Guild Wars 2

Anything that someone in this game doesn’t like “breaks immersion.”

The phrase “immersion breaker” is useless, ignore it. It occurs when an individual decides that a particular item is unfitting for their conception of the game and its theme. Since everyone can interpret the theme differently, there’s no universal definition.

Example: The fact that Tyrians don’t use horses is an immersion breaker for some, but with the development of portals by the Asura there’s no real need for the transport utility, which makes it reasonable for others.

kdaddy.5431:

Ive seen some people run some things that were crazy to me but crushed other people.

I saw this guy run a mace/shield, Greatsword with traits 6-0-2-0-6. I saw him trucking threw people left and right. It was awesome, now give it it was against mesmers and eles who were using other awkward builds but my thing is if your good your good. Builds are important but i think skill and timing is still more important.

I wish more people thought about this and were more adventurous with builds instead of copy pasting metabattle.

Coming from someone who constantly peruses the gem store, The starting bank slots are borderline insufficient.

They can work with careful management, but are inconvenient if you want to keep more than the usual extras.

I’m mildly inclined to agree with the OP, but seeing as how starting a new guild and building a stash basically amounts to an attainable private bank slot for all of your sellable items, I’m not as distressed about it.

It’s inconvenient, but not an insurmountable difficulty.

Double current default bank space with some kind of compensation to those who have maxed their bank slots would be fine by me.

Grimwolf.7163:

Lumbernuts.9726:

Well, From what i’m reading on this topic, Your saying i should just reroll becuase theif aren’t getting better?

Thieves have gotten nerfed, sometimes quite heavily, in every patch since release.
If they’re too weak for you right now, don’t hold out. It’ll only continue downhill from here.
I nearly quit at one point because I got sick of being the dev team’s punching bag.
It isn’t even a question of viability at that point; it’s knowing that everyone literally is out to get you. Even the people who made the freakin’ game.

(Warriors are in the same boat also)

Don’t reroll if you like the class. The nerfs will continue to come because people cannot handle the core mechanics of the class, but eventually Anet will realize that the players complaining about thief don’t want it balanced, they want it Gone.

If you would like to be a good thief, its possible. It will just take more work than people are content on putting in. That work translates into skill though, and that is something that is rare among the competitive community that believes that builds are the only thing they need to put work into to be viable.

Embrace the difficulty. surpass it and do well. If you ever get to the point where you find your potential capped because your class has been bubble wrapped to incompetency, you can move to something else and take that skill with you.

I use it.

People saying it sucks are wrong.

It requires you to be careful with evasion because you have no mobility, but it’s very good with the right traits and sigils.

Trying to get it to melt DPS guards.

“That is your more attractive side!” ~ when running from a Centaur

“You’re dumb. You’ll die, and you’ll leave a dumb corpse!” – Somewhere in the priory

“Yahoo!” – Every guy charr

Coldtart.4785:

You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!
You heard Grast!

^ +1

Yes and no.

Yes in the sense that PVE’s cooperative foundation brings out the best in many people,

No in the sense that PVP’s competitive spirit brings out the worst in people.

The focus of the game very much shapes the players, or at the very least provides them specific outlets for either kindness or aggression that shape the way the specific game modes and their respective communities are seen.

with minor outliers. You’ll see jerks more often where you’d be in direct conflict with them, and helpful people where being kind is rewarded.

Or, perhaps the game does nothing at all to shape the players, and instead draws the people to modes that suit their personalities.

Zefrost.3425:

The nerf to might did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except hurt builds that were already suboptimal trying to use might.

Eliminate doom sigil from the game entirely while you’re at it. And all of the other passive/on crit garbage that you introduced like torment sigil.

Thnx.

More things that are actually balanced like sigil of paralyzation or sigil of force, sigil of accuracy, condition duration extending sigils, etc. would be nice.

I understand your desire to wrap sigil of doom and celestial amulet in a padded foam coating in order to make it safer to fight against, but eventually everyone needs to learn that the world has sharp edges and that tact must be used when handling anything with sharp edges.

zinkz.7045:

Saiyan.1704:

This game isn’t Esports because the PvP system is a simple byproduct of their beautiful PvE world.

