Guild Wars 2

Ayakaru.6583:

Can we start reporting commanders for AFK’ing at events until some people clear the pre. I mean.. isn’t that what the whole commander tag is for? for taking charge?

I mean, I know people consider it a vanity item, but if you let people continue using it as such there will never be a good purpose. some events like the centaurs and the shatterer have 3-6 commanders waiting at the base while you have to be lucky if someone does the pre. In most cases they are done normally, but only after a few people go and check up why the pre isn’t finishing

Why not just tag up and go do the pre?

oxtred.7658:

For the love of god, how many times must we repeat berserker gear doesn’t equal to no group support?

Alright, Jeez. I picked the wrong words here. Yes, there’s group support in zerker teams. There are some specs that are better at it than Zerker though. This really depends on where group support becomes effective in the player’s eyes. I was just attempting to note that speed is top priority for fullzerk groups in most cases.

@ Oxtred

If everyone did that there would be much less of a problem. some people dont seem to have the time to make their own instance though.

Devata.6589:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Devata.6589:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

You cant stop people from whining.

The first mistake any person or business can make is expecting to please 100% of its playerbase.

Nobody complaining about expansions wants to hear “Gw1 is not GW2, the devs wanted to do something different”, for instance.

If it comes to expansions thats also irrelevant because this game GW2 got released as B2P while it later was turned more into a cash-shop game in stead of a B2P game.

Now if it was about having an open world and people where complaining about that you where right.

W…what?

Can you rephrase this? I don’t get it.

What part?

The excuse “Gw1 is not GW2, the devs wanted to do something different” is valid if people are asking for something that was from GW1 (like no open world) but what never was mend to be the case for GW2 (GW2 was always supposed to have an open world). But that excuse is invalid for things that have always been associated with GW2 like using the same payment model (B2P) as GW1.

Living story replaced expansions for GW2.

I wasn’t addressing anything about payment models. I was only addressing content delivery and the fact that some people seem to be cross that the deliv system isnt like GW1s.

Just going to chime in really superficially here.

If you wipe, dont blame the train.
If tower is paper and wall is damaged, Cata > Ram.
Do not use regular rams in enemy territory.
It is your responsibility to carry food you think your train should have.
Do not call anyone an idiot for doing something that is even slightly beneficial to you, even if it was not called for. *
*If you wipe, do not make the same mistake that got your train wiped unless your land is [outnumbered] and there’s nothing else to do.
*Port golems back when not in use.
You should at least carry -some- siege if not all siege you plan to need for capping objectives.
————————————————

Those are a lot of questions, but I’d like to answer a few that I feel strongly about.

26. Do you have a specific class/profession you choose when commanding in EoTM and why do you use that class/profession? (e.g; Mesmer, Warrior etc)

I prefer Guardian/Warrior if only for their sheer tankiness. If they get focused, they are easier to keep alive.

5. Is it okay to have a vague plan of what you want to cap next and if things go awry do you have a back-up plan or do you simply move on to the next closest objective?

Yes. Your plan should loosely follow cap→supply→cap and if that chain is broken anywhere in between, fall back either to the keep or last capped objective, regroup, and continue in a different or the same direction.

11. Every EoTM commander would have experienced some form of negative intent on them. How do you go about ‘keeping your cool’; do you even try to stay calm?

Realize that you are going to suck at least half of the time. No matter how good you are, every battle is a coin flip. you can either find someone more or less prepared than you driving. You will get just as much negativity as you do positivity though, if you are doing your job.

8. Defending. Straight to the point – Are you experienced at defending a certain objective and how do you go about preparing an objective for defense via siege placement? (e.g; reasonable spots for siege placement when defending)

Aim catas at doors from within walled objectives to keep meleers away from doors.

Place arrow carts as far back toward the inner edge of a wall as possible. If it is virtually untargetable from outside you’ve done a good job.

As the above poster stated Dont take it serious. you will -need- to tag up to learn. people are going to say you suck.
Just remember that you decided to tag up instead of them, and that you’re willing to lead. At the same time though, you need to remain humble. Take note of every defeat and always accept some portion of the blame for the defeat. use that defeat to learn, and endeavor not to make the same mistake.

Youll be a good commander in no time. you’re asking all the right questions already.

Devata.6589:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

You cant stop people from whining.

The first mistake any person or business can make is expecting to please 100% of its playerbase.

Nobody complaining about expansions wants to hear “Gw1 is not GW2, the devs wanted to do something different”, for instance.

If it comes to expansions thats also irrelevant because this game GW2 got released as B2P while it later was turned more into a cash-shop game in stead of a B2P game.

Now if it was about having an open world and people where complaining about that you where right.

W…what?

Can you rephrase this? I don’t get it.

Gehenna.3625:

It’s a funny world when people generally get zerker gear and see it as a requirement for group content whereas you can gear stupidly and still beat the same content.

So the game doesn’t require it but the players do. Why? Cause they want to farm fast. Guess that’s all that matters.

See, you’re partially right here. The problem isn’t this two dimensional.

Yes. you can beat the content with any gear.
Zerker is not a requirement for group content.

Some players require it because the “Group content” they are doing they have already done hundreds of times and there is no longer any immersion, any need for cutscenes, any need for group support, or items like that. They’re fast forwarding to get what they want. Namely, tokens (probably to forge swords for a precursor.).

