Guild Wars 2

Foggy.9213:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Necro’s

LOL

LOL PvE

/15

Evilek.5690:

I have one question. Who test this patche before release ?

Revenant with full berserker gear and full DPS build vs Thief with same armor/traits.

Thief

Dagger AA DPS – 6k!!!!!
Sword AA DPS – 4.6k
Staff AA DPS 4.7k

Revenant

Sword AA DPS 3.2k !!!

I’m all for calling out OP kitten in this game for the good of the game, but there isn’t a thief running that competitively.

I’m sure everyone here is willing to forget you posting this one and letting it slide…

Let’s get some predictions here on the following items:

1. Amount of time post patch until we see 1st mesmer dead b/c Anet hates us thread.

2. GG anet ele ded for 1 yr again thread.

3. Necro OP nerf meow thread!

4. OMFG you broke PvP thread

5. WTFUBUFFTHIEFTHEYOMGWTFOPNOW #GUTTHIEFNOW

Discuss

Scrappers should not have the access to stealth that they currently do. With the amount of blocks, passives, invulns, etc stealth is too strong. Remember the PUesmers? Same thing except engies are always favored by this dev team.

I’d say stealth gyro needs a 120 sec CD, revealed applied on exit just like SR, and significantly smaller health pool.

I laugh every time I see that video

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Azukas.1426:

I can’t believe ppl base thier opinion off of WvW

LOL

why is this funny?

Its not balanced nor do they balance the game based off it only in extreme select circumstances.

Knowing this since 2012 I find it amusing people still call for class changes based off it. LOL

Something is seriously wrong with thier match making. I wish the MMR on everyone would get released.

I can’t believe ppl base thier opinion off of WvW

LOL

mrauls.6519:

Why can’t we see our MMR? We should be able to.

This on soooo many levels

Maugetarr.6823:

Azukas.1426:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cynz.9437:

She wants shadowshot to get nerfed. I do not see how it is justified given thief state in pvp right now (and even after patch). Her idea of destroying thief completely for the sake of eventual rework (that will probably never come) is also silly because by the time devs actually come up with something and implement it, a lot of time would pass and most remaining thief players would quit this game.

The only thing that could be nerfed on shadowshot is the damage. The argument could (and has) been made that the damage is too high for the utility. That said, it’s not dominating other classes. It has a 1.31 multiplier which is somewhere between a mid and high level heartserker. This could be brought down to a 1.1 or 1.2 making it roughly equivalent to (current) dagger autoattack DPS.

Due to the large amount of AoE and blocks, I would also recommend removing the directionality of Tactical Strike and Backstab and rename backstab to Unsuspecting Strike, but that’s a topic for a different day.

1. skill on DP and PD do the same damage tho….

I’ve actually gotten power bursted to down from sneak attack>shadow atrike>steal>shadow strike.

True, but the difference is that it takes utilities to repeat shadowstrike repeatedly as it ports you away whereas shadowshot ports you to them.

DP needs to be close whereas PD needs distance. Both work towards the sets goals doing the same damage.

Either way neither skill needs a nerf in anyway shape or form

Maugetarr.6823:

Cynz.9437:

She wants shadowshot to get nerfed. I do not see how it is justified given thief state in pvp right now (and even after patch). Her idea of destroying thief completely for the sake of eventual rework (that will probably never come) is also silly because by the time devs actually come up with something and implement it, a lot of time would pass and most remaining thief players would quit this game.

The only thing that could be nerfed on shadowshot is the damage. The argument could (and has) been made that the damage is too high for the utility. That said, it’s not dominating other classes. It has a 1.31 multiplier which is somewhere between a mid and high level heartserker. This could be brought down to a 1.1 or 1.2 making it roughly equivalent to (current) dagger autoattack DPS.

Due to the large amount of AoE and blocks, I would also recommend removing the directionality of Tactical Strike and Backstab and rename backstab to Unsuspecting Strike, but that’s a topic for a different day.

1. skill on DP and PD do the same damage tho….

I’ve actually gotten power bursted to down from sneak attack>shadow atrike>steal>shadow strike.

I main mesmer and my stance is thieves will not be God mode.

