Guild Wars 2

lighter.2708:

brannigan.9831:

I can’t take it anymore. The class has such a narrow scope to be successful in spvp and the few morons left playing the class refuse to fulfill that role 90% of the time. They just want to 1v1 and die over and over again. Please boost them so some people with a clue come back.

exactly, there’s so many thieves yet there’s very few that’s actually good at 5v5 and know what they should do. i can basically count all the top thieves with only one hand even pre HOT.

Alright start naming

LOL too funny.

Just gotta hope you get a REALLY good thief when you get one

Narcarsis.5739:

PureLuck.8795:

Thanks for sharing your builds and opinions Caed. I can’t however, understand how you can say Thief is ‘fine’. I’m not a PvP god, but before HoT I could definitely hold my own playing Thief. Nowadays I feel completely useless. Can’t kill except in +1 situations, all I can do is run and decap. Now, this could be attributed to my skill level, but upon viewing some recordings of your streams I notice that you don’t get a lot of kills yourself. For a player with as much experience in this class as yourself, this can’t be a good sign? Maybe I’ve been watching the wrong recordings, or we differ in our views on the Thief’s roll.

I’ve tried different builds and playstyles for a couple of days, but nothing seems viable enough to warrant me spending time playing Thief. I’m beginning to feel like the concept of the Thief is flawed. It’s either too powerful, or too weak. It’s squishyness is not balancing out the massive damage it used to have when played right, because of it’s stealth and mobility. Take away/nerf the damage and all you have left is a squishy class that’s only strength is mobilty. This, I sadly conclude, is quite an accurate description of Thief’s current state.

I really hope I’m wrong.

I have a disclaimer but it’s fairly easily missed. I do not play the same in queues as I do in tournaments. Queues are usually just for fun, I mess around and I put myself in situations I wouldn’t in a competitive setting just to see certain situations and try to improve or pick up on things I can work on. Realistically speaking Thief match-ups are back to what they used to be somewhere in 2013. Things are fairly 50-50 across a lot of classes, with DH, Druid, and Tempest having advantages (5-95 or Higher, 15-85, 30-70 respectively) and Thief holding advantage over Reaper, Mesmer, and Warrior (75-25, 70-30, 95-5). Keep in mind these numbers are just estimates and more towards my interpretation. It’s almost always better to avoid 1v1 on Thief because you can out-rotate and attempt to snowball the map before your opponent can catch up.

Thief also holds a place in team fights. It has good survivability, can stick on targets, can get out of fights, can instant stomp, and has huge amounts of cleave. I don’t see it as overly squishy – I think Reapers, Dragonhunters (depends a little on their utilities), and Warriors are far easier to lock down and kill as a team under most circumstances. They have few options for escaping being trained in comparison to Thief.

So yea, I honestly think Thief is fine competitively. It’s not bad, it’s not the best – but it’s more than viable and brings some unique things (impact strike, mainly). If other classes get toned down it will be in a good spot. I don’t think it needs buffs, at all. I don’t want more power creep in the game because it’s a lot harder to balance at that point. I think the overall design of Daredevil is good, and the only thing I don’t like is staff 2 (Weakening Charge) due to it being extremely clunky.

I watched the qualifier matches for NA and seeing you play thief was nice to see tbh. Problem remains though is after I paid attention to your play in the matches I honestly don’t see what thief offers over the other classes. Yes you have SB5 for mobility but in the team fights you were a non factor compared to other available classes. I honestly got the impression that you would have contributed more on a different class.

It will be interesting to see how thieves actually hold up in pro league though.

Good luck

Quadox.7834:

People.
People.
People.
Anet doesn’t want any class be be bad. If they could choose through a simple button press, they would make the classes balanced and the people happy. Stop pretending like “Anet rally hates thief”, and anything of that sort. It reeeeaally does not help.

There is no pretending at all. Just watching what they’ve done to the class is all one really needs to see to be able to deduce what their true feelings are.

You have to transcend the period of time where we were countered by thieves in PvP, and if we were all honest with ourselves would admit that a S/D thief only countered a specific build in PvP. In no way shape or form did they counter us as hard as Guards/Engies/Eles/etc. countered them.

Let it Go

It seems Anet has firmly taken a stand to eliminate thieves from being viable in this game.

The least they could do is offer an explanation to all those poor people who decided to main the class.

Really sad for them tbh

Was he the only thief playing today?

Aggrostemma.1703:

I feel really sorry for Sizer… And I’m not biased at all…

He tried but failed miserable…

Even if he played a “out of my mind” traveller mediguardian … he could achieve more….

Buff thiefs and warriors please! This is kind of a joke!

(gua main here…)

Missed it what happened?