Some players do not require it because there is still a need for immersion, group support, taking their time and enjoying the content to build social links inside of a TV. They play the content for the content, and the reward is a bonus.

The only issue stemming here is when a player from either of the first two groups tries to muscle their way into or imposes their mentality upon the players that belong to the other.

Farming fast is all that matters to Some. not all.

The whole thing would be fixed if people would agree to use the LFG tool properly and stop taking “play how you want” to mean “Force others to play how you want/accept how you play.”

I’m specced in 50% Zerker normally.

Do I join “LFG zerk only” groups with that? No, im not full zerk; I either spec if I want a speed run, or make my own group if I want to help someone who hasnt done it.

It’s not hard.

Rauderi.8706:

Oh, this was another “(no) expansion” thread. I was hoping it was an actual call to be civil. =P

Oh well, back to reading anti-zerk/pro-mount threads.
Sigh.

Civility beyond this point is an impossibility. The devs keep the obvious trolls to a minimum and everyone else is very articulate, even over what I’d personally consider small matters.

The archeage forums are a travesty. The grass is not greener.

You cant stop people from whining.

The first mistake any person or business can make is expecting to please 100% of its playerbase.

Nobody complaining about expansions wants to hear “Gw1 is not GW2, the devs wanted to do something different”, for instance.

Theres going to be a lot of people disappointed that the game doesnt fulfill their wildest dreams of what it should be. The only thing you can do is let them keep headbutting what they think is wrong, ‘cause they sure as hell wont stop if you tell them it’s anything but.

Just to note, the job-o-tron only comments on grawl impressions if the person wearing it is doing a lot of jumping.

Jumping =/= actively contributing to the fight. Job-o-tron tells people around you how poorly well you’re doing.

Gizmo.9178:

I love the backpack but I understand others who want it in the slider.

I don’t agree with those who are overreacting though as if it is this horrible tool of torture.

This.

Hearing “SaVe YOUrSElvES!” all the time is more annoying than this thing.
If you want to cram it into a slider, it should go into dialogue. If you can handle anything there, you can handle this.

If replica job o tron is wiping your train you may have to consider reevaluating your focus.

All the jones talk reminded me of the Skeleton with the Fedora in Loreclaw. Wonder if this is a running gag.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loreclaw_Expanse_%28jumping_puzzle%29

Also, AbbadonRekt = nice touch.

Some people cant handle losing on a video game because its the only part of their life where they’re good at something.

Morsus.5106:

Since GW2 is skill based, there will always be a group who consider them skill enough to run the content with all Berserker gear. It’s best to keep it where the Average Joe can run Berserker and the only thing holding him back is personal choice.

Let’s say A. Joe wants to run Citadel of Flame. Joe opens up his LFG and looks around seeing a bunch of “Berserker Only” LFGs. He asks why and is told that this is the fastest way of getting rewards. He decides to save up his gold and get Berserker gear, runs dungeons in all berserker, and gets his rewards. He accomplishes this and is now a “zerker elitist” earning his rewards.

Now, let’s say A. Joe wants to run Citadel of Flame after ANet makes some major changes to the system. He opens up his LFG and looks around seeing a bunch of “Berserker Only” LFGs. He asks why and is told that this is the fastest way of getting rewards. He decides to save up his gold and get Berserker gear, and once he’s acquired it runs CoF. Unfortunately, every time he goes to fight an enemy he gets killed, and after this happens a bunch, his group gets sick of carrying him and kicks him. He can’t meet the skill requirement to run a full berserker and has now wasted his time and gold.

It really comes down to this: Do you want to be locked out of someone else’s group because you disagree with their play-style, or because you can’t play as well as you need to? Either way, there will be berserker only groups.

This. As blunt as it is, and as I said before, no matter how hard you make the dungeon, eventually someone will do a perfect run, and the meta will resurface as “lets perfect run this as fast as possible.”

You can pick your poison. Either have your choice keep you out of a fraction of the Zerker only groups, or have your skill level do so.

You can always make your own group and do w/e you want though.

None of this will get rid of the ‘elitists’, mind you, no matter who you decide to define them ‘as’. Individual skill and personality is what makes them “elitist” not the game balance, and you cannot tailor the game to shoehorn them into accepting a slower run or being nice, depending on which flavor of “elitist” you are addressing.

InfernoHero.5687:

1. A new player likes a build and posts it on the forums. Zerker elitists try to force that player into playing their build.

2. I make a listing in LFG with “All Welcome!” as the title. Zerker player joins and attempts to kick a non-zerk player.

3. Zerker elitists calling someone out in map chat because they like having a set build more than the meta.

All three of these have happened. THAT is the issue.

This is the specific selection of “elitists” that need to be addressed. That being said, there are people that benefit from the meta.

Chalk these up to toxicity and specify that these players alone are the issue whenever talking about “full zerk only for dungeons” or the “meta”, cause these players are not even the majority in those groups. . Full Zerk Build works in organized group or specific dungeon run only. Other than that it is a matter of personal preference. You cant bomb the meta because some pigheaded jerks think “meta” is synonymous with “omnipotent”. That’s why the PVP section is a mess.