I’m ashamed of my fellow mesmer players who are posting this nonsense

Jana.6831:

Azukas.1426:

What you think and what reality is are 2 different things.

I’m pretty sure I know more about thief than you do being a mesmer main.

That’s likely, but you still know nothing about thief. So I don’t get your attitude in this thread. Either be constructive or leave.

This entire thread is not constructive but destructive in nature.

Warlord.9074:

Its favorable for Thiefs, and warriors. . Forcing other classes into squisher builds only helps warriors and thiefs.

Helps my mesmer too.

Truth be told we have to wait and see

Again we don’t have the full of it but the thief counter to mesmer died on June 23rd.

We are honestly going to have to see how this meta pans out because harder hitting auto’s aren’t causing me to kitten a brick.

Delete dble post

Jana.6831:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

“the one who needs to lose weight has got a chocolate bar” lol

anyway, the only real thing they can do is buff #3 because making buff’s to /d would mean buffing s/d and p/d which both still better then d/d. it is really hard to think of anything to help d/d in the weapon set, ad again buffing certain traits will again buff p/d and s/d. s/d is already getting a nice buff and we don’t want it too powerful for the sake of doing buff d/d. both weapons are really good alone but kinda crap together, just like p/p. ofc they both have their gimmic styles, unload spam or deathblossom spam.

I really think nerfing shadow shot is the best, easiest and cleanest way – D/P would likely still be good. Btw D/P is the kittenroach of thief – it survives nearly everything because the utility is so good. All other builds were deliberately nerfed in June, granted (pistol for pistol mainhand, condis thief has got access to, CnD dmg reduction, butchering of acro, butchering of SA – D/P is the set that can go by without SA the easiest. I’m not talking about D/D in this thread – for once – I’m talking about all thief builds (minus Elite).
All possible builds share some trait lines andbuffing them for the sake of this set make the other set possible OP – and D/P is “the other set” in most cases.
How acro and daredevil will work out with S/D after the patch is yet to be seen, but the problems D/P causes still remain.

What you think and what reality is are 2 different things.

I’m pretty sure I know more about thief than you do being a mesmer main.

1 question

Which class is the only class to be stacked up to 4 per team and win an ESL tournament?

Thanks

Jana.6831:

Azukas.1426:

SD

DP was later and for certain reasons

You do know that I’ve been around for 2 years, right?
P/D actually became the substitute for “D/D” (D/P was the “meta” before december ’13, not D/D). Then sizer brought S/D, then S/D was nerfed, then D/P became the meta once again.
Some history for you =)

ETA: Btw; we played what we liked not what was the most powerful – and before June that was still halfway possible although S/D had been nerfed too much. Still every fight would’ve been easier with D/P or P/D – but not everybody wants that – if I wanted easy fights I would’ve played cele ele

SD initially was used not with acro and evades but for the daze attack from stealth + insta shadow return.

Your problem with DP is based off your fight 1v1 with them. This is wrong and your opinion needs to be disregarded

Jana.6831:

Azukas.1426:

I don’t need to try thief b/c I’m a neutral 3rd party.

Tell you one thing tho. Ive never seen dp in meta pve or raids now.

Now here’s a history lesson for you. Since you WvW a lot which weaponset originally supplanted DD?

Wow a history lesson for me from someone who doesn’t know the thief weapon sets – now I’m curious – tell me as it’s your perception anyway

Edit: Typo

SD

DP was later and for certain reasons

Jana.6831:

Azukas.1426:

Commenting as a neutral 3rd party (mesmer here)

DP thieves are easily countered by 2 very basic game mechanics.

1. Dodge
2. Interrupt HS

Now that that’s out of the way I agree with promoting balance for the good of the game even if you call for your own class to be nerfed. Read my nerf Mesmer posts.

But DP is NOT in any way or shape OP. This thread is nothing but self serving self proclaimed elitists trying to enforce thier style of play on everyone else. You know this same exact type of thread popped up years ago and ultimately lead to BP nerf? One could even argue that these DD thieves inadvertently paved the path to the state in which thief now resides.

So if something is broken def call for balance…not this embarrassment of a thread though.