Einlanzer.1627:

Azukas.1426:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Black Frog.9274:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Galandil.9641:

RedSpectrum.1975:

And talking like that is why the devs probably don’t believe in this class

Please stop with this argument. It’s just not true.

Since day one a LOT of players gave insightful feedback of what was broken-OP and what was under-par about the thief class, without resorting to insult or arrogant behaviour.

No dev gave a kitten about that. So there comes a time when the patience is over, and NOT due to playerbase’s fault.

And perhaps you’re right, but negativity sure as he’ll isn’t going to help us anymore than we are right now (and we aren’t)

If the devs are withholding support and development of the game on the basis of our “attitudes,” then they’re idiots. Are you suggesting that “if we behave” daddy will reward us?

No I’m suggesting that if daddy is harassed by all of your siblings for the same things instead of you harassing each other, then daddy may listen. But if daddy hears you arguing, he won’t know what the hell needs attention.

Generally people do not start off negative but over time will get there when resolution is not met by a service provider.

In the case of a MMO we’ve witnessed tons of positive feedback and suggestions go ignored for years. This is happening in ALL phases of the game and classes btw. After awhile people will stop being nice and it’s the developers job to be understanding in this. Unfortunately I’ve seen some alarming behaviors from this team.

So you cant really fault players who’ve done it the correct way for years who finally lose their cool. You need to blame the source.

This. Arenanet is exceptionally bad at responding to feedback in any way whatsoever, particularly when it comes to class balance. I’m not sure if it has to do with the balance people themselves or if it comes from somewhere in management, but Karl’s presence on these forums is way, way, way less than it should be.

Something like this should have been addressed months ago.

The biggest problem is not the lack of presence but the disdain they show for anyone who doesn’t put forth their opinion in what they deem the right way. Forget that people did that for years and are now fed up with the lack of care from Anet….

Anyways I’ll cut this off before I get infracted

RedSpectrum.1975:

Black Frog.9274:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Galandil.9641:

RedSpectrum.1975:

And talking like that is why the devs probably don’t believe in this class

Please stop with this argument. It’s just not true.

Since day one a LOT of players gave insightful feedback of what was broken-OP and what was under-par about the thief class, without resorting to insult or arrogant behaviour.

No dev gave a kitten about that. So there comes a time when the patience is over, and NOT due to playerbase’s fault.

And perhaps you’re right, but negativity sure as he’ll isn’t going to help us anymore than we are right now (and we aren’t)

If the devs are withholding support and development of the game on the basis of our “attitudes,” then they’re idiots. Are you suggesting that “if we behave” daddy will reward us?

No I’m suggesting that if daddy is harassed by all of your siblings for the same things instead of you harassing each other, then daddy may listen. But if daddy hears you arguing, he won’t know what the hell needs attention.

Generally people do not start off negative but over time will get there when resolution is not met by a service provider.

In the case of a MMO we’ve witnessed tons of positive feedback and suggestions go ignored for years. This is happening in ALL phases of the game and classes btw. After awhile people will stop being nice and it’s the developers job to be understanding in this. Unfortunately I’ve seen some alarming behaviors from this team.

So you cant really fault players who’ve done it the correct way for years who finally lose their cool. You need to blame the source.

Such fail on everyone’s part.

1st they will nerf the SA line to utter uselessness. Then bring a new line in called ninjitsu that focuses purely on stealth.

The following elite spec after we’re all ninjas for a year will be Loki. That will be revealed months following the destruction of the Trickery line.

That’s how it’s going to go down so stop deluding yourselves.

Maugetarr.6823:

I have to say, thief is in an alright spot right now. DA is pretty good but could use some minor changes. CS could use a couple of tweaks, but largely is fine. SA could use some rearranging. Acro needs to be redone. Trickery could have a couple of things rolled to baseline, but is pretty good. Daredevil is actually pretty cohesive with at least 2 good traits per tier.

Staff is well done. I find I use every skill on it at some point in a fight. I wish the reflect on 1.3 would be moved to 2, and a short daze on it would be nice somewhere, but overall its one of my favorites now. If they put the same work into P/X and did some minor modifications to X/D, I’d be really happy overall. S/X has a few bugs that need addressing, but it’s not bad.

Edit: We don’t need a buff so much as some of the ridiculous stuff needs to be toned down.

I agree with the toning down of other classes, but let’s be realistic here.

There’s been 2 major power creeps in the game since June, and the thief has been left behind in both of them significantly. Truth be told you either need to nerf 6-8 classes or just buff 1 class. I’m of the mind that the devs will go for the easiest road.

Either way I find thieves underwhelming to fight against or on.

Shirlias.8104:

And for the first time, no thieves.

This x 100

Its not the fact thieves aren’t present but what it actually represents. Imagine playing a non bruiser in that mess…..