More blame lies with the individuals that perpetuate the above quoted mentalities, than with the people who have decided that, due to their experience with a dungeon or event, there is no need for anything but zerker.

There’s a difference between a knight that doesnt carry a shield because it makes him look cooler and a knight that doesnt carry a shield because he doesnt need one. And no matter how hard or convoluted you make a dungeon, eventually someone will do a perfect run and the meta will surface again for people who only want the shiny.

NoTrigger.8396:

id like to say that this is only partly true. players such as myself use full offensive gear because we feel fun when being efficient, we feel its fun when content punishes us as hard as possible when we do a mistake, and we feel its fun to become better players.

This is noted too. There are zerkers that feel it’s fun to churn out as much DPS as they can and still stay alive. All power to them. Personally though, I see way too many people down and get mowed on silly bosses for me to just keep hacking at the boss if it isnt close to death, so I traited to keep them alive. at the cost of a fraction of my DPS. (not much, armored attack and bloodlust keeps dps reasonable.)

Bleeding heart, I guess? Idk.

Once you get into the space where these playstyles can coexist (Namely, open world, anywhere that isnt a “letsfinishthisquick” dungeon group, S’all good.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

People that are already experienced arent going to willingly go slower than they need to.

I’d just like to chime in and point out that this is not necessarily a true statement. It only holds for experienced loot-centric players, and probably not even all of them.

True! True. Noted. I kind of mentioned that, but I forgot to specify in that exact statement.

This only applies to people going after the reward. if you’re doing it for nostalgia/cause its fun/ you wanna help someone, any other build works.

This is part of the reason why I said full zerk was boring. Sure you need to be more alert to stay alive, but once you’ve put on a full set you’re pretty much just sayin “I just wanna blow through this for the shiny at the end” and the whole thing at that point is nothing but grindfest.

Now, if you’re one of the Full Zerkers that jumps into open world, without a guild group/party, where the new/inexperienced players are and are focused on burning down things so they rally instead of actively revving them because “that’s the right way to play”, then turns around and calls them ‘filthy casuals’ when the boss wipes them too ‘cause they didnt rally anyone, I’d gladly have an argument with you.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TLDR: I want dungeons where the most optimal route is a mix of builds, not optimized purely for group DPS. This will invlove different enemy mechanics as well as different dungeon mechanics as a whole.

You’re asking a difficult thing.

Once people complete the dungeon enough to know where everything happens, the only reason to go back that isnt to help someone who hasnt completed it/nostalgia is for the reward. At that point, you are not playing for the entertainment so much as you are playing for the reward, and the less time you can spend churning through repeat content, the better.

Forcing people to do gated content that they’ve already done numerous times is more annoying than you might be aware of, which could easily lead to more “LFZerkletsgetthisoverwith” parties that know what needs to be done to finish that dungeon as fast as possible.

If it bleeds, you can kill it. If you can kill it, hitting it harder means it dies faster.
In a game centered around “Kill this get reward lol”, People that are already experienced arent going to willingly go slower than they need to.

and again, this “killitfast” only works in specific dungeon groups.

Unless, like…your suggestion is making a dungeon nothing but a jumping puzzle. because if it has even -One- thing you need to kill in it…

Or you put in some kind of Spectral Agony that is specifically made to deter zerkers, at which point you’re just making a change to scold the meta for doing what it should be.

NoTrigger.8396:

im glad there are people who understand. thank you

this whole discussion would be unnecessary if the anti berserker crowd would simply accept the fact that nobody is going to stop them from playing how they want. and so they should not try to stop us from using our playstyle.
but instead, they are selfish and egoistic and would be better off playing a single player game if they cannot deal with other peoples playstyles or wishes.

I think there’s a disconnect between different groups of non-zerk and different groups of full zerk.

With that being said:

• The people playing full zerk want to finish the content as fast as possible and know
  what they need to do to not blow up. Not Zerker/ Not Experienced? dont slow them down.

• Zerker has less place in “Open World” PVE/WVW./PVP. All of these modes focus on
  team effort / working with players that may be new to the content.

• Zerker has less place in Half and Full Pug Groups. New/pickup players tend to not know what they are doing and will need a slower pace to complete the dungeon.

There’s no reason to jump right into the “LFZerk” parties if you don’t meet them. 99% of the game is available for you to play geared however you want. They’re just fast tracking it to farm, and time is lost if your dps isn’t contributing as much as it possibly can. There’s need for more tanks in Open world/WVW/PVP where support of a specific individual or groups of individuals are important, and movement patterns cant be memorized.

NoTrigger.8396:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The only way this “zerker” meta will ever see a shakeup is enemy overhauls. I realize this is a lot of work, but it really does need to happen.

if you think passive damage mitigation > player skill then gw2 is probably not for you.

skilled players will always be able to use the most offensive gear set. there is nothing you can do about it. and being kitten because your play how you want build is not as effective wont help you or anyone else.

you can play how you want. nobody is going to take it away from you.
so dont take away the ability from other players to play how they want.

I partially agree with this.

First of all, I want to note (again, briefly) I am not full zerker. I am half. The rest is knights/soldier.

Second thing is, you’re right. In most cases, if you are skilled enough you play full zerk, because you know what the things you fight do and know when you need to dode.

Nothing against that, no need to take that away from you.

