Guild Wars 2

Impact.2780:

Azukas.1426:

For instance if I see a thief on my team I tend to tell everyone to play for 2 points only while the thief worries about decaps on far. I find this the best strategy for me when getting paired up with a thief player, but you have to remember when you are paired with a thief you best be able to hold fights while he/she does it’s job.

But when your team can’t win the mid fight, just leaving far to the thief does not work. You have to rotate. Play 2 points yes but not always the same 2 – play the 2 easiest to win, and bail points that are being pushed heavily by 3-4 unless you have a strong advantage such as having one about to go down as 2 arrive.

As an example, I had yet another druid, dh, double necro with me on thief comp yesterday, vs a stronger comp. Sure I decapped far, but the other team eventually capped mid, my guys kept dying, only after they started to listen to me about rotating far to take ADVANTAGE of the decaps and sometimes full caps I’d got, and split the stronger team fight comp up to force smaller fights, did we make a comeback. They caught on very well and we started rotating between mid and far, and having our druid near mid watching close. It works wonders when team mates actually listen to the thief instead of rage at it. Of course, we then almost lost because 2 guys decided once we’d got a 3 cap that it was time to push lord despite all the enemy respawning, which meant creating the situation that had been losing us the match for the first half – guess they didn’t catch on 100%. Luckily, we got the lord kill before wiping though.

I’m talking PUGs. Go with the easiest plan so confusion doesn’t happen.

Playing sides due to losing mid can be decided ingame

The problem with Warriors and Thieves is the actual team needs to understand what they need to do to play to the strengths of these classes.

Most times in Ranked you are matched up with PUGs and PUGs can’t get identify what they need to change about their game play to take advantage of these 2 classes strengths.

For instance if I see a thief on my team I tend to tell everyone to play for 2 points only while the thief worries about decaps on far. I find this the best strategy for me when getting paired up with a thief player, but you have to remember when you are paired with a thief you best be able to hold fights while he/she does it’s job.

As for a warrior I tend to ask them how they are built then go with the strategy from there. It really depends on how they are built to what strategy you use tbh.

So knowing this I kinda have to agree with the OP on this one. These two classes are weak in today’s game, and in most situations the player who queues on them is putting their team at a disadvantage. Do I agree with how it is right now? No, but it is what it is.

Burtnik.5218:

Azukas.1426:

The minute after they realize blade and soul killed thier esports dream…

I remember how Wildstar was supposed to kill gw2 too and here we are.. however i agree that gw2 is not really a good candidate for esport title. I guess they should create new pvp only focused game if they truly aim on esporuuutt. There is no way to balance the skills across 3 game modes.

Actually there is. You balance classes based on PvP…then balance PvE based off your class balance.

For example let’s say you decide in PvP you need to reduce the overall durability of the classession you’d then reduce the PvE contents damage to compensate.

Shocker I know

The minute after they realize blade and soul killed thier esports dream…

Stop playing period.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Yes.

• Dhuumfire on release. Necromancers went from low tier to unbeatable Gods. Class variety was completely destroyed and you had entire teams of necromancers. Try having a meta where EVERYONE was forced to play necromancer. This event was also known as the Day of Dhuumfire, PvP community was absolutely destroyed to this kittenly overpowered ‘buff’.

• The buff to immobilize was stupidly annoying and frustrating as hell, 20+ seconds of being stuck depending on who focuses you, combined with the immobilize bug; if you were immobilized while in the air the result was you couldn’t use any skills, basically a super stun. This particularly made Battle of Kyolo and Skyhammer nothing short of being a complete unfun and frustrating nightmare when half your deaths was because of the bug.

• Launch guardians/thieves. There was a time thieves could land a 27k backstab and guardians could survive an onslaught of 4 people bashing them. Thought chronobunkers were bad? A thiefs backstab would land ~1k damage on a bunker guardian and 20k+ on anything squishy. A class that can 1-shot anyone and a class that can survive a nuke strike to the face all in one meta, it was messy.

This meta is really bad, but at least you don’t get killed because you walked down a ledge and got stuck for 12 seconds. EEEEEEEEEEESPPPPPPUUUUURTZ

ArenaNet always suffered to balance since day 1, heck, even GW1 had serious balance issues.

At least people died and matches were finished with a 500 score. This meta is the worst due to it being so kitten boring. There are zero “OMG what a play” moments like previous metas. Its literally watching paint dry with extremely colorful spell effects.