Not really, it is more the other way round, PvE in this game is broken, because the combat/classes were designed and balanced around PvP and their “e-sport” dream, so in PvE mechanics like condition damage are useless, stacking in a spot is often the strongest tactic which totally goes against a game that is supposed to be movement heavy, generally a huge imbance between melee &range and so on.

This game isn’t e-sports for many reasons, it is painful to watch with all the particle effects, AI, etc, the playerbase is never going to be there because as a casual PvP format is it the least enjoyable I have ever played, in fact not just ‘casual’, as anything short of queuing with a pre-made it is simply the least fun, they only balance every 6+ months which is made worse by how cheesy the game is, and so on.

Hmm.

I don’t think I agree with you on any of your reasons for why GW2 is not esports.

I don’t think it’s as convoluted as people are making it seem; There’s all this work being put into the PVE world and its lore. Saying that all that work is just to draw attention to PVP seems like putting the cart before the horse in this instance.

Even if there are changes made around pvp. It’s not like a slight damage reduction here and a mechanic change there makes PVE substantially different.

I carry a mini raven around on my thief.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Here’s some food for thought:

Once upon a time, Bioware, with their game The Old Republic, had a press conference where the devs answered questions about future content and got suggestions from their community, how did they do this? They invited the guild leader of every guild in the game to this conference and then they live streamed the entire event to the community, where the community could submit questions live and have them answered by the devs.

This, is what I guess I was trying to have come across in my initial post. This is what I would rather see Anet do instead of doling it out to a special few people.

While that is a neat concept, there’s nothing particularly wrong with how they disclose information now.

Not to mention that they don’t normally do it that way, and with minimum impact on the community when they do.. Everyone that attended Pax got information about HoT(as an example) along with the people watching the livestream before some of the youtube commentators were even allowed to talk about it.

You’d make your point better if you mentioned the above as a suggestion without at the same time stating that players who have developed, well-subscribed youtube channels are being specially treated when they are provided info (with a nondisclosure agreement) in order to get their commentary prepped for when release day hits. Giving a news reporter news to report does not make that reporter any more or less special, it just gets the news spread properly.

If I follow you correctly.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Ok, so I am most likely in the minority with this train of thought, but it kind of frustrates me that a few people in this community of ours get special treatment, let me explain.

A favored few youtubers have been getting all sorts of special treatment from Anet, like being privy to knowledge of future events that are going to happen, that they can’t talk about until it’s officially announced, but they get to know about it anyways, and then get invited to secret press conferences and given information that the rest of us can’t know about yet?

I am just as dedicated a player to this game as any other, but I don’t make Youtube videos, so I, as well as many others are not among these “privileged” few. The point I am trying to make is if you have something to say Anet, then SAY it, and don’t say it to a favored few among the community and then have them regurgitate it to us…

The smart thing to do from a marketing standpoint is provide information about key features that have already been uncovered partially by mining to the sources that comment on that info as a hobby, so that they can get the facts straight and relay it properly.

They’re getting free marketing for controlled leaks under embargo. They pay nothing, and they in turn get the news handled professionally by people who care about and have developed, publicized opinions on the state of the game.

That’s not favoritism, that’s efficiency.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Azhure.1857:

This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.

We would only use it for legitimate reasons, like when someone purposely blocks an entire boss event for the map.

And how will you ensure that player hates-his-guts understands what griefing is when someone kills a FGS train boss out of sync?

Aomine.5012:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Dungeons

PVP

Silverwastes

Buying Low, Selling High.

May I politely ask you, HOW CAN PVP MAKE YOU RICH?
Can you please elaborate?

Magic find affects track boxes and a good team can end a match in about five – seven minutes, which is about the same time it takes to speedrun dungeons.

MF affected dungeon bags.

Start laughing at them. There’s a difference between inconsiderate behavior and misplaced entitlement.

Champion Priory Arcanist

[Tl;DR] RNG is not fair or unfair. It merely gives results you want or fails to do so. You are not guaranteed a desired result no matter how well you feed the toilet.

Perceived unfairness is perceived.

I haven’t heard that at all, I play with engies often..

Don’t worry about people falling behind. If you dont join LFGs that request specific armor you do not have, and contribute a moderate amount of dps you should be fine.

Engies aren’t bad at dungeons; disregard whoever mentioned that.