That does not absolutely remove the usability of other armors in half-pug, full pug, or Open World bosses though (Not to mention WVW where full zerk gets you melted.).

In a group where everyone knows what to do, is focused on obtaining the reward as quickly as possible, and is familiar with their class = Zerk is what you roll with.

Anything else = probably not.

This of course means that people who play (non zerk) should not feel entitled to muscle their way into a “zerk only” seeking party, but Zerk is still not the be-all, end-all stat distrib. for all content. It is niche for experienced dungeon speedruns and organized players.

Redxon.6832:

I can’t get gwamm i been playing gw1 for years

i ended up in the hospital couple weeks ago cus of this game

quit.

A phrase above your video game character’s head that many people wont even recognize the significance of isn’t worth your health.

put that effort into something more constructive.

You may want totag some of that under spoilers.

That being said, really nice addition Anet. Glad to see content so polished when you guys step up to bat.

Rangers aren’t OP.

they’ve settled down into “Annoying if they show up to a 1v1 in the opponents favor./ Keep you in combat while perched”

Zui.9245:

If your goal in this game is to play efficiently, DPS is your primary concern. In this game, and every other game, even those with the trinity, your goal is to complete things as quickly as possible.

Your problem here is that you apparently don’t understand how this game works-

Foremost goal for playing a game should be having fun.

What are you speedrunning for if not entertainment?

spoj.9672:

It doesnt cripple them. It has no effect on other builds. Its just you people seem to be frustrated that there is a meta. Which doesnt make any sense. There is always a meta.

If time is not an issue for you, running full passive defence is sooo much easier. Its completely imbalanced at times. People just see DPS as a problem because that one extreme is the meta. But the opposite extreme is much more overpowered. See our no dodge arah path 2 run for reference. Notice how we complete the path faster than some pug groups yet we are almost completely immortal and didnt focus on damage at all. http://youtu.be/b2VhmwLwvrM

Mixed groups will have some problems due to squishy players being in danger, but the overall group should have an easier time than a full glass group.

?

I don’t care that’s there’s a meta. If you wanna zerk, zerk. its good for people that know what they’re doing and have a group full of similarly experienced people.

The -only- problem I have is with people that say Zerk is the end all, cure all for any mode at any time and if you do not play it you’re bad.

And my reference to support, etc. being crippled was in reference to the individual. It affects the person who is zerking. Some people would prefer less dps for more survivability, especially in PVP/WVW settings.

Just so we’re on the same page. I am just pointing out that I do quite well in PVE for certain reasons without the full zerk build, and that I have fun doing it.

spoj.9672:

Building max dps doesnt mean you dont use support or control. Ive lost count how many times thats been pointed out. Its like speaking to brick walls.

Many of us understand this, I just dont personally favor the way building max DPS near-cripples other options I’d like to use as well.

Lupanic.6502:

The animation before the knockback helps a lot.

This. I’m okay with rangers melting me with RF now, as long as I know that if I time things right I can get to them if I so choose.

Zoso.8279:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Mitch.4781:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

It’s gone as of this patch. This is the most definitive sign ever from Anet that they do not want open world PvP.

Please enjoy ArcheAge.

They’ve removed it????

Yep it looks like it wasn’t intended to work that way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-November-4-2014/first#post4541463

Fixed an issue in which players who paid to safely enter a bandit camp in the Silverwastes were attackable by normal players.

Died a little inside.

nonononNONONONO NONONONO

PUT IT BACK

ANET PLS

…Hotjoin?

Remind me, does this happen in Ranked/SoloQ?

khani.4786:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Theory:

Small holes cut into fabric of armor where tail goes that just barely fit the tails.

That are magical holes because they move with the tail swishing but never disturbs the fabric. >.>

(disclaimer: Sometimes I personally care about the tail clipping, sometimes I don’t. Depends on the day)

Asura technology.

PLOT TWIST

Jana.6831:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

See, I can respect that.

I tend to get along really well with the new players though, so I like my playstyle as is. Theres a community that doesn’t know boss mechanics and makes silly mistakes, as well as a community that is the inverse. I don’t know which portion is bigger, so I specced to help out the portion that stands out more.

Totally doesnt take me 5 minutes to rev someone though.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast_Healer + defense line.

Doesnt take me long to melt down bosses either. probably markedly slower than full zerk, but well enough.

I wasn’t talking about you but rather in general, but it has happened to me, the exact same situation in a very bad dungeon pug – I made a lot of mistakes myself though, but I kind of guess it would’ve been easier if that guy wasn’t trying to rez someone in a red circle for 5 mins and then took 6 minutes to kill a mob – we would’ve been able to wp a lot faster.

Just saying that your perception of this game is kind of wrong and PvE isn’t the largest part of the game either actually.

I can see where you’re coming from, but I have to disagree on my perception of the game being wrong. You seem to think that what you witnessed on that pug is the norm for players specced with less focus to DPS. While I agree that some outright horrors can happen with situationally bad, non-dps specs, I still do not agree that DPS is the best way to go, every time.

And my mindset applies to PVP (less so) and WVW ( more so) , so If you want to challenge it on those planes, feel free.

unless.. I’m misunderstanding something somehow. Idk.

timmyf.1490:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

unless your fun is stemming solely from making their life miserable.