I hate seeing warriors in this state, and firmly believe anet needs to give them a boost. My honest assessment is they are just missing something to propel them forward.

It’s not a lot IMHO, and I do think if they kept them unchanged yet nerfed all the HoT power creep they’d be viable.

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

Everyone talking about thieves being able to “1v1” stuff, get over yourself, that was over a year ago and a half, when you could successfully 1v1 everything in spvp as a thief. Probably even close to two years.

If you guys think balancing pvp that so thieves should be able to 1v1 you are just fools, that would be just crazy.

If you are a good player, you could 1v1 certain classes as a thief easily, but that’s not your role which you need to accept.

I have a couple of issues with this statement coming from you.

First you don’t even play a thief in Pro League anymore due to what i’m assuming is your opinion that they aren’t viable.

Second you site that thieves haven’t been able to 1v1 reliably for 1/2 of the games lifespan. This means that they’ve only continued to be played due to +1 and decap ability.

So after connecting the dots of those 2 facts and getting the conclusion that (according to you) thieves strengths of +1 and decap are no longer strengths to keep them being played. We already know they can’t 1v1 or contribute reliably in team fights.

Now I have to ask this question:

Why are you coming on so strong to fellow thieves when you know all their gripes are legit and founded in facts? Even Toker, who completely outclassed you in last WTS, switched to revenant. The only “big name” thief who refuses to give up thief was basically asked to leave his team due to not wanting to switch off thief.

I think you’re a good player and respect your opinion….I just wonder why you would make these statements when your guys class is in such dire straights.

You guys can have your opinion about a fellow thief outclassing me, I will never mind that – but i think you should at first compare the compositions before speaking. That is all. Think about what we played, thats all i ask for. You guys are incredibly short sighted when it comes to small details, It’s alright.

Good to see your ego still intact. Just I would hide it a bit more since Toker was crowned MVP while you were a non factor. Be that as it may I do respect the skill you have…moving on

I would gladly and I find thief exceptionally strong in this current meta but what my team and I wants might not always be on the same page, I will always play to my teams needs, I feel thief was really weak in start of HoT because no one knew the capabillity of other classes/weaknesses. But if you do look at my stream/vods you will see how much a thief could excel in this meta if played right, of course there are other options that are more appealing by far. Does that mean thief is weak? Hell no, thief is incredibly strong just as necro used to be in the old meta a long time ago but no one could play around a necro, you need to play around the thief if you want it to be successful.

Ok I underlined your statements which completely negate your argument about thief being fine, and must point out if thief was fine why have every pro team give up on them?

Let me counter it, do you think it would be healthy in a gamemode where a thief could 1v1 any class in this game? To me it sounds so broken in so many ways possible.

My personal belief is every class should have a 50/50 chance 1v1 vs every class in this game. I personally believe all encounters should rely on player skill not the class they choose. So yes I believe a thief should be able to 1v1 anyone. I also believe all the other classes should enjoy that luxury as well.

I find myself being able to 1v1 classes as reapers/revenants successfully, do you agree i should be able to kill bunkers too then? So i’m unstoppable in 1v1s?

If you are more skilled than your opponent then yes you deserve to be unstoppable. It shouldn’t matter which class you play, but how well you play it. Currently we have players give up their main class to play completely new classes and excel way more than their old class. This is stupid and bad game design. Also if you are killing reapers/revs 1v1 its not because thief is strong but more telling of those players skill level vs yours

Why im coming on so strong is people look back 2 years when S/D was meta, when the builds were all so slow paced where thieves could easily kill certain builds 1v1 because nothing else would die around the map

I notice you like to bring up thief in the past. 2 years ago this 1.5 yrs ago that. You do realize that the amount of time you say thief was OP/Godly/etc is less time then they’ve been extremely weak? Game is only 3 years old mate. You’ve already admitted to thieves only being in the meta for the longest time due to decap +1. I think it’s time to reevaluate your position.

I think teams are too afraid to pickup thief which is only natural because it is much higher risk compared to easier/secure “professions” as revenants. But imo a strong thief would still outshine a rev if you played it 99% of its capabilities.