Tempest is fine

You can have really good matches in SH. Problem is I don’t feel that the game is balanced for SH, and you’ll see extremely broken specs playing it.

I personally have come to enjoy it due to what HoT has brought to Conquest. It’s a nice change of pace, and contrary to popular belief it does take team work to win.

Gabriell.4856:

If you stand on the black powder, it does 3k damage over the duration. This will give thief defense and sustain.

Actually I say no

I would revert the nerf to BP and let it tick every second again. With how the power creep has gone thieves need as much survival as anet can throw them.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Linfang.1087:

Roy I hope you won’t vanish on us after launch!

Kidel, we will get vuln with the attack.

Nope, no vanishing.

Yeah… so… about this…

LOL too funny

My new thief

Couldn’t help it LOL

Minstrel allowed bad players to perform at a higher level.

Thank god it’s gone

Sagat.3285:

Azukas.1426:

I was afraid more this would start to get popular

I can imagine players gathering around him thinking it’s a pinata.

This is more cancerous than the old SD build by miles. When I saw the DD reveal I knew,it was only a matter of time…..

Have i just missed them or thieves fine?

Thanks

I was afraid more this would start to get popular

Narcarsis.5739:

Thief is fine. kitten thief

Fixed for accuracy

We need ideas to keep these fellas in check. Tired of playing games where everyone runs builds that just don’t die. Boring.

I brought this to the thieves forums b/c let’s face it this class is crippled in terms of fighting. So what ideas can we give thieves to break up the snoozefest that PvP is shaping up to be?

I’d like attacks that ignore armor.

The amount of tankiness that classes get along with good damage needs to go.

I’m tired of seeing builds that fall into the hard as kitten to kill and hit hard as kitten. The balance team needs to get in gear b/c right now you’re failing at your job

can only log in with repair

:(

Crinn.7864:

Many elite specs are stronger than the core class, but this is to be expected this recent after a expac. I’ve never seen a MMO to date pull off a expac without having egregious balance for a time afterwards.
This is due to difficulty in predicting how completely new mechanics will affect the meta needing to sell boxes.

Give it a couple patches and it’ll be much better.

Dojo.1867:

It needs cooldown 3->5s and it is fine imo. Also I liked when it added the astral wisp to allies/self but the astral wisp on staff needs some added functionality. The autoattack already does the same exact thing.

Actually it needs to be removed. There’s starting to be too much blind spam in this game.

Gabriell.4856:

Sorry but steal needs to be baseline 20 secs (16 secs when traited). This is not negotiatable when they basically gave Rev our F1 and they can use it every 5 secs….

Steal doesn’t cost initiative.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Xillllix.3485:

What happened to Skill/Class balance in this game?
It seemed that at the end 2014 everything was almost perfect, finally we had something that could be considered an eSport.

Dhuumfire happened, necromancers were an underwhelming class at the time with 1 viable (but powerful) condi-bunker build.

• ArenaNet decided to buff Necromancers.
• ArenaNet also decided to kitten up royally while they were at it.

Some stupid reason ArenaNet decided to give Necromancers the most powerful trait in the game, Dhuumfire that rivals the potential of todays grandmaster traits. It was that broken.

That trait alone skyrocketed necromancers to God tier, even with numerous nerfs it was stupid powerful. In conjunction with the trait Terror, the damage rivals the condi-burst classes today during a time there was no such thing as condi-burst. There was no counter play, PvP was completely ruled by Necromancers.

Now it’s nerfed to a reasonable line, but when it came out it destroyed the PvP community in mere days.

---

ArenaNet killed their Esport community with Dhuumfire and allowed it to run rampant for nearly a year.

That sir, is why Guild Wars 2 Esports potential completely died.

Thus I pronounce it “Dumbfire”

Shadelang.3012:

Azukas.1426:

Have started to make me dread conquest.

I’m waiting to see how the meta pans out, but it’s not looking good at all.

Ironically for me I found that my old build has a better chance against some of these builds out there than the new ones I made to fight the old meta.

Some of the builds are insane yeah. But I found relying on old tricks used new ways.

For my case I decided druid wasn’t really my thing and went back to my beast mastery focused shout ranger and just swapped to the new pets (Smokescale and bristleback). Im actually having alot more success against the builds that wrecked me just using the build im familiar with. Maybe the same concept will help you.

I’m talking the overall team game not 1v1

Have started to make me dread conquest.

I’m waiting to see how the meta pans out, but it’s not looking good at all.

DH is currently the low skill high reward build of HoT right now.

They need to have traps work like the rest of the traps/wells. You dodge into them, trigger them, and they fail to damage you.

End of story.

Got a link to the build so we can all test it out and see if we agree?

You all are actually defending this WOW. You do realize having that much quickness is game breaking right? This has nothing to do with keeping rangers bottom tier but goes along the lines of stopping super stomps/resses/etc.

