over the supply and prices.

And what exactly is the impact? They are looting crap, will have no visible effect on the leather economy. It looks bad, that’s all I can see. Not a big deal.

Prices have all dropped since the engi farm started. The more people farming, the more supply that enters the TP, and the further prices go down. That’s your impact. Both thick and hardened have seen price decreases with supply increasing 2-3 fold.

Have people shown Anet what type of leather armor they would like? All I have seen are threads with people criticizing trench coats but with no alternatives mentioned.

Astralporing.1957:

UnitedChaos.8364:

Simply put, this is what GW has envisioned gw2 farming as….
https://postimg.org/image/6grdxnzl7/
Is this really how you wanted to handle the leather situation.

Yes. Remember, that they didn’t really want to do anything about the leather situation. What they wanted was to put up an appearance of doing something.

Things like what you posted? It’s all fine for them. People are farming, but the leather market remains unaffected. It’s perfect.

Everything has dropped down due to that engi farm. The impact is based on the number of people farming. Since there are more people doing the engi farm than the old way, you’re seeing a greater impact. If even more people farmed then prices would fall even further. With how things are right now, players have control over the supply and prices.

Aldath.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

And is sure being updated frequently

Lol at “updated frequently”.

By the way OP, I think you wrote “Wildstar” wrong.

We get major updates 1-2 times a month with smaller updates in between.

And is sure being updated frequently

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkyShroud.2865:

Obtena.7952:

SkyShroud.2865:

Obtena.7952:

SkyShroud.2865:

P2w game yo, I didn’t sign up for this.

You have been ‘signing up’ for it the day watchwork pick was released … it’s a problem for you just now? That’s not really an honest assessment of what you think is it?

Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes. Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?

Sorry, there is no foolish comparison there. The guy has a problem with P2Win items … except he’s been playing a game that has arguably BETTER P2Win items in it for years prior to this release. I mean, what you said doesn’t even make sense … Watchwork pick is a not so valuable currency? I would argue that converting sprockets to gold is the MOST valuable currency you can get. Once you get what you need with magic, then what? I have a never ending need for gold.

Golds is valuable? Really? Magic bound is required for you to get ascended trinkets, plainly gear advantage. I am pretty sure you a pure PvE player, it doesn’t matter for PvEr of course, why would PvEr care about p2w anyway.

1. It’s not required to get ascended gear as those stat combinations existed before LS3.

2. You can get unbound magic much quicker by doing the Bitterfrost farm.

3. It’s not p2w if players already have access to similar tools such as the non-infinite ones from the heart vendors.

1. It is required of you to do raid, not everyone does raid and the rate to get those is slower in comparison.

2. So? Comparing apple and orange?

3. Already explained, scroll up.

1) I was referring to it not being required to need unbound magic to get ascended.

2) Obtaining unbound magic can be done at a much greater rate without the tools making the impact of the tools less significant. Players are not put at a disadvantage if they choose not to get those tools.

SkyShroud.2865:

Obtena.7952:

SkyShroud.2865:

Obtena.7952:

SkyShroud.2865:

P2w game yo, I didn’t sign up for this.

You have been ‘signing up’ for it the day watchwork pick was released … it’s a problem for you just now? That’s not really an honest assessment of what you think is it?

Foolish comparison. Watchwork sporcket is a not so valuable currency elsewhere unbound magic is required for the many selectable ascended trinkets and some recipes. Furthermore, the gathering tool purchasable from those vendors are merely half the quantity which signify the value of such a tool. Are you trying hard to justify p2w contents?

Sorry, there is no foolish comparison there. The guy has a problem with P2Win items … except he’s been playing a game that has arguably BETTER P2Win items in it for years prior to this release. I mean, what you said doesn’t even make sense … Watchwork pick is a not so valuable currency? I would argue that converting sprockets to gold is the MOST valuable currency you can get. Once you get what you need with magic, then what? I have a never ending need for gold.

Golds is valuable? Really? Magic bound is required for you to get ascended trinkets, plainly gear advantage. I am pretty sure you a pure PvE player, it doesn’t matter for PvEr of course, why would PvEr care about p2w anyway.

1. It’s not required to get ascended gear as those stat combinations existed before LS3.

2. You can get unbound magic much quicker by doing the Bitterfrost farm.

3. It’s not p2w if players already have access to similar tools such as the non-infinite ones from the heart vendors.

Katastroff.1045:

The people assigned to the make those gem store items are also the same one fixing the bugs in the dungeons.

No.

Artists and programmers are not the same although there are some that can do both. It’s like how janitors and landscapers both maintain a facility but different different aspects of it.

Wargrave.4936:

I do not understand how you think crowbars are the easiest? All other are purchasable with zone currency. After a very quick point, currency is not needed, therefor can spend on keys. Also I have plenty too…Why i said after a point you do not need the currency, it just builds up.

Also can we see a SS of the 80k airship parts you have?

Crowbars are the easiest because of how many you get from just participating in the meta events.

Psientist.6437:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.

Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.

When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.

I have no idea how else to explain this.

They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.

These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.

You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.