While I respect your opinion I must say you’re wrong. Think about this. All the pro thieves have thousands of hours playing thief. They are contributing more on lets just say revenant with a FRACTION of the time invested. Seriously do you honestly think that is acceptable that someone would not play the class that they know how to handle every situation to play a class that is completely new to them? No that speaks volumes about the state of the thief class.

Biggest example is people wants thieves to be buffed, do you understand how crazy that sounds when thieves already are so strong in the task they SHOULD shine in?

Just having “berserker” classes being able to take any 1v1 wouldn’t bring balance to SPVP at all.

They don’t shine in the task they should shine in. If they did you’d see at least ONE of them being played in pro league. The fact is you do not. Even the current world champion team gave up on thief. If thief was strong teams would build around them instead of A. Switch classes or B. Kick thief player from team

Yes I do believe a class wearing marauder amulet should be able to take any 1v1, because you already have scrappers doing it.

My reply is in bold to keep down length

Honestly they need to nerf all elite specs to the levels of Daredevil and Beserker.

Those are the ONLY balanced elite specs in this game. I’m not even going to get into which builds are super OP and need nerfed, because all of them need to get pummeled with the nerf bat repeatedly

Michael.9517:

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Spec’d right, a thief has a decent chance to beat condi rev, its probably the only class they can 1v1.

And what spec is this persay b/c when I play condi rev I don’t see this.

And I suck.

bluri.2653:

Everyone talking about thieves being able to “1v1” stuff, get over yourself, that was over a year ago and a half, when you could successfully 1v1 everything in spvp as a thief. Probably even close to two years.

If you guys think balancing pvp that so thieves should be able to 1v1 you are just fools, that would be just crazy.

If you are a good player, you could 1v1 certain classes as a thief easily, but that’s not your role which you need to accept.

I have a couple of issues with this statement coming from you.

First you don’t even play a thief in Pro League anymore due to what i’m assuming is your opinion that they aren’t viable.

Second you site that thieves haven’t been able to 1v1 reliably for 1/2 of the games lifespan. This means that they’ve only continued to be played due to +1 and decap ability.

So after connecting the dots of those 2 facts and getting the conclusion that (according to you) thieves strengths of +1 and decap are no longer strengths to keep them being played. We already know they can’t 1v1 or contribute reliably in team fights.

Now I have to ask this question:

Why are you coming on so strong to fellow thieves when you know all their gripes are legit and founded in facts? Even Toker, who completely outclassed you in last WTS, switched to revenant. The only “big name” thief who refuses to give up thief was basically asked to leave his team due to not wanting to switch off thief.

I think you’re a good player and respect your opinion….I just wonder why you would make these statements when your guys class is in such dire straights.

Shovel Face.4512:

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Tell that to the many ppl I’ve 1v1ed and beat

Back when S/D thief hard countered mesmer I beat a lot of S/D thieves. Get my point?

Vornollo.5182:

Azukas.1426:

Not trying to say those people are right per say, but in a ways they are. For a thief to properly work in PvP it requires the other 4 players to be able to 4v5 and let the thief freely roam the battlefield. Those other 4 players will have to rotate properly as well.

Now what do we know about all the meta specs that are in this game? They are brainless low skill high reward builds. You don’t have to think while playing these builds.

So why would you expect these players to meet the criteria that allows a thief to be an asset?

Do you see what I’m getting at? In the PUG world of PvP ladders thief is actually a detriment to the team. Its hard to have them play 2 points while the thief does his job. I will state though it takes an extremely good thief to succeed in today’s game as well.

p.s. Also no one in the pro league is using a thief as well. You had Toker play 1 round on Kyhlo, and the Abjured didn’t roll them nearly as handily as they did w/out the thief.

He also played it on Temple where they completely steamrolled the others.
They also had the interview after where it’s pretty clear that they didn’t have a close match because of the Thief, but rather due to trying some new ideas in terms of strategy and/or rotating.

I agree with what you say though, there’s indeed a massive difference between pug PvP and pro PvP. That’s exactly why your exmple is a bit peculiar… Especially considering a fair number of pro-league players actually do pug-PvP on a Thief. But really, there’s just no point in cherry picking to make a point (even though it’s a rotten cherry…)

Last match they didn’t play temple.

When was the last time you saw those guys solo q? They all q with amber to cheat the system due to refusing to sit in 20 mins q

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Not trying to say those people are right per say, but in a ways they are. For a thief to properly work in PvP it requires the other 4 players to be able to 4v5 and let the thief freely roam the battlefield. Those other 4 players will have to rotate properly as well.