Then imagine Druid with perma quickness. LOL

Hopefully the nerf is swift and kills this out right.

I see the mods go to work on the guy calling out the party responsible for this lol. I don’t condone that kinda stuff but I can understand the frustration with this balance team lately.

stuck at DL’n screen

Can’t even enter in account name/pword all it says is Downloading 0KB

Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…

Is the message i’m getting

Soinetwa.5193:

T raw.4658:

Why can’t the offending player pay the remaining player each 10 gold. So everytime u quite its a 40g penalty.

Bet that kitten stops REALLY fast

a really good idea.. just.. that it would kill pvp whenever anet does something that may kick some players will result in players raging and quiting

like currently like 30% of all EU players are getting dcs connection errors or at least heavy lags…

sure punish them

In those instances you turn it off until cleared.

I know I’m going to get flamed but as a mesmer main we need a nerf.

Ya it was good to kitten on thieves after the patch and blow everyone up but you start to realize how unbalanced it is.

Looking back before the patch you start to realize we didn’t have it all that bad. We were only hard countered by 1 class in 1 game mode running 1 specific build….our other builds weren’t hard countered by thieves. The rest of the classes we could kill. That’s pretty darn good in my book.

Going forward we need to identify what needs to be nerfed that won’t break our class.

So I can see why the OP found himself rooting for the thief and I would have too

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

MidoriMarch.8067:

T raw.4658:

DHawk.2687:

Jana.6831:

DHawk.2687:

mfg how many times do i have to say i want to see a buff rather than a nerf, I’m just trying to be realistic since we won’t see a buff in a long time
are we done now? I NEVER demanded a nerf of dp

DHawk.2687:

dp does need some kind of adjustment imo, i think the blindfield and the fact that you can just heartseaker through it stale, boring and a bit too strong compared to all the other thief weaponsets, not even mentioning the shadowshot and daze

adjustment does not mean nerf. look it up

You lost time to get back to the drawing board

No you lost T Raw.

Please dont judge people when u actually have 3.2k ap with less than 1000 hours spent on thief.

Since when did speed runes become perplexity runes and since when did zerker/valk gears turned into condi gears?

Thanks

Not shots fired just midori losing his temper.

Anyways D/P Thief is fine in the grand scheme of things and all thief builds are hurting atm

when was this nerfed???

because its just that awesomesauce?

a t s e.9614:

This faceroll and overpowered spec will not get nerfed anytime soon right ? Mesmer hiding in stealth 80% of the time with protection and regen while your enemy has perma weakness/cripple which kills any power user.

There’s a reason why PU is banned from dueling servers. PU noobs are instantly kicked upon join. Seriously I dont know what the devs are wating to nerf this fail and OP 1v1 build.

And dont tell me to l2p, the people who use PU should learn to play a real build.

badtrollisbad

hendo.1940:

Ithilwen.1529:

I’ve been playing PU Mesmer. I admit I suck at Mesmer generally but if you think PU is overpowered than you are simply not a skilled player. I’m guessing #1 mashing warrior.

I played shatter mesmer versus a guildie, got dumpstered like five times in a row, switched to PU for the first time in my life and then threw him in the trash can like four times immediately after doing so.

I’m not sure what to take from that.

shatter sucks

easiest way to kill the Mesmer is by attacking it…

Pyroathiest.4168:

My suggestion is to go to pvp and get the level up tomes there.

This

I would only go sc/t amd sw/p for roaming or hot joint, but if I was running in a gvg, I’d go GS and s/p in the tank squad.

love my Mesmer. there isn’t really a class that will reliably beat me 1v1 if I am on top of my game. I’m not into sieges or blob vs blob since I actually enjoy having to play my class to its fullest, so I wont speak on that aspect of it. I will say that aoe and other brainless playstyles rule supreme in that aspect since that game style is pretty much a brainless game anyways.

only thing I would like to see from Anet is an ability to reliably keep runners in a fight if we so choose.

I simply don’t understand the mindset of thieves players when it comes to balance.

Was meh so I switched to travelers

Sanduskel.1850:

tom.7468:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Stealth isn’t the problem. Stealth is perfectly balanced. I’ll tell you what the real problem is:

They have 10k hp. They need some defense otherwise they will be freekill everywhere.
I don’t think thieves would like if anet suddenly turned them into a warrior that is just worse than everything warriors do.

They only have 10k because they can spec glass cannon. That’s a choice. Unlike other classes, there’s no risk speccing glass cannon on a thief.

Wrong again columbai

Glass Cannon Spec’d thief isn’t spec’d into SA line.

Ever since DAoC all you did was complain about your short commings as game imbalances. I’m sure that new game that just released is awaiting your cries of imbalances on their forums.

How easily they are killed