Dungeons

PVP

Silverwastes

Buying Low, Selling High.

• I’m 23.
• I’m male.
• Coffee is my blood.
• College grad, majored in Information Technology but have significant Software
  Engineering experience (~ 4 years). Interested in masters.
• Currently Network Technician.
• I prefer reading for knowledge over reading for pleasure if given a choice, but both are
  equally enjoyable.
• Aspiring Entrepreneur.
• I like building, drawing, programming, writing, and composing things.
• Introvert, but very relaxed around people I know well.
• Leader by duty, not by choice.
• Optimistic by nature
• Rarely satisfied with winning at anything. Always looking for someone better than I
  am, so I can learn from them. I see people better than me at [x] as potential
  mentors, and tend to form rivalries with people around my skill level at [x].
• I like red and blue both equally.
• I’d like to make a business off of selling something I’ve created; prepping to make
  that dream a reality.
• I don’t get angry easily.
• I always have a can of wasabi peas within reach.
• I thought I could get GWAMM from GW1. Lol, I can’t be bothered.
• I appreciate the unorthodox, the innovative, and the mundane done really well.
• I’d like to get started in animation, but I’m not confident enough in my drawing
  talent yet.
• I don’t make friends as well as I attract people (assuming the latter is even above ordinary.)

.
Even if it -is- a bug, it’s decent counterplay to stealth as a mechanic; counterplay that people believe is lacking for a target lock breaker.

Just dodge.

choovanski.5462:

zapv.8051:

Saiyan.1704:

zapv.8051:

“Your not supposed to fight turret engis 1vs1”
“My build that relies almost completely on ai and traits for offense and defense takes soooo much skill”
“Other people need to L2P not turret engis”
^ This is what the people defending this sound like. If it isn’t obvious that the build is way to easy to work as well as it does then you really aren’t paying attention, or are just ignoring what’s going on around you.

Your argument is still.
“Turret Engi is easier to play than my build pls nerf.”

=/

No it isn’t. Once again you blatantly ignored what I actually wrote, read it again. I said “If it isn’t obvious that the build is way to easy to work as well as it does then you really aren’t paying attention, or are just ignoring what’s going on around you.” In other words I’m saying the build performs way to well for how easy it is. I have no problem with their being easy builds, but they shouldn’t be effective past a very low level of skill.

it’s not effective past a low level of skill? it’s the definitive noob killer build

+1.

Once you get over the fact that running right into the drop zone wont work, they become sitting ducks.

But still, Afking shouldnt be a playstyle. We have people at each other’s throats for that.

Leave them as is.

Doom is useful to help melt high sustain builds.

Energy is useful to help sustain high melt builds.

Removing both would be essentially handing wins to heavies/tank specs.

zapv.8051:

“Your not supposed to fight turret engis 1vs1”
“My build that relies almost completely on ai and traits for offense and defense takes soooo much skill”
“Other people need to L2P not turret engis”
^ This is what the people defending this sound like. If it isn’t obvious that the build is way to easy to work as well as it does then you really aren’t paying attention, or are just ignoring what’s going on around you.

I’d like to play devil’s advocate for a little and mention that not only can engies be defeated 1v1, but classes with AoE can do so easily.

Sure, it’s not skillful. you drop crate and stand.

Sure, it doesn’t enhance player skill.

If you aren’t only carrying melee weapons, you have supremacy on crate engie. The problems start when you dive right into the middle of all their weaps and expect to win.

That being said, I wouldn’t be against a nerf to punish people for what amounts to afking. That isnt because they are hard to beat at the same time, though.

zapv.8051:

If two new players start playing a game, and one picks up a turret engineer. The other will get wrecked. That person will be discouraged from playing the game because they will feel they are bad at it. Also, the one that played turret engineer never learns game mechanics because they get carried by the build they are playing and not their own skill. There is no justification for turret engineers being as strong as they are. The people that keep defending them need to stop.

The build makes bad players look way better than they are and that is bad for the game as a whole.

Why?

Personally I find it much more entertaining to shatter someone’s worldview completely by sudden difficulty spike because they -think- they are good, than fight someone who has been presented the reality that they have a lot to learn early and are now in it for the experience.

Sudden pride train wreck is one of the lights of my GW2 entertainment, don’t take that away~.