Now what do we know about all the meta specs that are in this game? They are brainless low skill high reward builds. You don’t have to think while playing these builds.

So why would you expect these players to meet the criteria that allows a thief to be an asset?

Do you see what I’m getting at? In the PUG world of PvP ladders thief is actually a detriment to the team. Its hard to have them play 2 points while the thief does his job. I will state though it takes an extremely good thief to succeed in today’s game as well.

p.s. Also no one in the pro league is using a thief as well. You had Toker play 1 round on Kyhlo, and the Abjured didn’t roll them nearly as handily as they did w/out the thief.

twojackson.5607:

Yea best class period is Druid. 1v1 1v2 1v3 team play all of that. Ive been using the same build for about 20 solo matches and Ive only lost 3 times when one of my teammates left mid game. Rev sucks, necro is hilarious since the people using most of the “OP meta builds” aren’t really clever. Someone already said it: study meta battle builds and learn their counter. Thats a good way.

I’ve been ranger main since launch. And ranger has ALWAYS been the top class. So much variety and at the current moment, my druid build doesn’t die 1v2. I win them. Can’t wait for yet another druid nerf. I love wasting my money on expansions only to have my class shafted. Nerf all you want Anet, I am better than you.

So you 1st state that ranger/druid is OP as kitten then express anger about nerfs.

Oh and also claim extreme skill.

So we should gut the class down to warrior/thief level and you’d be ok with that

Go norn they got bigger boobs

So since you are now legendary you should be paired up with other high MMR players.

So uhh they should all,know how to rotate where you are queueing at.

Nocta.5274:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Nocta.5274:

Azukas.1426:

For all the people who claim thief was OP at some point in time I ask them this one question:

“When in the entire history of GW2 was taking 2 thieves meta?”

Thank You

Tell me, before HoT, when was not taking a thief even a possibility ?

No need to lie between ourselves, we were great for a long time.

Yes to the first quote, less so to the second.

Yes, thieves were great for a long time, that much is true.

However, their use in PVP was moreso because they were the only class that could stealth decap (and the quickest to do so at that), rather than being a decent class for solo combat or small scale fights overall.

They were “mandatory” because if you didn’t have one the thief on the other team would backcap everything without having a counter. It was game utility rather than class advantage.

Thieves may have seemed to be (and, I concede, were) good back when they were the only class able to fill the role they were forced into but their imbalance against other classes became apparent when two thieves were on any one team. At that point the game became a 4v5 due to the thief’s lack in skirmish potential.

The only thing that has changed between that time and now is that other classes can fill the thief’s role, and the thief now has reduced effectiveness against the other classes due to the bunker meta.

The problem was always there, the new meta just exacerbated it.

Did you play during the S/D glory days ? We were the BEST 1v1 class around, no contest. The meta was determined by picking classes that could survive to the build, wasn’t even about beating it.

No they weren’t the best 1v1 class around.

They pretty much cropped on my main (mesmer) but they weren’t the best

For all the people who claim thief was OP at some point in time I ask them this one question:

“When in the entire history of GW2 was taking 2 thieves meta?”

Thank You

Kevin.4209:

brannigan.9831:

Grats on being able to play spvp 25-30 hours a week and that could be a generous understatment as I probably under counted your average queue time and length of match.

Did you expect that the highest pvp achievement currently in the game would be attainable by casuals?

Actually you can’t fault anyone thinking this due to the meta only requiring casual levels of skill to win

Thanks for the guide and next season I’ll make sure to no-life the game x 3 weeks while exploiting the most broken classes ever to see the light of day in GW2.

I mean Gratz on legendary and getting there and all, but I feel the best thing your guide shows is what’s broken in this,game now

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

When on Thief-

So long as my team can follow instructions, take and hold home/mid, then I can do my support/decap role and we’ll win.

When my team can’t babysit a point and/or dies loosing mid etc, it’s a road harder traveled -_-u

You dont play thief though

xD

I’ve been running this for the occasional tier
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVn8lCFNhNNBGmCsPhFZCjLQ1C2BzdwQYKUbPNFCAA-TZxBQBGc/hldKAAwDAwLlBwwRAAA

Uhh I can’t even….

Ross Biddle.2367:

When on Thief-

So long as my team can follow instructions, take and hold home/mid, then I can do my support/decap role and we’ll win.