Remind me again who the toxic players are?

> Any zerker that insists all players play like he/she does outside of a group geared for zerkers,
>Any player that joins a group expecting zerkers simply because they can, without filling group criteria
>Any player that expects another player to cover their deficiency in a particular aspect, and becomes abusively vocal about it after downing/dying.

Rule: Dont be a kitten and place your fun above anyone elses.

Skady.5916:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This requires everyone:

>is experienced with the dungeon and knows how to dodge
>is not out of dodges when they need one.

You’re only focusing on the smallest portion of the game, where players are running for speed clears on a dungeon they’ve already done, and do not care about anything else (or simply aren’t bad at noticing visual cues/ never mistime a roll)

The game is much larger than that. Sure, Zerker gear works on Speedclear groups. Not everyone speedclears though.

Game has been out for 2 years already. Lots of guides out on builds/rotations/how-to-dodge etc.

I think its OK to expect from an average player to be familiar with these things. The same way as you expect from “Healer” in “traditional holy-trinity MMO” to be familiar with “healing”. And if that healer is not actually healing party you kick him or educate him if you feeling generous. Same rules apply here

While I agree that those are standard expectations, you just dont see it when its time to fight certain bosses.

Example, labyrinth horror just now. It was a travesty.

I’d rather give up a little dps in order to keep X person alive than grab that DPS for myself and let him die cause he didnt read a guide before jumping into content.

Jana.6831:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I bought zerker gear. Tried it out. It was fun, but I ended up not liking it because in the event that I had people downed on specific bosses, I’d be deadlocked. Melt if I tried to help them, melt if I let them die.

I dropped zerker armor for knight/soldier, kept the weapons, and added a knight/soldier/zerker mix to my accessories. put points into defense for armored attack, and slotted bloodlust to recoup a portion of the power.

I still get to play like I used to, but now if someone downs I can grit my teeth and rev them to get them back up without melting, even under direct fire.

I get a lot of “<3”’s when driving a train for that.

I find playing the buffer between full wipes and wins more engaging, since I’m keeping track of downed while I fight.

Just something extra to do.

I’m nearly full zerker, I rez people by either melting down the enemies they’ve targeted so they will rally, or by being the target of the boss by attacking him, or by rezzing them. All of that is possible when I know the boss/mob mechanics and don’t make stupid mistakes (happens). In most cases it does no good if you’re able to stand in fire for 5 mins to rez someone while everybody else gets downed, it would be more effective to kill the boss fast and then revive the fallen ally.
You seem to talk solemly about open world PvE events and a wise range of players are doing these, so people who still haven’t noticed that standing in red circles is bad, commanders who haven’t fiigured out the boss mechanics themselves and have no idea how to counter it, thus their advises are rather suicidal and so on. So yes, it might appear to you that being tanky is the better choice because you have to deal with people who don’t know too much about the game (no offense btw, I’ve been a noob myself) but that only applies to these situations, not to the game in general. And I’m also able to kill everything with autoattack on my condi engi, so it’s not just zerker.

See, I can respect that.

I tend to get along really well with the new players though, so I like my playstyle as is. Theres a community that doesn’t know boss mechanics and makes silly mistakes, as well as a community that is the inverse. I don’t know which portion is bigger, so I specced to help out the portion that stands out more.

Totally doesnt take me 5 minutes to rev someone though.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fast_Healer + defense line.

Doesnt take me long to melt down bosses either. probably markedly slower than full zerk, but well enough.

RSLongK.8961:

Skady.5916:

InfernoHero.5687:

Skady.5916:

Nothing is wrong with zerker meta – its literally the only logical solution. There is no tanks (ways to pull boss aggro), no healers (everyone heals himself) in this game. Which leaves only 1 role for you – DPS.

I see this being said a lot, and I can’t really see the logic.

Assume Elementalist fighting champ with a charge ability:

Elementalist initiates fight with Fire Attunement meteor shower. (DPS)
Champ starts average attacks
Elementalist switches to Air Attunement and uses a knock back skill to keep the champ far away. (Control/Tank)
Champ charges
Elementalist uses an immobilize skill in Earth Attunement. (Tank/Control)
Immobilize wears off and champ fires off another charge
Elementalist, now at half health, switches to water attunement and fires off the two heal skills and also uses the class heal skill. (Healer/Support)
Champ starts more average attacks
Elementalist switches to Earth Attunement and uses the auto attack to weaken the champ. (Support? Maybe?)
Elementalist switches to Fire Attunement and finishes champ with a Lava Faunt and auto attacks. (DPS)

No offense but seems like you never done dungeons in GW2.

Let me tell you how it actually goes

Elementalist starts in fire with Meteor Shower (you got that part right)
But then instead of switching to earth and other useless shenanigans he continues to spam 1-2 in fire until boss is dead. Add dodges if needed.

See how easy it is if you just know how to dodge

Also the main point is to kill the boss very fast – ideally before your groups runs out of dodges/blinds/reflects. Which is usually 5-30 sec depending on boss.

Actually ZERO for both of you.
A good elementalist will stack might first.
In case, using staff, Earth 2, Fire 2, 2 blast finishers -> enemy dead.
Oh look, support while being dps. who knew? :O

On that note nerf ele-

just kidding.