Well, then try thief for a bit – in PvE is enough and try the different weaponsets. Read the tooltips and learn the different playstyles and find that D/P is OP in comparison of every other thief build (without DrD/staff) right now.
And please read what I wrote again to get my point and don’t accuse me of being an elitist.

I don’t need to try thief b/c I’m a neutral 3rd party.

Tell you one thing tho. Ive never seen dp in meta pve or raids now.

Now here’s a history lesson for you. Since you WvW a lot which weaponset originally supplanted DD?

Commenting as a neutral 3rd party (mesmer here)

DP thieves are easily countered by 2 very basic game mechanics.

1. Dodge
2. Interrupt HS

Now that that’s out of the way I agree with promoting balance for the good of the game even if you call for your own class to be nerfed. Read my nerf Mesmer posts.

But DP is NOT in any way or shape OP. This thread is nothing but self serving self proclaimed elitists trying to enforce thier style of play on everyone else. You know this same exact type of thread popped up years ago and ultimately lead to BP nerf? One could even argue that these DD thieves inadvertently paved the path to the state in which thief now resides.

So if something is broken def call for balance…not this embarrassment of a thread though.

Typical over reaction from the ele players.

Remember how tempest was the worst elite ever?? How’d that turn out? June 23rd patch? Again how’d that turn out? In fact how about release when ele was “Oh so under powered”? I’ll answer how that turned out…DD ele build got discovered.

Ross Biddle.2367:

DeceiverX.8361:

Ananeos.4587:

This is Anet. You cannot deny that they have some sort of grudge against Mesmer and everything they do (which isn’t much) and tend to overnerf.

Clearly you have never played or really paid attention to the thief to make this claim. Thief is objectively the most nerfed class in the history of the game. Like all classes, however, some of these nerfs were completely justified, despite crying from people who claim certain aspects of the class were “fine” when in all honesty they were just blatantly overpowered.

Heard this said over, and over, and over again.

So I’ll respond the same as I did in the past, over, and over, and over again.

Quantity < Quality.

If they had nerfed it just once at the start really really well, then Thieves wouldn’t have this drum (MOST NERFS EVER FOR ALL TIME OMFGDKFKJH@*Y$*!!) to beat.

Funnily enough the one and only time Thieves have truly suffered wasnt from being nerfed to hard, but rather because everybody else got buffed to much.
~HoT Meta 2016

Actually reading thru the thief nerfs over the years the quality + quantity make mesmers look like anet’s golden child.

Infusion.7149:

As far as WvW : Chronomancer team-wide alacrity (All’s Well That Ends Well in particular , in combination with the Illusionary Avenger), should have half effectiveness on siege or something : right now it is so ridiculously strong when a WvW team is using close range catapults that I refuse to play my necro / ele when hitting keeps.

If they decrease the potency of alacrity from 66% to say 50% or even 25%, they ought to change the alacrity duration from shattering illusions to be slightly longer (as in removal of the +50% duration Improved Alacrity trait for something else). An alternative is for the shatters themselves to not be affected by alacrity. Mind Wrack is a culprit with its 12 base cooldown.

For PvP, Arenanet likely needs to look at inspiration’s Restorative Illusions , due to how often you can shatter with Mind Wrack. If you wanted to nerf bunker chrono you’d up the recharge on Inspiring Distortion to 15 + seconds & nerf the heal on Restorative Illusions (particularly the 0 illusion heal). Without Restorative Illusions you’re just relying on regeneration / block /evade (distortion) / protection on staff chaos armor if traited (Chaos Storm and every single Well except Gravity well can give you Chaos armor if you use Phase Retreat). In its current iteration, with an alacrity reduced recharge on Mind Wrack , you’re getting 800+ heals / condi cleanse on minimal cooldown. There was the foresight to add 15 cooldown to Illusionary Membrane but there’s no recharge on Restorative Illusions.

You are making huge assumptions. Thus the let’s wait for notes statement fits so well here.

Truth of the matter is this:

Anet dropped the ball when they let this meta even into the pro leagues. Everyone was clamoring how horrible this meta was/is. Anet chose to once again ignore the signs of imbalance and complete snoozefest that this meta is.