You can obfuscate as much as you like, but it is clear that a tool with a gathering buff is functionally superior to a gathering tool without. Given the choice between two similarly priced tools with the same cosmetics, one with and one without a buff, a rational consumer would choose the one with the buff. Your focus on player value finding rings hollow. You are defending a product line that makes it harder for the player base to find value.

Except neither have the same cosmetics and different cosmetics appeal to different people. There are people that hold more way to the aesthetics of an item to its functional value just as there are people that hold more value over it’s function than its aesthetics. You then have people in between.

You obviously are on the side that values functionality over aesthetics and are making a claim that other items are inferior. I’m arguing that that claim is subjective. You can take objective, subjective, or both qualities and and form a subjective opinion about the value of an item.

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.

Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.

When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.

I have no idea how else to explain this.

They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.

These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.

You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.

What he describes are the only, other than cost, measurable, quantifiable, aspects of the tools’ value.

And? They’re but one aspect that goes towards the value of an item. Look at items such as Rodgort and Flanes of War. A lot of people, including some in this very thread, would argue that one is better than the other and yet neither has a ‘measurable, quantifiable’ difference to the other.

There are people who are treating quantifiable data as the only means to evaluate as item and calling anything that doesn’t match up as inferior. That just isn’t true.

Neural.1824:

Ayrilana.1396:

It takes so long to break-even with the new infinite gathering tools that players that have other versions are better off using the ones from the LS3 maps.

Using a Gold-per-hour tool the other night, I looked at how much money I would make on a typical harvesting run (which takes roughly an hour).

Currently, according to GW2 Efficiency, it would cost you 786g to purchase 2800gems (100 more than the value of the tools). Going by just the harvested items on my 1 hour run (ignoring any loot gained along the way from mobs or such), the total time it would take to gain the gold required to make up for the purchase would be roughly 1 hour per day for around 120 days. That’s without any gathering boosts.

Yes, you have to make sure you do harvesting runs, or that you harvest any node you come across when out in the open world, and yes doing such things 120days straight is not likely.
Having the tools pay for themselves and move into being profitable however would still take less than a year if you are lazy about it.

I do wish that Anet would make it a company rule that if you design/code/whatever a special harvesting tool, that it does not make it into the game unless it is a full set. The one-offs are nice, but, for example, I’d have loved to see a matching sickle and pick to go with the Frost Wasp logging tool.

Doubtful. You can’t use gathered items that you would have otherwise gotten using regularly gathering tools.

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.

Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.

When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.

I have no idea how else to explain this.

They are functionally better, gathering more units in less time than the other tools
They are mathematically better, having faster animations than other tools
They are mechanically better, gathering extra materials than other tools
They are cheaper, costing overall less than other full sets of tools.

These are not opinions. These are measurable facts.

You can call the same thing however many different ways that you want but that is just one aspect to the tools which goes towards its value.

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.

Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.

When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.

Lokki.1092:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mine is better than yours because it as a more appealing effect. Mine is better than yours because it gathers quicker than yours. What’s ‘better’ is subjective.

You are mixing up subjective with objective.

Tool A
Tool B

Tool A looks like fire.
Tool B looks like water.
Which of them looks better is based on personal preference and is therefore subjective. You like Water, I like fire. Who is right? Neither, it’s subjective.

Tool A gathers faster.
Tool B gathers slower.
This is not a subjective comparison. Objectively Tool A is better at gathering speeds.

Tool A gathers basic items, and extra (valuable) items.
Tool B only gathers basic items.
This is again not a subjective comparison. Objectively Tool A is better at gathering items.

You may feel that subjectively, Tool B looks better than Tool A, and that is fine, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But Objectively, Tool A is better at its job of gathering resources.

No matter what subjective values we place on aesthetics, the Unbound Magic Set gathers faster and gets more resources than the other infinite use gathering tools. the Fused Molten Sickle is simply functionally inferior to the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast. If someone purchased the Fused Molten Sickle it is not unreasonable for them to be upset that they now have an inferior infinite gathering tool.

I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.

Psientist.6437:

Ayrilana.1396:

Something is only ‘better’ if it’s desirable.

Admittedly, this quote is taken out of context but I don’t think it matters.

Plenty of people desire cigarettes. Are cigarettes ‘better’? Heroin? Slaves?

Logical fallacy and I’m not going to address it beyond this sentence.

Psientist.6437:

In economics value is defined as the amount someone is willing to pay for something, or more accurately how much someone is willing to work for something with currency used as abstracted work. It is tediously obvious that some players will find value in a product or product line no matter how that product is designed or the product line is organized. We live in a world were people are willing to pay for objectively inferior products to the extreme of paying for products that shorten their lives. Do not take the above as a position on regulation or the mentioned products as analogs for gathering tools. I am just demonstrating that there is a distinction between value and rational self-interest.

A large part of this game is centered around cosmetics. Aesthetics have value and are part of what people use to determine whether the item itself is more valuable than another. An item that’s faster, or gives bonuses, are two other things that add value to an item. All of these are used to determine whether one item is better to the person over another.