When my team can’t babysit a point and/or dies loosing mid etc, it’s a road harder traveled -_-u

You dont play thief though

Burtnik.5218:

brannigan.9831:

Burtnik.5218:

I que sometimes with a friend whos playing thief. Hes dangerous 1v1 and can eat revs and necros for breakfast. Also good at +1 to jump in, burst someone in 2sec and go somewhere else. Ppl have no idea how strong DD is. Underrated class atm and thats olny bc majority of thief community sux.

Almost no thieves play like this. Let me give you a rough outline how the average thief in spvp plays. Start the match by going to far to engage in pointless 1v1 and lose horribly to start match. Engage in as many meangingless 1v1s as possible during the match often on points the other team color that are guarded by people they can’t kill. Get involved in meaningless fights in the middle of the map off point. Get involved in big team fights and get zapped by random aoe. Cause everyone to rage with there incompetance. +1 one on side points and intelligent reading of the map to cap side points left open almost NEVER happens.

Thief community is to blame here tho. I know how average Joe plays. Most people that picked up thieves want to play it like rambo, they fail at it and screams thief sux. Good thief can be a gamechanger, i lost games and won just bc either me or my enemy had good thief that was keep decapping close/far. You basically have to let someone camp close in this situation forcing to 4v5.

LOL you really don’t know what you are talking about.

Shovel Face.4512:

So after testing both the meta build for engi and ele I can without a doubt confirm that Thief is a great class to have. playing with these builds I often found our team up by 100 points only to lose. Reason why we lost was because they would decap our home causing my team to overcommit to home. Ok now when my team and I have secured mid and home it would usually be 250-150. Then after they decap our home I’m left to defend mid. I end up losing mid to a 3v1 while my team takes back home. However we never are able to take back mid and we end up losing 500-350ish. This a full 200ish point swing. And I kitten you not this has happened multiple times not just once. Like I would not feel comfortable even with a 200 point lead while playing engi or ele. And now I’m sitting there asking myself wtf just happened, why did we lose when we had both home and mid?

This is where if I was playing thief I could have took back home by myself, allowing my team to defend mid or I could have decaped far forcing a player to come to me. This would have definitely prevented the numerous embarrassing 200 point swings. On top of that I feel extremely comfortable with even a 50 point lead while playing thief.

So yeah thief ain’t bad, l2p

How are you left on mid alone? It doesn’t take 4 ppl to kill 1 thief

What is happening is you are going for the 3 cap and they are killing the people at far then sending 3 mid 2 far. It’s not a thief beating you but more you beating yourselves

geekilo.8512:

@Azukas- overtuned? on the power side yes. Mesmer still dont have a decent condi build like other classes. Condition removal is a huge issue for mesmer unless you run inspiration with mantra.

Getting better performance for less input.

How does Chronobunker not die to condi?

Too little too late

I hope that you can entice the players who haven’t quite your game to return to playing WvW, but generally speaking once you lose people in the MMO world you lose em for good.

kybraga.7103:

^ Pretty much only DH’s complaining since I can easily tell if they’re facerolling traps, and since I pretty can always time my bursts… And trick people, they get salty ‘Sour/upset.’ and just say my build is cheese. XD

We knew this was going to happen. Currently even if you greatly out skill your opponent they will view a loss to you as you cheesing it up.

Are mesmers still over tuned? I believe the majority of GW2 players will say yes, and we as mesmer players have to realize this.

Agemnon.4608:

It has heavy initiative cost so the skill balances out. I notice some thieves using shortbow 5 to rush ahead to a node at the start and I’m like dude, you’ll need that initiative for your actual damage and debuff abilities.

Not being a thief myself I can support that thief player based on what can actually happen.

He’ll beat the opposing teams player to the node or arrive at the same time. This prevents Far from being capped, and since this isn’t pro league play it will allow your team to cap Home while stalemating Mid. A good thief player can ensure you start ticking points before they do which gives your team an advantage, and also get away leaving that enemy player at home to join mid.

So what that means is your team is currently ticking at home with an imminent 5v4 at mid b/c they have to finish capping home.

Unfortunately for the thief players Anet has made the thief a complete non factor. In the pro league only 1 team ran thief, and they only ran it on Kyhlo (thief friendly to the max). Now they won the match handily, but you could tell they would have done better if Toker was back on Rev.