Pro league started and by week 2/3 the full bearing of kitten that this meta represents was in full swing. Anet should have gutted the meta right then and there, but no they left it.

They also chose to leave it in during the holiday break as well when once again they had the perfect opportunity to correct their mistakes.

Now here we are with 2 weeks of this terrible meta that anet has fostered waiting for a balance patch to save the day. So I say I welcome a patch, but am I the only one who thinks they’ll just F it up even more?? Just me???

Zenith.7301:

Azukas.1426:

Rome.7124:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Seriously everyone needs to stop thier kittening. Since June 23rd every big patch has made us top dog in this game.

Haha what?

Azukas.1426:

Think about the actual classes that are hurting (warrior/thief).

You mean the ones that are described as getting multiple substantial buffs in the preview?

I’m thinking your version of reality needs a second opinion.

No multiple substantial buffs were revealed. Stop with the drama. I mean someone stated that thieves will wreck us just by clicking on our names again….seriously they discussed buffing AAs….

The most alarming thing I saw was the buffing of necro/druid. Not feeling that but we’ll see.

So just cut it out and let’s see what happens.

Anet hasnt had good track record when it comes to Mesmers, you cant blame us for feeling negative. ANd I think you are underestimate how much “buffs” thieves will receive.

I’m calling it, Mesmers and Revenants will be nerfed out of meta.

Please name this track record that anet has.

As for thief the preview literally said auto attacks and acrobatics. Could there be more? Maybe but we don’t know.

Considering autoattacks constitute the majority of DPS of many classes, including the revenant’s broken kitten DPS autoattack (which is getting nerfed thank god), I don’t see how you can wave off autoattack increases.

Classes whose majority of competitive DPS comes from auto:

1- Revenant
2- Ranger mainhand sword (their only viable and very flawed weapon)
3- Condi necro, dagger necro, Reaper before 50% health Gravedigger spam.
4- Guardian
5- Staff daredevil
6- Dagger ele with lightning whip

In fact, most of the DPS inbalance in PvE in this game comes from the vast disparity in autoattack potency across the classes.

Easily because if they are auto attacking us they are standing in our wells playing to our strengths. If you can’t adjust your gameplay to account for a slight increase in thief auto attacks then you need to rethink your strat

Can you PLEASE fix your game. The MM is out of control along with losing pips for other players leaving the game is creating an atmosphere that isn’t something I want to partake in anymore. That’s sad…

So why not punish the one who leaves by -3 pips and leave the rest of us alone?
We already have to endure the absolute worst meta ever in the existence of gaming for another month (Gratz on that btw) so why can’t we get some QoL changes to the quitters/disconnects?

Heck you can penalize them 5 pips and give em to the winning team for all i care. Just stop penalizing your customer base who follows the rules.

Thanks in advance…

Losing 2 pips regardless of what the outcome is is NOT fine.

Tired of this Anet. Blade and Soul is looking more and more appealing everyday.

Fix it.

Myrias.8732:

Azukas.1426:

Please name this track record that anet has.

Maim the Disillusioned nerfed before it made it to live.
Duelists Discipline nerfed before it made it to live.
Confusing combatants removed before it made it to live.
Lost Time ICD added which killed its use most anywhere over Chronophantasma
Phantasmal Mage is still terrible
Scepter AA is still terrible

Most changes can be argued either way, so who am I to say which changes are inherently bad/good. I personally view the above as being the most pressing and recent changes made that are questionable.

Really that’s your list of recent transgressions against mesmers?

You do know that 1/2 of it was never released and only 1 point is an actual nerf….meanwhile chrono kills the game (along with rev)

Rome.7124:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Seriously everyone needs to stop thier kittening. Since June 23rd every big patch has made us top dog in this game.

Haha what?

Azukas.1426:

Think about the actual classes that are hurting (warrior/thief).

You mean the ones that are described as getting multiple substantial buffs in the preview?

I’m thinking your version of reality needs a second opinion.

No multiple substantial buffs were revealed. Stop with the drama. I mean someone stated that thieves will wreck us just by clicking on our names again….seriously they discussed buffing AAs….

The most alarming thing I saw was the buffing of necro/druid. Not feeling that but we’ll see.