This is more layered than autoattack machine. 9/10.

Skady.5916:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I’d like to point out that first, we both agree that dedicated roles do not exist.

However, the features of these roles do still exist, they are just internalized. You can’t just walk up to a class here and say “oh, this is a Warrior/Guardian/Ele. They automatically must be decent at (performing a certain facet of the trinity at a certain level) or they’re a bad player.”

That does not mean that the concepts have died or been removed.

These concepts exist in GW2, but with slightly altered meanings.

You thinking in a right direction but you no there yet

Yes roles do exist. And yes each party member is a Tank/Healer/DPS for himself.

Each profession can dodge (avoid damage completely), some professions have other ways of preventing boss from dealing damage (blinds, reflects, aegis).

All these factors lead to the following conclusion:
You do not need defensive stats on your gear, you should use offensive stats only to minimize TTK (time to kill) and you should use your active defenses yo avoid damage.

In other words: get good and learn to dodge.

This requires everyone:

>is experienced with the dungeon and knows how to dodge
>is not out of dodges when they need one.

You’re only focusing on the smallest portion of the game, where players are running for speed clears on a dungeon they’ve already done, and do not care about anything else (or simply aren’t bad at noticing visual cues/ never mistime a roll)

The game is much larger than that. Sure, Zerker gear works on Speedclear groups. Not everyone speedclears though.

Sure, it’s really easy to boil PVE down into “burn down the boss, if you die l2p”, but that is just a specific result of “play how you want”. Just because you can tailor off what you deem unnecessary and place the burden of downing on the people that are silly/unfortunate enough to -get- downed, does not mean you should in all cases.

that’s how people get bored, bro~

Astralporing.1957:

NoTrigger.8396:

berserker gear + every other set without defensive stats are the only gear sets that make full use of the active parts of the combat system. so how is this a bad thing?

You have answered your question by asking it. It is a bad thing, because they are the only gear sets that make full use of the active parts of the combat system.

timmyf.1490:

Out of curiosity, how many people complaining about Zerker gear bought themselves a set, tried it out for a few months, and decided it wasn’t for them?

Most of my chars have switched to zerker by now. The advantage of doing so was just too great to do otherwise. I don’t consider this a good thing.

I bought zerker gear. Tried it out. It was fun, but I ended up not liking it because in the event that I had people downed on specific bosses, I’d be deadlocked. Melt if I tried to help them, melt if I let them die.

I dropped zerker armor for knight/soldier, kept the weapons, and added a knight/soldier/zerker mix to my accessories. put points into defense for armored attack, and slotted bloodlust to recoup a portion of the power.

I still get to play like I used to, but now if someone downs I can grit my teeth and rev them to get them back up without melting, even under direct fire.

I get a lot of “<3”’s when driving a train for that.

I find playing the buffer between full wipes and wins more engaging, since I’m keeping track of downed while I fight.

Just something extra to do.

Skady.5916:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Skady.5916:

Nothing is wrong with zerker meta – its literally the only logical solution. There is no tanks (ways to pull boss aggro), no healers (everyone heals himself) in this game. Which leaves only 1 role for you – DPS.

You’re trying to apply Holy_Trinity.mmo to a game that doesnt have it.

That’s simply not true. Let me explain something to you.

Tank – person targeted by mob
DPS – reducing enemy HP to zero
Heals – maintaining allies HP above zero

You cannot just target an ally and spam heals, and actually you are not supposed to do that – instead you supposed to pro-actively avoid damage and save yourself.

TLDR: Tank/Healer/DPS concept is a direct consequence of HP/target concept. GW2 design reduces “trinity” to single-DPS.

I’d like to point out that first, we both agree that dedicated roles do not exist.

However, the features of these roles do still exist, they are just internalized. You can’t just walk up to a class here and say “oh, this is a Warrior/Guardian/Ele. They automatically must be decent at (performing a certain facet of the trinity at a certain level) or they’re a bad player.”

That does not mean that the concepts have died or been removed.

These concepts exist in GW2, but with slightly altered meanings.

Tank = Reduced damage, increased mitigation
DPS = Increased damage, reduced mitigation
Healer = provides circumstantial healing or revives to allies.

Every class has a specific portion of each of these concepts imbued into their functionality. some people may choose to max DPS at the cost of the other two facets, but it does not make those facets any less important. It just means that all classes perform all roles at all times.

DPS does not magically become a cure all in all situations because tactical shouthealing/ a well timed water field/ shadow refuge are all downplayed.

Dalanor.5387:

InfernoHero.5687:

Skady.5916:

InfernoHero.5687:

Skady.5916:

Nothing is wrong with zerker meta – its literally the only logical solution. There is no tanks (ways to pull boss aggro), no healers (everyone heals himself) in this game. Which leaves only 1 role for you – DPS.

I see this being said a lot, and I can’t really see the logic.

Assume Elementalist fighting champ with a charge ability:

Elementalist initiates fight with Fire Attunement meteor shower. (DPS)
Champ starts average attacks
Elementalist switches to Air Attunement and uses a knock back skill to keep the champ far away. (Control/Tank)
Champ charges
Elementalist uses an immobilize skill in Earth Attunement. (Tank/Control)
Immobilize wears off and champ fires off another charge
Elementalist, now at half health, switches to water attunement and fires off the two heal skills and also uses the class heal skill. (Healer/Support)
Champ starts more average attacks
Elementalist switches to Earth Attunement and uses the auto attack to weaken the champ. (Support? Maybe?)
Elementalist switches to Fire Attunement and finishes champ with a Lava Faunt and auto attacks. (DPS)

No offense but seems like you never done dungeons in GW2.