If someone wants to play a cookie cutter build that requires them to stay in one place for the duration of a match, let them. I will slake my thirst with their tears.

and just let courtyard drop.

It isnt so hidden, but I like afk /sleeping on the tree branch hanging over the ruins of the mists behind the HotM waypoint.

CureForLiving.5360:

ANet needs to add afk to the report function.

Lol.

What a community we have. So pressed that we’re willing to attempt to get someone banned from a video game for not playing the video game.

It’s decent [Read: It’s a class].

Garbage if you choose to play it that way, OP if you choose to play it that way.

Nobody’s going to say anything concrete, because frankly whenever a class has something remotely nice about it people run crying to the class discussion threads about how a class being convenient in a niche situation is unbalanced and too easy, and whenever a class has genuine deficiencies or would suffer in situations where it shouldn’t, it’s a L2P issue.

Anet has the metrics. If something is wrong with the amount of people playing and winning with certain classes, they’ll give credence to whatever is the most whined-about feature or lack and buff/nerf it for 6 months.

Eventually itll get nowhere.

Lost Elegy.9276:

Since when was it not hard countered by a decent player? Almost every profession in the game has an EASY way to get us out of refuge, from Terror to plain bullkitten knockbacks.

This. all weapon skills that push and all utilities that cause fear can negate SR, especially if the thief hasn’t traited to cause blindness upon stealth.

All classes offer something reasonably viable at the moment.

Warrior is a bit on the lower end now, Guardian has had significant buffs; but all in all each class is in a decent place.

PVP now gives PVE dungeon rewards.

There’s a New Years event on right now.

[Rush] has been fixed. [Arcing slice] is now an AOE attack.

Expansion dropping soon. There have been several new maps added to the far West of Tyria.

Scarlet Briar is dead. Living world deals with the dragon that was controlling her.

To prevent loot zergs, some champions were downgraded to elites/veterans. The Queensdale loot train no longer exists. The frostgorge one is still active.

Traits, skills, and core game mechanics are now gradually introduced with leveling to prevent new players from being confused. Some low level Karma Hearts have been reworked or removed to lessen confusion.

There’s more commander tag colors. They now cost 300g (I think)

Other than that, all the same. have fun.

For a class that needs to take damage in order to fuel its more offensive attacks, I don’t think zerker would offer the best longevity for effectiveness.

Maybe this is Anet’s attempt at turning the gradual tendency for players that know how to use active defense really well to migrate to zerker on its head. In order to maximize effectiveness, you need to pull or otherwise obtain conditions to do heavy damage.

We may be seeing a use for settler’s, soldiers, and even nomad’s gear now.

As stated above, if the chance is not 100%, you should not fool yourself into assuming you will receive what you are looking for within a given number of tries. a 1% chance of failure can proc every single time you roll on a 99% probable outcome.

Much better to salvage the items you would toilet, sell them, or keep toileting for pvp/dungeon rewarded exotics.

lordkrall.7241:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I love these little teaser events that show something’s in the works.

Thanks Anet.

Except for the fact that this is not one of them.
It is apparently a bug, as stated multiple times in this very thread.

Whoops. Sorry about that; my mistake.

I love these little teaser events that show something’s in the works.

Thanks Anet.

As stated above, if your team is winning via handicap and you volunteer to help the losing side, you are given a win whether or not you actually get transported.

That’s the fairest you can possibly get for team games like this. The only funny thing is being surprised about not winning when you get forcibly moved so it isnt a complete wipe for the underdog.

Simon.3794:

because PvP is a team game.
and team needs utility of a trickery thief.

and trickery steal is op.
26060 s/d is still the same, but people just run 20066 because trickery gives too much utilities and everything.

Yeah. in a team game granting your allies boons every 20 seconds is more useful than carrying the task of doing damage alone.

Because in pvp you are rarely 1v1, and mobility is limited to stealth, steal, one utility skill and SB.

all of those are all on the bottom half of the trait bars.

For thieves, its either “do a lot of damage and be incredibly squishy”

or

“do slightly less damage and have a good chance of getting away if backup is provided to your target”

And many thieves use 0/6/x/x/x because the 20% damage provided from executioner is plenty for DPS/ Invigorating precision.