So just cut it out and let’s see what happens.

Anet hasnt had good track record when it comes to Mesmers, you cant blame us for feeling negative. ANd I think you are underestimate how much “buffs” thieves will receive.

I’m calling it, Mesmers and Revenants will be nerfed out of meta.

Please name this track record that anet has.

As for thief the preview literally said auto attacks and acrobatics. Could there be more? Maybe but we don’t know.

Ananeos.4587:

This is Anet. You cannot deny that they have some sort of grudge against Mesmer and everything they do (which isn’t much) and tend to overnerf. Take Well of Precognition, which was used widely before, now is no longer used because it loses 75% of the point you stand on and has a 0.75 second cast time, making it the worst non-offensive/damaging stunbreaker with the highest cast time in the game. Don’t believe me? Look at every other stunbreaker each class has and compare it to Precognition.

As for understanding, Mesmer is my main. All masteries grinded, map completion, raids completed (besides Sabetha, still looking for a raid guild), and a hell of a lot of time played in pvp. I’d say I understand this class well enough.

wow for all the time you’ve spent on mesmer (no more than the rest of the mesmer mains since day 1) you really are out of touch with reality.

1st Anet does not have a grudge vs mesmers. Mesmers are not the most nerfed class in the game nor are they the class sitting in the corner getting zero updates. Here’s a news flash. By the time this supposedly end of the world nerf comes Mesmers will have enjoyed approximately 7 months of being among the top tier in terms of class strength. Thats not hating on a class that’s the complete opposite.

Also you need to realize our class has a history of being extremely broken over the life of this game. I have to credit arena net from keeping that brokeness out of PvP for the most part….one of the few things they got right.

2nd Well of Precog broke the game. It was stupid, and needed the nerf. I’m happy they did what they did, and yes I main mesmer.

From reading your post we can tell that you aren’t for competitive play, but play where you win because you have a significant advantage over everyone else. You like your easy mode. That’s fine and you are entitled to it. You just have to remember “for the good of the game” is a real thing, and the upcoming nerfs (and its just speculation) are justified.

tdlr: Let’s all suck it up and put our big boy pants on. We’ll be fine, and if you aren’t I’m sure some other class will become ezmode OP for you.

Thank You

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

Seriously everyone needs to stop thier kittening. Since June 23rd every big patch has made us top dog in this game. Wait until you read what’s coming at least before screaming that the sky is falling.

You mean when PvP consisted of 5 cele eles on each team and there response was to nerf Mesmer Greatsword?

That was after they nerfed our mantra CDs. Also 1v1 then mesmer could kill ele. The problem was stacking ele > all

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Seriously everyone needs to stop thier kittening. Since June 23rd every big patch has made us top dog in this game.

Haha what?

Azukas.1426:

Think about the actual classes that are hurting (warrior/thief).

You mean the ones that are described as getting multiple substantial buffs in the preview?

I’m thinking your version of reality needs a second opinion.

No multiple substantial buffs were revealed. Stop with the drama. I mean someone stated that thieves will wreck us just by clicking on our names again….seriously they discussed buffing AAs….

The most alarming thing I saw was the buffing of necro/druid. Not feeling that but we’ll see.

So just cut it out and let’s see what happens.

Seriously everyone needs to stop thier kittening. Since June 23rd every big patch has made us top dog in this game. Wait until you read what’s coming at least before screaming that the sky is falling.

Think about the actual classes that are hurting (warrior/thief). We sit here on our chrono’s laughing while they fail to kill us knowing full well that thier demise is assured. Is a shaving to us while a slight buff to them justified?

Yes.

So let’s wait for the actual notes

Warriors in truth do not need much to become viable. What really made them hurting so much is what the other classes got with HoT not what was nerfed on warrior.

That being said I hope they take a nice approach with warriors to slightly improve them while drastically nerfing all the other classes

We all knew Alacrity was going to get the nerf. How much remains to be seen, and I’m ok with it for the good of the game. I do like that quickness resses are now gone along with slowed stomps.

Now onto what I feel (and I’ll be making enemies here) to be very alarming. Any buff to scepter makes me scared. I’d rather see Sword buffs on both MH and OH. Maybe a something for focus as well.