So while I agree that you have to be extremely good at thief to make it work, the problem remains is that you can do much more as a non thief class. Even in instances where you on thief greatly out skill your opponents, because you on rev/scrapper/etc. where you greatly out skill your opponents benefits your team more.

Now where skill is in the same ball park you are a detriment to your team.

I applaud the rage quit.

That one player acting like a child highlights everything that is wrong with this game currently.

kittenty kittening balance geared towards a meta that is akin to watching paint dry.

Was what he did morally wrong? Yes

Did he do it to prove a point? Prolly not

Did his action transcend his initial intent and further drag into the light everything we’ve been saying for the past months? Yes

So for that I applaud his childish yet truthful actions, because let’s face it. If the meta was different they would of had a chance to come back

tetrodoxin.2134:

Disable elite specs in PvP until they’re all fixed.

Best suggestion so far.

No elite specs allowed in Pro or Ranked play

Ross Biddle.2367:

messiah.1908:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Can confirm: Tea running ranged DPS druid + my p/p venomshare thief = dead Chrono bunker XD

have you tried venom share and mm or rise necro?

I don’t even know what that means

Anyway, there’s a nice easy takedown of a chrono doing his thing at mid in this fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL0SnGDCP5c

I can’t even start with everything that is wrong with this.

I will just go with i now understand why you post the way you do

Good day

Silverkey.2078:

The chrono block nerf was highly needed (this skill was by far the best block of the whole game). But the strongest nerf to bunker chrono is actually the fact that they nerfed condi rev.

Condi rev took a bit hit. That will allow damage classes that were shut down by condi rev to come back = more damage. In particular, DH which can really mess with bunker mesmer may come back.

Rev won’t be able to deny downed cleave = more death. Bunker mesmer was particularly good at rezzing because nobody could cleave

This patch won’t completely fix the stupid power-creeped meta, but I suspect it will be a big step on the right direction.

As a fan of PvP and GW2 I never want to see a meta like this of having a remote chance in hell of ever returning…so

Over nerf mesmers please.

Kill diamond skin.

Destroy all the new passive power creep that was made.

And yes my main is a mesmer

eldenbri.1059:

I don’t play the bunker- well build, but isn’t it possible for ArenaNet to tune things a little by adjusting the cooldowns on those skills?

The reduction in block duration on the shield looks like an incremental change that will probably works out all right.

Seems like there are small changes possible that should work fine

The problem is if you don’t play bunker you are doing your team a disservice.

So unless you are queueing unranked you should be playing to win

PowerBottom.5796:

I see tons of problems with the current meta in ways that certain balance-attempts could just make things much worse:

1) A lot of builds are extremely strong, ridiculously strong even, like Reaper and DH, but it just happens that the metabuilds counter them very well. They nerfed resistance on Rev (a good nerf, not too much, not too little), imagine the nerf being a bit bigger and ANet giving in to the forums to nerf diamond skin: booom, 2 condition-reapers per team!

2) Maybe they also nerf the tons of blur/block/evades and stability on mesmer and rev. Boooom: 2 DH-Trappers per team.

The whole reason why most builds work is hinged upon 1 trait that can be looked at as very OP that counters sth. else that would otherwise be very OP.

I have to say though, that the few balance changes that are planned for today are IMHO pretty good: severe enough to make teams have a bit more choices in what to play, but not severe enough to totally shift the meta on it’s head just so the new imba-fotm’s rule for the next 2 months.

I’ll take that over this snore fest they call pro league any day of the week and twice on sundays!

As for the OP I get a sense that he’s very into low skill high reward builds.

Supreme.3164:

Azukas.1426:

Thief don’t 1 shot anyone anymore. They have been officially removed off the “Extreme Burst” list.

Also even if we removed thieves from the game (why you focus,on such a insignificant class for you argument is beyond me) no one would play glass period. In fact going back to the last few metal this fact remains the same due to bunkers/bruisers far outclassing glass in terms of effectiveness.

Heck even in 1v1s most glass builds were stronger vs a thief.

The bunker specs need to go. The masses have spoken and will be assuring anet feels their displeasure in their pockets.