A good portion of thieves that have steal focused playstyles run x/6/x/x/6, with mug if they feel inclined.

I hated Turret engie until I stopped playing war for a bit, swapped to thief, and learned that you can harass them very easily.

Now they have my condolences every time a necro or a cluster bomb thief catches their scent.

I’m reluctant to call anything OP now. Whatever seems insurmountable for one playstyle is likely laughably pushover for another.

And that’s okay. cant be good at everything.

I want them to drop it as is in the game.

Maybe people will stop nitpicking the existing class strengths when something completely new steamrolls them.

I think that the best test of any kind of character is being able to fight and do well on equalized footing.

You keep your appearance, but your armor/weaps cannot carry you.

That’s closer to RP than anything. Don’t the unskilled bruiser types usually lose?

Zenith.7301:

DeceiverX.8361:

Stealth itself isn’t OP.

A lot of the direct utility that comes with going into stealth is, and this is not limited to the thief class. PU mes arguably has better gains.

PU mesmer is garbage outside duels. A thief on the other hand can join a zerg and spam the ridiculously good clusterbomb+choking gas combo.

Also PU mesmers can’t kill anyone who wants to run away from them, people who die to PU mesmers are people who stay in and eat the heavy ramp up of conditions. They kill slowly and they really don’t contribute much to WvW objectives.

A thief takes out a target quick and moreover can escape from a zerg easily whereas PU mesmer’s stealth isn’t going to gain him distance against a remotely competent group of people and on top of that they’re very easy to stunlock while shadowstep is a double port with condition removal and stunbreak built all in one.

There’s a good reason why GvG’s still take a thief or two into their rosters while they don’t incorporate any PU mesmers.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Ragnarox.9601:

Akagami.9861:

This made me lol so hard, let me quess those 4 people were afk? You can’t just create a thief, put on a build go with lvl 5 equip and kill people in a rampage this is like something George R. R. Martin would write… A FANTASY

….
Every class has something OP about them, and a way to deal with thieves, you just have to know your class. Used to main a warrior, and i know how to wipe the floor with one(unless he is some crazy dude that has like 50k hours on that thief…maybe that would be kinda hard) And as a Thief i met Guardians that kept me on the run all the time, elementalists, engineers, necromancers, rangers…i got my @ss handed to me from every class individually 1 vs 1, do you know how? THEY KNEW HOW TO PLAY, they weren’t busy on the forums crying about invi being overpowerd. They learned how to counter a thief and how to defeat one.

Saddly you can be a pro thief in just 10 minutes. 50k hours? now who talks bout fantasy. And you cant win 1 vs 1 against a good skilled thief.

Sure you can.

Mediguards do it almost automatically.

Who runs mediguard in WvW? Oh that’s right, almost no one since guardians don’t have much in the way of escapes from getting zerged.

You missed the point.

Mediguards do it almost automatically, but it is still possible to fight and win against thieves in 1v1, without significant difficulty. You don’t need to run the most advantaged class against thief to have a fighting chance.

I was just giving an example.

Ragnarox.9601:

Akagami.9861:

This made me lol so hard, let me quess those 4 people were afk? You can’t just create a thief, put on a build go with lvl 5 equip and kill people in a rampage this is like something George R. R. Martin would write… A FANTASY

….
Every class has something OP about them, and a way to deal with thieves, you just have to know your class. Used to main a warrior, and i know how to wipe the floor with one(unless he is some crazy dude that has like 50k hours on that thief…maybe that would be kinda hard) And as a Thief i met Guardians that kept me on the run all the time, elementalists, engineers, necromancers, rangers…i got my @ss handed to me from every class individually 1 vs 1, do you know how? THEY KNEW HOW TO PLAY, they weren’t busy on the forums crying about invi being overpowerd. They learned how to counter a thief and how to defeat one.

Saddly you can be a pro thief in just 10 minutes. 50k hours? now who talks bout fantasy. And you cant win 1 vs 1 against a good skilled thief.

Sure you can.

Mediguards do it almost automatically.

I’d play the market instead.

Play how you want, within the guidelines of the ToS. It’s up to you if you want to acquiesce so a group of people can run in circles.

Let them play. They counterbalance the people that have garbage mouths and relatively little skill despite knowing what to do.