Not scepter. Let’s steer our beloved class to a less cancerous land where skill matters.

AegisFLCL.7623:

Khenzy.9348:

Did I just read they are planning on buffing Thieves AA damage? Really? What the hell?

If they touch any initiative based skill remember that it becomes spammable, that’s there only choice without creating a huge imbalance for a damage buff. The problem with any of that being we do not need the damage, we need survivability and massive updates to utility skills. Don’t understand why they think thieves need an AA buff…

If they nerf the overall tankiness/damage of the meta classes while killing quickness resses and slow stomps…..increased AA damage might just be enough to help quality thieves play again.

Though I’m worried about them not even delving into the whole druid bunker, any buffs to reapers, and more than likely over tuning of warriors (every time they buff warriors they over do it). I’m also willing to bet that once the diamond skin rework comes out it has a very high probability of being stronger than any other classes options for condi removal.

Like I said we’ll see when the notes come out.

I have to see the actual patch notes before I can judge.

You do know those ss’s show that your team had a duo vs all solo’s right?

Infact the last one has a legendary duo’d with an amber…….

Spathis.7540:

Azukas.1426:

Spathis.7540:

Spathis.7540:

Solo queue, almost at diamond tier.
Partied with a friend for 5 matches at most. (none of which are related to the wins below).

Don’t believe the negative hype.

Backed this up with another, this time 9/10 wins. Ruby tier, getting close to diamond.
(All my matches again were solo queue).
Still copping flak prior, during and sometimes after matches.

The class is solid. Rotations (from you and your team) are what makes us look good or really really bad.

Only way a thief is an asset is if the thief’s team can carry them so to speak. You have to be able to hold points and allow the thief to do their job of roaming the map. If at any point in time you start to lose team fights before the thief can do his/her job that thief is a liability.

What this means is you didn’t carry those wins, and I highly doubt you were soloq’n those matches.

Please post the ENTIRE screen shot instead of the one with valuable info cut out of it.

The entire screenshots don’t show anything additional / important.
Attached regardless – I have no reason to lie to you. They were all solo queue wins.

Still doesn’t prove you were soloq

I find it very hard to believe btw

Someone already said this, and I agree that the HoT specs need to be nerfed across the board.

That is the only way to buff the “core” specs. Stop the power creep and let’s actually balance the game can we?

Personally I’ve prepared myself to have my main gutted hard this balance patch. We’ve had a good run on chrono, and let’s all enjoy it while it lasts. Though it needs to go IMHO.

Cynz.9437:

Azukas.1426:

Cynz.9437:

tbh if all this insta rez wasn’t in game thief would be more viable i think

i down people a lot, i just can’t stomp them fast enough not to mention that cleave is often useless (see mes, dh, ele, scrapper etc.)

The new elite was supposed to solve this, but I hardly see any thief actually bypassing the downed state with it.

The cast is just too long, can be easily countered by CCs, stealth, quickness not to mention it locks thief in long animation in mid of all the aoe spam. Scrapper gyro on other hand is so much better -_-

I honestly would rather see them make it more viable for thieves. From what I’ve gathered is the 1st skill has a short dash on it to get to the target while the other 2 do not. I would maybe put a dash on every single part of the chain and look into unblockable traits for the thief. Maybe work unblockable attacks into executioner since the other good GM trait it competes with has 2 parts to it. Dunno wtf line it is or wtf it’s called so lil help would be nice

Also the scrapper needs to be nerfed hard. They thief better than a thief LOL

Cynz.9437:

tbh if all this insta rez wasn’t in game thief would be more viable i think

i down people a lot, i just can’t stomp them fast enough not to mention that cleave is often useless (see mes, dh, ele, scrapper etc.)

The new elite was supposed to solve this, but I hardly see any thief actually bypassing the downed state with it.

sephiroth.4217:

I get annoyed at people who ask warriors and thieves to switch….

I prefer people to play the class they are most comfortable on, usually wields better results.

I do laugh when a warrior gets asked to change, and he returns as a thief. MAkes my day everytime.