Just because you value something as being more important, such as bonus items, doesn’t mean that someone else feels the same. Which item is better is solely on the player.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mine is better than yours because it as a more appealing effect. Mine is better than yours because it gathers quicker than yours. What’s ‘better’ is subjective.

No. “more appealing effect” is subjective. Gathering speed and bonus drops are not subjective. You can argue about how much they’re better, but you cannot argue if they’re better.

Something is only ‘better’ if it’s desirable. Selling two cars with differing appearances only, but including a free plastic sandwich bag with one, doesn’t make that one better than the other based on the free item. Selling game system packages with a lot of stuff that you don’t want, nor would ever use, doesn’t make it better than one that doesn’t contain all of that.

You’re still focusing on just a single aspect of an item while ignoring everything else. Everything about a specific item has a value. Whether or not it is of value will vary from person to person. I personally could care less about the UM so a harvesting sickle with a cool animation is better to me.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thaumanova_Reactor_Fractal

All hearts already award karma for completing them.

Lokki.1092:

Aesthetics should be compared to aesthetics. Because everyone has different tastes.

Yes, you can compare aesthetics of one thing to the aesthetics of another. Just like how I compare the aesthetics of various floor samples. However, when deciding to purchase something, you don’t focus on just one aspect of an item but everything.

Lokki.1092:

This entire games is built around the idea of horizontal progression, and the idea that function or power is all the same. But we can customize our aesthetics .

…

My infinity tool however is just flat out better than yours, doing what yours can do and more. Also it looks different.

Mine is better than yours because it as a more appealing effect. Mine is better than yours because it gathers quicker than yours. What’s ‘better’ is subjective.

What one player values, others pay not value. How many people would jump at the chance of a set of gathering tools that gave additional broken spoons over one that looked incredible to them? How about tools which gathered quicker? It’s all subjective. Just because one item offers something that others don’t, doesn’t all of a sudden make it superior.

Lokki.1092:

The OP is talking about function. Everything in the game is set up so that we all have the same power and function but can chose how we like the look of that power to be displayed. The infinity gathering tools are just skins, skins and re-skins of the same object, a tool that “replaces your ________ on any character. It has unlimited uses and works on all _______ nodes”

The new infinity tools run counter to this philosophy. As far as I’m concerned it is no different than if they put in a new tier of legendary weapons that had more sigil slots, if they added new gliding skins that increased glide endurance by 100%, or if they added new finishers that could hit multiple opponents. The horizontal progression is broken.

Now we have a new tier of tools, and infinite tools that are flat out better functionally than those that we had before.

I know full well what the OP is complaining about and I disagree with it being an issue. There’s more to the value of an item than just its function. If that wasn’t the case then everyone would choose the a set that gave out snowflakes. Do you think that everyone would choose that? No. Not everyone values additional items over everything else. We’re looking at the value of the tool(s) overall and not just arbitrarily focusing on one aspect while ignoring everything else.

Not to mention that the break-even for those tools, if bought with gold, is around 75K nodes. If you farmed a node every 10 seconds, it would take you 8.7 days of non-stop farming to break-even. During that time, had you spent that amount of game time farming Bitterfrost instead, you’d have earned 1.25M unbound magic which is about three times more. You’re spending gold, or giving up the opportunity for gold, in order to have an inferior way to obtain UM or to get them passively in which you’re likely to never break even.

If gathering from lots of nodes is part of your daily routine, and will continue to be so into the far future, the new infinite UM tools may be worth it.

If you don’t have gathering tools at all, the new infinite UM tools would be worth it.

For all other cases, it’s not worth it from a cost:value perspective. Players that casually gather from nodes won’t see much of an increase in UM. Those going out of their way specifically to gather more are wasting they time as Bitterfrost Frontier is more efficient and the 5-7 minutes it takes to run a character through the map would likely yield more than a player would earn during a day’s play session of gathering.

This is all from the aspect of getting a bonus from gathering. There are still more reasons to go for the other tools such as for animations or for those that are quicker. Alll of those, including the value of the bonuses, are subjective. What matters to one person won’t necessarily matter to another. Would everyone that values the new tools specifically because of the UM feel the same if it were broken spoons instead? How about blade shards? Probably not.

Astralporing.1957:

And? what does that have to do with the old tools being objectively inferior to the new ones?

On one hand you have a tool that gives you a certain QoL. On other hand you have a tool that offers you the same QoL and a few extras. The second one is just plain better.

Not if you’re trading off a more preferred visual effect instead for very tiny gains per swing.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

@Ayrilana: that doesn’t actually address what OP said in the slightest.

It does because they can get the exact same bonus from those. It takes so long to break-even with the new infinite gathering tools that players that have other versions are better off using the ones from the LS3 maps.

Read his post again, because you’re only making his point even stronger.

No, I’m not. If players feel the need to equip every character with infinite tools, they can still go with whichever visually appeals to them. If they want unbound magic then there are vendors that sell ones with charges.

The cost to buy them with gold is so high that it’ll take a very long time to break even before you’re actually gaining anything from the addtional unbound magic. Even longer if you’re buying them for multiple characters.