Let me tell you how it actually goes

Elementalist starts in fire with Meteor Shower (you got that part right)
But then instead of switching to earth and other useless shenanigans he continues to spam 1-2 in fire until boss is dead. Add dodges if needed.

See how easy it is if you just know how to dodge

Also the main point is to kill the boss very fast – ideally before your groups runs out of dodges/blinds/reflects. Which is usually 5-30 sec depending on boss.

See the problem here? You just turned one of the most fun classes in the game into an Auto Attack machine.

How is your scenario more fun than mine?
When did Video Games stop being about fun?

How is Lava font and Meteor shower considered as an auto attack?

Nit picking. an Ele playstyle doesnt need to be 100% auto attack to be an “Auto attack machine.” Two unique attacks and fireball for the rest is substantially flat and auto-attack oriented, especially for a class with three other attunements.

Skady.5916:

InfernoHero.5687:

Skady.5916:

Nothing is wrong with zerker meta – its literally the only logical solution. There is no tanks (ways to pull boss aggro), no healers (everyone heals himself) in this game. Which leaves only 1 role for you – DPS.

I see this being said a lot, and I can’t really see the logic.

Assume Elementalist fighting champ with a charge ability:

Elementalist initiates fight with Fire Attunement meteor shower. (DPS)
Champ starts average attacks
Elementalist switches to Air Attunement and uses a knock back skill to keep the champ far away. (Control/Tank)
Champ charges
Elementalist uses an immobilize skill in Earth Attunement. (Tank/Control)
Immobilize wears off and champ fires off another charge
Elementalist, now at half health, switches to water attunement and fires off the two heal skills and also uses the class heal skill. (Healer/Support)
Champ starts more average attacks
Elementalist switches to Earth Attunement and uses the auto attack to weaken the champ. (Support? Maybe?)
Elementalist switches to Fire Attunement and finishes champ with a Lava Faunt and auto attacks. (DPS)

No offense but seems like you never done dungeons in GW2.

Let me tell you how it actually goes

Elementalist starts in fire with Meteor Shower (you got that part right)
But then instead of switching to earth and other useless shenanigans he continues to spam 1-2 in fire until boss is dead. Add dodges if needed.

See how easy it is if you just know how to dodge

Also the main point is to kill the boss very fast – ideally before your groups runs out of dodges/blinds/reflects. Which is usually 5-30 sec depending on boss.

1-2 is boring.

main point should be to have fun fighting it.

What was posted above is much more entertaining than “burn down boss before he kills you lol”.

I’d rather watch an entertaining fight for 20 minutes than watch a quick one for 5.

This seems to be the kind of mindset that makes people run out of content, get mad, and leave.

khani.4786:

eisberg.2379:

I don’t understand what the problem is. Are you wanting the tail not to come through the clothing, so no tail is showing? Would seem wierd to not have the tail coming through the clothes. /shrug

No…many people want them to think about how the armor looks with the tail. To design the armor around the tail. Much like the light armor does with a split in the back and either leave it at that or have “tail armor” that has something that covers part of the tail.

On the heavy and medium armors of this particular set (and MANY many others) the charr tail clips through the back of the armor because there was no thought put into how to have the armor either drape over the tail or design a split in the back of the “butt cape” to accommodate charr tails.

Theory:

Small holes cut into fabric of armor where tail goes that just barely fit the tails.

Skady.5916:

Nothing is wrong with zerker meta – its literally the only logical solution. There is no tanks (ways to pull boss aggro), no healers (everyone heals himself) in this game. Which leaves only 1 role for you – DPS.

You’re trying to apply Holy_Trinity.mmo to a game that doesnt have it.

“Oh, this game doesnt have trinity, so lets all spec into one part of the trin-”

there are no dedicated roles, but you can spec to any stat you want. What’s interesting is that, contrary to popular belief, players with high toughness pull boss aggro, so you can spec to be a tank, provided you can kite. You can heal allies outright or rev them -really- fast if you spec for that. you can spec for quintuple digit crits if you want as well. instead of having dedicated roles, GW2 has every character play a subset of all three roles, and leaves it to the player to decide how they want to balance it.

There are some players, though, that seem to think any kind of balancing attempt that gives any benefit to anything but dps, even in PVE, even outside of dungeons, even without the inclusion of said player into a “LFZerker only” group, is a failed build.

Then when people cave to their heckling, they get slightly more frequent success at the cost of their individuality, get bored when running the same dungeon 500 times cant be borne anymore, and sometimes even quit.

Play how you want. The only thing you need to be concerned about is being good at what you do.

InfernoHero.5687:

Don’t play for “Efficiency” because you’ll get bored of the game and quit because it will feel like a job.

…

This player role-plays, and they really want to get invested in their character, so they made a build that they researched and theory-crafted in order to perfect. This build represents their roleplay idea perfectly and they are really happy with it, so they really want to use it with everything.