Don’t worry about the people that havent figured out that a good attitude is equally as important as skill.

I haven’t unlocked more bag slots on my second char. I just made mithrill boxes and use those.

Bags aren’t mandatory, the only benefit they have is slowing the rate at which you sell/destroy items.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Apparition.1576:

The only real counter to stealth is “Revealed” which has limited availability to most classes.. and the classes with access to this anti buff (Rangers) has very very limited access.

Solution… damage over times and physical damage should break stealth. Easy fix…

I’d agree to this, if the armor, stealth duration, cooldowns, and other facets were balanced to compensate for the added frailty on already-frail classes.

Draknar.5748:

Tom Gore.4035:

Those who say permastealthing thieves are not OP because they’re not doing anything have apparently never chased two of them around your keep/castle for a couple of hours.

You decide to chase two thieves around for a couple of hours and that’s overpowered….

I have a feeling that every class you cannot defeat is OP in your mind….

Also this. Thieves that have dedicated their trait lines to stealthing aren’t going to do anything to your lords in an reasonable amount of time.

They aren’t mesmers. They can’t port in friends.

Apparition.1576:

The only real counter to stealth is “Revealed” which has limited availability to most classes.. and the classes with access to this anti buff (Rangers) has very very limited access.

Solution… damage over times and physical damage should break stealth. Easy fix…

I’d agree to this, if the armor, stealth duration, cooldowns, and other facets were balanced to compensate for the added frailty on already-frail classes.

Invoker.5462:

As much as i enjoyed your narrow minded response based on theives (its ok, everyone here thinks this a thief thread). I’m going to jot a bit on a more contextual note.

Stealth- invisibility- whatever.

Lets think about what it means to be a skilled player. How do you want to be skilled? Do you want to be the type of player who has a quick wit, the twitchy nature to be able to block or counter the swing of a sword mid swing?

Or maybe you’re the type of person who looks at the bigger picture- an overwatch. You’re strategy makes up for your lack of twitch skills because you know exactly what the enemy is thinking. In fact- you’ve already set traps and know precisely what your enemy is about to do.

Lets dive a bit deeper, stay with me…

PVP combat, in its most basic skillfull form, can be found a fantastic and long lived title known as Mount&Blade Warband. In Mount and Blade you control the swing of your sword by its direction (up, down, left right) and the direction to parry (up, down, left, right)..

TingTing- thats the noise you hear when two skillfull players begin fighting. Parry after parry.. But wait, this can’t go on forever can it? Don’t worry, there’s also a mechanic to feign a swing, basically swing halfway then stop to fool the enemy. This, combined with tricky body movements, ends with a victor usually within about 40 seconds at the highest skill level. (most player’s are dead within 10 seconds, as they have not practiced their ability to parry)

This is how i see the basis of all combat in every game. Someone swings, other’s respond, and its a good old back and forth fight until the winner comes out on top.

But what happens when you can’t see the other person swinging? What if you don’t know he’s there at all? How can you possibly even begin to plan around something you don’t even know exists? Seeing is half the battle- is it not? What if the entire sword swinging mechanism was entirely invisible.. Every move, every play, gone from sight.

Welcome to stealth/invisibility in MMO’s

I could go on and on. I hope you get the point by now- and stop talking about thieves.

Your stance is noted, and your adorable assertion that my response was narrow minded because I mentioned only one class that uses it as a mechanic is also noted. I really wish the first action taken against people that present an alternative viewpoint in good nature was not a flat insult, it really cheapens the quality of the argument.

I don’t agree that mount and blade is “basic skillful pvp” judging from what I’ve seen in terms of gameplay, so it appears that we have different viewpoints on what constitutes skill.

That being said, even if seeing was half of the battle, the other half would depend on either strategy or reflex would it not? Invisibility turns what is considered conventional combat on its head, yes; but for GW2 that’s a good thing.

Interestingly, the “response” option you think is missing in response to someone who is stealthed performing “swinging” is still there. It just requires a bit of pre-combat planning to the tune of “how will I deal with x invisible class if they drop in on me?”

Not all combat needs to be cemented in good old “I attack, you block.” Responding to an emergency enemy appearance/mugging has been handled really well with the stealth mechanic, IMO.