I only ask warriors/thieves to change if there are 2 of them on a team.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ario.8964:

Sticker, yes s/d can still be a thing (it’s my main set for thief) but it won’t be the evade spam for days unkillable while killing everyone else that you made it out to be.

Weakness spam can be done fairly easily actually, the issue is it’s hard to maintain vs a thief with EA as they will shed those condis while you try to attack them if they are smart.

Making ini 15 wouldn’t add more evade spam to the set unless people went into acro and gave up on either the damage from trickery or crit strikes. I’d be more concerned about d/p if I were you in this situation.

Only reason anyone should complain about evade is when anet makes evades do something stupid like crit for 4k damage or stack condis. But that’s why I was upset with dd design in the first place. Defensive evades are fine (cause you can’t do damage if all you are doing is evading) but they should be used as defensive tools and I’m not sure anet gets that. Really they should just buff weapon damage on thief and then remove the damage type dodges because that was a silly design from the start (giving each a different type of utility would be awesome but doing damage should never have crossed their minds.)

Besides the people who will complain about evades are the ones that don’t know how to time skills and just try to just spam to hit and when it doesn’t work they complain about fighting someone who knows what they’re doing.

I’m slightly distracted so if my post went into a rant I apologize and I hope everything made sense :/

Edit: Azukas, while I’m very happy you recognized the fact that toker played thief for fun on that match and it had no effect on the outcome I disagree with you on the importance of “hard counters”. I personally feel it limits build and class diversity and such a thing imo should never be in the game. Soft counters are good because then it’s about playing what will give you an advantage but shutting out an entire build or class just because you play something is not good design from where I stand. Other than that I agree with what you said overall.

Okay fair points, but I have no idea why I am the only one proposing more build diversity for thieves to perform different roles.

Yes the problem is the meta, we all know that. But thief is practically stuck to 1 role so they can’t do anything about the meta.

If they had atleast 2-3 more options available to them, I believe thief can play accordingly to whatever meta comes about.

So that solves 50% of the problem, but the other 50% which are bad thieves will always be a problem, but atleast we get to a general consensus.

Thief has had 1 role since the beginning of this game. From talking with the players who choose thief they were ok with the role they had.

Now they are a nonviable mess of a class that either needs one of two things to happen.

1. Give them the buffs they need to compete in this meta
2. Nerf everyone else

Spathis.7540:

Spathis.7540:

Solo queue, almost at diamond tier.
Partied with a friend for 5 matches at most. (none of which are related to the wins below).

Don’t believe the negative hype.

Backed this up with another, this time 9/10 wins. Ruby tier, getting close to diamond.
(All my matches again were solo queue).
Still copping flak prior, during and sometimes after matches.

The class is solid. Rotations (from you and your team) are what makes us look good or really really bad.

Only way a thief is an asset is if the thief’s team can carry them so to speak. You have to be able to hold points and allow the thief to do their job of roaming the map. If at any point in time you start to lose team fights before the thief can do his/her job that thief is a liability.

What this means is you didn’t carry those wins, and I highly doubt you were soloq’n those matches.

Please post the ENTIRE screen shot instead of the one with valuable info cut out of it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Problem 1: Thieves arent OP faceroll high burst, stealth, impossible to kill anymore

Problem 2: Inexperienced scrub thieves die a lot

Problem 3: Related to Problems 1 and 2, other classes can kill thieves now unlike in the past

Reality 1: Thieves are amazing on the team, just got to use them properly. Let them rotate quickly, let them, +1. The bunkers can hold the points. Ez kitten pz.

1. Is false. Unless you are talking about the beginning of the game circa 2012.

2. Yes and has been the case for years.

3. False again since other classes have always been able to kill thieves.

Also your reality is a delusion since zero pro teams ran thief. Only toker played thief for 1 round on Kyhlo and let’s be honest….they would have won by a larger margin if he didn’t.

Stop with the false stories of thieves. I main mesmer and remember the hard counter, but even then i recognize the importance of that hard counter in terms of PvP balance.

pariah.5093:

I know why pvp is unbalanced. Its the only game mode that lacks more pve! They ruined enhanced wvw by adding more pve, so why not add it to pvp?

Hello Stronghold