…

You see, if you ever take a look at the LFG tool during peak hours, you will likely see MANY more dungeon groups being formed saying everyone is welcome than you will full zerker groups. So, this player will never miss out on anything simply because they chose to have a non-zerker build.

…

I often see the argument against this being: “But the reason you should always use full zerker builds is because you get through the dungeon faster. A 20 minute dungeon now takes 5 minutes.”

This argument falls apart once you realise that this is a new player. He/She hasn’t run through the same dungeons five hundred times like some of you have. That end goal of one gold isn’t as important to them. They still like running through dungeons. It’s not that much of a chore for them because it’s still a really fun part of the game.

The next argument that I’ve seen: “By not using a zerker build, you are hurting the rest of the people in your dungeon group by making it take longer. You might be having fun, but they probably just want the one gold reward at the end.”

This argument also falls apart when you realize that this new player isn’t joining any full zerker LFG listings. Assuming this new player strays away from zerker only listings, the other players in his/her group most likely want to enjoy the dungeon also or simply don’t mind taking longer. Due to this, the new player is harming nothing. Actually, they may be doing better than a full-zerker player would in this situation since the full zerker player would probably die a lot since the other players are probably not using a full zerkers build.

YES! You can use the same build in WvW, PvE, and SPvP.

All of this is spot on, especially the section where you specified that a non zerker player has no problem as long as they don’t try to shoehorn themselves into a full zerk party.

I use just about the same build over all three modes, with minor tweaking, and I do quite fine.

Your fun should be the foremost priority, dont cave and give it up to make some random stranger happy, unless your fun is stemming solely from making their life miserable.

Kite.2510:

>untouchable!

>TONS of more strategy into making your build!

This response isnt for you, it’s for Anet to see what you believe strategy stems from.

(You should probably desire input from the players your change propositions will affect, instead of just blindly suggesting Anet add it, much less outright reject it. such a stance makes it painfully obvious that you’re the only one looking to benefit from a change. I’m a bunker myself and immovable wall is about as non-strategic as you can get. )

Pilot system for dueling confirmed.

play nice.

Everyone that thinks “Since they are no longer available, I should sell them now” are selling them and driving the price down.

I liked it.

The only thing that should be changed is the time and the villagers actually getting credit for living, whether or not they got into combat. and the duration of Mad King says.

Talk about moving goalposts.

Good patch notes. PBS ranger gets dodgeable, Silver matic no longer useless, new armor acquirable in game, new zone, talking backpack.

Not bad.

Too expensive = problem
Cheaper = problem

Thanks for the price tweak, Anet. I’ll be sure to pick one up sometime.

Mitch.4781:

Like seriously. I honestly hope the Dev’s do not listen to bad players who cannot counteract the skills or utilities of other classes. Everything has a counteract. People were crying about DD ele’s recently yet I have been killing them all day on my necro and engie.

LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME!

Warriors and Thieves and Rangers tried to use this to protect their classes.

It didn’t work.

Shanks.2907:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Adrenal Health: Resets to 0 out of combat or on miss.
Cleansing Ire: Resets to 0 out of combat or on miss.
Berserkers power: Damage buff reset to 0 upon out of combat or miss.
Heightened Focus: Reset to 0 upon out of combat or miss.

I am fine with the burst skills depleting adrenaline on miss. That much is fine and acceptable skill floor raising.

The fact that, as warrior stands, my adrenaline benefits are nixed the moment I leave combat, is a hit to the core mechanics. If anything the decay rate should be halfed, if not put back to where it was initially. The fact that adrenaline depletes immediately upon leaving combat removes the strategy complexity that once existed there.

Are people seriously complaining about not having access to cleansing ire when out of combat? Azure, you realize it’s not even possible to be OOC with conditions on you, right? And I’m sure that you’re really going to miss adrenal health when your HP is replenishing at 10x the rate. Do you even actually use heightened focus or berserker’s power in a pvp build?

The only two times I see a warrior inconvenienced about losing adrenalin out of combat is either when they disengaged using mobility or are bringing it to the next fight. Working as intended, as I see it.

Perhaps I need to specify what I mean in these situations.

Regarding both Adrenal Health and Cleansing ire in the situation above:

>Encounter thief, swoop ranger, mesmer
>Battle commences.
>utility condi mitigation burned, on CD
>Adrenaline full

>opponent disengages

>OOC

>opponent returns and loads you with condis.

At this point your Adrenal Health and Ire are both at 0 and utility skill is on CD. Assuming you have SoR burned, at this situation the warrior is inconvenienced through class mechanic drawback instead of lack of skill. At this Condis are almost guaranteed if the warrior is not carrying LB or has a large wind-up burst, assuming the opponent can dodge, makes good use of interrupts, or has reasonable stealth.

There should not be -any- situation in which one opponent can dictate whether or not the other can use their core mechanic, much less benefit from the traits attached to it.

Warriors, as they stand now are spoonfeeding their opponents. their F1 skill more often than not requires them to land a single skill that is easily dodgeable, they howl out how full their adrenaline is, and they have no evasion tactics apart from moving really fast in a specific direction, so they’re easy to track.

Now we just have “you can reduce their healing/power/crit chance/burst damage by running away for a couple seconds” piled on top of the already low-skill ceiling.