The masses don’t get how balance process works, a balance process centered around overall forum happiness rather than objective decision, it’s a two face coin

If you nerf one side only, the other side will become the overperforming one, resulting in its eventual nerf soon or later; if you nerf bunkers..then burst will become too much to handle..and the masses will speak again :-)

The masses have preaching since HoT’s release that this terrible meta will come about. They also stated chrono, rev, and Tempest are over performing.

Look at who’s right?

Look at which who’s choice of balance has created the game killing meta of today.

I don’t know which class you play but I main a mesmer. I say nerf me into the ground because a healthy gw2 pvp scene is FAR greater than my personal class preference.

Thief don’t 1 shot anyone anymore. They have been officially removed off the “Extreme Burst” list.

Also even if we removed thieves from the game (why you focus,on such a insignificant class for you argument is beyond me) no one would play glass period. In fact going back to the last few metal this fact remains the same due to bunkers/bruisers far outclassing glass in terms of effectiveness.

Heck even in 1v1s most glass builds were stronger vs a thief.

The bunker specs need to go. The masses have spoken and will be assuring anet feels their displeasure in their pockets.

Fay.2357:

Anyway, all pointing and laughing aside, the only thing calling for “killing” of a class does is demonstrate a severe case of lack of redacted to avoid infraction. I’m sure you all can fill in the gaps.

No please do

Yes it is,a crappy,thing to do to a class. I completely agree.

Problem is anet refused to balance us. They ignored glaring OP chrono bunker spec and now we are faced with a situation that makes the original kitten fire look like a,great idea.

This has the potential to fatally wound what’s left of this game’s pvp.

Kill my class instead please

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Azukas.1426:

Sorry guys but we need to be gutted.

This pains me to say this about our class but for the good of the game we need to be gutted until anet can realistically implement chronomancers

Noone wants it here I get that but watching the pro league just confirms it.

Btw tempest/rev need the exact same treatment but I don’t main those classes

Nothing needs to be gutted. Ever.
No class, not DD Ele, not Rev, not chronobunker, not DH, not kittening turret engineer needs to be gutted to resolve balance issues.

Making a powerful class into a crappy class is and was totally unwarranted in every single balance situation that this game has ever been in.

Your response is the usual overreacting twaddle of people who flap their lips and fingers without understanding what they are looking at.

Balance can be achieved by reducing power. Insisting that they “gut” a class is just stupidity of the highest level. Get out.

Even the best team in the world went with the cancer comp. Sorry but it has to happen.

It sucks I know it…trust me I do

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

watching the pro league

While I’m sure you and the 2 other people watching the streams might agree, the game has a much bigger userbase then you 3 and they don’t care about esports.

The rest left in disgust…

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Sorry guys but we need to be gutted.

This pains me to say this about our class but for the good of the game we need to be gutted until anet can realistically implement chronomancers

Noone wants it here I get that but watching the pro league just confirms it.

Btw tempest/rev need the exact same treatment but I don’t main those classes

Eh, short sighted balancing if that’s your conclusion.

Yes it is because the state of PvP is emergent if anet wants to salvage it.

So for the good of the game this needs to happen. Even if they miraculously balanced bunker chrono the population will NEVER see it. So you need to delete it to appease your fans

Listen I don’t like it either but it has to happen

What did you expect?!?!!

Them to play an inferior comp possibly passing up on thousands of dollars to appease you?

Im glad they did this….maybe we’ll get a REAL patch

Sorry guys but we need to be gutted.

This pains me to say this about our class but for the good of the game we need to be gutted until anet can realistically implement chronomancers

Noone wants it here I get that but watching the pro league just confirms it.

Btw tempest/rev need the exact same treatment but I don’t main those classes

This won’t change anything.

Once again anet is failing to see what needs to be done

Sunshine.5014:

I warned about this extreme bunker problem a while ago, but no one took it seriously.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-needs-to-be-fun-to-play-watch/first

Just like I warned about the tanking MMR problem 4 months, and no one took it seriously.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/HoT-league-encourages-people-to-throw-matches/first

My only hope now is that they won’t swing the meta too hard to extreme burst, since that’s bad too.

Its more watchable than this kitten they’ve created

The best part of the stream is reading the comments

Lol

The horrible meta that is currently plaguing GW2.

Nerf Mesmers, Eles, and Revs into uselessness. Gut the those classes into an unplayable state.

Yes I main mesmer btw and I admit this needs to be done for the good of the game.

Everyone else who mains ele/mes we need to understand what needs to happen